Cash shop pricing is getting a bit much...

As someone who's played both WoW and FFXIV... I am okay with most of the prices. Most things are actually cheaper in FFXIV, for example the level boosts are less than half the price of WoW character boosts. Fantasia are less than half the price of race changes in WoW. I think the $18 outfits are a bit much, but the mounts/minions/etc are fine.

I dont take pleasure in saying this but, the real "negative force" behind high pricing are the gamers that keep buying the items.

Anyone trying to make a profit (much like most of us on the in-game market boards) will try to pass off the highest price possible.
If no one buys over a long enough period of time, we will likely lower the price.
If even one fool buys, we will forever know that even though the price is high there is a chance it well sell at that price...and keep selling at that price in the future.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

And yet over fifteen years later FFXI remains a subscription game. This doom say scenario of FFXIV going F2P will never happen.

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It was more a joke then anything, they clearly see that even with a monthly sub people will still buy into the mog station. Heck I buy things from time to time. Profit is profit regardless of how its obtained or by what means. And XI still having a sub is probably the reason XIV wont lose theres anytime soon.

Its sad we dont see more of it get put into XIV in terms of QoL, server and graphical areas of the game but as long as SE is making money its all good, I guess?!

It's absolutely a shame because I wanted the Nezha lady outfit and to see it is yet another ripoff of 18 dollars is thoroughly disappointing. This is downright robbery... for instance in Street fighter V I can purchase a character and OUTFIT bundle for 7 bucks which IMO is fair. It's the damn whales on these forums that keep saying they will pay for crap on mogstation that is making the prices for outfits really expensive. It's simple glamour that by all means should be in the game. All of these eastern outfits could have been part of quests in Kugane or something... we have an Eastern theme but hey to get actual Eastern outfits you need to pay! My god, paying a sub is already enough and even though these items are optional they are still ridiculously pricey and that is what pisses me off the most. Unless someone gifts me this, I dont think I'm ever going to spend a penny on it.

I don't have a problem with the pricing. We can go on all day about how so many things should be account wide instead of per character, but the pricing is on par with other similar items already on the store. That, and at the end of the day, it isn't anything necessary to play the game.

My problem is how many things seem to be store exclusive nowadays. An old event? Sure, cash shop. Region exclusives being made available in the West? Okay. But things like the ripped Manderville items have no business being in the store, especially since we have no way of knowing how much of our purchases go back towards XIV and not say, the new VII or something. :/

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Originally Posted by Wilford111

I'm not demanding anything here btw. I don't even want those items. But I'll never defend bad business, in whatever form and whatever the cultural norm is elsewhere. I spend my money on what I enjoy and find value in. For me personally, I think the prices for these mogshop items are absurd. I sympathize with those who can't afford them or won't buy them on principal.

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I agree on that and I am someone who bought a lot.
Lately I find myself paying way too much, maybe it's the paste they come up with the items, maybe the many 18€ items...But as a former person from the gaming industry, I know a lot of those items where made in less than 4 days, sometimes less than an hour...They are over value. And Blizzard who is own by Activision isn't a good ex to compare.

I love the game but I stopped buying mog station items since 2 months. I will wait for a sale because I want a future where SE brings more "normal" pricing so that most ppl can afford them.

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Originally Posted by ShadowHunterrX

If it's so simple, then there is no reason to discuss it on the forum. Then this whole topic is useless.

The reason for my rude question was very simple to trigger people. Like I said earlier I dont care about the *extra stuff* and too be honest, I dont really care if people buy them.

What i do understand why people are against it. You cannot really say there is alot of content what you keep playing the game in the long run.

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If your sole purpose was to trigger other people, then congrats on making yourself look petty and rude, I guess...? You do you.

/shrugs

This type of thread only exists on items that people really want but not willing to pay for it. You dont see people rage this much when it is those NPC outfit are on mogstation

I also want to note that calling the people "whales" that want to buy these items because they simply want to enjoy them, as is usually the case when someone sees something they want in real life such as a nice outfit or a new food that they want to try, you're just making those people tune you out. People are less likely to care what other people think regarding their own wallets when you try to shove your nose in their business and insult them in the process.

There's no need for name-calling on either side and honestly, pointing the fingers and blaming others for having a disposable income because you don't or because you're not willing to spend that much is just shifting the blame away from SE and your ire onto someone that doesn't really deserve it. You're not helping curb their spending habits, you're enabling them to do it purely out of spite at that point.

It's fine for people to think it's too expensive for their tastes. It's fine for people to think otherwise and buy it. We all have our different ways of spending and we really shouldn't be faulting one another for it. Imagine the last thing that you bought and someone randomly coming up to you and calling you a "whale" for buying it in real life, both sides are creating a hostile environment by being overly aggressive and condescending towards each other, but more so the people that just resort to the "whale" tactic when they see someone buying something that they don't agree with, but what themselves as well.

