The 'unwritten rule' for non-tank pulls in dungeons

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Originally Posted by Awha

Tanks are not special, face it reality is if you are doing dungeon content and not doing large pulls as a tank you are simply a gimp dps at that point.

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Then bring no tanks and all dps into your roulettes, or roll a tank yourself.

You missed the part where the tank is expected to catch every stray mob you pull and survive them, regardless of experience, gear or whether their cd's are up. Why would anyone play a gimp dps that is expected to herd chaos and play "chase the mob" while the real dps get to run around the dungeon like hyperactive 3 year olds waving their big numbers with zero blame if they die. That's why dps have a queue and tanks are instant.

I don't think dps realize that by making tanking a miserable job to play, they've added a 5-30 minute queue to their instances to save 2 minutes. That's not what I'd call intelligent...

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Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

...is there really an 'unwritten rule' that only tanks pull?...

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You can do a statistic: go and pull for the tank, and do this for 100 duties. Then go back here and tell us how many times people were happy of your doing.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

You absolutely blame the tank if they don't flash or Overpower.

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Sure if the tank pulled all the mobs them selfs.

Its obvious you've never played a tank in any content because it sure as hell isnt bash my face into my keyboard push one button like you think lol.

And before you go and call me a bad tank i do full pulls but if i even once see crap isnt dying fast enough of my healer sucks that's the end of that you now get 1 too 2 groups only now.

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Originally Posted by kazzel120

Sure if the tank pulled all the mobs them selfs.

Its obvious you've never played a tank in any content because it sure as hell isnt bash my face into my keyboard push one button like you think lol.

And before you go and call me a bad tank i do full pulls but if i even once see crap isnt dying fast enough of my healer sucks that's the end of that you now get 1 too 2 groups only now.

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I’ve been a tank main since forever. He’s absolutely right. If someone else pulls mobs for me, it’s my job to get them. It’s also indication I’m going too slow.

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Originally Posted by kazzel120

Sure if the tank pulled all the mobs them selfs.

Its obvious you've never played a tank in any content because it sure as hell isnt bash my face into my keyboard push one button like you think lol.

And before you go and call me a bad tank i do full pulls but if i even once see crap isnt dying fast enough of my healer sucks that's the end of that you now get 1 too 2 groups only now.

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... it isn't? I tank pretty regularly and it's not exactly complicated to spam Overpower/Abyssal/Decimate/Quietis while popping a CD as needed.

You could also tell them to AoE. Even if they don't, it's still better to pull at least six mobs because tank AoEs are incredibly strong. Besides, if the healer isn't DPSing, well, you're just giving them something to do instead going AFK.

As tank I do whatever is comfortable, usually doing a medium size pull the first time to see how people do (which is \'usually\' wall to gate). If we're good then its touch all things and if not then we do smaller groups, sometimes the healer kept everyone up great but I noticed no aoe from the team so I might go smaller even though we're fine in the heals (or sometimes they use aoe but stand in all the orange and its 8,000 close calls, so I go smaller anyway).


Imo speed is less important than docking the ship gently, but we're going to try go fast first unless exceptions apply (sometimes it's my fault "haven't played dark knight in years... let me get comfy first please"). I use this thought process for tank stance too, if we're going stellar I'll switch but if its chaos then I dont care what is optimal dps it's about getting to the end without everything on fire lol.


In terms of others pulling for me if its chaos I'll tell them to knock it off, if something adds the healer I appreciate them or dd taking it to me. If they just pull because it's fun I only care if there are other factors like large packs with healer regens going and it's not a simple enmity ranged attack grab or not. Basically make my job hard I dont like it, bring stuff to me and we're doing well then okay thanks for the delivery lol.

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Originally Posted by Awha

I am sorry but for normal mode content tanks do not inherently have more responsibility over dps or healers. One could even argue that if a tank is doing single pulls it would be quicker to replace the tank with a dps.

Tanks are not special, face it reality is if you are doing dungeon content and not doing large pulls as a tank you are simply a gimp dps at that point.

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Everyone's important, but you're kidding yourself if you seriously think a dps can out tank a tank even in normal dungeons. Tanks are there for a reason. The holy trinity is there for a reason. Your mentality is why we have so few tanks in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

I’ve been a tank main since forever. He’s absolutely right. If someone else pulls mobs for me, it’s my job to get them. It’s also indication I’m going too slow.

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And again i do full pulls but if the healer and dps suck i am not doing full pulls its that simple.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Then bring no tanks and all dps into your roulettes, or roll a tank yourself.

