Dev blog: New Feast rewards

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

A weapon still obtainable to this day, mind. There is no timed lockout on it.

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That wasn't the point but I have repeatedly suggested that future top 100 finishers have a choice between the current seasons reward or a past seasons reward. That way the time restraint is removed and it keeps the rewards as hard to obtain as they were in the past.

However Bourne Endeavor continues to ignore this suggestion and continues to suggest solutions that are easier and easier to perform. Her latest suggestion were using wolf collars which are literally just a time investment... would literally take no effort to collect top 100 rewards.... it's sad.

edit: mismatch marks and collars, still the same idea

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Originally Posted by Aviars

That wasn't the point

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That was my point though. Besides which, there is no seasonal lockout whatsoever with Ultimate--in fact, you can farm it to get every reward if you like.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

That was my point though. Besides which, there is no seasonal lockout whatsoever with Ultimate--in fact, you can farm it to get every reward if you like.

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Ya I saw your point, are you going to ignore my suggestion and keep complaining about the time restraint or actually respond to it? Unlike Bourne up there.

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Originally Posted by Aviars

Ya I saw your point, are you going to ignore my suggestion and keep complaining about the time restraint or actually respond to it? Unlike Bourne up there.

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"Bourne senpai please notice me."

Why don't you look me in the eyes when you respond to me? :P

As far as your suggestion, lemme one up you. Each season lasts 1 month, with a 1 week preseason. That way people can prepare, grind out, and compete every month without having to wait an exorbitant amount of time.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

"Bourne senpai please notice me."

Why don't you look me in the eyes when you respond to me? :P

As far as your suggestion, lemme one up you. Each season lasts 1 month, with a 1 week preseason. That way people can prepare, grind out, and compete every month without having to wait an exorbitant amount of time.

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The more bourne doesn't respond, the more it makes me right. My last post to her on the previous page pointed out numerous contradictions in her argument, it's quite clear she doesn't want to answer to them or my reasonable suggestion. It's ok ;]

1 month isn't enough to allow ratings to settle, it regularly takes several weeks for ratings to settle and then allow people to have games that match their respective skill level. You should be reminded that everyone starts at zero rating. Also the last season was was roughly over 2 months which is fine. You also have to consider that SE needs time to actually create rewards. Are you suggesting they do something new every month?

PVP seasons in other games don't just last for a month, try and think of something reasonable rather than be cheeky and make seasons unreasonably short and then making everything way more common as a result.

I think the super exclusivity of feast stuff is kind of the core problem.

other pvp stuff is just keep at it and you'll eventually get the reward, don't really see that many ADS or field commander sets so it seems to be an effective limiting factor
pve stuff is always in a form of current season is hard to get and previous season stuff is much easier

and the feast is once ever for a super limited amount of people participating no matter how many are high skilled and then gone forever

Just seems like it doesn't really fit into the way ffxiv is, feast even has a token system associated with it
I can see an achievement system required for rank bracelets and trophies but all the glamour seems silly to me

hard to get is one thing but i've never even seen a feast mount or armor set in game yet

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Originally Posted by Aviars

The more bourne doesn't respond, the more it makes me right.

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What is this? 2nd grade?

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Originally Posted by Aviars

The more bourne doesn't respond, the more it makes me right. My last post to her on the previous page pointed out numerous contradictions in her argument, it's quite clear she doesn't want to answer to them or my reasonable suggestion. It's ok ;]

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"Bourne senpai won't respond to me, waaah, waaaah."

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1 month isn't enough to allow ratings to settle, it regularly takes several weeks for ratings to settle and then allow people to have games that match their respective skill level. You should be reminded that everyone starts at zero rating. Also the last season was was roughly over 2 months which is fine.

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Alright, two month seasons.

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You also have to consider that SE needs time to actually create rewards. Are you suggesting they do something new every month?

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Combined with your suggestion, they wouldn't need to. Players could compete for previous season's prizes, and only have a new set every few seasons.

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PVP seasons in other games don't just last for a month

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This isn't other games. Other games control their bot population, manage balance correctly, and listen to their PvP audience.

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try and think of something reasonable rather than be cheeky and make seasons unreasonably short and then making everything way more common as a result.

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Things would be way more common with your suggestion as well. Are you being unreasonable?

They could just give the top 100 a voucher that let's them pick from a basket of either the current or previous seasons rewards. That way it encourages people to work hard for it, keeps the rewards pristine but also doesn't completely lock out the old rewards to never be seen again. They'll still be time gated cause of obvious season progression but they won't be lost in the void of time to never see the light of day again. If we want to be even lazier they could make them cost 20 or 30 Wolf Collars. At such a high price it would still take over a year for the average competitor to get just One item. Not everybody would commit to it either, so stuff would still be mostly rare in a sense.

Anyways, those are my Two suggestions. I'd honestly be fine with either or really.
It's floating around somewhere but Yoshida did say at some point in time they were going to 'cycle in' old Feast rewards. Whether that just means doing a recolor every other season or actually bringing back the old rewards is beyond me or anybody else's knowledge, so who knows? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

"Bourne senpai won't respond to me, waaah, waaaah."

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There's no real reason to debate this with you, you seem rather intent on attacking me, so I'll just leave it at that

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Alright, two month seasons.

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2-3 months yes, whatever makes sense to Square Enix and their own patch cycles.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Combined with your suggestion, they wouldn't need to. Players could compete for previous season's prizes, and only have a new set every few seasons.

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Square Enix releases a new reward either with slight modifications or completely new every season. That is how they do things, and with a 2-3 month season which was what they did last time, they wouldn't have to change.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

This isn't other games. Other games control their bot population, manage balance correctly, and listen to their PvP audience.

