Sorry Yoshi, but if you award the best weapon in the game by winning the lottery...

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Originally Posted by Raim

How many times will you guys keep up these snarky replies, until there is no one left to leave? Disagreements or not you can't deny that the sub counts are going down over time due to people disagreeing on how content is presented. Their opinions are just as valid as yours.

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You do not know if subscription rates are going down nor would you know why. My GUESS would be people are bored and will unsubscribe until SB comes out. No one here is saying opinions aren't valid l. We are saying that leaving won't help to change anything so it's their loss. Besides, no valid opinions were given by the OP, he/she felt the unbridled need to inform everyone they could that they were leaving because they do not like this one change.

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Originally Posted by LuckiGoLucki

You do not know if subscription rates are going down nor would you know why. My GUESS would be people are bored and will unsubscribe until SB comes out. No one here is saying opinions aren't valid l. We are saying that leaving won't help to change anything so it's their loss. Besides, no valid opinions were given by the OP, he/she felt the unbridled need to inform everyone they could that they were leaving because they do not like this one change.

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In OPs defence, that one change represents a huge change in design philosophy. The amount of complaints on the forums are a backlash to a seemingly random break in the reward structure, and I think that OP and quite a few others are scared of what this means for the future of rewards, and their value. You are right that unsubbing does nothing though.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

In OPs defence, that one change represents a huge change in design philosophy.

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I get what your saying but what does this actually change other than raiders crying that a casual might be better geared then them and by doing less work for it. The content can and will continue to be cleared with or without the need for the 280 weapon. Most likely the casuals will never clear things like Alex Savage so whats the worry. I would be more proud in knowing I was able to clear the hardest content of the game then worrying about someone elses gear especially casuals who may never clear it in their lifetime of playing the game. Raiders you are still great players and still top tier and also still accomplished something that probably 75% of the player base never will.

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Originally Posted by Raim

How many times will you guys keep up these snarky replies, until there is no one left to leave? Disagreements or not you can't deny that the sub counts are going down over time due to people disagreeing on how content is presented. Their opinions are just as valid as yours.

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The truth of the matter is, sure people will unsub/leave or whatever but come Stormblood, they'll be back. I truly, truly doubt the few people that are leaving are making a huge impact on SE's funds. Though, you guys are right all this backlash will probably make SE think twice about pulling this sh*t again.

On the other hand, no one KNOWS what the devs are going to do in the future. Everyone is just speculating and causing chaos for no reason. This could have been a "let's see what people think about this" type thing, and now they know. For all we know, they won't ever put in place a different way to get a weapon again besides raid/relic. I thought people wanted more options, but here they are implementing other ways to get a weapon, and people still complain. OP and others like them are literally quitting the game because they think the game is doomed now. In reality, no one knows anything about what they're going to do in SB. So calm down for one second, breathe, and judge the expac when it comes out. If you hate it then, fine, leave. Until then, ya'll are just going bat-shit crazy for nothing.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

While I understand you leaving but why still post on the forums to are is that just a matter of time as well

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SE has said before they need to hear from people. Leaving without saying anything does nothing. So he was right to post about it.

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Originally Posted by caponesavage

I get what your saying but what does this actually change other than raiders crying...

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You obviously don't get what he's saying, since Yoshi invalidated RELIC a mere week after, which is casual content with grind. This decision impacted all tiers of players.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

That\\'s not the reason the OP is quitting at all. Not even remotely close.

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Some of the white knights need to read this post. The uncut version.

Also this is why SWTOR does not have very many subs for a AAA MMO. Players saw all the questionable decisions and lost faith in the dev team.

I fully expect something like this to happen again regardless of the outrage, and if some people really don't like it I don't blame them for leaving.

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Originally Posted by Elany

The truth of the matter is, sure people will unsub/leave or whatever but come Stormblood, they'll be back. I truly, truly doubt the few people that are leaving are making a huge impact on SE's funds. Though, you guys are right all this backlash will probably make SE think twice about pulling this sh*t again.

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I agree with you in so much as that I think people making posts that just say "I am leaving/unsubbing" are nonconstructive. That being said its just as annoying to see posts that actively encourage people to leave and not come back instead of finding a compromise. Nobody is suggesting players or developers should beg and cater to players threatening to leave, but at the same time we should be more vocal than ever about the state of the game even if people think the last few months of the expansion aren't important. The fact is that how players react to Diadem could very well translate into how things in Stormblood are developed.

