Stupid reason to report someone

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Originally Posted by Dsync

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No, you can't easily switch the 'party finder' argument around. What is easy however is to understand the reason why you can't: the requirements to queue in duty finder are just level and/or item level, whereas the requirements to join a party finder group can be whatever you want them to be, from learning/practice to all the way up to perfect skill or even parsing competition. So if you only expect level-ilevel then duty finder is the tool. If you expect anything else then party finder is the tool: make sure you explain your requirements properly.

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Originally Posted by Erik501

No, you can't easily switch the 'party finder' argument around. What is easy however is to understand the reason why you can't: the requirements to queue in duty finder are just level and/or item level, whereas the requirements to join a party finder group can be whatever you want them to be, from learning/practice to all the way up to perfect skill or even parsing competition. So if you only expect level-ilevel then duty finder is the tool. If you expect anything else then party finder is the tool: make sure you explain your requirements properly.

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Yes you can and I just did. If you want to be lazy, use the Party Finder.

"looking for people who don't care about how well each other perform. Healer who won't DPS welcome"

From your own post, you're saying that people who try are expected to put up with those who don't. No. Don't expect anyone to put up with that. You're expecting people to put up with a lazy attitude.

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Originally Posted by Dsync

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Since I just said literally that "the requirements to join a party finder group can be whatever you want them to be", your example fits perfectly within my definition because you would be asking for something especific which is not merely defined by level-ilevel, so the fact remains the same: the only requirement to queue in duty finder is level-ilevel. So, thanks for proving me right.

However it would be fine if you just tried to answer to what I am actually saying if you think you have a valid point rather than trying to play the straw-man tactic. I play for fun, and I find it fun to push myself to play to the best of my abilities. What I don't find fun, however, is having someone in the party whining and moaning because the healer is only healing and not doing DPS, the mage is an ice mage, the bard is not singing the most optimal song or whatever you want to whine and moan about. As I said before, offering advise is perfectly fine, I welcome it when it comes and try to learn form it. Whining and moaning about the performance of the others, however, is not fun, at least for me, so if that's what you like to do, fine, use the party finder and have a good time.

Yeah i will just tag in PF to wait way more time than i could possibly wait in DF.
And doing a PF don't proves you're gonna play we decent players as well.

Im not enjoying playing in DF because most of people just want a carry and that's a pain. But i have to do those daily DF things because SE don't think about another way to get your weekly tomes.
Those thing will never change (weekly cap in a single way and Healers that have to DPS).

Im enjoying the game and that's why im still playing it. But im sick to run the two exact same dungeons during months and face lazy people that wants a carry.
I will never understand people going into DF just to chill and enjoy the run, wanna enjoy the run ? Tag with friends and enjoy yourself.

Most DF users wants fast clears to do something else after that.

A 30/40min run is a pain if there is no newcomer into this dungeon. Why would you ever take 30 min per day to do something over and over again you can do it in 10min ?

Just glad to see that SE mentionned the fact i can kick a player from my party if his playstyle bothers me.

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Originally Posted by Erik501

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And then you have a choice. Do you stick with the healer, or the other person complaining. A vote kick can be initiated by either party. It then becomes the collective choice on what happens. If you are vote-kicked for being lazy then that is the choice the group made. If you are vote kicked for causing drama, then that, once again, is the choice the group made. You do not have 100% right to a group's time if they don't want you.

The OP makes an active choice to not damage. They expect others to put up with that. You play for fun, like others do. If your idea of fun conflicts with the overriding feeling of what "fun" is to the majority of your current group, then they have the right to remove you. Personally, I just eat the 30 minutes rather than cause drama in a group. Taking the active choice that I'm not willing to carry people who can't be bothered. Though people who come complaining that they were kicked because people didn't want them (though this thread was more about OP getting reported for 'allegedly' doing no damage, though attaching that they "told off" the other player as an afterthought, like that couldn't have had anything to do with it ) might want to self-reflect on why they were kicked.

Your idea of fun is less important than the group choice. If it doesn't match then being kicked is a possibility, and 'play style' has been shown to be an acceptable reason to remove someone, even in DF where we have people claiming that you can play however badly you like.

