The MSQ Endwalker Trial Bosses are WAY too hard for newer players to FFXIV

Huh? You're not really a new player anymore if you're this far into the MSQ.

End Walker. By now you should have gone through 50+ Dungeons and 30+ Trials and seen dozen of mechanics by now and know decent fight tactics. Not exactly a new player anymore once that sprout icon disappears

I find the msq difficulty of the last two expansions are pretty balanced, I guess. It absolutely isn't hard, but you need to concentrate a bit to win these fights. ESO comes instantly to my mind, when I'm thinking about dumbed down difficulty - you become so powerful there at some point, that you can defeat gods before they even finish their dialogue. This isn't even an exaggeration: the story boss is lying dead while still speaking, lol. Imagine this bs in FF.

The simple fact remains, the Trials in EW are nowhere near EX/Savage level content. They are perfectly balanced for the point of the game they are encountered at, the final 10 levels. If you've gone 80 levels to that point and still cannot do the mechanics that are present and know how to survive them after a few attempts of learning (Because wipes happen, will happen, and are to be expected in any new content), then that is entirely on the player's fault. It's not the fault of the trial.

This argument of just wanting a skip button and only caring about the story makes no sense. Why bother playing the game and paying a sub fee if all the player wants is to watch what equates to an MSQ compilation video on youtube.

There is absolutely nothing in any of these trials that takes anything more than an hour to learn, at the maximum, if the effort/desire is there.

Also, it is not "gatekeeping", "git gud", "harassing someone else's play", etc... for expecting at least a foundational level of competency when you are above level 80 and encountering these trials. No one is expecting a player who has no interesting in raiding to treat these normal trials like they need to nail a 100% perfect rotation and dodge every single non-one-shot mechanic. You can screw up. You can die and get rezzed. As long as one is making an effort, I'm pretty sure the rest of the party *will not care*.

I do not understand this lazy mentality of basically wanting what equates to the game playing itself. Asking for skips/dumbing down to tank&spank levels of difficulty is counter productive to the point of playing the game. The challenge level is not overly high. It's not Dark Souls. It's not punishing. It's just asking for basic, foundational concepts that have been shown to the player over and over from levels 1-80, to be done again in a different coat of paint in the EW trials.

@Poster above

Because some people forget this is a (mmo)rpg game, not an interactive movie. Some effort is actually required to clear those types of games. It's even more ironic when you realize some of these same people would actually put in the work if it was a single player game.

I never felt it was any harder than other trials from stormblood and up.

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Originally Posted by skooma_dealer

I find the msq difficulty of the last two expansions are pretty balanced, I guess. It absolutely isn't hard, but you need to concentrate a bit to win these fights. ESO comes instantly to my mind, when I'm thinking about dumbed down difficulty - you become so powerful there at some point, that you can defeat gods before they even finish their dialogue. This isn't even an exaggeration: the story boss is lying dead while still speaking, lol. Imagine this bs in FF.

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So, Rhiatyn? Or Gaius before he had the "this cutscene cannot be skipped" power?

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

Brief digression, but I actually don't think you should be able to get anything in roulette you haven't cleared, regardless of anything else in this thread. (I.e., anything that has the checkmark on it in Duty Finder.) To put this another way: if Player A has just unlocked the next story dungeon, I don't think leveling roulette should be able to give them that dungeon until they've queued into it directly and cleared it that way.

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I think this is already the case, I don't think you can get something you haven't cleared in a roulette.

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Originally Posted by Jennah

So, Rhiatyn? Or Gaius before he had the "this cutscene cannot be skipped" power?

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These two instances (and castrum too) are just poorly designed. At least SE doesn't do stuff like this anymore in msq.

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Originally Posted by LilyPendragon

I think this is already the case, I don't think you can get something you haven't cleared in a roulette.

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I don't believe it is the case. I've gotten an unlocked normal raid before and not having ran it yet. Taken me for quite the surprise when it has happened.

Trial 2 is the only one harder than normal
And I wish more were as difficult as that one, Titania, Tsukuyomi ect.

The latter two trials for SHB were kind of a joke once you became even just slightly accustomed to the mechanics which was a big disappointment for me

I love all 3 of EW's trials so far

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Originally Posted by LilyPendragon

I think this is already the case, I don't think you can get something you haven't cleared in a roulette.