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So are you suggesting they don't fix PVP and go with what you think is best? Usually games try and center the way it should be rather than around bots.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Things would be way more common with your suggestion as well. Are you being unreasonable?

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As past season rewards become more common through people opting out of current season rewards then the current season reward becomes that much more scarce. You aren't Increasing the the net total of these items more than before as it still only increases by 100 every season per datacenter, like it always has been.

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Originally Posted by Aviars

There's no real reason to debate this with you, you seem rather intent on attacking me, so I'll just leave it at that

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At least I'm attacking *you*, not a completely unrelated poster.

Also as far as "debating this" with me, I'd rather not debate the ethics of Bourne's hair follicles with you tyvm.

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2-3 months yes, whatever makes sense to Square Enix and their own patch cycles.

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Why are we even discussing if we're going to break hypothetical and say "What square wants"? What Square wants is to churn out mindless repetitive content to blithering masses for infinite money, same as anyone else.

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Square Enix releases a new reward either with slight modifications or completely new every season. That is how they do things, and with a 2-3 month season which was what they did last time, they wouldn't have to change.

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So we're in agreement. One week preseason, two month season, able to peruse the entirety of the rewards to that point.

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So are you suggesting they don't fix PVP and go with what you think is best? Usually games try and center the way it should be rather than around bots.

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If you have to ask "Are you suggesting?" to anything, the answer is usually no, and for the kids at home watching, it is indicative of Person A trying to put words into Person B's mouth.

https://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/ajE63q1_700b.jpg

To answer: there's a lot around PvP that needs fixing. That Square hasn't done it means they don't necessarily care what other games do with their competitive modes. And if they don't care what other games do with their competitive modes, "They do X because other competitives do X" is invalid.

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As past season rewards become more common through people opting out of current season rewards then the current season reward becomes that much more scarce. You aren't Increasing the the net total of these items more than before as it still only increases by 100 every season per datacenter, like it always has been.

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Sure, sure. One week preseason, two month season won't change the totality of the items out there, but it will make things accessible to anyone who tries in any season.

Just que up silly gooses. Top 100 isn't hard to get. NOOO, you dont need to que up 24/7 to get top 100 but you do need to have dedication to some extent. All I'm reading from this thread is excuses, excuses and excuses....World of Warcraft have exclusive gear and mounts during their seasons and no1 complains.
Why is it in this MMO community people are complaining because PvP have "exclusive items" especially mounts? Just because "PvE" doesnt have exclusive items??????? Or is it because everyone is used to having items just given to them????

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Why are we even discussing if we're going to break hypothetical and say "What square wants"? What Square wants is to churn out mindless repetitive content to blithering masses for infinite money, same as anyone else.

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Square Enix has been consistent with how often they add content to the game. It's pretty clear that isn't going to change. If you have a problem with that then I suggest you make another thread with your apparent grievance on this particular matter.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

So we're in agreement. One week preseason, two month season, able to peruse the entirety of the rewards to that point.

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2-3 month seasons and I don't care either way about preseasons

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

If you have to ask "Are you suggesting?" to anything, the answer is usually no, and for the kids at home watching, it is indicative of Person A trying to put words into Person B's mouth.


To answer: there's a lot around PvP that needs fixing. That Square hasn't done it means they don't necessarily care what other games do with their competitive modes. And if they don't care what other games do with their competitive modes, "They do X because other competitives do X" is invalid.

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You made the claim that the system should be a certain way because SE doesn't do anything about bots and other issues. I didn't put words in your mouth, it was directly implied that you think that SE will never deal with the problems so you suggest using a flawed system to reflect that. I do want SE to fix the game, but itdoesn't mean we fix the game and then use a system that reflected a broken one.

The way other games approach PVP, and really competitive sports and games in general, don't have excessively short seasons, nor are they excessively long. SE seems to be going with this approach and it's the approach that makes the most sense. The only reason you ever suggested extremely short seasons in the first place was to increase the number of rewards.... in complete disregard to how it would harm the game mode and competition.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Sure, sure. One week preseason, two month season won't change the totality of the items out there, but it will make things accessible to anyone who tries in any season.

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As long as you know it doesn't necessarily make the items as a whole more common, then that's ok. What I suggest is merely removing the time exclusive aspect and not the combined rarity of the rewards.

Edit: I do want to remark that bots are not a issue in ranked Feast. They are more of a problem in Frontline content

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Originally Posted by Razzii

All I'm reading from this thread is excuses, excuses and excuses....

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Shhh...m8, don't you know that engaging in diatribes rather than lifting up our butts to get things done is what we do best here on the official forum? Fall in line man!

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Originally Posted by Aviars

Square Enix has been consistent with how often they add content to the game. It's pretty clear that isn't going to change. If you have a problem with that then I suggest you make another thread with your apparent grievance on this particular matter.

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Uhm...what? You didn't answer my question at all: there's no point to discussing what we are if we do so with the full knowledge that Square reads none of this. Our discussion only holds water if we assume for the sake of argument that implementations would be put in.

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2-3 month seasons and I don't care either way about preseasons

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2 month, no longer.

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You made the claim that the system should be a certain way because SE doesn't do anything about bots and other issues.

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Please, quote my claim. I made no claims, I merely pointed out the logical break in "Other games do X, thats why Square does X."

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I didn't put words in your mouth, it was directly implied that you think that SE will never deal with the problems so you suggest using a flawed system to reflect that.

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Maybe don't read your strawmen into my lips.

