The Monk Temple Reborn

Get gear with more STR, that seems to help :P

Seriously though, this is way too early to be worrying about secondary stats; what we can get at this stage is so ineffective (presuming you have enough accuracy).

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Originally Posted by Ossom

I personally think Crit is the new go to until Dervy or someone else does some stat weigts. Looking at Drg Stat weights, it seems Det and Crit are still equal for them and SS is still a lot less. I say get enough SS to do the 5 Hit PB and be able to Keep GL when you throw in the ToD and then go full crit after that.

Mostly Minimize Accuracy to meet w/e the cap is at that specific time, make sure you meet the SS break point and then just stack Crit.

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Which has always been the practice and I could achieve before 3.0 at 400 SS but as it stands right now I'm at 545 SS and I'm only i165. Just feels like I'm missing something since it is all over the new gear and weapons and we only need 400 to achieve 5 hit PB.

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Originally Posted by Ossom

I say get enough SS to do the 5 Hit PB and be able to Keep GL when you throw in the ToD and then go full crit after that.

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How much SS is required to get off ToD after PB falls?

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Originally Posted by PandaPause

Which has always been the practice and I could achieve before 3.0 at 400 SS but as it stands right now I'm at 545 SS and I'm only i165. Just feels like I'm missing something since it is all over the new gear and weapons and we only need 400 to achieve 5 hit PB.

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You need more than 400 SS to hit the same combo that you did at Lv50.

Every Skill Speed, Str, Det point is worth less the higher level you are. Not sure if this is due to the ratio with Str or the ratio with your level but 400 SS should not be enough SS for a Lv60 Monk.

@ Probound, I haven't done any testing on the new MNK SS break point yet.

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Originally Posted by Ossom

You need more than 400 SS to hit the same combo that you did at Lv50.

Every Skill Speed, Str, Det point is worth less the higher level you are. Not sure if this is due to the ratio with Str or the ratio with your level but 400 SS should not be enough SS for a Lv60 Monk.

@ Probound, I haven't done any testing on the new MNK SS break point yet.

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Ahhh ok this helps. I just don't want to sacrifice too much det/crit for SS I don't need because I feel like I'm losing a lot of crit/det just to meet ilvl reqs for Bis/Rav Ex and Alex.

My current dilemma, and the main reason I wouldn't consider using fracture, is that DK and TS ends up with 1 second left during the rotation when you apply ToD. I would like to have a least a little more skill speed to help smooth things out.

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Originally Posted by PROBOUND

How much SS is required to get off ToD after PB falls?

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Without Form change Coeurl stance, a very large amount of SS ... I'm not hitting it at 582.

With Form Change Coeurl stance (Use demolish), as long as you can run 5 GCDs through PB (those being Snap Punch> Snap Punch> Twin Snakes > Dragon Kick > Snap Punch) you can hit ToD after the last snap punch and not run out of Greased lightning III

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Originally Posted by Shincrimson

Without Form change Coeurl stance, a very large amount of SS ... I'm not hitting it at 582.

With Form Change Coeurl stance (Use demolish), as long as you can run 5 GCDs through PB (those being Snap Punch> Snap Punch> Twin Snakes > Dragon Kick > Snap Punch) you can hit ToD after the last snap punch and not run out of Greased lightning III

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im able to pull to do it without a single drop of skill speed (i litteraly just removed all gear with skillspeed to retest), its just a matter of not hesitating on your skills

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Originally Posted by Zamii

im able to pull to do it without a single drop of skill speed (i litteraly just removed all gear with skillspeed to retest), its just a matter of not hesitating on your skills

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Latency can also play a role in this as well. While I agree you can do it without any SS a little bit of latency can make the difference of not hitting it since the timing will be pretty tight.

So Alex has been release and we can confirm that DRG deal more or even than MNK with more party utility, Idk about NIN but they also have really good party utility.
As expected we are in bad spot. Our blunt damage bonus should work on MCH... DRG is too favored in this extension imho.

Thought?

Im going back dragoon after progression, thats my thoughts. I was a dragoon until 3rd coil, and right now its way more interesting to play and is absolutely better in terms of dps/raid dps. Monk is still good just not good enough to take a raid spot after progression.