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You can. I had part of Omega unlocked on an alt but never finished it, hit the normal raid roulette for the daily EXP bonus, and got the next fight I had forgotten about. (Then had to skip all of the cutscenes after, because I had just logged in for a few minutes before work and didn't have time to watch it all. Whoops.)

Isn't literally everything in the entire game put on efficient farm mode eventually? Assuming it provides worthwhile loot that is, normal trials generally do not.
In either case as those trials are currently, at least i do not want to touch them with a pole, especially with RNG deciding if your team is good unless you have a premade. The effective one shots /really/ need to be removed as they are the main reason these trials suck imo.

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Originally Posted by LilyPendragon

I think this is already the case, I don't think you can get something you haven't cleared in a roulette.

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You can't get something you haven't unlocked but you can get something you haven't done yet. Normal Raid roulette has surprised me more than once with this on an alt. Unlocked stuff intending to do it later and hello.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

Honestly, with how twitchy in reflexes things have gotten..... I don't understand how some people could even play this game. Maybe I am just old. But I am married to someone with MS and this expansion makes me think there is no way I would recommend this game to someone with any kind of motor control issue. It's a shame, because the story is so good.

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This is just silly. While I agree that recommending a game with mechanics that require quick responses and semi-fine control would be a bad idea...this idea that you are expected to be perfect is just silly. Not to mention I've played with people that only have one hand or have another disability with fine motor control and none of those people have ever said the game was too hard for them. If anything it's usually still too easy but they like it that way.

As a non-disabled person I get hit by mechanics ALLLL the time. And I'm usually the healer! Not only am I constantly having to heal myself due to my mistakes, but I'm often healing most of the party as well who also didn't dodge mechanics.

The mechanics that require perfection are usually the most forgiving ones around that give you plenty of time to move. If you fail to do so, that's not a matter of you lacking fine motor skills. It's a matter of you simply not paying attention.

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Originally Posted by LilyPendragon

I think this is already the case, I don't think you can get something you haven't cleared in a roulette.

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I believe the only exception to this is the expert roulette. Other than that, if you have unlocked it, you can get it via roulette.

Half of my omega normal raid clears are from first time clears I get via roulette lol.

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Originally Posted by Tanis_Ebonhart

I'm sure they'll get toned down eventually... But for now... If you're level 80-90 and still new then there's a huge problem.

Maybe... Maybe less people should use level skips and learn their jobs first?

Sages and Reapers I give a pass. People are still trying to figure them out fully. Summoner and Monk need re-learning too, I guess.

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A bit of a pass. Keep in mind to unlock any of that you still need a job at 70, and so you're not new.

Avoiding spoilers but the MSQ trials in this expansion are very significant to the story overall. 8 years of story culminating into these encounters.

Do you honestly think they should be THAT easy? I personally didn't find them difficult. Maybe a bit more difficult than previous story trials (which really just means you might wipe a couple times).

I think it would be worse if they were any easier. It would diminish their importance.

The only mandatory MSQ trial that was even remotely "hard" was the King Moogle Mog one, and that was simply because the game didn't indicate that there was a certain kill order so unless someone with prior knowledge marked them before hand, you could easily wipe and not understand why. All of the other trials do a good job explaining their mechanics ingame and the mechanics are usually forgiving, with you being able to soak several hits and still go on.

Answer:
MTQcapture for all the guides :3

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Originally Posted by Shironeko_Narunyan

Nah, personally I'd have a proper story mode with "skip to cut scene" button.

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You see, it's really these kinds of smooth-brain takes, alongside with the incompetence I normally witness from Duty Finder coming from non-sprout/non-returner Lv. 90 players, that further reinforces my belief that SE nerfing Steps of Faith and Royal Menagerie were really massive mistakes.

Steps of Faith and Royal Menagerie shouldn't just be un-nerfed, but a "min-ilvl" requirement should also be imposed upon both MSQ trials. Those two trials should once again serve the same purpose that they served when they were new: a natural filter to bad/lazy players who refuse to learn basic competence.

Much like any other single-player Final Fantasy game, FFXIV should be no different. Progressing through the story should not be a privilege, but an achievement. Much like the single-player FFs, if you're a smooth-brain player who refuse to learn the game mechanics and get better, then you deserve to get walled by some boss fight and be denied to see the continuation of the story until you actually invest the effort to learn from your mistakes and overcome said boss.

