Ninja: Heaven-Sword (And Beyond)

Short questiion to you NINs:
How many Icons will you have for the Ninjutsus? Only one which is transforming for each combo or for each skill?

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Originally Posted by Lantia

Short questiion to you NINs:
How many Icons will you have for the Ninjutsus? Only one which is transforming for each combo or for each skill?

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You get 3 mudra's and one button for ninjutsu so a total of 4 buttons on your hotbar.

Many thanks :D

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Originally Posted by Atreides

I got the Belt this week and plan to grab the pants next week for BiS. Accuracy isn't an issue so far since I'll grab some 210 accessoiries to make up for it.
Other than that there's still buff food for accuracy. D:

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Ofc it's not an issue as long as you're wearing the i180 hands and neck. ^^ now switch those for the i190 pieces and you'll see your acc drop by quite a bit, buying the eso ring would now bring you down so low even acc food couldn't make up for it. Ofc i210 drops will change everything up a bit, but since no drops for me yet and still weeks away from my 4th manifesto, I'm not calculating with those and just buy eso BiS pieces that will not drop my acc/give me additional acc instead of dropping it. I will too buy the pants once i get my i190 (or crafted i180 xD) chest though.

Getting reports from people doing A4S that you need around 640 acc so was thinking http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/RABD for the A4S BIS obviously you don't need that much for A1 and A2 And A3 is around 630

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Originally Posted by Pluvia

Curious to know what you all plan to buy next with esoterics.

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Pants and then belt for me. I could get the belt this week, but if I did that I would have to nearly cap esoterics on the following Tuesday to get the pants in time for raid. I'm lucky enough to have the boots from A2s right now, but I need try and shave off some skill speed. That fight has been the first time I've been really hurting for tp.

Hello,

I'm new to ninja and reached 60 few days ago.

I've been to A1s once already and I was downcapped in ACC. I've tried to look on the ACC numbers but I can't find them.

Right now i'm 580 accuracy - is it enough for A1s with the pira food ?

Also I've started to buy my weapon for eso, what would you suggest next ? I though of buying the torso but it's very expansive so i'll have it next week probably.

Thanks for your answers and sorry if the ACC question was asked, I didn't see it. (I saw 630 for A4S but nothing for A1S).

Yunaae

I think I heard it was 578 for A1S, tho...
If A4S is 630 then 630 will definitelly suffice for A1S... so might as well gear up ahead of time?

And what about the eso stuff ?

Only reason you need so much accuracy for a4 is because legs are frontal
(it is like this in normal and in t11 as well)

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Originally Posted by Yunnae

And what about the eso stuff ?

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If you take a look at the stats you will realize the chest piece is one of the worst pieces of the set. I suggest go for whatever other pieces you can afford acc wise first because generally the alex normal body will suffice for now. For me personally I bought weapon last week, belt and bracelet this week and will go for shoes next week. Didn't plan any further ahead.


I have a question too though. If I can somehow not fit duality+AE into the TA window of the opener consistently because of latency issues (works generally fine on a dummy, but in savage last night it only worked like 30% of the time max), is it a dps increase to switch the duality AE combo to the middle of the opener and mutilate to the end? Aka is missing a fully buffed AE with duality worse than missing a fully buffed mutilate in TA? I'd guess so, but since I'm not too much of a math genius, especially when buffs/debuffs/dots are involved, I thought I'd ask... :D

Well, not a math genious myself but...
Mutilate gains 36 extra potency damage from TA.
While Duality AE gains 64.

Have you tried not using double ogcds and using Kassatsu Shuriken instead of Kassatsu Raiton? You should have plenty of time to fit 5 gcds in with no trouble O__o

It is a fact , the ninja is a broken class, agro skills are crap and no reason to exist , there is no problem of agro generation with tanks , TA does not increase the overall dps at the end of a raid and the chance of error is very high. Error is equal to lose dps . The logic says to not take the ninja in progression like SA3, a group with BLM , DRK , MNK will do much better dps work , than a group with BLM , DRK , NIN. Its a FACT YOSHIDA is wrong ..... ( warrior 2.1)

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Originally Posted by Fellesarah

It is a fact , the ninja is a broken class, agro skills are crap and no reason to exist , there is no problem of agro generation with tanks , TA does not increase the overall dps at the end of a raid and the chance of error is very high. Error is equal to lose dps . The logic says to not take the ninja in progression like SA3, a group with BLM , DRK , MNK will do much better dps work , than a group with BLM , DRK , NIN. Its a FACT YOSHIDA is wrong ..... ( warrior 2.1)

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Please stop spreading this misinformation in multiple threads :(

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Originally Posted by Fellesarah

It is a fact

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And... the proof? Ó_ö?

