Yoshi P - Your next live letter, DT msq and the damage to the brand

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Originally Posted by Zackneifein

Thank you, I know of FFVIII. Esther isn't even close to being as advanced as Solution 9.
Only Lindblum is about steampuck. Alexandria and Bloumecia are all about pure medieval fantasy. And Terra is one of the most advanced and scifi place ever seen in any Final Fantasy, the whole plot of Terra is about soul and lifecycle.

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Terra is more alien and other worldly and S9 doesn't try to catch any of that as it's just generic cyberpunk with soul tech added in. The FF9 references just seem to be souless idea taken from notes of the game.

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

Terra is more alien and other worldly and S9 doesn't try to catch any of that as it's just generic cyberpunk with soul tech added in. The FF9 references just seem to be souless idea taken from notes of the game.

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There is more Terra in the Living Memories than S9. And I can agree with your second part, themes and ideas are taken from FF9 but not well implemented.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

Well then the "Brand damage" was happening in Endwalker, not in Dawntrail. Dawntrail in fact saved FFXIV for me because now I have fun playing it. EW was just so boring I saw myself leaving if DT dropped the ball on content. I've been in this forum before, and I was super highly critical of this game both in MSQ and Content. I don't think the MSQ in DT is perfect and I have my crits on it, but it's hard to discuss with so much disingenuity going on here.



That's what you're implying though, that there was so much damage it hurt the brand, and I don't know how you can measure that other than the fact that you feel that you are right in that this expansion sucked and the VAST majority of players hate it, it's such a confirmation bias argument, man. We'll only know if the brand was hurt if there's massive unsubbing, or if no one buys next expansion.



I mean that's your opinion, I didn't find them to be terribly written to the point we should send the writer to a backroom.

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It's not my opinion, it's objectively poorly written. In art there exists both subjectivity and objectivity in critique. The writing, on a purely technical level, not just a personal taste, is very poorly written. It's to the point of being a semester 1 creative writing course's don'ts list.

You ask how it's damage, so let me explain, FF14 is a game with the core demo being players who enjoy story dense games. This is the first expac they've ever released to be received this poorly. All scoring and reviews across the web has this as the worst preforming expac. Even positive reviews are commenting on poor writing standards. When you release something that is bad around you core selling feature, it's is going to damage your brand image because in this case your brand is good story writing. A good analogue would be, KFC switching to a new chicken supplier and it's being received poorly, as in most people say the chicken now tastes bad. They don't just serve chicken at KFC, the rest of meals, sides etc are all still nice, but people go to KFC for chicken. To FF14 it's story is it's brand in the same way chicken is KFC's brand. You can as a business shift what your brand is, but that would involve some innovation in other areas which hasn't happened.

So yes DT is going to damage the FF14's brand, it's still early days so the amount of damage is currently unknown, it's unlikely to be unrecoverable damage, it's really going to depend on the quality of the post patch story content. If their story going forward doesn't absolutely slap, and I mean there can be no friction to the players because they are at a point of having almost no good will when it comes to this story. Then that can cause a major issue, especially with a major competitor releasing an expac in a month.

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Originally Posted by Malthir

It's not my opinion, it's objectively poorly written. In art there exists both subjectivity and objectivity in critique. The writing, on a purely technical standard, not just a personal taste issue, is very poor. It's to the point of being a semester 1 creative writing course's don'ts list.

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Like what can you say it's objective about Dawntrail's story? That it has characters, scenes and settings? Come on. The writing, pacing and structure is just about the same as Endwalker, divide the first zones into two to get to know their cultures, get one playable dungeon, move onto the third zone into a third dungeon and an epic trial, slow down the story until level 95 where "shit hits the fan", then slow it down again in level 97 to get the major plot points, and then on level 99 you get an extra dungeon and trial, and a final emotional zone to wrap it up. This is as objective as I can get about the MSQ.

You just don't like the story and that's completely fine.

