Tanks Who Constantly Queue and Then Withdraw Trying to Get in Progress Instances

The join in progress should limit itself to only join in progress. If your going to punish people for using this system then they will simply stop using it and the moment you actually need to have someone fill in the spot youll find nobody.

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Originally Posted by Vech

The solution from 90% of the responses here would leave 99% of the population banned from the game. Seriously, tell me that you haven't queue dodged for one reason or another. I will laugh in your face. "ODIN UP!" "Dang, duty just popped. Let me cancel it!" / "Oh, duty popped but so did that Unspoiled Node that I have been waiting for!" / "Ah, the daily FATE just popped!" / "I can go microwave some food and get a drink while I wait. Shit, I just missed the queue." / "Oh, you need a tank for CT, hold on let me withdraw from this duty."
So you want SE to read every single players mind and see if they dodged for legit reasons? You want SE to waste man power and server space to keep logs of EVERY single queue dodger's dodge record? Let's be realistic here. Next tank the queues up will most likely be down for the dungeon. Stop whining because someone cost you an extra 30 seconds.

People waste other people's time everyday in real life. You really just have to suck it up and move on with your life or you are going to find yourself bitter and worked up over little things like this.

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No. No one is saying, that if you withdraw from a cue once in like a 20 minute period...or miss the window due to being afk, and have to re-cue you are wrong. It's NOT the people who go 'damn, cue came up and but my baby is crying/withdraw' or 'damn, cue I'm in a DF cue, but my FC needs me to help on hydra/withdraw' etc.

It's people who do this:

Cue
'Start from Beginning Image pops'
Withdraw
Cue
'Start from Beginning Image pops'
Withdraw
Cue
'Start from Beginning Image pops'
Withdraw
Cue
'1/3 Progress Image Pops'
Withdraw
Cue
'Start from Beginning Image pops'
Withdraw
Cue
'1/3 Progress Image Pops'
Withdraw
Cue
'1/3 Progress Image Pops'
Withdraw
Cue
'1/3 Progress Image Pops'
Withdraw
Cue
'Start from Beginning Image pops'
Withdraw
Cue
'2/3 Progress Window Pops'
Enter.

All spammed, until they get what THEY want. And if you get even 10 tanks across your group of servers doing this for any dungeon at any time.... it WILL increase cue times. Because they all are being Fed to the 'First group that needs a Tank' ...at least until one of them gives up or someone new comes along and accepts that spot. THEN, the next party cue opens up. Could be a 'in-progress group' could be a 'start' group. Either way, that SECOND group is also effected by the 10 Tanks not entering the first group the first time they cued for it, because the 2nd group has to wait for the first group to get a tank before tanks can even get assigned to them....look out even further and this means that Little Bard DD that cued for AK, and who's the '9th ranged DD in waiting for a AK cue' has to wait until the 10 tanks that all cued for AK, ALL go through this spam fest or accept their cue as is on first pop up.

And the 'well you'd be waiting anyway' argument is wrong anyway, because if SE fixed this (which they most likely will because again, the purpose of the Join in Progress option was never intended as the 'skip to the goodies' option) then they will be forced, or manipulated somehow (via a re-cue lockout timer) to change their behavior and actually, get this, play the game. Not play the people playing the game. And Tanks, and others who abuse this option WILL adjust and will still enter dungeons, but now, they will do so as the instance is available to them based on when the option to enter pops, and not based on 'if i feel like starting from the beginning.


But...the worse thing about this practice, is now with the Duty Roulette, people are abandoning their parties as soon as they enter and see where they are. As a WHM, I have replaced another healer who left at the beginning of so many dungeons, especially low level dungeons, i don't even know what to make of it. Poor level 15ish people, getting left in their very first DF experience/cue in the level 15 dungeon before they even pull one mob. What message does THAT send to new players? Especially a dungeon, that run at a normal pace only takes 20-30 minutes...I know...I've done it (the level 15 dungeon) ALOT this past month.

Lastly, people are commenting on it's effects when they are outside waiting to enter...and that is a pain. But it happens to people within instances too. Had a tank Rage Quit on a group I had just joined because their DD's were new to AK. Watched tanks come and go/withdraw etc for about 30 minutes before we finally got a tank rep willing to start at the First boss. But by that point, we had to book it. Even one mistake/death and we might have timed out. But the DD's did great (so again, don't know why first tank ditched them), and the rep tank and I were able to explain everything/dd etc to get them through in record time (at least for 2/4 first timers). But this whole 'meh...I think I'll wait for a better cue' crap IS affecting other people, and in this case, if that tank did not join when he did, that AK party would have timed out before they cleared the dungeon...not due to their lack of skill, but due to the fact that tanks would rather play the 'cue game' than actually help anyone else.