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Originally Posted by caponesavage

I get what your saying but...

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Originally Posted by NolLacnala

You obviously don't get what he's saying, since Yoshi invalidated RELIC a mere week after, which is casual content with grind. This decision impacted all tiers of players.

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NolLacnala is exactly right, I don't care about who cleared what or who is better than who, but I do care about reward balance and for clearing content and getting its rewards to have meaning. Raiders especially have seen a huge decline in rewards since 2.0, they used to get unique story, unique gear, and the strongest weapon for their (rightly deserving) effort, however in 3.0 this was changed drastically because there was no "savage" story, the gear looked exactly the same as NM gear, and diadem 3.1 basically invalidated all the gear anyway, and the knock on effect was very poor reception to Gordias.

My fear is not people having better weapons than me, my fear is that the devs have set a precident that the raid weapon (and relic weapon) aren't necessarily best and that they can insert BiS weapons into any content they feel like in order to provide a carrot on a stick. My fear is that this will (quite rightly) deter people from raiding as a whole, and that Omega will struggle on arrival, just like Gordias, if not worse, because SE doesn't know how to balance rewards against effort. Then the devs will turn around and go "Hardcore content isn't popular, lets add more casual content", and I'm like "NO, balance your damn rewards correctly and people will do the content!"

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Originally Posted by Elim

Some of the white knights need to read this post. The uncut version.

Also this is why SWTOR does not have very many subs for a AAA MMO. Players saw all the questionable decisions and lost faith in the dev team.

I fully expect something like this to happen again regardless of the outrage, and if some people really don't like it I don't blame them for leaving.

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Yup I'm already starting to do this. I''m fairly confident that SB will be good, but I'm already looking for another game to jump into in the mean time in case I'm wrong. I'm starting to lose faith, and there's only so much that others will take.

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Originally Posted by TaurielKyudo

On the other hand, no one KNOWS what the devs are going to do in the future. Everyone is just speculating and causing chaos for no reason. This could have been a "let's see what people think about this" type thing, and now they know. For all we know, they won't ever put in place a different way to get a weapon again besides raid/relic. I thought people wanted more options, but here they are implementing other ways to get a weapon, and people still complain. OP and others like them are literally quitting the game because they think the game is doomed now. In reality, no one knows anything about what they're going to do in SB. So calm down for one second, breathe, and judge the expac when it comes out. If you hate it then, fine, leave. Until then, ya'll are just going bat-shit crazy for nothing.

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I'm gonna clarify this once and for all. The reason why I'm so upset about this entire situation is because this completely breaks the reward structure in the game. Say whatever you want about "waaah you don't need the weapon to do the content", "it has random stats", "the chances of getting one for your job are so slim", etc. That doesn't change the fact that those weapons are currently the biggest carrot to get in the game and you get them by "winning the lottery". When you give the best reward by being extremely lucky with absolutely no ties to player skill (and the effort put into it is relative depending on said luck, if you got it on your 1st run or after 3 months) that tells me that the entire reward structure in the game is a joke and I shouldn't take it seriously anymore. Regardless of if it's a precedent for the future or not the reward structure IS ALREADY A JOKE, right now, this very minute. (By the way, for those who insist about the raid gear still making raiding worth it, there are jobs like NIN that may not use drops from A11S nor A12S at all now. That means only doing 9 and 10, where you can get carried in a corpse bag even on cross-server pf).

After the release I stopped playing for a few days and waited for the PAX panel to see if there was any new development about it. Was hoping for Yoshi to say that they may be considering adjustments, or that this is part of a bigger plan with more stuff coming soon (like maybe ways to upgrade raid weapons/gear), etc. Instead his response was that everybody should "calm down" and that this is perfectly fine just because it's rare to get it. That response made me feel really insulted for the reasons I mentioned in the former paragraph.

Now I gotta say, with a cooler head my reaction on my original post may have been overblown. As someone at some point in the thread mentioned there's still a lot more to the game and this is just a part of it. But then when I try to do anything I find that I lost a lot of motivation to put the effort.