I want a lot of things in real life that I can't otherwise afford, I'm not about to just walk outside and insult every other person I see with them because I feel I deserve them as well. You don't insult someone walking down the street wearing an outfit that you can't afford, but they can...at least, you shouldn't because that's incredibly rude and you could be arrested for harassment. >_>;

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Originally Posted by Remedi

Maybe we should stop asking them in the first place?
Do we really need every crap the KR, CN clients add to theeir game for 0 reasons at all but beign sold for bucks to their playerbase? Some have really questionable taste

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One man`s trash is another man`s treasure. At least if they put them in the mog station (I understand that they do that for something that comes from some other version or did cost money in the other version too) we do have the chance to get them. If its your taste or not does not really count for this imo. (Especially since we already have trash [imo] that is the yokai mount)

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Originally Posted by polyphonica

I think it's because, when they first added the shop, it mostly/only contained returning event items, and they've kept those at a lower price point. Then, after people requested they also bring over the Chinese exclusive items, they started introducing new cash shop exclusive items at the higher pricing tier (while continuing to add seasonal rewards at lower price points). So because all the "new items" are more expensive, it creates a perception that prices have gone up.

It's also often the case that the new items are added to the cash shop during patch lulls (rather than coinciding with patches and seasonal events as the others often do), which draws even more attention to these new items and their prices. Obviously introducing these items at that time is a marketing strategy (since it doesn't get buried by other news), but I think it's also partly what's fueling this perception of an increased focus on the cash shop (since it's right during those lulls when people think "they could have added this to the game!").

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IMO the event items are far away from being cheap. Anything that is over one dollar for a simple wallpaper is too much, especially since Yoshida said that they dont want to earn money with that move (suddenly putting the event stuff in the mog station and not leaving them ingame) but give others a chance to own them..yet when you look at those prices..I mean those are items that are already ingame. Thus not something that was just created for cash shop.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

so.. don't.

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That "argument" can be used to anything. You dont like Eureka? Just dont do it. You dont like content x just dont do it. Just because we have the option not do it/or buy it doesnt mean that we should be fine with that.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

It’s wrong and entitled to demand an item for reduced price or for free when someone else had to pay for the same thing. These regional items weren’t passed out for free in their respective regions, the Chinese and Korean players had to pay for them in some manner so asking SE to give us those same items for free goes beyond the pale.

How would you feel if SE designed some NA or EU themed armor and made us pay for it (either directly or via a promotion), but then they turned around and mailed it to all of the other regions for free?

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I can understand that it would be too much to give us that for free if the other version had to pay for it. But why exactly is it entitlement if someone wants to pay less? Its a digital item. And in the end are you entitled too if you buy something for less in real life? Do you go and say that you want to pay more because customer/country x had to pay more? I am quite sure that most wont. And thats about real existing items that may cost the shop money even after creating it.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

That "argument" can be used to anything. You dont like Eureka? Just dont do it. You dont like content x just dont do it. Just because we have the option not do it/or buy it doesnt mean that we should be fine with that.

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To be fair, regarding content, this is a theme park MMO. Can't expect every piece of content to appeal to your particular tastes. I like Savage; others don't. Yet, it's still wrong for them to say Savage shouldn't be a thing because they personally don't like it. I don't understand the people who aren't "fine" with harder content being a thing just because "I don't like Savage/Ultimate". Sorry, that's not a valid reason, in my opinion.

Sure you can use the "Then don't" argument for issues with purchasing off the cash shop and participating in specific types of content you don't like. But the base arguments are different, imo. Response applies the same way, but the arguments are of a slightly different breed, if that makes sense. Personally, I find it an acceptable response to both: don't like the cash shop? Well, no one is forcing you to buy from it, so don't. Don't like Savage? Well, no one is forcing you to do it, so don't. I don't believe the premium app should be a thing, but it's coming anyways. So what am I going to do? Not download it.

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Originally Posted by Lunafreya

It's absolutely a shame because I wanted the Nezha lady outfit and to see it is yet another ripoff of 18 dollars is thoroughly disappointing. This is downright robbery... for instance in Street fighter V I can purchase a character and OUTFIT bundle for 7 bucks which IMO is fair. It's the damn whales on these forums that keep saying they will pay for crap on mogstation that is making the prices for outfits really expensive. It's simple glamour that by all means should be in the game. All of these eastern outfits could have been part of quests in Kugane or something... we have an Eastern theme but hey to get actual Eastern outfits you need to pay! My god, paying a sub is already enough and even though these items are optional they are still ridiculously pricey and that is what pisses me off the most. Unless someone gifts me this, I dont think I'm ever going to spend a penny on it.

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But that's how much it cost overseas where it was first. It just wouldn't be fair if we got it for free when it was a paid item to begin with over there. I mean techinally we're not even posed to have it really. These were china only items but the US/EU playerbase screamed for them so here there are. With the same price if I'm not mistaken. This is a prime case of people getting what they ask for.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

To be fair, regarding content, this is a theme park MMO.

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Thats true. But you can still do it and see the flaws (nothing is ever perfect) and discuss them. These feedback posts might then even be helping those that truly enjoy this content because it might give SE ideas to make something better. But if you then have someone coming in and saying: dont do it, then any kind of good feedback will be made useless because if you have a problem with it or dislike it you can just ignore it right? I find this to be a bad argument. You dont need to constantly do a content to see how it functions and how it might be better.

