FFXIV needs to stop accommodating Solo Players

Redundancy is a feature of casual content. Even if one person messes up the mechanics completely, the rest of the team will still find a way to the finish line. Nobody wants to sit around and watch you prog Sastasha as healer.

The core problem that healers face is that there is little scope for you to translate your skill as a player into a performance advantage for the team, like there is on other roles. Pass-fail healer checks in casual content is not how you do this. It may make people superficially 'value' healers, but not for their skill. We can talk about how to improve this, but that's a subject for another thread.

I don't know what trilogy-based design is. Trinity design in this game, on the other hand, is just here in name only. Everyone is DPS. I'm sure that if they could have switched format, they would have done so years ago.

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Zitat von Lyth

Redundancy is a feature of casual content. Even if one person messes up the mechanics completely, the rest of the team will still find a way to the finish line. Nobody wants to sit around and watch you prog Sastasha as healer.

The core problem that healers face is that there is little scope for you to translate your skill as a player into a performance advantage for the team, like there is on other roles. Pass-fail healer checks in casual content is not how you do this. It may make people superficially 'value' healers, but not for their skill. We can talk about how to improve this, but that's a subject for another thread.

I don't know what trilogy-based design is. Trinity design in this game, on the other hand, is just here in name only. Everyone is DPS. I'm sure that if they could have switched format, they would have done so years ago.

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There's an error in your reasoning - I would agree that a certain degree of redundancy should be considered in job and encounter design but that does not necessarily equate to the party will complete the content without one of the roles. This game is designed around healers, tanks, and DPS, it is disingenuous to state that "trinity design is here in name only" , I haven't played another MMO in recent memory where tanks didn't DPS , or healers didn't also DPS in group content in various degrees.

I don't want to be unfair, however I doubt we share the same view of a "performance benefit" and I would add that we likely don't even define healer "skill", and I would typically a discussion probably best left to the healer forums, where healer design issues have been under discussion for years - however it tends to be forgotten there..

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Zitat von Jessica_VS

For much of the MSQ, for example, the optimal (as in time/reward-efficient) way to play is to blast through it solo.

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Optimal is the enemy of fun.

So many complaints of dissatisfaction and boredom come from those who choose to blast through content the "optimal" way instead of in a way that would have been more fun, such as playing with others even though it would be at a slower pace. They try to convince themselves that being optimal is fun and yet in the end they are rarely satisfied.

Just something to consider.

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Zitat von Supersnow845

What is remotely “cooperative” about the daily roulettes

You can’t fail them if you tried, the tank doesn’t even need to care about the existence of the other players because they are functionally immortal, the raid bosses never have mechanics that require you to care about other players you all just collectively wail on the boss (myths is the worst for this)

If you swapped out 99% of players in this game with bots most people wouldn’t even notice

There is no cooperation in the daily roulettes, the only casual content that has any cooperation is field content and IR

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There is plenty of cooperation in the daily roulettes, even if there is no open acknowledgement of it.

Ever try doing a roulette where half the group has chosen not to cooperate and stands at the entrance instead of helping to kill mobs/bosses to progress through the instance?

Those who actively participate are choosing to cooperate. Those who stand around doing nothing aren't.

What most of the daily roulettes don't require is coordination, which would be a different topic.

^which as I’ve explained in the 7 points I’ve made since the single one you apparently read if half the party decides they would rather stand at the entrance and the content is still totally clearable (which it js) then you aren’t really cooperating with each other in a practical sense, you are wailing individually on the content with a vaguely aligned goal

Cooperation implies you are actually working with each other and work with each others strengths to achieve something, 14’s casual content is not that

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Zitat von Supersnow845

Cooperation implies you are actually working with each other and work with each others strengths to achieve something, 14’s casual content is not that

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Hello again, new day! I have a question I would like to ask you, Supersnow845. You're a healer, yes? Could you, as a scholar, queue up in party finder and take on the whole instance by yourself? No help from the tank, no help from the dps, but just you and you alone? And no, I am not talking about using trusts. I am talking about you queueing up with three other people, telling them to sit back and afk while you solo the entire instance by yourself? Are you capable of doing that?

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Zitat von Suniva

Hello again, new day! I have a question I would like to ask you, Supersnow845. You're a healer, yes? Could you, as a scholar, queue up in party finder and take on the whole instance by yourself? No help from the tank, no help from the dps, but just you and you alone? And no, I am not talking about using trusts. I am talking about you queueing up with three other people, telling them to sit back and afk while you solo the entire instance by yourself? Are you capable of doing that?

