All Greed on Alliance loot

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

Oh, but you get to play your main to gear an alt - yeah, because that matters. Lol.

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Yes it matters to be able to play as any job I want anytime instead of being bound to a certain job.
I'm able to alternate jobs, sure, but only as long as they didnt get a drop. If I'm lucky and get DRG gear fast I'm still maybe stuck the whole next week on NIN and only NIN.
What really doesn't matter is "I want people to play as the role they want gear on just because, and I don't care that the system is unfair already with job based rolls.".

Someone said ilvl of Rabanastre is ilvl305. It matter to me that less people are inclined to use that low jobs to get an upgrade. Yay, a tank with 290 weapon and no experience, I'm so glad that he doesn't went in with his 354 DRG and made room for someone who actually can hold emnity.

As I said, I rather roll against ppl than just being screwed by game rng.
The outcome doesn't change for me, propbaly 3-6 runs a week to get my drop, with that many jobs I often greed already..
But higher ilvl and higher skill on average and being able to queue at most needed role is a good thing.

Same why ex primal greed farms are way smoother and better... instead of people wanting to replace their 310 weapon on their jobs they can't play, you actually get decent players sometimes.

With weekly lockouts and 6 drops per run, I will get my loot pretty fast now.

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Originally Posted by Ageofwar

If they are implementing this right off the bat on the 4.3 alliance raid it's a really bad idea

I'm already having a hard time getting caster gear for my main job I play without getting out looted by someone that only plays a caster job once in a blue moon

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If Eureka Pagos continues the relic gear upgrades then that will be a better place to gear up your main job considering the gear would have 5 materia slots and an upgraded item level. Perhaps the devs took into account this new gear source when planning the change to alliance raid loot, and gave the two types of content a different purpose (main vs alts) to keep both relevant.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

If Eureka Pagos continues the relic gear upgrades then that will be a better place to gear up your main job considering the gear would have 5 materia slots and an upgraded item level. Perhaps the devs took into account this new gear source when planning the change to alliance raid loot, and gave the two types of content a different purpose (main vs alts) to keep both relevant.

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I would say diffrently

if Eureka gear continue as the same level as Anemos it makes it a great place to gear up your alt jobs with the Tome gear on your main job (since tome gear is still at the moment a higher ilvl)

with Anemos once you get to the top level and done your first set, additional set are pretty easy to get

True endgame, now getting your gear for your main is gonna be the new savage of FFXIV.

Just no SE, who the hell in SE thought it was a good idea ?

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

Yes it matters to be able to play as any job I want anytime instead of being bound to a certain job.
I'm able to alternate jobs, sure, but only as long as they didnt get a drop. If I'm lucky and get DRG gear fast I'm still maybe stuck the whole next week on NIN and only NIN.
What really doesn't matter is "I want people to play as the role they want gear on just because, and I don't care that the system is unfair already with job based rolls.".

Someone said ilvl of Rabanastre is ilvl305. It matter to me that less people are inclined to use that low jobs to get an upgrade. Yay, a tank with 290 weapon and no experience, I'm so glad that he doesn't went in with his 354 DRG and made room for someone who actually can hold emnity.

As I said, I rather roll against ppl than just being screwed by game rng.
The outcome doesn't change for me, propbaly 3-6 runs a week to get my drop, with that many jobs I often greed already..
But higher ilvl and higher skill on average and being able to queue at most needed role is a good thing.

Same why ex primal greed farms are way smoother and better... instead of people wanting to replace their 310 weapon on their jobs they can't play, you actually get decent players sometimes.

With weekly lockouts and 6 drops per run, I will get my loot pretty fast now.

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You must be in very good shape to perform these mental gymnastics.

Lets assume the rate at which gear drops is 6 items per run. Let's go for the healer body piece. Right now there are 7 'classes' of gear (tank/heal/caster/ranged/nin/drg/mnksam) and 6 items that can drop per set (head/chest/hands/belt/legs/feet) so this means each run I have a 1/7 chance to have that item drop. This doesn't take into account how (right now) some coffers only drop some gear, I'm erring on the side of caution.