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Originally Posted by Sicno

snip

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This is my exact sentiment. The i280 weapon doesn't affect me, but the rewards system as a whole does, and it is a cancer that is slowely killing the game IMO. Honestly, any 10 year old with half a brain could structure rewards better.

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Originally Posted by Xerek

Snip

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Except for the part where it doesn't? Having the 280 doesn't invalidate anything at all, and considering the devs admitting the relic being BiS was a mistake(which it wasn't even BiS for all classes at the end of ARR anyway, only some) and the fact relics have always been behind something else throughout the entirety of HW, it's only reasonable to assume that they'd never be BiS, just a relatively easy to get top tier weapon.

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Originally Posted by Elim

Some of the white knights need to read this post. The uncut version.

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For the sake of ...

Could we please ban the term "White Knight" (White Knight/hater/fanboi/toxic, etc ) from the forums?

Just because someone has a different opinion than you, doesn't make him/her automaticly a White Knight/hater/fanboi/toxic, etc . Since you think you're entilted to your opinion everyone else is also. So suck it up, stop trying to belittle other ppls opinion and accept that there are always different points of view. You don't have to agree because that's how really good discussion can start but I guess I hope for to much in this forums ...

Also ppl tend to forget that the forums just reflect the minority of the game. How many active subs may the game have? 500k? more? less? And how many ppl are activly using the forums? 1k? 2k?
As long as the active subs are higher than the usual "doom and damnation" after a patch, we will just get minor changes to calm down the "doom and damnation".
Don't get me wrong I appreaciate ppl that are trying to change things in the game but on the other hand more ppl should think about "It's not what you say, but how you say it.". Maybe than threads like this would remain calm and without bashing other opinions.

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Originally Posted by Tremara

Just because someone has a different opinion than you, doesn't make him/her automaticly a White Knight.

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In every other instance I would agree with you, but I honestly haven't seen ANY post that tells me why i280 in diadem is a positive step. At best the "white knights" don't care about the change because SB is coming soon (not that soon though, I should add), at worst they are actively tearing down complaints because they don't like complaints regardless of how valid they are. These aren't white knights by definition, but it is something just as bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwq24tsXGeI

https://j.gifs.com/X6lkJo.gif

That's how to hadle the ilvl 280 problem.

/thumpsup

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

In every other instance I would agree with you, but I honestly haven't seen ANY post that tells me why i280 in diadem is a positive step. At best the "white knights" don't care about the change because SB is coming soon (not that soon though, I should add), at worst they are actively tearing down complaints because they don't like complaints regardless of how valid they are. These aren't white knights by definition, but it is something just as bad.

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You want to know why I'm not bothered by these i280 weapons? More options to get top tier gear. They wouldn't have been worth the chance if they were any lower. Now we actually have 4 ways to get a top tier weapon instead of just 3: Scrips, Relic, Raid, and now Diadem weapons are also top tier. More options to get top tier gear is only a bad thing for those that want to whine about the fact anyone else can have a top weapon.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

You want to know why I'm not bothered by these i280 weapons? More options to get top tier gear.

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Which is invalidated by it being a lottery system, the chances of you getting one is low enough that it is not even an option in that regard. Honestly its existance and purpose baffles me (it doesn't because it is just a carrot on a stick for diadem, but if thats the only thought that has gone into it, the dev team seriously needs to review their design philosophy)

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Now we actually have 4 ways to get a top tier weapon instead of just 3: Scrips, Relic, Raid, and now Diadem weapons are also top tier

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Actually you had two (Relic and Raid), tomestones have always been a stepping-stone when it comes to gear progression, you get your top tier i270 scripture weapons while progressing through raid, and you use it to beat the raid which gives you a higher tier i275 weapon (and then Anima is its own path alongside). Diadem would be an alternative endgame (which I have dubbed Grind/Skill/RNG) if it had been i275, instead it is better than the other two for no real reason, and has just caused confusion and anger because of it.

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Originally Posted by Sicno

...Then I have absolutely no interest in playing your game. Was a fun trip, but I think all good things come to an end.

Edit:

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https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pr...V=w352-h200-nc

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

In every other instance I would agree with you, but I honestly haven't seen ANY post that tells me why i280 in diadem is a positive step. At best the "white knights" don't care about the change because SB is coming soon (not that soon though, I should add), at worst they are actively tearing down complaints because they don't like complaints regardless of how valid they are. These aren't white knights by definition, but it is something just as bad.