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I do want SE to fix the game

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Hey, we're of one mind here.

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The way other games approach PVP, and really competitive sports and games in general, don't have excessively short seasons, nor are they excessively long. SE seems to be going with this approach and it's the approach that makes the most sense. The only reason you ever suggested extremely short seasons in the first place was to increase the number of rewards.... in complete disregard to how it would harm the game mode and competition.

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If the rewards being more common would harm the game mode and competition, then the game mode is poor. Somebody brought up ADS mount and Field Commander's Coat; how many people have either of those? They're still pretty rare.

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As long as you know it doesn't necessarily make the items as a whole more common, then that's ok. What I suggest is merely removing the time exclusive aspect and not the combined rarity of the rewards.

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As long as you understand how stupid time gated exclusives are.

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Edit: I do want to remark that bots are not a issue in ranked Feast. They are more of a problem in Frontline content

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How about win trading? Something else Square never has or will addressed.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Uhm...what? You didn't answer my question at all: there's no point to discussing what we are if we do so with the full knowledge that Square reads none of this. Our discussion only holds water if we assume for the sake of argument that implementations would be put in.

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Our discussion is about The Feast, I'm not here to go on tangents with people about how Square Enix implements changes to their game.By doing that you make it almost impossible to come to agree because you add in tangents about how you would change other things so it must be this way. It'll never end, so I try to not stray off topic.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

2 month, no longer.

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Like I said, Square Enix would probably not increase the number of times they add patches into the game to accommodate your rigidness. The last season lasted about 2 and a half months. I don't think seasons being between 2-3 months is bad thing. You are just being extremely stubborn, I don't know why.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Please, quote my claim. I made no claims, I merely pointed out the logical break in "Other games do X, thats why Square does X."

Maybe don't read your strawmen into my lips.

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When you say Square Enix won't fix bots so it should be a certain flawed system then how is it putting words into your mouth? It doesn't really matter either way, you mostly agree with my solution anyway other than being completely rigid on 2 months for some unknown reason. I'll just leave it at that

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

If the rewards being more common would harm the game mode and competition, then the game mode is poor. Somebody brought up ADS mount and Field Commander's Coat; how many people have either of those? They're still pretty rare.

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Top 100 rewards are a feature of the game mode. Square Enix wants to promote competitive pvp and rewards are a part of competition. There is nothing wrong with that. It doesn't mean though that I don't believe better rewards, that don't involve giving out the top 100 rewards, should be available to regular folk. They should be making new top 100 rewards and new regular rewards for normal players along side each other to act as continueing incentive for compeition and incentive for normal players to continue playing.

The ADS mount and Field Commander set are a result of Square Enix not offering enough incentive to continue playing after they receive the reward. Shatter and Seal Rock were quite active on release, how ever as people get the achievements they stop playing the game mode cause there is no more need to because they got what they wanted and they want to do other content to further progress their character in some way. This creates the issue of players that weren't a part of the rush to not get ques for those game modes and therefore not be able to get those old mounts. It's the same problem with older PVE content. Content like Void Ark wouldn't have people continue playing it if not for the coins, and crystal tower was effectively dead until they added items needed for relic progression.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

As long as you understand how stupid time gated exclusives are.

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I am not against it still, there are plenty of games that do the same thing and there are logical reasons to not make them available after the fact.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

How about win trading? Something else Square never has or will addressed.

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Wintraders have been banned for wintrading. And win trading is not as common as people who don't play ranked feast would like you to believe. I have played since season one of the Feast, and I could count the number of legitimate wintraders on one hand. Take this from someone who has played the game mode a lot and can spot fishy behavior.

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Originally Posted by Crit

put in the effort and you'll realize its not as hard or impossible as you think it is.

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But effort is not enough..if only 100 people from a whole datacenter will get it. You can have 200 people that put in a huge amount of effort, time and are skilled and yet only 100 of them will get it. At the same time some of those in the top 100 just do a lot at the beginning and then stop doing any matches anymore to sit on their position since there is no decay and like other people already wrote you kinda just need enough time...because you might still land before someone with a worse win ratio just because you had enough time..

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Originally Posted by Mutemutt

I would say the main reason for that is that it's the only mode that was explicitly created to be competitive with it's own limited time competitions, hence it features a competitive reward structure.

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How can you call something competitive if there is still win trading, cheating and no rank decay? How can it be truly competitive if there is no max amount of playable matches like TT Tournaments? Right now you will get there if you have enough time at your hand (and yes skill is a factor too) and can still be 100 even if someone else has a way bigger win ratio than you. I know of no competition in the real world where the guy with simply more matches will win instead of the one that won the most. As long as these things are still there I cant just accept this as any kind of e-sports.

My solution:

-Introduce a rank decay so that people cant just sit on their wins all the time or/and
-Introduce a maxium amount of matches and the top will only be those that win the most of them
-Give the mount to the top first but make them achieveable with the new currency for others. This can take some time to get and people might need to still rank high to have a chance but this would at least take some of the limits of and make it more fair.

This will still gave the top 100 the exclusivity of having it first but does not demotivate the rest of the playerbase..this might make the feast alive again because people would now be able to work towards the mount on their own pace and make it not something that took work, time and budget for only a really small amount of people..

its a pretty cool mount. i dont become it cuz i dont play pvp. its my own problem and its fine for me but i also never saw one of the mounts of the other sessions walk on by. maybe give 1000 players on the datacenter the mount. at least i can see sometimes one of it ingame not only on screenshots.

This is what I think needs to happen with Feast Rewards.

1) Make ranking rewards available to an entire account. This will prevent people from clogging up the leaderboards with their alts.

