Why do casual players seem entitled to cosmetic items added in game?

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Originally Posted by Oizen

This has been an ongoing issue with the game since Endwalker began.
I have no problem with harder content getting glams, hairs and mounts to sell, but casuals dont get shit to do.
That said there is a large sect of casual players who do not even play the casual content we did get so the line does have to be drawn at some point. If your gameloop involves afking in limsa every day you shouldn't just have free items mailed to you

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The irony is that nobody is saying items should be mailed to you. The problem is they expect to give the casual player nothing but bread crumbs and expecting us to cheer it. No relic, no exploratory zone. Nothing, not a damn thing to do. Heck, this expansion has been out about six months, and I've unsubscribed for three of them, and I'm already caught up on what little I had to do from before.

This game just sucks for us right now. And what makes it worse is this whole thread is dumb. Just buy it for 5 million gil when the market tanks. Bam, the issue is solved. The problem is that the whole context of that takes 5 minutes to achieve. And that's what's wrong with the game.

And I'm going to unsubscribe again soon.

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Originally Posted by Gurgeh

I think your right. Fundamentally your either one of those people who get from a new account to savage in a matter of months. Or you'll never have what it takes to do savage.
There is no converting casual to 'raider' (alliance and normals isn't being a "raider")
Hence the choices made with chaotic and criterion. The know it's a futile aspiration. So invest in the raiders.

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I'm inclined to disagree saying Normal and Alliance raids aren't raiding. I have tried my hand at Savage, Criterion, and the new Chaotic. Normals and Alliances are significantly easier raids, but still easily enjoyable. But overall I see your point and agree.

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Originally Posted by Kandraxx

The first problem is with adding 1% sweat group content with rewards locked behind it to a 99% single player game. If I learned one thing while playing this game then it was that people here rather pay on a boosting site than to deal with the agony of finding and grinding through people in a very passive-aggressive and artificial manner, not because the content would be especially hard to do.

Using the term casual as a measure for skill level is kinda misleading, at least as far as FF14 is concerned.

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Oh? You don't have a 24 person static? Tsk tsk... /s

In a way, I should be grateful to this game. I used to be a completion seeker in every game I played, but this game has slapped me in the face often enough, made me say often enough, "Oh no. There is no way I am putting myself through this much misery for just one mount / hairstyle / minion". Whether we are talking about grinding bicolor gemstone FATEs and Hunt Trains every night for potentially years to get an achievement or rare mount, or items that "would have been nice to have" being behind content I just have neither the static on hand for nor the desire to spend night after night on prog when I could be doing things I actually find more entertaining.

But me not getting upset about it anymore doesn't mean I do not sometimes think these devs we have are making some really weird choices in what content they bring out in what patch order, for which player demographic, or what rewards are behind what content.

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Originally Posted by Eyrilona

In a way, I should be grateful to this game. I used to be a completion seeker in every game I played, but this game has slapped me in the face often enough, made me say often enough, "Oh no. There is no way I am putting myself through this much misery for just one mount / hairstyle / minion". Whether we are talking about grinding bicolor gemstone FATEs and Hunt Trains every night for potentially years to get an achievement or rare mount, or items that "would have been nice to have" being behind content I just have neither the static on hand for nor the desire to spend night after night on prog when I could be doing things I actually find more entertaining.

But me not getting upset about it anymore doesn't mean I do not sometimes think these devs we have are making some really weird choices in what content they bring out in what patch order, for which player demographic, or what rewards are behind what content.

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Yes. This.
They used to be really good at 'mostly' (barring old housing) making systems that didn't encourage unhealthy choices. Event items in store are fairly reasonable (they are no less than they should be. But that's pretty rare these days)
Small inventories isn't just about selling retainers, I believe.

And XIV definitely had smoothed off some of the edges of my completionist perfectionist tenancies.
ARR relics did that pretty quickly. (Shame I learned it so late with MB)

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Originally Posted by Gurgeh

Yes. This.
They used to be really good at 'mostly' (barring old housing) making systems that didn't encourage unhealthy choices. Event items in store are fairly reasonable (they are no less than they should be. But that's pretty rare these days)
Small inventories isn't just about selling retainers, I believe.

