Here you go Yoshida, hard-straight stats.

I loved the system they used for Einherjar in FFXI. Everyone would get an equal amount of tokens which they could trade in for items at an NPC. That way, even if you didn't get any drops, you'd still feel rewarded, which again, made people feel motivated to keep doing it.

Every once in a long while I venture in to these forums (reluctantly no doubt)... I can't imagine so many "players" here have every played any other MMO in their lives. It's quite baffling.

Think I'll just stick with Reinhearts thread for good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jynx

So who here thinks that merc runs for Ifirit are going to get really popular next patch?

---

I'm 100% sure once the item get out of the loot list in the inventar it would be char bounded.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hikozaemon

Thanks for the 5 ifrits canes Yoshi i can build a life raft and use them to float to another mmo.

---

Epic...........

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Waraji

Every once in a long while I venture in to these forums (reluctantly no doubt)... I can't imagine so many "players" here have every played any other MMO in their lives. It's quite baffling.

Think I'll just stick with Reinhearts thread for good.

---

Most people in these forums are like children, they want what they want and will throw a fit if they don't get it. They won't settle for anything less then perfection(which doesn't exist). They continue to fail to understand why they just can't fix everything they want, the way they want it, NOW. It's really quiet depressing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Felis

I'm 100% sure once the item get out of the loot list in the inventar it would be char bounded.

---

Hence the merc runs, people can/have done 7man Ifirit fights before and I'm sure there will be groups willing to sell their talents for a hefty chunk of gil.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rokien

I hate the need/greed system, how can you deem someone that needs something? YOU DON'T NEED ANYTHING! YOU WANT EVERYTHING! Everyone will just either do greed>need. It's a terrible system that doesn't need to be implemented and it's a waist of resources

---

It's just a modified /random roll.

I see no point in having the weapon drop and then a npc-tradable item as well, it would be better to just have the npc-tradable item IMO.
SE never do things the easy way though. WHY IS THIS !! ??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lienn

Just another flaw to the list. I'm getting REALLY curious to see what excuse the dev team will use when we migrate to 2.0 servers...because right now it's always the current server's fault.

---

PS3 limitations of course, worked well enough for them in FF11.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ava

I'm happy to hear they are doing a token-like system but I'm not sure I like their implementation. I think it'd be better if it was untradable but dropped for each person.

---

Exactly, everyone should get a 1 token per fight and then say after collecting 10 you can buy your weapon.

I would be totally happy with that, gives me something to work towards.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kro

I agree completely. Making only the tokens tradable has far more potential for abuse than just weapons. I can already see groups offering to take a leech on a run and sell tokens for exorbitant amounts of gil.

---

Where did it say the tokens would be tradable between PC players ?
Common sense tells me they would only be tradable to an NPC, but then I suppose I shouldn't let common sense fool me, it is SE we are talking about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jinko

PS3 limitations of course, worked well enough for them in FF11.

---

LOL!

Very true...i forgot about this one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Waraji

Every once in a long while I venture in to these forums (reluctantly no doubt)... I can't imagine so many "players" here have every played any other MMO in their lives. It's quite baffling.

Think I'll just stick with Reinhearts thread for good.

---

I really love the irony of this statement. It has nothing to do about the drop rate. It has to do with how the current method of obtaining the weapons, something most MMOs developers would laugh at.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tempestmoon

Most people in these forums are like children, they want what they want and will throw a fit if they don't get it. They won't settle for anything less then perfection(which doesn't exist). They continue to fail to understand why they just can't fix everything they want, the way they want it, NOW. It's really quiet depressing.

---

yay truth! .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Corrderio

I really love the irony of this statement. It has nothing to do about the drop rate. It has to do with how the current method of obtaining the weapons, something most MMOs developers would laugh at.

---

Other MMO developers: "Lol that Yoshida, why make some type of process to obtain the weapons? Doesn't he know the best thing to do is hand players gear on a silver platter with little to no work? lol."

Of course they'll be too busy laughing, because they'll wonder why he doesn't design it to just hand you the gear like they do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Corrderio

I really love the irony of this statement. It has nothing to do about the drop rate. It has to do with how the current method of obtaining the weapons, something most MMOs developers would laugh at.

