SE: Please tone it down a hair

But of course weather its for a good thing or a bad thing.. SE will take this into consideration, and shorten out the characters words, because some people think the story isn't "magical". However, some change is good, so maybe it might be better now.. who knows?

All I know is.. better becareful what you wish for.. because you might just... get it...

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Originally Posted by Eagleheart

The point is not valid. Several people here simply have nothing better to do than flail their arms wildly at problems that amount to nothing aside from their own personal preferences.

With that said, I must stand back and realize how fruitless this exercise is. o______O These threads would probably die off if sensible people did not post in reply to them.

Thus goes the story of the forums, I suppose.

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So you'd choose to censor threads that feature opinions with which you do not agree?

Has history taught us nothing?

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So in your traveled opinion, how would you rate the interior of your colon?

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This is precisely the kind of commentary that leads me to deride and answer in protest to your posts.

You are full of pomp and posture, but ultimately you've nothing better to do than complain.

It's irritating. It's worrisome that the Devs might actually heed you; "squeaky wheel gets the grease", as it were.

When it comes right down to it, you're just being exasperating for no reason at all. (o.0 ) Oh, and you're not particularly refined, nor fun to talk to, and you're pretty vulgar, too, and vulgarity is typically the hallmark of someone who hasn't anything meaningful to say.

Shock jock!

Later, gator. (<o.o)

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So you'd choose to censor threads that feature opinions with which you do not agree?

Has history taught us nothing?

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http://winnowingfork.files.wordpress...pg?w=360&h=450

I said the thread would die off if not addressed by sensible people. I didn't squelch your commentary, or vote to throw a duct tape bit over your metaphorical mouth.

(o.0 ) You can do better than this kind of pretentiousness, right?

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Again all opinions, and you have your right to have them, just don't pull them off as facts, and everyone is happy.. that's all I ask..

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"It's just an opinion" is all you can say because you have no decent response. I'm starting to think you're the one who hasn't read any dialogue Starlord.

You're acting like "Opinions" are thing that just happen when the fact is that the "opinion" is the reaction to the actual facts. You know the goings on the in the story?

"What you post is an opinion and therefore doesn't matter" belittles peoples posts. Stop saying it.

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Originally Posted by Eagleheart

http://winnowingfork.files.wordpress...pg?w=360&h=450

I said the thread would die off if not addressed by sensible people. I didn't squelch your commentary, or vote to throw a duct tape bit over your metaphorical mouth.

(o.0 ) You can do better than this kind of pretentiousness, right?

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You've been trying to discourage anyone from posting in this thread with facetiousness and derision...
Intimidation... a very old tactic....

To the point though... The plot is rich and intriguing... I will give you that... the characters are well thought out... but without voice actors to bring them all to life, a little more attention needs to be paid to the intricacies of the dialogue...

We all have that friend who can't tell a story very well... Doesn't mean the story isn't there... just the relay vessel could use some work.

Thats all... I just love the story so much... I think every single person who reads it should fall in love with it too....
And when there are a number of people who don't... Let's try to figure out why that is....

It doesn't mean less words... just more important words

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Originally Posted by Eagleheart

Shut up, moron

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There. Shortened that for you.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

"It's just an opinion" is all you can say because you have no decent response. I'm starting to think your the one who hasn't read any dialogue Starlord.

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Because, I choose not to get into such a debacle! All you guys are doing is throwing around your weight.. and its something I'm not going to through myself into.. however I will state how the community is doing in this thread or any thread for that matter, that seems to be getting out of control!

Edit: it's not the Opinion I'm concerned about.. its the whole deal of " making your statement as facts" is what bothers me like Majah was doing.

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You've been trying to discourage anyone from posting in this thread with facetiousness and derision...
Intimidation... a very old tactic....

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I am pointing out the logical fallacies in the arguments presented in this thread, without apology. Present a fallacious argument, you will likely be called on it. That isn't intimidation, and if you think it to be so, you've got a problem in your debate technique (one that is shared by virtually every politician in the world, might I add).

The argument can be made that calling out someone for stating that you are wrong is a form of intimidation. (>.> ) But really, it's just a weak, old-as-human-history defensive tactic that has never been terribly effective.

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There. Shortened that for you.

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*scratches chin*

You guys get awfully defensive about your much-vaunted, inviolate opinions, don'cha?

Well, have it your way. If you cannot do better than that, there's no point talking at all.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Because, I choose not to get into such a debacle! All you guys are doing is throwing around your weight.. and its something I'm not going to through myself into.. however I will state how the community is doing in this thread or any thread for that matter, that seems to be getting out of control!