And XIV definitely had smoothed off some of the edges of my completionist perfectionist tenancies.
ARR relics did that pretty quickly. (Shame I learned it so late with MB)

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For completionists and achievement hunters? They really haven't been, ever. 1000 battlecraft, tradecraft and fieldcraft leves in ARR, 5000 in HW, 10000000 gil from levelquests (also 2.0), even the 10mil MGP achievement back in patch 2.5 when fashion report didn't exist and you could actually still end up MGP negative on saucer minigames and cactpots.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

Begging for scraps is "entitled" now?

Man, the hardcore crowd really is a different kind of beast, and a gluttonous and insatiable one at that.

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Let's be real, the casual crowd would have been pissing themselves over hair being locked behind savage-tier content even if they got 2 new dungeons and a relic to farm.

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Originally Posted by hydralus

Let's be real, the casual crowd would have been pissing themselves over hair being locked behind savage-tier content even if they got 2 new dungeons and a relic to farm.

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But... there presumably will be a relic to farm and new dungeons coming up. That won't effect how anyone feels over the hairstyle being locked behind chaotic... I don't think there even is a point your statement was shooting for.

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

But... there presumably will be a relic to farm and new dungeons coming up. That won't effect how anyone feels over the hairstyle being locked behind chaotic... I don't think there even is a point your statement was shooting for.

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Just trying to keep the topic on point instead of veering off on this "Casuals need more content", which is a different beast all together. I agree with the sentiment but it has no bearing on the actual topic. There's also several people implying that if there were casual things to grind they wouldn't care about the glams/hair being savage rewards which, well, we all saw what happened with the axolotl mount.

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Originally Posted by hydralus

Just trying to keep the topic on point instead of veering off on this "Casuals need more content", which is a different beast all together. I agree with the sentiment but it has no bearing on the actual topic. There's also several people implying that if there were casual things to grind they wouldn't care about the glams/hair being savage rewards which, well, we all saw what happened with the axolotl mount.

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Exactly people are trying to conflate a lack of casual content (which is a valid complaint) with the idea that people seem to be unwilling to accept that rewards they may want may not always be directly accessible to them based on the content they do

A lack of casual content is not a reason for why people feel like their content cadence should allow them to get everything they want. There is also the fact that the hair is crashing in price. It’s 10 million on my server now. If you are unwilling to spend 10 million on it do you even really want it

I personally think locking customization mechanics (like dying armor) and now customization options behind harder content shouldn't happen and is kind of short-sighted on the devs part. Imo, folks who do the harder content should be demanding better rewards anyway.

Yeah, sure, the price is dropping right now, but it's gonna be ridiculous in like a year when no one does the content anymore. It's going to be hard for newer players to get it. It's just going to be another Memoria EX type of situation. You can occasionally find a group to do it nowadays, but it's not exactly easy. There's really not a lot of reasons to do the content.

CBU3 has been in this weird mindset for a while now where they prioritize on getting people to do the content now with one-time rewards without any regard to how that plays out long term.

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Originally Posted by Fuyuqi

I mean casual players seem largely fine with mounts and shiny weapons and gear being locked behind hard content. Hairstyles are just a bit different because it's baseline character customization and honestly I agree with them even as a hardcore raider. To me it feels like locking an eyebrow shape or eye colour behind raid content and it just doesn't feel like something that should be a 'prestige' or flex item.

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Hell no who told u them lies please...I seem casuals complain about ultimate weapons and savage weapons being locked behind difficulty. XD someone feeding you false lies my guy

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Originally Posted by Collin_Sky

Even so, it's purchasable on the market board, so why is it such a problem?

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Childishness, in a word. They want it and they want it now, and evidently it hasn't occurred to them that maybe the devs intended the hairstyle as a reward for players who tackle harder content and to encourage participation, rather than a freebie the g-pose community are automatically entitled to by virtue of logging in. The fact that it's a long and feminine hairstyle is what's making them lose their minds over it.