Now that means potentially 7 runs to see that healer chest drop. Right now I have to roll against 1 other person on it so there is a 50% chance I will get the item if it does drop. That's another potential 7 runs if I lose just to see that item again.

Now lets take this in a new direction - the new all greed system. Same 6 potential drops, same 7 armor 'classes' and same 6 armor slots. Now I can be rolling against anywhere from 1 to 7 other players on the 1/7 chance the item I want actually drops.

Let's not forget this is a system that is only going to further degenerate as time goes on. The first few weeks might be okay - people running it will likely be focused on gearing specific jobs with specific items rather than greeding everything because in the short term these items are still upgrades for them... how about a month or two down the line though?

People who have been capping Mendacity every week have multiple gear sets at or above the level dropped in the new raid, these players are grabbing for desynth fodder or glam. More people who don't care what they get means more people rolling on every item. Players just reaching this content who might actually get upgrades from it are now on even footing with every other person in their group who is rolling more or less just to not miss their lockout on something. This isn't even accounting for any items that might actually be in demand for glamor or the fashion report - best of luck on those.

I have healed and dpsed for many an undergeared tank in Rabanastre - know what's worse than a squishy tank? Having to run the whole damn raid again because some DRG with no casters leveled past 30 beat me to my RDM hat.

"But there is a lockout," you guys yell, "People won't greed blindly on things!!"

Really? Are you honestly telling me you think the majority of the playerbase who is still wiping to things like Ancient Flare and the stack markers in Hashmal is informed enough to know or care about a weekly lockout on gear? I had a RDM in a Rab run I did earlier with more health than me pulling 1,800 dps with no deaths. Some people are just not as invested in this game and that's fine but let's not act like their lack of knowledge and foresight isn't going to bite a lot of people in the ass with this new system. It's elementary school math.

I've never been more thankful to have a good group of friends to play this game with - it's going to mean partying up with 7 other competent players to run Ridoranna virtually every time so that we can make sure we're fair and considerate about our loot drops. I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking this way either, I could see this gear system forcing a lot of players to party with friends, making the pug market even more deficient than we've seen in Rab.

A whole host of problems await everyone upon the release of this system, the only limit to the number of them is how much time you have to look at it and poke more holes.

Thank god you don't have to play a week straight as NIN though. I'm sure that makes it all worth it.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

Thank god you don't have to play a week straight as NIN though. I'm sure that makes it all worth it.

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Thanks. In the end I take the advantages for me and be fine.

At least I don't need to pretend that 'everyone' has only disadvantages... there are ppl who get disadvantaged, some have it better or equal, overall it's more fair (same rng for everyone everytime), average ilvl/skill should be higher, less ppl playing a job just for rolls, faster queues.

I'm fine and probably thousand of other players (most of those wanting to play more different jobs than they have jobs they need gear for) as well and if there are statistics proving one or the other "more fair" the result would be the system we'll be getting.
I value it a lot higher to play what I want (5 runs with 5 different jobs), than to have to choose a job based on chances for loot.

With this system the amount of tanks queuing will stay roughly the same (the amount of ppl wanting to tank), with the old one it gets less tanks week by week (assuming ppl who need tann gear queue as tank right now and stop queuing after they got it -> less tanks per week).


I mean srsly... bringing up things like desynth (you can't desynth or turn in new 24-man gear for up to 6 months) proofs that people dont think before they complain.
Rabanastre is almost half a year old and you still can't do that.
And no, it can't be 7 who roll on every item, 7nppl rolling on an item can occur once in the whole run.
When I aim for something which drops at 1st and 4th boss, at the 4th boss I will never, never, ever have 7 competitors, unless 5 pieces dropped to the ground.

And if ppl roll blindly at everything even better. Every belt and bad gear then means one less person rolling on the good stuff.

