9 Coke required now? (or other)

I don't think you know what a troll is.....just because I disagree with your point of view doesn't mean I'm trolling you.

A troll post would look a little more like
"I just want to make sure that if SE reads this thread that not everyone is a whiner/complainer and wants everything handed to them. Just because negative Nancy is the loudest, doesn't make her right. The smarter crafters realize that while these items do require tokens to purchase, a crafter can purchase them via the auction house. However I guess I should keep my mouth shut and let you spew your garbage from your short sightedness because then prices may fall, making it even cheaper."

It would have been much better to have the two star item itself require the coke to make. So a chestpiece could require 7 coke, gloves could require 3 or 4, and so on. Also if they would slightly raise the stat caps on items it would help to make materia and crafted items desirable. As it stands right now grade III STR, VIT, INT materia are fairly worthless because most pieces you cannot even add +1 on a piece of armor unless you would like INT for your warrior or STR for your blackmage.

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Originally Posted by AriaS

Seems very high. Vanya trousers for DRG require 27 of Coke, Animal Fat and one more item which seems too high. Over 3000 tokens to make one.

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Wow, that's the first item I've seen cost 3.6k tomes. What. The. HELL. Yoshi, are you insane?

Also, I can't believe there's people here who don't know their ass from their face. Just go away, please. Reika stop responding to them.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

Wow, that's the first item I've seen cost 3.6k tomes. What. The. HELL. Yoshi, are you insane?

Also, I can't believe there's people here who don't know their ass from their face. Just go away, please. Reika stop responding to them.

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Originally Posted by Kamaru

I did find out some more info after looking into crafting a set of gear for my bard. I believe all the brd gear (except for the tunic) require two 2 star materials. The vanya gear only requires one for all except the pants AND you can use it on multiple classes so maybe that should be the focus of some fuss. I won't craft a piece that requires 2 two start mats and I'll agree that the time (SPENT ON MAKING GIL OR FARMING DUNGEONS) is not worth it in that case.

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Originally Posted by Kamaru

Reika, I completely agree with you that the pieces that require two 2 start materials is not is not balanced when casters can 5/6 pieces with only one of those materials, and it can be used on multiple jobs. If they were(and need to) to equalize the materials (maybe even make drg/mnk/brd gear a little cheaper since they can't share) then no I don't I don't think the current price of coke is to much. But not all pieces require two materials and it's those pieces that I believe are worth crafting vs farming dungeons.

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Did you level scholar all the way to 50 just so that this thread would be even more funny?

Added the suggested balancing solution to first post. Should have done that when I made it.

This is a quick way for people who want to rush to gear up their fresh level 50s for high end raiding. 8 FC members get together and run CM 10 times = 8000 philosophy tokens = 64 cokes/whatever. Within a day the new level 50 is decked out in full level 70 HQ crafted gear and is ready for Coil.

Yes because it`s no problem finding 8 people who have 10 hours of play time a day, and who all agree to mindlessly farm CM 10 times.

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Originally Posted by ProxyTooMuch

This is a quick way for people who want to rush to gear up their fresh level 50s for high end raiding. 8 FC members get together and run CM 10 times = 8000 philosophy tokens = 64 cokes/whatever. Within a day the new level 50 is decked out in full level 70 HQ crafted gear and is ready for Coil.

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Surely you mean quickly gearing up with darklight gear then going in and smashing winding coils, because thats what really happened on your new servers, because you can ignore crafting completely and do just that.

Or, are you prepared to show off all that hq il70 crafted gear you "quickly" prepared with your 10 cm runs a day.

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Originally Posted by Reika

Surely you mean quickly gearing up with darklight gear then going in and smashing winding coils, because thats what really happened on your new servers, because you can ignore crafting completely and do just that.

Or, are you prepared to show off all that hq il70 crafted gear you "quickly" prepared with your 10 cm runs a day.

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I know two guilds on my server who are on Coil turn 4-5 and the majority of their gear is crafted + over melded. *shrug* (There may be other guilds but I just don't know of them)

Also I finished lvling CUL to 50 yesterday and will start on leatherworking/weaving next - not because I feel some self entitlement to being able to craft the absolute best items for the least amount of effort, but because I found that I actually get enjoyment out of crafting in this game.

As someone with 50 all crafts on a non-legacy server whos made probably 40-50 two star gear pieces, I think for the most part the costs of these gear pieces are fine if not only slightly too high.

