Boring Endgame

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Originally Posted by Colt47

I think a lot of us had different ideas on what was supposed to happen with Heavensward and new content, but I agree, Final Fantasy WoW was not what people had in mind.

Also, it's one of the few times the live letter has not really thrown water to douse the fires so to speak.

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Except WoW actually handled content well once upon a time. You know rather than making interesting game play changes lets focus more on getting pet glamours because SMNs pets look ugly.

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

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Sounds to me like Peria Chronicles, if we ever hear more about it, will be right up your alley. The entire structure of the game is designed around the idea of players creating their own maps, towns, and even quests that other players can complete for rewards. Again...if development ever continues. And since it's a Korean MMO good luck with us getting it even within a year after whenever it gets released there.

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Originally Posted by VargasVermillion

Except WoW actually handled content well once upon a time. You know rather than making interesting game play changes lets focus more on getting pet glamours because SMNs pets look ugly.

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What's this? Did i miss something? Are we comparing this to WoW now?

Well let me tell you, this game will not sink so low to WoW's current level until they introduce another major patch that is dedicated to selfies and twitter.

They couldn't even give the patch an official name.

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Originally Posted by Averax

What's this? Did i miss something? Are we comparing this to WoW now?

Well let me tell you, this game will not sink so low to WoW's current level until they introduce another major patch that is dedicated to selfies and twitter.

They couldn't even give the patch an official name.

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I said 'once upon a time' not now. Besides the game is basically WoW with some minor differences, So comparisons will always be made. It's a better game than current WoW but is it a better game than older WoW?

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Originally Posted by VargasVermillion

I said 'once upon a time' not now. Besides the game is basically WoW with some minor differences, So comparisons will always be made. It's a better game than current WoW but is it a better game than older WoW?

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Yes lol wow had 0 creativity everyone ran around looking the same and the character models just plan ugly {it took them till 2015 to fix the models} Don't get me wrong wow is the grandfather of mmo games it had very good ideas and very fun events {run of the zombies or headless horse man} but what made it stick around was it's big ass world. ff is not as big by any means but has that spark that makes you wanna keep playing {or me at least} but can it keep it? who knows time will tell

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Originally Posted by SakuraMidori

Yes lol wow had 0 creativity everyone ran around looking the same and the character models just plan ugly {it took them till 2015 to fix the models} Don't get me wrong wow is the grandfather of mmo games it had very good ideas and very fun events {run of the zombies or headless horse man} but what made it stick around was it's big ass world. ff is not as big by any means but has that spark that makes you wanna keep playing {or me at least} but can it keep it? who knows time will tell

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How about classes, dungeons and raids? their design, scale, mechanics? how do these hold up in XIV by comparison? Visuals are irrelevant and a matter of preference.

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Originally Posted by Eye_Gore

1. Drink beer
2. Find someone to laugh at
3. Wander around some more
4. Get another beer
5. Get into dungeon run, tell everyone "come with me if you want to live"
6. BRB, restroom run before final boss
7. Get another beer
8. Kill it, laugh with everyone, "have a great nite all"
9. Repeat.

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You are a hero and an inspiration!

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Originally Posted by SakuraMidori

Y Don't get me wrong wow is the grandfather of mmo games

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If i was a GM i will perma-ban you after write that ._. (j/k). But anyway, that statement is totally totally false.

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Originally Posted by SakuraMidori

Yes lol wow had 0 creativity everyone ran around looking the same and the character models just plan ugly {it took them till 2015 to fix the models} Don't get me wrong wow is the grandfather of mmo games it had very good ideas and very fun events {run of the zombies or headless horse man} but what made it stick around was it's big ass world. ff is not as big by any means but has that spark that makes you wanna keep playing {or me at least} but can it keep it? who knows time will tell

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The appearace of the characters was your only gripe?

It's a 10 year old game. That's like faulting FFXI for the same reason.

(And honestly the new character models are sort of a train wreck. Some turned out great, but others need serious facial adjustment)

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Originally Posted by Writer

Areas with puzzles that you have to figure out - like walk three steps forward, jump left, run forward, mount Chocobo to make bigger jump but don't fly. Or, to open this dungeon, you have to find the four numbers exclusive to you in 40 different possible locations based on clues.

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lol, this sounds really dumb + bad

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Originally Posted by Averax

The appearace of the characters was your only gripe?

It's a 10 year old game. That's like faulting FFXI for the same reason.