I dont do savage yet I would not write that it should be gone because I understand that this is simply not for me. I would become more vocal if for example 99% of a patch would only be savage because its only a niche content. And I do support those players that do savage and still find faults in it.

There is also a difference when people for example say that they want those items ingame instead of cash shop (thus nobody has to really pay money and it still exist) or to say that it costs too much. A price decrease would hurt nobody..and I am a bit suprised that this count as entitled for some..

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Originally Posted by ko_

But that's how much it cost overseas where it was first. It just wouldn't be fair if we got it for free when it was a paid item to begin with over there. I mean techinally we're not even posed to have it really. These were china only items but the US/EU playerbase screamed for them so here there are. With the same price if I'm not mistaken. This is a prime case of people getting what they ask for.

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CORRECT, they asked for it to be on the cash shop which is a major problem.

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Originally Posted by Lunafreya

CORRECT, they asked for it to be on the cash shop which is a major problem.

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How is it a major problem? The players that asked for it to be in MS means that they're willing to pay for it.

ultimately the point of cash shop is to make money so they're going to keep pushing prices to see the limit and people keep buying a ton no matter how expensive they make it so they will keep making it more and more until they find the point where profit falls.

Kind of how capitalism works. Really doesn't matter at all how much people complain on a forum as long as the cash flow keeps increasing

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Originally Posted by DreamAngel-Ren

How is it a major problem? The players that asked for it to be in MS means that they're willing to pay for it.

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Because being a whale is just that annoying. Not everything has to be served on a silver platter to them by paying.

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Originally Posted by Lunafreya

Because being a whale is just that annoying. Not everything has to be served on a silver platter to them by paying.

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.....The person paying full price for something is the one that needs something served on a silver platter, but not the person complaining that they don't want to pay for it unless it costs $7 or doesn't exist at all...?

Isn't this a contradiction somehow...I mean....

Am I missing something here? :confused:

Again, just because some people are willing to purchase something that they want and you want at the same time, but can't afford it does not mean you should insult and call them a "whale" out of emotional spite.

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Originally Posted by Lunafreya

CORRECT, they asked for it to be on the cash shop which is a major problem.

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I'm not trying to be mean or anything. But do you think they would've put it somewhere else if people asked? I'm generally asking as these were cash shop items when they were made. So I don't know if people asked for these to be somewhere else if it would've happened. Seeing as these were made by the cash shop team overseas. I dunno.. and I guess we'll never know really. But from my understanding these were always meant for the store.

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Originally Posted by ko_

I'm not trying to be mean or anything. But do you think they would've put it somewhere else if people asked? I'm generally asking as these were cash shop items when they were made. So I don't know if people asked for these to be somewhere else if it would've happened. Seeing as these were made by the cash shop team overseas. I dunno.. and I guess we'll never know really. But from my understanding these were always meant for the store.

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Well, I think if people stopped harping to get it on the cash shop and instead protested that they want this stuff in game en masse we'd probably have a change. Though, maybe that's just going to take a miracle. Sure, they were done by the cash shop team overseas but I do think we should still be able to get them in game even if undyeable or just a similar model.

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Originally Posted by Lunafreya

Well, I think if people stopped harping to get it on the cash shop and instead protested that they want this stuff in game en masse we'd probably have a change. Though, maybe that's just going to take a miracle. Sure, they were done by the cash shop team overseas but I do think we should still be able to get them in game even if undyeable or just a similar model.

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I guess we'll just have to ask them to do that for other items and see what they say. That would take alot of people to ask that tho, so heres for hope.

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Originally Posted by Lunafreya

Well, I think if people stopped harping to get it on the cash shop and instead protested that they want this stuff in game en masse we'd probably have a change. Though, maybe that's just going to take a miracle. Sure, they were done by the cash shop team overseas but I do think we should still be able to get them in game even if undyeable or just a similar model.

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I guess we don't know how the business relationship works. If the publishers in these other countries did help to cover the cost of the development of these items, I doubt they'd want that, since they'd want to try to recoup some of their investment with the sales here. If it's made available for free in-game here, it'd definitely cut into sales. Keep in mind that the Chinese version isn't F2P either; they pay by the hour, and then also have these purchase items. It'd probably annoy customers in those markets to get "exclusive" cash shop items and then find out that the rest of the world gets similar versions for free in-game when they don't. Plus, given that these markets are a few patches behind, you'd get weird cases where they'd have to remove things from the patches here because they were already otherwise sold there. I suspect that, if not for selling them in some way (through a partner promotion or cash shop), they probably would have just stayed exclusive, and that was actually what triggered people's "harping to get it on the cash shop."

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Originally Posted by Lunafreya

Well, I think if people stopped harping to get it on the cash shop and instead protested that they want this stuff in game en masse we'd probably have a change. Though, maybe that's just going to take a miracle. Sure, they were done by the cash shop team overseas but I do think we should still be able to get them in game even if undyeable or just a similar model.