You missed the part where the tank is expected to catch every stray mob you pull and survive them, regardless of experience, gear or whether their cd's are up. Why would anyone play a gimp dps that is expected to herd chaos and play "chase the mob" while the real dps get to run around the dungeon like hyperactive 3 year olds waving their big numbers with zero blame if they die. That's why dps have a queue and tanks are instant.

I don't think dps realize that by making tanking a miserable job to play, they've added a 5-30 minute queue to their instances to save 2 minutes. That's not what I'd call intelligent...

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I am a tank main, and I know for a fact when it comes to regular dungeon content when it comes to getting aggro it does not require any extra effort on my part. Dps and healers do not make tanking miserable but this self importance that tanks within this community seem to have. I mean as a tank during single pulls a I do not even have to pop any CDs.

Personally as a tank I simply do not understand why tanks feel they are the life blood of the group.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

... it isn't? I tank pretty regularly and it's not exactly complicated to spam Overpower/Abyssal/Decimate/Quietis while popping a CD as needed.

You could also tell them to AoE. Even if they don't, it's still better to pull at least six mobs because tank AoEs are incredibly strong. Besides, if the healer isn't DPSing, well, you're just giving them something to do instead going AFK.

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He said its hit 1 button in his earlier posts and its not hit 1 buttons jesus. I have been a tank main since 3.0.

Its also not hard to be an even half ass dps yet you see more bad dps then tanks and healers and honestly dps are easy to play too.

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Originally Posted by SoulEchelon

Everyone's important, but you're kidding yourself if you seriously think a dps can out tank a tank even in normal dungeons. Tanks are there for a reason. The holy trinity is there for a reason. Your mentality is why we have so few tanks in the first place.

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A DPS can indeed tank in normal content, it just requires a bit more healing. A DPS may not be able to out-tank a tank, but they can indeed be a replacement.

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Originally Posted by SoulEchelon

Everyone's important, but you're kidding yourself if you seriously think a dps can out tank a tank even in normal dungeons. Tanks are there for a reason. The holy trinity is there for a reason. Your mentality is why we have so few tanks in the first place.

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Do not get me wrong it would require extra healing but a dps or a healer can tank single pulls in this game, and I have seen healers tank bosses it is possible. Sure it would be easier with a tank, but they are by no means required to clear most dungeon content if we are talking single pulls.

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Originally Posted by Hash_Browns

A DPS can indeed tank in normal content, it just requires a bit more healing. A DPS may not be able to out-tank a tank, but they can indeed be a replacement.

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Ok go test your dps can indeed tank normal dungeons as well as a tank with a full pull and watch said dps die before the healer can get 1 heal off.

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Originally Posted by kazzel120

Ok go test your dps can indeed tank normal dungeons as well as a tank with a full pull and watch said dps die before the healer can get 1 heal off.

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Define full pull? Cause I never said a dps can tank large packs of mobs, but a single pull yeah I can do it on a dps and I have healed dps doing it before after we went on ahead because the tank went afk. As a healer sure I had I heal more but it was not horrible.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Do not get me wrong it would require extra healing but a dps or a healer can tank single pulls in this game, and I have seen healers tank bosses it is possible. Sure it would be easier with a tank, but they are by no means required to clear most dungeon content if we are talking single pulls.

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This entire thread started because a lot of tanks dont do full pulls. And people saying how unimportant tanks are in normal content.

Yet you see more dps bitch about bad queue times because no one tanks hmm i wonder why. Again if a tank isn't comfortable doing full pulls don't think its ok to pull extra mobs that's all.

Personally I do full pulls unless the healer and/or dps suck its its slower thats all.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Do not get me wrong it would require extra healing but a dps or a healer can tank single pulls in this game, and I have seen healers tank bosses it is possible. Sure it would be easier with a tank, but they are by no means required to clear most dungeon content if we are talking single pulls.

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Originally Posted by Hash_Browns

A DPS can indeed tank in normal content, it just requires a bit more healing. A DPS may not be able to out-tank a tank, but they can indeed be a replacement.

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Alright, go ahead and hop into Shinryu Normal with just DPS tanking. See how long it takes for them to collapse even with two healers using up every ounce of MP they have healing them while also trying to heal the rest of the group. Post a video of it. I'll bring the popcorn.

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Originally Posted by kazzel120

He said its hit 1 button in his earlier posts and its not hit 1 buttons jesus. I have been a tank main since 3.0.

Its also not hard to be an even half ass dps yet you see more bad dps then tanks and healers and honestly dps are easy to play too.