PS: I am using 'tanks' as the example mostly because they are the biggest repeat offenders. I know that Healers are also commonly guilty...DD's can be guilty as well, but as their cue times are longer, it is much harder for DDs or even healers to spam the cues reliably.

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Originally Posted by Penance007

The join in progress should limit itself to only join in progress.

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^ This would fix This v
http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/...pscf3027e3.png

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

No. No one is saying, that if you withdraw from a cue once in like a 20 minute period...or miss the window due to being afk, and have to re-cue you are wrong. It's NOT the people who go 'damn, cue came up and but my baby is crying/withdraw' or 'damn, cue I'm in a DF cue, but my FC needs me to help on hydra/withdraw' etc.

It's people who do this:

Cue
'Start from Beginning Image pops'
Withdraw
Cue
'Start from Beginning Image pops'
Withdraw
Cue
'Start from Beginning Image pops'
Withdraw
Cue
'1/3 Progress Image Pops'
Withdraw
Cue
'Start from Beginning Image pops'
Withdraw
Cue
'1/3 Progress Image Pops'
Withdraw
Cue
'1/3 Progress Image Pops'
Withdraw
Cue
'1/3 Progress Image Pops'
Withdraw
Cue
'Start from Beginning Image pops'
Withdraw
Cue
'2/3 Progress Window Pops'
Enter.

All spammed, until they get what THEY want. And if you get even 10 tanks across your group of servers doing this for any dungeon at any time.... it WILL increase cue times.

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First off, my main is WAR, and I never pull crap like that.



But the fix is simple:

>> Blind Queuing <<

Don't allow "in-progress" seeking players to know the dungeon progression before they enter the instance.

If a tank is paired with a 'Start from the beginning" Party and doesn't like it, he'll have to take the penalty when he leaves.

Here's my solution:

If someone queues for an in-progress party, then drops out instantly. Remove them from in-progress queues for the next 3 hours (or some tentative time frame, whichever seems fairer).

It's obvious if they drop an in-progress queue the first time, it is highly unlikely that they are looking to help people stuck in a dungeon, they are doing it for their own benefit. Then place them in brand new queues, revoking their right to join in-progress for the tentative time frame stated.

I don't have such a problem myself, because I pretty much forget the Join In-Progress option exists, and only use it if an FC mate or a friend specifically requests me to join their in-progress party.

While this might cause more parties to eventually abandon duty, but you really can't solve all the world's problems. You simply have to pick the bigger problem, and pacify that first. A way to probably help with the abandonment rate of in-progress parties, would be to hide the number of bosses downed for that dungeon. If someone then gets in to an in-progress party, and drops the dungeon, ban them from queueing altogether for another tentative time frame.

Basically, if you are queueing for an in-progress party, you do it to help people. If you are not sincere about helping people, you get locked out, and get clumped to the fresh dungeons queue.

Make 2 queues, if you don't like the longer queues then roll a tank or suck it up.

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Originally Posted by juniglee

...
It's obvious if they drop an in-progress queue the first time, it is highly unlikely that they are looking to help people stuck in a dungeon, they are doing it for their own benefit. Then place them in brand new queues, revoking their right to join in-progress for the tentative time frame stated.

...

Basically, if you are queueing for an in-progress party, you do it to help people. If you are not sincere about helping people, you get locked out, and get clumped to the fresh dungeons queue.

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As it's been mentioned, the solution should never be to punish players who want an in-progress party. There should be a separate queue. This is the better solution.

Players can have a multitude of reasons for exclusively joining in-progress, including desiring CT loot near the end of that dungeon. Again, the more appropriate solution in this instance is to delay all loot until the very end; Acheron should reward 4 pieces, instead of having each mini-boss reward 1. Most of the reason why people leave early is because they received their weekly loot allotment. Allowing players to join in-progress benefits all sides involved. Some people want the mythology tomes at the end. Regardless of their reasoning, everyone should have the freedom to join a party with the progress they desire.

As it is though, in lieu of an immediate fix, having to sit through withdrawn queues is the price that less-desired jobs will simply have to pay. If you want to be able to pick and choose among duty results, then you should play as a tank.