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Originally Posted by Collin_Sky

So chaotic came out, and I've seen multiple posters on the forums making statements along the line of

"The hairstyle should not have been added in chaotic when SE knows lots of casual players will want it"

Why do some people feel entitled to cosmetic items such as this? I genuinely don't get it. It's obviously there either: as a reward to players doing difficult content, or as a means to encourage people to step out of their comfort zone.
Even so, it's purchasable on the market board, so why is it such a problem?

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people pay money to play and enjoy this game. yet despite that some of this content is completely cut off to them. they have every right to be annoyed.

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

people pay money to play and enjoy this game. yet despite that some of this content is completely cut off to them. they have every right to be annoyed.

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But that’s not the question being asked

Saying “there is too much hardcore content and not enough casual content” is a totally fair point. But it’s not the point being raised

The point being raised is “why do people believe that their specific content interests should entitle them to everything they want” because it’s too specific to the person to properly suit everyone.

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Originally Posted by MrJPtheAssassin

That is highly unlikely as time goes on. In fact, I see the price skyrocketing pass what it is now bc this content will die off. The ppl who is farming the fight now will stop since the exp of pfing this fight is a nightmare and as soon as they get everything they want they will completely stop. When that happens it will get harder and harder to find 24 players to even do the fight and less ppl will do it. With less ppl doing it means there will be fewer hairstyles gotten(remember the hairstyle doesn't drop 100% of the time, its a rare drop and to buy it with tokens you have to clear the fight 46 times!) With fewer hairstyles going around the ppl do get it will raise the price since there are only a few on the MB. So no the price will not eventually go down, it will most likely stay high or even go higher as time goes on.

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im not sure about this. the criterion dungeon rewards went from 50>30>20>10 mil and i have not seen them climb. that could be because criterion is more accessible but if CODCAR can be unsynced then ppl will unsync the rewards next expansion

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

But that’s not the question being asked

Saying “there is too much hardcore content and not enough casual content” is a totally fair point. But it’s not the point being raised

The point being raised is “why do people believe that their specific content interests should entitle them to everything they want” because it’s too specific to the person to properly suit everyone.

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but thats not even what ive said. yes, part of the reason its cut off is because its overly difficult. but they should have every right to feel entitled to items in a game they pay for and the amount of work SE is making them do for those rewards is unfair (IMO) if we are gona break this down to "why do casuals want my rare savage stuff!!!" because they pay for the game and getting those things make them feel like they're getting thier moneys worth

I didn't understand it either, when I read your post. Then I went and googled it, and now I kinda get it.
People have wanted a nice long hairstyle for so damn long. They released one and then tied it to raidslop.
Still, a moot point. Just buy it on the mb. If it's too expensive for you right now while it's new, just give it time to come down. Stuff always drops in value. I will admit though, that unless it also releases with the foray or something, this will absolutely SUCK in a year when nobody does Chaotic anymore and there's no way to get that hair. The fomo is on, what a great game!

...I do have to give credit where it's due though. The hair looks nice. Honestly thought it was modded when I first saw it. They did a damn good job. More like that please.

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

but thats not even what ive said. yes, part of the reason its cut off is because its overly difficult. but they should have every right to feel entitled to items in a game they pay for and the amount of work SE is making them do for those rewards is unfair (IMO) if we are gona break this down to "why do casuals want my rare savage stuff!!!" because they pay for the game and getting those things make them feel like they're getting thier moneys worth

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How can you ever incentivise content if all items need to be immediately obtainable by everyone because they pay the entry sub

Does my sub entitle me to an FRU weapon because that SGE weapon do be looking pretty nice

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

but thats not even what ive said. yes, part of the reason its cut off is because its overly difficult. but they should have every right to feel entitled to items in a game they pay for and the amount of work SE is making them do for those rewards is unfair (IMO) if we are gona break this down to "why do casuals want my rare savage stuff!!!" because they pay for the game and getting those things make them feel like they're getting thier moneys worth

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With MMOs you are paying for access to the game and to support further development, whether or not our money is actually used for this is an entirely different discussion. Nowhere does it state that this entitles you to any and all rewards obtainable in it.
If you want it, do the work for it.
That's how it works in pretty much every other game besides walking simulators, but somehow XIV is the only one where people have gotten comfortable to demand rewards for simply existing.