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Originally Posted by Malthir

A good analogue would be, KFC switching to a new chicken supplier and it's being received poorly, as in most people say the chicken now tastes bad. They don't just serve chicken at KFC, the rest of meals, sides etc are all still nice, but people go to KFC for chicken. To FF14 it's story is it's brand in the same way chicken is KFC's brand. You can as a business shift what your brand is, but that would involve some innovation in other areas which hasn't happened.

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As I said before, it's structured the same way it has been for the past 2 expansions, they have not switched anything. You don't like the vibe, or the characters, that's just fine honestly.

As a matter of fact I think the only thing I will agree with you is that they need some innovation on the MSQ, cuz it was dialogue heavy, there was just so much talking and little action for me to play in the story.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

Like what can you say it's objective about Dawntrail's story?

You just don't like the story and that's completely fine.

As I said before, it's structured the same way it has been for the past 2 expansions, they have not switched anything. You don't like the vibe, or the characters, that's just fine honestly.

As a matter of fact I think the only thing I will agree with you is that they need some innovation on the MSQ, cuz it was dialogue heavy, there was just so much talking and little action for me to play in the story.

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No it's not. I've put it in other discussion with other people, but this is a textbook example of:

- Telling instead of showing the audience. This is evident all over the story there are a myriad of examples. Some of the obvious are that most of the cutscenes involve zero action, you're standing stock still while someone tell you for 5m why llama's are important to their tribe. They could have you walking through the village in this cutscene or seeing them use the llama's in ways climbing cliffs but no just static lore dumb. Then there's the other examples of being told how to feel, Wuk is brilliant isn't she. Wow Wuk is doing so well. I'm so impressed with Wuk. This isn't about hating Wuk, the problem is the writing, I shouldn't be told to be impressed by someone, your writing for that character should make me impressed by the way they do things, generally speaking as a writer you should NEVER have to tell the audience how to feel.

- Static characters, aka characters that do not grow or have any functioning development, they just snap to whatever personality the writers have decided is needed for this plot point making them do heel turns and behaviour changes constantly. The cause of this is, Poor pacing. They pad out cutscenes with long monologues repeating the same insignificant plot point multiple times over cutscenes, have long drawn out monologues that go no where or just don't advance the plot in any meaningful way, but when it comes to development they glaze over a characters emotional triggering point in a matter of 1 5s cutscene, then never mention those emotional moments again, this leads the characters to have no introspection and there for no growth.

That's just some quick examples.

You clearly didn't read what I was saying. The story is their brand, if they write a bad story then the brand suffers, regardless of how you are I feel subjectively about the writing. It's objectively poor, as per my examples above. There are many more and written by people with far better writing skills than myself.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

Like what can you say it's objective about Dawntrail's story? That it has characters, scenes and settings? Come on. The writing, pacing and structure is just about the same as Endwalker, divide the first zones into two to get to know their cultures, get one playable dungeon, move onto the third zone into a third dungeon and an epic trial, slow down the story until level 95 where "shit hits the fan", then slow it down again in level 97 to get the major plot points, and then on level 99 you get an extra dungeon and trial, and a final emotional zone to wrap it up. This is as objective as I can get about the MSQ.

You just don't like the story and that's completely fine.

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I recommend reading this thread. It very nicely explains a lot of the main objective issues with the character writing in Dawntrail.

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Originally Posted by Xellith

We waited 2 years for it and spent good money on it. If SE wants to give us refunds then Im sure a fair number would take it. If the next patches are an improvement, it still wont make up for the garbage we just paid for. We need to complain to ensure we dont get more of the same garbage going forwards. Either way, Wuk Lamat is a meme, and memes dont die easily.

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what is exactly bad about it?

dungeons amazing
raids amazing
graphic update genius
beautiful maps and sceneries
qol updates
is the fact that you dislike the story, which was fully okay, that dramatic?

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

what is exactly bad about it?

dungeons amazing
raids amazing
graphic update genius
beautiful maps and sceneries
qol updates
is the fact that you dislike the story, which was fully okay, that dramatic?