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Essentially, you're asking for a free version when the markets they were originally designed for (China and Korean) paid the equivalent to what we're being charged now. Putting aside it makes no sense whatsoever to gave Cash Shop items available for free, the third party company SE subsidizes to likely wouldn't allow such a practice. It'd be like SE releasing the maid outfit through an in-game event during the Amazon promotion. Odds are near guaranteed Amazon tells them to sob off when the next promotion rolls around.

As for people asking things be put on the Mogstation. They do so knowing SE wouldn't have any incentive otherwise and don't mind paying extra for specific cosmetics. I adore Tifa's outfit from Advent Children. Now which do you think will more likely garner SE's attention...

"I want Tifa's Advent Children outfit for free through an in-game event which will cost you money to create."
"I will purchase Tifa's Advent Children outfit from the Mogstation if you design it."

That's why people ask for things on the Mogstation. You are significantly more likely to see results.

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Originally Posted by Lunafreya

Because being a whale is just that annoying. Not everything has to be served on a silver platter to them by paying.

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Splurging every once in a while does not make someone a whale. And everything is not "served to them." In fact, Reddit did a statistic on the Mogstation recently: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...wow_and_other/

Out of 50 minions and 33 mounts, only 3 and 6, respectively, have been released as Cash Shop exclusives, Promotional or Veteran rewards. This is actually down from ARR and HW, though, obviously, SB has another year to go. I am all for criticising SE's more recent practices, but let's avoid the hyperbole.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

And yet over fifteen years later FFXI remains a subscription game. This doom say scenario of FFXIV going F2P will never happen.

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going f2p is not doomsday sayers. With retainer fees, this app fee and mog station this game SHOULD BE F2P.

Right now it is a F2P model gated behind a sub, they are double dipping this point.

with that said:

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Essentially, you're asking for a free version when the markets they were originally designed for (China and Korean) paid the equivalent to what we're being charged now. Putting aside it makes no sense whatsoever to gave Cash Shop items available for free, the third party company SE subsidizes to likely wouldn't allow such a practice. It'd be like SE releasing the maid outfit through an in-game event during the Amazon promotion. Odds are near guaranteed Amazon tells them to sob off when the next promotion rolls around.

As for people asking things be put on the Mogstation. They do so knowing SE wouldn't have any incentive otherwise and don't mind paying extra for specific cosmetics. I adore Tifa's outfit from Advent Children. Now which do you think will more likely garner SE's attention...

"I want Tifa's Advent Children outfit for free through an in-game event which will cost you money to create."
"I will purchase Tifa's Advent Children outfit from the Mogstation if you design it."

That's why people ask for things on the Mogstation. You are significantly more likely to see results.



Splurging every once in a while does not make someone a whale. And everything is not "served to them." In fact, Reddit did a statistic on the Mogstation recently: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...wow_and_other/

Out of 50 minions and 33 mounts, only 3 and 6, respectively, have been released as Cash Shop exclusives, Promotional or Veteran rewards. This is actually down from ARR and HW, though, obviously, SB has another year to go. I am all for criticising SE's more recent practices, but let's avoid the hyperbole.

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Even though I am somewhat "anti mogstation" I agree with you. I have no issues with them putting extra in the game that was not intended. However at the same token, be reasonable with the price, it is simply too much this point. This app for example, should be completely free (what it does based on what they told us) sure they can add reasonable micro transactions (NOT ONES THAT are for listing items on the MB though) That app is paid with our sub, with what was announced. Locking a basic UI function behind a second sub cost is the biggest joke I have seen, since one time fees on BS is that... one time..

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Originally Posted by Alleo

That "argument" can be used to anything. You dont like Eureka? Just dont do it. You dont like content x just dont do it. Just because we have the option not do it/or buy it doesnt mean that we should be fine with that.

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It can. However comparing someone complaining about the price of something because they just don't want to pay money for it to someone who doesn't want to do something they've technically paid for access for and have suggestions on how to make better is quite a stretch.

In one case we have a very black and white solution: Bite the bullet and buy it or wait for a sale or don't buy it and complain hard enough that they might cave and reduce the price. We know that people are buying the item even in the small sample that's provided via the forums. This means that SE has very little reason to cave and reduce the price since it is selling. You can make an argument they'd sell more if they reduced the price, but then they'd HAVE to sell more to make the same amount of money. Money in the bank to a company is usually much more attractive than potential money without any sort of contract attached to it. The prudent choice here then is buy it or don't. "I don't have enough so you should make it cheaper" is whining. "It's not worth what you've priced it" is provably wrong by instance of people buying it. DON'T BUY IT IF IT'S NOT WORTH IT TO YOU.


In the other case we have content you've arguably paid for already , or at least paid for access to. It's many faceted because there's the actual content itself, the rewards if any and the possibility of future content locked behind the initial foray. Some people will want the rewards but not want to do the content, some people will like the content but think the rewards are dumb and some may only be concerned because they cannot complete the content or complete it in a reasonable amount of time. People can offer suggestions like what they found unpleasant about it or what they'd like to see in the future because they're already invested in it literally.

It's the difference between buying a team jersey or pennant and paying to watch a game where after you enter everyone's shoes have been glued to the ground. In one case you see the price and decide yes or no. The other you go in expecting a certain amount of value for what you paid but get something other than what you expected.