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Originally Posted by Arzalis

I personally think locking customization mechanics (like dying armor) and now customization options behind harder content shouldn't happen and is kind of short-sighted on the devs part. Imo, folks who do the harder content should be demanding better rewards anyway.

Yeah, sure, the price is dropping right now, but it's gonna be ridiculous in like a year when no one does the content anymore. It's going to be hard for newer players to get it. It's just going to be another Memoria EX type of situation. You can occasionally find a group to do it nowadays, but it's not exactly easy. There's really not a lot of reasons to do the content.

CBU3 has been in this weird mindset for a while now where they prioritize on getting people to do the content now with one-time rewards without any regard to how that plays out long term.

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at what point does it end, though?
The chaotic alliance raid drops entirely new armor sets. Does that not fall under customization?

I don't see what other rewards they can use to entice players into doing this sort of content. If the fight offered nothing whatsoever, what would be the point to run it anymore than one time just to say you tried it and/or completed it

of course that's an extreme example, and people could mention minions/mounts/etc. but you could argue that also falls under customization but I know what you're getting at

I do wonder if at some point this will be something you can unsync, and if that question has been answered anywhere because if it can then at least at some point it'll be something people will grind, like Memoria Misera EX (especially because you can Duo it)

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

How can you ever incentivise content if all items need to be immediately obtainable by everyone because they pay the entry sub

Does my sub entitle me to an FRU weapon because that SGE weapon do be looking pretty nice

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i am gona be real i dont see people who are sprouts running around demanding ultimate weapons because they respect that those weapons are for hardcore raiders. but why hardcore raiders should be the ones who get access to character customization like hairstyles or makeup is not going to go well with the player who cares the most about it, the casual limsa go-er the reason ppl are mad about the mount and hairstyle is because its the kind of thing targeted directly at them yet its not even for them because they dont have a group that can facilitate them climbing the ladder of progression

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Originally Posted by CVXIV

at what point does it end, though?
The chaotic alliance raid drops entirely new armor sets. Does that not fall under customization?

I don't see what other rewards they can use to entice players into doing this sort of content. If the fight offered nothing whatsoever, what would be the point to run it anymore than one time just to say you tried it and/or completed it

of course that's an extreme example, and people could mention minions/mounts/etc. but you could argue that also falls under customization but I know what you're getting at

I do wonder if at some point this will be something you can unsync, and if that question has been answered anywhere because if it can then at least at some point it'll be something people will grind, like Memoria Misera EX (especially because you can Duo it)

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

i am gona be real i dont see people who are sprouts running around demanding ultimate weapons because they respect that those weapons are for hardcore raiders. but why hardcore raiders should be the ones who get access to character customization like hairstyles or makeup is not going to go well with the player who cares the most about it, the casual limsa go-er the reason ppl are mad about the mount and hairstyle is because its the kind of thing targeted directly at them yet its not even for them because they dont have a group that can facilitate them climbing the ladder of progression

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What content then is “allowed” to be used to incentivise hardcore content

Because we had this same song and dance with the P12S mount

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

What content then is “allowed” to be used to incentivise hardcore content

Because we had this same song and dance with the P12S mount

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That's the Axolotl, isn't it? I remember that being a big thing people complained about lmao
and I'm not sure because a lot of things can be viewed as customization, because the mounts more or less all function the same it just depends on the player's flavor

I'd love to own the Axolotl personally, it's my favorite animal but I never cared that it was unlocked via savage because I knew that one day if I really wanted it I'd just have to do that fight whether it be unsyncing it doing it for real