(And honestly the new character models are sort of a train wreck. Some turned out great, but others need serious facial adjustment)

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wow looked bad back in 2003

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Originally Posted by Writer

I was thinking more along the lines of, let's say, how you can enter dungeons undersized. Except you could go from solo to max amount of party members and even form some sort of alliance or whatever with another party to tackle it together, but it's not required to be a certain size. It would be done for end game content rather than old game content. Imagine a hunt that is party restricted because you have the wanted poster - other parties can't attack it but you can and you can either form a party or decide to go after it solo. It would be designed for eight max but can be done from 1 to 8. Open world so no ring lines. That kind of thing which I understand is different.

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so u want a boss leve? okay, u could have just said that instead of all those words

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

PvE encounters intrinsically have no replay value once you figure out the mechanics and how to beat them. This would be no different in any other MMO you play, it's just the nature of PvE...

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this is a p foolish statement. ur saying story-based games have no replay value and that's just false on its face

Well...
As soon as I finished the great HW Story..
I was sad and felt empty<.<
Because... Now.. Its nothing to do than the "usual" stuff back on 2.X D;
But not this time. This time I dont join the extremly time wasting threatmill for gears/weaps so they will be worthless again after the next expansion/patches >_>

I just do (not)everything slowly. And Lv up my favourite Jobs to experience there new job quest story.

they have way to make content with replay value, the question is do they want to spend time on making them?
a lot of player have told them that they want content perfectly balanced and such... we did say for long that scripted content was plainly bad and was needed to be changed!

the trouble, as i have told, is the lack of content to the same level of reward than raid and dungeon (that are often heavily scripted and with a replay value near 0) they need to add activity that can rivalize with dungeon and raid in terms of challenge AND reward! mmorpg is not a dungeon like game type.... they need to make us feel part of the world. after we did complet the story.... we are disconnected of the world and that one trouble they need to work on.

hamlet defense from the V1 was a try to change this, it's not perfect and can't be reused as this, but the idea behind is interesting. i hope they will go in this sense for when we get closer of the war with the empire. making us needing to fight for protect area from the control of the empire. pve interaction don't need to be left into dungeon, they can even take different form... they can even try to look at the fps genre for create new content.

some idea is a horde mode mixed with the domination the player must keep control of area while fighting wave of enemy! it can be done perfectly, they can even work on a system making the encounter random like the splatoon system making map only avalaible for a time of period. the point of this sort of content it's not that hard to create map for this... since the enemy can be divided between faction like the tribes, the empire, the dragoon or even bandit/pirates! when a faction is completed they can add this to the system while continuing to add new map. the point is to make us part of the conflict roaming around.

like i have said they can add a system of reward taken from the pvp, with grade earned by the participation of the player, a token system that are used for buy new gears from it. other advantage, it will offer the capacity to choice the type of gears we want to equip. instead to have everyone wear the same equipement at max level. more choice is what they must work on!

it's only one type of idea, you can do anything you want, that the forte of the mmorpg, nothing is impossible the only limit they have are the one they create themself! another example, since a looot of people like speedrun, why not create a system of time attack with a leaderboard, same different token for get different type of item. the point it's to reward people deciding to spent time into one type of activity based on the time and effort spend into it.

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Originally Posted by VargasVermillion

I said 'once upon a time' not now. Besides the game is basically WoW with some minor differences, So comparisons will always be made. It's a better game than current WoW but is it a better game than older WoW?

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I can answer this as I have played and greatly enjoyed "older WoW". It was the best game ever! Please let's not ask FF14 to surpass it, I am not saying it's impossible, but it's very, very hard.
FF14 is better than current WoW, and way better than any other game in the field. That's enough for me!

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Originally Posted by ExponentialDecay

this is a p foolish statement. ur saying story-based games have no replay value and that's just false on its face

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Ok, please elaborate in detail how it is false. Let's take out the rewards from the PvE encounters in any game. Are you telling me you would want to do them over and over if we did that? How many times could you do that before becoming bored?

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Originally Posted by SonTensei

I beat all of the coils (t1-t13) before they got nerfed and will probably end up finishing alex savage before nerfing as well.. anyways it dawned on me and a few friends the other night..

endgame in 14 is pretty boring.
wish SE would have spiced it up with HW.

But .. seems like more of the same from 2.x..

would be nice to have something challenging to do.
Current game is like
1. grind tomes
2. learn raid
3. get weekly loot
4. grind hunts
5. repeat.
thats it..
on top of that, there isnt much uniqueness about the loot.
do something please SE

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If anyone is bored atm, its most likely their fault for rushing. I took my time. I have none of the following issues :P

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Originally Posted by Atrious

If anyone is bored atm, its most likely their fault for rushing. I took my time. I have none of the following issues :P

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HW has been out for a month now. Most people have been able to get through the 51-60 content. Now that they are at end game (referring to the content you do once you reach level 60) they are annoyed that it's that same as 2.XX with nothing really new to offer other than different settings. It's two primal EX, 3 dungeons, and raid. People want something new and different to do, but are stuck with the same old routine.

