Yoshida-san: Please Give Us a BETTER System for Relics and Future 2.0 Challenges!

This is some good shit, I welcome it!
Not gonna get it myself in the near future though. But still very good! Good work team!

Edit: also

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instanc...0/20586269.jpg

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Originally Posted by Tibian

This is disgusting. I want to quit the game right now and never return.

How can SE expect to revive the game if stupid systems like this exist?

This is HUGELY de-motivational if true. If 2.0 has future systems akin to this, it will fail.

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Completely agree. I refuse to even attempt relic weapon. Insulting.

I agree with this thread, everyone should have relic weapons.

They should even begin a promotional campain with Kellogg's to have relic weapons in cereal boxes.

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Originally Posted by ChronicalSin

This is some good shit, I welcome it!
Not gonna get it myself in the near future though. But still very good! Good work team!

Edit: also

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instanc...0/20586269.jpg

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Spent a lot of time on this game and got level 50 in every battle class and some dol/doh. completed almost every important content of this game, every dungeon, every primal fight hundreds of times. Think some minutes before saying "casuals" to a random bunch of people, including me. You'0re just acting like a fanboy, you know?

Seriously, you don't know what you're talking about.

And this also proves you only played ff11 and 14 on top level, because I have never seen something like that in other mmos, when you get good gear because of your score and efforts, not (only) luck.

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Originally Posted by Tano

Spent a lot of time on this game and got level 50 in every battle class and some dol/doh. completed almost every important content of this game, every dungeon, every primal fight hundreds of times.

Seriously, you don't know what you're talking about.

And this also proves you only played ff11 and 14 on top level, because I have never seen something like that in other mmos, when you get good gear because of your score and efforts, not (only) luck.

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Nah. I like it =)
It's guuuuuuuud~

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instanc...x/17370552.jpg

What happened to the times when many many people had to work together to achieve ONE relic weapon?
I don't see anyone working together there - of course, you need a proper group for Hamlet/AV/CC, but you could achieve that with a non-static group.

This isn't a single player game, yet the relics can be obtained by having a minimal amount of interaction with other people. In the end, someone gets his relic, but hes the only one being happy about it. If a linkshell worked together to get one relic, everyone would have a piece of the pride-cake.

FFXIV 1.0 - a Minimal Multiplayer Online RPG - let's hope they don't carry this over in 2.0

I like to think the relic weapons are more geared toward LS progression, if you take a good group of 8ppl and you can get consistent 60k+ hamlet runs you can make constant progress for the group every night. Do 9 60k+ hamlets and odds are strongly in your favor of getting at least 1 seal per night and over the avg your going to get more then 1, probably closer to 3/night. So even if you do runs 3 times a week for 4hours a session then you are looking at about 1 seal per week per person. I think a 2 month commitment is not that much to ask for. In that time period you could probably SB the gear needed to have at least 20 IV's of the materia you need. Then another LS oriented goal with AV/CC and the same can be said for the weapon synths/melds. Its not that expensive overall just a time commitment. For the avg joe its probably a pipe dream without any connections. With a good LS its not that bad just a long time commitment where if you are able to impove your odds greatly by doing it with a skilled coordinated group.

"making us SPAM / Throw Ourselves at a certain task over and over and hoping for a Blind Luck Dice Roll"

This is what made me loose interest in the game.

LOL everyone asked for long term content but wasn't really specific about what you wanted. Yoshi offers something up and everyone pitches a bitch. If I am not mistaken, half the posts about the stats for relic weapons were people saying "meh, you can make better weapons with materia" So now we are bitching about how we obtain weapons no one really wants? Amazing.

Don't get me wrong, I am in agreement about the drop rates for the primal stuff, but Yoshi himself has even said all that will change in 2.0. But many of us have been playing since release and those that haven't at least prob know a few that have. Which means we either are someone or know someone that has multiple crafting jobs at 50 and have millions of gil, which to me anyway, solves the only real trouble with this system, the crafting part. Spilt milk to me but to each his own i guess. Even the drop rates for end game stuff in xi was based on some sort of luck system. This doesnt really seem much different.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz2jb...eature=g-all-f

x.x

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Originally Posted by Tibian

This is disgusting. I want to quit the game right now and never return.