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lol did you just call me fat?

It's not getting out of control but the opinions nicely voiced by people who want a change are getting shouted down by fans who want us to believe that the problem exists in our own heads even though it's clear we are avid readers and FF fans.

FF's used to have very 'simplified', easy to understand language. Starting with FF12, I noticed a HUGE 'elevation' in language. I was surprised by the amount of huge words the NPC's were suddenly using compared to FF's of the past. I believe it may have something to do with their 'target audience'. Many of us that 'grew up' with FF are now old enough to fully comprehend the complex language.

Or, an alternative... they hired different writers.. or, different translators? :O

Sidenote: I notice a LOT of puns in the 'English' version of the game. "In for Garuda Awakening" ('rude awakening') is one example. How do these translate into other languages? Do they change it to a phrase that makes sense?

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

lol did you just call me fat?

It's not getting out of control but the opinions nicely voiced by people who want a change are getting shouted down by fans who want us to believe that the problem exists in our own heads even though it's clear we are avid readers and FF fans.

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Hey! I feel Fat! So that makes it even! :P.

All I'm saying is state opinion, that's cool, but don't pull them off as facts like some people were doing.. and I wouldn't be even posting in this thread lol, that is all I'm saying :p.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Hey! I feel Fat! So that makes it even! :P.

All I'm saying is state opinion, that's cool, but don't pull them off as facts
like some people were doing.. and I wouldn't be even posting in this thread lol, that is all I'm saying :p.

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Off topic but ok :P Clearing up the main series quest would be an improvement. Plain and simple. The Main series quest is nebulous. It's not until the the GC quests that there is a clear objective and a clear enemy.

I'll go ahead and say it: The Main Series quests seriously heck the bed.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Off topic but ok :P Clearing up the main series quest would be an improvement. Plain and simple. The Main series quest is nebulous. It's not until the the GC quests that there is a clear objective and a clear enemy.

I'll go ahead and say it: The Main Series quests seriously heck the bed.

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Well. of course, I agree the Main story quests was a bit eh.. but the GC missions under Yoshi-P's Order, is awesome in my book =).

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Well. of course, I agree the Main story quests was a bit eh.. but the GC missions under Yoshi-P's Order, is awesome in my book =).

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Most of Yoshi's Quests are very well done. In fact I wish I had more of them.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Most of Yoshi's Quests are very well done. In fact I wish I had more of them.

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In which gets me even more excited for 2.0! Like seriously! <3

Hahaha... I think you guys aren't seeing my point...
Starlord and I actually share in our love of the game and story quite often on the forum...

I think the underlying story is incredible... and the characters are well thought out, and well placed....

Gaius van Baelsar, enigmatically deep, wants to conquer Eorzea, not destroy it... He is indeed the "Leo" to Darnus' "Kefka"

And Nael van Darnus... A villain truly worthy of the series if I've ever seen one... Kefka, Sephiroth, Gabranth and Grahf (OK, maybe Gaius looks more like Grahf) all rolled into one...

Thancred... who might just be the ladies man we all wanted Edgar, Irvine and Balthier to be

One departure form the previous games (Which I love) is the mystery behind the empire...
In most of the other games... you are immediately shoved right into the underbelly of the oppressive regime from which you rebel (Narshe, Midgar, Galbadia).... But in this game you don't see the empire.. You have no idea what they're planning. You haven't seen their cities OR what they are truly capable of... It builds a tension, like chasing Sephiroth across an ocean, not knowing what to expect on the other side.

If this were an offline game... I just know you'd be running with the Circle of knowing... It's awesome... This story could rival ANY of the offline titles.. IF the dialogue succeeds at pulling people in...
The world is frikkin ending and everyone is speaking in poems and riddles....

I want to see Urianger as the bumbling bookworm who lost his diary... pages scattering in the wind....

I want to bask in the aged wisdom and leadership of Louisoix

Feel the seething venom flow from the words of Darnus... make me hate him SE.... it wont even take much... I promise...

Show me the defiant spirit of Merlwyb, Let me see how being the only female Roegadyn conflicts with her lesbian lifestyle...

I disagree that Gabranth was a villain. And I don't think we've seen enough of Nael to rank him anywhere yet. Maybe when he stops raving non-sense and gets to action I'll start respecting him any more. "Baelsar" (thanks for the reminder) I find more interesting because he'd rather shoot guns than words.

There's a lot we don't know, and that's good, like you said it builds tension.

But I still have a gripe with some of the writing. But I don't want the story to change.