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DPS are easiest class to play, yet people like him saying that tanks are super easy.
Well, they are super easy if someone is a super bad tank and does not play them effectively. xD

Playing a tank is to pull, set peace, controlling mobs movement and position, mitigate incoming damage by rotating many different cooldowns (making things easier to heal allows healers to do massive aoe damage which is close to dps levels), do high DPS (which on DRK is not easy because of mana), dodge AOEs or interupt mobs casting spells. Not only that but countering tank busters on the boss fights and position boss in the way that will be most efficient for team, and there are many many boses in this game which if positioned righly will make things much easier and safe. This is much more than afk follow tank and do rotation properly on DPS, hence why i switched to tank and never came back to DPS since it is more interesting and engaging to play.

A good tank has many times bigger impact on the run than any DPS does.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Define full pull? Cause I never said a dps can tank large packs of mobs, but a single pull yeah I can do it on a dps and I have healed dps doing it before after we went on ahead because the tank went afk. As a healer sure I had I heal more but it was not horrible.

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Standard Wall to wall

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Originally Posted by SoulEchelon

Alright, go ahead and hop into Shinryu Normal with just DPS tanking. See how long it takes for them to collapse even with two healers using up every ounce of MP they have healing them while also trying to heal the rest of the group. Post a video of it. I'll bring the popcorn.

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Isn't this thread about dungeons? Last I checked that was a primaral. Are you telling me if a tank goes afk or leaves a dungeon your group simply waits around for a new tank? Normally what I do is just pull one group at a time while the group waits for a replacement. I do not think I ever said or implied that a dps can tank primals or raids.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Isn't this thread about dungeons? Last I checked that was a primaral. Are you telling me if a tank goes afk or leaves a dungeon your group simply waits around for a new tank? Normally what I do is just pull one group at a time while the group waits for a replacement. I do not think I ever said or implied that a dps can tank primals or raids.

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Normal content is what they said so that would include all normal modes.

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Originally Posted by SoulEchelon

Alright, go ahead and hop into Shinryu Normal with just DPS tanking. See how long it takes for them to collapse even with two healers using up every ounce of MP they have healing them while also trying to heal the rest of the group. Post a video of it. I'll bring the popcorn.

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I did tank half of the first phase as a DPS once after both tanks died to Tidal Wave and neither wanted to provoke back until they lost the Near Death debuff. But this is also almost a hundred item levels past the intended point, so.....

Now, try it with Tsukuyomi, you'll get slaughtered.

I have done all three roles, I am of the mindset that a group should always pull based on what the party is capable of and not what one or two people are capable of. 1. A healer is not struggling to heal. 2. Dps are killing mobs in a timely manner. 3. Tank is not getting their face smashed in and is holding solid enimity on all targets. These are the 3 signs of a good solid group if a group is failing at any of these points or all three there is a problem.

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Originally Posted by SoulEchelon

Alright, go ahead and hop into Shinryu Normal with just DPS tanking. See how long it takes for them to collapse even with two healers using up every ounce of MP they have healing them while also trying to heal the rest of the group. Post a video of it. I'll bring the popcorn.

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This thread is about dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Isn't this thread about dungeons? Last I checked that was a primaral. Are you telling me if a tank goes afk or leaves a dungeon your group simply waits around for a new tank? Normally what I do is just pull one group at a time while the group waits for a replacement.

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You stated ANY normal content. Shinryu Normal is normal content. In fact, it's story content. But sure I'll let you backpedal. The Stone Vigil? Aurum Vale? Keeper of the Lake? The Vault? Baelsar's Wall? Shisui of the Violet Tides? Ala Mhigo? Ooh, The Burn would be a GREAT one for dps tanking.

Go. Do them. Post a video. Make sure to go all the way through, including all the bosses. Don't wuss out and use Titan Egi. That's a tank, and according to you - you don't need them. Now if by some insane chance you actually are able to do it, tell us how long it took and how many extremely carefully planned battles you had to do, as well as every single time a tank buster bashed your face in and wiped your party.

No, you're not going to do that because you're wrong. A tank is needed just like every other part of the holy trinity. A dps can tank a few mods with a good healer. They cannot tank a whole entire dungeon - bosses and all.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Define full pull? Cause I never said a dps can tank large packs of mobs, but a single pull yeah I can do it on a dps and I have healed dps doing it before after we went on ahead because the tank went afk. As a healer sure I had I heal more but it was not horrible.