There needs to be a purpose for having better gear. Getting gear just for the sake of getting gear seems pretty pointless to me.

In my opinion the pvp needs to be redone and become a much bigger focus. That way you get better gear to succeed better in pvp. There could be a leaderboard for that or something. Or for pve there could be some kind of arcade mode with a time-attack dungeon type thing with a leaderboard.

Basically there needs to be some competitive purpose to end-game or else it isn't any different than a single player game that you finish and have nothing left to accomplish.

FFXIV:ARR is average when it comes to end game and there really isn't much they can do about it. Coordinated jump rope requires party members to be in sync with one another to succeed, but they've built the group content around a lobby gaming tool where you play with random players. You could know the fight perfectly and still fail nine out of ten times because your teammates never practiced with one another before. In fact, that accounts for more of my end game deaths than when I was learning the fights.

Stuff like Coil is niche material for a niche audience, which is why Alexander is so easy now. FFXIV wouldn't be doing so well if they tried another Coil raid. They've already made a cash shop before the first expansion. It'd be understandable if they were to go free to play before the next.

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Originally Posted by Fendred

Which is why Alexander is so easy now. FFXIV couldn't survive another Coil raid.

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maybe because it's the story mode and another mode come tomorrow?

outside this they can solve all them trouble by stoping to turn the whole game around dungeon and raid. MMORPG are not a dungeon simulation game and until they don't try to change this the problem will stay like this

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

maybe because it's the story mode and another mode come tomorrow?

outside this they can solve all them trouble by stoping to turn the whole game around dungeon and raid. MMORPG are not a dungeon simulation game and until they don't try to change this the problem will stay like this

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One dungeon with a single difficulty is different than having a normal mode dungeon with an optional higher difficulty. Savage mode coil is kind of different, considering basic Binding Coil was already designed to appease a niche group. Savage coil was for a very niche group indeed.

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Originally Posted by Atrious

If anyone is bored atm, its most likely their fault for rushing. I took my time. I have none of the following issues :P

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The pace at which you do the listed items isn't the problem, it is the short list of items that exist. Whether you burn through them or do them slowly we are all bound to same systematic grind that has been the same since 2.0 was released.

Holy Crap, I didnt expect this thread to get so long lol. I think Legacy players for one got bored alot easier in 2.x because most of us already had everything or mostly everything lv 50. So alot of us did our relics, our coils, ct, and grinded tomes for a year.. I have to admit golden saucer was a fun for a couple weeks.

I think what im hoping for is
1. Making leveling 2nd/3rd/4th jobs much easier - buff xp bonus
2. Challenging open world content that you can do as many times as you want with a group. Farm pop items and they drop crafting mats for gear that actually matters. They tried this with the treasure maps but the difficulty isnt really there and the crafted gear is never really worth it/ Im sorry im not a glamour fiend. I could care less about a pink bikini or what have you.
3. Something like Dynamis, a huge raid that isnt faceroll like CT..
4. Tie in the relic to the raids maybe?
5. make it possible to challege people for pvp?
6. better pvp period.

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Originally Posted by Fendred

One dungeon with a single difficulty is different than having a normal mode dungeon with an optional higher difficulty. Savage mode coil is kind of different, considering basic Binding Coil was already designed to appease a niche group. Savage coil was for a very niche group indeed.

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savage alexander is the top tier raid.... what they have try to do was to allows everyone to see the story behind the raid. i had said it about another subject, but for them create a content that will be seen only by 9-10% of the community is not good. them goal is to allows everyone to reach all the story content. savage coil =/= savage alexander = coil without echo

Basically what im reading through peoples responses are 1. Folks that agree and 2. Folks who think there is plenty of stuff to do.

Well If i analyze the situation from a business perspective, i suppose it is good business to keep the majority of your subscribers happy. In FF14 case, a vast majority of the subs are people who really dont care about raiding so much. In that regard its probably pointless to get your hopes up about anything outside the box, its safer for them to remain cookie cutter with everything.

If one customer base makes me (A)$1000/hr and the other customer base makes me (B)$100/hr im going to make sure the $1000/hr customer is happy first... if i lose a few of the $100/hr customers, so what its the cost of doing business and keeping my (A) segment customers happy.

