Can we get rid of prisms please?

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Originally Posted by Felis

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chinese cash shop have "all class" DoH and DoL script gear as ilevel 1. Maybe coming soon to our cash shop

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Actually, I wouldn't mind having the level 50 fisher hat available on more of my jobs...

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

No i dont want it to go f2p I just want glamour for everyone from day one for everyone , its just something simple that should just be made available without goin the extra mile

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It always irked me that you couldn't glamor until level 50, and completion of the 2.0 MSQ...

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Originally Posted by TaranTatsuuchi

It always irked me that you couldn't glamor until level 50, and completion of the 2.0 MSQ...

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Finishing the 2.0 MSQ isn't required to unlock glamour, though. Just being lvl 50 (any job) is enough. It isn't even limited to DoW/M.

I know this because I got bored at one point, and decided to see if I could level an alt's DoH job to 50 without any of the combat jobs being all that high (think the highest was lvl 21 MNK, at that point). To my surprise, having a DoH to 50 also unlocked the glamour quest.

I do think they could lower the level requirement though, similar to how the dyeing quest only requires level 15.

I really wish i could of found another swtor player that could explain their glamour system they may fall behind this game in many other ways , but it destroys ff in how they do glamour and thats sad because this game is alot better

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Considering there's at minimum 600 individual pieces per slot, glamour logs in this game would become increasingly unwieldy and cumbersome to deal with. When I want to glamour something, I don't want to have to shuffle through page after page after page of glamours I don't want or like to get to the four or five that do.

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That just means the glamour log would need some good filtering options. We could have it just show items we'd marked as favorites, filter out items unsuited to our current class/job, show just the level 1 cosmetic only items or just the i90 AF set, show only headgear, show only items we'd dyed purple, or whatever.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

A glamour log that unlocks everything as soon as you pick up the relevant piece would be a complete nightmare, as opposed to the 1-2 pages I have to look through now.

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Then... don't learn everything?

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I'm pretty sure Thunda Cat was referring to:

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Originally Posted by Naunet

Rift automatically unlocks any appearance that ever lands in your inventory

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There's two basic methods of handling a glamour log. Either (like Rift) it records everything you get, or (like WildStar or LOTRO) you select certain pieces and save their appearances. The former pattern leads to a lengthy list of items that needs some ability to filter it to more easily find the items you're looking for. The later pattern leads to running out of room if you want to store lots of items.

(I've never played WildStar, but at least in LOTRO, the Wardrobe limits were tight enough that people would run out of room there, so start swapping items in and out. The result was that we'd keep the original inventory items in addition to their wardrobe appearances, so that we could replace the wardrobe appearances if we ever swapped them out for something else, then later wanted them back again. The point of the Wardrobe was to save inventory space by not needing to keep the items themselves, but we —or at least a lot of us— ended up keeping them anyway because of the size limitations. So while it did manage to provide some convenience, it didn't do much for its primary purpose of inventory reduction.)

I'd prefer Rift's pattern.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

There's two basic methods of handling a glamour log. Either (like Rift) it records everything you get, or (like WildStar or LOTRO) you select certain pieces and save

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I already addressed their concern via another avenue. They talked about there being multiple thousands of gear items registered to the database, but they did not mention that many of those items share appearances. In Rift, it's not the ITEM that unlocks - each item has an "outfit" registered, and that unlocks. If you get an item under a different name that is the same model, it's not unlocked a second (or third, or fourth) time.

In WildStar, you can also search your Holo-Wardrobe with key words (just like you'd search the auction house or whatever) to pull up related appearances. I can't remember if Rift has that or not. I usually just click through things when making outfits because I like toying with all my options and seeing what kind of new look I can put together.

I do prefer Rift's system and said so in one of my first posts in this thread.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

I don't see the issue of it being a crafted item, since they're relatively easy to just quicksynth. I do think the books should be unlockable at the recipe level of the prisms, which would be level 30.

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Agreed. I also think that's when glamour itself (the use of those prisms) should be unlocked. When you get any class to 30, unlock glamour. And when you get a gear DoH class to 30, unlock the book for that class's glamour prism. The 50 requirement for both of those seems a bit ridiculous.