Do not conflate new players with bad players, because as a FFXIV veteran, I've already encountered countless sprouts who not only actually practice their rotations, but also actively learn after every wipe on a new dungeon/trial and actually clear it on the second or third try.


If you choose to be bad/lazy, you deserve to get walled by bosses. You wanna see the continuation of your story? Then either git gud, or watch the story in YouTube.

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Originally Posted by Intellion

Much like any other single-player Final Fantasy game, FFXIV should be no different. Progressing through the story should not be a privilege, but an achievement. Much like the single-player FFs, if you're a smooth-brain player who refuse to learn the game mechanics and get better, then you deserve to get walled by some boss fight and be denied to see the continuation of the story until you actually invest the effort to learn from your mistakes and overcome said boss.

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Your realize trying to use other single player Final Fantasy games as a reason for gatekeeping is entirely backwards, right? Outside of weird ones like XIII, you could go overlevel and curbstomp those bosses. Which is exactly what we do with Very Easy, or Echo, or getting players in higher level gear to carry foiks who are struggling. They didn't nerf Shinryu at first. Those of us who passed just helped along those who were having troubles, especially when we started overgearing it.

If someone can't handle that they may get randomly grouped with less than perfect players and have to step up their game to make up for it....don't let the game match them with random players?

Follow the mob
Works 97% of time
Even in extremes

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Your realize trying to use other single player Final Fantasy games as a reason for gatekeeping is entirely backwards, right? Outside of weird ones like XIII, you could go overlevel and curbstomp those bosses. Which is exactly what we do with Very Easy, or Echo, or getting players in higher level gear to carry foiks who are struggling. They didn't nerf Shinryu at first. Those of us who passed just helped along those who were having troubles, especially when we started overgearing it.

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No, my analogy works just fine.


In the single-player FF games, if a boss is kicking your ass and you decide to step back for a while to grind for levels and get better gear, and then end up curbstomping said boss with far stronger and better-prepared characters, congratulations. You actually invested the time and effort to train and improve your characters via grinding instead of crying for a way to skip the struggle altogether. Sure, powerleveling may not be the biggest-brain strat, but it's a legitimate strategy regardless. In other words, you learned from your mistake and utilized a different approach to beat the boss walling you. You improved and earned your reward.


Investing the time and effort to powerlevel and gear up to beat a boss is not the same as crying and whining for a "skip battle" or an "instant-win button" every time you get walled by a boss.
In the end, you are playing a video game, not watching a movie. The MSQ doesn't have to be Extreme/Savage difficulty, but it shouldn't cater to the "bottom-of-the-barrel smoothbrain players" either. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the game asking for even just basic gameplay competence from its players, as all games should.


And just as a heads up, FFXIV's MSQ does not, nor has it ever, required absolute perfection from its players, not even pre-nerf Steps of Faith or Royal Menagerie. All the MSQ requires is, once again, basic competence and nothing more. So if you're one of those players crying that the MSQ is "too hard/should stop being Extreme-level difficulty/should be nerfed/etc," then I'm sorry to say, but that is a 100% YOU problem, not a game design problem, and you need to go back to Lv. 50 content or earlier to pick up basic competence in your job. This is a case where "Git Gud" is very much a valid advice.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

The only issue I had with the Trials was that you couldn't use trusts for the first trial. Being late to the party meant everyone just drug me around instead of letting me learn the fight, and I had no alternative if I didn't want that. Letting us use trusts if we still wanted that blind experience would be nice.
I know they're frustrated because they've done the fight multiple times and are doing it on roulettes now, but it's just as frustrating to be rescued around and have people type the solutions to the mechanics in chat when you don't want it.

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But so do trusts. Trusts will in 98% of the times correctly execute mechanics and you just need to follow them.

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Originally Posted by Intellion

You see, it's really these kinds of smooth-brain takes, alongside with the incompetence I normally witness from Duty Finder coming from non-sprout/non-returner Lv. 90 players, that further reinforces my belief that SE nerfing Steps of Faith and Royal Menagerie were really massive mistakes.

Steps of Faith and Royal Menagerie shouldn't just be un-nerfed, but a "min-ilvl" requirement should also be imposed upon both MSQ trials. Those two trials should once again serve the same purpose that they served when they were new: a natural filter to bad/lazy players who refuse to learn basic competence.

