*SPOILERS* Terrified for the remaining Scions!

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Originally Posted by Snorky

What huge amount of fake deaths? Or rather whom? Are you talking about Y'stola being caught in the aetherial sea? I am not sure about this huge amount you are talking about?

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Yshtola in ARR,HW,SB,and ShB. All the scions at the end of ARR. Thancred in ShB. Graha in 5.3, arguably base ShB. Yotsuyu and Gosetsu in SB. Probably more that i’m missing.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Yshtola in ARR,HW,SB,and ShB. All the scions at the end of ARR. Thancred in ShB. Graha in 5.3, arguably base ShB. Yotsuyu and Gosetsu in SB. Probably more that i’m missing.

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Don't forget the original and most infamous -- Nanamo.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

Because they invented a completely new personality to sell us a new mandatory bff immediately after a heroic and touching death scene. In the CT quests/SHB storyline he was eager to work with us and looked up to us but he didn't trip over his feet wiggle ears OwO UwU w-w-wol kun~ around us. I liked the exarch, I liked 2.x graha. I do not like what I've been saddled with.

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Yep. I wasn't really a huge fan of Graha from the CT times but it wasn't that big a deal because he was a side character that barely existed. As Exarch he became interesting and actually mostly likeable, but his story completed in a very satisfying way. The choice of self sacrifice from such an innocent place suited the character and gave him closure. Post-Exarch they not only resurrected the goofy, overbearing WoL fanboy he used to be but also amped him up by 1000% to be a goofy, overbearing completely besotted WoL stalker that you're forced into having in your adventuring party. It wasn't just robbing the character of a natural end to his story, it was turning him into a weaponized retcon aimed squarely at those who didn't find him "Oh so adorable and perfect and must protecc" before.

I hope everybody is ready for him to be omnipresent in EW considering he's ishikawa's husbando ;)

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Yshtola in ARR,HW,SB,and ShB.

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Being fair, the ARR and HW examples are the same incident. She disappeared in 2.5 and wasn't found until near the end of 3.0.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Being fair, the ARR and HW examples are the same incident. She disappeared in 2.5 and wasn't found until near the end of 3.0.

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HW one i meant when they gave her the consequence of her eyesight causing her health to supposedly deteriorate only for it to never pull through.I think they even mention it could eventually kill her.

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Originally Posted by Rinhi

I hope everybody is ready for him to be omnipresent in EW considering he's ishikawa's husbando ;)

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I would certainly hope the writers dont let their personal favorites dictate what direction the story goes. Part of being a good writer is staying unbiased with the characters you write.

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Originally Posted by Cebo

Don't forget the original and most infamous -- Nanamo.

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Vidofnir, Honoraint... to mention a few lesser ones.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

HW one i meant when they gave her the consequence of her eyesight causing her health to supposedly deteriorate only for it to never pull through.I think they even mention it could eventually kill her.

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Which is still a consequence of the first use of Flow, not a separate near-death fakeout.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Which is still a consequence of the first use of Flow, not a separate near-death fakeout.

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Isn’t it the use of the crystal eye that causes the deterioration? If it is then that’s technically a separate event. She could choose not to use it. My point is that it’s a separate event that has the consequence of death, but after that point it isn’t even mentioned anymore and there’s no signs of deterioration, in fact in shb she gets a power up.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Isn’t it the use of the crystal eye that causes the deterioration? If it is then that’s technically a separate event. She could choose not to use it. My point is that it’s a separate event that has the consequence of death, but after that point it isn’t even mentioned anymore and there’s no signs of deterioration, in fact in shb she gets a power up.

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Look carefully at the scenes right after she wakes up after being rescued from the Lifestream. Her eyes have already gone gray. Nobody seems to notice until Matoya asks her about it later. (Also, it's Krile who actually uses the Crystal Eye.)