This gear is basically without exception better than darklight. Yes, the gear itself may in some instances have less wanted stats, but when it does those stats can always be melded heavily. In the end each piece almost always is stronger than darklight with 5 melded materia.

Because of this I think its fine for most pieces to cost 9x125 tomestones, it makes it pretty difficult to get the best possible gear (besides allagan/myth token gear) and I think thats a good thing.

I do have issue with a lot of recipes being 18 and the legs for casters/dragoon being 27. I think thats pretty ridiculous, over 2k tomes for a ring is a bit crazy. I think all pieces should be 9 materials with the exception of heavy darksteel legs/chest since these are two piece gear, i think those should be 14-15 each.

I was thinking 9 is too much as well, until I realize how fast people are getting their darklight equipment.
Give it time. In a month or 2, people will have nothing to spend philosophy stones on and end up selling the materials cheap.

people who cant think and see what it is they really did with the change will be the death of the crafting system. Of course there are items people wont bother making, vanya pants especially. Its because the system is not balanced. Increasing every thing to 9 is not balanced, or smart, or the way to go. Sure, the things should cost more than they did prior to making everything +9, but that isn't the solution. I have a better solution that they should have been doing before they released the damn game on the first post.. Only heavy darklight armor and flanchards are properly priced, and can stay the same price with tuning of the recipes.

The only real reason they did this is because these recipes didn't get any of their attention prior to launching the game, so they do something to make it so only the insane would go for. So you have a few guilds that have people with apparently no lives and pump themselves up on caffeine to boringly run whatever dungeon they ran 15 or so times a day so they can make themselves some shiny stuff not even hugely greater than darklight until you go through even MORE grinding to make materia, even MORE to level up the crafts (probably willingly supplied by botters, since some don't even have gathering classes up high enough to gather the mats for leveling everything to 50??). what of it? they should balance it all around those people, with no lives? how about no.

Of course, SE is likely looking at the very tiny handful of people who roll over and accept their idiocy and think its all good. And yes, there are only a tiny handful that actually thing what they did is cool. tiny.

Hi, a question, if I may:

Amdapor Keep gear < Darklight gear

DL gear (?) best crafted non-HQ gear

DL gear < best crafted HQ gear + materia

best crafted HQ gear + materia < Tome of Mythology gear (a lot better, or so and so?)


Please fill the question marks and correct me where I err.
Thank you.

They could always raise the price of darklight gear to be in line with crafted gear. 2250 per jewelry, 1125 for others. Only because castrum is so awesome.

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Originally Posted by Reika

The only real reason they did this is because these recipes didn't get any of their attention prior to launching the game, so they do something to make it so only the insane would go for. So you have a few guilds that have people with apparently no lives and pump themselves up on caffeine to boringly run whatever dungeon they ran 15 or so times a day so they can make themselves some shiny stuff not even hugely greater than darklight until you go through even MORE grinding to make materia, even MORE to level up the crafts (probably willingly supplied by botters, since some don't even have gathering classes up high enough to gather the mats for leveling everything to 50??). what of it? they should balance it all around those people, with no lives? how about no.

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They did not increase the amount because the recipes were not getting attention m-.-m
Yes, people with ilvl 70 gear must be insane because the only option to get mats is to grind a dungeon......please stop ignoring that the items can be bought from the AH. Supply is greatly increasing everyday because people are dumping the stones on mats while they farm for mytho, just like I said they would. This will be the first week I've capped out mytho stones (my 2nd week running end game), and I have purchased one piece of DL gear and used the rest for my relic. Yet, I have ilvl 70 rings(2), wrist, neck, earring, drg boots, drg head, and vanya robe (all 5xmelded). I started ARR with 20k in my pocket and no cracked materia or any kind of super rare material that made me millions. My gear I bought with money I made from crafting (you don't have to be a no lifer crafter either lol someone is getting angry). I get to play for maybe 3 hours a night and I'm not going to spend weeks grinding out DL in a dungeon (I have so little time that I haven't even done the class quest for my DoW/DoM classes except for drg and some whm)

The only thing you are right about, the same thing I said several pages back, is that they need to balance how many 2 star mats each pieces requiers (drg pants taking 3 is a joke). Other than that you're wrong. 9 items is not to expensive and it's going to get even cheaper. Expect to put in more effort(ie materia and more tomestones) for better gear.