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When people see the story as a big important thing (and apparently quite a number do with all the biggering between those who liked and those who disliked the MSQ) then yes it is dramatic.

I bet that most of the FF14 players give the story quite a high priority and those who don't are in the minority.

It's fine for you to not care about the story, be it positive or negative but come on. This is FF14. There is a reason MSQ roulette has unskippable cutscenes, the expansions are ranked with the story first and the devs making such a huge deal of the expansion stories.
Most of the patch trailers have the story in the big spotlight also.

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

what is exactly bad about it?

dungeons amazing
raids amazing
graphic update genius
beautiful maps and sceneries
qol updates
is the fact that you dislike the story, which was fully okay, that dramatic?

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We are running in a circle.
You are talking as a current old player that enjoy all part of the game.
We are talking about those who only play for the MSQ (which is a LOT), and the new player, for a game that is known for it's story before everything else (like it or not, just or unjust, it's the case).

Wherever you look at, social media, website, content creator, this is the worst reviewed expansion ever and mostly because of the MSQ which is divisive. It's okay to tell new player "don't worry after ARR it's okay" and "yeah so you have another ARR after but well let's hope what come next will be okay".
I'm sure Dawntrail will be disappointing on the long term for SE, and we are in a period in video game industry where it isn't good when you disappoint expectancy, and the Final Fantasy series, XVI or Rebirth both already disappointed SE.

All that is speculating obviously, and I hope I'm wrong, but the video game industry situation is depressing, so I'm pessimistic about a lot of things.

if you dont like the story then just quit and dont keep playing ^^
apparently ff14 is not a game to cater your high standards, which is fine, since it attracts other people apparently

just go on and look for a different game for yourself but stop all that entitled complaining ^^;

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

if you dont like the story then just quit and dont keep playing ^^
apparently ff14 is not a game to cater your high standards, which is fine, since it attracts other people apparently

just go on and look for a different game for yourself but stop all that entitled complaining ^^;

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So...
You asked the question.
You got an answer.
You don't like the answer and just go straight to insulting.

Eh whatever.
Bye

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

if you dont like the story then just quit and dont keep playing ^^
apparently ff14 is not a game to cater your high standards, which is fine, since it attracts other people apparently

just go on and look for a different game for yourself

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I do. Do you know who told me ? Yoshi-P himself. That's what he want FFXIV to be, a game that don't suck all your free time like WoW.
And if I'm angry with this expansion, with this writting, with those mistakes that could have been avoided easily, it's because I care, it's because FFXIV is in my top 10 all times (and I played a LOT of game).
It's because I know the current video game industry crisis, it's because I'm afraid of FFXIV losing budget for having disappointing result and going into an infernal spiral. It's because the post-patches of Endwalker were already disappointing resulting in a big loss of subs.

It's because I think people like you who said "just like it and if you don't, stop playing but don't complain about it" are accelerating all this.
If nobody complain about the original FFXIV, if Yoshi-P didn't look up for those complaining but who where still playing the game, ARR would have never been a thing.

We are FAR, so much FAR from being in the same case as FFXIV vanilla, but we shouldn't wait to be in this state to complain, because it would be too late then.

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

if you dont like the story then just quit and dont keep playing ^^
apparently ff14 is not a game to cater your high standards, which is fine, since it attracts other people apparently

just go on and look for a different game for yourself but stop all that entitled complaining ^^;

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If you don't like the answer then just quit and stop asking ^^.

Apparently this is not a discussion that cater to your own idea, which is fine, since it attracts other people apparently

just go on and look for another thread for yourself but stop all that entitled complaining ^^;



See, I can play this game with you too, ain't it fun?

"DT msq and the damage to the brand"
Wow this is sad. The story was fine and the only one who should care about the "brand" is them, not you.

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Originally Posted by Brignadalee

"DT msq and the damage to the brand"
Wow this is sad. The story was fine and the only one who should care about the "brand" is them, not you.