There's no real consequence for it because it's supposed to take time off of her lifespan, but the game's timeline has barely moved since then. Unless a significant time skip happens, it'll never matter.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

(slugging the younger Fortemps son comes to mind)

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But if he wasn't there, the WoL would have done it instead. I can't describe my disappoinment when they didn't let my Lalafell do a "shoryuken!" to reach his chin.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Look carefully at the scenes right after she wakes up after being rescued from the Lifestream. Her eyes have already gone gray. Nobody seems to notice until Matoya asks her about it later. (Also, it's Krile who actually uses the Crystal Eye.)

There's no real consequence for it because it's supposed to take time off of her lifespan, but the game's timeline has barely moved since then. Unless a significant time skip happens, it'll never matter.

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I know that she was already blind by then. I thought the whole thing with the crystal eye was that it would allow Yshtola to still have aethersight, but would just cause a drain on her health. Must be remembering it wrong though.

Matoya brought up the aethersight in her first appearance, when we were still looking for a way into Azys Lla. The Crystal Eye came up later, while trying to track down the still-missing Thancred and Minfilia in patch 3.1.

still, yshtola has been all but completely ignoring the downsides of her aethersight as if the writers completely forgot about it, considering she willingly uses her own aether in various situations where others could've easily done it, i.e. getting the talos to run again when alphinaud, ryne, the wol and alisae are right there or the porxie stuff in limsa and who knows how much she used it in the time on the first

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

There's no real consequence for it because it's supposed to take time off of her lifespan, but the game's timeline has barely moved since then. Unless a significant time skip happens, it'll never matter.

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It's been 3-4 years ingame since then, if something is going to happen with it, it's probably going to be in EW.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

We watched someone get skewered, turn into a sin eater before our eyes, and then we fought them in the first dungeon. That did pretty well to properly display the severity of the situation and the actual stakes in the story for me.

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Yeah, and all that could have been avoided if Alisaie and the WoL didn't just stop and stare when she attacked that sin eater. Which leads us to wonder if the scions enjoy watching innocent civilians die. Maybe the stakes are so low for them that they just want to get the occasional reminder that there actually are stakes. Not for the scions of course, but for someone. Cutscene incompetence is a trope the writers love.

I just want Lyse to die already

worst npc in ffxiv

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Originally Posted by Lily_Skye

I just want Lyse to die already

worst npc in ffxiv

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not even close

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

It's been 3-4 years ingame since then, if something is going to happen with it, it's probably going to be in EW.

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It actually hasn’t apparently. The twins were 16 at the start iirc. Ryne still regards them as around her age and she’s 16-17. Iirc there’s only one passage of time comment we’ve gotten and it’s the boat ride to kugane.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

It actually hasn’t apparently. The twins were 16 at the start iirc. Ryne still regards them as around her age and she’s 16-17. Iirc there’s only one passage of time comment we’ve gotten and it’s the boat ride to kugane.

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That could be because of how they look. We were told in the last patch that Elezen look like teens until they are much older, so Ryne may just be making assumptions. But also when asked the devs have stated to not worry about it. However we know from in game quests and text that its been at least a couple years since ARR.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

That could be because of how they look. We were told in the last patch that Elezen look like teens until they are much older, so Ryne may just be making assumptions. But also when asked the devs have stated to not worry about it. However we know from in game quests and text that its been at least a couple years since ARR.

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What quests or texts state this? Because the twins are still regarded as underage, that doesnt have to do with appearance. The way ryne compared them definitely wasn’t making assumptions as i’m sure she was told of their age lol. Mentally they may be older due to the first shenanigans, but physically they’re still the same age they were before.

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Originally Posted by Snorky

Honestly I don't care about the identites of the players and if they are book writers. What I care about is the continuation of the journey of the WoL. I didn't say there should be no death I said I would rather they give the WoL a failure or two or a journey of their own. Or that we become dispondent and want to persue who we are. That is why I asked are we even a being who was born into this world or some vessel that carries the crystals essence? Hear, feel, think. These are words in my mind of a created being specifically made to be the WoL being breathed life into. But, think do we as a portrait of the WoL really have a past? I want us to falter along the way to feel dispair and know we are a part of the world. The scions are to me like a group of friends some fall along the way and some just fade away. Not unlike real life. I want a deeper delve into the WoL and who they really are. But to kill the scions all off is not really moving the story along. Honestly I love this story I will not disparage the author as some have done in this thread. I can say what I want without being a diva thinking my opinion is the only one. I just don't thinking killing them all is the way to achieve that end.