2) Investigate reports of botting/win-trading promptly and remove the rewards of those caught blatantly cheating - There are players who openly brag on Twitch about scamming the system. We cannot realistically have a ranking system that works when people abuse it to this extent and face no repercussions.

3) If you're going to make rewards seasonal AND exclusive (which I fully disagree with), then such seasonal and exclusive rewards should also be obtainable in other ranked features of the game such as Deep Dungeon, Top Frontline Standings, Top Grand Company Standings, Top Free Company Standings and so on.

4) Allow rankings to be top server, not data-center.

5) Allow winning vouchers to be exchanged for any reward. So if you don't really want the chair, you can opt for the Hellhound armor or the Eaglebeak armor instead.

6) After a year or so, allow old rewards to be purchased with Wolf Collars. Raiders worked hard for their savage rewards and mounts, and after a year, the content is incredibly easy and anyone can do it. This is the standard set in the game, like it or not. Why should PVP be any different? Only Ultimate is purposefully kept synched, but people still let others control their accounts and fake their clears .

I wouldn't say all of those need to happen. But you do have good ideas there. I clearly don't agree with all of them but these ideas show how easy it can be for SE to incentivate more players without much effort even. Well, maybe some of those take a good chunk of coding.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

How can you call something competitive if
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You quote me and then immediately misconstrue what I said. I didn't say whether it was actually competitive or not and I don't think it's really important to the point I was making.

And I'm not sure why you think limiting the amount of ranked games one can play would be a good idea. I can't think of any game with a pvp season that has a limit like that, and for good reason; it's always time based from what I can see.

In case you're wondering, I think the best way for SE to get more people to participate in ranked feast would be to offer better rewards through the wolf collar system they only barely just made. I don't think the mount for the top 100 absolutely has to be one of the things offer by the wolf collars though.

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Originally Posted by Mutemutt

In case you're wondering, I think the best way for SE to get more people to participate in ranked feast would be to offer better rewards through the wolf collar system they only barely just made. I don't think the mount for the top 100 absolutely has to be one of the things offer by the wolf collars though.

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Arena system overall is an outdated concept because utterly, they will lost the ability to balance each jobs especially the healer role.
More ideal and easier to access competition under FF14 is likely to be 8 v 8 v 8 ranked frontline match with requirement of premade team only, job specific role: 2 healer 2 tank 4 dps. It is also going to be really hard to win trade under 3 faction system with system randomly matching

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Originally Posted by Aviars

Wintraders have been banned for wintrading. And win trading is not as common as people who don't play ranked feast would like you to believe. I have played since season one of the Feast, and I could count the number of legitimate wintraders on one hand. Take this from someone who has played the game mode a lot and can spot fishy behavior.

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I agree with you on most points man but we both know this isn't true. Especially if we consider the LP WTers before it was removed. I don't know any WTer that got a ban (only the one for hacking)

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Originally Posted by Alleo

But effort is not enough..if only 100 people from a whole datacenter will get it. You can have 200 people that put in a huge amount of effort, time and are skilled and yet only 100 of them will get it.

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This may be a foreign concept to many people in FF14 but not everything is made specifically for you. SE made it top 100 for a reason. They want The Feast to be a competition and the rewards that only the top 100 receive reflect that. Just because you are decently skilled at the game doesn't mean you are also a top 100 player and deserve it, that is the nature of competition. Not everyone gets a medal.

I find it quite strange so many people think they should have a significantly easier option to obtain the same rewards as people who got to the top 100. You basically invalidated the competition. If I could get 1 million dollars in a extremely easy way like a guaranteed lottery compared to creating a successful business, which would you do? Why work your butt off when you can get it for free? This is basically the mentality of the majority of people complaining in this thread and it is sad.

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Originally Posted by Aviars

This may be a foreign concept to many people in FF14 but not everything is made specifically for you. SE made it top 100 for a reason. They want The Feast to be a competition and the rewards that only the top 100 receive reflect that. Just because you are decently skilled at the game doesn't mean you are also a top 100 player and deserve it, that is the nature of competition. Not everyone gets a medal.

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They did it to try and get people into PvP by putting a reward requested buy the casual segment of the player base into a portion of the game many of them didn't play. It does not appear to have worked.

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Originally Posted by Aviars

I find it quite strange so many people think they should have a significantly easier option to obtain the same rewards as people who got to the top 100. You basically invalidated the competition. If I could get 1 million dollars in a extremely easy way like a guaranteed lottery compared to creating a successful business, which would you do? Why work your butt off when you can get it for free? This is basically the mentality of the majority of people complaining in this thread and it is sad.

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I haven't seen anyone here asking for it for free. Most people are making suggestions that lock these mounts behind grinds that take a year or better. Honestly, it sounds like they're suggesting something more like how Veteran Rewards currently work. Now you have to buy those by earning achievements and yet the people who were subscribed long enough under the old system don't have to and can use their points to buy anything else they add.

Personally I have no dog in this race. I exited PvP with the 4.0 changes to the kit and had only dabbled in it previously. Just pointing out a couple of flaws in your statement

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Originally Posted by Keridwyn

They did it to try and get people into PvP by putting a reward requested buy the casual segment of the player base into a portion of the game many of them didn't play. It does not appear to have worked.

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I see this explanation a lot. However it just doesn't hold water in the end. There are many rewards that are available to people that are not top 100 through wolf collars and in past seasons you also received a reward for finishing in a certain tier, which was replaced with wolf collars. There are also many titles and even, wow, mounts that are available through just grinding achievements. In the end it is quite obvious that people in general, just like to complain when they see something that they probably don't have a chance at getting.