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Story was fine... currently reviewing worse than any other FFXIV expansion, almost primarily due to the story. You and I have a very different idea of what fine is.

Honestly I won't even quote ServerCollaps, since this sort of attitude does not deserve it. Everyone is entitled to voice their opinion, be it bad or good and regardless of what we think, the very existence of this sort of discussion about MSQ shows that something went wrong.

This said, if you do not like MMO focusing on a story and people discussing it, you can also quit. Was it unnecessary jab? Yes. Did it make my whole message so much more childish and unreasonable? Yes. Pretty much how many of us feel about how the story was handled, not the topic of the story but the way it was presented (not to mention, which I am doing right now, really really bad voiceover for Wuk).

This said, I really do hope that instead of trolling both sides if they wish to engage in a discussion can listen and try to understand voices of the other side, instead of pretending to be 14 yo saying "Don't like it just quit". If someone is 14 yo and is more mature than that, I do apologize ^^

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Originally Posted by Nothv13

You and I have a very different idea of what fine is.

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Yeah, it was serviceable. Reviews can shove it because, let's be real, people are faster to review bomb than they will to say something positive. : /
Case and point, this entire Xpac's release thus far. Yes, the story was fine. I can understand why it was grating for some. But, this Xpac gave us a lot of QoL the game needed alongside a graphical/lighting facelift, job changes that join the QoL aspect for the better imo. I've been loving how clean some jobs feel now. I see a lot of those sour reviews only talking about the story and Wuk Lamat, and I think it's disingenuous to those that worked on many other aspects of this product.

As far as I'm concerned, the "brand" is just fine because it's being worked on by people that actually give a damn. Not their fault some people didn't take the hint when the team said multiple times this Xpac was going to be different, and even said it was okay not to like it. The team have been nothing but cool to us before and during this mess.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

I feel you could describe Endwalker just the same way with the exception of the stakes. Lack of common sense and communication, we get the final boss to give up on her mission by hugging her, we stand there while we watch someone die without doing anything... the story isn't without it's flaws but it wasn't anything too grating to do "Damage to the brand" lmao.

To me that's all a matter of opinoin, I found the storylines compelling. but if I have a real critcisims is that there are so many action scenes turned into cutscenes. You barely control your character but to drag other NPCs around, so it's a cutscene at your own pace. I have all these cool abilities and I use them on maybe 15 encounters. I find the MSQ flawed, but not because of it's characters, it's the narrative that bothers me, with such an up of quality from EW in terms of content it's kind of sad we spend so much time reading a book.

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Sorry for late reply. Meteon makes sense on our approach to her. We know her, we knew her story, we connected to meteon an not her sisters. Meteon could not be reasoned with. Meteons collective voice is true embodiment of pure unfiltered nillisism. Its why the endsinger had to die. Now im not saying endwalker is not without its fault...but the story was way more compelling than wtf ever DT was trying to sell.

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Originally Posted by Zackneifein

We are running in a circle.
You are talking as a current old player that enjoy all part of the game.
We are talking about those who only play for the MSQ (which is a LOT), and the new player, for a game that is known for it's story before everything else (like it or not, just or unjust, it's the case).

Wherever you look at, social media, website, content creator, this is the worst reviewed expansion ever and mostly because of the MSQ which is divisive. It's okay to tell new player "don't worry after ARR it's okay" and "yeah so you have another ARR after but well let's hope what come next will be okay".
I'm sure Dawntrail will be disappointing on the long term for SE, and we are in a period in video game industry where it isn't good when you disappoint expectancy, and the Final Fantasy series, XVI or Rebirth both already disappointed SE.

All that is speculating obviously, and I hope I'm wrong, but the video game industry situation is depressing, so I'm pessimistic about a lot of things.