It's an example of artificial/temporary economic systems in play. For FFXIV, prisms are your consumable items that were in demand to help keep the market running. It's one of the few things that actually made decent gil (back when it was released) that didn't center around selling to other crafters and didn't have a one-and-done sale that gear does. I always figured it was just to add to crafter value for that purpose.

Now that its much more common to have omni-crafters, it doesn't have much value, hence part of the reason to remove the tiers. I would actually be surprised if it doesn't get streamlined even further to just NPCs offering glamour services in the years to come. It's fine as it is though, as most people have said.

While I definitely want to see some sort of wardrobe or glamour book put in place, I'd still prefer it to require glamour prisms in order to apply the appearances to your gear. Glamour prisms are one of the few craftable items which will always be in demand, and possibly the only one that will never be outmoded by higher-level items. Basically it's a modest but reliable source of income for low-end crafters, something very lacking in the current game market.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

In Rift, it's not the ITEM that unlocks - each item has an "outfit" registered, and that unlocks. If you get an item under a different name that is the same model, it's not unlocked a second (or third, or fourth) time.

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Another advantage Rift's system has over LOTRO's. (In LOTRO, if the players themselves aren't careful about what appearances they save, the same one can get added to the Wardrobe multiple times. The system only combines them if the items also have the same name.)

Given the way this game currently handles glamour (e.g. distinguishing whether you glamoured a NQ Velveteen Shirt, HQ Velveteen Shirt, or Aetherial Velveteen Shirt), I'm afraid that's an optimization SE might miss, as it doesn't look as though their gear does currently have an appearance ID separate from the item ID. Hopefully, if they get as far as adding a glamour log, they'll update their item data so that the glamour log can work like Rift's, and only distinguish glamour for gear with different models.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

I'm afraid that's an optimization SE might miss

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It does feel like SE needs their hands held when it comes to certain things. >_< If they do decide to update their glamour system (*fingers crossed*), then hopefully they actually really put thought into it and fully look at why systems work the way they do in other games.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

Finishing the 2.0 MSQ isn't required to unlock glamour, though. Just being lvl 50 (any job) is enough. It isn't even limited to DoW/M.

I know this because I got bored at one point, and decided to see if I could level an alt's DoH job to 50 without any of the combat jobs being all that high (think the highest was lvl 21 MNK, at that point). To my surprise, having a DoH to 50 also unlocked the glamour quest.

I do think they could lower the level requirement though, similar to how the dyeing quest only requires level 15.

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I could have sworn that when I did it on my first character the quest wasn't available until after the 2.0 storyline...

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Originally Posted by TaranTatsuuchi

I could have sworn that when I did it on my first character the quest wasn't available until after the 2.0 storyline...

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Nope, only level 50 required for the quest.

http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wi...-improving_Man

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

I really wish i could of found another swtor player that could explain their glamour system they may fall behind this game in many other ways , but it destroys ff in how they do glamour and thats sad because this game is alot better

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It's really pretty simple. Each character has up to 5 wardrobe sets. If you have the item and can equip it, you put it in one of the wardrobe slots (head, chest, gloves, bracers, belt, legs, feet), pay a small fee, and the game saves the set. Now, whenever you wish to wear that set, you select it from your character interface and make it the "active" appearance. No matter what item you actually have equipped (or no item at all), your character will display you wearing the wardrobe items you've selected. I have a Jedi, for instance, who is wearing a Sith outfit I got for her around level 20. Even though she's changed the actual gear she's wearing a dozen times while leveling up, she is still wearing the same Sith outfit.

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Originally Posted by CocoPuff

It's really pretty simple. Each character has up to 5 wardrobe sets. If you have the item and can equip it, you put it in one of the wardrobe slots (head, chest, gloves, bracers, belt, legs, feet), pay a small fee, and the game saves the set. Now, whenever you wish to wear that set, you select it from your character interface and make it the "active" appearance. No matter what item you actually have equipped (or no item at all), your character will display you wearing the wardrobe items you've selected. I have a Jedi, for instance, who is wearing a Sith outfit I got for her around level 20. Even though she's changed the actual gear she's wearing a dozen times while leveling up, she is still wearing the same Sith outfit.