It stays, i rather ask myself 'what do I want to play' than 'what do I need to gear'.

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Originally Posted by Beckett

There are lots of reasons why people might not have the ilevel to get into Alliance Raids on a particular job. Maybe they just hit 70 that day. Maybe they've been leveling a bunch of jobs and already spent all their Verity. Maybe they just don't play as much. Regardless, when the stated main purpose of Alliance Raids is supposed to be to gear up alts, but you're not able to gear up your alts with it, then the system has failed.

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And now you still might fail to gear your alts because more people can roll on stuff and you might not even get the gear that you need for your main either.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

Tank being hardest job? In 24-player raids? Are we talking about the same game? Very often you have the three tanks taking something like 5 minutes to pull anything, if they ever do pull. You see them not picking the adds all the time, and doing some e-peen contest on who will do more enmity on the boss. So please, don't try to tell me that tanking is hard and that it should reward you with guaranteed loot. That's nonsense. I main WAR btw.

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Still harder than DDs (I am saying this as a main DD). A DD can do barely any mechanic right, be death 90% of the content and barely do any DPS and they would still get a clear if the rest is good enough. Honestly for me the hardest job would be healer and they are now hurt with this change too..

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

And no, it can't be 7 who roll on every item, 7nppl rolling on an item can occur once in the whole run.
When I aim for something which drops at 1st and 4th boss, at the 4th boss I will never, never, ever have 7 competitors, unless 5 pieces dropped to the ground.

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Never ever is a bit bad because it can happen. There will be people that will roll on everything to just get something and there will be people that will only roll on something specific that they want. You never know which one of those is in your group and thus it can really happen that you are at the last boss and 6 other people roll on the same loot. The very loot that you might have gotten with one need roll might now get to someone that does not need it.

IMO the majority of the players probably dont have so many jobs leveled on 70 so hurting mains because someone leveled up all of their jobs and somehow want them all geared up too is just bad. (And lets not talk about those that want to have certain glamour items..even if you wanted a tank gear piece and you went in as a tank you might have months till you get it because it might just never drop..but at least if it drops you will get it..now you might just never get the item at all)

You also talk about statistics, yet your are the minority in this thread so can you really argue that most in the game would be fine with that?

In the end the old system never stopped you from getting items if you wanted them for alts. If you play all jobs and want them geared up then why not just simply play as that job?

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

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I honestly can't stomach the idea of decomstructing another one of your incredibly poorly worded posts so I'll leave it at this - mathematically the all greed system is going to give players less control over what loot they get. This is likely the endgame reasoning by SE for this shift as it will extend the longevity of the content by adding more runs when the window of loot you are willing to accept narrows.

You're incredibly naive to buy into this and it is going to impact you just as negatively as it does everyone else unless you're willing to cast an exceedingly wide net and just greed virtually everything that drops.

It seems like either you're incapable of understanding the full discussion or you've decided that you're right and won't see anything but the perspective you've deemed correct. Either way you come out of this blind to the plethora of issues awaiting both you and everyone else. I hope your ignorance is nice while it lasts.

I honestly dont see how this benefits the playerbase.

If anything it screws several players over. Mostly healers and tanks.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

I honestly can't stomach the idea of decomstructing another one of your incredibly poorly worded posts so I'll leave it at this - mathematically the all greed system is going to give players less control over what loot they get. This is likely the endgame reasoning by SE for this shift as it will extend the longevity of the content by adding more runs when the window of loot you are willing to accept narrows.

You're incredibly naive to buy into this and it is going to impact you just as negatively as it does everyone else unless you're willing to cast an exceedingly wide net and just greed virtually everything that drops.

It seems like either you're incapable of understanding the full discussion or you've decided that you're right and won't see anything but the perspective you've deemed correct. Either way you come out of this blind to the plethora of issues awaiting both you and everyone else. I hope your ignorance is nice while it lasts.