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I think people that only play the game for MSQ are really missing out. I also think people that skip all the cut scenes are missing out. For me it's a little weird that the community really hates when people are cut scene skippers but skipping out on the game's actual content is cool. The content is so much of the actual game. (and I'm not saying casual players have to go do Ultimate or Savage, there's other content for people of all skill levels)

I'm of the belief you shouldn't only judge an expansion based on its story, because the story is only a small part of what you'll be doing throughout an expansion's lifespan. If I spend 30 hours doing MSQ but 500+ hours raiding, doing the new Eureka/Bozja, leveling jobs, running dungeons, running the new deep dungeon, etc. which do you think is going to influence how I feel about the expansion more? My current 2 favorite expansions are Stormblood and Shadowbringers, and my feelings on their stories are actually a very small part of what made those two expansions great to me. Those two expansions were amazing because I thoroughly enjoyed my time actually playing them and doing their content. (I will not be ranking DT until I've experienced all its future content)

Also I have a lot of friends that play the game, both old and new players. Within my friend group most opinions on the MSQ ranged from "I loved it" to "it was alright". I actually don't personally know anyone that HATED it. Like, I didn't even know people hated it until I came to the official forums. I take what people say on the forums with a grain of salt because there's often really wild opinions on here and people will overblow how big a problem is. That and the internet has a major problem with people not being able to voice their opinions without a lot of hyperbole. Like, people can dislike things without it being the worst thing ever and a catastrophic hit to Square Enix and Yoshi P's reputation or whatever.

Why the whole "what type of players" is even matter here though?

Imagine you go a restaurant and order a full course meal with like 5 dishes on it, and they usually taste all fine. But one day, suddenly one of the dishes taste really bad ... you would complain ... right? Imagine in that situation someone else come over and say "suck it, the other 4 is still good so the meal is fine, just eat and stop complaining". What would you say to that person?

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Originally Posted by angienessyo

I think people that only play the game for MSQ are really missing out. I also think people that skip all the cut scenes are missing out. For me it's a little weird that the community really hates when people are cut scene skippers but skipping out on the game's actual content is cool. The content is so much of the actual game. (and I'm not saying casual players have to go do Ultimate or Savage, there's other content for people of all skill levels)

I'm of the belief you shouldn't only judge an expansion based on its story, because the story is only a small part of what you'll be doing throughout an expansion's lifespan. If I spend 30 hours doing MSQ but 500+ hours raiding, doing the new Eureka/Bozja, leveling jobs, running dungeons, running the new deep dungeon, etc. which do you think is going to influence how I feel about the expansion more? My current 2 favorite expansions are Stormblood and Shadowbringers, and my feelings on their stories are actually a very small part of what made those two expansions great to me. Those two expansions were amazing because I thoroughly enjoyed my time actually playing them and doing their content. (I will not be ranking DT until I've experienced all its future content)

Also I have a lot of friends that play the game, both old and new players. Within my friend group most opinions on the MSQ ranged from "I loved it" to "it was alright". I actually don't personally know anyone that HATED it. Like, I didn't even know people hated it until I came to the official forums. I take what people say on the forums with a grain of salt because there's often really wild opinions on here and people will overblow how big a problem is. That and the internet has a major problem with people not being able to voice their opinions without a lot of hyperbole. Like, people can dislike things without it being the worst thing ever and a catastrophic hit to Square Enix and Yoshi P's reputation or whatever.

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I can agree with most of that, even if I think that without the MSQ, as an MMORPG FFXIV would be far too bland to exist.

But like I said, liking it or not or finding it unjust doesn't change that FFXIV is the "JRPG with somme MMO elements in it" in the mind of most of peoples, even more for those who don't play it. A little like SWTOR was the "KOTOR with some MMO in it".
And a divisive view in what is considered the "must" of a game is a problem for attracting new players or retaining those who play only for it.