If you cause drama in DF, expect a kick (or people to leave)
If you play lazily, expect a kick (or people to leave)

There are people who are uncomfortable doing damage, and most can appreciate that. However, making it an active choice to do less than others, then complaining because people will not put up with it, even in DF, is spoilt. Expecting one group of players to use PF because they're unhappy with lazy players, but not the other group who are being lazy, is silly.

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Originally Posted by Dsync

There are people who are uncomfortable doing damage, and most can appreciate that. However, making it an active choice to do less than others, then complaining because people will not put up with it, even in DF, is spoilt. Expecting one group of players to use PF because they're unhappy with lazy players, but not the other group who is being lazy, is silly.

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You're my hero.

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Originally Posted by Dsync

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Thank you, those are some very valid points and we finally agree on something. As I said, I play for fun, and if a run in duty finder stops being fun for whatever reason I just leave. I don't even bother starting a vote-kick, because you are absolutely right: I don't have 100% right to a groups time, nobody does, and the fact that I am not having fun at any given point does not mean that the other people are not having fun either. They might be in fact. So I leave, do something else during 30 minutes and then queue again. No drama at all.

I have stepped in to make you realize what duty finder is and what you can expect from it. That does not mean that I support the OP in any way, shape or form. He probably was reported for being agressive in his answer, and if that was the case then he deserved it. Had I been the tank in his party, however, we would have ended the guildhest no problem, no complaints from anyone and no drama whatsoever. That is the point. Most of the time when a run in duty finder ends in a failure or with someone leaving or vote-kicked it is not because someone is performing poorly, but because someone else is being a dick about that performance.

While I am definitely chill about it and aren't going to kick up a fuss, I know there's a portion of players that if you do even 1 DPS less than what your job can output in front of them, you will be named, shamed, and ridiculed, until you feel you have to quit the game. There are players at both ends of the spectrum, and everywhere in between, and you have to decide as a group what's best. In 4 man duties, if that means one other person agrees with you, the person you want kicked is out. That's fine, it's numbers. But I do think some players need to be more lenient to those who are struggling. For those who just want a carry, while I'm too pacifist to kick up a stink about it (despite my other posts on this forum suggesting otherwise), I do agree that something should be done about them. But how can you tell the difference between someone who is struggling to the max (say for example they're struggling to the point they don't know what Cleric Stance is, and levelled AST as their only healer and therefore don't have it) vs someone who is just after a carry, without talking to them first?

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Originally Posted by Myrhn

I think everyone forget the main reason healer have damage abilities, that is to do the MSQ and quest in general.

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Having played WHM for awhile now. (L59 and still have no left Ish gard yet) I'm getting bored of the lack of dps options. I'd like something more than just stone and aero :U (if there's more in 50+job quests I've not gotten to them yet. Want to complete all the Ex Primals synched)

Don't get me wrong. I love the support role of healing but at times I feel it's kind of middle of the road with healing and dps. Although stance swapping is a lot of fun

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Originally Posted by Train88

I got reported because I didn't do damage, as a healer.

I do not dps as a healer. It is a choice I make.

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Anyone claiming healers shouldn't DPS has obviously never seen a good healer dish out the pain. If I'm running an ex roulette on my BLM the one job that routinely makes me feel impotent on large pulls is a better geared WHM, Holy is OP as hell. If I'm tanking then nothing makes me grin wider then, you guessed it, a WHM who lets rip with Holy right off the bat. Not only that but from what I can tell WHM isn't even the hardest hitting healer, that honour goes to SCH but as the damage is more subtle it's less noticable. Healer damage is huge, not quite up to par with a good DPS class but not that far off and having a good healer is like having an extra DPS so just standing around with your thumb up your ass isn't really pulling your weight. Just look at the potencies if you're still in doubt

Fire II potency is 100
Flare potency is 260 but it uses all MP so can't be spammed.
Holy potency is 200, it also stuns all the mobs and can be spammed.

I know that's not taking into account astral fire buff but c'mon, how can anybody justify doing nothing when they can easily contribute so much?

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Originally Posted by Watachy

If you can you DPS, you have to.

The game has been designed this way, i wouldn't mind players only healing if they were way more non-avoidable damages.