You can reply "So Don't" to any suggestion but it matters what the problem is.

The problem is you already don't buy it, and it keeps coming, because others do. There's no solution you can do that has equivalent weight. Your only hope is they overreach so much that they manage to annoy everyone, and by then its too late, the game is ruined. SW battlefront 2. So the "no" vote is almost always captive to the "yes" vote. And the yes people stay yes for a long time. The yes people literally shifted the industry in the direction of micro transactions. In the end, protesting and not buying don't seem to work, the only thing that does is catastrophe.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

The problem is you already don't buy it, and it keeps coming, because others do. There's no solution you can do that has equivalent weight. Your only hope is they overreach so much that they manage to annoy everyone, and by then its too late, the game is ruined. SW battlefront 2. So the "no" vote is almost always captive to the "yes" vote. And the yes people stay yes for a long time. The yes people literally shifted the industry in the direction of micro transactions. In the end, protesting and not buying don't seem to work, the only thing that does is catastrophe.

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You're complaining that a company is selling a product to a market that's willing to pay for it and in enough numbers that it is profitable. There are extremes of this that are actually morally questionable such as slavery and price gouging on essential services and supplies but satisfying a market need for a costume that doesn't actually exist isn't one of them. Moral outrage at the high price of a luxury item IN a luxury service is ridiculous to me.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

You're complaining that a company is selling a product to a market that's willing to pay for it and in enough numbers that it is profitable. There are extremes of this that are actually morally questionable such as slavery and price gouging on essential services and supplies but satisfying a market need for a costume that doesn't actually exist isn't one of them. Moral outrage at the high price of a luxury item IN a luxury service is ridiculous to me.

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When the health of a game is actually affected because "supposed to be normal content" becomes neglected because of a cash shop, heck yea I/we will complain. & i've heard enough about the mmo attraction park bs also because that is pretty bad , someone else quoted disney, leave disney out of this & yes idc that you buy authentic items or even the app, but this game is getting neglected & that is pretty bad, the whole cash shop thing is just making it worst imo.

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Originally Posted by Ruf

When the health of a game is actually affected because "supposed to be normal content" becomes neglected because of a cash shop, heck yea I/we will complain. & i've heard enough about the mmo attraction park bs also because that is pretty bad , someone else quoted disney, leave disney out of this & yes idc that you buy authentic items or even the app, but this game is getting neglected & that is pretty bad, the whole cash shop thing is just making it worst imo.

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You're welcome to your opinion of course, but I'm not seeing the actual health of the game degrading. In fact the server move funded by the additional income from the cash shop has improved my experience personally. I don't see the neglect you apparently do. In what way has the game been neglected or degraded because of the cash shop? Keep in mind that all services offered by the app are not being removed from the game or being withheld from the game, they were added ON TOP of what is available.

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Originally Posted by Ruf

When the health of a game is actually affected because "supposed to be normal content" becomes neglected because of a cash shop, heck yea I/we will complain. & i've heard enough about the mmo attraction park bs also because that is pretty bad , someone else quoted disney, leave disney out of this & yes idc that you buy authentic items or even the app, but this game is getting neglected & that is pretty bad, the whole cash shop thing is just making it worst imo.

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Except the general health of the game is not declining because of the cash shop. To insinuate that it is is objectively wrong.

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Originally Posted by Lunafreya

CORRECT, they asked for it to be on the cash shop which is a major problem.

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With regards to the Chinese/Korean outfits, they were part of the Chinese and Korean Mogstation originally. They aren’t going to be added to the JP/NA/EU version of FFXIV for free when their home countries that specifically commissioned the pieces for their version of the game had to pay for them. To ask for them for free when others had to pay is entitlement.

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Originally Posted by Lunafreya

Because being a whale is just that annoying. Not everything has to be served on a silver platter to them by paying.

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You asking for something for free where others had to pay for it is entitlement; how is someone paying for something them asking for something on a silver platter? Wouldn’t someone asking something for free be the person who is asking for something on a silver platter?

People occasionally buying items from the Mogstation doesn’t make them a “whale”. Enough with the name-calling. People aren’t going to listen to your comments and arguments if you continue to call those on the opposite side of you (in this case, those who buy from/support the cash shop) names. That just makes them inclined to not listen because you’re being rude.

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Originally Posted by Lunafreya

Well, I think if people stopped harping to get it on the cash shop and instead protested that they want this stuff in game en masse we'd probably have a change. Though, maybe that's just going to take a miracle. Sure, they were done by the cash shop team overseas but I do think we should still be able to get them in game even if undyeable or just a similar model.

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If there wasn’t a cash shop, these items just wouldn’t exist at all. They wouldn’t suddenly become available in an undyeable version, or as part of an event, or an achievement reward. The Chinese and Korean items were specifically commissioned by the third-party corporations that sponsor the Chinese and Korean versions of FFXIV in their respective countries, and they were paid for by the individuals in those countries. Asking for them for free is entitlement.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

You're complaining that a company is selling a product to a market that's willing to pay for it and in enough numbers that it is profitable.

