About damage essences in Delubrum/Dalriada

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

I don't care about "what if everyone thought like you?" I can't control how other people think so why would I base any decision I make on that? It's pointless.

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You know what you can control? How you think. You make a conscious choice to either be a lazy self-centered leech, or a useful member of the group who contributes their best.

I did about 70 DR runs in DF before I discovered PF and I took double dps actions and the good Essences every run. Did it benefit me? Not that much. But even if I only shaved 1 minute off the run, that's 1 minute each for 23 other people, multiplied by 70 runs. So I contributed 26 hours worth of saved time split among the people I ran with. For me, that's worth every bit of gil or time spent.

It's only because of players with similar mindset that your runs don't take over an hour every time. You might also say you can't control others thoughts, but who knows if you set an example to others or not. If people see one player doing triple their damage, ripping agro and contributing they might want to do the same or feel encouraged to pop a good essence too. If they see a group of no-essence players, they'll think "what's the point?" and not bother, or even drop party. I've dropped from a few 0-essence DF's before. You can never bring about positive change by becoming the problem.

In the defense of the OP, at least in DR and Dal it is much harder to hit a fail condition. Castrum is still plagued with groups that lack the firepower to take down the top and bottom properly, because you can't just go by the number of players. It depends on how those players are equipped and buffed. A lot of people getting their ranks up do not have the damage output even on DPS.

In Bazja, the absolute bare minimum is to always bring skirmisher or martialist to a run. That isn't even a question, that is required at this point.

I usually go in with either Rend Armor on a melee, Elder + Cure IV on a caster, or Dervish on a ranged DPS since I assume those make the biggest impact on overall DPS.

They keep saying essence only affecting their output while ignoring example of using Elder + Cure IV which affect 7 other people in your party with AOE bravery. Cure IV can be used accross several DRs, and all that time saved combined already more than make up for the time required to farm for Elder and Cure IV fragments, which make this very efficient.
Funny how they keep insisting on being efficient but ignore this example.

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

Thanks for finally admitting that you just want to leach off of other peoples work without putting in the effort to contribute anything meaningful yourself. :D

Though, had you said you wanted to leech from the beginning, instead of straw-manning and pulling numbers out of Thin Air (what an AMAZING white mage you make!) people wouldn’t be giving you the time of day and I’m quite sure that wouldn’t be what you want. Because if you really were arguing that it’s a waste of time, the hours spent on these forums could’ve been spent farming frags to get essences. It’s not a waste of time - you just want to leech. Cool!

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Never said I want to leech off of others, though. I don't care if the other people in DF use essences or not, all I'm saying is that I'm not going to use them because farming them is a waste of my time.

If you want to use essences in DF DR that's 100% your decision. No one asked you to, though, so no one's there to leech off of you.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

You know what you can control? How you think. You make a conscious choice to either be a lazy self-centered leech, or a useful member of the group who contributes their best.

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Sure, and if you had all just taken this position from the beginning I likely wouldn't have even bothered arguing with you. You're not wrong, my approach is entirely self-serving and you're all free to feel however you want about that. Doesn't bother me at all.

Trying to apply cumulative gains logic to DF to tell me farming for DF is the most efficient thing to do is just ridiculous, though. I get cumulative gains whether I farm or not, so farming is never more efficient.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Never said I want to leech off of others, though. I don't care if the other people in DF use essences or not, all I'm saying is that I'm not going to use them because farming them is a waste of my time

If you want to use essences in DF DR that's 100% your decision. No one asked you to, though, so no one's there to leech off of you.

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You benefiting off of the collective gains of others hard work IS leeching. Justify it however you want, it’s leeching. You’re leeching.

If even one person uses an essence in the run, the others in the run are leeching off of that one person who is choosing to put in extra work to make the run go slightly faster. If you’re having 45 min runs, you’re leeching off of the works of others. If you don’t want to benefit off of others work and effort, then go and join groups that don’t use essences, so you can freely enjoy your hours long grind for one weapon.

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

You benefiting off of the collective gains of others hard work IS leeching. Justify it however you want, it’s leeching. You’re leeching.

If even one person uses an essence in the run, the others in the run are leeching off of that one person who is choosing to put in extra work to make the run go slightly faster. If you’re having 45 min runs, you’re leeching off of the works of others. If you don’t want to benefit off of others work and effort, then go and join groups that don’t use essences, so you can freely enjoy your hours long grind for one weapon.