How can SE expect to revive the game if stupid systems like this exist?

This is HUGELY de-motivational if true. If 2.0 has future systems akin to this, it will fail.

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That's just like... your opinion, man. What is it with the NA players wanting INSTANT GRATIFICATION at all times for everything? I can see getting a system to make random drops more obtainable, such as the totem system, which could do with some more consistency. But complaining that it will take you a long time? that is like me complaining that it took three years to get my Duelist's Chapeau -1. It was a random drop, and a damn rare random drop at that. Right now, these are the penultimate weapons, an achievement that is akin to relic weapons from ffxi. it WILL take a LOT of time and effort, and guess what, after that time,it will feel like an achievement. Though you may just sit and whine that someone somewhere got it all on their first drop.
if you want to quit the game over this, go right ahead, im going to go dump another $70 in crysta into my account as an advance to the dev fund.

Although it is frustrating, and often maddening, if you are here to play the game for at least another 7 years, rather than go play the newest and prettiest MMO that comes out every 6-12 months, you will eventually get it and more.

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Originally Posted by Gentaro

What happened to the times when many many people had to work together to achieve ONE relic weapon?
I don't see anyone working together there - of course, you need a proper group for Hamlet/AV/CC, but you could achieve that with a non-static group.

This isn't a single player game, yet the relics can be obtained by having a minimal amount of interaction with other people. In the end, someone gets his relic, but hes the only one being happy about it. If a linkshell worked together to get one relic, everyone would have a piece of the pride-cake.

FFXIV 1.0 - a Minimal Multiplayer Online RPG - let's hope they don't carry this over in 2.0

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I suppose it comes down to what type of LS you have, which for the record, determines a lot in most MMo's. My ls looked at these and immediatly began forming a plan to get everyone theres. So I guess its just a matter of perspective.

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Originally Posted by Huginn

That's just like... your opinion, man. What is it with the NA players wanting INSTANT GRATIFICATION at all times for everything? I can see getting a system to make random drops more obtainable, such as the totem system, which could do with some more consistency. But complaining that it will take you a long time? that is like me complaining that it took three years to get my Duelist's Chapeau -1. It was a random drop, and a damn rare random drop at that. Right now, these are the penultimate weapons, an achievement that is akin to relic weapons from ffxi. it WILL take a LOT of time and effort, and guess what, after that time,it will feel like an achievement. Though you may just sit and whine that someone somewhere got it all on their first drop.
if you want to quit the game over this, go right ahead, im going to go dump another $70 in crysta into my account as an advance to the dev fund.

Although it is frustrating, and often maddening, if you are here to play the game for at least another 7 years, rather than go play the newest and prettiest MMO that comes out every 6-12 months, you will eventually get it and more.

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http://www.altepeter.com/stuff/imgs/applause.gif

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Originally Posted by Tano

Spent a lot of time on this game and got level 50 in every battle class and some dol/doh. completed almost every important content of this game, every dungeon, every primal fight hundreds of times. Think some minutes before saying "casuals" to a random bunch of people, including me. You'0re just acting like a fanboy, you know?

Seriously, you don't know what you're talking about.

And this also proves you only played ff11 and 14 on top level, because I have never seen something like that in other mmos, when you get good gear because of your score and efforts, not (only) luck.

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While not white knighting, I just wanted to point out that 90% of this relic system IS based on effort. The only part that requires any luck is the double meld. And that can be walked around simply by buying one. You dont think people are gonna start double melding stuff to sell for this? Really?

I said this in another thread, but I think it would of been more appropriate in this one.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

I do agree with this. The process pretty much revolves around everything people hate in this game and want to be changed. Content based off the RNG system, which several threads here have fought against. Spamming content over and over again. This time it is costing money to do so. I don't mind having to spend a large chunk of gil to meet my goal, but if I spend a large amount of gil, I better get what I payed for. I don't want to spend tons of gil on something that may break.

In FFXI, you were guaranteed currency per Dynamis run, and was able to work towards something. Dynamis may have cost 1 million gil per run, but you did get your currency and was able to make progress.