Much like any other single-player Final Fantasy game, FFXIV should be no different. Progressing through the story should not be a privilege, but an achievement. Much like the single-player FFs, if you're a smooth-brain player who refuse to learn the game mechanics and get better, then you deserve to get walled by some boss fight and be denied to see the continuation of the story until you actually invest the effort to learn from your mistakes and overcome said boss.

Do not conflate new players with bad players, because as a FFXIV veteran, I've already encountered countless sprouts who not only actually practice their rotations, but also actively learn after every wipe on a new dungeon/trial and actually clear it on the second or third try.


If you choose to be bad/lazy, you deserve to get walled by bosses. You wanna see the continuation of your story? Then either git gud, or watch the story in YouTube.

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/signed.

Its exactly that, IF ppl reallly only care for the story go youtube - you can still RP all day in limsa if you have to...

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Originally Posted by Intellion

No, my analogy works just fine.


In the single-player FF games, if a boss is kicking your ass and you decide to step back for a while to grind for levels and get better gear, and then end up curbstomping said boss with far stronger and better-prepared characters, congratulations. You actually invested the time and effort to train and improve your characters via grinding instead of crying for a way to skip the struggle altogether. Sure, powerleveling may not be the biggest-brain strat, but it's a legitimate strategy regardless. In other words, you learned from your mistake and utilized a different approach to beat the boss walling you. You improved and earned your reward.


Investing the time and effort to powerlevel and gear up to beat a boss is not the same as crying and whining for a "skip battle" or an "instant-win button" every time you get walled by a boss.
In the end, you are playing a video game, not watching a movie. The MSQ doesn't have to be Extreme/Savage difficulty, but it shouldn't cater to the "bottom-of-the-barrel smoothbrain players" either. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the game asking for even just basic gameplay competence from its players, as all games should.


And just as a heads up, FFXIV's MSQ does not, nor has it ever, required absolute perfection from its players, not even pre-nerf Steps of Faith or Royal Menagerie. All the MSQ requires is, once again, basic competence and nothing more. So if you're one of those players crying that the MSQ is "too hard/should stop being Extreme-level difficulty/should be nerfed/etc," then I'm sorry to say, but that is a 100% YOU problem, not a game design problem, and you need to go back to Lv. 50 content or earlier to pick up basic competence in your job. This is a case where "Git Gud" is very much a valid advice.

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Not to mention grinding exists in this game, too. You hit a combat dummy until you can be not bad. If you still fail, you hit the dummy more.

I'm still bad so I still hit the dummy.

I died more on Titania in ShB then I have on the EW trial bosses.

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Originally Posted by Intellion

No, my analogy works just fine.


In the single-player FF games, if a boss is kicking your ass and you decide to step back for a while to grind for levels and get better gear, and then end up curbstomping said boss with far stronger and better-prepared characters, congratulations. You actually invested the time and effort to train and improve your characters via grinding instead of crying for a way to skip the struggle altogether. Sure, powerleveling may not be the biggest-brain strat, but it's a legitimate strategy regardless. In other words, you learned from your mistake and utilized a different approach to beat the boss walling you. You improved and earned your reward.


Investing the time and effort to powerlevel and gear up to beat a boss is not the same as crying and whining for a "skip battle" or an "instant-win button" every time you get walled by a boss.
In the end, you are playing a video game, not watching a movie. The MSQ doesn't have to be Extreme/Savage difficulty, but it shouldn't cater to the "bottom-of-the-barrel smoothbrain players" either. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the game asking for even just basic gameplay competence from its players, as all games should.


And just as a heads up, FFXIV's MSQ does not, nor has it ever, required absolute perfection from its players, not even pre-nerf Steps of Faith or Royal Menagerie. All the MSQ requires is, once again, basic competence and nothing more. So if you're one of those players crying that the MSQ is "too hard/should stop being Extreme-level difficulty/should be nerfed/etc," then I'm sorry to say, but that is a 100% YOU problem, not a game design problem, and you need to go back to Lv. 50 content or earlier to pick up basic competence in your job. This is a case where "Git Gud" is very much a valid advice.

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Basically all of this. It's been said over and over, no one is expecting savage tier level play out of MSQ things, or even Duty Finder things. What should be expected is a basic level of competence with mechanics and job understanding.