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Originally Posted by Keridwyn

I haven't seen anyone here asking for it for free. Most people are making suggestions that lock these mounts behind grinds that take a year or better. Honestly, it sounds like they're suggesting something more like how Veteran Rewards currently work. Now you have to buy those by earning achievements and yet the people who were subscribed long enough under the old system don't have to and can use their points to buy anything else they add.

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Compared to top 100, turning it into grinding achievements might as well make it free. A lot of people even suggest wolf marks.... just no words for that. Anyways, like I said before there are already plenty of achievements that offer rewards like mounts, titles, accessories and minions. Top 100 rewards however were meant for top 100 players, they weren't meant as a general incentive for ALL players to try pvp. they were meant to offer a competitive aspect to the Feast. People should just accept that not everything is made for them nor does everyone deserve it.

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Originally Posted by Aviars

Just because you are decently skilled at the game doesn't mean you are also a top 100 player and deserve it, that is the nature of competition. Not everyone gets a medal.

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First, as I have stated before, I do not feel that the hellhound mounts should be brought back. With that out of the way...

You do know there are people in that ranking that can’t even win 50% of their matches, right??? You keep talking about skill as if it is an ultimate decider and it is not. Yes, a skilled person can get there are stay there easier, but there is nothing that keeps decently skilled people off the leaderboard. Even the other people in the top 100 say it isn’t much of a test of skill!

I understand that your possession of a unique or rare item makes you feel special and you may feel that your right to feel special is being attacked. I get it, I’m a legacy player and people attack our exclusivity too. Everyone should feel that they are special, and I don’t mean the short bus kind.

But in your attacking everyone to try and keep that feeling that you are special by owning a very rare or exclusive item in a video game is you being a butthole. Buttholes aren’t special, everyone already has one of them. There are other ways to defend your exclusivity that don’t involve that behavior.

Ultimately, it’s all up to SE anyway.

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Originally Posted by Aviars

I see this explanation a lot. However it just doesn't hold water in the end. There are many rewards that are available to people that are not top 100 through wolf collars and in past seasons you also received a reward for finishing in a certain tier, which was replaced with wolf collars. There are also many titles and even, wow, mounts that are available through just grinding achievements. In the end it is quite obvious that people in general, just like to complain when they see something that they probably don't have a chance at getting.

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The part you left out was that none of the mounts already on offer were specifically requested by the 'casual' playerbase. Or if there was a thread started requesting warhorses I missed it. The hellhounds though, a lot of people who never PvPed in their life wanted those and the new mount...well that's a story NPC who has fans that don't pvp at all. And honestly how does that mount even remotely fit with the theme? Also those rewards by themselves DO NOT offer a competitive aspect. The competitive aspect is the nature of PvP itself with the rewards merely being the atta boy for top placement.

Not a day goes by that I don't see some of the really invested PvPers asking when the botting and blatent win-trading will be fixed. So how many of those top 100 player did actually get their mounts free? While the majority likely earned it through hard work and effort you cannot deny a portion of them did not, the evidence is on Youtube, Twitter, and Reddit. The legitimate ones, those folks should be recognized 100% somehow, but when you can bot your way to rewards then it has already devalued them more than any amount of people getting them through grindy works.

Also, Wolf Marks? Seriously. No. Not unless they allow us to hold millions of them. Or unless they add a second currency item to buy with the marks at 20k marks a pop and the mounts take something like 1k each of them. The mounts should be work.

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Originally Posted by Istaru

You do know there are people in that ranking that can’t even win 50% of their matches, right??? You keep talking about skill as if it is an ultimate decider and it is not. Yes, a skilled person can get there are stay there easier, but there is nothing that keeps decently skilled people off the leaderboard. Even the other people in the top 100 say it isn’t much of a test of skill!

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Win-rate doesn't mean anything. I have already explained this numerous times in this thread. A 50% winrate in say gold tier does not mean that person is suddenly doing as well as a person with a 50% winrate in diamond. Who do you think is having harder matches? Obviously the diamond player. Square probably see's your type of shallow reasoning a lot which is why they removed win-rates from the leader board.

To make it even more generic, does a kindergardener who gets a A+ suddenly a smarter person than a person in college who gets a B? Absouletely not.

Also lets say a player hits 2500 rating and that is as high as they can go. At that point they are basically winning one game and losing 1 game. The more games they play will LOWER their winrate and they will stay at 2500 rating. does it mean they do not deserve their 2500 rating compared to someone else? No it doesn't.

People who play a lot of games as well, generally get better. They could've had a horrible win rate from the beginning from when they were a worse player, but playing more allowed them to get better at the game and climb. That can translate to a low win-rate that follows high ranked players throughout the whole season.

I can come up with many reasons why a high ranked player would have a low winrate. But generally win-rate doesn't matter. The high ranked you get the harder it is to win and therefore gain points. It's just a simple fact

I hope this made sense to you.

Also, people who say top 100 is easy are speaking for themselves. It may not be hard FOR THEM. They are good enough because it is easy FOR THEM.

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Originally Posted by Keridwyn

The part you left out was that none of the mounts already on offer were specifically requested by the 'casual' playerbase. Or if there was a thread started requesting warhorses I missed it. The hellhounds though, a lot of people who never PvPed in their life wanted those and the new mount...well that's a story NPC who has fans that don't pvp at all. And honestly how does that mount even remotely fit with the theme? Also those rewards by themselves DO NOT offer a competitive aspect. The competitive aspect is the nature of PvP itself with the rewards merely being the atta boy for top placement.