---

Most MMO players also laugh at you for playing this game. Pot, meet the kettle. You're in the right place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elexia

Other MMO developers: "Lol that Yoshida, why make some type of process to obtain the weapons? Doesn't he know the best thing to do is hand players gear on a silver platter with little to no work? lol."

Of course they'll be too busy laughing, because they'll wonder why he doesn't design it to just hand you the gear like they do.

---

Even WoW requires you to work your ass off to get the best gear, what other MMO's out there just hand you the "best" gear in the game ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tempestmoon

Most people in these forums are like children, they want what they want and will throw a fit if they don't get it. They won't settle for anything less then perfection(which doesn't exist). They continue to fail to understand why they just can't fix everything they want, the way they want it, NOW. It's really quiet depressing.

---

I think you'll find that it's the same five people whining in each thread. In other words, a very vocal minority that doesn't represent the community as a whole at all.

What saddens me is that some people automatically jump at people with unconstructive opinions (and in return makes the situation worse, whining about the whiners etc), and then ignores people with perfectly reasonable and valid opinions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mug

What saddens me is that some people automatically jump at people with uncunstructive opinions (and in return makes the situations worse, whining about the whiners etc), and then ignores people with perfectly reasonable and valid opinions.

---

We definitely need a dislike button so that people can do this anonymously and with even less effort.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

We definitely need a dislike button so that people can do this anonymously and with even less effort.

---

Like everything else this game has to offer.

Lucifer has spoken. Here endeth the lesson. The thread is dead. Long live the Prince of ...... ahh nvm.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zoltan

Lucifer has spoken. Here endeth the lesson. The thread is dead. Long live the Prince of ...... ahh nvm.

---

Let me finish that sentence for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBe0VCso0qs

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tempestmoon

Most people in these forums are like children, they want what they want and will throw a fit if they don't get it. They won't settle for anything less then perfection(which doesn't exist). They continue to fail to understand why they just can't fix everything they want, the way they want it, NOW. It's really quiet depressing.

---

Well actually they can, since the loot system was far from perfect, but still much better the way it was before ifrit...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PrettyPrincess

yay truth! .

---

Do you realize that you bitching about the people all the time is much more annoying that the people bitching about the game?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elexia

Other MMO developers: "Lol that Yoshida, why make some type of process to obtain the weapons? Doesn't he know the best thing to do is hand players gear on a silver platter with little to no work? lol."

Of course they'll be too busy laughing, because they'll wonder why he doesn't design it to just hand you the gear like they do.

---

Because being able to give a team mate a weapon you don't need = hand out? Gotcha.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Corrderio

Because being able to give a team mate a weapon you don't need = hand out? Gotcha.

---

This is taken into account in the drop rate already. You aren't going to get the weapon any faster even if you could trade it.

It's an issue in perception only and nothing else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Let me finish that sentence for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBe0VCso0qs

---

West Philadelphia ftw!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

This is taken into account in the drop rate already. You aren't going to get the weapon any faster even if you could trade it.

It's an issue in perception only and nothing else.

---

Not sure about that. I've seen a load of dupes go to the floor I could have gave to my PT that needed them so they could get it faster than hoping they get lucky.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alcide

Do you realize that you bitching about the people all the time is much more annoying that the people bitching about the game?

---

Not really no.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elexia

Other MMO developers: "Lol that Yoshida, why make some type of process to obtain the weapons? Doesn't he know the best thing to do is hand players gear on a silver platter with little to no work? lol."

Of course they'll be too busy laughing, because they'll wonder why he doesn't design it to just hand you the gear like they do.

---

More like: Lmao! Who's Yoshida ? And whats FFXIV ?

Either way you are to biased or ignorant, to see that any system in one of those "Other MMO's that hand things out" actually dont hand anything out, all they do is streamline the looting process, so in other words, that if the item with 0.5% of dropping drops, instead of going to somebody's bag randomly, who might not even have any use for it, you can actually give it to the person that needs it, there is no need to run the same content 5000 times in the hopes that said item would find its way to your bag :/

Whining about someone bringing up a point (aka you say they are whining.) isn't going to help anyone. Be it the Devs, or the player you are complaining to.
When you at least bring up reason why the idea is bad, THEN we make progress. (Be it backwards, because it's countering an idea.)
No one in this thread, NOT EVEN ONCE, asked for gear to be handed to them w/o having to work for it.
(OK, I admit it, I don;t actually know this, since I started somewhere in the middle, and didn't read the posts before. Just going by what's being said now, and what has been repeated over and over in the similar themed threads.)


