Maybe it's time for a casual "strike" if not complete departure.

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Originally Posted by AllenThyl

And which Final Fantasy game offered a huge amount of customization but no combat, or at least no combat that one actually had to engage with a little bit?

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Wait... there are more FF MMOs? Can I have a link pls?

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Originally Posted by yesnt

Wait... there are more FF MMOs? Can I have a link pls?

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Just FF11.

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Originally Posted by MisterNublet

I love how people seem to forget there are casual equivalent to most "non-casual" content that is released along side it.

Normal Raids = Savage
Trials = Extreme
Alliance Raid = No "non-casual" equivalent. We could say Chaotic fits that bill now, but AR got 4 bosses vs Chaotic's 1 boss.
Dungeons = There hasn't been a "hard" version in ages.

The only content that doesn't have a casual equivalent to are the Ultimates. I don't do ultimates either, because my job won't allow me time to be in a static for it, I know I'll never get the weapon glam or titles from it, but I'm not on the forums crying that there isn't an easier version of it so I can have the glams mailed to me.

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The repeatability being? People repeat Extreme/Savage/Ultimate/Chaotic for gear and glamour, in some cases, versions that can be dyed. Some even include mounts not found in the normal equal. Why in your mind is it either "hard content" or "game gives free content"? There's easily able to be an in-between.

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Originally Posted by AllenThyl

Then why play a video game (and even more, this particular one) in the first place, if playing the video game itself isn't the interesting thing?

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This can be said about any game literally.
Any game requires people to learn how to play it.

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Originally Posted by yesnt

Wait... there are more FF MMOs? Can I have a link pls?

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???
Is there some hidden camera?
So people played some Final Fantasy which didn't have a lot of customization and features combat content throughout the whole game, including some actual roadblocks. And because of that experience, they went and played the (2nd) Final Fantasy MMO, which has a bit of character customization but not much and also features quite a bit of combat content the whole game (the MSQ is exclusively for combat classes). Yet the lack of customization and the the necessity of combat content are severe product defects, but they still give their money to this service and not other offerings that fulfill more of the stated requirements because ... it's a Final Fantasy?
???

W-what? That's as non-sequitur as it can get. Especially when the expectation is "Final Fantasy, but MMO", then FF14 is ironically perfect, because it features a lot of combat content (and the main quest is all combat content), some side content to dabble in other activities, even getting gear for the combat side, and some powerful optional bosses. And yet it's the release of an optional boss that gives an optional hairstyle that's seen as "unacceptable".

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Originally Posted by AllenThyl

???
Is there some hidden camera?
So people played some Final Fantasy which didn't have a lot of customization and features combat content throughout the whole game, including some actual roadblocks. And because of that experience, they went and played the (2nd) Final Fantasy MMO, which has a bit of character customization but not much and also features quite a bit of combat content the whole game (the MSQ is exclusively for combat classes). Yet the lack of customization and the the necessity of combat content are severe product defects, but they still give their money to this service and not other offerings that fulfill more of the stated requirements because ... it's a Final Fantasy?
???

W-what? That's as non-sequitur as it can get. Especially when the expectation is "Final Fantasy, but MMO", then FF14 is ironically perfect, because it features a lot of combat content (and the main quest is all combat content), some side content to dabble in other activities, even getting gear for the combat side, and some powerful optional bosses. And yet it's the release of an optional boss that gives an optional hairstyle that's seen as "unacceptable".

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How is this an acceptable reply to someone asking for a link to FF11...? Good lord man, calm down.

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Originally Posted by AllenThyl

but they still give their money to this service and not other offerings that fulfill more of the stated requirements because ... it's a Final Fantasy?

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Yes

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Originally Posted by AllenThyl

Especially when the expectation is "Final Fantasy, but MMO", then FF14 is ironically perfect, because it features a lot of combat content (and the main quest is all combat content), some side content to dabble in other activities, even getting gear for the combat side, and some powerful optional bosses. And yet it's the release of an optional boss that gives an optional hairstyle that's seen as "unacceptable".

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No

Explaining not necessary since people have explained it to you with multiple posts before me and you are just here to ragebait.

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

How is this an acceptable reply to someone asking for a link to FF11...? Good lord man, calm down.