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Originally Posted by Brignadalee

Yeah, it was serviceable. Reviews can shove it because, let's be real, people are faster to review bomb than they will to say something positive. : /
Case and point, this entire Xpac's release thus far. Yes, the story was fine. I can understand why it was grating for some. But, this Xpac gave us a lot of QoL the game needed alongside a graphical/lighting facelift, job changes that join the QoL aspect for the better imo. I've been loving how clean some jobs feel now. I see a lot of those sour reviews only talking about the story and Wuk Lamat, and I think it's disingenuous to those that worked on many other aspects of this product.

As far as I'm concerned, the "brand" is just fine because it's being worked on by people that actually give a damn. Not their fault some people didn't take the hint when the team said multiple times this Xpac was going to be different, and even said it was okay not to like it. The team have been nothing but cool to us before and during this mess.

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Metacritic has been actively deleting the reviews that are review bombs. Again, the reviews are generally positive about the actual combat changes and encounters. The story however is so bad it brings them down, since the story is a huge a draw, often the focus. Yes, a part of a game can be so bad it overshadows all the good parts.

You can have different and have all that they stated without having what is really showing to be a crap story. We weren't the focus of Heavensward. We weren't the focus of Stormblood. Both built the setting and in general were lower stakes than ShB and EW while also focusing on other characters, Estenien, Ysayle, Lyse, Hien, yet did not sideline us to a mere cheerleader. Those were also more adventure like than DT having us just follow Wuk around like an obedient puppy. We were supposed to be on an adventure to find the City of gold, Wuk's story was just to get us there. We find it, and then drop it. Instead the villain gets to explore it first, off screen. Makes no sense that you'd just up and leave what you want to explore and learn about just as you find it. Hell from the looks of it, Estenien had the adventure and vacation we were told the WoL was going to have.

If I wanted a MMO where I'm a side character I'd play pretty much any other one out there.

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Originally Posted by angienessyo

snipped for text limit

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You are correct with people missing out on stuff if they focus only on a few things.
You are also correct that an expansion shouldn't be rated only on it's story. That's actually not what most here do.
People only give the story the most focus and a heavier weight in reviewing the expansion.

I also loved Eureka, Bozja, Ishgard restoration and other things.
The story for me is just the most improtant thing with all it's characters and lore. I always liked reading books and playing story heavy games and so I criticize it if it is not up to what I expect from the writers of ff14.
For me the story was a 2/10, absolutely devestating but the rest of the game is good so I give it a 6 to 6.5/10. Because that one thing has more weight for me and from all the discussions right now it seems there is quite a number of others who whould weight the reception mostly on the story side.
From what i have seen. Most here in those threads more or less also tend to that score +/-1

There is hyperbole in the criticism yes and insulting messages.
That thread title is pretty overblown but on the other side much of the pro arguments are also overblown or straight up insulting.

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Originally Posted by Brignadalee

Not their fault some people didn't take the hint when the team said multiple times this Xpac was going to be different, and even said it was okay not to like it.

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First, if they said it's ok to not like it, it also means that it's ok to criticize it.
Second, I'm personally inclined to think that they knew it was going to be a problem, that the MSQ would be divisive and Wuk Lamat would also be divisive. They did what I could call false advertising.
In the cinematic trailer, Wuk Lamat is barely present, she has as much time in it than any other Scion (which is a joke for some of them), and I'm sure they did that because they knew that doing a trailer truly representing the story, which would be mainly about Wuk Lamat, the preordering sales would have been worse.
And third, different doesn't excuse some lack of judgement or mistake they made for this MSQ.

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Originally Posted by Elaithe

This is such an absurd post it's hard to even like fully comprehend that a serious person is actually saying this stuff.

They put out 10 years of bangers, start a new story from scratch, and y'all can't even let them get past the opener before calling it a failure.

I think you all live in a little bubble where you actually believe everyone around you hated it or something. Grow up.

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Well mama, this is the product they released. So that's what's being critiqued. If you're eating something at a restaurant that tastes off, do you finish the meal and ask for seconds THEN tell your waiter that it tastes bad? Cause that's effectively what you're saying we should do.

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Originally Posted by Zackneifein

They did what I could call false advertising.