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Its more complex. We are all part of the market for ffxiv, while we segment into submarkets when it comes to the mogstation. The point I was trying to make is that the market segment is in its way powerful enough to drag the whole market along, and the whole market is captive because there isn't a symmetrical aspect to "buy things to show support." That means if the segment gets increasingly catered too, the main market gets dragged along until some form of catastrophe happens.

Like enough people shop at walmart (segment) to keep it going, no matter if its harmful to the overall market (people who buy retail.) There's a debate whether this is true or not, and its too long to go into here, but that's kind of what I mean. The point i was referring too is about "just don't do it," as a response, but even if you don't, the market is still shaped by the actions of others.

As for the complaining, it's more a warning to SE to be careful with the cash shop. I'm trying not to be extreme on this, because the cash shop is generally ok. But its pretty easy to get worse; Black Desert is a very good example of glamour micros that charge what the market can bear.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

Its more complex. We are all part of the market for ffxiv, while we segment into submarkets when it comes to the mogstation. The point I was trying to make is that the market segment is in its way powerful enough to drag the whole market along, and the whole market is captive because there isn't a symmetrical aspect to "buy things to show support." That means if the segment gets increasingly catered too, the main market gets dragged along until some form of catastrophe happens.

Like enough people shop at walmart (segment) to keep it going, no matter if its harmful to the overall market (people who buy retail.) There's a debate whether this is true or not, and its too long to go into here, but that's kind of what I mean. The point i was referring too is about "just don't do it," as a response, but even if you don't, the market is still shaped by the actions of others.

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The problem with walmart is they are a giant crushing smaller businesses by out discounting them and eating the losses. Indeed that is not a debate I care to bring into "is 18 dollars expensive for non-existant clothes". However this is far from that case as well. They aren't muscling out other games since their product is only redeemable within the confines of their own game.

You know what WOULD be a powerful vote though? If many people bought things when they went on sale. I would bet you though that this isn't the case. People who don't buy things on the cash shop aren't 30 or even 40% away from buying the item. It's either worth money to them or it isn't most of the time. If it's worth actual money they will find the money to pay for eventually by saving. If it's not then it will have to get incredibly reduced for them to even consider the purchase. All conjecture sure, but buying something IS a more powerful vote than NOT buying something.

All in all you are originally complaining that the prices are raising, which they are not. New types of items are being made available and many of them at the same time. You are not obligated to buy all items at once. You are no more manipulated to buy virtual items than you are to pay for the subscription fee. You can stop at any time and while I will readily concede there are people with genuine mental issues that CANNOT stop, it's a disservice to everyone else to consider them the norm and an insult to the competence of the general public to police their purchasing for them.

This catastrophe you imagine is.. what? That the cash-shop will become all intrusive and have it's fingers in gear, job unlocks and quest progression? FFXIV will become a game you cannot keep current in unless you drop more money than the subscription? It's a genuine question, what is this disaster you hope to rally the community to avoid? I'm going to venture that your worst nightmare for FFXIV is someone elses ideal game.

I can applaud your conviction if this is truly about the well-being of this game we all enjoy, but if your stated concern is just because "things are too expensive and might get more expensive"? It's going to be a harsh world out there for you.

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Originally Posted by Lunafreya

Because being a whale is just that annoying. Not everything has to be served on a silver platter to them by paying.

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You know, I've bitten my tongue about as long as I can stand. This is like the 3rd time you've done insulted people who do buy things from the cash shop... *oh don't you worry, I am typing in the rest of my edit right now...I'll just post it at the end of the page*

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

It can. However comparing someone complaining about the price of something because they just don't want to pay money for it to someone who doesn't want to do something they've technically paid for access for and have suggestions on how to make better is quite a stretch.

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For some glamour or mounts are important. (I mean would people really farm content that much if it did not have glamour or mounts in it?) I for example would have loved to have the carbuncle as a mount but the only way to get one of them is to pay. I would be way less annoyed if cash shop only had either re-colored versions of existing mounts or old event items. But exclusive items in a game that we already pay monthly for is just bad imo.

I am fine if they put the stuff from the other versions in the cash shop too, if they costs real money over there but its getting really annoying to see unique mounts only in there. And then the stuff does cost quite a bit. These are only digital goods. After they are created you kinda dont need more money to sell it. Just a one time creation and you are done. Sell one mount for 10 Dollars to 500 people and you earned 5000 $. Have 1000 people and you are already earning 10.000 $. Isnt that enough? I mean they are probably earning quite a lot of money from all the service changes and Fantasia..shouldnt that be more than enough to finance the cash shop?

In the end I am quite sure that if some real life goods suddenly cost a lot more people would also be annoyed and complain about it. Its kinda the same here. Would be interesting to know if they would earn more if they decrease the price or if that would hurt them.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

You're complaining that a company is selling a product to a market that's willing to pay for it and in enough numbers that it is profitable. There are extremes of this that are actually morally questionable such as slavery and price gouging on essential services and supplies but satisfying a market need for a costume that doesn't actually exist isn't one of them. Moral outrage at the high price of a luxury item IN a luxury service is ridiculous to me.