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How is "wait, are there more FF MMOs?" an answer to the question "And which Final Fantasy game offered a huge amount of customization but no combat, or at least no combat that one actually had to engage with a little bit?", especially when my question was literally quoted before? Especially when "the lore and world of Final Fantasy" was used as an argument, like it's a single monolith and not a 30 something year old series of different, lore-wise mostly independent games. Even more especially when the FF14 world and lore is also completely separate from all other installments.

The casual strike is actually happening:

https://www.thegamer.com/final-fanta...low-1-million/

They NEVER wanted casuals in their game. They always tried their best to keep casuals off their game. Elitism always existed here (and in any game), but here it was kinda... Controlled.

But casuals is who keeps online games working. Casuals is who buys most licenses and pays most subs. But if the said casual is not happy with the game, s/he'll just play other game. If casuals drops FFXIV, it will be played by a dozen hardcore players, whose subs won't be enough to keep a single server online.

Casuals leaving the game is a problem Yoshi-P will have to worry about if he want to keep his job.

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Originally Posted by yesnt

Yes

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And now you know the reason why the developers don't need to spend precious developer resources to develop "casual" content.

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Originally Posted by yesnt

No

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Yeah, video game addiction. The "enshittification" of services is the direct result of consumers mindlessly and recklessly hanging on a business despite being unhappy with the service. That's not the flex you think it is.

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Originally Posted by AllenThyl

And now you know the reason why the developers don't need to spend precious developer resources to develop "casual" content.



Yeah, video game addiction. The "enshittification" of services is the direct result of consumers mindlessly and recklessly hanging on a business despite being unhappy with the service. That's not the flex you think it is.

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ok.

+10 characters

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Originally Posted by Collin_Sky

God yes, the quality of Duty Finder would increase significantly if you guys did this.

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Without us, casuals, there won't be a Duty Finder to begin with. Half-dozen hardcore players won't keep a server online.

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Originally Posted by miraidensetsu

Without us, casuals, there won't be a Duty Finder to begin with. Half-dozen hardcore players won't keep a server online.

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Wasn't the same thing said about the healer strike regarding how it would effect the Duty Finder for "everyone else"?

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Originally Posted by yesnt

ok.

+10 characters

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Tell me about how I'm the one "ragebaiting" again...
No wonder this forum is filled with ELI5 level discussion and people who peaked in high school.

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

Wasn't the same thing said about the healer strike regarding how it would effect the Duty Finder for "everyone else"?

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The difference is that if all casuals leave, server population would drop to less than 10% of it.

And let's be real: if FFXIV player count drops to under 70k active players on all servers, you bet they'll start closing the less populated and transfer players to other servers. Drop more than this and entire datacenters will be turned off. And that with more spaced patches, less active development, less events, less everything.

Until the day that the last server would be turned off for good.

If all healer mains dropped the game, other players could assume this role. If all casuals drop off the game, it's the end of this game.

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Originally Posted by miraidensetsu

The difference is that if all casuals leave, server population would drop to less than 10% of it.

And let's be real: if FFXIV player count drops to under 70k active players on all servers, you bet they'll start closing the less populated and transfer players to other servers. Drop more than this and entire datacenters will be turned off. And that with more spaced patches, less active development, less events, less everything.

Until the day that the last server would be turned off for good.

If all healer mains dropped the game, other players could assume this role. If all casuals drop off the game, it's the end of this game.

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All games will close down for good sooner or later. There's no escaping it.
Question is just when that will happen.
Will it be next year? In 5 years? 10? Who knows.
So when that happens I do hope that people who feel so incredibly attached to said game won't get too depressed.
So instead of getting upset and arguing with one another, play the game and have a good time while it lasts.
Because it might end sooner than expected. So better to enjoy as long as it lasts.
And if the game isn't fun anymore? No one's keeping you to stay around. Go and find other games that brings more joy.

I've experienced MMOs close down, MMOs that I've loved so I know that nothing lasts 4ever.
And some of those game were the companies biggest money makers at the time they closed.
So nothing's safe no matter how good it does.

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Originally Posted by miraidensetsu

The difference is that if all casuals leave, server population would drop to less than 10% of it.

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but they dont lmao.

Maybe there needs to be a 'hard' date for a 1 day strike or something, If enough actually do it devs will take notice.

I.E say, Tue 14th of Jan is no FFXIV day or something. 1 day of the player base putting our heels in to show SE things are not working and just play something else for that single day.

Not going to happen ofcourse as getting the playerbase to agree on something like that AND have them follow through is unlikely lol.