People need to complain less about the frustrations of long queues and supposed "abuse" of withdrawals, and start playing as tanks (and healers, to a lesser extent).

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Originally Posted by YuriRamona

As it is though, in lieu of an immediate fix, having to sit through withdrawn queues is the price that less-desired jobs will simply have to pay. If you want to be able to pick and choose among duty results, then you should play as a tank.

People need to complain less about the frustrations of long queues and supposed "abuse" of withdrawals, and start playing as tanks (and healers, to a lesser extent).

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It doesn't matter if you're playing a tank, because you're still dependent on 5 other people not be a douche bag

I think this is a dps issue more then anything. As a tank I never have this issue, as soon as I queue it almost instantly pops and I get in, I do not see this withdrawal thing people are talking about.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

I think this is a dps issue more then anything. As a tank I never have this issue, as soon as I queue it almost instantly pops and I get in, I do not see this withdrawal thing people are talking about.

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For 4 man dungeon content as a tank it doesn't effect me but for coil it's terrible.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

I think this is a dps issue more then anything. As a tank I never have this issue, as soon as I queue it almost instantly pops and I get in, I do not see this withdrawal thing people are talking about.

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It is primarily for CT, to a lesser extend some of the other DFs.

i have a problem with people who queue just fail on purpose.

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Originally Posted by Penance007

The join in progress should limit itself to only join in progress. If your going to punish people for using this system then they will simply stop using it and the moment you actually need to have someone fill in the spot youll find nobody.

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Again, this is not a satisfactory solution. While I completely agree there should be a separate "Join In-progress Only" button, they also need to have the current system as well for people who are willing to help out those abandoned mid-dungeons, but are also willing to just start a new dungeon, whichever comes first. And for that case, there needs to be a deserter penalty for clicking Withdraw excessively (and IMO should be followed up with bans for repeat offenders).

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Originally Posted by YuriRamona

As it's been mentioned, the solution should never be to punish players who want an in-progress party. There should be a separate queue. This is the better solution.

Players can have a multitude of reasons for exclusively joining in-progress, including desiring CT loot near the end of that dungeon. Again, the more appropriate solution in this instance is to delay all loot until the very end; Acheron should reward 4 pieces, instead of having each mini-boss reward 1. Most of the reason why people leave early is because they received their weekly loot allotment. Allowing players to join in-progress benefits all sides involved. Some people want the mythology tomes at the end. Regardless of their reasoning, everyone should have the freedom to join a party with the progress they desire.

As it is though, in lieu of an immediate fix, having to sit through withdrawn queues is the price that less-desired jobs will simply have to pay. If you want to be able to pick and choose among duty results, then you should play as a tank.

People need to complain less about the frustrations of long queues and supposed "abuse" of withdrawals, and start playing as tanks (and healers, to a lesser extent).

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I am not looking to punish each and every player attempting to join in-queue. I am looking to punish each and every player abusing the in-progress queue as a quick means to gain fast Mythology, or snipe specific bosses in CT for loot. I really don't know how much my definition differs from other people - for all I know I could be the only naive idiot in the world who thinks so, but the in-progress queue is intended for players to fill up missing roles, so that people who are left hanging in dungeons can finish their dungeons without having to start over again. I really doubt the intention of the in-progress queue is for people to snipe bosses, and gain easy rewards.

"To hell with those people stuck in queues I say, I'm not helping them unless they're at the last boss. They're not worth my time otherwise."

Acheron rewarding 4 pieces is really no different. What's stopping me from sniping until I see only Acheron remains? I can skip Bone Dragon, Thanatos, and King Behemoth in this manner, and have even less incentive to queue a full dungeon/more incentive to snipe for Acheron.

You'll also notice that the people who are doing said boss sniping are almost usually tanks. Being a tank does not give you a free admission to being a douche towards 3/7/23 other players. Being a tank does not instantly give me the right to snipe dungeons, at the expense of other players' queue times.

I just wonder why the game lets you know what you are about to enter (full dungeon or in-progress, and if the later it even tells you what's the state of progress) along with the possibility to withdraw, if they didn't intend to let you choose.

Every time I had people withdrawing after a full party is assembled, it took me less time queueing until next full party is formed, which is why I don't believe it puts you back at the end of the queue.
But, since I never ran any kind of test or whatever measurements are possible to support this theory, I can't say for sure.
If that is not the case, the game should indeed keep your party at the top of the queue whenever some members are withdrawing.

