SE Please add jump and swiming

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Originally Posted by Jynx

I better fire my writers then.

Why would I or you care what the majority wants? You should be telling the developers what you think would make the game fun for you, not for everyone else. They are perfectly capable of telling the devs themselves.

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because i want this game to be popular. and because i like the majority of the world like to play games that appeal to all my gaming desires. just like you do. even if your desires are limited. mine should not have to be because of it.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

Just stop with your trolling accusations. You obviously have no idea what trolling means.

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troll found it. some one please feed him a baby, before he attacks me from out of nowhere.

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Originally Posted by irongripz

because i want this game to be popular.

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I'll leave making the game popular to Square Enix, if they think jump will make the game more popular then I wont stop them, but I will say that it wouldn't be my choice to add to the game.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Is that really a "Option" though? Personally I don't think it's much of one. If we chose to play the whole game we have no other option than to jump. So I wouldn't call it a option in how you seem to view it, we have to limit outselves to opt out of a choice.

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there i fixed that for you. may you be enlightened young grasshoppa

In my opinion, MMOs should be a virtual world as much as they should be merely a game. And bringing life to a world requires that they immitate life in certain respects, and I think not being able to jump ruins the sense of a well-rounded world by limiting the degrees of freedom with respect to our characters' movements. In real life I can jump to my heart's content, and yet I'm supposed to beleive I cannot do so in a game where I fight dragons?

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Are you the kind of guy who doesn't buy a game becausse your favorite reviewer gave it a bad score, despite all knowledge that you probably enjoy it?

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No, but it seems with the way you advocate your point that you are the type. Your best argument for avoiding jump implementation is that you will be forced to use it in battles since it will be the optimal way of killing a mob/boss. Yoshi has never stated that jump would be used in that way. So your usual argument doesn't even apply beyond players' ideas (you already know this I'm sure). You seem to be low on ammunition in this argument.

What Yoshi did state was that it would be nice to not feel stuck to the ground all the time. He believes this because he understands the nature of jump in the context of what mmo gamers are used to; more importantly from his own personal experience. Part of the reason SE even hired him as producer and director is because he understands what this genre is bringing to the table for 2011 and beyond. Let him do his job.

I will play this game regardless of whether jump is implemented, but will always blame those afraid of evolving if it isn't. We'd probably already have it if it weren't for you guys. Thanks for holding us back.

My vision for jump:

~Have it so that players can jump whenever they want/need, but make it realistic and in-tune with the current high quality animation style. This means a fairly instant jump upon button activation, but ending with a nice smooth landing animation which needs to finish its cycle before being able to spam it again. This would avoid what FFXI players fear the most in terms of incessant bunny hopping.

~Have jump actually coincide with the design of 2.0 so that there could be reasons to jump (i.e. in dungeons over pitfalls that could drop us a level below). Falling from heights too high would hurt our HP (like in Zelda), but cliffsides should still have invisible walls (no need to fall off cliffs since this would only be an instant death hassle).

~If jumping was to be implemented into battles (this one's for you Jynx), they shouldn't be regular jumps but instead dodging rolls in all directions.

~If/when swimming is added, let us climb (yes, climb) up ladders/vines to high ledges and swan dive into the water. This would be awesome as an entrance to an instanced dungeon.

~Allow us to jump while on chocoback, but let us glide down to the ground with certain (black) chocobos.

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Originally Posted by Zaireeka2025

No, but it seems with the way you advocate your point that you are the type. Your best argument for avoiding jump implementation is that you will be forced to use it in battles since it will be the optimal way of killing a mob/boss. Yoshi has never stated that jump would be used in that way. So your usual argument doesn't even apply beyond players' ideas (you already know this I'm sure). You seem to be low on ammunition in this argument.

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I like that you have a good vision of how a jump system would work, but I have no other optiont than to assume the system will be how some players imagine it. You even have a nice solution to athstetic issues with the system.

I wouldn't be as oposed to something of that sorts, I'm still preferable to not jumping but it at least takes into concession the fact some people don't want to see people jumping around like rabits.