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Originally Posted by Reika

So you have a few guilds that have people with apparently no lives and pump themselves up on caffeine to boringly run whatever dungeon they ran 15 or so times a day so they can make themselves some shiny stuff not even hugely greater than darklight

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It takes less runs to farm the 9 Coke for Heavy Darksteel than it does to buy Heavy Darklight. You're being very judgemental and unpleasant yet you don't even have your facts straight. I can't actually see a single person in this thread who has disagreed that these items should be cheaper to make, yet you continue to talk down to many, many people for agreeing with you?

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Originally Posted by SeleneVenizelos

It takes less runs to farm the 9 Coke for Heavy Darksteel than it does to buy Heavy Darklight. You're being very judgemental and unpleasant yet you don't even have your facts straight. I can't actually see a single person in this thread who has disagreed that these items should be cheaper to make, yet you continue to talk down to many, many people for agreeing with you?

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You actually have to run CM 12 times for enough tokens to buy 9 of any of them. 1125 for 9, cm gives 100. I have also already said quite a few pages ago that Heavy darksteel armor and flanchards are the ONLY pieces that that 9 coke are worth it, all others it is not, and that they should balance the all the recipe requirements amounts equivilant to their slot type and slot usage. It is also on the front page now, at the bottom of the first post. And do you think people sell Darksteel ingots based on those 2 pieces? lol no, of course not.

But as long as people defend magically changing EVERY mat to require 9 token materials thus making almost all of them not at all cost effective over darklight, ESPECIALLY vanya pants, instead of doing actual balancing, yea i'm just going to talk down to them if you think thats what i'm doing, because they aren't using their heads. What they did was not for balance, what they did was to cock block the crafter, and some fools accept it. the 9 coke required was just the first part of the thread title. Everything requires 9, even things that you would never make because it requires 9, hi-elixers and vanya pants in particular.

It is identical to the blanket suspention SE is apparently doing right now on people with way too much gil on new servers. Instead of you know, doing what they need to do, in this case investigating, they just rape everyones accounts who even look remotely involved with an account suspension, like they just raped all of these recipes blindly instead of doing proper balancing.

So Devs can respond to hat hair and miqote butt threads, but not end game crafting threads? This does not bode well.

Holy crap, I just checked the darksteel haubergeon and compared it to the darklight cuirass, the darklight cuirass is a bit less than 100 tokens under the double amount of a regular 495 token piece while the darksteel is TWICE the amount of coke than the regular 1125 token piece, that is 2250 TOKENS! 2250!

Was SE high when they calculated this crap?

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Originally Posted by SeleneVenizelos

It takes less runs to farm the 9 Coke for Heavy Darksteel than it does to buy Heavy Darklight. You're being very judgemental and unpleasant yet you don't even have your facts straight. I can't actually see a single person in this thread who has disagreed that these items should be cheaper to make, yet you continue to talk down to many, many people for agreeing with you?

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It also costs 2x as much Peacock Ore to make one ring as it does to make Heavy Darksteel armor that takes up 2 slots. Makes sense, right?

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Originally Posted by mmcsky

Holy crap, I just checked the darksteel haubergeon and compared it to the darklight cuirass, the darklight cuirass is a bit less than 100 tokens under the double amount of a regular 495 token piece while the darksteel is TWICE the amount of coke than the regular 1125 token piece, that is 2250 TOKENS! 2250!

Was SE high when they calculated this crap?

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Hi-elixirs require 9 lime sulphur to make 3, or roughly the same cost as an Astrolabe...

This whole tome ingredient system seems shoddy and hastily thrown together. What bothers me the most is I've not seen a single community rep response acknowledging this gamebreaking issue. The didn't even take 30 minutes to rebalance the two-star crafts after making everything require tomestones but crafters have to deal with this nightmare system for months.

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Originally Posted by Laeore

In terms of long-term effects on server economies, I think this is a good thing (assuming they fix the lack of gil generation) with the perspective from rolling on a new server. I can ding 50 and buy a set of the crafted gear. I don't have to farm whatsoever. The benefit is a trade-off for large amounts of gil on the market board.

IMO, this is why it should be more expensive than Darklight. Nobody has to level crafting, and there should be a trade-off in ease of effort for self-sufficiency. When geared, players can run dungeons for more Tomes to pick up mats to sell. Your buddy can't play until November, but he wants to raid with you when he gets on? Well you can help him buy his way in.