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Still not seeing why those points should be wrong:
1) overall it's more fair (same rng for everyone everytime)
2) average ilvl/skill should be higher, less ppl playing a job just for rolls
3) faster queues, because more stable amount of tanks/healer/dps queuing each week

And you won't convinve me that choosing a job based on loot chances is more fun than just playing what I want to play.
Even if it means I need to run 1-2 more times, guess what... I don't care that much. I don't look at the 24-man as something I have to endure so that I can finally get an upgrade.
I just like to play on different jobs and be able to try my luck on every interesting item with a fair (to stress it: the current system is not fair) and transparent system.
Todays, mathematically a healer has it harder to get a piece in x runs than a tank. A DRG always has it easier than a MNK and both have it easier than a caster. Period.
Funny how people ignore and belittle that, but blow the assumed downsides of the proposed change out of proportion.

And sure, I'm starting with a wide net and greed on many items at the start. I mean sure, if there are 1-2 intesting pieces for 7 jobs, I take the first one I get. And yes, I get a lot of my items per greed roll already.
But as the interesting items get fewer and fewer with each drop/week, so do the jobs I can choose from.

It is completely bs. Those of us with bad luck who do 100 or so runs to finally get gear have little to no chance now. It is not more fair like some say.
Clearly if you think it is more fair you people do not understand what you have read, lol.
It is like Mr Happy said players who do not play or barely do as tank or healer as example could get gear over someone that actually does need it for their job
May just have to skip the 24 man's going forward

SE are going backwards not forward

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

And yes, I get a lot of my items per greed roll already.

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As do I, because the alliance loot system is already terrible to get a particular item you want, so I just roll on anything to be done with it for the week (if I can even be bothered to run it once...).

Screw direct loot, implement a token system.

It's the fairest you can get, because everyone needs to do the exact same amount of runs for a given item. It still allows people to play what they like instead of what they need the loot for. You can tune it to take as many runs to get an item as you want people to run it in a week. It completely gets rid of the question what you use the item for in the end and which purpose is more or less justified, main, alt, seals, glam, whatever. It removes the issue of people bailing after X boss. Literally the only downside is that you can't get instant gratification by lucking out the first run.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

As do I, because the alliance loot system is already terrible to get a particular item you want, so I just roll on anything to be done with it for the week (if I can even be bothered to run it once...).

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Looking at this sentence I guess that's one reason why it's hard to agree on something here.

Arguing with people whose highest priority is to reduce the amount of runs of a content they don't like to gear a job they don't play often doesn't make sense, if my approach is different.
I play on the job I want, do the 24-man as long as I have fun to do so and take what I get (if anything) within 6 runs or something like that per week...
I won't do 30 more runs, just because of gear and I won't stop after 1 run (or even first boss) on tuesday, just because I got lucky. Running content is not a burden.

ugh i truly cant believe this. WHY?! It was such a pain to try and get gear when your rolling against one other person or just HOPING your piece drops?! I hated doing Rabanastre for the pieces
I wanted and I'm really not looking forward to this change, and if that new caster gear ends up being the new alliance raid drop im going to be SO PISSED

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

I won't do 30 more runs, just because of gear and I won't stop after 1 run (or even first boss) on tuesday, just because I got lucky. Running content is not a burden.

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"This change won't really affect me so I will argue in favor of this change despite it hurting many others"

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take what I get (if anything)

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Is the key here. You're not really using this content to gear up if you can afford not to get your weekly item from it so of course you don't care about any changes to the looting rules. At least be honest and say "this will make it easier for me to roll on what I want while I still run the content because I won't lose to a Need role", then at least people will see where you're coming from.

Worst idea since the change to MSQ Roulette. I never see the gear I want anyway, why should I have to fight someone who probably doesn't even play the job nearly as much as I do when it does drop?

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

"This change won't really affect me so I will argue in favor of this change despite it hurting many others"

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Faster queues (because being able to queue as most needed role), higher average ilvl, more fair loot distribution in general ofc affects me.