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By that logic you're leeching off of everyone who shows up with better essence/lost action setups than you have. Everyone who isn't in the number 1 DPS spot is a leech.

Leeching isn't simply benefitting from someone who's generating more output than you are. Leeching is expecting everyone to generate more output than you so you can benefit, and I don't expect that from anyone.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

By that logic you're leeching off of everyone who shows up with better essence/lost action setups than you have. Everyone who isn't in the number 1 DPS spot is a leech.

Leeching isn't simply benefitting from someone who's generating more output than you are. Leeching is expecting everyone to generate more output than you so you can benefit, and I don't expect that from anyone.

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Nah, because if everyone shows up with an essence that means they showed up planning to contribute as much as they reasonably can.

You showing up with no essences equates to you leeching off of the work of others. And you even admitted that you don’t care what your contribution is because you’ll benefit off of the COLLECTIVE GAINS of others work.

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

Nah, because if everyone shows up with an essence that means they showed up planning to contribute as much as they reasonably can.

You showing up with no essences equates to you leeching off of the work of others. And you even admitted that you don’t care what your contribution is because you’ll benefit off of the COLLECTIVE GAINS of others work.

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Nah, you could definitely contribute more by bringing better essences and lost actions, so why don't you? Other people put in the effort to bring as much as they possibly could, so what's your excuse?

I don't care about my contributions enough to farm, and I also don't expect anyone else to farm either. I'm just saying farming is less efficient because I'll benefit from collective gains even if I don't use an essence, which is true.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

I'm just saying farming is less efficient because I'll benefit from collective gains even if I don't use an essence, which is true.

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No it's not true. People already gave examples how farming can be more efficient but you just ignore them.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Nah, you could definitely contribute more by bringing better essences and lost actions, so why don't you? Other people put in the effort to bring as much as they possibly could, so what's your excuse?

I don't care about my contributions enough to farm, and I also don't expect anyone else to farm either. I'm just saying farming is less efficient because I'll benefit from collective gains even if I don't use an essence, which is true.

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You'll benefit from others hard work, you mean. Anyways, you're a leech, just admit you don't care about leeching and moveth oneth. And you're right, in that you could definitely contribute more by bringing in better essences, but what you're arguing is the same as going into a Savage fight with no food or potions (They're consumables! You can go without anyways, the game doesn't tell you NOT to~! You'll benefit off of the work of others anywayyyys!) Versus someone going into the fight with food and potions that, while it might not be the best, is definitely better than going in without - and shows that they value the time of themselves and others. Which isn't leeching.

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Originally Posted by Fland

No it's not true. People already gave examples how farming can be more efficient but you just ignore them.

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What examples? I've seen some people say combining certain essences and lost actions can be even more of a boost, but I haven't seen any Math indicating it's more efficient to farm all of that stuff. How much time does 1 person using these actually save? How long does it take to farm all of the different components? Provide some approximate figures.

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

You'll benefit from others hard work, you mean. Anyways, you're a leech, just admit you don't care about leeching and moveth oneth. And you're right, in that you could definitely contribute more by bringing in better essences, but what you're arguing is the same as going into a Savage fight with no food or potions (They're consumables! You can go without anyways, the game doesn't tell you NOT to~! You'll benefit off of the work of others anywayyyys!) Versus someone going into the fight with food and potions that, while it might not be the best, is definitely better than going in without - and shows that they value the time of themselves and others. Which isn't leeching.

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You're just creating your own arbitrary line specifically so you can call me a leech. I get it, my position upsets you so you're just flailing and becoming irrational. People who don't like what I'm saying throwing little tantrums has basically been the tone of this entire thread.

It is kind of funny that by your own definition of a leech you technically are one, though. You're benefitting from the extra efforts of people who worked harder than you. How do you live with yourself? ;)

"im not a leech! im not a leech!!", he continues to insist as he slowly shrinks and transforms into a corn cob

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Originally Posted by Rinhi

"im not a leech! im not a leech!!", he continues to insist as he slowly shrinks and transforms into a corn cob

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I do like how you all obediently pop essences to benefit me in DR without me even asking. You're all such sweet, servile little lambs. ;)

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

What examples? I've seen some people say combining certain essences and lost actions can be even more of a boost, but I haven't seen any Math indicating it's more efficient to farm all of that stuff. How much time does 1 person using these actually save? How long does it take to farm all of the different components? Provide some approximate figures.