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Well its quite possible. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzsiQWjhRp8 Of course the sch was being very annoying but it can be done.

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Zitat von Suniva

Hello again, new day! I have a question I would like to ask you, Supersnow845. You're a healer, yes? Could you, as a scholar, queue up in party finder and take on the whole instance by yourself? No help from the tank, no help from the dps, but just you and you alone? And no, I am not talking about using trusts. I am talking about you queueing up with three other people, telling them to sit back and afk while you solo the entire instance by yourself? Are you capable of doing that?

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In a lot of the current dungeons the answer would be yes because of the pitiful damage the content puts out but that’s not really the point I’m making.

If I queue into the content and we all run forward from that moment till the moment the dungeon ends I as the SCH don’t have to care about anyone else, the tank doesn’t need me, the DPS don’t care if I’m a physick bot or doing twice their DPS, I don’t have to care that the DPS is trash, I don’t have to care to hat the tank is doing, if they can’t hold mobs they barely do any damage anyway and mobs no longer cancel casts if they hit me. The tank no longer has to meter CD’s because they have cost less CD’s on tiny CD’s so their other mitigations become fluff and the healers heals are just there, this also removes the DPS needing to be decent to not exhaust the healers/tanks

If I queue in and literally don’t have to care about anyone else in the instance for the duration of the instance because we don’t have to I don’t see that as cooperating with anyone

I thank you for the incredibly toxic sch video, but the video only shows the sch handling trash mobs, while being a class A ickwad. Doesn't show him/her doing the boss at all, so my question isn't exactly answered.

Well the thing is the mobs are more dangerous than the bosses for the most part in dungeon. Take the final boss of that dungeon from the video, doesn't do a single tank buster.

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Zitat von Supersnow845

If I queue in and literally don’t have to care about anyone else in the instance for the duration of the instance because we don’t have to I don’t see that as cooperating with anyone

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I still feel like you want to change the definition of what cooperation means, and like Jojoya said, you seem to be arguing about coordination more so than cooperation.

co·​or·​di·​na·​tion

"The process of organizing people or groups so that they work together properly and well.

There is cooperation, which again basically means working together toward a common goal, and then there is coordination, which means organizing people to work well together. I think what you are saying is that in roulettes, you don't have to be very coordinated, which I think we can all, mostly, agree that that is a fair statement compared to the other content available, but in roulettes, it is much easier, and faster, if you cooperate together to complete the task in front of you. Sorry if I am repeating myself or being pedantic. I just really feel like you are confusing the two definitions.

When I run a dungeon via Duty Finder, you can tell me all you want that I'm "cooperating" with three other people, and it might even fit the dictionary definition, but it still feels like solo content half the time because there's no real "coordination." As long as the tank follows the tank script, the healer follows the healer script, and the DPS push buttons, the job gets done. Everyone I partied up with is forgettable and (literally) replaceable.

I don't even need real people to get that imperfect, scuffed, "OMG what are these people doing" feel. I just did a Trust run where Alphinaud let Thancred die to Superbolide and then couldn't be bothered to raise him until we were all out of combat. :confused::confused::confused:

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Zitat von Suniva

Hello again, new day! I have a question I would like to ask you, Supersnow845. You're a healer, yes? Could you, as a scholar, queue up in party finder and take on the whole instance by yourself? No help from the tank, no help from the dps, but just you and you alone? And no, I am not talking about using trusts. I am talking about you queueing up with three other people, telling them to sit back and afk while you solo the entire instance by yourself? Are you capable of doing that?

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I couldn't do a level 90 dungeon because it doesn't let you que with an undersized party, and I didn't want to waste anyone's time or ask anyone to eat a penalty to appease my unnecessary challenge run, but I did just successfully solo a level 80 dungeon, synched, as Sage. Sage and Scholar are basically the same thing, so that counts in my book. I died once because I didn't barrier myself during a buffed tankbuster from the last boss, who gives himself damage buffs if I can't grab all the orbs in time, and still had about 10 minutes left before I'd run out of time. I didn't think to take pics until after the second boss, but here's some evidence:

https://i.imgur.com/Is02mul.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/1PYHBH1.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/XGonSPK.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/pc3xif9.jpeg

Level 90 dungeons are actually easier than level 80 ones (did you know the second boss has an untelegraphed, instant cast double tankbuster? I didn't). So I can't imagine it's any more challenging to do that at level 90 if the game allowed you to. And it wasn't until I was almost done that I also remembered, there's a guy making a series of videos on how far you can get soloing FF14. So yeah, there's plenty of evidence of much of the multiplayer elements being very much soloable. Just to note, his interpretation of "solo" means you also cant obtain items that came from another player. You can't use the market board, for example. He's doing everything by himself, from gathering gear to crafting... everything.