Do wish i could sit down with Yoshi-P/the team for a few hours and hash out the problems im seeing with the game i love and enact meaningful change.

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Originally Posted by Sililos

Maybe there needs to be a 'hard' date for a 1 day strike or something, If enough actually do it devs will take notice.

I.E say, Tue 14th of Jan is no FFXIV day or something. 1 day of the player base putting our heels in to show SE things are not working and just play something else for that single day.

Not going to happen ofcourse as getting the playerbase to agree on something like that AND have them follow through is unlikely lol.

Do wish i could sit down with Yoshi-P/the team for a few hours and hash out the problems im seeing with the game i love and enact meaningful change.

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I don't see it working because the game is subscription based, they still make money even if people stop playing the game for a day

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Originally Posted by OrianThormond

You're taking all of your worst experiences in the game and extrapolating from that that everybody feels that way but it's just not true. Haven't you had positive experiences too?

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You know they're not the only person to ever have a negative experience, yes? You know that, right? A lot of people have negative experiences.

The reason a literal strike wouldn't do anything is that you simply won't get enough people involved to have a marked effect on queue times or concurrent player count.

If someone did want to be disruptive, the way to do it is to swamp Limsa with players and their pets. WHMs would be particularly effective. For example, Aether could start at Adamantoise, then world transfer down the list alphabetically, spending a few minutes at each. Not too sure what this would accomplish, although all those involved would get to play with other people in the true spirit of an MMO.

I'm certainly not advocating for this, not least because I imagine there's a way of reading ToS that would prohibit it.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

The reason a literal strike wouldn't do anything is that you simply won't get enough people involved to have a marked effect on queue times or concurrent player count.

If someone did want to be disruptive, the way to do it is to swamp Limsa with players and their pets. WHMs would be particularly effective. For example, Aether could start at Adamantoise, then world transfer down the list alphabetically, spending a few minutes at each. Not too sure what this would accomplish, although all those involved would get to play with other people in the true spirit of an MMO.

I'm certainly not advocating for this, not least because I imagine there's a way of reading ToS that would prohibit it.

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Just so I understand correctly, you would rather do a soft DDoS on the servers by not only flooding Limsa with people, but also flooding the server transfers and thus ruining other peoples' experiences, just to get the point across to say that casual players feel like that they aren't getting enough content FOR them, instead of just speaking with their wallet?

Glad I don't hang around Limsa.

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Originally Posted by AllenThyl

Then why play a video game (and even more, this particular one) in the first place, if playing the video game itself isn't the interesting thing?
This isn't a rhetorical question. It lies at the very heart of all these discussions. And only video games have these types of discussion. Why do so many people join Frontline just to afk? "For the rewards", yes. But what's the use of the rewards? What need does someone who has fundamentally no interest in participating in the very activity that they actively queued for, for job xp?
The same posters who complain about the severe lack of customization and individuality are also the same people who have all the excuses in the world for not doing even the bare minimum in ShB+ content. There are games out there with tons more customization, and no battle content (meaning no need for any battle content skill expression, no need for memorizing a video game boss script and moveset). Why aren't these games the more appealing venue when they are by every metric the obvious choice?

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Your issue comes from misconstruing people’s arguments. No one is saying that they want no combat content, but they are saying that they want more casual, easier combat content, while right now the devs are both focusing more on hardcore content and at the top of that are locking even more rewards behind it.

Also your point about it being also an issue people have with other games doesn’t really make sense, considering that most games have difficulty option which can make entirety of the game casual or hardcore, even games without it like Souls games, have enough ways to make the combat casual. In case of FFXIV though, there is no option to switch hardcore content to casual difficulty level (unless we are talking about unsyncing which comes years after the initial release so doesn’t count for content drought)

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Originally Posted by MrJPtheAssassin

Im in the same boat as you for the most part. I enjoy raiding and doing savage and ultimate but I don't want it all the time. I want more chill content to play and have fun with. That why SB and ShB was my favorite expacs bc they had a decent mix of hard content with relaxing content. On off days I would be in Bozja and Eurakeing farming for my relics. Doing EW and now DT, I all do when I log in is raid and I have no real reason to long in other than raid. It has made the game dull and boring. Sucks honestly....

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It actually sounds like we should be getting something of a similar scope to Bozja and Eureka with patch 7.2, which currently seems to be aiming for release some time in March.