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You using Elder will give you 50% damage increase, saving 1 minute from the run. Then you use Cure IV which will give AOE bravery to you and your party member. With bravery, everyone in your party including yourself save 12 seconds each from the run for a combined total of 96 seconds. With the initial 1 minute from the essence itself, you have saved a total of 2 minutes and 36 seconds from the run by yourself.
Farming cluster for 10 minutes for example can give you 10-20, so each fragment worth farming for around 30 seconds to one minute. Cure IV fragment can be obtained by killing level 1 bird which just take several seconds to kill.
See now? Elder + Cure IV is worth a minute of farm while saving you 2 minutes 36 seconds just by your contribution. Additionally, this is assuming using one fragment of Cure IV each run, but the reality is you can use Cure IV from one fragment for several DR runs.

This is just one example, there are others like Rend Armor which benefit the entire 24 people, or Seraph Strike which is persistent skill that you can use for the entirety of a relic run, saving even more time significantly all from one fragment worth 30 seconds to 1 minute of farm.

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Originally Posted by Rinhi

"im not a leech! im not a leech!!", he continues to insist as he slowly shrinks and transforms into a corn cob

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PFFT! I'm 100% sure the mans knows he's leeching and just doesn't want to own up to it. Which sucks, I feel like I'd respect the guy more if he did. Like, that's pretty much been my one thing - own up to you and your actions!

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

What examples? I've seen some people say combining certain essences and lost actions can be even more of a boost,

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Some food for thought, Aetherweave give an 80% damage buff to healer. Weakness is a 25% dmg down, and brink of death is 50% down. So ... if you have no essence and even assume you have zero death, you still gonna do less than someone who tank the floor enough to have permanent weakness in the entire run.

Aetherweave come from fragment of skill which is going for (hold your breath!!) a whooping ... (HOLD YOUR BREATH) ... NINE .... hundred gil on my server. And why is it so cheap? Take a guess of how easy it is to farm them.

Oh, and throw Seraph strike in as a bonus. You only need one ever in your life because it has INFINITE use. So, by barely spending next zero effort, you can already be twice the player a leech will be. Leave the thrice and quadruple to tried hard like us, but it's not hard to be a bit more useful.

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but I haven't seen any Math indicating it's more efficient to farm all of that stuff.

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How about zero? I don't even know why peopel keep saying they need to farm for this and that tbh. Cluster I can understand if people want mount or haircut but ...frag? Nah. I have never farm for cluster, fragment. Up until last week I only run Dal/Cas once a week for the daily, maybe twice at maximum. And I'm basically swimming up to my eyeball in essence here. I just check and I have like 15 Aetherweave, 20 Martilist, 7 prophane, 11 watchers among gazillion other essences.

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Originally Posted by Fland

You using Elder will give you 50% damage increase, saving 1 minute from the run. Then you use Cure IV which will give AOE bravery to you and your party member. With bravery, everyone in your party including yourself save 12 seconds each from the run for a combined total of 96 seconds. With the initial 1 minute from the essence itself, you have saved a total of 2 minutes and 36 seconds from the run by yourself.
Farming cluster for 10 minutes for example can give you 10-20, so each fragment worth farming for around 30 seconds to one minute. Cure IV fragment can be obtained by killing level 1 bird which just take several seconds to kill.
See now? Elder + Cure IV is worth a minute of farm while saving you 2 minutes 36 seconds just by your contribution. Additionally, this is assuming using one fragment of Cure IV each run, but the reality is you can use Cure IV from one fragment for several DR runs.

This is just one example, there are others like Rend Armor which benefit the entire 24 people, or Seraph Strike which is persistent skill that you can use for the entirety of a relic run, all from one fragment worth 30 seconds to 1 minute of farm.

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I'm guessing these are essences from the second half of Bozja. People at the DR phase of their relic likely aren't there yet, aren't appropriate level and won't have access to this. Correct me if I'm wrong.

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

PFFT! I'm 100% sure the mans knows he's leeching and just doesn't want to own up to it. Which sucks, I feel like I'd respect the guy more if he did. Like, that's pretty much been my one thing - own up to you and your actions!