*edit*

But to the point where I seemingly buy games based on reviews, I'm not sure where you got the idea but Considering my collection counts a good deal of games that reviewers don't really find "Amazing" I can't say that I do.

Among those kinds of titles would be Disgaea series and Dynasty wariors <_< Love those games as repetative as they are.

Swimming, NO

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Originally Posted by Jynx

But to the point where I seemingly buy games based on reviews, I'm not sure where you got the idea but Considering my collection counts a good deal of games that reviewers don't really find "Amazing" I can't say that I do.

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I'm not sure where you got the idea either. This game got some of the lowest ratings ever, and I love this game. Either way, thanks for understanding where I'm coming from.

If you want to be an idiot and jump all over the place, go play lolWoW or Rift. It has no place in Final Fantasy.

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Originally Posted by Zoltan

If you want to be an idiot and jump all over the place, go play lolWoW or Rift. It has no place in Final Fantasy.

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Previous installments have had jumps and swimming. C U L8R.

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Originally Posted by ellohwell

Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.

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Ok... I had to lol

Current FFXIV don't need to jump or swim, so no thinks. For 2.0, well we wait and see, I just hope they don't make jumps too silly and stick with the more realistic style, also with a cooldown of say 5-10 seconds between each jump, to stop the stupid flea hopping you see in other MMO's.
If I want to see that sort of thing I will go play WoW, was the most anoying thing about WoW, well other than the stupid PvP junkies trying to challenge you all the time to silly duels.

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Originally Posted by ellohwell

Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines

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You should have picked a different word. It's very offensive.

You mean that your movement is inhibited without jump. It has been definitively demonstrated that jump will not help your movement either by increasing your speed or by overcoming objects that you cannot walk over.

Final Fantasy does not need jump.

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Originally Posted by Zoltan

You should have picked a different word. It's very offensive.

You mean that your movement is inhibited without jump. It has been definitively demonstrated that jump will not help your movement either by increasing your speed or by overcoming objects that you cannot walk over.

Final Fantasy does not need jump.

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Not being able to jump is a disability. How is that offensive?

Jump would be great in the game. By adding this simple mechanic you can expand the type of encounters people face, like giving bosses quake like spells that require you to jump to avoid :D.

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Originally Posted by Zoltan

It has been definitively demonstrated that jump will not help your movement either by increasing your speed or by overcoming objects that you cannot walk over.

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This statement contains little to no logic. Where has it been definitively demonstrated? First of all, nobody is saying or hoping jump will make you faster. Secondly, it is most definitive that jumping over a tiny rock that won't let you continue will get you over it.

Edit: Nonetheless, SE has fixed the impassable tiny rock debacle for the most part... and we still want jump.

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

I honestly don't want it though, I don't see the need for them, WoW had both, but there honestly was not need for them in it, they had some quests that you swam in, but they where the same as land quests, just.....swimming -.-

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Actually, there's now an entire underwater zone in Cataclysm. You not only swim, but get a seahorse mount.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Immersion is subjective.

The game doesn't "need" swimming or jumping, it could use it but by all means the game will not instantly be 100x better just because you can swim and emote jump.

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You're right madam. Jumping or swimming won't instantly make the game x100 times better. However, what it will do is add depth to the world and make it more real. It will do its part to help make the world more immerse as well as break up the monotony of being grounded all the time. ^^

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Originally Posted by Anapingofness

You're right madam. Jumping or swimming won't instantly make the game x100 times better. However, what it will do is add depth to the world and make it more real. It will do its part to help make the world more immerse as well as break up the monotony of being grounded all the time. ^^

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IF IF IF IF IF IF they make the zones around being able to do so in 2.0. If that's the case, cool. If not, don't bother putting it in because it will simply be a useless animation.

SE please dont add jump. Halo and WoW should never mix with Final Fantasy..

it will look like Aion or any of those shitty Korean MMO's with a bunch a tards jumping non stop as they run down the streets..