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They'd have to have what? 20? wardrobes just to have 1 for each class/job? One of the current main complaints is jobs that share gear cant have different glamours. So that would require at least 20 sets.

That's... a lot of micromanagement for something that's already handled pretty neatly. I shudder to think of what would happen if someone has separate glamours per job, class, DoH, and DoL... no thanks!

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

They'd have to have what? 20? wardrobes just to have 1 for each class/job? One of the current main complaints is jobs that share gear cant have different glamours. So that would require at least 20 sets.

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And with all classes/jobs unlocked, we can have 40 gear sets, so I'm sure we'd get at least that many wardrobe sets. Coco Puff's reference to 5 of them was discussing SWTOR's implementation.

Given the way we can change classes/jobs in this game it makes sense to tie these wardrobe outfit sets to our gear sets themselves. That way, when we switch jobs, our outfit switches with it, because the cosmetic outfit is glamoured to the gear set. The big advantage it would have over glamouring the gear directly is that we can have the same piece of gear in multiple gear sets, but separate appearances for each one.

One thing I would like to see removed if they do this, though, is glamour dispellers. If we glamour a gear set, but then get a new piece of gear we want to wear directly, we should have the option to make it visible. Give each glamoured slot a simple toggle for whether to show the glamour or our direct gear.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

And with all classes/jobs unlocked, we can have 40 gear sets, so I'm sure we'd get at least that many wardrobe sets. Coco Puff's reference to 5 of them was discussing SWTOR's implementation.

Given the way we can change classes/jobs in this game it makes sense to tie these wardrobe outfit sets to our gear sets themselves. That way, when we switch jobs, our outfit switches with it, because the cosmetic outfit is glamoured to the gear set. The big advantage it would have over glamouring the gear directly is that we can have the same piece of gear in multiple gear sets, but separate appearances for each one.

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So now, not only do I have to manage 20+ gearsets, I now also have to manage 20+ wardrobe sets? That doesn't sound annoying at all.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

That's... a lot of micromanagement for something that's already handled pretty neatly. I shudder to think of what would happen if someone has separate glamours per job, class, DoH, and DoL... no thanks!

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While neat, it is also restricting and limited. If you wear x gear on BRD, you are wearing that same gear on MCH. Wearing Cowboy gear on your MCH makes sense, but on a BRD? It's a bit weird. You can't have an entirely different aesthetic between jobs that share gear and it's a driving factor toward bettering the glamour system.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

So now, not only do I have to manage 20+ gearsets, I now also have to manage 20+ wardrobe sets? That doesn't sound annoying at all.

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You wouldn't have to. The option would be there if you want to use it. If you simply want to show your gear directly, you can ignore whatever glamour system is in place, whether it's the current one or the type being discussed here.

Certainly managing those glamour sets would be easier if tied to gear sets than it is now. Now, if you want to glamour something, you have to keep re-doing it each time you update the underlying gear as well as each time you want to change the glamour. With the proposed system, you'd only be doing so when you want to change the glamour. That's less managing of it than we currently have.

I disagree. There's several outfits that I like the look of across the different jobs. Changing the system means I'd have to start managing each individual glamour instead of the current system, where I find something I like the look.

Wait, you're also against glamours separated per job...?

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Then you two are surprised too easily.

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Is this still too easily???

I just like finding stuff that works with everything.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

That's... a lot of micromanagement for something that's already handled pretty neatly. I shudder to think of what would happen if someone has separate glamours per job, class, DoH, and DoL... no thanks!

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Why do you hate customization?

What's wrong with being able to create more than one outfit out of a glamour wardrobe and swap between them freely whenever you want? I seriously do not understand why you would be against this. There's no micromanagement. You just make outfits. "Hm, I feel like wearing Outfit 1 right now. *click* There we are!" Twenty minutes later, "Outfit 3 might better suit this zone. *click* And done!"