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Your back okay after stretching that hard?

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Originally Posted by TheRealQuah

People hated storm blood story but the content was and still Is the best the game ever had. Would much rather have a dud story and banger content, you only go through the story once.

There is a large vocal minority in this game of toxic casual players who want everything catered to them, you are seeing this on the forum now with the story complaints, content is too hard complaints, not liking the graphics update complaints.

I think when you step back you will find the majority of players who are here for the content are having a fantastic time, same as in stormblood.

Added on that this forum is a vocal minority, the majority of my friends enjoyed the story and the ones that didn't aren't complaining a load.

It's a matter of opinion, not everyone is going to like everything. I liked the low stakes fun plot line, after years of the world is ending.

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Plotwatchers and rpers. They dont care about the gameplay and never will, the game is their social media platform.
Just give them a "story mode" option that converts all duties into cutscenes since apparently they enjoy reading 60 hours of silent cutscenes on outdated animation rigs ,and let us have a fun game to play.

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Originally Posted by Brignadalee

Your back okay after stretching that hard?

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It's not false advertising but from a story perspective it comes quit close at some parts.
Wuk lamat being the main character was never a topic be in in fanfests or the trailers or interviews.
As was the WoL being so much in the background.

I don't know if that was an accident or they knew what they did but it kinda has that taste.

Given the japanese comments even they were surprised by her screentime and the WoL stuff so there probably also was no interview in japanese and no problem in translation.

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Originally Posted by Teraluna

Simple question, what actions will the team announce at the next live letter to try and repair the DT story writing?

Replacing one person as the msq writer isn't the complete answer by any means. The whole team must have reviewed, discussed and finally approved this msq over a lengthy period as a good enough product for the playerbase.

So, what next Yoshi P? Carry on as we are or announce revisions?

The next live letter will be very interesting.

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Here's an idea - get some decent translators. The current localizer team are a problem.

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Originally Posted by SteakDriven

Here's an idea - get some decent translators. The current localizer team are a problem.

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Explain how.

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Originally Posted by Wildheaven182

Plotwatchers and rpers. They dont care about the gameplay and never will, the game is their social media platform.
Just give them a "story mode" option that converts all duties into cutscenes since apparently they enjoy reading 60 hours of silent cutscenes on outdated animation rigs ,and let us have a fun game to play.

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That's the games core demo and selling point, the games combat is mid>low mid. The new graphics update is nice but also pretty mid visually.

That's not trying to doom the game, the point was the story was literally what made the game.

This game has since HW pretty much exclusively marketed around have good story telling, sadly this time they shit the bed. The people playing for the combat are the vast minority of the playerbase, mainly because as I pointed out before combat is pretty mid, most classes are now functionally clones of one another, they feel unimaginative and less enjoyable to play than in previous expacs, rotations are so braindead you could literally be half asleep and play any class, the tab targeting is trash and has always been trash, movement not being collision based and being plane based is clunky, eu tick rates are absolutely dogshit unless you're sitting in the server rooms. That's not saying that you can't enjoy it, but they would never keep this game alive based purely on it's current gameplay.

Personally I partially agree with you, I think they should focus on a smaller well rounded MSQ, with more focus on gameplay mechanics ie rebuild encounters and combat system from the ground up, sort movement out so it's collision based because ground plane movement was shit in 2005 and it's still shit now, shift more of the story into side quest and overworld development.

They need to get the Shadowbringers writing team back on the game story again

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Originally Posted by Garruss

They need to get the Shadowbringers writing team back on the game story again

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God, no, not yet. SHB is probably my overall favorite expansion story-wise, but that exact team comp is best saved for after the story has had time to ramp up. If the two DT halves were separate expansions, then I'd say bring them on for the second half, but they need to be built up to.