I've missed the forums. It's always entertaining to see that anyone who says "um akchually the game is fine as is and you need to go back to wow" is just straight up wrong and literally all evidence shows that. Endwalker has not FELT massively multiplayer. It's felt like a solo game where you occasionally work with other players for the sake of saving time on easy, mundane activities.

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Zitat von SargeTheSeagull

I've missed the forums. It's always entertaining to see that anyone who says "um akchually the game is fine as is and you need to go back to wow" is just straight up wrong and literally all evidence shows that. Endwalker has not FELT massively multiplayer. It's felt like a solo game where you occasionally work with other players for the sake of saving time on easy, mundane activities.

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Big ole facts

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Zitat von SargeTheSeagull

I've missed the forums. It's always entertaining to see that anyone who says "um akchually the game is fine as is and you need to go back to wow" is just straight up wrong and literally all evidence shows that. Endwalker has not FELT massively multiplayer. It's felt like a solo game where you occasionally work with other players for the sake of saving time on easy, mundane activities.

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Given that SE will continue to accommodate solo players, is there a path forward that generates the kind of content you would like to see?

Gotta love how when people have nothing of value to add to the conversation, they just turn to semantics as a thinly veiled attempt to shut off or deflect points.

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Zitat von AnotherPerson

Do you count cheering someone on from the sidelines as they watch you solo the boss as cooperation? Honestly curious. I've been in parties where the healer died early, and the two dps immediately died from failing the mechanic in quick succession from full hp. They all raised outside the dungeon and they told me to keep going because WAR is broken instead of just wiping directly and resetting... It took me well over 10 minutes alone on taking the boss down.

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I hate this behavior. So much for wanting a 'cooperation/coordination'---yeah no, it's not. That's dumping their workload to my hands after deliberately participating in a duty as the role of their own choice. I've had that happened several times as a tank in dungeon. All 4 incl DRK. They are fun first few times if you're trying to see how far you can get on your own. They are not fun when it's slowly being normalized.

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Zitat von Mawlzy

Given that SE will continue to accommodate solo players, is there a path forward that generates the kind of content you would like to see?

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For bread-and-butter Duty Finder-able content, I would aim to make it feel like you're playing with other players without necessarily requiring any more communication than running in a direction and jumping up and down.

One way we get there is with a return of mechanics where somebody needs to act, but it doesn't matter exactly who. For example, picking up fire sand and hitting the detonator in Copperbell Mines. Or swatting away the bombs in A5N. Moments where I wonder how the party will self-organize.

Another way we get there is with a return to mechanics where you notice the effects of another player's choice. Where is someone going to drop that AoE, or take that flare? Where is that other alliance going to aim the death laser? Moments where someone else's choice might make my life… interesting.

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Zitat von Mawlzy

Given that SE will continue to accommodate solo players, is there a path forward that generates the kind of content you would like to see?

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First of all nuke tank self-sustain defensive capabilities into the ground, a lone tank should not be able to last very long without a healer. This alone makes peoples eyes glaze over the second they load into a 90 dungeons they know its time to watch a movie on their 2nd monitor because the tank can solo the dungeon (while he also watches a movie). Absolutely tragic 90 roulette content is far easier than most 50(hard) dungeons.

Then they could learn from crit dungeons, instead of boring fodder trash enemies we could have more specialized trash packs with mini mechanics the entire group needs to follow.

I know most of the reworked dungeons were turned into TRASH to accommodate for Duty Support but there is one exception I think was very well reworked, the last boss in Aetherochemical Research Facility felt pretty good, it required actual healing, it required light levels of teamwork and it even had a light enrage. SO they do have the capability to make dungeon bosses fun and enable duty support at the same time.