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

I honestly don't want it though, I don't see the need for them, WoW had both, but there honestly was not need for them in it, they had some quests that you swam in, but they where the same as land quests, just.....swimming -.-

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

Actually, there's now an entire underwater zone in Cataclysm. You not only swim, but get a seahorse mount.

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They also have fights where jumping is essential. For example the last boss in Vortex Pinnacle has an ability that roots players to the ground if they don't jump when he casts it. Shortly after casting that spell he will aoe the entire room killing anyone hit, unless they are able to shelter themselves from his aoe in an anti magic zone he creates. Other end game content that has utilized jumping is Thadius in Naxx, jump from a platform onto the area where the boss activates. Also the Nefarian fight in Black Wing Descent from the Cataclysm expansion uses swimming or jumping when entering phase 2 of that fight by lowering the platform into a pool of lava forcing players to swim and jump onto one of three pillars.

Although these things may seem trivial, they do add another element to the game. Having these abilities wont harm the game in any way, it only gives the developers more options for more interesting encounters.

Cut the Dev team some slack and let them do 2.0 as they plan =)

Yoshi-P seems to wanting Swimming as well as we do, so just give them some time. Jumping is already taken in consideration.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

IF IF IF IF IF IF they make the zones around being able to do so in 2.0. If that's the case, cool. If not, don't bother putting it in because it will simply be a useless animation.

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I'm not disagreeing. In fact, I'd love a practical application to jump/swimming.

Also, I'm not saying that FFXIV *needs* jump.

However, what I am saying is that it would help make the world more believable/real. In my eyes, that creates better immersion.

That being said, by your argument the animations we have for /wave, /point, /laugh, etc are all useless. They do not have a practical application in game at all. In which case, it's perfectly alright to have impractical animations because they create a more interesting experience. ^^;

Well, it would in my opinion anyways.

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Originally Posted by Teakwood

I think jumping would be kind of silly, but I'm okay with it as long as Lalafell have truly outrageous, absurdly acrobatic jumping animations such that they can jump at -least- as high as a Roegadyn can. I want to see backflips, midair twirls, in-air poses.

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LMAO ^ this

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

As far as this debate is going right now, the majority is us and the minority is you so yes... majority wins!

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Yeah, because a lot of us popped in, dropped our opinions for any developer or moderator might want to read them, then left so as not to get embroiled in depressing, vitriolic debates like this one.

If you have to invoke majorities, then at least go with the ones actually permeate the boards, not just a transient one exists because Jynx is the only one can stomach getting called a troll over and over rather than leave it to look like one side somehow 'won' by driving everyone with a different opinion to silence.

Frankly I think it better to drop the stupid majority thing altogether; that's for the developers to decide. 'Only thing we need to be doing is expressing our personal opinions, so far as I can see. Hopefully they'll make their decisions based on the number of people expressing one opinion or the other (or just whatever they feel's appropriate), and not the number of people willing to bicker endlessly as to whether one opinion is better than the other.

Besides, 'majority says this so shut up' is.. pretty low. It's in a similar place to 'poll voted for big changes so you don't get to say you dislike things'.

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Originally Posted by Fensfield

Swimming I'm all for. The only way that could be screwed up is if the animations are stupidly bad or they enable swimming while not in water somehow, and I don't think the developers are that incompetent.

Jump, though? If it's just a glorified emote, then I'd really rather not have it at all, and personally, I'd prefer Final Fantasy XIII's way of doing it as an ideal. Still, just a free jump button would be alright I suppose, if it's made relevant to the game (replacing running along cliff-faces, environments tailored to it..). I'd just have to pray I can stomach the occasional bouncing prat or it's in some way still limited.

'Doubt I'll use it too much however, if only because in order to match the other races' jumping ability my Lalafell will probably look tremendously daft when he jumps. 'Course if they somehow manage to make it look alright ..

Honestly though, jump's pretty much the absolute least important feature I can imagine at present. There are hundreds of things I'd sooner see prioritised, myself.

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There, I reiterated my point. Now 'as far as this debate is going right now', the balance of who's arguing what is slightly different - and that's still totally irrelevant! Hurray!