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I edited my post.

It was meant in general - both sides are as bad as they come with bashing.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

This is my exact sentiment. The i280 weapon doesn't affect me, but the rewards system as a whole does, and it is a cancer that is slowely killing the game IMO. Honestly, any 10 year old with half a brain could structure rewards better.

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I get the general concern regarding rewards and their frequent replacements, heavily due to how stats work in this ridiculously vertical/linear progression game. It's like leveling up, in that there's no reason to be playing at level 59, when you could be playing at 60 (you'd never care to look back). This feeling has been known about to happen since ARR launched. I think that initially, the devs didn't want to introduce a gear system that essentially forced players to have to go back to old content to get gear they'd need for current content, similar to how certain "hated" games like XI conducted itself...

Ironically, they obviously went that route to entice/compel people to routinely do old content anyway, be it any reason deemed necessary (e.g. filler activity, help new players, etc). The treadmill suffers because of that. Just like most content they newly introduce, their reward system since the beginning has been half of what it should have been (except half being one possible route, the other being half of a different one). It's like they chose to go vertical progression under the mindset of not forcing players to do old content too much for gear, only to keep that vertical progression and use horizontal progression methods that don't work for vertical (doing old content).

I appreciate what they seem to intend to do with this game, but there's a lot of half assed execution going on. The devs/Yoshi-P tend to have great vision and excellent ideas. The problem is, as I've said many times in the past regarding this sort of topic, that their execution is pathetic. Either problems arise that should have been prevented based on prior content (e.g. stance on win-trading, bots/hacks, hated perspective on methods to acquire stuff - e.g. FATE integration) or they come from content that is new but isn't fully executed properly, adding to the filler and dull limitations that they are often criticized for. I mean, we still apparently have that housing issue of furniture limitations... 200 for an L is kind of sad. Basically, you're playing a sub MMORPG that is being developed with the same execution standards you would expect of an F2P or mobile game. The biggest difference as far as money goes being the polish to what is half-assed executed (e.g. graphics, balance, story, etc).

People need to stop saying that their relic has been invalidated. Your weapon didn't stop glowing and become incapable of killing things.

Why did you bother with the anima weapon in the first place? Did you do it because you enjoyed the quest? Because you really liked the look of the weapon? Or did you really put in 2 years of, "work" so your weapon could be BiS for a whopping 2 or 3 months at the end of the expansion when it's just overkill and Stormblood will make your weapons obsolete in short order anyway?

If you're going to take your ball and go home at the mere thought of someone getting a luckier roll than you, then you just need to stay away from RPGs in general.

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Originally Posted by Drakkaelus

People need to stop saying that their relic has been invalidated. Your weapon didn't stop glowing become incapable of killing things.

Why did you bother with the anima weapon in the first place? Did you do it because you enjoyed the quest? Because you really liked the look of the weapon? Or did you really put in 2 years of, "work" so your weapon could be BiS for a whopping 2 or 3 months at the end of the expansion when it's just overkill and Stormblood will make your weapons obsolete in short order anyway?

If you're going to take your ball and go home at the mere thought of someone getting a luckier roll than you, then you just need to stay away from RPGs in general.

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You're speaking to an audience of players that are shocked at the idea that expansions mean their current gear becomes obsolete. That's an even more depressing state of ignorance to be in than someone that plays this game and is shocked at gear becoming obsolete with a new raid tier.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

You're speaking to an audience of players that are shocked at the idea that expansions mean their current gear becomes obsolete.

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STOP IT ALREADY! This was NEVER about the expansion. Nobody is claiming that current gear should be up-to-date until 7.0. That's not what's being discussed here at all. Please take a moment and actually read the bloody thread.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

You're speaking to an audience of players that are shocked at the idea that expansions mean their current gear becomes obsolete. That's an even more depressing state of ignorance to be in than someone that plays this game and is shocked at gear becoming obsolete with a new raid tier.

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What is ignorant is that you think people don't accept that their gear will be obsolete in Stormblood. Everyone knows and expects that i275 will be levelling gear when stormblood releases. However that isn't for 3 months (which in this game is a long time due to how quickly patches come out). People are less concerned about the fact that gear becomes outdated and more that the devs are reckless about invalidating content. There is a HUGE difference between a gear cycle coming to an end and the devs randomly dishing out BiS rewards just because they don't have faith in content.