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Does it matter? FF14 players ask and want everything. It honestly doesn't matter. You need to stop feeling entitled to something just because you "asked" for it. That is such shallow reasoning.

Just because you say it doesn't add a competitive aspect doesn't make it true. Competitions offer prizes and rewards as a reason to play your absolute best. If compeitions didn't offer prizes then you would obviously see quality drop. It is just fact.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Keridwyn

Not a day goes by that I don't see some of the really invested PvPers asking when the botting and blatent win-trading will be fixed. So how many of those top 100 player did actually get their mounts free? While the majority likely earned it through hard work and effort you cannot deny a portion of them did not, the evidence is on Youtube, Twitter, and Reddit. The legitimate ones, those folks should be recognized 100% somehow, but when you can bot your way to rewards then it has already devalued them more than any amount of people getting them through grindy works.

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Bots don't perform well enough to get to the top 100, stop trying to act like it does. It is a blatant lie.

Also win-traders have been banned. And as much as people who don't pvp would like you to believe, wintraders are not so common as to be a extreme problem. I can literally count legitimate win-traders on one hand. Take this from someone who has played since season 1.

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Originally Posted by Keridwyn

Also, Wolf Marks? Seriously. No. Not unless they allow us to hold millions of them. Or unless they add a second currency item to buy with the marks at 20k marks a pop and the mounts take something like 1k each of them. The mounts should be work.

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Grinding achievements or anything else shouldn't have access to the same rewards that people who got top 100 get. Plain and simple. It's top 100 or nothing. It should require the same effort and skill period.

If the top 100 got there through sheer skill alone - you'd have absolutely no argument from me. Hell, I'd work to BECOME one, as I have every season.

But they don't all get there through sheer skill, do they? Nope. "Winning" to some people means "what can I do to exploit this for maximum gain?"

Some players, if they feel like they can get away with it, will always choose the path of least resistance. The Ungarmax exploit used in Ultimate Coil showed that perfectly.

My issue with Feast rankings as it stands right now is that some people are getting coveted rewards for abusing the system. And bragging about it. And continuing to earn said rewards season after season.

I can see how it makes you not even want to try. I mean, why bother when you know some no-name healer alt is gonna trade their way to a 99.9% win-rate in the end?

(And this is coming from someone who has one of the rarest items in the game -- given out only to very specific contest winners -- the Gaelicap).

Do I want everyone to have a Gaelicap? I wouldn't mind one bit.

All it took from me was drawing an idea that got accepted by the dev team. It was very much a last-minute drawing and I put CONSIDERABLY more time into another idea which didn't win.

I don't need a digital item made of pixels to make me feel like a special snowflake in or out of the game. It's just a video game. No need to compare it to the Olympics/University degrees or anything else that actually requires a modicum of physical ability or mental prowess.

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Originally Posted by Aviars

A lot of stuff about skill.

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I understood all that before too. The majority of people who place in the top ranks are skilled at what they do.

There are a few people that I am really referring to about the win rate statement. They are not low because they were learning. They are at that rate repeatedly, it is not that they are learning, they just do not win more than they lose. They are there because they grind it out. Grinding isn’t skill.

My point is simply, not everyone in the top 100 got there through skill. We will simply disagree about that fact and its ok.

We can agree on one thing though. I hope you can accept this and we can just stop here because regardless of anything else, this is really the only reason needed.

SE announced that the way to obtain those mounts was by placing a certain rank during those seasons of the Feast.

SE should not change that. Period. SE should honor it, and in my opinion, we should too.

Regardless of anything else, the people with the mount were there when SE said to be there and met the requirements in whatever way they met them.

I think a recolor/rework of some kind like they did with the goobbue is ok with me but releasing those exact mounts isn’t.

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Originally Posted by Aviars

*snip*

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Please point out where I said that you shouldn't get a reward or prizes for being top 100.

Also, please see the PvP forums and multiple other PvPers in this thread pointing out to you that Wintraders are absolutely not getting banned and bots are absolutely an issue. Also go quickly take a browse of Youtube, Reddit, and Twitter. My 'lies' are pretty easily provable as truth and your anecdotal evidence is based on understandable passion to not be wrong.

When you start getting frustrated you start personally attacking people. We don't like it, please stop.

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Originally Posted by Keridwyn

Please point out where I said that you shouldn't get a reward or prizes for being top 100.

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You keep repeating how the casual playerbase requested these mounts, it's obvious that you want these taken away as a unique top 100 reward.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Keridwyn

Also, please see the PvP forums and multiple other PvPers in this thread pointing out to you that Wintraders are absolutely not getting banned and bots are absolutely an issue. Also go quickly take a browse of Youtube, Reddit, and Twitter. My 'lies' are pretty easily provable as truth and your anecdotal evidence is based on understandable passion to not be wrong.

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Like I said, threads made in the pvp forums about wintrading have resulted in bans in both Solo Ranked and LP. It doesn't mean all of them are caught but win-traders are by far not rampant in the top 100 as many would like to claim. I also find it sad that you continue to cite win-trading as a reason to not have top 100 rewards. Should we remove ultimate and savage mounts and titles due to the fact that many people pay and cheat to clear them? I think the obvious answer is no. Stop trying to cite cheating as a reason to get rid of top 100 rewards.

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Originally Posted by Keridwyn

When you start getting frustrated you start personally attacking people. We don't like it, please stop.

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Where did I personally attack you? I think people say this due to the fact I make statements saying that people should have be good enough to get top 100 rewards by being top 100 and then they look at themselves and think they aren't that good and translate that to me saying that they are bad players somehow. It really isn't meant to be a personal attack, please stop trying to say this as a way to deflect.