I get the feeling that what some people want is a design that necessitates certain jobs working together to clear content, which is all fine and good until content becomes outdated and new players cannot clear because no one is running those things anymore. Even with the duty finder queueing for something that is old and not in one of the more commonly run roulettes can mean a queue of an hour or so. Adding to that the restriction of jobs having to play in sync with each other to even be functional in said content means that if the queue fills and the older players participating don't remember how to coordinate this dungeon or don't want to bother with it then they will just leave and the new player is left to try and queue again. This will probably also lean even heavier into a META where if you are not one of the META jobs this patch cycle you might as well not even bother playing, your job will be rejected from even normal dungeon queues because you do not have the most favorable interactions with other jobs that make the content an easy fast run.

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Zitat von SieyaM

I get the feeling that what some people want is a design that necessitates certain jobs working together to clear content, which is all fine and good until content becomes outdated and new players cannot clear because no one is running those things anymore. Even with the duty finder queueing for something that is old and not in one of the more commonly run roulettes can mean a queue of an hour or so. Adding to that the restriction of jobs having to play in sync with each other to even be functional in said content means that if the queue fills and the older players participating don't remember how to coordinate this dungeon or don't want to bother with it then they will just leave and the new player is left to try and queue again. This will probably also lean even heavier into a META where if you are not one of the META jobs this patch cycle you might as well not even bother playing, your job will be rejected from even normal dungeon queues because you do not have the most favorable interactions with other jobs that make the content an easy fast run.

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I haven't seen anyone asking for specific jobs working together, rather it's for the existing roles to work together. That wouldn't lead to an increased demand for a meta nor a job restriction.
if on the other hand that lead to it being considerably more difficult to queue and complete dungeons as- let's say- 3 DPS and a tank, and not the more traditional 2 DPS 1 tank and 1 heal- and dungeons were more engaging as a result- I would consider that an improvement, since "easy fast run" can get quite boring.

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Zitat von SieyaM

I get the feeling that what some people want is a design that necessitates certain jobs working together to clear content, which is all fine and good until content becomes outdated and new players cannot clear because no one is running those things anymore. Even with the duty finder queueing for something that is old and not in one of the more commonly run roulettes can mean a queue of an hour or so. Adding to that the restriction of jobs having to play in sync with each other to even be functional in said content means that if the queue fills and the older players participating don't remember how to coordinate this dungeon or don't want to bother with it then they will just leave and the new player is left to try and queue again. This will probably also lean even heavier into a META where if you are not one of the META jobs this patch cycle you might as well not even bother playing, your job will be rejected from even normal dungeon queues because you do not have the most favorable interactions with other jobs that make the content an easy fast run.

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I never understand where this fear comes from. "Content becomes outdated and new players cannot clear because no one is running those things anymore." The only example of that we see is DR and Rival Wings. Everything else has either roulettes to supply that content with players reclearing for other rewards, or a dedicated community that continues to run that content regularly. Like, Eureka and Bozja are not dead. They're not as active as they were at launch day, but you can log in at pretty much any time of the day and find people there. DR's flaw is being a very specific piece of content with little to gain from running and no way of accessing it through any kind of roulette. And even that's not fully dead because there are absolutely communities that continue to run it that a new player can access.

As for meta jobs... That whole "if you're not one of the meta jobs this patch, you might as well not even bother playing..." Have you ever actually raided in FFXIV? Because you could not be more off-base with how the meta has existed throughout this games lifespan. Look at Stormblood where you had things like piercing damage comps. This meta was pretty much just for world first races and speed clear teams. No PF worth its salt restricted any job from joining, and the maybe 4 of them that did because they read on some BS gaming article that DRG + BRD was "Mandatory" and proceeded to treat that as gospel were seen as jokes and not worth joining anyway.

These fears are baseless, especially to the extent that people are asking.

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Zitat von AmiableApkallu

When I run a dungeon via Duty Finder, you can tell me all you want that I'm "cooperating" with three other people, and it might even fit the dictionary definition, but it still feels like solo content half the time because there's no real "coordination." As long as the tank follows the tank script, the healer follows the healer script, and the DPS push buttons, the job gets done. Everyone I partied up with is forgettable and (literally) replaceable.