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Well, as the main healer of my static, I CAN dps, and I CAN simply assume my co-healer will pick up my slack where and when I'm not healing, but I can also get my tank and my party killed that way pretty easily. So yes, I can, but do I have to? No. And there's not a single situation in game where I have to. Which is why I'm happy to do so, but will default to my main role for the sake of party success no matter what. I got nothing to prove. Sure, that's a raiding situation, but I used that merely to throw a wrench into the logic of "if you can, you have to". If I can, I will, but priority #1 is keeping my party alive and well. Period.

Also, I keep seeing so many extreme cases here. People saying "if the healer doesn't need to heal, they're just standing/jumping/emoting around and that's wrong". Yes, it IS wrong, but don't assume every healer will do that. Bad/lazy/selfish players will do that, yes, and they'll do it even if they aren't a healer.

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Originally Posted by Watachy

If you can you DPS, you have to.

The game has been designed this way, i wouldn't mind players only healing if they were way more non-avoidable damages.

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Well as someone who plays PLD, WHM and SCH, and who's partner plays WHM exclusively, I'll take that comment about DPSing and throw in;

"If you can dodge an AoE, you have to."

The game has been designed this way. I wouldn't mind damage dealers needing to be healed if only they'd stop standing in stupid (aka avoidable damage) and allow me a little time to throw in some offense.

::sweet smile::

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

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You seem pretty extreme to me aswell, defending the position that a healer absolutly doesnt have to DPS because their main job is healing - and yet you should be aware of the fact that most dungeons, trials and even raids have downtimes when absolutly no healing at all is required, making the healer pretty much useless in that moment (except they're a handsome male elezen, then they're eye-candy, but thats a rare case).

Just doing the very bare minimum of what is required is a pretty shitty attitude in general. If you activly choose not to dps as a healer, regardless of circumstances (and if someone like the OP or to an extend yourself are making statments like "As a healer I only heal, period" thats pretty much that) thats just bad behaviour and playstyle (and again: also not what the game tells you about how to play as a healingclass. The whole conjurer-questline is "its wrong to use only your healing spells!" - and apparently healers are getting through MQS and stuff without refusing to heal, why cant you extend that to dungeons?).
Imagine you're working in an office with a coffeemaschine, you drink that coffee but never cook fresh one - because your contract doesnt says that you have to, you're only getting paid to push papers around. Can they fire you? No. Will you create a hostile atmosphere towards yourself? Hell yes. Do you deserve that? Absolutly. You made your choice not to be a decent part of the team.

For the argument of "dungeons arent designed with healer-dps in mind": most dungeons can easly be cleared with only one dps; you can even solo most dungeons (yes, even synched, I remember those videos from 2 years ago or so: a warrior doing WP by himself when it was still somewhat current content) - that doesnt make it okay for one dps to just sit on their bum or only auto-attack and be like "well, you dont need me to do anything anyways, right? You can clear this without me"

No one here, I believe, has a problem with a healer not feeling comfortable to dps. But at least I have a problem with people defending the point of view "You dont have to dps, you can just be lazy, no need to improve yourself, dont worry about it!" because that actually encourages bad playstyle.

Stealth lazy healer thread for the billionth time.

Doing dps in downtime is part of the design. Get into it, get over it, or get out.

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Originally Posted by ckc22

Stealth lazy healer thread for the billionth time.

Doing dps in downtime is part of the design. Get into it, get over it, or get out.

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Actually healer dps was never taken into consideration in the designs and tuning for the majority of instances.

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Originally Posted by DaikiKiyoshi

Actually healer dps was never taken into consideration in the designs and tuning for the majority of instances.

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Said content can be done with both DPS afk as well, what with the lack of enrage timers. But, most people wouldn't like that, would they?

If you are present, you should do what you can to contribute to killing stuff faster. Casting a heal every 7 GCDs and doing nothing in between is pure laziness.

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Originally Posted by CGMidlander

Said content can be done with both DPS afk as well, what with the lack of enrage timers. But, most people wouldn't like that, would they?

If you are present, you should do what you can to contribute to killing stuff faster. Casting a heal every 7 GCDs and doing nothing in between is pure laziness.

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Damage dealers dps isn't what's being discussed here though. It's healer dps. Related topics? Perhaps. But not the one we are currently on. And yours is a flawed comparison anyway. Damage dealers are supposed to do damage period. Healers are healers first and damage dealers second. This means as long as they heal everyone they are doing their job. Certainly not to your standards, but to the average standards of the entire community they are doing fine.