To be clear, I agree with you lol

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

What content then is “allowed” to be used to incentivise hardcore content

Because we had this same song and dance with the P12S mount

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well the devs have no excuse to be tone-deaf to the players at this point... they KNOW that they want more RP stuff like customization. and they KNOW raiders want to do more damage. so imo that should be the divide. raids should reward raiding stuff and there needs to be a steady flowing stream of "casual stuff" to keep the simpler player subbed. i miss the days when i was the weird one for raiding. now im the weird one for glamming

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

well the devs have no excuse to be tone-deaf to the players at this point... they KNOW that they want more RP stuff like customization. and they KNOW raiders want to do more damage. so imo that should be the divide. raids should reward raiding stuff and there needs to be a steady flowing stream of "casual stuff" to keep the simpler player subbed. i miss the days when i was the weird one for raiding. now im the weird one for glamming

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Okay then that circles back to the original problem. What’s “casual” enough for you, and is that casual enough for the majority of players.

For example is juneo easy enough? There are multiple threads on here implying that it isn’t. What about the hair from DRN, DRN isn’t that hard but people complained it’s too deep in Bozja and it had a low drop rate. What about the fruit glider fate mount. People complained it’s too long of a grind to achieve

So where is the sweet spot that allows everyone to get everything THEY want based on how long THEY play and what content THEY do. We can’t put every released reward ever in dungeons

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

What content then is “allowed” to be used to incentivise hardcore content

Because we had this same song and dance with the P12S mount

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It's sooo easy? What works for savage without pissing off the casual base? What works for ultimate without pissing off casual?
iLvl. Stats
Shiny Weapon
Mount

They should have offered an undyable version of an existing glam, but a higher iLvl. 740 or something. I can hear it now "oh but we cant do that because then they won't buy/grind the gear in the coming blah blah content"
Yeah well, what do you expect when you offer content to a part of your player base that is already spoilt for content and it's rewards.
They don't want mounts or weapons because savage and ultimate?
Yeah well, what do you expect when you offer content to a part of your player base that is already spoilt for content and it's rewards.

Most of us on the excluded side of this content. (Excluded because we feel we will never clear it, the people playing it don't want us trying, certainly not in their party, is just because it's no fun dealing with PF "get business done or abandon" culture, we think this content PATENTLY SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN MADE. It should have dismissed in 30 seconds at the water cooler.

You know, if they'd offered me a chance at an ultimate level shiny Weapon (I don't even 'hope' that ultimate is achievable for me) this Extreme clearer (not farmer) really really might have kept trying, seen if PF farming got better. About 10 clears is ALL you are going to get me to attempt.

This 75, 99 business? No F way. Because I've got to put all that effort it to clear once and get nothing for it yet? Then try Farm PFs and find I hate even the 1st reclear and PF farm culture.

I know, people are thinking, "well if you don't like the game???!!"
I mean "charge the game" I'm told in other forums "it's not a keep you playing game. It's a play other games game"
Make it 10 not 70. Make 20 not 99. And now I THINK you might find a lot of that "know your shit or FCK Off" mentality melting away.
This is really not the cutting edge of psychology.

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Originally Posted by Gurgeh

It's sooo easy? What works for savage without pissing off the casual base? What works for ultimate without pissing off casual?
iLvl. Stats
Shiny Weapon
Mount

They should have offered an undyable version of an existing glam, but a higher iLvl. 740 or something. I can hear it now "oh but we cant do that because then they won't buy/grind the gear in the coming blah blah content"
Yeah well, what do you expect when you offer content to a part of your player base that is already spoilt for content and it's rewards.
They don't want mounts or weapons because savage and ultimate?
Yeah well, what do you expect when you offer content to a part of your player base that is already spoilt for content and it's rewards.

Most of us on the excluded side of this content. (Excluded because we feel we will never clear it, the people playing it don't want us trying, certainly not in their party, is just because it's no fun dealing with PF "get business done or abandon" culture, we think this content PATENTLY SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN MADE. It should have dismissed in 30 seconds at the water cooler.