There are far more pro's to this system than a system of complete self-sufficiency, from an economic standpoint. I think people are stuck in the idea of "I pick crafting to supplement my main", but this is a different crafting system that is more in the sandboxy direction. When I played a Blacksmith/Tailor in Ultima Online, crafting was a different game. Your goal is perfecting your crafts, and making gil. The goal in UO's system was never to be a great adventurer by way of your crafted gear. There is a lot of profit to be made for savvy trades/crafts-men here. I like that.

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I'm going to take this idea and run with it by adding this: It's not like you can't run a CM twice or three times a day for 9 cokes. 15 CM runs = 1 body or legs for tanks (although Vanya users... my apologies as your stuff will take longer (but less with a friend or group!)) and it's really not as bad anymore now that i look at it from that perspective...

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Originally Posted by Nenin

Hi-elixirs require 9 lime sulphur to make 3, or roughly the same cost as an Astrolabe...

This whole tome ingredient system seems shoddy and hastily thrown together. What bothers me the most is I've not seen a single community rep response acknowledging this gamebreaking issue. The didn't even take 30 minutes to rebalance the two-star crafts after making everything require tomestones but crafters have to deal with this nightmare system for months.

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But you see responses to hat hair, vanity stuff, miqote butts, and other stuff that is far less important and probably not as easy for the devs to change.

Still no word about fixing this silly & non-sense biased?

I looked at the cost for Astral Bracelet.
It wants 18 peacock ore.
18 Peacock Ore costs 18 * 125 = 2,250 tomestones of philosophy

Each CM run gives you 100. Therefore you will need to run CM 22.5 (23) times to have the material for one bracelet.

After 23 CM runs you have choice:
1 Astral Bracelet
18 Peacock Ores -> Sell @ 50k/ea (low value) = 900,000 gil
Buy: Darklight bracelet, Choker, Earring, 2x Rings, Sash

So after 23 Runs, I would have to think: Which makes me better, 1 Astral Bracelet, or 5 Darklight Jewelry + Sash ?

(The twelve help us if we crash during the craft attempt).

I shall simply move forward on the assumption that Astral does not exist in game ^.^;

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Originally Posted by Aemun

So Devs can respond to hat hair and miqote butt threads, but not end game crafting threads? This does not bode well.

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you know what, that is what I worry.
some retards brought out some retard questions. guess what, get DEV reply.

the only reason is, DEV don't know how to answer, or DEV has their plan.
i think coke will be drop item from small mobs. that is courage ppl to kill all the mobs in the dungeon.

I just now started looking into making rings and stuff, and was shocked to find out it takes 2250 tomestones worth of mats to make ONE ring. Are you serious? My first reaction was simply: "This has got to be a mistake, someone dropped the ball somewhere..."

Pure stupidity, nothing else to say about it.

Edit As a side note, all those less important issues that got dev responses were posted on the General forums instead of the appropriate sub-forum. Maybe it's time for this thread to migrate over to the General Discussion where they're actually reading shit. I didn't even know about this ridiculousness until recently, and it has me pretty pissed off.

The cost is just not in line with what you get for it.
Equipment which requires 3375 tomestones for 1 piece is a joke.

Let every armor and weapon require 9 materials but not more, accessories 4-5 materials and reduce the cost from 125 to 60-70 Tomestones per material.
And give trash mobs in dungeons a chance to drop these materials or a small number of Tomestones.

I also hope we will get some craftable ilvl90 gear in one of the next updates.

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Originally Posted by Asiaine

I looked at the cost for Astral Bracelet.
It wants 18 peacock ore.
18 Peacock Ore costs 18 * 125 = 2,250 tomestones of philosophy

Each CM run gives you 100. Therefore you will need to run CM 22.5 (23) times to have the material for one bracelet.

After 23 CM runs you have choice:
1 Astral Bracelet
18 Peacock Ores -> Sell @ 50k/ea (low value) = 900,000 gil
Buy: Darklight bracelet, Choker, Earring, 2x Rings, Sash

So after 23 Runs, I would have to think: Which makes me better, 1 Astral Bracelet, or 5 Darklight Jewelry + Sash ?

(The twelve help us if we crash during the craft attempt).

I shall simply move forward on the assumption that Astral does not exist in game ^.^;

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Then when u hit turn 4 of coils u will be just like everyone else.... Going for the astrals for vitality melds

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Originally Posted by Kyana

The cost is just not in line with what you get for it.
Equipment which requires 3375 tomestones for 1 piece is a joke.