I don't understand the 1.xx Dev teams idea of hard work. They keep telling me this game is a theme park, but it is actually a casino. This game as a whole does not reward the skilled player, it does not reward the dedicated player, it only rewards the lucky player. Some people in MMO's like to play and get highest gear to show they are the best. Anyone here barely feels that way in this game. I don't look at someone in full Darklight and say "Wow, he must be real skilled to get that whole set in that given time.". I think to myself "This person got a full set when I have been doing dungeons every night and only have hands to show for it.".

I am sorry, it just isn't right. Almost to the point of being immoral. For relics, I want to work towards something, I want to know each day I put towards it counts for something. I do not want to pull a lever on a slot machine and hope for the best. It just isn't right.

I feel like the developers take our feedback on the RNG system and throw it straight in the shredder. Will it be in 2.0? I am not sure. All I do know is that I know people quit this game till 2.0 just because of the horrible RNG system. They went to games that rewarded their time and effort, small or big. I go to a dungeon in WoW, the item that I wanted didn't drop that time, however I did get Valor Points towards other gear I am looking for. Not only that, even though the item I wanted didn't drop, it still dropped an item that someone else wanted. Fair system is fair.

I guess it is hard to go back and change it now, but the 1.xx team has absolutely no grasp on how to properly reward players for their time.

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Originally Posted by Biggs

LOL everyone asked for long term content but wasn't really specific about what you wanted. Yoshi offers something up and everyone pitches a bitch. If I am not mistaken, half the posts about the stats for relic weapons were people saying "meh, you can make better weapons with materia" So now we are bitching about how we obtain weapons no one really wants? Amazing.

Don't get me wrong, I am in agreement about the drop rates for the primal stuff, but Yoshi himself has even said all that will change in 2.0. But many of us have been playing since release and those that haven't at least prob know a few that have. Which means we either are someone or know someone that has multiple crafting jobs at 50 and have millions of gil, which to me anyway, solves the only real trouble with this system, the crafting part. Spilt milk to me but to each his own i guess. Event he drop rates for end game stuff in xi was based on some sort of luck system. This doesnt really seem much different.

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Asked for long-term content, yes. Asked for faux long-term content based solely on repetition created by shit random drop rates, no. Thousands of posts say, "Low drop rates for some stuff is fine, but we want to see actual progression also." Garuda was almost spot on, now we've got exactly what we asked to not see more of all over again.

Saying, "We're going to change that down the road. For now we're just gonna give you this one thing[Garuda] that works how you want, so you know we could do it. Instead we're going to inundate you with exactly what your saying you don't want." is not how to keep your player base.

I get that it sucks to hear that your product is disappointing, as a chef I hear it more than I like. The answer is NEVER to ignore that feedback no matter how it comes at you. This amount of feedback about something with it being so heavily against what is present screams for a change. It really makes no difference if you "thought" you did well if all your paying customers walk away and your left with too few to keep the doors open.

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Originally Posted by Enfarious

Asked for long-term content, yes. Asked for faux long-term content based solely on repetition created by shit random drop rates, no. Thousands of posts say, "Low drop rates for some stuff is fine, but we want to see actual progression also." Garuda was almost spot on, now we've got exactly what we asked to not see more of all over again.

Saying, "We're going to change that down the road. For now we're just gonna give you this one thing[Garuda] that works how you want, so you know we could do it. Instead we're going to inundate you with exactly what your saying you don't want." is not how to keep your player base.

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What exactly wasnt repetative about doing dynamis runs or farming keys for af weapons in XI again? 95% of this system is based on effort and (should you choose to) your ability to work together as an ls to obtain a common goal. Sounds to me like people are just pissed that they have to work at something for more than 5 mins and they can't solo it. Just my impression though. The only portion of the system I can see people having a ligitimate gripe about is the crafting part, and considering how many people per server have multiple 50 crafting jobs, even that argument is kind of shallow to me.

What amuses me is how many people pulling numbers out of their asses like 0/230, 0/1500 like a one clueless dumb ass. Because the lowest RNG right now is 16%, where u will takes at most 10 tries if you are very unlucky, Seals itself is close to 70-80% droprate.