The only problem that I see with this whole topic is what Boo (and some others probably) mentionned: the fact that while the "commence" window pops up repeatedly, you cannot engage in any other activity.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

They really need to start banning them. I main a PLD and it sickens me when this crap happens if I'm on another job. It's incredibly rude and needs to be punished.

My suggestion is this: Allow two withdraws from queue. On the third strike, the person withdrawing takes a 30 minute penalty. It then also flags the system that said person has received the withdrawing penalty. Once that person receives 3 flags, they are then banned for a shortish period of time (say 3 days). Then it will progressively get longer.

Keep in mind, I'm talking about withdrawing from the queue, not once you've entered a dungeon (which there's already a penalty for). If you've ever had it happen where your queue pops over and over for short periods, it's a Tank constantly queuing and withdrawing trying to get an in-progress dungeon so they can more quickly get their Myth tokens.

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It happened to me a couple of times, not for very long (like 2 minutes). Group formed, then one or several members withdraw.
It also happened to me a couple of times to queue as tank, finding a party, then every time I click on "accept" for some reason (bug?) DF rejects me (exactly as if I had withdrawn instead of accepted).

Therefore am firmly against such a proposal.

Add an "in-progress only" option could be a good idea though.
And again, if it's not already the case, a party formed that has members withdrawing, should be kept at the top of the queue, not put back at the end.
Personnally, I wouldn't be opposed to a "blind queueing" either, since it's pretty much how I'm already using the DF. Though I can't speak for the rest of the players.

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Originally Posted by juniglee

I am not looking to punish each and every player attempting to join in-queue. I am looking to punish each and every player abusing the in-progress queue as a quick means to gain fast Mythology, or snipe specific bosses in CT for loot. I really don't know how much my definition differs from other people - for all I know I could be the only naive idiot in the world who thinks so, but the in-progress queue is intended for players to fill up missing roles, so that people who are left hanging in dungeons can finish their dungeons without having to start over again. I really doubt the intention of the in-progress queue is for people to snipe bosses, and gain easy rewards.

"To hell with those people stuck in queues I say, I'm not helping them unless they're at the last boss. They're not worth my time otherwise."

Acheron rewarding 4 pieces is really no different. What's stopping me from sniping until I see only Acheron remains? I can skip Bone Dragon, Thanatos, and King Behemoth in this manner, and have even less incentive to queue a full dungeon/more incentive to snipe for Acheron.

You'll also notice that the people who are doing said boss sniping are almost usually tanks. Being a tank does not give you a free admission to being a douche towards 3/7/23 other players. Being a tank does not instantly give me the right to snipe dungeons, at the expense of other players' queue times.

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Exactly. I really hate how some of the people in this thread conveniently "don't read" and leave out important aspects of the proposed ideas and instead misrepresent them when they argue. As some others have mentioned, it appears that most of the people arguing against a penalty for abusers are the very same ones that are abusing the system.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

But the fix is simple:

>> Blind Queuing <<

Don't allow "in-progress" seeking players to know the dungeon progression before they enter the instance.

If a tank is paired with a 'Start from the beginning" Party and doesn't like it, he'll have to take the penalty when he leaves.

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Pretty much this. I've no idea why there's 28 pages of bizarre suggestions for progressive penalties and seperate queues when this is the easiest possible solution.

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Originally Posted by Traek

The other method of *blind entering* is not a good one *in my opinion*. I never liked this in WoW, and you can often times skip a boss you might have either wanted loot or philo tomes from. This also can happen when queuing as a full group keep in mind, and could screw a lot of people (including DD/heals) out of gear.
.

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That's just a risk you take for ticking the in progress box. If you want an earlier drop in the dungeon, just don't tick it.

For me, I really want to play DPS but somehow DPS takes 1 hour, and PLD takes 5 minutes.

I love to join Party in Progress, because as mentioned, you get to skip parts of the dungeon. But ... If a standard dungeon pops, I see no issue to go in. Actually more like ethics and integrity.

Sadly in this world, especially in game, ethics and integrity can lapse. So people that do this, in game, what more will they be in real life. Oh they will cover it better, but seriously... will act similar or the same.

Anyways, cannot be helped, with the way the game is setup and the world as it is. Just have to live with it. Roll a tank :) and do not do it to others.

Only thing developers can do, it is if you cancel party join 3 times within xx minutes, you cannot join for xx minutes. Actually will help alot.