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Originally Posted by DaikiKiyoshi

This means as long as they heal everyone they are doing their job. Certainly not to your standards, but to the average standards of the entire community they are doing fine.

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Again, that's only a technicality. People of that description are still lazy.

A healer doesn't have to do massive DPS to help. Even a modest amount is better than nothing. (Which, is what you're trying to defend here.)

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Originally Posted by DaikiKiyoshi

Actually healer dps was never taken into consideration in the designs and tuning for the majority of instances.

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They didn't say it was the intended design for instances. Their post more says "design of the role", at least to me anyway. If it wasn't an intended design than why is healing so light, and healers are given spells like Holy/Gravity?

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

They didn't say it was the intended design for instances. Their post more says "design of the role", at least to me anyway. If it wasn't an intended design than why is healing so light, and healers are given spells like Holy/Gravity?

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Healing is not light in the content as designed. But the content was not designed to be overgeared the way it is. The item level and level sync are completely insufficient to the task. All the comments from people in this topic about not needing heals in dungeons are based on dungeons where you are completely overgeared, sync'd or not. The original intent of level sync was to maintain not just the challenge but the three roles of the trinity in older content. As we can all see from running older content that is not what happens.

I'm also a bit ticked off at the usual MOAR DPS crowd and their dismissive view of healers. Next time you need a heal and I'm your white mage, perhaps I should pause and ask if you need my healing arts now?

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

::sweet smile::

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Every DPS healer thread ever agrees with you? DPS if people don't need healing... don't know where you're getting the idea that you're expected to put out more damage than a DPS with holy spam if they're standing in everything. Nobody is saying anything like that at all >.>

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Originally Posted by Greedalox

Every DPS healer thread ever agrees with you? DPS if people don't need healing... don't know where you're getting the idea that you're expected to put out more damage than a DPS with holy spam if they're standing in everything. Nobody is saying anything like that at all >.>

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Hmmm... Did I mention holy spam? No, I talked about DDs not standing in stupid since a lot of healer time can be consumed by healing avoidable damage. If players would actually avoid such damage, healers would have more time to use their attacks. I'm not sure why you ask "Every DPS healer thread ever agrees with you?", nor why you think I said that healers should out DPS damage dealers. I made no statement about either of those things at all. I think maybe you're trying to argue with me about something someone else said.

No where have I said that healers should not try to dps if they can, which is exactly the message of the Hall of Novices, it re-emphasizes again and again that the healer's 1st responsibility is healing and they can take the opportunity to do some damage - IF - circumstances allow. But the only reason this discussion persists is because of numerous people whining that such and such a healer was lazy because they did not DPS. Stop insulting other players and demanding that they play your way. Sure most decent healers will try to find some time to help kill things, but it's not mandatory and people should stop acting like it is.

I think my first post in this stupidity stated that the healer's role is to heal, and that any DPS they can contribute is a bonus, but it's not mandatory and people should stop making that demand of healers. What is there in that statement to argue with?

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Zoop

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I used Holy Spam as an example of healer dps because you said you play White Mage. Healer DPS is the whole idea behind the thread so I don't know why you're making it sound so abstract that I mentioned it.

The post I also quoted with the -Sweet Smile- you mentioned that maybe healers could DPS more if DPS stopped taking unnecessary damage (Which you just reaffirmed in the post above), but my entire reply was dedicated to telling you that you're barking up the wrong tree because nobody I've read yet in the 80+ pages of Healer DPS threads has remotely stated that there's expectations for you to maintain Holy Spam (Read as Healer DPS) if your team is unable to avoid unnecessary damage.

Nobody expects a healer to DPS if healing needs to be done.

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Originally Posted by Greedalox

I used Holy Spam as an example of healer dps because you said you play White Mage. Healer DPS is the whole idea behind the thread so I don't know why you're making it sound so abstract that I mentioned it.

The post I also quoted with the -Sweet Smile- you mentioned that maybe healers could DPS more if DPS stopped taking unnecessary damage (Which you just reaffirmed in the post above), but my entire reply was dedicated to telling you that you're barking up the wrong tree because nobody I've read yet in the 80+ pages of Healer DPS threads has remotely stated that there's expectations for you to maintain Holy Spam (Read as Healer DPS) if your team is unable to avoid unnecessary damage.

Nobody expects a healer to DPS if healing needs to be done.