Slashing/piercing damage everywhere.


Hammer/mace class please.

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Originally Posted by Silverawz

As expected we are in bad spot. Our blunt damage bonus should work on MCH... DRG is too favored in this extension imho.

Thought?

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Just going to point out, DRGs were in a bad spot for a really long time in 2.x.

I still think dragon kick will be desired in progression since drk is not a favored tank. Mantra is probably still good and the numbers I've seen mnk pull is comparable. I don't think a group is missing out on too much utility if they bring a mnk instead of a drg.

Besides, battle littany is on a 3 min cool down. So until it's up drg has stun and piercing debuff. So I don't believe mnk are in a bad spot at all.

Though drg may do better than mnk now in a turret fight, mnk will probably do better on fights with downtimes.

I think all the melee dps are actually in a good spot right now according to what people have been posting... damage wise anyway.

Need to get my mnk to 60 soon though. I like to switch between the dps.

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Originally Posted by Zamii

im able to pull to do it without a single drop of skill speed (i litteraly just removed all gear with skillspeed to retest), its just a matter of not hesitating on your skills

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By "it" I assume you mean the new opener, and not the old optimal one, right? Because I can't see anyone doing the old one with just base SS lol

If A1-4 in their Savage forms are relatively similar to the normal mode versions, in that what forms of damage coming out are the same, I'd see DK only having important meaning in A3 and A4 from what I've seen, but I haven't exactly studied what damage types are which because it's so easy. Who knows, they could go the T7 savage fireball route and take something of relatively safe damage and ramp it up 2X.

With the current balancing of the melee DK is really gonna have to be T13 levels of usefulness IMO for MNK to take a spot in a high end raid group. Even a better geared MNK would probably bring less to raid DPS than an i180 DRG/NIN as it stands.

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Originally Posted by Shincrimson

By "it" I assume you mean the new opener, and not the old optimal one, right? Because I can't see anyone doing the old one with just base SS lol

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if you read back a few quotes, it was all about someone asking how much skill speed was required to fit 5 skill into PB, that being said, i always used my own opener for 2.X so i dont really know what the generally accepted opener for monks was, but that aside, i did try to do both ToD and fracter after PB ended, and i was still able to maintain greased lightning quite comfortably, i'de have to double check but im prety sure i could fit in 1 more skill if i really wanted.

i dont really think it matters much though, the new opener leaves more than enough room to spare for monks greased lightning.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

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from what i can tell so far, the mechanics that actually hit hard in A4 are either physical or not affected by DK on the boss, A3 really doesnt hit that hard though for the time being, at least in terms of magic hits, the only part that seems to do any damage is when he applies blunt resistance down on the tanks.

i just did a quick look over some data i had from earlier runs however and it looks like A1 we might be the most useful
gunnery pod (seems to be its version of auto attack? i'll pay more attention in a future run) is a magic based hit from oppressor/oppressor 0.5

EDIT: seems like i jumped the gun on A4, everything the boss itself uses is magic, and hits relatively hard, theres still quite a bit that isnt affected by DK however

Hello! I want to start using Monk and be good at it, I would love some tips and an optimal rotation for the job. My monk is only level 16 so I really dont know that much (if you guys have the fastest way to level up you can tell me too) Thanks! :)

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Originally Posted by Manu-Kesna

Hello! I want to start using Monk and be good at it, I would love some tips and an optimal rotation for the job. My monk is only level 16 so I really dont know that much (if you guys have the fastest way to level up you can tell me too) Thanks! :)

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I'm not that experienced, but I think the first page or two of this thread will help you in your future endeavors. :)

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Originally Posted by duceTRE

I'm not that experienced, but I think the first page or two of this thread will help you in your future endeavors. :)

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It would be nice if someone who lives and breaths MNK could start a new thread because the OP is MIA and the information is now outdated. I've always envied how good the DRG threads have been.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

If A1-4 in their Savage forms are relatively similar to the normal mode versions, in that what forms of damage coming out are the same, I'd see DK only having important meaning in A3 and A4 from what I've seen, but I haven't exactly studied what damage types are which because it's so easy. Who knows, they could go the T7 savage fireball route and take something of relatively safe damage and ramp it up 2X.