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Originally Posted by Davionx

Make 2 queues, if you don't like the longer queues then roll a tank or suck it up.

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Originally Posted by YuriRamona

As it's been mentioned, the solution should never be to punish players who want an in-progress party. There should be a separate queue. This is the better solution.

Players can have a multitude of reasons for exclusively joining in-progress, including desiring CT loot near the end of that dungeon. Again, the more appropriate solution in this instance is to delay all loot until the very end; Acheron should reward 4 pieces, instead of having each mini-boss reward 1. Most of the reason why people leave early is because they received their weekly loot allotment. Allowing players to join in-progress benefits all sides involved. Some people want the mythology tomes at the end. Regardless of their reasoning, everyone should have the freedom to join a party with the progress they desire.

As it is though, in lieu of an immediate fix, having to sit through withdrawn queues is the price that less-desired jobs will simply have to pay. If you want to be able to pick and choose among duty results, then you should play as a tank.

People need to complain less about the frustrations of long queues and supposed "abuse" of withdrawals, and start playing as tanks (and healers, to a lesser extent).

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No, there should NOT be 2 cues.

Look again, and I don't know how to make this more clear:

Join in Progress IS NOT, a speed to the end/get to skip a boss or 2 card. It was NEVER intended to used for such purposes or intended to be a 'skip' button. It was a 'sure, I don't mind helping' button. It was actually intended to help out groups who got stuck or abandoned. Therefore, there should NOT be 2 cues. Because the reality is you should always plan on starting from the beginning of any Duty you join. That is how each dungeon was intended to be played. So no, there should not be 2 cues because the whole point of 'Join In Progress', which is to HELP others, is lost then.

And putting all the 'loot' at the end, solves nothing. Then people will spam until they see 2/3 or 3/4 ...because after all, loot is only at the end right?

At that point, if they give 2 cues, they might as well allow people to select which point they wish to start from:

Beginning:
After 1st Boss:
After 2nd Boss:
etc...

Because THAT is how the 'withdraw' players are treating it anyway...so might as well give everyone the option. This way you could even form your own party to spam the boss of your desires for faster loot, leave and do it again. That's what people want right?

Heck, lets go further...just give us the option to once a week buy a cap of myth tomes or that one drop in CT you wanted with real life gil. Because again, time is too precious to actually rely on clearing a dungeon from beginning to end...let alone farm the dungeon. Just let me buy what I want and look cool and be done with it....

/sarcasm off

If anything, they should just get rid of your right as a player to select where you get placed if using DF and randomly assign everyone to a group, regardless of whether it is in progress or starting fresh, and NOT let you see where you are (beg/middle/end) until you actually enter...sorta like how Dungeon Roulette only shows you what Duty you rolled once you enter and the CS plays. This way, by default those who are trying to 'farm for a better start' would HAVE to take the 30 minute 'abandon' penalty and this behavior would mostly stop.

They need to separate the in progress queue in order to fix the problem. Any other suggestion is ignorant and childish and spawned out of pure entitlement. That 3 day ban? Ha! What a joke. The emotions of a child crying when they don't get their way.

News flash- That 3 day ban means that nobody gets the tank that wanted to queue, so you are hurting other players experience in order to cater to your own. Pathetic OP.

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

At that point, if they give 2 cues, they might as well allow people to select which point they wish to start from:

Beginning:
After 1st Boss:
After 2nd Boss:
etc...

Because THAT is how the 'withdraw' players are treating it anyway...so might as well give everyone the option. This way you could even form your own party to spam the boss of your desires for faster loot, leave and do it again. That's what people want right?

Heck, lets go further...just give us the option to once a week buy a cap of myth tomes or that one drop in CT you wanted with real life gil. Because again, time is too precious to actually rely on clearing a dungeon from beginning to end...let alone farm the dungeon. Just let me buy what I want and look cool and be done with it....

/sarcasm off

If anything, they should just get rid of your right as a player to select where you get placed if using DF and randomly assign everyone to a group, regardless of whether it is in progress or starting fresh, and NOT let you see where you are (beg/middle/end) until you actually enter...sorta like how Dungeon Roulette only shows you what Duty you rolled once you enter and the CS plays. This way, by default those who are trying to 'farm for a better start' would HAVE to take the 30 minute 'abandon' penalty and this behavior would mostly stop.

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I can see your point about why a seperate queue might not be a good thing.
But what you're describing.. It's pretty much already the case.