Let every armor and weapon require 9 materials but not more, accessories 4-5 materials and reduce the cost from 125 to 60-70 Tomestones per material.
And give trash mobs in dungeons a chance to drop these materials or a small number of Tomestones.

I also hope we will get some craftable ilvl90 gear in one of the next updates.

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No thanks. In ffxi when abyssea started dropping all the end game mats, economy went to shit

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Originally Posted by Cuban

No thanks. In ffxi when abyssea started dropping all the end game mats, economy went to shit

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And atm its WAI right?

Lol, dont think everyone is able to sell runs/buy gil/be a good trader. Atm the prices for 'usefull' 2 star = 1m. A 'normal' rank 50 DoW atm has like 300-500k, and thats if he managed to save a lot. Even if they did have 1m, would you use 100% of your gil for one item? And even if you did, is that a balanced economy?

Those mats should be droppable, or have a different token for em or smthg, else those items will only be for:
1. rich crafters
2. Run sellers
3. RMT users

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Originally Posted by Kyana

The cost is just not in line with what you get for it.
Equipment which requires 3375 tomestones for 1 piece is a joke.

Let every armor and weapon require 9 materials but not more, accessories 4-5 materials and reduce the cost from 125 to 60-70 Tomestones per material.
And give trash mobs in dungeons a chance to drop these materials or a small number of Tomestones.

I also hope we will get some craftable ilvl90 gear in one of the next updates.

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I also hope crafters receive equal attention in upcoming updates, as in non-housing, combat-related crafts.

There was no mention of adjusting this tomestone crafting system in 2.05. However, the difficulty and tome yield adjustments should increase supply, while the spiritbond adjustment means that ilvl 70 gear, including 2-star, will become bound outside of Coil, which should decrease supply.

Do we think prices will drop or rise following the patch?

If you read this devs please don't change the recipes. You already have made everything so easy and fast there is nothing left to do but make these....

I will be making an NQ vanya robe when they come out with vanity slots. That is all. ^^

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Originally Posted by RedMoko

If you read this devs please don't change the recipes. You already have made everything so easy and fast there is nothing left to do but make these....

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Autofollowing my tank while my fairy literally solo heals AK and I play rune factory 4 or pokemon X on my 3ds isn't "hard". I only have to actually play for the bosses, which is less than 5 mins total per run and runs are like ~23 mins.

@Shiyo, if you would DPS, it would go faster :)
On topic, prices for HQ Vanya now is 3x lower than last week.
Which for me, is a good sign.

They need to fix the pants recipes. There is no reason why pants should cost twice as much as everything else.

Other than that, I don't see the need to fix the 9 item requirement because it's pretty obvious that they implemented it this way to force players to actually trade with each other/buy off AH instead of trying to be self-sufficient. These kinds of gear are expensive because you can get them without actually running dungeons. Someone with a lot of gil (who knows how they earned it, maybe a fulltime crafter who doesn't bother with dungeons) could just buy the armor off the AH and call it a day.

Crafted gear w/ full Materia meld is actually either just as good, or slightly better than, BC gear at the moment.

So if you have a lot of money to blow, or a lot of time to grind it out, it's a worthwhile investment, because you're pretty much NEVER going to replace any of it. ESPECIALLY the accessories, which actually OUTCLASS BC gear when fully melded.

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Originally Posted by BlossomRose

Crafted gear w/ full Materia meld is actually either just as good, or slightly better than, BC gear at the moment.

So if you have a lot of money to blow, or a lot of time to grind it out, it's a worthwhile investment, because you're pretty much NEVER going to replace any of it. ESPECIALLY the accessories, which actually OUTCLASS BC gear when fully melded.

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How come?

Are there any sets out there done that would show how crafted gear is actually better or the same as AF2/Allagan? Even with someone elses idea for melded Vanya vs DL it was barely enough to say "it's better". I get kinda confused with the materia caps so I'm not sure what the optimal scenario would be, but if anyone can provide an example of crafted vs DL or BC it would be better than just saying "it's better! really".

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Originally Posted by BlossomRose

Crafted gear w/ full Materia meld is actually either just as good, or slightly better than, BC gear at the moment.

So if you have a lot of money to blow, or a lot of time to grind it out, it's a worthwhile investment, because you're pretty much NEVER going to replace any of it. ESPECIALLY the accessories, which actually OUTCLASS BC gear when fully melded.

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Everything you said is completely wrong except for accessories which are only a survivability increase and not a DPS or healing increase increase.