[edit] This would literally be LESS micromanagement than what we have now. Instead of having to glamour over every individual piece of gear, you could create a single outfit that you like and... be done. Forever.

I don't hate customization, but I do see that what actually needs work is actual character customization. The glamour works just fine the way it is. Conversely, I'm not sure I follow the obsession with glamour when there's other bigger appearance issues that I feel they should work on first... like extra options for character customization! Or why you feel glamour should be more complicated and convoluted than it is now.

The way it is now, it's one-and-done. With your suggested change, I'd need to change it literally every 10 minutes whenever I change jobs or classes.

No. No. You need to read our suggestions again.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

The way it is now, it's one-and-done. With your suggested change, I'd need to change it literally every 10 minutes whenever I change jobs or classes.

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No, changing between jobs with already saved gear sets would be no different than it is now. Click the gear set and it's there.

Currently, you glamour something once and it's there until one of two things happens: (A) you get new gear, so have to repeat the glamour, or (B) you decide you want a different glamour for that gear.

With the proposed changes, you do it once and it's there until (B) you decide you want a different glamour for that gear set.

This eliminates any need for the other change (when you get new gear) and keeps only a change when you want to change appearances (which both systems have). It's about simplifying the process, as well as making it more customizable.

Personally, I don't like the idea of it being tied to gear sets. I think it should be a separate menu, so that you can swap between classes and keep the same outfit if you want.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

Personally, I don't like the idea of it being tied to gear sets. I think it should be a separate menu, so that you can swap between classes and keep the same outfit if you want.

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That's exactly what I don't want. I have different outfits per job for a reason, and since I change jobs practically every five minutes, this means that I would literally have to be going into the menu every five minutes just to change my look. No. No. Bad. This is a horrible idea.

Except not even ten posts ago, you said...

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

I just like finding stuff that works with everything.

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and...

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

I disagree. There's several outfits that I like the look of across the different jobs. Changing the system means I'd have to start managing each individual glamour instead of the current system, where I find something I like the look.

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So which is it? Do you like using the same outfit for multiple jobs, or different outfits for different jobs? You're being incredibly inconsistent.

Same outfits for different roles. My tanks get one look, my healers get another, etc. And I have about 7-8 outfits I jump between per role depending what I'm after. I assumed that was obvious due to how gear works in this game, but I suppose common sense is in short supply.

Okay, so... If you like having the same outfit for different roles, then I'm not sure why a separate wardrobe section that lets you build and set one outfit that wouldn't change when you change jobs/classes is a "horrible idea".

Because if I'm as a healer, which use the Valerian Shaman set, I don't want to switch jobs to ninja and have myself inexplicably still wearing the Shaman set when it doesn't match the ninja theme. That means I'd have to go to the menu instead of simply switching jobs, and changing to the appropriate look. As often as I change jobs, it's disruptive to the flow of gameplay and discourages me from playing other jobs, which I enjoy doing.

I don't even spend much time in menu, I can change jobs straight from my hot bar.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Because if I'm as a healer, which use the Valerian Shaman set, I don't want to switch jobs to ninja and have myself inexplicably still wearing the Shaman set when it doesn't match the ninja theme. That means I'd have to go to the menu instead of simply switching jobs, and changing to the appropriate look. As often as I change jobs, it's disruptive to the flow of gameplay and discourages me from playing other jobs, which I enjoy doing.

I don't even spend much time in menu, I can change jobs straight from my hot bar.

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that or the glamour could just change along with your gear set

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Because if I'm as a healer, which use the Valerian Shaman set, I don't want to switch jobs to ninja and have myself inexplicably still wearing the Shaman set when it doesn't match the ninja theme. That means I'd have to go to the menu instead of simply switching jobs, and changing to the appropriate look. As often as I change jobs, it's disruptive to the flow of gameplay and discourages me from playing other jobs, which I enjoy doing.

I don't even spend much time in menu, I can change jobs straight from my hot bar.

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... then make it so outfit sets can be put on hotbars, too? Like gearsets? Oh no, you'd have to click two buttons on occasion! The horror. That's definitely worth refusing something that would bring a lot of people much pleasure.