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Yeah...I don't even care enough that the guy's not using essences and stuff. I think he should, but I'm not going to get up in arms over it either. The same could be said for any random person I'd encounter running DR. But regardless, that's not the point of this for me. If he would have said "I don't feel like farming because I don't like it" and nothing more, that would have more straight forward than arguing in circles trying to justify something with fake math and poor logic. I still wouldn't have agreed with his stance, but I'd have respected it a little more since it'd be an honest one. Just be real with us, Goji, and this can finally come to an end.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

By that logic you're leeching off of everyone who shows up with better essence/lost action setups than you have. Everyone who isn't in the number 1 DPS spot is a leech.

Leeching isn't simply benefitting from someone who's generating more output than you are. Leeching is expecting everyone to generate more output than you so you can benefit, and I don't expect that from anyone.

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Ah, I see you have another misconception about what is leeching. It's not simply the output my dude.

I have seen new players in the 10ish who are new to the run. They die a lot, but I don't mind them, everyone was a scrub once. Mad respect when I see even those players still come in with an essence. Like I said above, even if they die a lot, they probably gonna do more than people like you anyway. But lvl25 with no essence, yes, they are leech, because they had made a conscious choice to leeching off others. Again it's a mentality thing. I admit having a hard time gauging your true thought tbh, on one hand you're pimping yourself up as a shameless leech and even say it with pride as if you're so smart. Yet, despite keeping saying you don't care, you seem to be trying pretty damn hard (harder than getting fragment at least) to defend yourself when people calling you a leech ... so maybe that label actually bother you more than you actually care to admit? Man up man, lieing to other is one thing, but lieing to yourself is just ... sad.

As I said in an earlier post, players like me who always come prepared (while literally spending zero effort to be prepared) are able to capitalize when we get a good group (stuffs like Rend/Dervis is basically steroid in a high performance group) or at least mitigation the effect of a bad group. Players with mentality like you will turn good group into missed opportunity, and make bad groups even worse. All the justification you have been given in your defense is pretty much the same as the poor who scraping bottom for little breadgrump while telling themselves they're getting a good bargain while remaining oblivious to all the better thing just fly right over their head.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Yeah...I don't even care enough that the guy's not using essences and stuff. I think he should, but I'm not going to get up in arms over it either. The same could be said for any random person I'd encounter running DR. But regardless, that's not the point of this for me. If he would have said "I don't feel like farming because I don't like it" and nothing more, that would have more straight forward than arguing in circles trying to justify something with fake math and poor logic. I still wouldn't have agreed with his stance, but I'd have respected it a little more since it'd be an honest one. Just be real with us, Goji, and this can finally come to an end.

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So, what was fake about the math I provided? I'd be interested to hear you attempt to elaborate because I have this strange feeling that you specifically are completely out of your depth in this discussion; but for some reason you still want to be a part of it. So you make vague, meaningless assertions about my position to other people while being terrified to address me directly. It's cute, but at this point I'm afraid I have to call you out a little. So, go ahead... Make an actual point and back it up with something. I dare you. ;)

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

So, what was fake about the math I provided? I'd be interested to hear you attempt to elaborate because I have this strange feeling that you specifically are completely out of your depth in this discussion; but for some reason you still want to be a part of it. So you make vague, meaningless assertions about my position to other people while being terrified to address me directly. It's cute, but at this point I'm afraid I have to call you out a little. So, go ahead... Make an actual point and back it up with something. I dare you. ;)

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I already have, so I've got nothing to prove. Just waiting for you to catch up. :) Others have as well but you just don't give a hoot. If I were afraid to address you directly I wouldn't be here. I've got nothing to be afraid of regardless. I post my opinions for all to see, not caring if I'm agreed with or not. The thing is, I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong. I don't go making some bs excuses. I own up to it. All you have to do is admit that you don't want to farm these things because that does not interest you. It's okay. Seriously, it is. I don't agree with it, but you do you. Just be honest. Pulling math and baseless remarks about "efficiency" out of thin air that isn't efficient at all is not necessary.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

So, what was fake about the math I provided? I'd be interested to hear you attempt to elaborate because I have this strange feeling that you specifically are completely out of your depth in this discussion; but for some reason you still want to be a part of it. So you make vague, meaningless assertions about my position to other people while being terrified to address me directly. It's cute, but at this point I'm afraid I have to call you out a little. So, go ahead... Make an actual point and back it up with something. I dare you. ;)