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The WoL only has a past if you - their creator - gives them one. That's not for the MSQ to do, that's all in your hands and your imagination. You sound as though it would surprise you to discover how detailed the silent, offscreen story is for a lot of PCs. And how much we would all scream and shout if the MSQ tried to impose 'character development' or 'backstory' on us. Because the WoL never directly says anything of significance, they can be whatever their creator chooses.

Elai dislikes most of the Scions; she is fed up of being used by them, treated like a weapon, expected to do what they say without question. She's close to cussing the lot of them and walking out. She has lots of friends but they're not Scions (apart from Estinien now), they're other NPCs or PCs (the characters, not the players, the players are friends of mine. Elai is not me, she is a character I have created in a story I am telling, with some help from SE)

Oh, and if some plot twist doesn't kill off G'raha finally, Elai will do it herself.

I can't recall any official statement of just how much time has passed since ARR. Probably to handwave why children in the game (like Khloe Aliapoh, for example) never age.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

I can't recall any official statement of just how much time has passed since ARR. Probably to handwave why children in the game (like Khloe Aliapoh, for example) never age.

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According to the writers, there is no passage of time since ARR, despite quests referencing other events as being happened "a year ago" etc. We're stuck in a Simpsons time bubble until they decide otherwise.

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A: Long ago, you mentioned that 1.0 took place in a “Simpsons Time Bubble.” Are we still in a bubble? Or does time move now that we know Patch = Canon?

KF: It’s still a bubble; you have to have a bubble. There are players joining in Heavensward that are starting at the beginning. The bubble’s just gotten bigger.

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Maybe after Endwalker, there will be a time skip and the twins will be adults if they make a cameo.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

What quests or texts state this? Because the twins are still regarded as underage, that doesnt have to do with appearance. The way ryne compared them definitely wasn’t making assumptions as i’m sure she was told of their age lol. Mentally they may be older due to the first shenanigans, but physically they’re still the same age they were before.

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Quoting dialogue from Bajsaljen from the Save the Queen questline about the Bozja Incident. Giving the full talk for context purposes.

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It was roughly twenty years ago, if I'm not mistaken. The Empire, fearful of the threat posed by primals and hte tribes who summoned them, devised a plan to wipe them out. The Meteor project. Through the use of magitek, they intended to recreate ancient sorcery capable of calling down meteors. At the helm of the project was their chief engineer, Midas nan Garlond. In time, every last one of their research facilities was involved in its development. The project would take a perilous turn when it was discovered that the lesser moon Dalamud was, in fact, a satellite of Allagan design. They were determined to make it part of their plans. And so they erected a colossal transmission tower, designed to control Dalamud. Its first test would also prove to be its last...

For lack of eyewitnesses, what happened next is difficult to describe. It is often described as an explosion, but the ruins showed no signs of gunpowder or magic. We only know that a terrible light shown from the heavens that night. In an instant, the citadel was gone. Its citizens and soldiers...my family...

It is a terrifying thought that Bahamut is the reason Dalamud responded with such destructive force, but needless to say, all work on the Meteor project was halted immediately. Five years later, however, Nael van Darnus set the wheels of the project back into motion. His devotion was rewarded with the coming of the Seventh Umbral Calamity. The world has already paid too great a cost for the Garleans' ambition... They must be stopped.

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Considering Dalamud dropping was 5 years ago from the start of ARR, yet he mentions 20 years ago when ARR mentions that the Bozja Incident was 15 years ago, it means its been around 5 years ingame.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Quoting dialogue from Bajsaljen from the Save the Queen questline about the Bozja Incident. Giving the full talk for context purposes.