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Originally Posted by Zakuyia

Sorry for late reply. Meteon makes sense on our approach to her. We know her, we knew her story, we connected to meteon an not her sisters. Meteon could not be reasoned with. Meteons collective voice is true embodiment of pure unfiltered nillisism. Its why the endsinger had to die. Now im not saying endwalker is not without its fault...but the story was way more compelling than wtf ever DT was trying to sell.

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Again man, it's your opinion. I liked Sphene a lot, I liked Meteion, but back when EW was out idk if you'll recall how many people said they shoehorned her into the story, and I had to defend her the same way I have to defend Sphene. If you didn't like that's okay, it's okay not to like it, but it's a stretch to say it was universally disliked.

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Originally Posted by chizLemons

I recommend reading this thread. It very nicely explains a lot of the main objective issues with the character writing in Dawntrail.

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Damn that's a long post.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

Again man, it's your opinion. I liked Sphene a lot, I liked Meteion, but back when EW was out idk if you'll recall how many people said they shoehorned her into the story, and I had to defend her the same way I have to defend Sphene. If you didn't like that's okay, it's okay not to like it, but it's a stretch to say it was universally disliked.



Damn that's a long post.

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Yes it is long, but can you see the concept of an objective critique vs a subjective critique now?

It being poorly written doesn't mean you can't enjoy it personally. Soap opera's are generally incredibly poorly written but they are still watched by many people. The concept of this damaging the brand was about the fact that FF14's brand image is a well written story and whether you can stomach the story or not on a personal level no one can justifiably say that this was well written, which in turn damages the brand identity. Now when the post patches come out they might be able to salvage some of this and mitigate that damage. If they don't, it risks being a serious detriment to the health of the game.

total failure..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLylO7eDfMo

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Originally Posted by Malthir

Yes it is long, but can you see the concept of an objective critique vs a subjective critique now?

It being poorly written doesn't mean you can't enjoy it personally. Soap opera's are generally incredibly poorly written but they are still watched by many people. The concept of this damaging the brand was about the fact that FF14's brand image is a well written story and whether you can stomach the story or not on a personal level no one can justifiably say that this was well written, which in turn damages the brand identity. Now when the post patches come out they might be able to salvage some of this and mitigate that damage. If they don't, it risks being a serious detriment to the health of the game.

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Okay, this post is very long, and it's kind of obnoxious to bring and challenge points without sounding nitpicky. But there are things that are just very opinionated, he gives some claims like Alisae 100% trusting Sphene when she literally is the first one to say "Okay but we aren't really trusting her are we". This whole post reads as a rationalization of wanting the MSQ to be really, really bad, when it's really not better or worse than any early expansions.

I'm all for improving the MSQ, but to me this is all just fluff arguments over not liking a character.

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Originally Posted by Zakuyia

My man living that sheltered life. Honestly i want them to bring back plunge. The new anime dash for drk is so damn lame. The npc in the lvl 90 void dungeon still has plunge but im left with the weeb anime dash from a failed edge lord....drk was done dirty during DT fix that lol

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For GNB, Trajectory at least makes sense since the blade is rested on the shoulder. I actually like it better than the old gap closer. DRK though? Yeah, please give Plunge back.

https://media.tenor.com/8KfhA5HLS9gA...ng-someone.gif

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Originally Posted by Elaithe

This is such an absurd post it's hard to even like fully comprehend that a serious person is actually saying this stuff.

They put out 10 years of bangers, start a new story from scratch, and y'all can't even let them get past the opener before calling it a failure.

I think you all live in a little bubble where you actually believe everyone around you hated it or something. Grow up.

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Pretty much what I had on my mind/wanted to convey here.

Was the story perfect? No, not really, not all characters were done right either and some choices could've been waaaay better but calling it a full failure to the point of "brand" damage is completely insane and delusional?
Just say you didn't like it, give your opinion as to why, and let them cook it up and come up with something to try to fix/steer things in a better direction.

The vast majority of people don't know what a story actually is or how it functions... this is a new entry, they're testing things, it's a new writer as well, they'll need time to analyze what the players liked, didn't like and where to go from here.