What if in 3.1 they put a weapon better than Omega1 in palace of the dead, is that acceptable now? I bet there are a lot of people are now subconciously afraid of that, and that distrust could affect the 4.0 raid scene.

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Originally Posted by Drakkaelus

...Or did you really put in 2 years of, "work" so your weapon could be BiS for a whopping 2 or 3 months at the end of the expansion when it's just overkill and Stormblood will make your weapons obsolete in short order anyway?

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As noted multiple times prior, I did indeed put all the effort into my anima so I would have a BiS weapon from completion to expansion. And I'm not the only one. You need to realize and accept that different people had different motivations for completing their anima and respect that, even if theirs differed from yours.

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Originally Posted by Sicno

STOP IT ALREADY! This was NEVER about the expansion. Nobody is claiming that current gear should be up-to-date until 7.0. That's not what's being discussed here at all. Please take a moment and actually read the bloody thread.

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You may not think that, but it doesn't change the fact that people in the topic are of that level of ignorance just to prove a separate point.

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Originally Posted by St0rmchild

By that token, why would I invest work into Stormblood when there's probably another expansion over the horizon that will invalidate all the work in there ? Hmm ??

At the moment we are in 'endgame' mode -- people have worked for their gears over the various patch cycles, cleared their content and in general are sitting on feelings of satisfaction what they have achieved and obtained through working for it. Raids have been completed, incredible amounts of time, effort and resources have been poured into anima weapons and there's this sense of relief "we've got that all sortted, now we can start ticking off our Heavensward bucket lists while we build up towards the new expansion"

And then comes Diadem. Which, in one shot, for ridiculously low entry/skill/effort requirements, awards (albeit on a slim chance) something better than a population majority has spent the ENTIRE patch cycle working for.

And it mystifies you why people are upset ?

An as an added insult to injury, Yoshi-P ambles in and proclaims it not to be a big deal. The mind absolutely boggles.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

That's kinda flawed logic. Because assuming the patch cycles stay the same. The best weapons won't be in storm blood either there'll be in 4.2.

Oh wait no they won't they'll be in 4.4

Oh wait no they won't theyll be in 5.0

Never ends.

It's funny because people saying ah who cares it'll just be replaced in the expansion are basically saying the exact same thing as most of the player Base have been saying since 2.0 when it comes to raiding. Who cares there'll just be better stuff next patch....

And thus most of the player Base don't bother raiding because it's worthless

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And so on. I also took note of the problem you're trying to express in an above reply, but did so without needing to be appalled at the idea of gear becoming obsolete (especially in the face of an expansion or any final content patch). People taking the expansions situation as a means of proving a point are of a level of ignorance that I intend to ridicule. They hurt the core argument far more than they help it.

I think having at least two games to jump between is always a good idea. I'm playing WoW right now and I'm having a great time. I hope Strormblood will give me that as well since I'm only gonna pay one subscription based game at a time, but a lot of the latest decisions that where made for FFXIV leave me a bit wary.
I say I'm only going to pay one at a time but I actually thought about getting two this month, because I thought maybe Diadem would be more that I'd expected. I'm glad I didn't buy a second one.
None of the MMOs I've played up untill now where completely perfect, how could they be with everyone having different opinions on the definition of perfect (the best of FFXIV, WoW and GW2 combined), so I've made the decision that I'll just play the one that has the least negatives at the time and the most fun potential. Or is bringing out a new expansion.

But I actually miss looking my character(s). So I know I have that to look forward to at least.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

What if in 3.1 they put a weapon better than Omega1 in palace of the dead, is that acceptable now? I bet there are a lot of people are now subconciously afraid of that, and that distrust could affect the 4.0 raid scene.

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Having more ways to gear up jobs is always a plus. I would be quite pleased if this was another avenue to get a top tier weapon, equivalent ilvl or otherwise. I have 14 jobs to keep up to date!

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

You may not think that, but it doesn't change the fact that people in the topic are of that level of ignorance just to prove a separate point.

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...The comments you're quoting are a response to another comment with flawed logic:

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Originally Posted by Krokov

Don't you think the best weapons in the game that are better than what we have now will be coming in Stormblood? My opinion you are quitting over ridiculous reason when better stuff will be released in the expansion.