At least, when the writing is simpler, then, people will quit /poking me when I'm trying to read and play "find the message".

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

I disagree that Gabranth was a villain. And I don't think we've seen enough of Nael to rank him anywhere yet. Maybe when he stops raving non-sense and gets to action I'll start respecting him any more. "Baelsar" (thanks for the reminder) I find more interesting because he'd rather shoot guns than words.

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I see what you're saying... but if you are going to make that leap about Gabranth, then you might as well say Darth Vader wasn't a villain for the same reason.... Also FFXII needed Gabranth...
Who else were we to fear? Vayne? Cid? Venat, the overrated Bogey? hehe

Of course we have to see how it all plays out to weigh in on Darnus... but he has so much evil potential....
With Sephiroth, we got to see him go crazy.... but Darnus is like Kefka in the sense that he is already stark raving mad

One thing I did love about the sephiroth story is as much as he was THE villain. through much of the story he is built up as a hero, admired even, by the main character

I do like the Baelsar/Darnus dynamic though... Light and dark antagonists (Where the dark one teases our sensibilities by wearing the white gear), and the light one is still a bad guy overall....

It has depth... and I understand what Eagle and Star are saying... they don't want the dialogue to be dumbed down so much that it betrays the true depth of the story...

But here is my thing... why is EVERYONE so verbose... In a world as diverse as Eorzea, there has to be someone that shoots from the hip and gets to the damn point... right?

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Originally Posted by Ryuko

FF's used to have very 'simplified', easy to understand language. Starting with FF12, I noticed a HUGE 'elevation' in language. I was surprised by the amount of huge words the NPC's were suddenly using compared to FF's of the past. I believe it may have something to do with their 'target audience'. Many of us that 'grew up' with FF are now old enough to fully comprehend the complex language.

Or, an alternative... they hired different writers.. or, different translators? :O

Sidenote: I notice a LOT of puns in the 'English' version of the game. "In for Garuda Awakening" ('rude awakening') is one example. How do these translate into other languages? Do they change it to a phrase that makes sense?

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Localization, not translation.

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Originally Posted by lordvr

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ryuko

FF's used to have very 'simplified', easy to understand language. Starting with FF12, I noticed a HUGE 'elevation' in language. I was surprised by the amount of huge words the NPC's were suddenly using compared to FF's of the past. I believe it may have something to do with their 'target audience'. Many of us that 'grew up' with FF are now old enough to fully comprehend the complex language.

Or, an alternative... they hired different writers.. or, different translators? :O

Sidenote: I notice a LOT of puns in the 'English' version of the game. "In for Garuda Awakening" ('rude awakening') is one example. How do these translate into other languages? Do they change it to a phrase that makes sense?

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Localization, not translation.

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What that mean is instead of just translating it... they essentially rewrite it, keeping the main idea the same but adapting it to a cultural different audience

So the Japanese name for the quest "In for Garuda Awakening" could be a different Japanese play on words... or no joke at all.. it could just be "Garuda Kill quest"

I find it easy to understand... I quite like the subtleties of the dialogue in this game eluding to certain things, I think it's great. On the other hand, whoever comes up with the names of quests should be 'pun'ished.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Buddhsie

I find it easy to understand... I quite like the subtleties of the dialogue in this game eluding to certain things, I think it's great. On the other hand, whoever comes up with the names of quests should be 'pun'ished.

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Are you my... "Brother from another Mother?"

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Originally Posted by Eagleheart

This is precisely the kind of commentary that leads me to deride and answer in protest to your posts.

You are full of pomp and posture, but ultimately you've nothing better to do than complain.

It's irritating. It's worrisome that the Devs might actually heed you; "squeaky wheel gets the grease", as it were.

When it comes right down to it, you're just being exasperating for no reason at all. (o.0 ) Oh, and you're not particularly refined, nor fun to talk to, and you're pretty vulgar, too, and vulgarity is typically the hallmark of someone who hasn't anything meaningful to say.

Shock jock!

Later, gator. (<o.o)

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<(^-^)< ^(~-~)^ >(^.^)> Yadda yadda yadda I'm a jerk who talks too much and demotes everyone who doesn't agree with me to uneducated dolt status who should keep their traps shut in my presence.


Every single Eagleheart post ever. There aren't that many yet each one is so full of self loving misplaced superiority that is makes me upturn my hands in mock surprise at every turn. At Rokien makes me laugh every once in awhile.

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Originally Posted by Zaaku

<(^-^)< ^(~-~)^ >(^.^)> Yadda yadda yadda I'm a jerk who talks too much and demotes everyone who doesn't agree with me to uneducated dolt status who should keep their traps shut in my presence.