You know, if they'd offered me a chance at an ultimate level shiny Weapon (I don't even 'hope' that ultimate is achievable for me) this Extreme clearer (not farmer) really really might have kept trying, seen if PF farming got better. About 10 clears is ALL you are going to get me to attempt.

This 75, 99 business? No F way. Because I've got to put all that effort it to clear once and get nothing for it yet? Then try Farm PFs and find I hate even the 1st reclear and PF farm culture.

I know, people are thinking, "well if you don't like the game???!!"
I mean "charge the game" I'm told in other forums "it's not a keep you playing game. It's a play other games game"
Make it 10 not 70. Make 20 not 99. And now I THINK you might find a lot of that "know your shit or FCK Off" mentality melting away.
This is really not the cutting edge of psychology.

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I mean that’s exactly the point I’m making. You say it’s so easy just offer x y and z but we have an example literally last expansion where z was offered for a savage raid and people complained about being locked out of it.

You can’t pander to everyone’s expectations of what THEY personally want based on what content THEY do and the time THEY are willing to invest

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

What content then is “allowed” to be used to incentivise hardcore content

Because we had this same song and dance with the P12S mount

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Why do those who enjoy hardcore content need incentives? I thought the point was to "beat the game." If success beating or enjoying the fight isn't reward enough in itself and these folks want to flex, give them a title. We could have a contest to come up with some suitable ones.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Why do those who enjoy hardcore content need incentives? I thought the point was to "beat the game." If success beating or enjoying the fight isn't reward enough in itself and these folks want to flex, give them a title. We could have a contest to come up with some suitable ones.

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You are basically asking “why are games as a universal concept the way they are”

Games use rewards to drive you towards a particular thing. Like would you be fine if you completed a long game spanning gathering quest in an open world RPG and your reward was a pat on the back. No you expect a reward

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Why do those who enjoy hardcore content need incentives? I thought the point was to "beat the game." If success beating or enjoying the fight isn't reward enough in itself and these folks want to flex, give them a title. We could have a contest to come up with some suitable ones.

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There is no reason to give raiders nothing though.
They are normal players who play an mmo to get something out of it. No reason to deny them rewards for them.

The hairstyle I agree is kinda too much or at least in the sense that it's the only good looking one in since... Island sanctuary?
Exclusive armor, shiny weapons, titles and mounts though I side with snow and the others that it is completely fine and correct to lock them behind the harder content and frankly almost no one has a problem with it.

Even the Axlotl mount that is brought up here. What was the outcry? Twitter?
I frankly don't remember there being such a big one. A few voices sure like always but not much because frankly there are so many mounts in the game that it didn't really matter.
Hairstyles though are so few and a good junk in a cash shop that it feels far more impacting.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Why do those who enjoy hardcore content need incentives? I thought the point was to "beat the game." If success beating or enjoying the fight isn't reward enough in itself and these folks want to flex, give them a title. We could have a contest to come up with some suitable ones.

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Be reasonable, we're still talking about mmo players here. They have no concept of doing something just for fun.

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Originally Posted by Voidmage

There is no reason to give raiders nothing though.
They are normal players who play an mmo to get something out of it. No reason to deny them rewards for them.

The hairstyle I agree is kinda too much or at least in the sense that it's the only good looking one in since... Island sanctuary?
Exclusive armor, shiny weapons, titles and mounts though I side with snow and the others that it is completely fine and correct to lock them behind the harder content and frankly almost no one has a problem with it.

Even the Axlotl mount that is brought up here. What was the outcry? Twitter?
I frankly don't remember there being such a big one. A few voices sure like always but not much because frankly there are so many mounts in the game that it didn't really matter.
Hairstyles though are so few and a good junk in a cash shop that it feels far more impacting.

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Given the hair is tradeable, you can buy it off the marketplace anyway.
Even the casual player should be able to amount sufficient gil to eventually purchase it if they are determined.