As you said, Duty Roulette doesn't let you "choose" your destination, since it's not showing you what you're about to enter.
Normal DF does show you what you're about to enter, and gives you the possibility of withdrawing. TO me, that means SE doesn't mind players doing it.

Not that I would be opposed to change, as I mentionned earlier, "blind queue" is already pretty much what I'm doing.

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Originally Posted by Tridus1x

They need to separate the in progress queue in order to fix the problem. Any other suggestion is ignorant and childish and spawned out of pure entitlement. That 3 day ban? Ha! What a joke. The emotions of a child crying when they don't get their way.

News flash- That 3 day ban means that nobody gets the tank that wanted to queue, so you are hurting other players experience in order to cater to your own. Pathetic OP.

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Congratulations on your inability to read.

If you had actually read, you would know that I have no problem with having a separate "Join In-Progress Dungeon Only" option, but we also need to keep the current system for those that both are willing to start a new dungeon or help others who have been abandoned, whichever comes first.

And for that purpose, I have suggested the 30 minute deserter penalty if you press the withdraw button three times consecutively or let the timer run three times consecutively. The suggestion for ban is only for REPEAT OFFENDERS who receive the deserter penalty on three separate occasions.

Are people really that bad at this game that they need to skip bosses for easier tomes? It's so incredibly lazy, and not particularly effective.

It's faster to just run roulette and smash something like Haukke Manor (which seems to come up a lot), rather than spamming the DF for however long until you get what you want, and screw everyone else over.

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Originally Posted by blowfin

Are people really that bad at this game that they need to skip bosses for easier tomes? It's so incredibly lazy, and not particularly effective.

It's faster to just run roulette and smash something like Haukke Manor (which seems to come up a lot), rather than spamming the DF for however long until you get what you want, and screw everyone else over.

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i wouldnt say ineffective, i made a lot of gil before prior to 2.1 that way, and have helped a tonne of players who were stuck. Right now i really got no reason to run any dungeons, so time to time i check out the in progress and help a group out waiting for a healer.

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Originally Posted by Davionx

Make 2 queues, if you don't like the longer queues then roll a tank or suck it up.

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I run CT as tank, usually with FC and get the constant spam of withdraws before one actually pops. Anything upto 20-30 times I've seen it happen.

So whats your great solution there?

Best solution, and imo easiest to implement is to not show the progress of the dungeon whatsoever.

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Right now i really got no reason to run any dungeons, so time to time i check out the in progress and help a group out waiting for a healer.

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Yeah and that use case isn't malicious unless you're spamming withdraw to make sure you get an in progress dungeon. Are you doing that? Then it doesn't really fit into the category of "helping" so much.

I get withdraws from all 3 roles when I queue for CT. I don't get what the deal is with hating on tanks in the OP.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

I run CT as tank, usually with FC and get the constant spam of withdraws before one actually pops. Anything upto 20-30 times I've seen it happen.

So whats your great solution there?

Best solution, and imo easiest to implement is to not show the progress of the dungeon whatsoever.

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How bout 2 queues

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Originally Posted by blowfin

Are people really that bad at this game that they need to skip bosses for easier tomes? It's so incredibly lazy, and not particularly effective.

It's faster to just run roulette and smash something like Haukke Manor (which seems to come up a lot), rather than spamming the DF for however long until you get what you want, and screw everyone else over.

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People simply choose the path of least resistance. Sniping dungeons for the last boss seems like the best way of dealing with potential fails in parties. For example, if you were sniping Copperbell HM, most people probably would not want to deal with teams that can't deal with the bombs in the first boss, so they'd rather take their chances, and try and find a party which has cleared the first 2 bosses, but somehow broke up before the third boss. Or it could be a premade party, for whatever reason, deciding to vote kick (against ToS) their pug tank, and bring in a friend who needs fast tomes.

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Originally Posted by wildgalax

i wouldnt say ineffective, i made a lot of gil before prior to 2.1 that way, and have helped a tonne of players who were stuck. Right now i really got no reason to run any dungeons, so time to time i check out the in progress and help a group out waiting for a healer.

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Except if you are helping people without anything for your own personal gain, effectiveness is a moot point. These are people sniping bosses in dungeon, so that all they have to do is go up to the last boss, down it, get their tomes/weekly CT loot, and get out.