Considering Dalamud dropping was 5 years ago from the start of ARR, yet he mentions 20 years ago when ARR mentions that the Bozja Incident was 15 years ago, it means its been around 5 years ingame.

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Eh, dunno how much that really translates into the actual game. Yoshi P himself has said iirc the game revolves around a time bubble. That could just be an oversight on their part or perhaps the npc truly is mistaken. But if it has been 5 years alisaie and alphinaud would’ve had their growth spurt by now lol.

Apparently someone went through the effort of cataloguing the known timeline of FFXIV—it lists the Bozja incident as having taken place in the year 1562, while the events of 1.0 take place in the year 1572 and 2.0 begins five years after that. Note that the timeline given doesn't delineate any advancement through the years after that, however. Because of that, I'm inclined to believe that Baj's line is either an error or a retcon, placing the date of the Bozja incident further back in the timeline. I'd need to see other evidence corroborating this to believe otherwise.

For example, Cid is 34 at the start of A Realm Reborn (2.0), and naturally would've been 29 during 1.0. If five years had passed since the beginning of ARR, then Cid would naturally be 39 now instead. This would work out to Cid being 14 or 19 depending on if the comment was a retcon, an error, or evidence of time passing.

Is Cid's age ever mentioned during the Bozja content? 'cause I can't remember if it has.

EDIT: https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki...y_XIV_timeline The aforementioned timeline. Notably, it lists Yda Hext's death in the year 1572, and from what I recall she's said to have died six years ago when this is actually brought up in the story. So unless the events of Stormblood+Shadowbringers took four whole years, Baj's comment may just be an error.

I wouldn't put any stock in fan-made timelines considering that the writers themselves have contradicted themselves over and over. Until someone from the dev team specifically says what year it is now, it's best to go along with what Koji said and that we're in a time bubble.

If 5 years had passed since ARR, then the twins would be 21 now, which doesn't make any sense considering there are fully grown adult elezen who are 21 according to the lore book. It's easier to assume that the writers for Bozja made a mistake or the character over-generalized than to say that the whole story has progressed a lot further than anything else would suggest.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

I wouldn't put any stock in fan-made timelines considering that the writers themselves have contradicted themselves over and over. Until someone from the dev team specifically says what year it is now, it's best to go along with what Koji said and that we're in a time bubble.

If 5 years had passed since ARR, then the twins would be 21 now, which doesn't make any sense considering there are fully grown adult elezen who are 21 according to the lore book. It's easier to assume that the writers for Bozja made a mistake or the character over-generalized than to say that the whole story has progressed a lot further than anything else would suggest.

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Want to know what wouldn't make sense right now with a time bubble? That every expansion up until now was done in a single year. THAT is far worse of a nonsensical logic, and I question the sanity of anybody, ANYBODY who believes such rubbish. No, the fanmade timelines make more sense.

it's still happening in that time bubble however. Encyclopedia Eorzea Volume HAS the official time line in it minus some varying Retcons which make things happen at an earlier date than was previously said to keep everything in the time bubble year for ARR at 1577 some of this is on page 52 of EE V1. Also when when you start up a new game plus for StormBlood it states 25 years go for when DOMA was invaded by Garlemald. Which corresponds to when Doma was invaded and taken over in EE V1. If I had the book with me currently (at work) I would give you the exact page number and the exact year that it happened. So far there has only be minor retcons for the year things happen in but the never change the date for the time bubble that we are currently in. Again which is 1577 and the twins are 16 which, if memory serves me correctly, Alphinaud still states that he's that age when he's talking to Arenvald.


Also another Mention of the time and it still being in 1577 is when we are helping you know who with a gundam and the Elezen from Ala Mhigo reminds us that 20 years ago Ala Mhigo fell, again falling in line with not only when it fell as well as when Ascillia's (Minfillia's) own father fell to the Gobbue 10 years prior to the start of 1.0 and the fall of Dalamud

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Want to know what wouldn't make sense right now with a time bubble? That every expansion up until now was done in a single year. THAT is far worse of a nonsensical logic, and I question the sanity of anybody, ANYBODY who believes such rubbish. No, the fanmade timelines make more sense.