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Thank you. This statement makes sense and I can see why many are feeling that particular way, I appreciate you clarifying. But as for the second part of your statement, I'd argue that because the roles are so defined, as has been the case for decades now when it comes to an MMO that follows the trinity of tank, dps, healer, that the coordination is still inherently there, but people understand what their roles are so well nowadays that we take it for granted. Hence why people are left feeling the way they do. I think this is a problem for all older MMO's truth be told. The community gets so used to the status quo that they clamour for something new to spice things up. The game already has savage and ultimate content for those that want more of a challenge, and we all agree that roulettes are easy to accomplish, mainly because it is a daily activity for gathering your tomes for the week.

So, what ideas might you have to add to the game to make things not feel as they do? More challenging 4 man content? Also, what's to stop players from coming full circle even if this more "challenging" content is added? After years of the same thing, won't players be left feeling as they are now?

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Zitat von Suniva

Thank you. This statement makes sense and I can see why many are feeling that particular way, I appreciate you clarifying. But as for the second part of your statement, I'd argue that because the roles are so defined, as has been the case for decades now when it comes to an MMO that follows the trinity of tank, dps, healer, that the coordination is still inherently there, but people understand what their roles are so well nowadays that we take it for granted. Hence why people are left feeling the way they do. I think this is a problem for all older MMO's truth be told. The community gets so used to the status quo that they clamour for something new to spice things up. The game already has savage and ultimate content for those that want more of a challenge, and we all agree that roulettes are easy to accomplish, mainly because it is a daily activity for gathering your tomes for the week.

So, what ideas might you have to add to the game to make things not feel as they do? More challenging 4 man content? Also, what's to stop players from coming full circle even if this more "challenging" content is added? After years of the same thing, won't players be left feeling as they are now?

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What about simply making harder mechanics with less punishing consequences? I don't just mean non lethal damage, but what if some mechanics don't deal damage if you fail them, but inflict status effects instead--things that aren't a death sentence but impede your damage. Damage which I might add also doesn't matter outside of Extreme and beyond anyway. Like maybe you suffer paralysis, toad, or maybe you make it more interactive, like being trapped in a cage that you have to break out of before you can rejoin the fight.

Ahh ty_taurus, thanks for soloing an 80 instance to prove it can be done. I have no idea why anyone would play the game like that other than for a challenge since it is not the optimal way to play. As I said in another post of mine, regardless if it can be done solo, there is no denying that cooperating with the 3 others in your party leads to you completing the dungeon faster, which the ultimate goal is completion of the dungeon for tomes. But like AmiableApkallu stated, it doesn't matter what the definition of the words are when people are left feeling the way that they do.

As for your idea, let's say it gets implemented. After years of doing content with those mechanics, what's to stop the community from coming right back around and starting this whole process again? It is a never ending cycle of trying to implement different things to keep the audience engaged, which is why we see fights using mechanics we are all familiar with, but in different sequences. Sure, more can be done, and sometimes something new gets added, but after a while even that something new will become stale and people will go right back to saying that the game needs something new. Hopefully with Dawntrail and with what Yoshi P stated, there may be some changes that get implemented that make the game feel less like what it does now, but we have to wait and see if those changes do in fact come, and how long the community will be satiated before we are right back here again.

Right now we have what we have in game and even the OP of this thread seems to have given up on it since it has sort of been derailed (Kind of OP's fault since they were so incredibly vague despite others attempting to get them to be more specific) into "Stop Accomdating solo players" to people expressing their "feelings" on why they feels like the game is soloable and wanting more, let's say, dynamic content. I do see this as an unending issue that can never be fully rectified however.

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Zitat von Suniva

I think this is a problem for all older MMO's truth be told. The community gets so used to the status quo that they clamour for something new to spice things up. The game already has savage and ultimate content for those that want more of a challenge, and we all agree that roulettes are easy to accomplish, mainly because it is a daily activity for gathering your tomes for the week.

So, what ideas might you have to add to the game to make things not feel as they do? More challenging 4 man content? Also, what's to stop players from coming full circle even if this more "challenging" content is added? After years of the same thing, won't players be left feeling as they are now?

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I'm not talking about whether content feels challenging, or whether it feels fresh when I run it for the 247th time.

I'm talking about whether it feels like I'm running it with other people. Modern dungeons and fights have lost all those little moments where I'm reminded that people are variable and make choices -- moments that existed independent of tanks knowing how to old aggro, healers knowing how to push a heal button, and DPS knowing how to push a damage button.

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Zitat von AmiableApkallu

I'm talking about whether it feels like I'm running it with other people. Modern dungeons and fights have lost all those little moments where I'm reminded that people are variable and make choices -- moments that existed independent of tanks knowing how to old aggro, healers knowing how to push a heal button, and DPS knowing how to push a damage button.