I'm all for the 'Theme Park' vision Yoshi has which this thread fits into.
The more variety of gameplay, the better. This is where i see FFXIV being able to surpass XI and where i encourage being out of XI mindset, i.e expand on XI and implement new ideas and gameplay styles in, never thought of before. Make Combat also more dynamic and fun to play, not ur standard hit button and watch. With the new servers coming through, i think there is a huge potential to introduce wild concepts to the game to make it a real fun and thrilling experience.

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Originally Posted by Shipp

Please do, since I know exactly which post of mine you're referring to and if you'd actually think about it, you'd realize there's nothing ironic about it at all.

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Oh I have thought about it and perhaps irony isn't a good enough word for it.

Hypocrisy is much more poignant.

Spin, deflect, dodge, redefine and argue that "it's different here" 'til you're blue in the face. It is what it is. You're a hypocrite.

In the other thread, I set up a possible scenario where a given piece of rare gear, or at least two pieces of gear with the same stats but different looks - could be obtained in two possible ways. One way would be to do a difficult instanced battle, such as a hyper Ifrit type fight. The other way could be for rare world NM/HNM spawns to have a chance of dropping it. This way, those who enjoy doing instanced battles could have a shot at it, and people who enjoy hunting rare HNMs/NMs could have a shot at it. Neither piece would be superior or inferior to the other.

Such a setup would provide options to players. Not everyone enjoys doing instances. There are people who enjoy hunting and camping rare NMs (your "disbelief" of such a thing notwithstanding).

You, oh mighty Shipp on High, declared that no, those who might enjoy such an option should not be offered it, for no other reason than you don't like them. Your entire argument in that case is self-centered. It's all about you.

Oh you gave all sorts of reasons why you don't like them. But then, people in this thread have given all kinds of reasons - some quite valid and precedented - for feeling jumping isn't necessary or desirable in FFXIV. You've had an answer for them every time, haven't you? In fact, I could just copy and paste some of your myriad responses to people in this thread, and it would apply just as well to the HNM topic.

For example, here's another one of your own statements turned against you:

"Adding jump takes nothing away from you, whatsoever. It does add to the enjoyment of a lot of other people though."

As applied to the other thread:
"Adding rare HNMs/NMs as an option to obtain certain gear takes nothing away from you, whatsoever. It does add to the enjoyment of a lot of other people though."

As long as you have the option to not hunt/camp the rare HNMs/NMs and have an alternative means of obtaining the item in question via an Instanced fight, then what does it matter to you that the option is there? It's not being forced on you. It's an option. So why are you so against it? Oh right... because Shipp doesn't like the idea of camping HNMs and can't fathom the idea that others actually would. I mean that is what you said in the other thread, with that appeal to incredulity you used as an actual argument.

But of course, it's different in this case, isn't it, Shipp? Because you don't like the idea of HNMs/NMs, then it doesn't matter what others would enjoy, right? Because, it's all about you, isn't it.

Shipp, there's no other way to describe it: You are a hypocrite.

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Originally Posted by Fensfield

Yeah, because a lot of us popped in, dropped our opinions for any developer or moderator might want to read them, then left so as not to get embroiled in depressing, vitriolic debates like this one.

If you have to invoke majorities, then at least go with the ones actually permeate the boards, not just a transient one exists because Jynx is the only one can stomach getting called a troll over and over rather than leave it to look like one side somehow 'won' by driving everyone with a different opinion to silence.

Frankly I think it better to drop the stupid majority thing altogether; that's for the developers to decide. 'Only thing we need to be doing is expressing our personal opinions, so far as I can see. Hopefully they'll make their decisions based on the number of people expressing one opinion or the other (or just whatever they feel's appropriate), and not the number of people willing to bicker endlessly as to whether one opinion is better than the other.

Besides, 'majority says this so shut up' is.. pretty low. It's in a similar place to 'poll voted for big changes so you don't get to say you dislike things'.


There, I reiterated my point. Now 'as far as this debate is going right now', the balance of who's arguing what is slightly different - and that's still totally irrelevant! Hurray!