With the current balancing of the melee DK is really gonna have to be T13 levels of usefulness IMO for MNK to take a spot in a high end raid group. Even a better geared MNK would probably bring less to raid DPS than an i180 DRG/NIN as it stands.

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All because of their debuffs, or are these classes inherently better ?

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Originally Posted by Niyuka

All because of their debuffs, or are these classes inherently better ?

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In addition to their buffs/debuffs DRG and NIN bring more DPS to the raid since Mnk have 0, because mantra and DK don't bring more dps.

You'd actually be better off taking a Mnk over a Nin in A2. Just because Nin's have the worst AoE damage in the game.

Honestly though, if you're good enough at your class, any class should be viable to do Alex savage. If the only thing you think you bring to the table is the ability to keep Dragon kick on the boss then you need to reevaluate why you play monk.

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Originally Posted by Zamii

i dont really think it matters much though, the new opener leaves more than enough room to spare for monks greased lightning.

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Eh, GL3 is applied at the start of the GCD of the skill. Follow it up with DK and Twin. Then BS-True-Demo/SP. That's 10.5 seconds with the current BiS. Throwing in ToD turns that into 12.5, which means you lose GL. The only way to fit ToD in after PB is if you make one of the last 2 hits of PB SP or demo. Fracture if you apply it with the last hit. This results in DK/Twin falling off, though.

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Originally Posted by Ossom

You'd actually be better off taking a Mnk over a Nin in A2. Just because Nin's have the worst AoE damage in the game.

Honestly though, if you're good enough at your class, any class should be viable to do Alex savage. If the only thing you think you bring to the table is the ability to keep Dragon kick on the boss then you need to reevaluate why you play monk.

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It hardly matters. Ninja gets Katon, Monk gets EF/HF. Rockbreaker is rarely worth using as you'll just run out of TP. Not a problem yet because it's piss easy, but hard mode A2 might take a few extra minutes and target prioritization probably will become a thing.

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Originally Posted by Humorless

It hardly matters. Ninja gets Katon, Monk gets EF/HF. Rockbreaker is rarely worth using as you'll just run out of TP. Not a problem yet because it's piss easy, but hard mode A2 might take a few extra minutes and target prioritization probably will become a thing.

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Wait what? Monk's Aoe completely outclasses Ninja's Aoe also we have Purification to help us use Rockbreaker spam maybe only 300 tp but it still helps out get to our next Invigorate you are right in that its quite an easy Zerg In A2 and only time will tell how we fair in savage but Ninja will hardly be a great position either TP wise.

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Originally Posted by Victorixvii

Wait what? Monk's Aoe completely outclasses Ninja's Aoe also we have Purification to help us use Rockbreaker spam maybe only 300 tp but it still helps out get to our next Invigorate you are right in that its quite an easy Zerg In A2 and only time will tell how we fair in savage but Ninja will hardly be a great position either TP wise.

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Do show your A2 run where your rockbreakers make a significant difference in run length.


That's why it hardly matters. In dungeons, sure, but in raid setting the difference is fuck all.

Uh... Monk's AoEs completely outclass Ninja's AoEs. They aren't even relatable.

We get 220 Potency per monster every 30Seconds, 170 Potency per Monster every 60 Seconds and then we get 130 Potency per Monster every 5 Seconds.

We have an AoE skill in our rotation, you calling it useless is laughable. Rockbreaker is one of our most powerful skills when used right, have you not been using it? Wow.

Let me correct you, every little bit helps in raid settings. In Dungeons it might not matter because no one fails those, but if you think X-Pots help in fights, and food helps in fights, then surely you can't say Rockbreaker is useless and doesn't help in a fight like A2.

A2 savage could be a fight that benefits from the use of Purification more rather than Forbidden Chakra so using Rockbreaker is viable in terms of TP. General raid settings and dungeon settings aside...Rockbreaker is obviously more useful when you have multiple mobs, in A2 specifically you have multiple mobs possibly with vulnerability, sounds like it will be pretty useful there to me instead of just sticking to using Snap Punch or Demo the whole run.