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And what they state on their comments are examples to show that person why that logic is flawed. It's not what they believe themselves. You have shown that you totally lack reading comprehension.



Edit: on a side note, I hate getting into these arguments where you stop talking about the topic and instead argue about people not knowing how to formulate an argument, derailing or not understanding what's actually being discussed. Discussing about discussing. Hope this is the end of it.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Having more ways to gear up jobs is always a plus. I would be quite pleased if this was another avenue to get a top tier weapon, equivalent ilvl or otherwise. I have 14 jobs to keep up to date!

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I don't think you quite read my post or understood it. I am all for more ways to gear up jobs, but you can't just throw BiS weapons into any old content, the content needs to be equivilent in the EFFORT to beat it. While I don't agree that a lottery system is the same amount of effort as savage, I will concede that the weapons are as difficult to get. I did say in my post that the diadem weapons would have been a success at i275, but the devs have not proven to me that they provide more of a progression and difficulty curve to obtain than savage or relic, that just isn't how RNG works, and putting this on the community after they have already overcome the challenges of the other two types of endgame is insulting to say the least.

To clarify even more, I agree that more ways to gear up jobs is a good thing, but balance and care must be taken, otherwise you end up with less ways to gear jobs because you invalidate and make content obsolete.

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Originally Posted by Nihility

The only thing that bothers me about it personally is it seems like such a poor design decision just in like every way.

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This is where we fundamentally disagree. I'd actually challenge you to do it better. Your current proposal failed the goal marker of insuring that the raid base feels a means of progression, as well as failed in properly baiting them into the content hard enough to make it worth use within the limited 3 month window.

This wasn't poorly thought out. The fact that you propose such betrays a lack of first-hand experience in development. Believe me, they're thinking about it constantly. What this was, was heavy-handed. And it's fair to be critical of that point. Calling it anything along the lines of lazy, however, makes the argument guilty of the very accusation it asserts.

Sinco, it's frustrating that you continually assert a point that is no longer valid.

Your assertion that there is a set standard for all items of value in this game is false on multiple levels. Try to follow me here, I will try to explain it again for you:

1. Items of statistical value are always on a dealthclock. (Meaning they continually degrade in value as powercreep grows)
2. Items on a time/effort value scale (your presumed Standard.) Have always had BOTH statistical value and have also had glamour value (They are unique for quite some time.)
3. Items without Statistical Value, (Glamour Items) have had crafted and/or RNG systems attached to their attainment.
4. There has never been an item of purely statistical value without Glamour Value.

Therefore, this situation has no precedent. We have an item set of no lingering value being presented to us that is of dominant demand purely statistically, which has never been done before. Therefore, there is no standard of attainment. The basis in which you apply your pattern is invalid as only half the value equation is present - and other items that have possessed the other half the the equation (and are debatable as more valuable as a result) DO have a precedent of being RNG based and relatively easy to obtain because of which.

If anything, it follows the standard of items of one value, absent of the other (Same as Glamour items, essentially.) except Glamour items have longer-lasting value. Sorry, but your particular argument just does not hold weight with me. It's logic is flawed. There are other augments here that make a better case.

For references sake, when I say top tier gear, I don't necessarily mean the absolute highest ilvl possible. If that was what I meant, I'd refer to it as BiS. For me, top tier gear is simply gear that is very close to, if not necessarily, the best, which in this case would be i270+. That would be why I included scrip weapons, because augmented their one of the best weapons you can have. I think some i270 are even better than their raid counterpart as well, but that's what I want to see.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

However that isn't for 3 months (which in this game is a long time due to how quickly patches come out).

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Alex Creator is 6 month old. That's the exact same time between each previous Alex tier. So yes, you raid weapon has a 6-month lifetime, it's not a big deal. And Anima owners can't really complain about fairness when they only had to do very casual content and were rewarded with a very good weapon at every step of the quest.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

What if in 3.1 they put a weapon better than Omega1 in palace of the dead, is that acceptable now?

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Yes, it is. In fact, I really hope it will be, to make something else than Omega1 a "relevant content". Put the best weapons in Deep Dungeon, Diadem and Eureka, put the best accessories in Lakshmi EX and Susanoo EX, and put the best armors in Omega. Different content for different reward.