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you sir are a hypocrite. you say you think everyone should leave one opinion then you come and bash every one that don't share yours. try not to let your favoritism show, your biased and asinine opinion is your own and no one is telling you you cant have one. but when you repeatedly keep saying same thing and arguing your side of it, you cant tell someone else not to. if you was fine leaving your opinion and not wanting to be in the debate fine. but you come back, just to be a hypocrite of your own method of thinking good job sir i wont call you a troll yet.. but you wont silence us either. the majority does make a difference and as for letting the developers decide? well they asked for our opinions, and unfortunately you guys lose this debate because any one not wanting jump, has no reason what so every beside pure selfish, opinions that it will hurt their imagination because it is already to small to think outside of the box.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

Oh I have thought about it and perhaps irony isn't a good enough word for it.

Hypocrisy is much more poignant.

Spin, deflect, dodge, redefine and argue that "it's different here" 'til you're blue in the face. It is what it is. You're a hypocrite.

In the other thread, I set up a possible scenario where a given piece of rare gear, or at least two pieces of gear with the same stats but different looks - could be obtained in two possible ways. One way would be to do a difficult instanced battle, such as a hyper Ifrit type fight. The other way could be for rare world NM/HNM spawns to have a chance of dropping it. This way, those who enjoy doing instanced battles could have a shot at it, and people who enjoy hunting rare HNMs/NMs could have a shot at it. Neither piece would be superior or inferior to the other.

Such a setup would provide options to players. Not everyone enjoys doing instances. There are people who enjoy hunting and camping rare NMs (your "disbelief" of such a thing notwithstanding).

You, oh mighty Shipp on High, declared that no, those who might enjoy such an option should not be offered it, for no other reason than you don't like them. Your entire argument in that case is self-centered. It's all about you.

Oh you gave all sorts of reasons why you don't like them. But then, people in this thread have given all kinds of reasons - some quite valid and precedented - for feeling jumping isn't necessary or desirable in FFXIV. You've had an answer for them every time, haven't you? In fact, I could just copy and paste some of your myriad responses to people in this thread, and it would apply just as well to the HNM topic.

For example, here's another one of your own statements turned against you:

"Adding jump takes nothing away from you, whatsoever. It does add to the enjoyment of a lot of other people though."

As applied to the other thread:
"Adding rare HNMs/NMs as an option to obtain certain gear takes nothing away from you, whatsoever. It does add to the enjoyment of a lot of other people though."

As long as you have the option to not hunt/camp the rare HNMs/NMs and have an alternative means of obtaining the item in question via an Instanced fight, then what does it matter to you that the option is there? It's not being forced on you. It's an option. So why are you so against it? Oh right... because Shipp doesn't like the idea of camping HNMs and can't fathom the idea that others actually would. I mean that is what you said in the other thread, with that appeal to incredulity you used as an actual argument.

But of course, it's different in this case, isn't it, Shipp? Because you don't like the idea of HNMs/NMs, then it doesn't matter what others would enjoy, right? Because, it's all about you, isn't it.

Shipp, there's no other way to describe it: You are a hypocrite.

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seriously does this need to be in this thread? derail the debate more it helps you guys win it.

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Originally Posted by Zaireeka2025

This statement contains little to no logic. Where has it been definitively demonstrated? First of all, nobody is saying or hoping jump will make you faster. Secondly, it is most definitive that jumping over a tiny rock that won't let you continue will get you over it.

Edit: Nonetheless, SE has fixed the impassable tiny rock debacle for the most part... and we still want jump.

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if only they would fix the knee high fence that my guy seems to be to lazy to step over. maybe they could add this tactic you see in most games, what was it oh yea jump.

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Originally Posted by Zoltan

If you want to be an idiot and jump all over the place, go play lolWoW or Rift. It has no place in Final Fantasy.

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lack of imagination has no place in final fantasy

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Originally Posted by DantesAmore

SE please dont add jump. Halo and WoW should never mix with Final Fantasy..

it will look like Aion or any of those shitty Korean MMO's with a bunch a tards jumping non stop as they run down the streets..