But no.. people gonna go 0/230 somehow, idk how.. they just will.

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Originally Posted by Biggs

What exactly wasnt repetative about doing dynamis runs or farming keys for af weapons in XI again? 95% of this system is based on effort and (should you choose to) your ability to work together as an ls to obtain a common goal. Sounds to me like people are just pissed that they have to work at something for more than 5 mins and they can't solo it. Just my impression though. The only portion of the system I can see people having a ligitimate gripe about is the crafting part, and considering how many people per server have multiple 50 crafting jobs, even that argument is kind of shallow to me.

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the same people as usual are all hyping up how great 11s system was as usual even though it was alot rougher then this one

even you should have realized that by now


and with people coming forth that are actualy trying to get this instead of whining about how hard its going to be, and telling us that they have in fact increased the drop rate, and ways to get it, youll notice that those facts will get ignored still to whine more

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

What amuses me is how many people pulling numbers out of their asses like 0/230, 0/1500 like a one clueless dumb ass. Because the lowest RNG right now is 16%, where u will takes at most 10 tries if you are very unlucky, Seals itself is close to 70-80% droprate.

But no.. people gonna go 0/230 somehow, idk how.. they just will.

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some people were 0/100 after 1 day even though it was imposible to do it 100 times

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

What amuses me is how many people pulling numbers out of their asses like 0/230, 0/1500 like a one clueless dumb ass. Because the lowest RNG right now is 16%, where u will takes at most 10 tries if you are very unlucky, Seals itself is close to 70-80% droprate.

But no.. people gonna go 0/230 somehow, idk how.. they just will.

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This whole thread amuses me Chad. It should be titled "The Gimme Generation"

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

the same people as usual are all hyping up how great 11s system was as usual even though it was alot rougher then this one

even you should have realized that by now


and with people coming forth that are actualy trying to get this instead of whining about how hard its going to be, and telling us that they have in fact increased the drop rate, and ways to get it, youll notice that those facts will get ignored still to whine more

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I suppose I am just suprised I still get suprised Ved. As to the "even me" comment, I didn't realize I had the brain power of a chicken mcnugget but thanks for pointing that out, I will go read a book now and try to beef up the brain power :p

Brace yourselves for the surprise when the community gets things changed for the better.

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Originally Posted by EdenArchangel

Brace yourselves for the surprise when the community gets things changed for the better.

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and they will still complain

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Originally Posted by Biggs

What exactly wasnt repetative about doing dynamis runs or farming keys for af weapons in XI again? 95% of this system is based on effort and (should you choose to) your ability to work together as an ls to obtain a common goal. Sounds to me like people are just pissed that they have to work at something for more than 5 mins and they can't solo it. Just my impression though. The only portion of the system I can see people having a ligitimate gripe about is the crafting part, and considering how many people per server have multiple 50 crafting jobs, even that argument is kind of shallow to me.

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Dunno what all you've read/skipped/half read. None have asked that it be fast, just that it not be based on /random. None asked that it be easy, just that it not be based on ... /random.
I said, " faux long-term content based solely on repetition created by shit random drop rates", I did not say "No repetition." Repetition with measurable progress is more than acceptable. I go to work everyday and more often than not i'm happy to be there and enjoy it, but again I can measure the money in the bank which grows in direct proportion to the time I put in. If I went in and at the end of the day had to roll a die to see if those hours were worth anything I'd quit.

Seeing as I enjoy gaming and SE offered a forum for us to give feedback, both positive and negative, I'm going to give it. I think that up to this point they've done a decent job discerning between the BS and genuine but somehow they seem to be regressing with this.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

What amuses me is how many people pulling numbers out of their asses like 0/230, 0/1500 like a one clueless dumb ass. Because the lowest RNG right now is 16%, where u will takes at most 10 tries if you are very unlucky, Seals itself is close to 70-80% droprate.

But no.. people gonna go 0/230 somehow, idk how.. they just will.