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Its not so.much about the wall to wall pull but how a dps can tank as well as any tank when in fact can they takes hits? sure but can they take them as well as a tank? No

Saying that tanks are the most unimportant roll is an outright lie. If you want faster dungeon runs a tank in fact will make it faster if they don't suck.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

they really dont. idk where this misconception came from that all roulettes match you with first timers above all else but not even mentor roulette does that.

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That's the purpose of roulettes; to help people new to content get a party to clear it with.

• New player queues for Sastasha. It eventually pulls people who are queued to leveling and mentor roulettes.
• They queue for Steps of Faith, it pulls people queued to trial and mentor roulettes to help them clear it.

On rare occasions, people might queue directly for a dungeon when it's not their first time to level alt jobs or farm something. If they are leveling an alt job they probably aren't very good with that job yet.

And that is why people complain of the skill level in dungeons. Roulettes match you with probably-low-skill, probably-first-timers queueing directly for content, by design. If you don't want to be matched with low-skill players then it's illogical to do roulettes without a premade.

The roulette you're most likely to not find first timers in as often after the first few weeks of a patch is expert roulette, but even then you will sometimes.

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Originally Posted by SoulEchelon

You stated ANY normal content. Shinryu Normal is normal content. In fact, it's story content. But sure I'll let you backpedal. The Stone Vigil? Aurum Vale? Keeper of the Lake? The Vault? Baelsar's Wall? Shisui of the Violet Tides? Ala Mhigo? Ooh, The Burn would be a GREAT one for dps tanking.

Go. Do them. Post a video. Make sure to go all the way through, including all the bosses. Don't wuss out and use Titan Egi. That's a tank, and according to you - you don't need them. Now if by some insane chance you actually are able to do it, tell us how long it took and how many extremely carefully planned battles you had to do, as well as every single time a tank buster bashed your face in and wiped your party.

No, you're not going to do that because you're wrong. A tank is needed just like every other part of the holy trinity. A dps can tank a few mods with a good healer. They cannot tank a whole entire dungeon - bosses and all.

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I do not know how to capture video content, but a dps or healer can tank a dungeon I am sure many healers have found themselves in situations were the tank is simply afk deadweight and they had aggro for the entire run. Sure it requires extra healing but it is not impossible.

Also sorry given the thread was about dungeons I figured it was implied that is the content we would be referring to. I do not think I ever said it would be quicker just that a tank doing single pulls is a gimped dps, and one could argue that it would be quicker to just bring a 3rd dps.

I tank and as in have said before doing single pulls makes me feels useless I mean during single pulls you do not even need to use cooldowns all that much. One can sit in tank stance for days.

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Originally Posted by Awha

I do not know how to capture video content, but a dps or healer can tank a dungeon I am sure many healers have found themselves in situations were the tank is simply afk deadweight and they had aggro for the entire run. Sure it requires extra healing but it is not impossible.

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Found myself in more then one situation where the tank left/disconnected during the dungeon, and a DPS became a tank until the tank either returned or we got a new one.

Tanking as a DPS isn't hard in leveling dungeons at all.

If a tank can't pull more then a few packs of mobs, then they might as well be a DPS.

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Originally Posted by kazzel120

Its not so.much about the wall to wall pull but how a dps can tank as well as any tank when in fact can they takes hits? sure but can they take them as well as a tank? No

Saying that tanks are the most unimportant roll is an outright lie. If you want faster dungeon runs a tank in fact will make it faster if they don't suck.

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For large pulls yeah a tank is required but for single pulls a tank is not absolutely needed, sure without a tank it will require extra healing but as a tank I honestly feel next to useless only doing single pulls.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

That's the purpose of roulettes; to help people new to content get a party to clear it with.

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Roulettes do not exist to help new players exclusively, but they simply do so by design.

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Originally Posted by Awha

I do not know how to capture video content, but a dps or healer can tank a dungeon I am sure many healers have found themselves in situations were the tank is simply afk deadweight and they had aggro for the entire run. Sure it requires extra healing but it is not impossible.

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Heh. Yep, I thought so. You're a broken record and you can't even back yourself up. What a waste of time talking to you.