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The thing about your math example is that you never concluded them. It's always along the line of "If it takes X time to farm said essence, it'd be wasting time", but you never provide the X to compare and justify that it's longer than the time it saved because you never do the farming. You already decide it's a waste of time before actually trying whether it's a waste or not.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I already have, so I've got nothing to prove. Just waiting for you to catch up. :) Others have as well but you just don't give a hoot. If I were afraid to address you directly I wouldn't be here. I've got nothing to be afraid of regardless. I post my opinions for all to see, not caring if I'm agreed with or not. The thing is, I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong. I don't go making some bs excuses. I own up to it. All you have to do is admit that you don't want to farm these things because that does not interest you. It's okay. Seriously, it is. I don't agree with it, but you do you. Just be honest. Pulling math and baseless remarks about "efficiency" out of thin air that isn't efficient at all is not necessary.

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No, you post about people indirectly because you're afraid. It's a way to disagree with me but hope I won't notice. You're adorably timid. ;)

I've already admitted I don't want to farm these things, and the reason it doesn't interest me is because it's inefficient. These aren't mutually exclusive concepts. The inefficiency is what informs the fact that I can't be bothered, I've never once refused to admit that I'm not being a "team player," that fact is just irrelevant to what I'm saying. You people keep bringing up the fact that I'm not being a team player like it's supposed to floor me or something; like I'd be afraid to admit it, but the reality is I never cared. I'm still not going to waste time farming.

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Originally Posted by Fland

The thing about your math example is that you never concluded them. It's always along the line of "If it takes X time to farm said essence, it'd be wasting time", but you never provide the X to compare and justify that it's longer than the time it saved because you never do the farming. You already decide it's a waste of time before actually trying whether it's a waste or not.

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"If it takes x amount of time," is your cue. Honestly, if someone said in response "but when farming now you WILL get a Skirmisher essence every 24 seconds," I'd have probably just said "oh, ok, never mind then." I know for sure you couldn't back when I did that step of the relic, and I'm pretty sure you can't now, though. If you're telling me you can load up on skirmisher in SF that fast now I'm listening, however.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

No, you post about people indirectly because you're afraid. It's a way to disagree with me but hope I won't notice. You're adorably timid. ;)

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That's cute. Why don't you try talking to me again like you know me. I'm not afraid of anyone seeing anything I have to say, and I'm sure as HELL not afraid of talking to you. It irritates me to no end though, but I also don't back away from a debate. Those posts talking about you to other people? Out in the open. You saw them. They saw them. Not afraid to say anything. Here I am, once again, talking with you, much to my own dismay. I don't hesitate for a second in calling out someone when I disagree with them. But you are lashing out. I understand. The truth is a hard pill for some people to swallow.

So someone can get to level 25, but can't get enough clusters to buy essences? :confused:

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

I do like how you all obediently pop essences to benefit me in DR without me even asking. You're all such sweet, servile little lambs. ;)

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I find it downright adorable how upset you are at being called what you are - even going as far to go full karen with that oh so adorable and totally not passive aggressive "sweetie talk" - people must've hit a nerve :3

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

That's cute. Why don't you try talking to me again like you know me. I'm not afraid of anyone seeing anything I have to say, and I'm sure as HELL not afraid of talking to you. It irritates me to no end though, but I also don't back away from a debate. Those posts talking about you to other people? Out in the open. You saw them. They saw them. Not afraid to say anything. Here I am, once again, talking with you, much to my own dismay. I don't hesitate for a second in calling out someone when I disagree with them. But you are lashing out. I understand. The truth is a hard pill for some people to swallow.