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That's the thing though. You're not supposed to think about it. This game was built more around "lot of cool stuff happening" that the writers figure out will happen when it's time to write another expansion. They've already established that there will be no time progression in interviews so that new players aren't left behind. I don't agree with that choice of style but it is what it is.

You can sit there and headcanon as much as you want or fight RPers on the "correct" timeline of events but it doesn't matter if the writers don't care and and just shrug at or dismiss questions regarding the timeline.

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Originally Posted by Novae

Because he's a downgraded version of the Exarch. Dude went from a hundred + years old Crystarium leader to a shy 16 yo WoL fanboi. It makes no sense.

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For the record, he's 24.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Because they explicitly state multiple times throughout the story, the farther he is from the tower, the weaker he gets. [...] So when he’s taken to the bottom of the ocean, the farthest he’s ever been, while also having been shot, really he should be the weakest he’s ever been. Yet he’s somehow able to summon 7 wol for the hades fight, despite not even being able to do that while under the full power of the crystal tower, he failed 4-5 times and that was just to get us, one person. Meanwhile he’s able to replicate it 7 times while being the farthest from the tower he’s ever been. If they had at least had him sacrifice himself to do it that would make a bit more sense than what we got.

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I don't see why that is a plot hole, so much as an indication of how much power he can draw for a final desperate attempt versus how much he usually dares to use. He no longer needs to reserve his strength for the future.

From what we saw in 5.3, it may well have cost him another bout of crystallisation that we couldn't see then.

Also it took him several tries to get the summoning process right, but he called you in the end. That means he knows how to do it properly now. And there's a degree of bending story logic for the sake of gameplay – he wouldn't have summoned people if this was a movie and you weren't about to go into a gameplay trial with seven random people out of nowhere.

If that's going to spoil the whole story for you, then you're looking for reasons to be spoiled and unhappy about it.

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Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch

And I really don't like that they played up the all but romantic angle with him, to the point where he was willing to abandon his own granddaughter just to go gallivanting around the Source with us—that was even before Elidibus took the choice out of his hands. But most of all, I don't like how little the original G'raha Tia's existence was taken into account in the process. To me, it feels less like a fusion between their two souls and more like the Exarch has erased his past self and taken over his body.

I don't necessarily want him to die—and I doubt I'd be satisfied if he did because I dislike him as much as I do. I would much rather have had the original G'raha, awakened from the tower with no memory of the events on the First and in the future, than whatever he currently is.

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I don't feel like the "wilfully abandoning Lyna" thing is as dramatic as you're making out. To some extent, yes he was planning on leaving his life as the Exarch to return to the Source. But if it weren't for Elidibus forcing things, it would have been a far calmer, measured farewell – and in any case it seems to come back to him willingly risking his own life to make sure the process is safe for the others to use.

I do agree that I would have preferred to see the Exarch truly die, and young G'raha kept as a separate person, and I do really dislike that the Exarch seems to have overwritten him.

Though, given it's happened and we have to go with it, my very headcanony take to justify it all is that they didn't quite merge but are sort of simultaneously in control of the same body, whether aware of it or not, and most of the time they just think the same way but if they disagree then whoever feels stronger about a thing ends up acting on it.

I'm not sure if I'm explaining it well. I need to fanfic this sometime. Still, it works enough for me.

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Originally Posted by Rinhi

his only wish was for us to carry his crystal with us on our adventures so that we'd always have him close, but of course we had to fuse his soul with source graha's

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I'm not sure where you're getting that impression from. It was already established as the plan that the Exarch would be a "test case" for the soul vessel because he had a body back in the Source so the transfer process could be tested. (Again overlooking the fact that the soul in that body might be regarded as a separate person with a choice in the matter, but I think the whole thing just shows that the writer(s) didn't see it as an issue.)