I've occasionally gotten the repeating queue popup due to players withdrawing quickly... but I've yet to see it take more than maybe a minute or so to finally enter, even if it takes 10-15 pops to get a full group. Are people actually being seriously inconvenienced by this, like taking 5 minutes or longer to enter? Hearing the chime get's annoying if it pops repeatedly yeah, but to be honest, there are plenty of other things I'd rather the dev's work on. I typically queue as healer so I usually switch to a different job to xp or something while waiting for a queue to pop, so maybe I'm just less sensitive to how long it takes?

Personally I consider people using pvp gear to circumvent gear requirements and expecting to be carried to gear a bigger issue to be addressed. Can we get the item level requirement system to be a bit smarter?

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Originally Posted by Vanidin

I typically queue as healer so I usually switch to a different job to xp or something while waiting for a queue to pop, so maybe I'm just less sensitive to how long it takes?

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Yeah for DPS classes there's the very real chance of being shunted back to what seems like the start of the queue when the group fails to enter properly.

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Originally Posted by blowfin

Yeah for DPS classes there's the very real chance of being shunted back to what seems like the start of the queue when the group fails to enter properly.

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Especially when premade groups queue for their last or last few members. Then you are kicked off.

LOOK YOU ARE CLEARLY NOT SEEING THE ISSUE HERE !

If I que for a game in progress I want a game in progress not one that isn't .

So maybe they need to make it so when you que for game in progress you actually get one . Problem solved .

Tanks dropping queue can be horrible. Just the other day, was queuing with with a group, and well, the following two pictures are from the 2nd time we had to go through the spam before we could get in.

They really should put a 1-5 minute cooldown on duty finder if you withdraw. The join in progress is not intended to be a way to skip bosses to try to get to the last boss faster, and fishing for groups in progress is abuse of the system.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/28/hhyo.png

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800...0/854/563b.png

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Originally Posted by Tridus1x

*removed childish insults*

Also for the second time, only separation of queue's for this system would be acceptable. Adding a separate queue along with what we currently have will spread things out far too much, thus making queue times longer. Oh wait you haven't thought that far ahead it seems.

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So when you don't comprehend what you read and can't understand a conversation, you just mimic and then repeat what you said previously and then insult the other poster because you think it somehow makes you correct? :rolleyes:

In any case, I'll try to explain in simple terms so you can understand:

The suggestion is to give a Deserter Penalty (that is the 30 minute lockout in which you can't join the Duty Finder queue) to people who withdraw from queues or let the timer run out three times consecutively. I only suggested the ban for repeat offenders (and it's a separate issue from the deserter penalty), because that's what MMO companies do to people who repeatedly break rules and abuse other players... they ban them. If you're insulting me and the suggestion because you're afraid of being banned because you abuse others by constantly withdrawing, that's just sad and only proves that a ban would be an effective disincentive.

And once again, I already explained why separating the queues completely isn't an acceptable solution. Certainly they should have a separate "In-Progress Only" option, but they need the current one as well. And no, you are wrong about it negatively affecting queue times. All it would do is eliminate the people who are already wasting other people's time by constantly Withdrawing from queue until they get an In-Progress one. So it wouldn't increase queue times at all, it would actually shorten them because all that time wasted accepting and withdrawing over and over again wouldn't happen. And losing those people from the "regular" queue wouldn't matter because they never join anyway. Might want to be careful about accusing others of not thinking things through... makes for quite amusing irony.

It is not always the tank that withdraws and they should separate the in-progress and the not in progress. Now a ban for constant withdraws is never going to happen, because it is simply unreasonable and in no way violates anything in the ToS. Perhaps a withdraw should give a 5 min wait penalty, but again unreasonable because most of the time a DPS falls asleep waiting for a queue because their wait timer is insane, so cannot really do that. Also, would like to point out that maybe say idk someone may have their tank withdraw while in the dungeon. So then they ask someone in FC/LS to try to jump into their run so they can finish, is it right to go after a player who is trying to help someone? The system itself is flawed, cannot take it out and really cannot fix it. Maybe a true solution to this issue would be to show a list of all the duties currently in progress and have someone click into it would help, but in all honesty having something like that would probably crash the game. Maybe they should have it so you can invite players from FC/LS/FL while in a dungeon.