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It may be only from brief interactions here, but I do know you. I know how you behave here and that's what informed my assessment. If you have something to say to me then say it to me, then maybe it'll be less obvious how afraid of me you are. ;)

I do think you're less intimidated by this conversation, though. A conversation about whether or not you're timid isn't going to go flying over your head, so you feel secure. When it came to the meat of this topic you were only really comfortable throwing snark at me indirectly from a safe distance, which is something a terrified man might do. :D

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Originally Posted by Rinhi

I find it downright adorable how upset you are at being called what you are - even going as far to go full karen with that oh so adorable and totally not passive aggressive "sweetie talk" - people must've hit a nerve :3

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What, I was just thanking you for being such a helpful little lamb... I mean I don't even have to ask; you just pop those essences and feed me those cumulative gains like it's your job. You probably wouldn't even stop if I asked you to. I'm just impressed by how hard you're always working on my behalf, completely of your own free will. Now, is this discussion really a productive use of your time? Shouldn't you be out there farming essences for my benefit? :D

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

"If it takes x amount of time," is your cue. Honestly, if someone said in response "but when farming now you WILL get a Skirmisher essence every 24 seconds," I'd have probably just said "oh, ok, never mind then." I know for sure you couldn't back when I did that step of the relic, and I'm pretty sure you can't now, though. If you're telling me you can load up on skirmisher in SF that fast now I'm listening, however.

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How do you know for sure when you never do the farming?
Besides even if farming skirmisher was not the most efficient back then, what about aetherweaver/martialist? Even back then you can easily farm these from level 1 plant in several seconds. You said it yourself you want the fastest and most efficient way, but you never consider other options and made a generalized conclusion based on one possible essence.

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Originally Posted by Fland

How do you know for sure when you never do the farming?
Besides even if farming skirmisher was not the most efficient back then, what about aetherweaver/martialist? Even back then you can easily farm these from level 1 plant in several seconds. You said it yourself you want the fastest and most efficient way, but you never consider other options and made a generalized conclusion based on one possible essence.

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I didn't consider the others because I was running with my NIN. Even if, however; why don't you provide more detail about these level 1 plants? Do they guarantee drop a fragment every time? Does that fragment guarantee an essence every time? Farming is/was inefficient because it's RNG on top of RNG. I highly doubt you could consistently get any essence at a rate of 1 every 24 seconds, but throw some actual numbers at me if you believe that was the case for aetherweave or martialist.

A small case for what can be achieved when people actually put effort into clearing quickly.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...15_minutes.png

Finished three in the span of what DF normally takes to clear it. Then ran it three more times for good measure. xD

This thread is lovely.

Early 2006 gamer denial syndrome, the only thing we're missing are threats to "1v1 me noob."

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

I'm guessing these are essences from the second half of Bozja. People at the DR phase of their relic likely aren't there yet, aren't appropriate level and won't have access to this. Correct me if I'm wrong.

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Hello, you are wrong. Here, allow me to correct you.

Elder, Fiendhunter, Duelist, Lost Flare, Dervish and Rend Armor are all essences and actions that you can get from fragments in exchange for 1 cluster LONG BEFORE you can even unlock Delubrum Reginae (you can start purchasing these fragments at rank 10, and DR requires rank 15 to unlock). By your own arcane math, all of these essences provide 3x the boost of Skirmisher, meaning they would save the raid 3x the time of Skirmisher, ie. 3 minutes, while requiring less than a minute to farm.

So not only are you wrong, but you've accidentally revealed that you had no idea of what you were talking about for the past 20 pages, as a result exposing yourself as a troll and saving everyone's time by avoiding responding to you in the future.

Have a nice day.

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Originally Posted by lezard21

Hello, you are wrong. Here, allow me to correct you.

Elder, Fiendhunter, Duelist, Lost Flare, Dervish and Rend Armor are all essences and actions that you can get from fragments in exchange for 1 cluster LONG BEFORE you can even unlock Delubrum Reginae (you can start purchasing these fragments at rank 10, and DR requires rank 15 to unlock). By your own arcane math, all of these essences provide 3x the boost of Skirmisher, meaning they would save the raid 3x the time of Skirmisher, ie. 3 minutes, while requiring less than a minute to farm.

So not only are you wrong, but you've accidentally revealed that you had no idea of what you were talking about for the past 20 pages, as a result exposing yourself as a troll and saving everyone's time by avoiding responding to you in the future.

Have a nice day.

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If clusters are guaranteed drops, the fragments guarantee essences and SE has removed the RNG element then yes, you're right, farming and using them may be more efficient. I think the RNG is still in place, but I don't really care to go back to Bozja and find out exactly what SE did with them in the last patch. If the RNG is still in place then you still need to provide some numbers to finish your point. How long does it take to solo farm clusters; what are the odds of getting the correct essence from a fragment; etc.