You're still contradicting yourself, though. You claim you prefer having the same outfit across multiple jobs, and then you complain that when you change jobs, you want to change your costume.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Because if I'm as a healer, which use the Valerian Shaman set, I don't want to switch jobs to ninja and have myself inexplicably still wearing the Shaman set when it doesn't match the ninja theme..

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If SE were to add a system like this, it'd be very likely that a glamour set would be tied to a gear set. So if you'd go from healer to NIN, you'd go from Valerian Shaman set to whichever set your NIN is wearing.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

... then make it so outfit sets can be put on hotbars, too? Like gearsets? Oh no, you'd have to click two buttons on occasion! The horror. That's definitely worth refusing something that would bring a lot of people much pleasure.

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While I don't agree with Thunda, adding even more buttons to the hotbar is a bad idea. I already have two full bars with just DoW/M/H/L job buttons, I wouldn't be able to double that.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

That's exactly what I don't want. I have different outfits per job for a reason, and since I change jobs practically every five minutes, this means that I would literally have to be going into the menu every five minutes just to change my look. No. No. Bad. This is a horrible idea.

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Dude that makes no sense. If a system like this were implemented, obviously you would have the option to tie gearsets to glamour sets. Non-issue. In fact I see a glamour "set", being like an equippable item in the character UI, saved to a gearset. Easiest and simplest way to handle it.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

While I don't agree with Thunda, adding even more buttons to the hotbar is a bad idea. I already have two full bars with just DoW/M/H/L job buttons, I wouldn't be able to double that.

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I've got 8 full hot bars, with macros, potions, combat and pvp actions, crafting, combat, and gathering gear sets, the windows I check most often, repairing, teleports, my favorite six minions, my favorite 4 mounts +1 token ground mount, return, melding, and sprint all on my varied bars! I don't think I could even begin to find space for my glamour buttons!

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Originally Posted by Naunet

change roles, you want to change your costume.

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This is something that negatively effects my enjoyment of the game, so of course I'm gonna be outspoken about it. And yes, naturally, when I change from a healing to a combat job, I want something that looks the part. The Valerian shaman set doesn't suit a dps or tank job at all. If I swap from my thavnarian sarouel dressed caster deeps to my paladin or dark Knight, of course I'm gonna want to have a look that compliments my Baldur Blade/sword and darksteel scutum.

So my photoshop skills are pretty minimal, but this is kinda what I envision:

http://i.imgur.com/JquMVvm.png

Glamour tab in the character panel. You click on an empty Glamour Set box to start building an outfit and then click on whatever armor/weapon slot you want to glamour. This brings up the UI to the right, which would be a list of the different armor appearances you've unlocked. It would NOT unlock different gears with the same armor model; I just copied the hat icon because I didn't wanna go in and take screenshots of a bunch of different hat icons. Anyway, you click which one you want - it would show up as a preview in the paperdoll there in the middle, and then when you're ready you just hit the Select Appearance button. If you really want, the Save Appearance button could consume a Glamour Prism.

There ya go. Simple and straightforward.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

I've got 8 full hot bars, with macros, potions, combat and pvp actions, crafting, combat, and gathering gear sets, the windows I check most often, repairing, teleports, my favorite six minions, my favorite 4 mounts +1 token ground mount, return, melding, and sprint all on my varied bars! I don't think I could even begin to find space for my glamour buttons!



This is something that negatively effects my enjoyment of the game, so of course I'm gonna be outspoken about it. And yes, naturally, when I change from a healing to a combat job, I want something that looks the part. The Valerian shaman set doesn't suit a dps or tank job at all. If I swap from my thavnarian sarouel dressed caster deeps to my paladin or dark Knight, of course I'm gonna want to have a look that compliments my Baldur Blade/sword and darksteel scutum.

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I do believe the idea would be that we'd be able to tie specific glamor sets to gearsets as an option, as well as being able to swap between glamor sets ont he fly..?

If you tied it to a separate "costume" function, you could easily macro it, even.