Anyways due to the fact you failed to respond to my answer about competition, bots and your PVE player entitlement problem, I'll just assume you conceded the point, Thanks

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Originally Posted by Istaru

I understood all that before too. The majority of people who place in the top ranks are skilled at what they do.

There are a few people that I am really referring to about the win rate statement. They are not low because they were learning. They are at that rate repeatedly, it is not that they are learning, they just do not win more than they lose. They are there because they grind it out. Grinding isn’t skill.

My point is simply, not everyone in the top 100 got there through skill. We will simply disagree about that fact and its ok.

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Do you honestly have any experience in Feast or any proof that this is the case? You probably don't so it probably is best we stop talking about it because you obviously want it to be true whether it is or not. You honestly can't point out someone in the top 100 on the leader boards and then tell me someone who wasn't top 100 who was also playing deserves to be in that spot and not them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aviars

Where did I personally attack you? I think people say this due to the fact I make statements saying that people should have be good enough to get top 100 rewards by being top 100 and then they look at themselves and think they aren't that good and translate that to me saying that they are bad players somehow. It really isn't meant to be a personal attack, please stop trying to say this as a way to deflect.

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That’s not why people say you’re attacking them; they say it because you say things like “YOU don’t want to put in the skill and effort” and “YOU are insecure” and “YOU just don’t like how you can’t achieve the same feats as others”. When you start saying “you” to the person you’re responding to and combining it with baseless character assumptions, that is a personal attack. It’s not debating the actual argument being made, but the character behind the person making the argument.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

That’s not why people say you’re attacking them; they say it because you say things like “YOU don’t want to put in the skill and effort” and “YOU are insecure” and “YOU just don’t like how you can’t achieve the same feats as others”. When you start saying “you” to the person you’re responding to and combining it with baseless character assumptions, that is a personal attack. It’s not debating the actual argument being made, but the character behind the person making the argument.

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When you make statements about your intentions of making it widely available you do open yourself up to other people telling you the real reason why you want a certain thing done with the game. The poster I was responding hasn't done this, so I haven't actually done anything close to pointing out whining. You did. And at that point if point out the fact people are whining about how top 100 rewards are too hard to get, what else is there to say? Whining does have a negative connotation and many people in this thread, many people including you are doing it.

Good example of whining. PVP has something top 100 exclusive and PVE doesn't, it shouldn't be that way!! PVE asked for that mount, why don't we get it! It's not fair only 100 people have a chance at this mount!! And many more examples exist.

Again, if pointing out the fact people are whining is a personal attack, well there isn't much I can do about that. It wasn't meant as a personal attack but a statement of fact, it isn't my fault people whine and then get called out for whining, then get subsequently insulted, thanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aviars

Where did I personally attack you? I think people say this due to the fact I make statements saying that people should have be good enough to get top 100 rewards by being top 100 and then they look at themselves and think they aren't that good and translate that to me saying that they are bad players somehow. It really isn't meant to be a personal attack, please stop trying to say this as a way to deflect.

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Where you told me to stop lying when right now there's a thread about a known botter being the top of a sever pvp chart. I also noticed you backed down about bots and focused on my points about win trading. It is still happening and it is still a problem. My point about that was that no, it's not just skill in the top 100.

I DO believe you should still get rewards. I DO advocate for the top 100 getting rewards. I DO NOT advocate them being timed exclusives. If anything they should at very least be in a prize pool that anyone who places in the correct bracket can choose from. Does that make more sense? You want a timed exclusive, make each season have an exclusive trophy and title. That proves who earned what when.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aviars

Again, if pointing out the fact people are whining is a personal attack, well there isn't much I can do about that. It wasn't meant as a personal attack but a statement of fact, it isn't my fault people whine and then get called out for whining, thanks.

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Tell yourself whatever you need to if it helps you sleep at night, but when you sling mud, you’re slinging mud. There’s no way around that. You aren’t pointing out “whining” when you make condescending remarks (“I hope this makes sense to you” or “Unfortunately PvP has that effect on people and makes them feel like they aren’t good enough”) or baseless assumptions about a person’s character with comments like the multitude I already quoted from you in a previous post, and it certainly does not make people want to agree with you nor listen to you (nor do comments like “So-and-so hasn’t answered me yet, so I’ve obviously won!”—because that’s a mature thing to say; good for laughs though).

Considering you don’t know anything about people posting in this thread, you’re just assuming things without any proof—always remember what happens when you ass-u-me. Suggestions like Wolf Collars and Achievement grinding don’t speak of people’s character; they’re just suggestions. People can make suggestions that don’t reflect their actual wants, needs, or desires.

Statements of fact don’t include you putting words in people’s mouths, by the way. It’s not a fact that someone said something if they didn’t actually say it but you said they did. It’s just you putting words in their mouths; most people don’t take kindly to that, and again, it’s certainly not going to help you further your “cause” or any suggestions you make when you talk to people the way you talk to them.

Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have better places for my 20-posts-a-day than continuing in a circular argument with you. I’m sure you’ll think that you’ve “won” the debate, but there is no “debate” going on here; just a bunch of pointless back-and-forth.

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Originally Posted by Aviars

Keep denying that a majority of this thread is whining about how the mount is readily available to everyone. Because that really is all you are doing.

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Not wasting another post on this response but—

I see that I forgot to include that twisting words is also not a statement of fact.