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Originally Posted by VanillaWafer

Just so I understand correctly, you would rather do a soft DDoS on the servers by not only flooding Limsa with people, but also flooding the server transfers and thus ruining other peoples' experiences, just to get the point across to say that casual players feel like that they aren't getting enough content FOR them, instead of just speaking with their wallet?

Glad I don't hang around Limsa.

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As I noted explicitly, I'm not advocating for anything. Just noting a strike won't work, and recalling a tactic used by players in other games when confronted by a remote and increasingly out of touch studio.

Might actually cheer up the denizens of Limsa, most of them look bored.

So there's two types of people I think when it comes to casuals in this game:

1.- Is the group that takes their time, have a busy life, or would rather play other games so they slowly get through the content of the game.

2.- There's this other person, who has exhausted every single corner of the game, and has finished or is uninterested in: All the Golden Saucer minigames, collecting Triple Triad cards, doing all 3 100 floors of Deep Dungeons, getting all the rewards in Eureka and Bozja, doing all PvP content, getting all the combat, crafting and gathering jobs to level 100, doing all side quests, all role quests of the last 3 expansions, customizing their FC or personal house, know every dungeon, trial, raid and 24 man raid that's not current by the back of their hand, have finished Island Sanctuary and then go claim they are playing the game casually.

If you are the 2nd type of person, you're NOT playing the game casually, you've invested hundreds of hours into this game and are bored out of your mind. The next step of things to do would be to do the more challenging content (extremes, savages and ultimate) of the game but a lot of people are anxious, uninterested and just get really angry the players who enjoy anything challenging get rewards, even when the new chaotic raid doesn't make it exclusive at all.

Think about how 90% of the game is casual and dominates any challenging part of the game, where as the challenge of an extreme and savage are time dependent. Once 7.2 hits, you won't be able to experience what it was like to do M1S-M4S due to power creep, you'll be able to tank through most damage and skip mechs like crazy.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

...the challenge of an extreme and savage are time dependent. Once 7.2 hits, you won't be able to experience what it was like to do M1S-M4S due to power creep, you'll be able to tank through most damage and skip mechs like crazy.

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For many of us, the experience of attempting M1S-M4S now would be that we cannot do it. I keep making the point that those who find such content easy fail to understand that they are very good at something that most players in this game are not. I used to run for my high school, but that didn't mean I could represent England in the Olympic 800 meters. I also didn't mock those who ran slower than me.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

a lot of people are anxious, uninterested and just get really angry the players who enjoy anything challenging get rewards, even when the new chaotic raid doesn't make it exclusive at all.
.

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imo the simple solution to this issue would be adding more interesting rewards to casual content, when hardcore players are getting all the cool rewards (like mounts, glams and this time even hairstyles) while casual players are getting scraps (you can’t even farm newest alliance raids glam due to the stupid “one item per week limit”), it’s kinda obvious that there are going to be complaints when at most 10% of players have access to the best rewards, while everyone is paying the same amount of money for the game (it’s not a win or lose competition but a service people pay for, so they expect to get good stuff no matter if they are casual or hardcore)

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

For many of us, the experience of attempting M1S-M4S now would be that we cannot do it. I keep making the point that those who find such content easy fail to understand that they are very good at something that most players in this game are not. I used to run for my high school, but that didn't mean I could represent England in the Olympic 800 meters. I also didn't mock those who ran slower than me.

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This argument makes no sense. Getting good enough to beat savages isn't as hard as running in the olympics for your country, it's a leap in logic. You think we're making fun of you for not being able to do challenging content, but we're not, we're making fun of you because you're angry there's any meaningful challenging content at all.

As a metaphor:

You have a large zone that's dedicated to 95% mini-golf courses that people can casually enjoy, but there's a 5% golf course that's made for people who want to slightly challenge themselves, and at the end of these they get cool rewards that they can sell to you, and you're angry because you are unwilling or unable to participate to get those rewards and want to organize a strike and threaten to "Lose a customer" so they stop doing any meaningfully challenging courses at all.

This, despite 95% of the golf courses and rewards made for you.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

This argument makes no sense. Getting good enough to beat savages isn't as hard as running in the olympics for your country, it's a leap in logic. You think we're making fun of you for not being able to do challenging content, but we're not, we're making fun of you because you're angry there's any meaningful challenging content at all.