I just remember when game was first out. We just had two dungeons at end game, what was WP, and AK, 3 hard mode primals, and coil turn 1-5.
Everything else like EX primals was later.
We have more in HW endgame. Just give it time for more patches. Soon would be more dungeons we never see again.

To me, the most fun I had was when they introduced ex primals. You could do coil on Tuesday/Wednesday or whenever your group ran it. And then you could farm ex primals for accessories on your off days.

I wish they would do that again. Have savage Alexander for your gear, some difficult trials or raids for equivalent accessories. And Ravana for weapons.

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Originally Posted by Alipoprocks

To me, the most fun I had was when they introduced ex primals. You could do coil on Tuesday/Wednesday or whenever your group ran it. And then you could farm ex primals for accessories on your off days.

I wish they would do that again. Have savage Alexander for your gear, some difficult trials or raids for equivalent accessories. And Ravana for weapons.

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i think that what people complain about, when you think about it Coil and the Ex was the same thing.... but it was not different. when you had a good group for it that it.
like i don't stop to say, they need to add other activity that are not EX or raid. something people will do for change them mind, something more random and less scripted. that why i did propose the mix between horde and domination mode. the advantage of this, is the fact since it's random, you will never get the same match.

i don't say it will not recquire work for make it work... but i feel they need to add content with high replay value that are not based on the loot. more important, they need to add different activity.... one that will make us still feel connected to the world.

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Originally Posted by DukeBurden

*facepalm* YOU PEOPLE DO NOT READ! WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ---ENDGAME---, NOT the stupid filler crap. Yes we CAN level alts and craft and gather, but that's not ENDGAME!

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I did read, stop being condescending.
I was replying to this very thing he complained about: Leveling alt jobs.

End game is not only Raiding, thats only if you are narrow-minded.
There is plenty to do at level 60 - again, if you choose to ignore it thats your own fault.

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Originally Posted by Alipoprocks

To me, the most fun I had was when they introduced ex primals. You could do coil on Tuesday/Wednesday or whenever your group ran it. And then you could farm ex primals for accessories on your off days.

I wish they would do that again. Have savage Alexander for your gear, some difficult trials or raids for equivalent accessories. And Ravana for weapons.

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2.1 was the best update IMO as well.

Relic quest was still awesome. Dungeons, Hardmode, Chimera, Hydra with minimal grind. Relic was still very good. i90 (I think allagan got the i95 bump at 2.1)
Coil
EX primals, difficult but all had relevant drops, weekly quest for an i90 weapon as well

Many paths to i90 (Tomes,Coil,EX Primals for gear, Relic,Coil,EX quest for weapons)

Since gearing was simple, it came down to player skill.

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Originally Posted by Shadowsun

I did read, stop being condescending.
I was replying to this very thing he complained about: Leveling alt jobs.

End game is not only Raiding, thats only if you are narrow-minded.
There is plenty to do at level 60 - again, if you choose to ignore it thats your own fault.

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careful he might *facepalm* again, anything he don't like is called "stupid filler crap".

There's actually quite a lot to do in the game, but to many people can't see past their nose and think ENDGAME! = raiding.

HW as of now, is literally the extension to 2.0.
WP/AK = Fract/NR.
Primals = Primals.
Coil =/= Alex because Alex is boringly easy...

The bad thing is, we get Alex Savage mode, but how's this new to us?
Having Alex Story was a bad idea imo...At least having it first.
It's bad because we have a gist of how the mechanic's to play...
Still going back to the same ol' raid. :/
Again, no one is talking about the game in general, most people have maxed everything in 2 years already.
I just don't like this patterns we're having. I'm really going to be upset if we get HM's out of these 8 dungeons. That is not
the same as new content. Gotta get creative here SE.

I really wish that the game had the wealth of content variety that FFXI did with the Aht Urhgan expansion. ToAU itself brought in Assault, Besieged, Salvage, alongside a more traditional "raid" in Einherjar, as well as the best thing ever: Nyzul Isle which was relevant content to small groups with floors of different layouts and random objectives / enemy combinations with a timer you were always racing against. I've not had anything in this game be as fun as Nyzul Isle was in FFXI.

But that's a large part of the problem: everything in this game feels very similar to everything else, and 3.0 looks like it's going to repeat the exact same pattern: "primals," raid, 24-man content. So even if the content is new, I feel like I've been there before already. And I have.

We all have to remember that SE is collectively healing from the wound that was 1.0. They are collectively playing it safe because they have to. We dont know how much money they lost in developing 1.0 or how long they are away from getting back in good graces. Remember: Companies dont innovate when they have a lot to lose. With this in mind, im not suprised with 3.0 being similar to 2.0. 2.0 is making them money. I can expect a huge change around 4.0 if they remain profitable.