Since SE is changing something there is probably a reason, why they think it needs to change.
Does SE just like me more than other players? I don't think so. So why do they pander my playstyle?

Overall more playtime can't be achieved, the rate at which players on average get their drop should be about the same with x players dropping out each day.
I mean, we can agree on that SE won't make more money with that change, right?
So, right now there seems to be a flaw in the system, affecting queues or loot distribution, no one here is seeing.

I for myself still remember CT3 runs with 10+ BRDs, because BRD chest was BiS (even better than raid gear).... more than once a week.
Role restriction always leads to people choosing a role just because of higher chances on gear. I say: "That's nothing you should get "rewarded" for."
Why should a drop after a boss only reward the roles it is for? From the PoV of the 7 other players they already got screwed and that one DRG get's a 100% drop because he is a DRG.
And if it's a healer drop the healer has a 50% chance. Soooo fair and awesome, that different roles have different chances! /s.
It's way fairer to give an equal chance to everyone on every drop.

The caster gear looks nice and the melee ones are not glamour-worthy? GG, now we have a high influx regarding caster. In the end it's harder to get the most wanted items... either more people roll and risk their weekly drop.. or more people go as caster from the beginning.
NIN gear has a lot of skill-speed on the items? Well, less NINs for this 24-man, I guess.
Personally, it's just different RNG, but not worse.
But the thing it affects the most is group compositions. And that is good, imho.

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

1) overall it's more fair (same rng for everyone everytime)

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For certain definitions of "fair". I don't consider me getting equal chances at RDM gear while I'm healing when there's a RDM main that actually needs it as an upgrade to be fair. Nor does virtually the entire MMO community, which is why the etiquette evolved over a decade ago that upgrades for whatever you're playing has priority in a PUG environment.

SE's going against the convention because reasons, totally out of left field. It's baffling.

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]2) average ilvl/skill should be higher, less ppl playing a job just for rolls
3) faster queues, because more stable amount of tanks/healer/dps queuing each week

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No, because now instead of having to do the harder roles and keep people alive on Hashmal, I can just queue as a DPS and still roll on the healer gear I actually want with the same odds.

This is going to lead to slower queues, not faster queues.

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And you won't convinve me that choosing a job based on loot chances is more fun than just playing what I want to play.

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And you won't convince me it was hard to get loot out of alliance roulette before. I geared my PLD and RDM off greed roles in Rabanastre while healing, during the lockout period. Half the people in there wouldn't roll on most of it due to lockouts.

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Even if it means I need to run 1-2 more times, guess what... I don't care that much. I don't look at the 24-man as something I have to endure so that I can finally get an upgrade.
I just like to play on different jobs and be able to try my luck on every interesting item with a fair (to stress it: the current system is not fair) and transparent system.
Todays, mathematically a healer has it harder to get a piece in x runs than a tank. A DRG always has it easier than a MNK and both have it easier than a caster. Period.
Funny how people ignore and belittle that, but blow the assumed downsides of the proposed change out of proportion.

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This contradicts all the reasons you just stated. It'll take more runs than before due to this change by your own admission, and that some how makes it good because you don't mind having to do it more? That makes absolutely no sense.

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And sure, I'm starting with a wide net and greed on many items at the start. I mean sure, if there are 1-2 intesting pieces for 7 jobs, I take the first one I get. And yes, I get a lot of my items per greed roll already.
But as the interesting items get fewer and fewer with each drop/week, so do the jobs I can choose from.

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That was already true before, except people who needed it for their main would get priority on it first. We've removed that, so now everyone gets to take longer. yay?

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

Faster queues (because being able to queue as most needed role), higher average ilvl, more fair loot distribution in general ofc affects me.

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You mean slower queues because I can queue as the easiest to carry role instead of having to keep all these suicidal DPSers alive.