As a metaphor:

You have a large zone that's dedicated to 95% mini-golf courses that people can casually enjoy, but there's a 5% golf course that's made for people who want to slightly challenge themselves, and at the end of these they get cool rewards that they can sell to you, and you're angry because you are unwilling or unable to participate to get those rewards and want to organize a strike and threaten to "Lose a customer" so they stop doing any meaningfully challenging courses at all.

This, despite 95% of the golf courses and rewards made for you.

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Tbh the moment rewards hardcore players expected to get from their content (shadow wolf and cruise chaser), ended up in online store instead (still easy to get for them unlike what happens in case of hardcore rewards and casual players) they were complaining much lounger and angrier than I’ve ever seen casual players complain about hardcore rewards.

So I think that hardcore players aren’t really in position to criticise anyone for complaining about rewards not being put where they want them to be.

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

It is regularly said about the FF14 community (the thing you call a monolith) that it's a helpful and friendly community. Aidorouge is saying their experience isn't like that. Where's the generalization?

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Me: "the playerbase is not a monolith"
You: "the thing you call a monolith"
Also you: makes a generalisation that the FF14 community is not helpful and friendly
Also you: "Where's the generalization?"

Very amusing response overall, thank you!

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Originally Posted by AntoniusQuil

imo the simple solution to this issue would be adding more interesting rewards to casual content, when hardcore players are getting all the cool rewards (like mounts, glams and this time even hairstyles) while casual players are getting scraps (you can’t even farm newest alliance raids glam due to the stupid “one item per week limit”), it’s kinda obvious that there are going to be complaints when at most 10% of players have access to the best rewards, while everyone is paying the same amount of money for the game (it’s not a win or lose competition but a service people pay for, so they expect to get good stuff no matter if they are casual or hardcore)

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Just put this logic to any other game. Let's say in Elden Ring you want the Valkyrie set but you cannot beat Malenia, even with friends. You complain loudly on a forum that this optional superboss is too hard and you really want those rewards, then say that people who cannot beat superbosses get scraps. Except FF14 has you, if you can't beat her, but you want her rewards you can grind in-game money and pay for it in gil. So you're not "getting scraps", you have another way of getting them.

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Originally Posted by AntoniusQuil

Tbh the moment rewards hardcore players expected to get from their content (shadow wolf and cruise chaser), ended up in online store instead (still easy to get for them unlike what happens in case of hardcore rewards and casual players) they were complaining much lounger and angrier than I’ve ever seen casual players complain about hardcore rewards.

So I think that hardcore players aren’t really in position to criticise anyone for complaining about rewards not being put where they want them to be.

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TBH I'm not sure what you're talking about. There's the "hardcore" way of getting it (grinding the Chaotic) and there's the "casual" way of getting it (Paying for it in Gil). So you're not being gatekept out of anything

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Originally Posted by Volgia

This argument makes no sense. Getting good enough to beat savages isn't as hard as running in the olympics for your country, it's a leap in logic. You think we're making fun of you for not being able to do challenging content, but we're not, we're making fun of you because you're angry there's any meaningful challenging content at all.

As a metaphor:

You have a large zone that's dedicated to 95% mini-golf courses that people can casually enjoy, but there's a 5% golf course that's made for people who want to slightly challenge themselves, and at the end of these they get cool rewards that they can sell to you, and you're angry because you are unwilling or unable to participate to get those rewards and want to organize a strike and threaten to "Lose a customer" so they stop doing any meaningfully challenging courses at all.

This, despite 95% of the golf courses and rewards made for you.

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I realize you can't remember everyone's views over hundreds of posts, but I'm not personally angry about rewards in the slightest. I am disputing the claim that anyone can do savage content if they simply try hard enough. It isn't true.

The funny thing about the "skill issue" statement, usually used as an intended insult, is that it's often accurate. I do not have the skill to complete savage on-cycle, and there is absolutely nothing I can do about that. Just as there was a limit to how fast I could run the 800, there's a limit to how fast I can process-recall-react in a video game. Why is this hard to understand?

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Originally Posted by Volgia

Just put this logic to any other game. Let's say in Elden Ring you want the Valkyrie set but you cannot beat Malenia, even with friends. You complain loudly on a forum that this optional superboss is too hard and you really want those rewards, then say that people who cannot beat superbosses get scraps. Except FF14 has you, if you can't beat her, but you want her rewards you can grind in-game money and pay for it in gil. So you're not "getting scraps", you have another way of getting them.