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Again, I didn't talk at all about Holy Spam. Stone 3 is quite nice for doing some decent damage, Holy Spam is nice in an AoE situation, but hardly the primary DPS tool for a WHM. You're completely re framing the discussion in order to try to invalidate what has been said. If anyone is barking up the wrong tree, it would be you my friend. Your final statement again stresses Holy Spam, which I haven't talked about, you may see that as the only thing a WHM can do beyond healing, but fortunately most WHM do not.

And again I will say it;

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I talked about DDs not standing in stupid since a lot of healer time can be consumed by healing avoidable damage. If players would actually avoid such damage, healers would have more time to use their attacks.

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The healer's role is to heal, and that any DPS they can contribute is a bonus, but it's not mandatory and people should stop making that demand of healers. What is there in that statement to argue with?

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Again, I didn't talk at all about Holy Spam. Stone 3 is quite nice for doing some decent damage, Holy Spam is nice in an AoE situation, but hardly the primary DPS tool for a WHM. You're completely re framing the discussion in order to try to invalidate what has been said. If anyone is barking up the wrong tree, it would be you my friend. Your final statement again stresses Holy Spam, which I haven't talked about, you may see that as the only thing a WHM can do beyond healing, but fortunately most WHM do not.

And again I will say it;

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You're really difficult to argue with because you're avoiding the entire point. I said Holy Spam simply as reference to you saying you played WHM. It's not like I'm pretending Stone 3, SCH or AST don't exist. It was just an example (Plus Holy can easily be most of a Healers DPS in a dungeon so saying it isn't primary is kinda silly). As for your reframing comment, let me put it into perspective before you say "I didn't say nothin' about holy spam". I'm saying ALL healers have the tools to DPS and Heal in dungeons, but Nobody expects a healer to DPS if healing needs to be done.

I was replying to a singular post of yours in the first place and my issue with THAT post in which you spoke about Healers maybe actually having a chance to DPS if DPS didn't take damage. That's my issue, not your other posts your acting like I have issue with.

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Originally Posted by Settiesama

doing 1k dmg while others are doing 2k+ is a carry as the 1ker obviously isn't pulling their weight

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In some cases that would be true. In other cases it's not. It depends on the duty.

If the duty requires that a pair of damage dealers collectively contribute 3K dmg in order to clear a DPS check, and one of them is doing 1K while another does 2K, then yes, that is a carry.

On the other hand, if a duty requires 2K total between both of them, and one is doing 1K while another does 2K, that's not a carry. The 1K damage dealer is providing their full share of the DPS that's needed for that run. That fact doesn't change just because the other is doing more than is needed.

The determining factor in whether you're pulling your weight or not is: if everybody were doing equally well / equally poorly to what you're doing, would that result in a clear or a wipe? If it would result in a clear (even a slow clear) then you're doing your fair share of clearing that run.


Note: That does not answer whether or not you're doing your job well. Many duties are easy enough they don't really require anybody to be doing well, especially if they're over-geared. But that's a separate question from whether you're doing your fair share or being carried. Being adequate and being good aren't always the same thing.

Honestly being main healer since 1.0 and kept with it when the game changed to 2.0 onward I feel healer DPS is awesome.

For me it isn't about running the content as fast as possible it is just...I want to do everything I can to help and support the team I get when I do content.

I have the power to heal and I have the power to DPS and I feel if I have the skill to do it then using both is how I best contribute. I have the mindset where if I can do something better I will always do it because why wouldn't I want to do everything I am able to do to help. (as long as it is feasible; understandably you get bad setups sometimes where you can't dps as much or at all due to the tank not using cooldowns/undergeared, not keeping hate, or people getting hit by unnecessary damage)

Mobs die faster so less stress on the tank and they won't have to worry about running out of cooldowns, the DPS don't have to mash as much buttons with me helping, the run goes faster and smoother. I mean it is like win-win for everyone in the group.

I understand some healers lack the skill/confidence and that is fine, but I do encourage all healers to try it out and try to learn it because seriously it can be really fun. You never know if you might have fun with something till you try it. Of course always focus keeping the team alive first though and practice makes perfect.

As a Healer main, I can say with 100% certainty that anyone who only helps the party 20% of the time is not worthy of the rewards from completing a dungeon. It's pathetically easy to stance dance- you literally only need 2 buttons, minimum- Cleric Stance and your spam damage spell. If you can't even do that during downtime, you are worthless.