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It's for the sake of illustrating a point, and people have gone 1/100+ on things in this game. There's no denying that it's possible to /random 100 and get <10 1000 times in a row, statistically improbable, yes, impossible absolutely not. That's the flaw in /random for everything.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

What amuses me is how many people pulling numbers out of their asses like 0/230, 0/1500 like a one clueless dumb ass. Because the lowest RNG right now is 16%, where u will takes at most 10 tries if you are very unlucky, Seals itself is close to 70-80% droprate.

But no.. people gonna go 0/230 somehow, idk how.. they just will.

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Seal drop rates are really not that bad. We accidentally screwed up last night on one the Gridania Hamlets we did and only got 32k points, yet a Vortex Seal dropped. I think the hardest thing about getting seals is winning a lot over someone else, the drop rate isn't bad at all.

What irks me mostly on the whole process is making the double melded weapon. I don't like having the process based off factors of luck. I wish the developers could have been more creative on this. But alas, have to play with cards you are dealt with. I do want that Curtana and Holy Shield and willing to put up with the process it takes to get it.

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Originally Posted by Enfarious

Dunno what all you've read/skipped/half read. None have asked that it be fast, just that it not be based on /random. None asked that it be easy, just that it not be based on ... /random.
I said, " faux long-term content based solely on repetition created by shit random drop rates", I did not say "No repetition." Repetition with measurable progress is more than acceptable. I go to work everyday and more often than not i'm happy to be there and enjoy it, but again I can measure the money in the bank which grows in direct proportion to the time I put in. If I went in and at the end of the day had to roll a die to see if those hours were worth anything I'd quit.

Seeing as I enjoy gaming and SE offered a forum for us to give feedback, both positive and negative, I'm going to give it. I think that up to this point they've done a decent job discerning between the BS and genuine but somehow they seem to be regressing with this.



It's for the sake of illustrating a point, and people have gone 1/100+ on things in this game. There's no denying that it's possible to /random 100 and get <10 1000 times in a row, statistically improbable, yes, impossible absolutely not. That's the flaw in /random for everything.

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So basically your just pissed about the crafting part then? Because thats the only part of the relic quest (that I can tell anyway) that is "random". It also makes up only about 5% of what you have to do for the total quest to be complete.

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Originally Posted by Enfarious

It's for the sake of illustrating a point, and people have gone 1/100+ on things in this game. There's no denying that it's possible to /random 100 and get <10 1000 times in a row, statistically improbable, yes, impossible absolutely not. That's the flaw in /random for everything.

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1/100 is for ifrit weapon with like 5% droprate. If you are gonna illustrate make a proper illustration for this scenario, Double melding is 16~20% chance, You just can't go over 20 really, if you are smart enough to differenciate 1/5 chance with 1/20 chance.

Stop exaggerating, it doesn't make your point more clear.

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Originally Posted by Biggs

While not white knighting, I just wanted to point out that 90% of this relic system IS based on effort. The only part that requires any luck is the double meld. And that can be walked around simply by buying one. You dont think people are gonna start double melding stuff to sell for this? Really?

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90%?

- Hamlet defense drop is RNG. Can take you 3 attempts or 1500. Average based on % is 720 (VERY FUNNY!!)
- Material drop from CC/AV is RNG.
- Getting a IV materia is either a good amount of money or a great amount of luck.
- Double meld is ONLY luck. Can blow up 0 items or 1000.

So far the only part that is not based on luck is the 25k gc seal farming (that is probably 1% of the total process).

Or are you saying that Hamlet Defense and raids are hard to do? Thay do not require great skill. You just have to repeat them over and over and over 1000 times. I stopped to have fun after the first 20 runs.

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Originally Posted by Tano

90%?

- Hamlet defense drop is RNG. Can take you 3 attempts or 1500. Average based on % is 720 (VERY FUNNY!!)
- Material drop from CC/AV is RNG.
- Getting a IV materia is either a good amount of money or a great amount of luck.
- Double meld is ONLY luck. Can blow up 0 items or 1000.

So far the only part that is not based on luck is the 25k gc seal farming (that is probably 1% of the total process).

Or are you saying that Hamlet Defense and raids are hard to do? Thay do not require great skill. You just have to repeat them over and over and over 1000 times. I stopped to have fun after the first 20 runs.