I didn’t say that “the majority” weren’t whining in this thread; actually, I never said anything about denying that whining was going on. I said that you weren’t pointing out “whining” with your condescending remarks and baseless attacks against people that happen to disagree with you—all you’re doing at that point is arguing for the sake of arguing; you can’t point out “whining” for someone who isn’t actually whining. The remarks you have made don’t point out anything, really; they’re just plain old rudeness.

I also said that people can make suggestions without reflecting their wants, needs, or desires. I never said that everyone making suggestions was doing that.

I’d ask for a direct quote quoting where I said that no one was whining/the majority in this thread aren’t whining, but I’ll never get it. Just some condescending remark about how you’re going to tell me what I really said, or how I really feel.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aviars

Do you honestly have any experience in Feast or any proof that this is the case? You probably don't so it probably is best we stop talking about it because you obviously want it to be true whether it is or not. You honestly can't point out someone in the top 100 on the leader boards and then tell me someone who wasn't top 100 who was also playing deserves to be in that spot and not them.

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Do I have experience in the Feast? Yes.

Naming and shaming kinda stops me from posting that data and you know it.

I did not say that certain people don’t deserve to be top 100 stop putting words in my mouth. I only said that certain people are not as highly skilled as you keep saying.

It’s not that they were learning and improved when in every single season they do not show any improvement.

Prove to me that they were highly skilled.

Just to entertain you, I have asked people who have continued to be in top 100 in the Feast themselves about those people I referenced, and to a person they say they weren’t very good back then. If you know people on Aether who play and follow, ask them if all the people there in the top 100 from back then are all skilled, they will tell you there are some people who only got there by grinding. You aren’t on Aether so you don’t know. I may not bother anymore but I still follow what goes on since I have friends who still compete.

You turn everything that everyone says around and twist just do you can say you are right.

What is wrong with you??

I’m not even one of the people threatening your precious and you still have to chase me around barking like a rabid dog.

Just stop already!!

I’m done with you. I do not concede anything to you either.

I don’t concede to talking points to people who are incapable of reason or logic and you have shown yourself to be incapable of both.

I know you will still respond about why you’re right and I’m wrong and you know everything and I know nothing since you have to have the last word and leave the conversation feeling like you “won”.

Have a nice day. I’m done with you and your poor attitude.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Keridwyn

Where you told me to stop lying when right now there's a thread about a known botter being the top of a sever pvp chart. I also noticed you backed down about bots and focused on my points about win trading. It is still happening and it is still a problem. My point about that was that no, it's not just skill in the top 100.

I DO believe you should still get rewards. I DO advocate for the top 100 getting rewards. I DO NOT advocate them being timed exclusives. If anything they should at very least be in a prize pool that anyone who places in the correct bracket can choose from. Does that make more sense? You want a timed exclusive, make each season have an exclusive trophy and title. That proves who earned what when.

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For one thing, we are talking about ranked feast. Bots are a problem in front lines yes. If you are referring to something other than ranked feast you are being very misleading which is it's own problem. Hope you can correct this.

Also to your last point, I already made this suggestion and discussed this. You are actually agreeing with me. It seems as though many people are fighting with me just because that seems to be popular.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have better places for my 20-posts-a-day than continuing in a circular argument with you. I’m sure you’ll think that you’ve “won” the debate, but there is no “debate” going on here; just a bunch of pointless back-and-forth.

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Keep denying that a majority of this thread is whining about how the mount is readily available to everyone. Because that really is all you are doing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Istaru

I did not say that certain people don’t deserve to be top 100 stop putting words in my mouth. I only said that certain people are not as highly skilled as you keep saying.

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This is basically saying one thing and then claiming the exact opposite. If certain people aren't skilled and are in the top 100, then doesn't that mean you think they don't deserve it? You are basically contradicting yourself in the most obvious way possible, I suggest you read your own comment again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Istaru

It’s not that they were learning and improved when in every single season they do not show any improvement.

Prove to me that they were highly skilled.

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I personally say the fact they are in the top 100 proves a high level of skill compared to the rest of the player base participating. That is how PVP works generally, are you implying that many people get lucky more than others? There is no proof of that anywhere.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Istaru

Just to entertain you, I have asked people who have continued to be in top 100 in the Feast themselves and to a person they say they weren’t very good back then. If you know people on Aether who play and follow, ask them if all the people there are skilled, they will tell you there are some people who only got there by grinding. You aren’t on Aether so you don’t know. I may not bother anymore but I still follow what goes on since I have friends who still compete.

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I have a character named Ava Jinsoku on Balmung, you can check the leaderboards. I am aware of the players that play on Aether. Also grinding games can be considered practice, more grinding means more practice. It means they get a bit better and perform to a certain extent that gets them top 100. I'll also say that the people you "talked" to are probably being modest, and are comparing themselves to other players in the top 100, it's all subjective. I don't think you can post a players opinion about themselves and call that proof

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Istaru

You turn everything that everyone says around and twist just do you can say you are right.

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How did I do that exactly?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Istaru

What is wrong with you??

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Now you really aren't being constructive at all. Please

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Istaru

I’m not even one of the people threatening your precious and you still have to chase me around barking like a rabid dog.

Just stop already!!

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I am simply debating your response. You need to calm down.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Istaru

I’m done with you. I do not concede anything to you either.

I don’t concede to talking points to people who are incapable of reason or logic and you have shown yourself to be incapable of both.

I know you will still respond about why you’re right and I’m wrong and you know everything and I know nothing since you have to have the last word and leave the conversation feeling like you “won”.

Have a nice day. I’m done with you and your poor attitude.

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? Well bye. It seems obvious by your contradictions and your "signature" that you yourself have a very high opinion yourself and don't want to admit you were wrong in the forums. Have a nice day