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Since SE is changing something there is probably a reason, why they think it needs to change.

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The whole mobile app fiasco doesn't lend credence to the idea that SE has a good rationale for anything it does. This has been offered up with no explanation and no community outcry that needed solving. Quite the opposite, it's CREATED a problem.

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Overall more playtime can't be achieved, the rate at which players on average get their drop should be about the same with x players dropping out each day.
I mean, we can agree on that SE won't make more money with that change, right?
So, right now there seems to be a flaw in the system, affecting queues or loot distribution, no one here is seeing.

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They should maybe communicate that, then? This is worse than whatever problem they're supposedly trying to solve, and they would have realized that with five minutes of interaction with us.

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Originally Posted by Tridus

You mean slower queues because I can queue as the easiest to carry role instead of having to keep all these suicidal DPSers alive.

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Means faster queue for me, if I go healer then.
And since I have fun doing so and you have fun going as dps, it's win-win regarding job choices. Do you really think all those healer/tanks are only incentived by gear?!
Maybe it's even a smoother run, bored players or players on a role they don't wanna play usually makes content harder.

Sad, if most healers are just there, because they have to because of loot roles.

Really strange they thought this is a better solution than a weekly token system...............


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....... Nope still don't get it

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

Means faster queue for me, if I go healer then.
And since I have fun doing so and you have fun going as dps, it's win-win regarding job choices. Do you really think all those healer/tanks are only incentived by gear?!
Maybe it's even a smoother run, bored players or players on a role they don't wanna play usually makes content harder.

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No, I like healing. But if I have to run it 3x more to get healer loot because random DPSers keep taking it, eventually the path of least resistance is going to win out.

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Originally Posted by Tridus

No, I like healing. But if I have to run it 3x more to get healer loot because random DPSers keep taking it, eventually the path of least resistance is going to win out.

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It is true that people only going for very few different pieces, might have it harder. Maybe, but that's something for mathematicans. It's still 3 different layers of RNG (and we don't even know if drop% for DRG [one job] and gear for aiming [two jobs] and gear for casters [3 jobs] are really the same). And I don't think they're a big group to begin with.

Also, the sooner I have my gear, the sooner I will go in there a few times a week without roling on anything, so that's a gain for everyone then. And trust me, people do play those contents for fun or just because some of their friends need gear and they want to have a fun time together. I can't be the nicest person in the world (hopefully, because I'm not thaaat nice).
I don't have space to store things more than once for half a year to get that Demi3, worth a wooping 12k, lol.
I always wonder myself, but often around sunday/monday less people roll on sigmascape normal loot, with 2 peps leaving right away or passing on everything. Ye, they do it for a friend, but in the end, they also pass for me. ;)


But coming back to queue times, because I honestly think it's better with the new system:
In ex roulette and sigmascape nm it's not the case that your role matters and we still have enough tanks or heals (and if not I queue as that myself).

Why doesn't literally everyone queue as dps in 12+ weeks old sigmascape normal, making it impossible to get in by now?
Depending on day and time I have 5 minute queues with every role, let it be tank, heal or dps.
Edit: Just checked; heals/tanks <5 min, dps 5 min. How is that even possible?

I mean:
If sigmascape nm would give normal gear you have to need on with the right role...
How many tanks do you think would still queue for O5s to be able to need on tank accesoires?
How many tanks would still queue for O7s, 12 weeks in, when tomestone tank pants are BiS and ppl already start buying tomestone stuff for 3rd/4th job?

Now, how many tanks will queue into 24-man just because of gear, when Eureka is updated to give you equal gear, tomestone gear is 18 weeks out and you can upgrades those as well.
Less than in sigmascape, where it doesn't give you any advantage to be on tank? I don't think so. And 24-man has even more space for dps, so it should work better there than in sigmascape where there is a slight imbalance in queue times.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Really strange they thought this is a better solution than a weekly token system...............