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every system in every game is rng on drops, nothing is ever truely 100%

get over it

SO far it doesn't seem that bad. This is a relic not a toy. No one is forced to get a relic, this is for the players that not only live and breath XIV but also dream it. Making them easy to get will just ruins them. Even making them a lil easier would trash the system, as of now "Your tough if you have one." On the other hand, making them easier would just result in.. "Your gimp if you don't."
Earn one, feel that satisfaction, then come back here and tell me it wasn't worth that glory!
Oh yeah and good luck to those doing this quest!! You Can Do It!!

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

every system in every game is rng on drops, nothing is ever truely 100%

get over it

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Seems you haven't played a lot of mmos lately except ff11 and 14.
As I said, they are based on luck, but you always get something good and/or you always get tokens.

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Originally Posted by Neekzz

SO far it doesn't seem that bad. This is a relic not a toy. No one is forced to get a relic, this is for the players that not only live and breath XIV but also dream it. Making them easy to get will just ruins them. Even making them a lil easier would trash the system, as of now "Your tough if you have one." On the other hand, making them easier would just result in.. "Your gimp if you don't."
Earn one, feel that satisfaction, then come back here and tell me it wasn't worth that glory!
Oh yeah and good luck to those doing this quest!! You Can Do It!!

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Even ppl who live for ff14 can have bad luck. Again, we don't want them to be easy, we just don't want them to be based on luck.

Do the 3 Hamlet Defense 100 times, Bring 4 single melded class weapons with t4 materia, Kill every single boss in the game with the unfinished weapon/random hard thing not based on luck.

This will be long and hard to do, but not based on luck. That's just an example however.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

the same people as usual are all hyping up how great 11s system was as usual even though it was alot rougher then this one

even you should have realized that by now


and with people coming forth that are actualy trying to get this instead of whining about how hard its going to be, and telling us that they have in fact increased the drop rate, and ways to get it, youll notice that those facts will get ignored still to whine more



every system in every game is rng on drops, nothing is ever truely 100%

get over it

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The problem is not how LONG it is going to take. It SHOULD take a long time because its a Relic weapon. I have no issues with that. The problem is and always has been WHAT exactly it is going to take a long time TO DO. This is not CONTENT, is not a challenge, it is not innovative, it requires very little skill, it doesn't even really require ADVENTURING.

It's not creative nor is it in ANY way shape or form FUN. Engage your player base, make them work for something, have it take a long time, make them work their asses off for it. But engage them, hold their interest. Nobody wants to spam Hamlet Defense for 120 hours. This content should NOT rely on luck of the draw, that's not a challenge, that is a gamble.

Let me throw this at you Vedis, just because MOST mmo's rely heavily on Random drops, does that mean it is a good idea? Don't you think it is a good idea to change? Try new things, better things? I find it incredibly hard to believe that in 2012 there is not a better way to go about things.

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Originally Posted by Tano

90%?

- Hamlet defense drop is RNG. Can take you 3 attempts or 1500. Average based on % is 720 (VERY FUNNY!!)
- Material drop from CC/AV is RNG.
- Getting a IV materia is either a good amount of money or a great amount of luck.
- Double meld is ONLY luck. Can blow up 0 items or 1000.

So far the only part that is not based on luck is the 25k gc seal farming (that is probably 1% of the total process).

Or are you saying that Hamlet Defense and raids are hard to do? Thay do not require great skill. You just have to repeat them over and over and over 1000 times. I stopped to have fun after the first 20 runs.

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It hasn't cost me hardly anything to get IV materia except time and some grinding which I was doing to level up anyway. If you havent figured out how to make or buy cheap convertable gear that has a chance at being IV materia by now, I don't know what to tell you. Were you on Masamune I would be happy to give you some of what I got in storage.

I just think most of this seems less difficult than half the crap you had to do in Xi. Drop rates or no. If you all see it differently then thats fine, opinions are like assholes after all. I just don't see the point of bitching about something that many of the people posting in this OP were just posting in another about how the stats for the relics weren't even that great. So many are complaining about having to do something for a piece of equipment they dont even want? It always going to be something ......