I'll reiterate for everyone else and get back on topic: Every single role is important. ALL of them. DPS, Healer, and Tank. We all depend on each other, and if one isn't pulling their weight, we all suffer. DPS? The run goes slower and taxes the healer and tank. Healer? The run goes slower and taxes the tank and dps. Tank? The run goes slower and taxes the healer and dps. The name of the game is cooperation. Tank is supposed to aggro. Let them aggro. DPS is supposed to do damage. Let them damage. Healer is supposed to heal. Let them heal. When everyone works together we all benefit. Running in front of the tank and grabbing aggro is not working together. If you're impatient or feel you can go faster, ask first. If the tank refuses, leave or deal with it. It's the same as the tank asking dps to do more aoes. If they refuse, either he/she should leave or deal with it. Breaking the mold without warning just leads to frustration and potential loss of time.

Funny thing is - this is all coming from a DPS main. Don't be dick. Follow the tank's lead and let them get punched while you do the punching. That's what they're there for.

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Originally Posted by SoulEchelon

Heh. Yep, I thought so. You're a broken record and you can't even back yourself up. What a waste of time talking to you.


I'll reiterate for everyone else and get back on topic: Every single role is important. ALL of them. DPS, Healer, and Tank. We all depend on each other, and if one isn't pulling their weight, we all suffer. DPS? The run goes slower and taxes the healer and tank. Healer? The run goes slower and taxes the tank and dps. Tank? The run goes slower and taxes the healer and dps. The name of the game is cooperation. Tank is supposed to aggro. Let them aggro. DPS is supposed to do damage. Let them damage. Healer is supposed to heal. Let them heal. When everyone works together we all benefit. Running in front of the tank and grabbing aggro is not working together. If you're impatient or feel you can go faster, ask first. If the tank refuses, leave or deal with it. It's the same as the tank asking dps to do more aoes. If they refuse, either he/she should leave or deal with it. Breaking the mold without warning just leads to frustration and potential loss of time.

Funny thing is - this is all coming from a DPS main. Don't be dick. Follow the tank's lead and let them get punched while you do the punching. That's what they're there for.

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I'm sorry, but if a tank can't pull their weight in normal dungeons, I'm not going to leave - I'm going to remove the tank.

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Originally Posted by kazzel120

And again i do full pulls but if the healer and dps suck i am not doing full pulls its that simple.

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OK sounds good.

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Originally Posted by Hash_Browns

Tanking as a DPS isn't hard in leveling dungeons at all.

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Depends which leveling dungeon we're talking about. Some are really easy, but some are Aurum Vale where despite the best intentions the party will sometimes accidentally pull half the first room and get obliterated ... even with a sturdy tank and healer :P

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Originally Posted by Hash_Browns

I'm sorry, but if a tank can't pull their weight in normal dungeons, I'm not going to leave - I'm going to remove the tank.

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If they are being detrimental to the group's progress (not being able beat a boss due to failed mechanics or a lack of tanking, wiping the group repeatedly on groups of trash due to a lack of skill or possible trolling, etc) a kick is justified because the group literally can't progress because of the individual. If they are simply being slow...not really able to kick them without risking punishment from a GM. That leaves 2 possibilities, as the person you replied to already mentioned: leave or deal with it.

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Originally Posted by Hash_Browns

if a tank can't pull their weight in normal dungeons

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I guess I'll change to a lalafell if I ever tank. :D

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Originally Posted by Hash_Browns

I'm sorry, but if a tank can't pull their weight in normal dungeons, I'm not going to leave - I'm going to remove the tank.

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Then good luck with the tank queue. It's a rare proc, and this current negative mentality towards tanks is the exact reason why.

Edit: I would instead propose working with the tank if by chance (as Vahlnir stated above) they're having trouble with the mechanics of a dungeon. That probably means they're either new to the dungeon or a new tank. Being instantly negative and demanding them to be kicked isn't motivation. It's detrimental, and could potentially lead to one less tank and quite possibly, one less player. We should be working together, not hurting each other. But hey - gotta get through that dungeon in 10 minutes flat or everyone but you sucks and deserves to be banned from ever playing with you again, right?

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Originally Posted by SoulEchelon

Then good luck with the tank queue. It's a rare proc, and this current negative mentality towards tanks is the exact reason why.

Edit: I would instead propose working with the tank if by chance (as Vahlnir stated above) they're having trouble with the mechanics of a dungeon. That probably means they're either new to the dungeon or a new tank. Being instantly negative and demanding them to be kicked isn't motivation. It's detrimental, and could potentially lead to one less tank and quite possibly, one less player. We should be working together, not hurting each other. But hey - gotta get through that dungeon in 10 minutes flat or everyone but you sucks and deserves to be banned from ever playing with you again, right?