TBH I'm not sure what you're talking about. There's the "hardcore" way of getting it (grinding the Chaotic) and there's the "casual" way of getting it (Paying for it in Gil). So you're not being gatekept out of anything

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1. There comes in the big difference between mmos and other games. In Elden Ring you have so many ways to turn Malenia into casual fight : over levelling, spirit ashes, player summonig - some players even do the fight by themselves for their summoners, in the end pretty much everyone is able to beat her without being forced to spent hours or days on learning the fight and being able to play on the high skill level. (Not to even mention games which simply have difficulty settings)

In MMOs on the other hand due to stuff item level sync and other stuff, the only way available for a casual player to get the rewards from hardcore content is to stop being casual and learn to play on the hardcore content level

2. Making the hair style and one mount from chaotic sellable is actually a move in the good direction I’m really happy about. I’m talking about general hardcore vs casual discussion where before chaotic whenever I’ve seen anyone propose making hardcore rewards sellable, it always brought up lots of complaints from hardcore players saying that it will cheapen the rewards and that casual should simply “git gud”

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Originally Posted by AntoniusQuil

the only way available for a casual player to get the rewards from hardcore content is to stop being casual and learn to play on the hardcore content level

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Most of what is considered hardcore can be unsynced in 14. I know in WoW, you just simply outgear / out level previous expansions. Can't really speak to other MMO's.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

trimmed.

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If you ever need help running content, do not hesitate to reach out to me. I'm not the best player by any means, but I enjoy helping others. I also do all Jobs on my main, though I'm not that good at healing but am willing to do so if needed. I do MSQ, Normal and Alliance Raids

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

I realize you can't remember everyone's views over hundreds of posts, but I'm not personally angry about rewards in the slightest. I am disputing the claim that anyone can do savage content if they simply try hard enough. It isn't true.

The funny thing about the "skill issue" statement, usually used as an intended insult, is that it's often accurate. I do not have the skill to complete savage on-cycle, and there is absolutely nothing I can do about that. Just as there was a limit to how fast I could run the 800, there's a limit to how fast I can process-recall-react in a video game. Why is this hard to understand?

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I'll just have to agree to disagree here, because unless you have some disability, extremes and savage mechanics aren't to dissimilar from normal trials and raids. Some of them don't telegraph, some of them have different timings, but it's hard to limit yourself like you would be physically limited to do any physical sport. This is a matter of skill and can be learned.

If you don't want to learn, or find it not worth your time that's completely fine. Also, if you're not angry about these changes then I am not championing you to leave, I want people who demand every reward and every piece of content be tailored to them or else removed to go away. It's a frustrating conversation we've been having for years.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

I'll just have to agree to disagree here, because unless you have some disability, extremes and savage mechanics aren't to dissimilar from normal trials and raids. Some of them don't telegraph, some of them have different timings, but it's hard to limit yourself like you would be physically limited to do any physical sport. This is a matter of skill and can be learned.

If you don't want to learn, or find it not worth your time that's completely fine. Also, if you're not angry about these changes then I am not championing you to leave, I want people who demand every reward and every piece of content be tailored to them or else removed to go away. It's a frustrating conversation we've been having for years.

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Who demands this? Literally who?

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Originally Posted by Sad-Panda

He is turning into Ion Hazzizkostas right before our eyes and we all know how well that ended for WoW.

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That is not the contempt you apparently meant it to be. Ion Hazzikostas still appears to be Game Director for World of Warcraft. And, since there are a lot of posters here who appear to believe that WoW is in a much better place than FFXIV at the moment. Perhaps Naoki Yoshida should continue to "turn into" him?

Also, the numbers from LuckyBancho are meaningless, as Square Enix already has more accurate internal numbers, including revenue numbers. Any decisions will be made on information none of us, including LuckyBancho, will ever see.

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Originally Posted by Sad-Panda

I hate to say this but Yoahi-P is becoming increasingly out of touch with the majority of the player base.
He is turning into Ion Hazzizkostas right before our eyes and we all know how well that ended for WoW.

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Are we talking about the MMORPG that still has around 7 to 8 million active subscribers and just had a very successful expansion launch that players have been very happy with? That WoW? The one that is still headed by one Ion Hazzikostas? That WoW? The game that routinely gives players of all kinds, no matter how casual or hardcore, heaps of things to do every major and minor patch and clear roadmaps of when to expect what? That WoW?

How old is your information on WoW? Because it sounds like you're still on Legion through Shadowlands era talking points.