Every single Eagleheart post ever. There aren't that many yet each one is so full of self loving misplaced superiority that is makes me upturn my hands in mock surprise at every turn. At Rokien makes me laugh every once in awhile.

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Why does Rokien always get Brought up.. He didn't even SAY anything in this thread... surprisingly... lol

Rokien will *always* be relevant, haha.

That man is 8 shades of crazy.

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Originally Posted by Zaaku

Rokien will *always* be relevant, haha.

That man is 8 shades of crazy.

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Yeah, drive everyone up a wall! >.> lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rydin

But here is my thing... why is EVERYONE so verbose... In a world as diverse as Eorzea, there has to be someone that shoots from the hip and gets to the damn point... right?

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Spoiler (I guess)

"Cid: Roland! Hah, I bloody knew it'd be you. And I'm glad it is.
Cid: I'd all but resolved to make a ruin of whatever face came through that door─save yours. Truth be told, I've scarce had a moment to myself since Dalamud ripened. There's much to be done, and I don't take kindly to interruptions.
Cid: I'm told you have news of the red moon. Well, what is it, man? Go on.
Cid: Is that so? Well, you're not blind. You can see as well as any how large Dalamud has grown in the sky.
Cid: Of course, it isn't really growing at all.
Cid: It's drawing closer. The closer something is, the bigger it looks. Even the most unlettered Gridanian would concede that.
Cid: It's as we feared─if the thing stays its current course, it will fall to Eorzea. What's more, what will fall is no mere rock.
Cid: It is a star crafted in antiquity by the hands of man and raised to the heavens by his hubris. As of today, only a few among the Empire and mine own Ironworks are privy to those great technologies of old.
Cid: Should it fall... <sigh> Bloody hells.
Cid: A failed attempt to waken Dalamud ten years past wiped an entire city from the face of Hydaelyn─every last stone and soul of it. From that, I daresay Eorzea is not like to survive its impact with more than a crater to show for it.
Cid: Mayhaps the land itself will cease to exist... No, even that is mundane for van Darnus. If that prating knave is intent on turning the power of the crystals to the red moon, I fear something far worse. But what...?
Cid: Bah, that question will have to wait. For now, what we must rather ask ourselves is this─how is the Empire controlling Dalamud?
Cid: They'd not be toiling to bring it down were there chance of it landing on Garlean territory.
Cid: But the lunar transmitter was obliterated in the tragedy of ten years past. It was the only device capable of controlling Dalamud. They couldn't have built another Allagan transmitter. No... Could they?
Cid: Could it all be tied to the crystalline power van Darnus seeks to channel to the red moon? Is there some new Garlean base?
Cid: Hm? Bah, my apologies, Roland. I'm grateful for the information you've brought. I'll see to it our studies take it into account.
Cid: Ah yes, before we say our farewells, I've been asked to let you know that KanESenna wishes to have words with you. She awaits you before Stillglade Fane.
Cid: Hm? No. I've not the faintest idea what it's about, but I can't imagine it'll be all bad."

Cid is quite straight forward - hes one of the few, along with the lesser members of the Circle that actually just lays things out. Even the Gridanian NPC points out his.... colorful bluntness.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rydin

What that mean is instead of just translating it... they essentially rewrite it, keeping the main idea the same but adapting it to a cultural different audience

So the Japanese name for the quest "In for Garuda Awakening" could be a different Japanese play on words... or no joke at all.. it could just be "Garuda Kill quest"

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Thanks for the reply. I figured it was something like that. Today, I did a <Hamlet Defense> with a pickup group including some people from Japan. At one point, one of the JP's asked, "We done with defensive war?" None of us could figure out what she meant until I realized it was probably what their version of 'Hamlet Defense' is, or at least what they decided to translate it as.

I personally think our puns are kinda cute.

Also, this is another change from other FF's... Have you noticed how outright raunchy/suggestive some NPC's are? I picked a Miqo'te path companion because I thought we could be buddies on our path to save Eorzea... But she constantly flirts with me. Many other NPC's do it too. I've also noticed an increase in crude language (cursing) that I did not see in their past games.

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Originally Posted by Asiaine

Hello,

If you are referring to the choice of words used and the way sentences are made, I can understand your difficulty. It is by no means the modern vernacular, choosing rather to rely on words that are less common but more prominent in slightly archaic literature.