You can eat mechanics by mistakes. You can make mistakes. No one is going to get upset or go off on anyone if *they are trying*.

People ARE going to get upset at the completely lazy, not-caring "I don't wanna" attitude. "I just want a free skip.", "MSQ shouldn't have these requirements", etc.

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Originally Posted by Intellion

And just as a heads up, FFXIV's MSQ does not, nor has it ever, required absolute perfection from its players, not even pre-nerf Steps of Faith or Royal Menagerie. All the MSQ requires is, once again, basic competence and nothing more. So if you're one of those players crying that the MSQ is "too hard/should stop being Extreme-level difficulty/should be nerfed/etc," then I'm sorry to say, but that is a 100% YOU problem, not a game design problem, and you need to go back to Lv. 50 content or earlier to pick up basic competence in your job. This is a case where "Git Gud" is very much a valid advice.

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Yes, I know, I've been here 7 years now. Why do people always try to go to this argument? Good players can advocate for the MSQ being smoother to appeal to a wider audience. I have absolutely no problem carrying folks on my back that I will never see again after that run, especially if it means they can share in the enjoyment of the story the way I do. There is already plenty of content to pit ourselves against and conquer. The story is something we can all share. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if people with your outlook at why we have Trusts now. That way people who simply enjoy the story can get their carry and continue on.

I am a pretty new player 6 months completed endwalker , I am also not that young anymore 50+ So my reflexes aren’t the best, I am playing a smn, I always try to be best geared possible use the highest food buffs etc, and I do like a challenge but I also feel there to many mechanics like aoe 1 shot killers with for a newby not the best telegraphs and mechanics like doom which depends completely on healer attention if u get it. Also none of the mechanics are explained very well for a new player.

So often it does not feel completely fair when u die and sometimes I am completely lost why I died, it’s also the first mmo I play which has a huge focus for healers to do damage which may be a factor. Also a smn has no self heal to speak off so u are completely at the mercy of the healers attention.

So in the end I expected to do better In EW as we are all on even lvl playing field, but found out that this was definitely not the case everyone seemed to plow through it with no comments and I died multiple times completely lost why I died, it was def not a good experience and I felt like a complete idiot, and decide to watch YouTube explainers to be better prepared next time.

I personally don’t know how to fix this, it seems that veteran players are so used to the mechanics that’s very easy for them, but newcomers are completely lost. Maybe it’s because the mechanics are all the same and there are no real new surprising mechanics and after some veteran players aren’t surprised anymore ?

I actually attended 1 time by mistake a extreme party (in duty finder) and that did feed completely different everything was explained in front and there where a lot of markers, so that time I exactly knew what I did wrong and why I died.

I understand that this in msq cannot be done as everyone should be allowed to find out by its self, but maybe the extreme script like nature of ffxiv is a factor it seems if u do it enough the fight will be trivial as there are no surprises and u know exactly when and what will happen, which in effect makes it so that if u join a party which has done that fight a couple of times a newby is completely lost and the veterans are bored.

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Originally Posted by Intellion

You see, it's really these kinds of smooth-brain takes, alongside with the incompetence I normally witness from Duty Finder coming from non-sprout/non-returner Lv. 90 players, that further reinforces my belief that SE nerfing Steps of Faith and Royal Menagerie were really massive mistakes.

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Pretty sure menagerie never actually got nerfed. I seem to remember them specifically saying they weren't gonna nerf it.

I'm ok with the steps of faith nerf largely because the fight had a big design flaw in that there's no way to reset it when you know it's going south. Any other fight you can have everyone just kill themselves and restart, but with SoF, even if you know there's no way you are beating enrage by the 2/3rds point, you still gotta wait until he reaches the very end. And that's obnoxious. It was an experiment in boss design which I appreciate, but it ended up not being the best one.

I basically played all of EW with trusts.... so I could follow them around and it was fine. It was kind of garbage then to be thrown into trials with other players with demanding mechanics. Garbage for me and garbage for them for having to deal with me...

For those of you who tell others to "get gud"... some of us would be just fine playing without you and just with trusts, so we aren't a burden.... I'm here for the story... and frankly, since I take LONG breaks... half the time in DF I have zero recollection of fights that I have completed in the past. Some of us just don't bother retaining memory of this game once we walk away.

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Originally Posted by Espon

There's nothing wrong with wiping a few times in order to learn mechanics.