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Would you be fine if they would sell unique (and maybe highly requested) mounts for 200$? Because I am quite sure that there are still people that would buy that and you also only need a couple of buyers to get some money. I mean the market is buying it right? The problem with it being profitable is that a digital good cant just run out and does not have much cost after the creation. So even if they sold something overpriced they will probably still make profit.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

If there wasn’t a cash shop, these items just wouldn’t exist at all. They wouldn’t suddenly become available in an undyeable version, or as part of an event, or an achievement reward. The Chinese and Korean items were specifically commissioned by the third-party corporations that sponsor the Chinese and Korean versions of FFXIV in their respective countries, and they were paid for by the individuals in those countries. Asking for them for free is entitlement.

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Yes SE once stated that they only exist because of the cash shop (I think) but is that really true? I mean no company would just go out of their way and tell us that these might have been rewards for content but instead they put it behind a paywall because they would get money from that..so it might be that we would not get everything from the cash shop but I doubt that each item would not exist. There is no fact for that. We simply dont know. (And honestly if they dont exist we would not be much angered because we would not know that it could have existed.)

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Originally Posted by Alleo

For some glamour or mounts are important. (I mean would people really farm content that much if it did not have glamour or mounts in it?) I for example would have loved to have the carbuncle as a mount but the only way to get one of them is to pay. I would be way less annoyed if cash shop only had either re-colored versions of existing mounts or old event items. But exclusive items in a game that we already pay monthly for is just bad imo.
I am fine if they put the stuff from the other versions in the cash shop too, if they costs real money over there but its getting really annoying to see unique mounts only in there. And then the stuff does cost quite a bit. These are only digital goods. After they are created you kinda dont need more money to sell it. Just a one time creation and you are done. Sell one mount for 10 Dollars to 500 people and you earned 5000 $. Have 1000 people and you are already earning 10.000 $. Isnt that enough? I mean they are probably earning quite a lot of money from all the service changes and Fantasia..shouldnt that be more than enough to finance the cash shop?

In the end I am quite sure that if some real life goods suddenly cost a lot more people would also be annoyed and complain about it. Its kinda the same here. Would be interesting to know if they would earn more if they decrease the price or if that would hurt them.



Would you be fine if they would sell unique (and maybe highly requested) mounts for 200$? Because I am quite sure that there are still people that would buy that and you also only need a couple of buyers to get some money. I mean the market is buying it right? The problem with it being profitable is that a digital good cant just run out and does not have much cost after the creation. So even if they sold something overpriced they will probably still make profit.

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There is no reproduction cost, so these prices are just cash grabby. SE is not hurting for money, so why not experiment a bit with lower prices???driven by greed, all it is.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Isnt that enough? I mean they are probably earning quite a lot of money from all the service changes and Fantasia..shouldnt that be more than enough to finance the cash shop?

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FFXIV is funding the FFVII Remake in the same way it funded FFXV. Most of the money it brings in—from subs and the cash shop—probably go into FFVII Remake production, FFXV DLC chronologing Noctis’ every day breakfast choices, and other SE projects. Then a bit goes back into FFXIV. But SE uses FFXIV to fund other projects first.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Yes SE once stated that they only exist because of the cash shop (I think) but is that really true? I mean no company would just go out of their way and tell us that these might have been rewards for content but instead they put it behind a paywall because they would get money from that..so it might be that we would not get everything from the cash shop but I doubt that each item would not exist. There is no fact for that. We simply dont know. (And honestly if they dont exist we would not be much angered because we would not know that it could have existed.)

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There are two different art teams that design gear—one for in-game, and one for the cash shop. If there was no cash shop, there would be no need for the cash shop team to design these items; at least not for NA/EU/JP. And you can count on the Chinese and Korean items never coming over here, because they are specifically commissioned by the companies that sponsor the Chinese and Korean versions of FFXIV. They sell for real money over in China and Korea; do you think that SE would bring them over to NA/EU/JP and hand them out for free? No, they would not.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

There is no reproduction cost, so these prices are just cash grabby. SE is not hurting for money, so why not experiment a bit with lower prices???driven by greed, all it is.

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There is no such thing as a business who thinks “I’ve made enough money; no need to make any more”. Ever. While the $18 USD outfits could stand to be account-wide at the least, there is no business alive who isn’t out to make as much money as possible. The larger the scale of the business, the higher they aim for in terms of profits.

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Originally Posted by Lunafreya

Because being a whale is just that annoying. Not everything has to be served on a silver platter to them by paying.

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Requesting things from the cash shop and buying them every once in a while does not equal being a whale. And for those who are whales that do like to buy everything, that has no bearing on how pricing on the cash shop works. Hyomin pointed out exactly how the devs price things in the cash shop, with a few exceptions, and that seems to have gotten ignored in favor of this ‘oh my god, FFXIV is dying because of greed’ mentality that seems to have overrun the forums lately.

Yes…maybe FFXIV is reaching a bit for money, but for those of you out there to attack other posters for how they want to spend their money is honestly none of your damn business. If I want the mount, I will get the mount. If you don’t like it: tough. If you can’t afford it: that’s okay, let’s just hope that it goes on sale in the future. If you don’t buy out of protest: protest with your wallet, but don’t attack anybody who does want to purchase items from the cash shop.