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Zitat von AmiableApkallu

For bread-and-butter Duty Finder-able content, I would aim to make it feel like you're playing with other players without necessarily requiring any more communication than running in a direction and jumping up and down.

One way we get there is with a return of mechanics where somebody needs to act, but it doesn't matter exactly who. For example, picking up fire sand and hitting the detonator in Copperbell Mines. Or swatting away the bombs in A5N. Moments where I wonder how the party will self-organize.

Another way we get there is with a return to mechanics where you notice the effects of another player's choice. Where is someone going to drop that AoE, or take that flare? Where is that other alliance going to aim the death laser? Moments where someone else's choice might make my life… interesting.

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Sounds like you want fights to be more dynamic. What instance did I run the other day, I believe it was vanaspati. At the end where you have the disruption move that blows up the platform and you have to dodge the opposite shape that appears on your screen and the circle attack. I was healing and we had a sprout that refused to spread out and their lack of awareness ended up causing me to die. So, is that what you're talking about, more fights like that where player agency actually matters? (Unless you have a warrior tank since they are incredibly broken right now).

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Zitat von Suniva

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The point isn't that people can just spend 80 minutes soloing a dungeon. It's that the mechanics are so relaxed that someone can solo the dungeon, even if it takes significantly longer to do so. Obviously any content that doesn't scale to the number of players will inherently go quicker with more people regardless of whether or not more people are required. I did that test in a response to what you had asked, if it was possible to effectively solo casual content like a dungeon as just a healer. Based on what you were responding to, the implication of your statement was that regardless of how easy the content is, you still depend on other players to clear it. But my challenge run as well as that video series I shared prove the opposite. And the thing is, I ran that dungeon synched. You can still clear content unsynched for quest progression, so you can absolutely just over level and solo dungeons in a far more reasonable amount of time anyway.

But Apkallu's point is where I think the most substantial point stands. The standard experience feels like you're going through the same hallway simulator adjacent to 3 other people, not necessarily that you're working with them to reach the end. And niether the mechanics nor the content's lack of need for the role system are have helped that in recent years.

I'm not sure if I understand what you're saying in your second paragraph, but it sounds like you're proposing nihilistic defeatism. "Even if the next expansion changes, the expansion after could just go back to this" So I guess we should just never do anything about the game ever, because even if changes are positive, those positive changes won't matter because they'll inevitably be subverted by worse changes later. Wasn't that literally what the Endwalker Story stood in opposition to?

As far as the topic is concerned, I want to stress that for the most part, there has not been agitation in the face of solo player content prior to Endwalker. Why? It goes back to a post I made a few pages earlier. There's nothing wrong with supporting solo play and fostering an environment that allows solo play to be an option. I would argue that it's a great thing, but it should not come at the cost of the multiplayer aspects of the game, because this is a "massively multiplayer" online RPG. The multiplayer is a part of the point. And Endwalker has felt like an expansion where mutliplayer elements were sacrificed for solo play.

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Zitat von Suniva

Sounds like you want fights to be more dynamic. What instance did I run the other day, I believe it was vanaspati. At the end where you have the disruption move that blows up the platform and you have to dodge the opposite shape that appears on your screen and the circle attack. I was healing and we had a sprout that refused to spread out and their lack of awareness ended up causing me to die. So, is that what you're talking about, more fights like that where player agency actually matters? (Unless you have a warrior tank since they are incredibly broken right now).

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Here are some examples of mechanics that he's talking about in regards to wanting to feel like you are working with other people:

- Two role orbs spawn and hunt down either the DPS or the supports (tank and healer). If they reach that player, they explode, deal a decent chunk of damage to the whole party, and paralyze the entire party which can be Esuna'd. If a player of the opposite role (DPS or Support) pops the orb before it reaches the target, only they take the damage and there is no paralysis.

- Two adds spawn on each side of the arena. Both cannot be damaged and will stick around for 30 seconds before going away. Each will cast Disease 4 times, cycling through each member of the party, hitting them twice. Disease will make the other mechanic much harder do to the reduction in movement speed and healing. Both these adds can be put to Sleep by Repose or Sleep, which will last long enough to prevent them from debuffing the party during that mechanic. You need a healer or caster DPS to sleep them, or you'll take a lot of extra damage during the rest of the mechanic.