Of course we kind of stuffed up the test case thing by waking the other Scions up first, but it was still explicitly the intent.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

For the record, he's 24.




I don't see why that is a plot hole, so much as an indication of how much power he can draw for a final desperate attempt versus how much he usually dares to use. He no longer needs to reserve his strength for the future.

From what we saw in 5.3, it may well have cost him another bout of crystallisation that we couldn't see then.

Also it took him several tries to get the summoning process right, but he called you in the end. That means he knows how to do it properly now. And there's a degree of bending story logic for the sake of gameplay – he wouldn't have summoned people if this was a movie and you weren't about to go into a gameplay trial with seven random people out of nowhere.

If that's going to spoil the whole story for you, then you're looking for reasons to be spoiled and unhappy about it.

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I’d rather you not try and assume that i’m “looking for reasons to be spoiled and unhappy about it.” You can make all the excuses you want. Fact of the matter is it 100% clashes with the build up they did throughout the entire story, showing how weak he gets from the tower and how far he is. He was away from the tower for, if i’m being generous, a day. This was after already almost collapsing in kholusia. He was then dragged the farthest he’s ever been from his power source. He called us in the end yes, but again, that was while under the full power of the tower. He replicates that 7 times at the end when he really shouldn’t have even been able to do it once. The fact they don’t even explain it proves it just makes no sense and is absolutely a plot hole. Again, a final desperate attempt would make sense if it was him using his life energy or something to do it. But he does it with no consequence and as a clash against the own plot threads they built up. I wouldn’t care as much, if it wasn’t something they built up and mentioned numerous times in the story, as if it would eventually lead to something. But they did nothing with it and instead went against those very points they made. It’s a plot hole, end of discussion. I’m not looking for things to be unhappy about. I’m pointing out poor writing which i know is taboo around here. Pointing out things the story does wrong because ShB is just so amazing.

To be fair, if aether is anything like MP, and it's something with, for lack of a better word, inconsistent volume [something very common in anime tropes], nothing says he couldn't recharge at least a bit of his energy while 'resting" in isolation and used all that he had left in that last fight. The issue wouldn't have been him doing all that, but rather, showing no lasting effects of doing so, if not being on a full on comma until idk, 5.1 - Plot armor isn't necessarily the same as plot hole

That said, I'm just saying this as what ifs so they can be taken with a grain of salt.

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Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch

I do hate to keep going on about this—I'd much rather talk about things I like. Like existential horror, dragons, primals, voidsent, and basically everything except G'raha. But since it was asked...

I don't like that the Exarch's death was written to overshadow Elidibus's. I don't like that his death was also played up as such a bittersweet tragedy when it was plainly obvious they weren't really going to kill him. And I really don't like that they played up the all but romantic angle with him, to the point where he was willing to abandon his own granddaughter just to go gallivanting around the Source with us—that was even before Elidibus took the choice out of his hands. But most of all, I don't like how little the original G'raha Tia's existence was taken into account in the process. To me, it feels less like a fusion between their two souls and more like the Exarch has erased his past self and taken over his body.

I don't necessarily want him to die—and I doubt I'd be satisfied if he did because I dislike him as much as I do. I would much rather have had the original G'raha, awakened from the tower with no memory of the events on the First and in the future, than whatever he currently is. But since that's never happening, I'd settle for him getting the Gaius treatment. Put him into some side content that ends with him settling into his new lot in life, far away from the rest of the story. And he if does have to remain relevant until then, don't make the story revolve around him as much as Shadowbringers did. Let him be just another Scion, no more important or special than the rest.

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Well put, and agreed.