Either way, congratulations. It only took the like 5 of you combined roughly 20 pages to piece together the beginning of an actual counterargument. Not the quickest group, are you? ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

All of us have said pretty much the exact thing, but yes, he's finally won the internet. Now he's done!

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No, all of you just made terrible arguments about cumulative gains and rattled off words like leech and lazy through clenched teeth and tears of anger for 20 pages. Then one guy made the beginning of a decent point and you're all jumping in to claim it as your own before it's even finished. So, how long does it take to solo farm clusters? What are the odds of getting the correct essence from a fragment? Create an approximation of how long it takes to consistently farm everything you need for these time saving essence/lost action cocktails, and compare it to an approximation of how much time you're saving.

If you want this win then actually finish the counterargument that you're all trying to take credit for. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Either way, congratulations. It only took the like 5 of you combined roughly 20 pages to piece together the beginning of an actual counterargument. Not the quickest group, are you? ;)

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Yes, indeed, you won the internet, congratulations (let's ignore the fact that you've ignored my previous responses on your cherry picking replies)

/thread

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lezard21

Yes, indeed, you won the internet, congratulations (let's ignore the fact that you've ignored my previous responses on your cherry picking replies)

/thread

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All of us have said pretty much the exact thing, but yes, he's finally won the internet. Now he's done!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

All of us have said pretty much the exact thing, but yes, he's finally won the internet. Now he's done!

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All hail king Goj-

No, I can't. I just can't do it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

All hail king Goj-

No, I can't. I just can't do it.

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https://y.yarn.co/929a44ed-c885-4fba...ff58e_text.gif

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

x

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If we are talking from a different perspective, it has only taken you approximately 20 pages to see the other side of the argument which people have been constantly non-stop going on about. So we can attribute being slow to you now too, but alas I see you've resorted to the selfsame habit with this comment as to what you've previously been criticizing other people for doing such, this makes you a hypocrite, well done. I'm pretty sure I've been abundantly clear in the fact that you can farm pure essence fragments, and whilst I can agree that the essence in itself isn't guaranteed, the objective benefit is there regardless since you're getting something that is locked to your role. As a physical ranged DPS I'm either way getting Dervish or a Fiendhunter. For convenience the description for Dervish is provided below;

Increases critical hit rate of self and nearby party members by 10%, increases damage dealt by 7%, and reduces weaponskill cast time and recast time, spell cast time and recast time, and auto-attack delay by 1%. Duration: 60s

Across all 7 members, this is not a meek benefit either. So regardless of your outlook, you have something that is of significant benefit to both yourself and other members of the party, and like I have told you before, these fragments you can farm anywhere between 150-200 fragments per hour, each fragment will either give an essence or a lost action. I feel like if you're going to try and take the luxury of misattributing everyone's argument, you'd do well to actually make an effort to remember the points being made - This is quite clear in the fact you've asked several successive questions of which you had the answers previously laid out to you in a counterargument yesterday.

Let me in no uncertain terms clear this up for you. This game is an MMO, you are playing with other people. The effort people put into their craft is a benefit that is then passed on to you, comparatively the effort that you put into the craft, is a benefit that is then passed on to other people. The only correct outlook of this is to use the cumulative argument. If you're objectively too selfish to see this, then perhaps you ought to look in the mirror before you make a meek attempt at chalking an argument down to being 'bad'

As I said to you yesterday when you so joyfully wanted to ride the argument of efficiency, be it individual or collective.

You have no essences, join a group on duty finder, experience an average of 45 minute runs, even being lenient here. This guy has spent a cumulative time of 102 hours getting all relics.
vs
You have someone who spent 1-2~ hours farming 100 pure essences (edit: this does account for the fact you won't always get an essence), they join a group of like-minded individuals, and they encounter 15-18-minute runs. They've spent a cumulative time farming for 36-43 hours to get all relics, including the time spent farming the fragments.

Since you've seemingly wanted to disparage the speed with which people make their point known to you, I'm just going to counter it and say there's a limit to delusion, you know

Frankly speaking, it’s amazing how far of a stretch they would go performing a mental gymnastic simply to avoid putting minimum modicum of effort.

My guess in a hypothetical situation if where all essence-user left for their own PFs leaving all essence-less players in DF actually occurs (aka 80m run inc), they would simply stop working on (additional) relic(s) and labels the content as an absolute defect & deserve no attention lol.