Also, you got reported for verbal abuse, not for your garbage playstyle.

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Originally Posted by Rennies

As a Healer main, I can say with 100% certainty that anyone who only helps the party 20% of the time is not worthy of the rewards from completing a dungeon. It's pathetically easy to stance dance- you literally only need 2 buttons, minimum- Cleric Stance and your spam damage spell. If you can't even do that during downtime, you are worthless.

Also, you got reported for verbal abuse, not for your garbage playstyle.

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And you people wonder why you get so much backlash from the "Healer DPS is not mandatory" crowd. Preach what you know I guess...

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Originally Posted by DaikiKiyoshi

And you people wonder why you get so much backlash from the "Healer DPS is not mandatory" crowd. Preach what you know I guess...

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Name's highly familiar. May or may not be someone I've played with at some point.

And calling a player "worthless" when they contribute nothing to a run is not verbal abuse, it's stating a fact. You can be worth something when you make use of your party slot.

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Originally Posted by Rennies

Name's highly familiar. And calling a player "worthless" when they contribute nothing to a run is not verbal abuse, it's stating a fact. You can be worth something when you make use of your party slot.

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But they are contributing. They are contributing heals and a stat boost to all party members because they are there. So not only is worthless a verbally abusive statement but it's false as well.

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Originally Posted by Rennies

Lazy people who expect me to play the game for them are worthless. In the guildhest the OP was talking about, nothing more than 2 Cures are required to clear.

Have you even played a Healer? Do you know what a half-decent Healer does?

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Yes, yes I have. And I do DPS on my healer most of the time purely because most of the time I have more fun that way. I also have those days when I just want to sit back and throw out heals without stance dancing or numbing my thumb smashing the Stone III button. No one in any of my runs has complained yet and I have yet to fail a duty as a healer because the dps wasn't high enough.

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Originally Posted by DaikiKiyoshi

But they are contributing. They are contributing heals and a stat boost to all party members because they are there. So not only is worthless a verbally abusive statement but it's false as well.

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Lazy people who expect me to play the game for them are worthless. In the guildhest the OP was talking about, nothing more than 2 Cures are required to clear.

Have you even played a Healer? Do you know what a half-decent Healer does?

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Originally Posted by Miste

Honestly being main healer since 1.0 and kept with it when the game changed to 2.0 onward I feel healer DPS is awesome.

For me it isn't about running the content as fast as possible it is just...I want to do everything I can to help and support the team I get when I do content.

I have the power to heal and I have the power to DPS and I feel if I have the skill to do it then using both is how I best contribute. I have the mindset where if I can do something better I will always do it because why wouldn't I want to do everything I am able to do to help. (as long as it is feasible; understandably you get bad setups sometimes where you can't dps as much or at all due to the tank not using cooldowns/undergeared, not keeping hate, or people getting hit by unnecessary damage)

Mobs die faster so less stress on the tank and they won't have to worry about running out of cooldowns, the DPS don't have to mash as much buttons with me helping, the run goes faster and smoother. I mean it is like win-win for everyone in the group.

I understand some healers lack the skill/confidence and that is fine, but I do encourage all healers to try it out and try to learn it because seriously it can be really fun. You never know if you might have fun with something till you try it. Of course always focus keeping the team alive first though and practice makes perfect.

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My sentiments exactly. This is all perfectly in line with my own thoughts on the matter. However comma I've been saying that IF a healer doesn't dps, it's not a lack of damage as intended/planned for said content, nor a requirement. That's all, really.

So wait a second, let me get this right here.

You say you do 9-12 normal, and yet you'd rather just spend more time in a level 15 mini mission because... I still don't know why exactly.

He called you out because you were doing nothing. You honestly don't even need a dedicated healer for that. If you can't fit in damage because it's hectic, fine. That's a good reasoning. If you can't fit in dps because you don't want to do ANYTHING, then the tank can assume you never do anything anyways and wants you to fix that.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

He called you out because you were doing nothing. You honestly don't even need a dedicated healer for that.

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Honestly, I'm not even sure you need a non-dedicated healer, either. Considering you can probably do that one with Bloodbath and a Potion... I know Bockman actually requires 0 total healing done. Provided your group is actually DPSing, mind you.