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....... Nope still don't get it

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Exactly, this is more the kind of system that should be implemented. Not run 100 times, not get any gear, be pissed off and try again the following week like it has been now and will be even worst if they roll out this Greed nonsense

Are we sure over the accuracy of the translation on this? What if the change was something on the lines of, the chest for your PARTY gets to roll need if matching job, like now, but encase no one can use it, they let the other 2 parties roll greed.

Someone on reddit who has always done the translations (mostly always accurately) has translated it again.

All greed is not more fair. It would only be more fair if all job roles had equal queue times and if all gear had equal value. Neither is true. Tanks have the longest queues because there is only 3 spots for them, all greed means it takes them longer to get gear because they have to wait the longer queues+roll against others. NIN and DRG gear has the least value because they are special snowflakes with their own gear while caster, healers and tanks can each be used on 3 jobs. That means healer, tank and caster gear has a lot more value to players than NIN and DRG gear. Healers, casters and tanks are going to have it harder to get gear improvements because everyone can roll on their gear.

If you play the job, wait through duty finder queue as that job, you should be able to at least have priority to loot on gear for that job. Simple as that.

This is an absolutely terrible idea. Not much to add, just voicing my complete opposition to this. What are they thinking?

I’m not a fan of this change at all, it seems like it might be a feeble attempt to prolong content as long as possible by using more layers of rng to prevent people from getting drops they’d typically get easier by running as the role they want the gear for. That’s fine, SE. I’ll only run these with my static now. At least my days of carrying scrub dps as a healer in these dumpster fire 24 mans are over.

I honestly think at this point they want the game to suffer and are trying to make the EU/NA community quit so they can actually go F2P which is a better business model in the long run since you can change for whatever the hell you want. Obviously JP doesn't care if they pay or not and wallet warriors obviously don't care as they will just fork out the money for whatever they want.

Well everyone is presuming that there is an equal chance of every piece of gear can drop.

It wouldn't surprise me if gear for the least played jobs has a better chance of dropping along with hands, feet and waist, ie the bits people least want to loot on.

The issue with this though would be it's most likely since it keep people in the content for longer and once you add an all greed system on top of this it just makes things worse

I know what people are going to say to this "RNG is RNG and I should shut up"

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Screw direct loot, implement a token system.

It's the fairest you can get, because everyone needs to do the exact same amount of runs for a given item. It still allows people to play what they like instead of what they need the loot for. You can tune it to take as many runs to get an item as you want people to run it in a week. It completely gets rid of the question what you use the item for in the end and which purpose is more or less justified, main, alt, seals, glam, whatever. It removes the issue of people bailing after X boss. Literally the only downside is that you can't get instant gratification by lucking out the first run.

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Well if you really wanted to keep the possibility to luck out and get something on the first one run, you can still have it with a token system. If you do X runs of the alliance raid without winning a piece of gear for the week, you get a token when leaving the instance after X time. Getting the token would mark you off as getting loot for the week, so you can't get both random gear and a token in the same week. The token would just act as safety so you can't go for too long without getting anything.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

I don't think they should take away the Need option in Alliance Raids. Just add tokens you can trade for the gear like in the 8 man normal raids.

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I vote for either this. Or the weekly 'personal loot' option that WoW provides.

The former gives a far better opportunity to gear up off-jobs though.

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

Todays, mathematically a healer has it harder to get a piece in x runs than a tank. A DRG always has it easier than a MNK and both have it easier than a caster. Period.

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How is it more fair? How? Instead if people having mediocre chances of being the only/1 of 2 players rolling for an item now everyone has totally random odds? What is this, Social Justice: The Game?


You are in the minority because you're the one who's wrong here.

Plenty of people (myself included) geared Casters through Rab - Casters who, statistically, have the highest chance of sharing loot drops woth other players. Well, apart from healers who always share, which I also grabbed a few Rab pieces for.