- A boss fills the room with toxic gas and there's a force field generator that creates a small safe zone from the heavy DOT around the arena. Adds will spawn to try and destroy it, but one party member can pick it up and keep it away from the adds, but this also causes the safe zone to move with them. (Hi there, Crystal Chronicles)

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Zitat von ty_taurus

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I believe you misunderstood my second paragraph. I was not saying, "Even if the next expansion changes, the expansion after could just go back to this". I was saying that even if your changes get implemented, what is to stop the community from coming back around again and complaining about the content being as it is now and by now? I mean them complaining that they feel like the content is, as you said, relaxed. I never imagined anyone would go out and do it just to prove a point, as you did, simply because in my frame of thinking, and I'm sorry if this wasn't clarified initially, but even IF you can solo it, it is more ideal to do it as a group because you complete the objective faster. Again, in your more recent post, you have clarified that that wasn't the point to begin with and I will admit that is what I was stuck on, so I thank you for your clarification.

As for for the changes AmiableApkallu has recently shared, and you (I had didn't see your post until I posted my own) I agree with his and yours perspective. More dynamic fights would make it feel more engaging and hopefully less relaxed, as you have put it. I do apologize if it has taken me a while to understand your perspectives, but I believe I can clearly see where you guys are coming from. If this is what the OP was initially trying to convey, then I do hope that the FF team, if they are even monitoring this thread, do take your ideas to heart.

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Zitat von Suniva

I believe you misunderstood my second paragraph. I was not saying, "Even if the next expansion changes, the expansion after could just go back to this". I was saying that even if your changes get implemented, what is to stop the community from coming back around again and complaining about the content being as it is now and by now? I mean them complaining that they feel like the content is, as you said, relaxed. I never imagined anyone would go out and do it just to prove a point, as you did, simply because in my frame of thinking, and I'm sorry if this wasn't clarified initially, but even IF you can solo it, it is more ideal to do it as a group because you complete the objective faster. Again, in your more recent post, you have clarified that that wasn't the point to begin with and I will admit that is what I was stuck on, so I thank you for your clarification.

As for for the changes AmiableApkallu has recently shared, and you (I had didn't see your post until I posted my own) I agree with his and yours perspective. More dynamic fights would make it feel more engaging and hopefully less relaxed, as you have put it. I do apologize if it has taken me a while to understand your perspectives, but I believe I can clearly see where you guys are coming from and do hope that the FF team, if they are even monitoring this thread, do take your ideas to heart.

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Well, we have seen how over the years, this tension around the overall simplicity of the game has grown as the game became more simple. Naturally, one would expect that if the future of FFXIV undid some of that simplicity, criticism of said simplicity would also lessen over time. Let's say DT makes adjustments based on a lot of the repeated feedback we see here. How the community responses will of course depend on how that feedback is addressed and to what extent. There may be overall praise, or you might have a more bittersweet reception where the change is appreciated but isn't enough to address the issues being brought up.

What we can say is that regularly, there is a point in time of FFXIV's history where the balance between simplicity and complexity is concidered to be the best of both worlds, and that point is Stormblood. Time and time again do people reference Stormblood as a happy medium between not too tough and not too easy. There's enough depth to sink your teeth into if you're experienced, but not so much that it felt overwhelming if you're a newcomer or novice. That does not mean just redo Stormblood and stay there, but if the dev team saw that feedback and sought to make DT have that level of balance, you'd probably get the healthiest response from the largest amount of people. Of course, how exactly we reach that balance matters as well, as I'm sure there are ways we could go about it that wouldn't be well received.

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Zitat von ty_taurus

What we can say is that regularly, there is a point in time of FFXIV's history where the balance between simplicity and complexity is concidered to be the best of both worlds, and that point is Stormblood. .

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No argument from me there. I've been a Bard since ARR and Bard felt so, so good during StB. But if I am to be frank, Bard was going to feel substantially better after the travesty that was bow mage during Heavensward. *shivers*

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Zitat von ty_taurus

Here are some examples of mechanics that he's talking about in regards to wanting to feel like you are working with other people:

- Two role orbs spawn and hunt down either the DPS or the supports (tank and healer). If they reach that player, they explode, deal a decent chunk of damage to the whole party, and paralyze the entire party which can be Esuna'd. If a player of the opposite role (DPS or Support) pops the orb before it reaches the target, only they take the damage and there is no paralysis.