I’m all for discussion and debate. Many of y’all know this. A lot of conversations do get heated about various subjects. But this doomsaying that’s been trending on a level almost worse than what's on reddit needs to honestly stop. Because I have purchased things from the cash shop, I (and others who bought things) deserve to be bad-mouthed and attacked and blamed in part because of the current state of affairs? If that’s the trend, that you deserved to be insulted for making some damn purchases on a virtual store, then that’s not an issue with the game…

…that’s an issue with THIS community.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

FFXIV is funding the FFVII Remake in the same way it funded FFXV. Most of the money it brings in—from subs and the cash shop—probably go into FFVII Remake production, FFXV DLCchronologing Noctis’ every day breakfast choices, and other SE projects. Then a bit goes back into FFXIV. But SE uses FFXIV to fund other projects first.



There is no such thing as a business who thinks “I’ve made enough money; no need to make any more”. Ever. While the $18 USD outfits could stand to be account-wide at the least, there is no business alive who isn’t out to make as much money as possible. The larger the scale of the business, the higher they aim for in terms of profits.

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Well they lose out on any profits like me that see them pushing too far for exploitation so there is that I guess... If they want to have business with few with more money over a wider audience with less money, that is their decision.

But what happens when gaming businesses get too greedy?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNiVSj9uzTw

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

Well they lose out on any profits like me that see them pushing too far for exploitation so there is that I guess... If they want to have business with few with more money over a wider audience with less money, that is their decision.

But what happens when gaming businesses get too greedy?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNiVSj9uzTw

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Well, considering SE is making far more money off of monthly subscriptions as opposed to cash shop purchases, you unsubbing hurts them far more than you not buying a fire footwheels mount for your character. But you seem to still be subbed, so SE is still making profit off of you.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

FFXIV is funding the FFVII Remake in the same way it funded FFXV. Most of the money it brings in—from subs and the cash shop—probably go into FFVII Remake production, FFXV DLC chronologing Noctis’ every day breakfast choices, and other SE projects. Then a bit goes back into FFXIV. But SE uses FFXIV to fund other projects first.



There are two different art teams that design gear—one for in-game, and one for the cash shop. If there was no cash shop, there would be no need for the cash shop team to design these items; at least not for NA/EU/JP. And you can count on the Chinese and Korean items never coming over here, because they are specifically commissioned by the companies that sponsor the Chinese and Korean versions of FFXIV. They sell for real money over in China and Korea; do you think that SE would bring them over to NA/EU/JP and hand them out for free? No, they would not.



There is no such thing as a business who thinks “I’ve made enough money; no need to make any more”. Ever. While the $18 USD outfits could stand to be account-wide at the least, there is no business alive who isn’t out to make as much money as possible. The larger the scale of the business, the higher they aim for in terms of profits.

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And as a customer of FF14 I honestly dont care if they need that to finance game number x or another DLC of 15. I am fine if the overall money gets divided in SE (thats how a company works) but I wont take that as an argument to milk us of money..also wasnt it said that Cash shop money stays with FF14?

Again it might be that we would not get the items (but we simply dont know) but maybe the team that is there for the cash shop would be then creating glamour and mounts for the rest of the game thus giving us more items there. Or they would be used in other SE projects. We dont know so I would not say that its 100% that way.

Yes business lives to make money..but why do we as the customers should agree with all those ways they make money? They are not our friends, we dont get our share from this. We are paying them money to use something they produce and thus have the right to write when it goes a way we dont like. EA also only wants to make money so why complain when they introduce lootboxes..I mean you dont need them right and maybe those items would not exist without the lootbox. Yet lootboxes are probably one of the biggest cancer of the current gaming industry and EA rightfully got a lot of rage for that. Or would SE suddenly be bad if they decide to put the cash shop items behind lootboxes? And if so why? I mean its still just a mount that you dont need and if thats too much money thanks to RNG you simply dont need to buy them. (Yes it might a bit too much but its just funny to me how lootboxes are like the devil [and I do dislike it] but milking us in a sub MMO with cash shop sales is fine)

I mean you can go the way that companies like EA go (and which seems to be the path that SE wants to walk too) but you also have companies like CD red project and their Witcher 3 series..not only did we get any "DLC" for free but the two expansions could finally be called an expansion and was worth every money for the amount of content we got. Not some 15 $ DLC with one new mission about one character..

At the beginning I was fine with giving SE my money. I got two mounts from the cash shop (in sale) because I believed that I would help them make the game better..and I bought merchandise too. Thanks to the way they are handling a lot of stuff for the last few months, the only cash shop items I got were gifts from friends that I could not talk out of it and I did not buy a single merchandise again and wont do that in the future.. A friend ingame who is a big FF fan also said that the way the whole company is going is way too greedy for him and that he will stop buying merchandise and collectors edition from them. And he was someone that did buy quite some bit. We may be only two people but who knows how far they will go in the future (especially with the app..) and maybe there will be a point where its more than just a handful of people that stop it.