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Originally Posted by Sicno

TFW the head behind the entire game is totally clueless about how stats work.

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you can put what ever stats you want on the anima so you can make it your bis if you really knew what you were doing

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sicno

...The comments you're quoting are a response to another comment with flawed logic:



And what they state on their comments are examples to show that person why that logic is flawed. It's not what they believe themselves. You have shown that you totally lack reading comprehension.



Edit: on a side note, I hate getting into these arguments where you stop talking about the topic and instead argue about people not knowing how to formulate an argument, derailing or not understanding what's actually being discussed. Discussing about discussing. Hope this is the end of it.

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It's because you take insult from what is truly harmless. I'm going to assume that you're new to MMORPGs or the concept of progression based expansion packs. It'd honestly be the only logical way for someone to not be considered a drama queen regarding this topic. What Krokov said is, ideally, how you should be looking at the matter in this specific case. If the idea of Diadem providing the rewards it does, at the end of an expansion, is what sets you off... I'd argue you're not in the right state of mind for this topic that folks like me advocate for (your core message).

Your argument may not be about the expansion, but your feelings on the matter derive from decisions that center around the fact the expansion influenced it. Hell, I could even argue that the expansion is merely the tip of the iceberg, and that the decision was made because of the core philosophy of how they handle upgrades is in this game (i.e. part of your core message). This is not a new structure to the game. You don't have to be happy about it, but it is how it is. The more you rile up about something specific that happens, the more you lose focus on the main problem, hence why the devs won't learn. It's unfortunate, but topics like this and many of the people in it further prove how inevitable it is that things will not change for a long time. Your intent might be in the right area, but your methods/messages are not. It's like wanting to stop an ant problem by killing the ones you see, rather than going for the source.

Obviously, this means that the opposition, folks that don't see a problem at all with the current reward system, are going to be problematic to your endeavors. At that point, it comes down to whether or not the game really is for you. If you really are going to quit, then that is the right decision for you. The more expected you are to not stand your ground on what matters to you (logically speaking), the less valid your arguments are. Knee-jerk reactions to something you don't like is typical of basic illogical complaints (even if few are valid and logical). Pointing out the Diadem weapons does practically nothing for your message. It's about timing and the way you would choose to use this case to support your argument. Just because people may support your message, doesn't mean your message is as strong as you think it is, as at the end of the day, the devs are the ones who need to understand it. Clearly, they either don't or it's not a matter that goes along with what they want for the game (be it because they think/know people like how things flow now or because they are standing their ground). So again, do what is right for you.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

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Your blowing this out of proportion and are being paranoid. the 280 weapon is bait on a hook, and no glamors nor anything that's not advancing your progression in some way weather that's better gear than what you have now or something that can make you a lot of money will keep people doing the content those people have already farmed it to hell and back and are prob never gonna touch it again will cause people to do this content. its balanced and weaker than the relic overall by basically being another version of mega catpot you need to win the lottery. while everything to get the relic is non rng reliant and its know exactly what you need the only two rng elements to the relic the first was nerfed and can be done in hour or so and the other doesn't stop you from progressing it it just might save you an umbrite or three at the end of that long grind you are rewarded with one of the best weapons in the game currently and might be better and in most cases is better than the raid alternative.

In short the raid weapon and relic are practical to obtain you do the thing you get the item in terms of balance they are stronger and considering you have less than 100 days to win that lottery and the fact that most people will just burn out on the content the weapon effectively doesn't exist and just serves as bait to get people to bite on the overall package of the content

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Originally Posted by Krokov

Don't you think the best weapons in the game that are better than what we have now will be coming in Stormblood? My opinion you are quitting over ridiculous reason when better stuff will be released in the expansion.

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For god sake please stop with such garbage answer. With that logic, just say "No need to play StormBlood there will be the 5.0 with other content, better gear and new mount/minion!".

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Originally Posted by stanrir

you can put what ever stats you want on the anima so you can make it your bis if you really knew what you were doing

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No. No you can't. Given the DPS increase on the i280s, it's almost as good as the i275 without substats at all. Then, given the i280s get about 100 more substat points then the i275s, even with a random shotgun approach almost every i280 is still going to be better then an anima, even with customized stats.