- Two adds spawn on each side of the arena. Both cannot be damaged and will stick around for 30 seconds before going away. Each will cast Disease 4 times, cycling through each member of the party, hitting them twice. Disease will make the other mechanic much harder do to the reduction in movement speed and healing. Both these adds can be put to Sleep by Repose or Sleep, which will last long enough to prevent them from debuffing the party during that mechanic. You need a healer or caster DPS to sleep them, or you'll take a lot of extra damage during the rest of the mechanic.

- A boss fills the room with toxic gas and there's a force field generator that creates a small safe zone from the heavy DOT around the arena. Adds will spawn to try and destroy it, but one party member can pick it up and keep it away from the adds, but this also causes the safe zone to move with them. (Hi there, Crystal Chronicles)

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But imagine, this would bring so much stress and friction onto players when their team mate fails to prevent them the debuff by failing the mechanic or not doing it. *gasp*

Maybe that's why we should also remove the stress of running the risk of not being healed by the healer so that we cannot feel frustrated at the performance of someone else...- owait, they already made healers irrelevant in dungeons.

I'm surprised that this thread isn't dead yet.

I would love to say that this thread is not needed. However, MSQ that is mainly done solo is heavily tied to dungeons and trials. So that alone should tell you the message. Yet, Pandora's box was opened once the trust system was introduced. There's no closing the box back up.

What to do for Dawntrail? I don't know. However, I would take that old advice and be careful of what you ask for. Sure, we can make EVERY single thing accessible for any solo player to do. I would personally love that. However, if you have a large enough of a solo player base that can't get through certain parts of the content with their favorite class then expect for more simplicity to come, expect for more dungeon nerfs, and expect for certain parts of the group to defend that system in the name of accessibility.

Just putting that out there.

I would love to know how you can physically make dungeons any easier than they are now without just zoning in and it going “duty complete” and patting you on the back

Why bother in the "MMO" aspect when the whole community play FFXIV like they pick up Fallout 4/ Skyrim install 200 mods that can be synchronized with others and poof, you're playing FFXIV (+5) and don't even bother what devs do lol,

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Zitat von fantasiaaddict

title
FFXIV needs to stop accommodating Solo Players

/10chars

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No. As someone who started in 2024(im in current content now) there is so much past content i want to do, but CAN'T because it's dead to the community. Mount farming in older content is one. Ones I can't solo unsync are impossible to get because I can not get ppl to help. Like S0S, i've been trying to do a run for the dragon for the last 2 months and NO ONE wants to help.

No. 10char

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Zitat von Shonicss4

No. As someone who started in 2024(im in current content now) there is so much past content i want to do, but CAN'T because it's dead to the community. Mount farming in older content is one. Ones I can't solo unsync are impossible to get because I can not get ppl to help. Like S0S, i've been trying to do a run for the dragon for the last 2 months and NO ONE wants to help.

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I found a group that actually wanted to do the StB Extremes unsync'd and I hopped on that so fast. We got one mount.

Actually, I think this is why the Moogle Treasure Troves rotate old EX mounts. I would not have the Susano mount if not for that since it's *actually* impossible to solo now. There was a very, VERY brief window Pictomancer could burst Susano down fast enough that the sword phase never happened. I don't think it's possible anymore since the PCT changes that put more of it's damage on the color spells. RathGames has a whole video about it during his Solo Only challenge.

I just really want the Gwibers, but same problem.

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Zitat von RedLolly

I found a group that actually wanted to do the StB Extremes unsync'd and I hopped on that so fast. We got one mount.

Actually, I think this is why the Moogle Treasure Troves rotate old EX mounts. I would not have the Susano mount if not for that since it's *actually* impossible to solo now. There was a very, VERY brief window Pictomancer could burst Susano down fast enough that the sword phase never happened. I don't think it's possible anymore since the PCT changes that put more of it's damage on the color spells. RathGames has a whole video about it during his Solo Only challenge.

I just really want the Gwibers, but same problem.

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It was never possible. He goes into sword phase immediately upon his HP reaching 70% or lower.

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Zitat von BlisteringFrost

It was never possible. He goes into sword phase immediately upon his HP reaching 70% or lower.

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Nah, mad lad actually did it:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=MxgI8z3o...1DrdGvFiYtr4YK
(Actual going for the kill Starts around 1:02:00 ish)