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Originally Posted by TeraRamis

Yep. We never lose - not, at least, on a strategic level. Final Fantasy used to take risks - in FFVI, we were defeated; we killed Kefka, but it was heavily implied that millions perished, and the world was irrevocably altered. We won, but we lost... and our victory couldn't reverse what had occured on our watch: burned cities, continents sundered, and magic (and a race of ancient magical beings) snuffed out. We failed, and others paid. It made the payoff at the end as much about revenge as rejoicing - it was a hollow victory, and because of that, it felt real.

I'm still waiting for FFXIV to hand us a situation like that - where the WoL comes up short, and there is no easy recovery. Something tells me that I'll be left disappointed. This story is just so nonchalant when it comes to perils and penalties. We simply do not experience anything more significant than minor setbacks.

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It's telling that they couldn't even allow that for the alternate timeline, IMO. If any antagonist thus far should've been able to inflict such a fate, it should have been either of Emet-Selch or Elidibus. Now they didn't decide to go that route with the former, because he had an emotional connection to the protagonist's ancient persona, so there was ample potential to utilise the latter and his connection to Zodiark for such a thing.

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Originally Posted by Scryar

It's honestly difficult to take the empire or the ascians seriously anymore. All they are doing is getting defeated by the WoL/Scions/Eorzia. It's ridiculous how all city states still have the same leaders, none of them ever being in real danger, while the Garleans lost one legatus after another and their emperor. No even to mention that we killed all three unsundered Ascians while the Scions have huge plot armor.
I don't have much hope anything will change in Endwalker. Anything other than a glorious victory against Zenos and Zodiark with minimal loses for the WoL and his team of goody good guys would surprise me.

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It's become stale and predictable. Which I hope 6.0 won't be, but I don't have particularly high hopes in that regard.

It's a pretty typical anime/video game trope for a heroic character to have that last desperate surge of strength despite them being at death's door seconds before. It's also a well-established fact in this game that a strong enough emotion or desire can generate power. And given that the game is, despite touching on darker themes, overall a heroic fantasy story, I don't really feel like it stands out that much.

I do wish they'd actually shown the scene of the Exarch merging with the younger G'raha. If they'd actually had some dialogue, maybe come to an understanding, made any effort to make it work, it might've helped. But with 5.3 running long already, I guess they decided that had to hit the chopping block.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

It's become stale and predictable. Which I hope 6.0 won't be, but I don't have particularly high hopes in that regard.

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Likewise.

The writers would do well to remember that there is no small amount of Ascian and Garlean fans out there who have been waiting years for a satisfying conclusion to one or both story arcs. I certainly wouldn't bother following this game's story based on the Scions or City State leaders alone. With the exception of Hien, I find them to be rather bland and disposable.

One also has to wonder why, in a fantasy setting, so many characters end up being forced to adhere to modern day real world takes on morality instead of something with a bit more depth and grit. I find myself rolling my eyes every time a 'problem' arises for the protagonists - especially since the game wastes a lot of time showing them sitting around a table fretting over the latest issue only to just overcome it anyway by throwing the Warrior of Light at it.

Worse yet, the characters who do not have the plot convenience of the Warrior of Light to lean upon are then forced to rely on more questionable methods as a consequence and are then dragged through the coals for daring to not just roll over and die.

It makes for a very childish story and I do hope that 6.0 proves to be bolder. With any luck, the recent influx of WoW players who are used to consequences will balance out the voices calling for nothing bad to ever happen to any of the supposed 'good guys' ever.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

WoW players who are used to consequences

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This is a joke, right?

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Originally Posted by Theodric

WoW players who are used to consequences

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Eh... Elaborate?

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

This is a joke, right?

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Why would it be? I'll be the first to admit that WoW often went in the opposite direction and had a little too much destruction and death but it was hardly lacking in consequences and leadership positions were always at risk of changing to prevent stagnation, entire settlements were wiped off of the map and even beloved lore characters were at risk of being slain to prove that the latest big bad was, in fact, a major threat.

Equally, there's also ESO - which also serves as a competitor to FFXIV and also embraces consequences fairly often. I've found many side quests to be rather poignant and bittersweet in that game due to even some of the 'good' choices resulting in negative consequences.