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if funny you guys compare final fantasy to all these successful games, yet this game is going over a major redesign simple for fact it lacks many of the standard features that are in those games. i could easily say i don't want ffxiv to be another one of those unpopular, crap games where i see everyone running in place because they afk and let the invisible walls keep them from actually having to control their character. maybe they should remove auto run because tards use it running down the street.

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Originally Posted by DNO

Jump will be cool for like the ifrit battle when he puts cracks on the ground. It be cool to see you party jumping full force away from danger rather then Jogging away from death. (if i had to escape death i would be a little more in a hurry).

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Why would u want to jump straight up and land on the cracks again? how far do u think u can jump? this is stupid

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Originally Posted by Thanos

Why would u want to jump straight up and land on the cracks again? how far do u think u can jump? this is stupid

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Do you really need someone to explain to you how jump would work while using a directional keypad?

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Originally Posted by Thanos

Why would u want to jump straight up and land on the cracks again? how far do u think u can jump? this is stupid

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LMAO i lol'ed

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Originally Posted by Wynn

Do you really need someone to explain to you how jump would work while using a directional keypad?

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hahahahah i could not even give him a proper response lol

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Originally Posted by irongripz

you sir are a hypocrite. you say you think everyone should leave one opinion then you come and bash every one that don't share yours. try not to let your favoritism show, your biased and asinine opinion is your own and no one is telling you you cant have one. but when you repeatedly keep saying same thing and arguing your side of it, you cant tell someone else not to. if you was fine leaving your opinion and not wanting to be in the debate fine. but you come back, just to be a hypocrite of your own method of thinking good job sir i wont call you a troll yet.. but you wont silence us either. the majority does make a difference and as for letting the developers decide? well they asked for our opinions, and unfortunately you guys lose this debate because any one not wanting jump, has no reason what so every beside pure selfish, opinions that it will hurt their imagination because it is already to small to think outside of the box.

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Actually, no, I will reply to this.

Call me a hypocrite if you like, but honestly, I spoke up because I feel 'the vocal majority disagrees with you so you're wrong' is an unfair debating tactic, and that people were being awfully mean-spirited. Something I think you prove by accusing people of being selfish for expressing an opinion that, just as you say, the developers have asked for.

Now, I'm sorry, but I'm putting an ignore on you and leaving thread.. if only because, well, I honestly just think you're a spiteful person whose posts I don't want to have to see any more. Enjoy the bickering everyone.

Is it me or are the people saying they don't want jump only coming up with arguments that are just..... i don't know... stupid? Can we really call these arguments? and i quote...

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SE please dont add jump. Halo and WoW should never mix with Final Fantasy..

it will look like Aion or any of those shitty Korean MMO's with a bunch a tards jumping non stop as they run down the streets..

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If you want to be an idiot and jump all over the place, go play lolWoW or Rift. It has no place in Final Fantasy.

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Why would u want to jump straight up and land on the cracks again? how far do u think u can jump? this is stupid

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It has been definitively demonstrated that jump will not help your movement either by increasing your speed or by overcoming objects that you cannot walk over.

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I played Ultima Online as well, it survived many years without a jump button.

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If yoshi want to make a Final fantasy like he said swimming and jump won't be added.

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Yet he said he personally wants jump...

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This game doesn't need jumping. Go play another MMO if you miss it so much.

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and then they go and call people wanting jump retards... really? Do you read before posting? At least the other side is giving detailed arguments as per why Jump is needed and giving gameplay examples etc etc...

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

Is it me or are the people saying they don't want jump only coming up with arguments that are just..... i don't know... stupid? Can we really call these arguments? and i quote...

Yet he said he personally wants jump...

and then they go and call people wanting jump retards... really? Do you read before posting? At least the other side is giving detailed arguments as per why Jump is needed and giving gameplay examples etc etc...

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Wow a truely awesome post. Its like my sig. and as my OP says FF11 players are killing this game. I hope SE understands this.