Or patient until it becomes within their money range. Whatever comes first.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

You are basically asking “why are games as a universal concept the way they are”

Games use rewards to drive you towards a particular thing. Like would you be fine if you completed a long game spanning gathering quest in an open world RPG and your reward was a pat on the back. No you expect a reward

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I would 100% be fine with not getting a reward, assuming the content was engaging. If the content was not engaging, I wouldn't do it. I'm playing a game, not hoarding digital trinkets.

I recognize I am completely out of step with the community on this one, but the only time in 14 I ran content I wouldn't otherwise have done was three back-to-back runs of Copied Factory to get the boots.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Be reasonable, we're still talking about mmo players here. They have no concept of doing something just for fun.

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Apparently an MMO is actually a job and by putting in sufficient hours at that job you get paid in hairstyles.

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Originally Posted by Collin_Sky

So chaotic came out, and I've seen multiple posters on the forums making statements along the line of

"The hairstyle should not have been added in chaotic when SE knows lots of casual players will want it"

Why do some people feel entitled to cosmetic items such as this? I genuinely don't get it. It's obviously there either: as a reward to players doing difficult content, or as a means to encourage people to step out of their comfort zone.
Even so, it's purchasable on the market board, so why is it such a problem?

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How can you feel entitled to dictate who deserves what in a video game?

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Be reasonable, we're still talking about mmo players here. They have no concept of doing something just for fun.

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Um... that's self contradicting. To be MMO players, by definition, we play MMOs. We sit down and spend hours a week interacting with a PC or game console, and when we switch them off at the end of a session, no matter if we just achieved the greatest performance possible in game, the real world isn't going to put some reward item into our hands for that. So if we'd never do anything for fun, why is anyone doing that?

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Originally Posted by Nabril

How can you feel entitled to dictate who deserves what in a video game?

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The people who do the thing deserve the reward for the thing. All things should offer rewards. It's really that simple.

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

im not sure about this. the criterion dungeon rewards went from 50>30>20>10 mil and i have not seen them climb. that could be because criterion is more accessible but if CODCAR can be unsynced then ppl will unsync the rewards next expansion

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Honestly, I don't even know what could be put on the MB from Crit duns...most of the rewards were meh to begin with I feel. All I know the only thing I wanted from Crit duns was the glowy versions of the tombstone weapons in the last one that came out and I know you cant buy that. As for CODCAR being unsync, we honestly don't know what the devs plans for the long term for this type of fight and Im not going to assume they will make it super easy or not to farm in the future.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

Given the hair is tradeable, you can buy it off the marketplace anyway.
Even the casual player should be able to amount sufficient gil to eventually purchase it if they are determined.

Or patient until it becomes within their money range. Whatever comes first.

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That may be true but some of us are thinking about the future not the right now. Sure the hair can be gotten from the MB and there are probably a bunch of them where the price is being driven down BUT what about 6 months to a year from now? I can tell you that this fight doesn't have what it takes to last that long esp with how its reward system works. One reason you see a lot of hair on the MB is that the fight is new and ppl getting that first-time bonus. This means that grinding the currently to buy the hair only takes few clears but after the first timer is dried up and very few of them are left you looking at around 46 clears to just buy the hair, assuming you are not lucky and don't have it drop or win the roll on it. Im personally thinking about newer plays who come into the game 6 months to a year from now. They may see this hair and really want it but find there very few on the MB and the ones that are up on there are in the range of 50-100 mil. They try to run CODCAR but find ppl just don't run it anymore and it's a chore to even get a party together(since it requires 24 ppl) to teach them the fight and clear it 46 times. Hairstyles are very important since the character creator sucks in ff14, you have very few options in making your character and hair is one thing you have options for. On top of that, it's so rare for us to get a really nice hairstyle so having it locked in a 24 raid that is around savage levels and also has a short shelf life sucks and I don't agree with it at all. If this fight needed another reward on top of the 2 mounts, 730 gear(BiS), and minion then add something else maybe a 3rd mount or a glowy version of the tombstone weapon(like they did for the last crit dun) but not a hairstyle.

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

The people who do the thing deserve the reward for the thing. All things should offer rewards. It's really that simple.

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Character customization options should not be tied to difficult content. It's really that simple.