If you would like to bring up a REAL reason why SE shouldn't streamline the process, please explain.

My starting point in arguing against you is here http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post455747

I'll be glad to actually find out WHY an improved version of the loot system isn't good.
I'm more than willing to listen to a well thought out explanation.
The closest I could possibly guess at, is Taking up resources from the Dev team, that need to be used for 2.0 content.
And if the explanation is actually right, I'm more than willing to either switch my opinion, or find a new middle ground.

Hey, I agree the current loot system is stupid, and even the replacement one isn't ideal.

Yet, despite having good points, a lot of these posts are still ruined by the immature melodramatic way people complain about the system. Even the OP, with lots of stats backing him up, still comes off as a child whining even though I totally agree with him in principle.

Mature, elevated discourse will make you more sympathetic, sound more intelligent, and hopefully bring more people to your point of view. Maybe then, the developers will take notice. This is a forum on the internet, and one for a game at that, so i understand it's hard to maintain that restraint sometimes (even I have trouble with it), but I think it's better for everyone to, as my sister likes to say, "calm their tits."

As far as viable replacement loot systems, I don't see a problem with a need before greed system that checks all of your leveled classes rather than just the current one. After all, I might want a gladiator weapon but may have come on as another class to properly balance out the party. This, incidentally, is what the 2.0 system sounds like, and hopefully they'll implement it sooner.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Corrderio

Not sure about that. I've seen a load of dupes go to the floor I could have gave to my PT that needed them so they could get it faster than hoping they get lucky.

---

They don't get them any faster than the dev team would let them.

If you do such a fundamental change to the system, you'd be extremely naive to think that the drop rate wouldn't be affected. Suddenly people have much better access to all the weapons than they did before. Drop rate will be adjusted accordingly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alcide

Do you realize that you bitching about the people all the time is much more annoying that the people bitching about the game?

---

no, they didn't they are spending too much time trying to think of their ever so productive 2-3 word responses. thinking would actually require them to think and that's been proven it will not happen.

Just give it to the Devs' hands. They know what to do, they just have to implement it. At least believe the Dev team a little, they know sh*t better than us for sure =)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

They don't get them any faster than the dev team would let them.

If you do such a fundamental change to the system, you'd be extremely naive to think that the drop rate wouldn't be affected. Suddenly people have much better access to all the weapons than they did before. Drop rate will be adjusted accordingly.

---

Overall in the group? Yes, but that is negated by the fact that they share the loot list.

Even if you had the drop rate of one person's personal loot list's 10% chance of any weapon (roughly the same as Darkhold, which was out just as long as Ifrit.), people could get loot just as quick but organized linkshells and groups could actually distribute drops and get their members the gear they actually wanted faster.

"Oh I'm sure they took everything into account and made this awesome loot system as the best possible solution" have you even done Ifrit?

People obviously wouldn't be stopped from doing content if the drop rate was <2% (been doing it for a decade) for the weapon they want, as we have tried to hammer into your head for the last 23 pages and multiple threads we just want to be able to get rewards as a group for group content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Icehunter

Honestly it doesn't matter what they add in for need/greed/pass. Most LS will require you pass the item. It will not be random. I honestly wish they made ALL NM drops like Ifrit with ONE change. Ability to pass ONLY if you have the item already.

That's it.


I support the /random. :)

---

Look from my experience before ifrits fight, i got every gear faster in the r45+ dungeon because of the thing that you say is not good at all, with the loot list, you could pass the item to someone that needed it, example: if a mage gets a melee gear or weapon could pass it and if you get a mage item you could give it to someone in the party, so right now if the THM weapon drops 11 times for you (im saying this because of a friend that has that problem, and hes a tank) you cant pass the item or get any other weapon that you dont really need, so with the option to pass the item you can have the item that you need in a faster way, i've been killing ifrit more than 40 times and only got 2 items, thankfully i can use those but i still havent got my axe so i prefer the last system by far.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bayohne

I didn't think that I was vague in what was posted, but after looking it over and discussing it, I made an update to simplify it further. The original post has been updated and here is the changed text:

---

I'm curious with the new change; Will each person still have a turn @ the chest? Or will it become like the Darkhold chests for example where one person hits it and the item will randomly fall to someone in the party?