I think it is healthy and to be admired that they choose to keep it more sophisticated. Also gives it that sense that it's 'English' but not quite 'English'. Almost if you are reading Olde English of Yore ^.^;

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i think you said this very well! people in opposition can learn a thing or two from this game, but, 1st, my, frandz, u, must... (actl)y reed it!!!11!!1!1one

My dear Ryuko, this game REALLY outdos itself with the fanservice every second I spend in it. Some things are downright absurd, and I swear, the Miner's Guild aint the worst offender.

Although the Miqo'te path companion is actually vastly hilarious in her use of language (at least to a non-native)

I haven't had many issues with this in-game except a little in Limsa because of the accents. Where I do find some trouble is the lore/stories posted on the Lodestone. The word play can make me go cross-eyed at times. D: That, I feel, could be toned down a notch.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nabiri

I haven't had many issues with this in-game except a little in Limsa because of the accents. Where I do find some trouble is the lore/stories posted on the Lodestone. The word play can make me go cross-eyed at times. D: That, I feel, could be toned down a notch.

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Too much alliteration for you?

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Originally Posted by Rjain

Have you ever read Shakespeare?

There are reasons Shakespeare remains one of the most popular and enjoyed play-writes in history. Oh yeah, and there's pages upon pages of the same difficult English. But yet, people continue to enjoy it. A surprise! Those people must enjoy reading and/or stories and/or dramatic performances. Much like what the dialogue is aimed at in this game. People who enjoy reading and/or stories and/or dramatic performances. If you as a player do not fit into having the amount of patience required to read, then you may simply skip the stories and do well not to complain.

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The worrying thing is... Shakespeare was not writing for the educated and upper classes... quite the contrary. To suggest his writings and concepts were difficult and advanced reveals the truth about our lack of comprehension and limited literary competence.

Sad are we, for living in a world of 'tl;dr -> LOL big words r l@m3. Gimme stuff!'

As someone who read Great Expectations in fifth grade, even I agree with the OPs sentiment. The conversations in this game can make it very difficult to follow for someone without a college degree in English literature, or an unabridged copy of the Oxford English dictionary lying around.

(Also, I know it might be a lot to ask, but can there please be SOME Miqo'te NPCs that don't talk like streetwalking prostitutes?)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kiroh

As someone who read Great Expectations in fifth grade, even I agree with the OPs sentiment. The conversations in this game can make it very difficult to follow for someone without a college degree in English literature, or an unabridged copy of the Oxford English dictionary lying around.

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Is that all they had you read in school? o.o! Not picking, just it is interesting to note all our experiences and admirations here will differ greatly based on our backgrounds and personal interests.

Whereas I, who read vast vast quantities of literature (many of the 'modern' poets, historic poets, plays, English/French/Russian, and even operas (standard school education ^.^;; )) will obviously have a different perspective then some who are giving a very strict set of literature to read (3-5 american novels, for example).

So it is not suprising we all have different views on what is good, and what is not. What is tolerable, and what is not. What is enjoyable, and what is not.

Sadly, there is no single solution to make all happy. Fortunately, there are many solutions available such that everyone will find one they like.

While I will say here, the syntax, vocabulary and even storylines can be on the more 'challenging' side of literature it is by no means so difficult that it would need to be 'toned down'. That being said, there is room for improvement in the actual telling of the story.

But some of this, sadly, is due to the fact that we get it piece-by-piece that by the time we get to the next 'chapter' we forgot the previous one ^.^;; If each 'chapter' was made more prominent, more complete, more detailed and fullfilling, then this would lead to a more enriched process.

Some ways that I think this can be 'remedied' is if we could replay ALL the quests/side-quests from our Inns, and see them in the correct order. It can also be 'enhanced' (after the fact) so that it can be made more complete (perhaps more dialogue, more scenes, etc.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eagleheart

Different characters, different story. (>.> ) Different motivations, different personalities.

If you don't like the story, that's fine. But damn, just say so and be done with it.

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Again it has nothing to do with the story or not wanting to read, I love how people have time to post but not time to read what has previously been said just in case what they say has already been touched on. lol. These forums I tell you.

edit: While I quoted one person in particular it's a general observation of this thread and others..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rydin

Too much alliteration for you?

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Just a bit more than I like. Haha. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asiaine

Is that all they had you read in school? o.o! Not picking, just it is interesting to note all our experiences and admirations here will differ greatly based on our backgrounds and personal interests.

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They actually didn't have me read it, I read it in my spare time at home. It's not considered particularly normal literary fare for a 10 year old where I grew up.

Still, I was always under the impression that the point of telling a story was reaching the widest audience possible to convey your message to, which was why Shakespeare used the language he did in his works, and why they have stood the test of time.