My one concern is if they dont have a deep enough foundation with which to experiment.

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Originally Posted by Shadowsun

End game is not only Raiding

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Slightly incorrect. You're not wrong in that there is kinda stuff to do, but Endgame is generally defines as any applicable content that becomes available at max level. All these other side things you might be implying exist at 60, are not "End game" activities... houses, Retainers, Triple Triad, the Saucer, none of them require level 60 to do, and therefor cannot be considered "Endgame" activities.

They are "Side Activities"... which I'm not saying doesn't count... I'M NOT. But I think the biggest gripe in this thread is that most of it was the same stuff we've been doing since 2.X...in fact everything is. The only truly new things in heavensward is flying, and while I get a real kick out of flying around every zone checking out the nooks and crannies... theres like... no reason behind it, so once I've done it once theres little reason to do it again. Even Destiny has open world chests... Why is SE scared of tangible open world rewards? I wish they would take bigger leaps with it. They did take a few this time though. I've found FATEs that drop Pink Armor (A belt), I've found FATEs that drop Barding and some that drop Triple Triad Cards... this is nice.. but why not add Open world "Chests" and "Coffers" like in XI, except make the system suck less. Instead of one person opening it and being done, make it stay "Opened" for about 3-5 minutes where anyone who then finds it (or has a key if they add keys) can also collect spoils from it. They could add TT Cards, Dyes, Synth Materials from local enemies in generous quantities, and even have a "Zone" specific rare drop like a Minion, Mount, Vanity piece or 5* Triple Triad Card, perhaps even a Once-a-Day Tomestone boost.

I mean, when I find myself considering what to do, I would love if I could say "Well, Churning Mists chest has a 5* Triad card, lets try to get that today", and then glide around the zone looking in every corner of it for that chest to open it and hope for the best. Would anyone not like that? To those thinking it might be a hunt like scenario. Here are some solutions

1) Chests respawn like B Ranks. After it depops, it will repop somewhere about 30s-1 minute later.
2) Can only open the chest/obtain spoils from it once every ~6 hours (Even 24 if you wanna make the chests quite valuable), something similar to a map allowance. Or put another wall in (Farming a Key from local enemies could also do the trick)

We do have Treasure Maps which are actually quite fun as well, but just being able to go out and hunt coffers in the corners of these amazing maps would be fun... something that gives actual MEANING and USE to exploring the open world via-Flying or what have you. Give flying a purpose, give exploration a meaning. Small steps, but valuable steps, could go a long way in staving that "I have nothing to do" feeling people get.

I love your chest idea. Anything to give these zones more of a purpose to be in and explore!

the chest idea is nice, but i feel it's far to be enough... i still feel we are disconnected of the story when the msq is done.
an example of stuff i want to see it's by example it's how crafter can help to build ydillshire, like every day player have to bring back component that will help to rebuild a part. i did feel sad that we had no impact on the change of the revenant tolls.

I don't think so, Before the Fall (2.5) Ending was perfect, and makes me curious about the game's story.

Even HW (3.0)'s story still also ongoing.

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Originally Posted by Shadowsun

I did read, stop being condescending.
I was replying to this very thing he complained about: Leveling alt jobs.

End game is not only Raiding, thats only if you are narrow-minded.
There is plenty to do at level 60 - again, if you choose to ignore it thats your own fault.

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Endgame = raiding. Endgame doesn't mean "oh, my main raid is done for the week, let me go level an alt class." That's called filling in time because the ONE RAID we have, is finished for the week. That happened with Coil in 2.0 and it'll happen in this game. Once the raids start getting cleared on Tuesday reset, players stop logging on until the next reset. THAT'S endgame, THAT'S BORING when you only have one thing to do. Idk why you keep suggesting to do things that AREN'T ENDGAME. Again, I don't think you're understanding what we're discussing in this thread. You keep saying I'm ignoring content, yes, you're right. But you're not suggesting any ENDGAME.

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Originally Posted by Johaan

careful he might *facepalm* again, anything he don't like is called "stupid filler crap".

There's actually quite a lot to do in the game, but to many people can't see past their nose and think ENDGAME! = raiding.

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Yeah, I'm gonna facepalm you too because I'm not saying what you guys are suggesting is crap, I'm saying what you guys are suggesting isn't ENDGAME. ENDGAME is the content to do at 60 and quite frankly, it's boring and over too fast.

I just wish there was good PvP.