The only reason ifrit drop rates are being increased, is to give players the gear who have not gotten it yet, while the same BS happens for Dark Moogle Primal battle.

Yoshida said he wants the current hard to get items to remain hard, until he releases the next endgame content, where he will make the previous content either easier to win, or increase drop rates. This way 1 thing remains hard to get, and previous content can be tackled by those lagging behind.

Just my 2 bits.....

Since the release of Ifrit, I have had well over 400 wins. I am currently 5/7 with 4 multiple drops. Most of the time I go 55-60 wins before I get something other than dark matter. Alot of people by now also have 8+ stacks of dark matter to show for it. You can keep the drop rate the same but give us a non-tradeable token. Let us trade that token to an NPC for our choice of 1 of 7 weapons or option 8, a set amount of gil eg. 10k. Please for the love of god stop giving dark matter as a reward from these types of fights unless we can use that to repair all lower grade items with it or trade it into another npc for different rewards. It's bad enough that we have to spend additional time to farm items just for more chances at dark matter. Give the dark matter to those that don't have a lamp instead of the potions.

Since we are also on the topic of how much time we are waisting till 2.0, let us meld primal, darkhold and NM drops. Give us a reason to repeat older content as new content gets released.

I like the game because i play with my friends if it werent for them may have rated this game awesome graphics and completely garbage system of loot drop

i agree with OP that the ifirt loot pool should be like how it used to be . and this lets spam kill it and have ppl who already have the drops keep getting dupe drops . yoshida in my opinion doesnt know what an mmo or should i say a real mmo is till we get a better directer for FFXIV i will continue to play/pay but will not be surprised for the horrid drop system half ass content and wow like implementation ...


Bet money we get Light Sabers when that other garbage mmo releases (SWTOR)

I'm getting tired of this bogus drop system. I do not want to kill ifrit 1000+ times for weapons. I'm already tired of 50+ as it is.
Please SE, Hot-fix some items. It isn't a sin to hot-fix.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ambit

I'm getting tired of this bogus drop system. I do not want to kill ifrit 1000+ times for weapons. I'm already tired of 50+ as it is.
Please SE, Hot-fix some items. It isn't a sin to hot-fix.

---

Yoshi is turning into a Tanaka. He outright refuses to remove repairs that 99% of the players complain about. And instead of adding a fix to this one-sided cluster #$%@ called ifrits drops he just adds some other mechanic that will cause more complaints to poor in. Ive now went thru 245 tapers and ive gotten 6 ifrits canes.......... AGAIN?! why am i playing this game. Why are we allowing ourselves to be punished for playing this game? Why should i feel like a dick whoring out ls members to help kill ifrit when they dont want to anymore or have lost there desire too because they have been shit on by this shitty drop system where you can easily go 40+kills and not see crap. Why does the majority of people complain that they are gettin multiple drops of the same weapon over and over and over again when its suspose to be a equal chance for all (IFrits cane/Sword)? I'm a melee so my share of work at ifrit is much less stressful thank tank/mages. I dont know how any mage can tolerate repeating this fight. I dont think i can make it till job release at this point> Yoshi needs to get his hands off his head and stop flailing his hair about and make weapons drop to pool and scrap the dumb key item idea all together.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hikozaemon

He outright refuses to remove repairs that 99% of the players complain about

---

thats hyperbole.... I don't even think 50% of the player base posts on this forum

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hikozaemon

why am i playing this game.

---

That is a personal question you'll have to answer for yourself after some serious soul searching and deep meditation

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hikozaemon

Yoshi needs to get his hands off his head and stop flailing his hair about and make weapons drop to pool and scrap the dumb key item idea all together.

---

That's angry... just angry, SMH

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hikozaemon

Yoshi is turning into a Tanaka.

---

If that were true, we wouldn't even have forums.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hikozaemon

He outright refuses to remove repairs that 99% of the players complain about.

---

Who is this 99%? Have you read the repair threads? The only consistent complaint at this point is the fact that you can't trade items that aren't at 100% durability. It's actually a small minority of people that would like to do away with the system. From what I've seen, most people are in favor of it.

As for the rest of the rant... /comfort