You're a broken record, saying the same thing over and over as if you're going to change anyone's mind with it the 88th time that you couldn't on the 87th. We are just as informed about this as you (if not more, I did actual math) but the difference is we are applying logic and reason to this change and finding it to be awful.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

How is it more fair? How? Instead if people having mediocre chances of being the only/1 of 2 players rolling for an item now everyone has totally random odds? What is this, Social Justice: The Game?

You are in the minority because you're the one who's wrong here.

Plenty of people (myself included) geared Casters through Rab - Casters who, statistically, have the highest chance of sharing loot drops woth other players. Well, apart from healers who always share, which I also grabbed a few Rab pieces for.

You're a broken record, saying the same thing over and over as if you're going to change anyone's mind with it the 88th time that you couldn't on the 87th. We are just as informed about this as you (if not more, I did actual math) but the difference is we are applying logic and reason to this change and finding it to be awful.

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So, what? I don't care if I change peoples mind, at least not as much as people here wanting to change SEs mind on that.
You should rather thank me helping to keep this thread alive... the biggest Eureka thread had something like 20.000 posts with a lot of "I unsub!!!!!!"'s and all we got was a bit more xp and something about turning in crystals.
But you're right, I should rather help to let this topic die and just play on. I recieved your message, now good luck to explain SE that they're "the ones who are wrong" as well. But don't repeat yourself in the process.

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

Why doesn't literally everyone queue as dps in 12+ weeks old sigmascape normal, making it impossible to get in by now?
Depending on day and time I have 5 minute queues with every role, let it be tank, heal or dps.
Edit: Just checked; heals/tanks <5 min, dps 5 min. How is that even possible?

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Because Sigmascape normal takes less than ten minutes whereas Alliance raids can span close to an hour. I can get 6-8 Kefka normal modes done within the time it'll take for one good Rabanastre. In a bad one? I could come close to doubling that amount. You also have more options with Sigma drops as every token except chains and shafts drop from two encounters.

Put simply, Sigma normal takes significantly less time, thus it remains active. Alliance raids are far longer and more prone to full party wipes.

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

You should rather thank me

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I'm sorry, what? I don't understand literally any of what you're going for here.

Good luck with your rolls - we're all gonna need it.

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Originally Posted by Its_Elodie

I’m not a fan of this change at all, it seems like it might be a feeble attempt to prolong content as long as possible by using more layers of rng to prevent people from getting drops they’d typically get easier by running as the role they want they want the gear for. That’s fine, SE. I’ll only run these with my static now. At least my days of carrying scrub dps as a healer in these dumpster fire 24 mans are over.

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So much this.

It's really starting to feel like "Equality" but no way fair to players.
https://goodmenproject.com/wp-conten...vs-justice.jpg

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Originally Posted by Shouko

I honestly think at this point they want the game to suffer and are trying to make the EU/NA community quit so they can actually go F2P which is a better business model in the long run since you can change for whatever the hell you want. Obviously JP doesn't care if they pay or not and wallet warriors obviously don't care as they will just fork out the money for whatever they want.

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This is incorrect, F2P is only a good model in short bursts, long term a healthy sub game like wow or xiv makes far more than any f2p mmo. The issue is they are now getting greedy and prying into both at the same time. Also having to sabotage their playerbase and force them to quit to change models makes no sense.

This in particular is just a misguided attempt to make something fair...but it was already fair so now its not and its stupid.

In any case, this entirely kills one of my favorite parts of the game. I'm not gonna roll against 7 people for every single items (everyone presses that greed button without a thought). I'll do it once for my upgrade token, that's it. The gear sucks anyways.

Also I'm gonna laugh if this one actually has good looking glamour for once and its now screwed at least we'll have a chance to get it before the weekly lockout is removed and it becomes truly terrible.

I am not sure I understand this change either. I was under the impression that alliance raid is for the casual folks as a primary mode for updating gear and everyone secondary ways of getting gear. I might be okay with this if they were simultaneously increasing the tome limit or removing the tome limit on the same patch.