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Originally Posted by WiseWolfHolo

It is not always the tank that withdraws and they should separate the in-progress and the not in progress. Now a ban for constant withdraws is never going to happen, because it is simply unreasonable and in no way violates anything in the ToS. Perhaps a withdraw should give a 5 min wait penalty, but again unreasonable because most of the time a DPS falls asleep waiting for a queue because their wait timer is insane, so cannot really do that. Also, would like to point out that maybe say idk someone may have their tank withdraw while in the dungeon. So then they ask someone in FC/LS to try to jump into their run so they can finish, is it right to go after a player who is trying to help someone? The system itself is flawed, cannot take it out and really cannot fix it. Maybe a true solution to this issue would be to show a list of all the duties currently in progress and have someone click into it would help, but in all honesty having something like that would probably crash the game. Maybe they should have it so you can invite players from FC/LS/FL while in a dungeon.

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A true solution for such a problem does not exist.

Separate queues:
- Pros: People can choose which queue they want to queue for. This removes the chance that people sniping for specific dungeon bosses will not affect those in the fresh progress queue.
- Cons: There is a high chance people will only queue for in-progress ONLY. After all, why would anyone ever queue for a fresh dungeon run, when sniping and getting the last boss is a quick and easy 5 minutes Mythology/CT loot. Those who queue for fresh progress might get stuck with longer waiting times.

Ability to invite FC/LS members from dungeons:
- Pros: An easier way of getting people to fill up ranks to continue the dungeon run.
- Cons: There is the possibility that I can vote kick a pug from the group, to replace with a friend who wants in, either for loot or Mythology tomestones, or simply because they're suddenly available to join their friends. These forums have already shown that we are not above vote kicking people for personal reasons not listed in the vote kick reason options itself.

Lock-out people from joining in-progress if they are withdrawing too many times:
- Pros: Reduces the rate of boss sniping. More people will queue for fresh dungeons.
- Cons: Higher duty abandonment rates. Can be rather frustrating if you spent 60 minutes in a dungeon, and you're only up to a certain boss, but not far enough in the dungeon, for people to want to "snipe and get in to help anyway".

Showing dungeon runs in progress and allowing people to pick which dungeon to join:
- Pros: Quick and easy...if you are sniping to begin with.
- Cons: Good luck to all the fresh progress parties, or those stuck at the first boss. I expect abandonment rates to be higher as well, as when someone leaves, the chances of someone joining them in that particular point of progress is extremely low, unless they are at the last boss.

Hiding dungeon progress:
- Pros: Since you don't know what you get into, you're really just blind queueing. Both queues will have fair game onto which individual joins which instance.
- Cons: If I don't like it, I leave. Not only does this place a 30 minute penalty on the individual who left, which reduces the pool of available players (significantly tanks, since they're always in demand), this means that over time, more parties will be stuck. Queue times might also end up being longer. Not a real big impact con, but this option is definitely one of the better suggestions I've seen.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, you have to decide which problem is the greater one, and seek to curb that, while minimizing the impact such a solution will have on the problems on the opposite end. No true solution exists, there will be a positive impact, and a negative impact. We simply have to pick the option that generates the biggest positive impact, while minimizing the negative impacts.

One of the ways this issue can be addressed is if there were more people playing tanks. Tanks have the biggest power when it comes to dungeon queues, because there's always going to be a shortage of tanks. I really don't know how you can fix this tank shortage problem however, since playing a tank (or not) is really down to personal preference. If there were a bigger balance for all jobs in terms of number of players, dungeon queues would be equally fast for all classes, alas this is not the case as we can see.

Why don't you just do what other games do?

DON'T TELL PEOPLE IF THE INSTANCE IS IN PROGRESS OR NOT.

If you check the mark to "allow in-progress groups" in every single game I've ever played, the game does not effin' tell you where the group is. You just zone in, and then the people in the group tell you where they are.

Don't separate the queues, because that'll just make queue times terrible for everyone.

I logged out last night after giving up trying to get into a queue for CT and getting queue/withdraw notices over 30+ times. Today, I log in and try to do Duty Roulette: High level... same thing, I went up to 16 withdraw notices before I logged out. I am now contemplating quitting entirely until this kind of thing changes. This issue in the duty finder, coupled with poor player attitudes, disrespect and morale has worn down my patience and will to play this game.

There will probably be several replies to my post flaming me, or telling me to quit crying about it, and that is fine by me, I wont be around to read it, I just wanted to post my remarks in hopes that both the following happen: SE changes DF queue processes for those players still around, and also I hope player morale/etiquette improves. I have my doubts on the latter.

Good luck to the rest of you, may your patience and willpower be stronger than mine.

Because duplicate threads are popping up on the subject and this has the most pages, thought I should bring it to the top.