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I mean, yes the queues are great for me. So I have no problem with it being a rare(ish) role. :cool:

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Originally Posted by SoulEchelon

Edit: I would instead propose working with the tank if by chance (as Vahlnir stated above) they're having trouble with the mechanics of a dungeon. That probably means they're either new to the dungeon or a new tank. Being instantly negative and demanding them to be kicked isn't motivation. It's detrimental, and could potentially lead to one less tank and quite possibly, one less player. We should be working together, not hurting each other. But hey - gotta get through that dungeon in 10 minutes flat or everyone but you sucks and deserves to be banned from ever playing with you again, right?

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I probably should have clarified a bit, tbh. If they are new then yeah, people should probably be willing to help them understand the mechanics of bosses. No group should kick a tank on the first failed attempt, probably not the 3rd or 4th either. I'd say a kick is justified only in extreme cases (which I have encountered though exceedingly rare, like winning the lottery kind of rare) where the group is stuck on a boss, specifically the final boss, and the timer is actually dwindling away to the point that if a new tank isn't brought in, the dungeon will be a total bust. I've had to initiate a vote kick on 2 tanks in my years of playing, and they were both for that reason. I felt bad, really bad even, because every attempt to help them got us nowhere. But...there was also no sense in letting 3 other people fail the dungeon and get absolutely nothing for their time/trouble, so unfortunately they had to go.

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Originally Posted by SoulEchelon

Heh. Yep, I thought so. You're a broken record and you can't even back yourself up. What a waste of time talking to you.


I'll reiterate for everyone else and get back on topic: Every single role is important. ALL of them. DPS, Healer, and Tank. We all depend on each other, and if one isn't pulling their weight, we all suffer. DPS? The run goes slower and taxes the healer and tank. Healer? The run goes slower and taxes the tank and dps. Tank? The run goes slower and taxes the healer and dps. The name of the game is cooperation. Tank is supposed to aggro. Let them aggro. DPS is supposed to do damage. Let them damage. Healer is supposed to heal. Let them heal. When everyone works together we all benefit. Running in front of the tank and grabbing aggro is not working together. If you're impatient or feel you can go faster, ask first. If the tank refuses, leave or deal with it. It's the same as the tank asking dps to do more aoes. If they refuse, either he/she should leave or deal with it. Breaking the mold without warning just leads to frustration and potential loss of time.

Funny thing is - this is all coming from a DPS main. Don't be dick. Follow the tank's lead and let them get punched while you do the punching. That's what they're there for.

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Honestly do not know how to capture video content never really had a need to set up or learn how to do so. I am simply speaking from my experience and I mentioned in earlier posts as a tank my basic function is to grab aggro and hold it. And I also said tank role inherently does not have anymore importance then another role, and if push comes to shove a group can progress without a tank very rarely does a group ever crumples or votes to abandon the run because of the lack of tank. I personally have never ran into that situation while healing or dps. Sure it takes time to clear the content, but I never said a dps or healer is the optimal replacement for a tank. Nor did I say like it seems you think I did that large pulls are solely based off the tanks ability. Figured the general approved points were that everything is group dependent and success is a group effort. Was not sure I had to spell that out. Point remains if a dps or healer pull extra mobs for the healer as a tank all I have to do is use an aoe to get aggro. If the group wipes it is either because of me, healer, dps or all three. Though generally I have never really ran into an issue where dps or healers pulling for me has caused a group wipe.

In the end we just have different mindsets if a dps does not aoe I would remove them group for that, or if a healer is simply healing and not doing damage between heals then I would also start a vote to remove them. Granted, normally I tank, but I also have a discord group I can ask for filling a role. If they vote does not pass then either I adapt or leave depends on my mood. I will not force large pulls if I know mu group cannot handle it but nor would I simply sit back and do small pulls if I know the group can handle it. Sometimes I will stay if people are new or something. When I started to play FFXIV I told groups up front I was new and if they wanted to do large pulls I would try my best to keep up and if the pulled failed because of me I would simply leave on my own because I personally hate feeling like dead weight, and that is my issue with single pulls I feel useless, and or bored. I also rarely ever just sit around if someone goes afk I just go on ahead and pull one pack if I know I can handle it.

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Originally Posted by Hash_Browns

I mean, yes the queues are great for me. So I have no problem with it being a rare(ish) role. :cool:

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So you kick the tank and then realize no new tank will be coming any time soon. But that's okay. You're a healer. You can just leave and re-queue.

And also leave the poor two DPSes that will need to wait in queue for another 20+minutes because you had a beef with a slow tank.

There's a name for people like you. But I don't feel like getting reported for saying it. I'm just going to stop talking to you.