Monk 1200 dps with i179 (some alex pieces) :)

https://youtu.be/-MUB0z6Omys

Also, I don't know why people are still asking for an opener. Unless someone posts a higher pps opener, the one I posted is the one you wanna use.

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Originally Posted by scx

Monk 1200 dps with i179 (some alex pieces) :)

https://youtu.be/-MUB0z6Omys

Also, I don't know why people are still asking for an opener. Unless someone posts a higher pps opener, the one I posted is the one you wanna use.

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Very nice! looks like hive weapon?

Im only i168 w/ some dungeon gear still and had a sustained 900 dps near a 16 min duration w/ no food or party buffs on a striking dummy. Would like to give the rotation in your video a shot once I increase some ilvl.

I also love the chocobo taunting the dummy as you wreck it lol

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Originally Posted by scx

Words

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Can you give me some feedback on this opener? It is essentially my attempt at a HW version of the one seen in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SapovIG92E0

Form Shift - Couerl - (Shoulder tackle) - Demo - (PB) - Snap - (Poison Pot) - Snap (B4B) - DK- (Draco Pot) - Twin - (IR) - Snap - (Forbidden Chakara) - Tod - (Elixir Field) - Boot -(Howling Fist) - True Strike -(Steel Peak)- Demo

I organized the OGCD's from highest to lowest potency with the exception of Shoulder Tackle because Alex boss arenas are fucking huge and you really want to be hitting the boss ASAP. You can get a fully boosted fracture before the last Demo, but the DK and SN buff will fall of and not be applied to their respective skills for that one cycle. If Esoterics gives us a little more SS this will not be an issue at allas I know a few people here don't like the concept of using fracture in the opener if DK and SN have to fall off.

Eh, that's basically the standard opener right now. I would line up EF/HF closer to IR since it doesn't matter when you use FC (as it's not on a cooldown), but to each his own.

Can anyone give me a rundown of MNK post 50? I absolutely LOVED playing MNK but didn't main it because downtime + GL stack loss + shit AOE (coming from being a caster) put me off. Anything different? Also I remember my MNK friend talking about having a certain number of skill speed pre 3.0. Was that for the PB opener? Any detailed responses are much appreciated :)

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Originally Posted by Fatshine

Can anyone give me a rundown of MNK post 50? I absolutely LOVED playing MNK but didn't main it because downtime + GL stack loss + shit AOE (coming from being a caster) put me off. Anything different? Also I remember my MNK friend talking about having a certain number of skill speed pre 3.0. Was that for the PB opener? Any detailed responses are much appreciated :)

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It's largely the same as before. Form shift is probably your most important new skill. Use it logically. If you know you're gonna lose grease no matter what, use tornado kick. You can also use chakra while dodging aoes or during downtime.

Monk AOE improved but it's still nothing to write home about. The bigger difference is the casters being nerfed while ours was not.


Skill speed was never really an issue. 5 hits in PB can be gotten with base SS. It's not as worthless of a stat as it was before but it's still not worth getting and at the moment we don't have any choice in itemization anyway. You can get ToD off after PB regardless.

Excellent guide. Thank you!

I dunno why ppl think monk aoe is bad. I parse higher than almost any other class with monk aoe. Better than SMN and BLM. Full GL3, all our buffs, and PB+RB I'm parsing almost 1000-2000 sometimes depending on how many mobs there are. Of course you can only do that so often but even without PB you can still do a crap load, just make sure you use purification and Invigorate as necessary.

My only argument of playing on the ps4 is not having a parser at my disposal....I would really like to know what numbers Im pumping out

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Originally Posted by Daega

I dunno why ppl think monk aoe is bad. I parse higher than almost any other class with monk aoe. Better than SMN and BLM. Full GL3, all our buffs, and PB+RB I'm parsing almost 1000-2000 sometimes depending on how many mobs there are. Of course you can only do that so often but even without PB you can still do a crap load, just make sure you use purification and Invigorate as necessary.

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If you're parsing higher than casters it means they're not using cooldowns or have a bad rotation. Especially SMNs just wipe the floor with everything, easily the top dps at the moment if played to it's potential.