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No but people get abusive if you die more than once. And not just one person.

The difficulty of these trials are perfect. They're so fun.

In anything, you'll have Technical problems. Things not efficiently designed and then you'll have people problems. Mooooost of the time, it's a people problem.

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Originally Posted by XmissionsX

I personally don’t know how to fix this, it seems that veteran players are so used to the mechanics that’s very easy for them, but newcomers are completely lost. Maybe it’s because the mechanics are all the same and there are no real new surprising mechanics and after some veteran players aren’t surprised anymore ?

I actually attended 1 time by mistake a extreme party (in duty finder) and that did feed completely different everything was explained in front and there where a lot of markers, so that time I exactly knew what I did wrong and why I died.

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There's a couple reasons. One is what you said. These mechanics are something that over time we come to recognize because this is a very pattern-based game. Even if they shake things up a little, if the icon is the same or similar, our thoughts go instantly to "Okay I need to do this" or sometimes even muscle memory kicks in. Unfortunately, I don't really know a way to suggest fixing that for you either except maybe going back to dungeons or trials with mechanics you're not solid on and getting the rhythm down.

The other difference is that you're getting a lot of veteran players who are running their daily roulettes and lack patience for mistakes from others and aren't willing to explain anything because it would slow the run down. People are willing and often need to explain things in the Extremes, which is why your experience was different there. Unfortunately, again, you can't fix other people.

I would definitely do all you can first with Trusts. Trusts are a great way to learn. I do all MSQ available with Trusts first now. I don't just follow the NPCs but try to understand. "WTF why is Urianger running over there?" "Oh, THAT thing on the edge is why". You may be able to get the "instruction" of a sort that you need, and then could look at a video after you experience it the first time for anything you missed.

BTW, I feel that sig line. Over 10 years in EQ hardcore, years in EQII, and I still like to challenge myself but much more laid back now. I wish you were on my data center, as we could definitely have fun running together.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

There's a couple reasons. One is what you said. These mechanics are something that over time we come to recognize because this is a very pattern-based game. Even if they shake things up a little, if the icon is the same or similar, our thoughts go instantly to "Okay I need to do this" or sometimes even muscle memory kicks in. Unfortunately, I don't really know a way to suggest fixing that for you either except maybe going back to dungeons or trials with mechanics you're not solid on and getting the rhythm down.

The other difference is that you're getting a lot of veteran players who are running their daily roulettes and lack patience for mistakes from others and aren't willing to explain anything because it would slow the run down. People are willing and often need to explain things in the Extremes, which is why your experience was different there. Unfortunately, again, you can't fix other people.

I would definitely do all you can first with Trusts. Trusts are a great way to learn. I do all MSQ available with Trusts first now. I don't just follow the NPCs but try to understand. "WTF why is Urianger running over there?" "Oh, THAT thing on the edge is why". You may be able to get the "instruction" of a sort that you need, and then could look at a video after you experience it the first time for anything you missed.

BTW, I feel that sig line. Over 10 years in EQ hardcore, years in EQII, and I still like to challenge myself but much more laid back now. I wish you were on my data center, as we could definitely have fun running together.

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Well, over the years the game has gone from team jump rope (I remember when Titan was hard).... to lethal dodge ball.

It's become less of an RPG and more of a playable story with intermittent rounds of the Squid Game.

Im not an extreme player myself. I do get better with certain machanics the more i do them but i know my limitations with video games and i would classify myself as an ok player. The thing that gets me is i feel like a handycap to other players especially during those trials. I did real well during trial 2 even did it as a trust but the first and 3the mechanics just seemed to happen too quick after lighting up for me. Luckily the 1 trial someone marked themself so i became their butt buddy and stuck to their ass but forget the 3rd one i spent practically the whole first phase eating dirt... phase 2 wasnt bad though.

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Originally Posted by CrayonsAndPaint

Let me start off by saying the trials are easy for me, because I’m used to harder fights like those, but my friends who are new to the game, couldnt for the life of them understand what to do when doing the Zodiark trial. There’s honestly no need to make MSQ trial bosses that hard.

I just think it’s a bit extreme.

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The trials were not too hard. The second one was a piece of cake. The first one, after you understand the mechanics a little bit was no issue. I think we downed it in one shot. We already have completely face roll dungeons, let's not ruin trials as well...