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Originally Posted by Biggs

It hasn't cost me hardly anything to get IV materia except time and some grinding which I was doing to level up anyway. If you havent figured out how to make or buy cheap convertable gear that has a chance at being IV materia by now, I don't know what to tell you. Were you on Masamune I would be happy to give you some of what I got in storage.

I just think most of this seems less difficult than half the crap you had to do in Xi. Drop rates or no. If you all see it differently then thats fine, opinions are like assholes after all. I just don't see the point of bitching about something that many of the people posting in this OP were just posting in another about how the stats for the relics weren't even that great. So many are complaining about having to do something for a piece of equipment they dont even want? It always going to be something ......

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Not actually get the materia, but the materia you want. Plus, that's not the only RNG thing I pointed out.

And, of course, FFXI system was FAR better then this one.

Let's play a game, Let's see how many retard will keep coming in telling people hamlet seals has bad drop rate when it has close to 80% drop rate and double melding 16-20% will takes 100 tries.

I am not a fans of RNG, but this is whole new level of facepalm.

I don't even know why they continue to make stalling content. We're here aren't we? We've been staying. Feels like we're just being kicked when we're down.
I've also noticed a trend that people who support the current system enjoy doing that kicking as well. The tendency to jump to arrogant, insulting, and "get over it" mentalities isn't constructive for anyone. Especially when we have the opportunity to move to a system the majority will like, and not the "get over it" few.

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Originally Posted by Biggs

So basically your just pissed about the crafting part then? Because thats the only part of the relic quest (that I can tell anyway) that is "random". It also makes up only about 5% of what you have to do for the total quest to be complete.

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Seals? Mats from dungeon coffers? Those weren't random either I guess, so yeah I'm just annoyed that I might break 50mil.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

1/100 is for ifrit weapon with like 5% droprate. If you are gonna illustrate make a proper illustration for this scenario, Double melding is 16~20% chance, You just can't go over 20 really, if you are smart enough to differenciate 1/5 chance with 1/20 chance.

Stop exaggerating, it doesn't make your point more clear.

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My sentinel's belt broke on a double meld w/ 12% chance, I'm not sure where that fits into your number scheme.
Kokoroon's Nestpicker 2/55 a friend 1/4 so who's chances are right, the 25% or the ~4%?

What your droprate has been, or even factored with others is simply a guideline, not concrete. If the RNG scaled based on attempts until you go a drop then reset you could come up with pretty much fixed values for the maximum attempts needed to get a drop otherwise:

The joy of random is that no matter what numbers I choose it's still possible:
With a 99% chance of success you can go 1/100 or 1/1 or 1/1000000, the point is being illustrated. Those are all factual numbers. You can't successfully defend random because it will randomly let you down. I also understand probs and stats and again the joy here is that to prove that something is truly 16% probable might take 1mil test cases before you get down to a <1% variance. Which part of the million do you think deserves to get weapons? The half that works for them or the half that gets randomly lucky?

I get that you think 15+% is decent, I don't know why you do, but I get that you do. The part I don't get is why you defend a system that might very well cause some who more than deserve to get things(Spent 4 hrs a day 7 days a week for 3 months) from getting them because a dice roll just won't fall in their favor.

Also, remind me to hit you up via future cross-world content, Elasandria. ^^

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Originally Posted by Tano

Not actually get the materia, but the materia you want. Plus, that's not the only RNG thing I pointed out.

And, of course, FFXI system was FAR better then this one.

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I question whether you have ever made materia before ? Most of the IV materia I seem to get is for main hand weapons, so INT, STR, ect. If your turning the weapon in and not geting it back, what difference does it make which materia it is as long as it fits in one of the weapons u need? Also, it was my understanding that whenever a group beat the hamlet, at least 1 seal would drop. So as long as you approach this with a group mindset (IE helping LS members) I think your point about seal drop in hamlet is MOOT. That just leaves getting mats and double melding.

Once again, I am not a huge fan of luck based content here any more than the rest of you, I just don't see anything in this list that would deter me from trying. Who knows though, maybe after I do I will be right here with you guys asking them to change it. Considering we haven't had very long with this system to determine how bad the drops will or won't be, I just think we should give it a go before simply seeing it on paper and shaking our heads.