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Originally Posted by Arkenne

And... the proof? Ó_ö?

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There is none we won't know if there really are any issues with ninja for awhile. Other then aoe,tp and the stupid trick attack situation
Progression isn't over nor do we know how all the melee scale yet

I like NIN anyway and I've yet to find a real practical reason to think NIN is gimped at all :|

Ok .. One boss fight 3 dps one fight 3 min simulation BLM , DRK (DRG sorry edited) , MNK same average gear lvl

3*900 (here is a average dps for ilvl 170) +180 (seconds)= 486.000 damage done

Ninja at same average gear ilvl do 750 dps .... (average value from data)

now (2*900+750)*180 = 459.000 damage done but TA do 10% more dps , in 180 seconds = 2 TA up

459.000 + (2*900+750)*20(seconds)*0,1 = 459.000 +5100 = 464.100

486.000 - 464.100 = 21.900 damage lost

but TA has is a 3 stage ninjutsu I need to compile success chance too ?

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Originally Posted by Arkenne

Well, not a math genious myself but...
Mutilate gains 36 extra potency damage from TA.
While Duality AE gains 64.

Have you tried not using double ogcds and using Kassatsu Shuriken instead of Kassatsu Raiton? You should have plenty of time to fit 5 gcds in with no trouble O__o

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I use shuriken exclusively in the opener and most of the time in general (unless foe's is up), EU lag is real. :( Which oGCD to leave out then if I don't double weave? I guess jugulate?

Opener I use is like this: SE (B4B+IR), GS (pot), DE (suiton), SE (TA+kassatsu), SF (shuriken), mutilate (DwaD), SE (mug+jugulate), GS (duality), AE

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Originally Posted by Fellesarah

Ok .. One boss fight 3 dps one fight 3 min simulation BLM , DRK (DRG sorry edited) , MNK same average gear lvl

3*900 (here is a average dps for ilvl 170) +180 (seconds)= 486.000 damage done

Ninja at same average gear ilvl do 750 dps .... (average value from data)

now (2*900+750)*180 = 459.000 damage done but TA do 10% more dps , in 180 seconds = 2 TA up

459.000 + (2*900+750)*20(seconds)*0,1 = 459.000 +5100 = 464.100

486.000 - 464.100 = 21.900 damage lost

but TA has is a 3 stage ninjutsu I need to compile success chance too ?

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Other then the dps numbers being wrong I feel like this math is over complicating things can someone else try to explain this post to me in an easier to digest way it's 4 am here. or if the math makes no sense give me the info of how much of a raid increase trick attack is on a dummy. Want to know if it's changed from lvl 50

If you get my same lag (ping of 109~130 when all ok) then try with:

(Suiton) > SE (B4B + IR) > GS(pot) > DE(Kassatsu) > SE(TA) > SF(Shuriken) > Mutilate(DwaD) > SE(Mug) > GS(Duality) > AE(Jugulate)

On Bold the changes. Try to see if you can fit it in like that and then see if you can double weave Mug and Jugulate or TA and Kas individually.

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Originally Posted by Pluvia

Other then the dps numbers being wrong I feel like this math is over complicating things can someone else try to explain this post to me in an easier to digest way it's 4 am here.

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Well, it seems that for them the ilvl 170 BLM, DRG or MNK do 900 ST damage in 3 minutes each while NIN does 750 for whatever reason...
Theeen presents that 3 non-NIN DPS doing 900 ST for 180 seconds would be 486k damage

Now comes the weird shit...
That if they we take a NIN magically the ST dies from 900x3 to 750+900x2, that for 180 seconds means a total of 459k damage.
Then they say that since TA do a 10% more damage, and has a duration of 10 seconds, in 180 seconds TA is up 2 times, lets just say that the first TA happens 20 seconds into battle and yes, it will only pop 2 times.

So to the previously mentioned 459k damage done in 3 minutes because we included the NIN, they added the 20 seconds of TA uptime and the 0.1 modifier, presenting that the 2 master DPS + that NIN do 5.1k damage, adding it up means 464.1k damage in total for 3 minutes of battle with a party composition in which you are including a NIN.

Finally comparing the previous 486k to the 464.1k for the grand total of 21.9k damage loss over 3 minutes.

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Originally Posted by Pluvia

Other then the dps numbers being wrong I feel like this math is over complicating things can someone else try to explain this post to me in an easier to digest way it's 4 am here. or if the math makes no sense give me the info of how much of a raid increase trick attack is on a dummy. Want to know if it's changed from lvl 50

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TA is a 1.67% increase to the group across the board, conservatively it is a 100 DPS increase for the group. DRG are not over 100 DPS higher than NIN from the parses in savage I have seen. The math you quoted is making it very complicated when it is a very simple calculation.

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Originally Posted by Arkenne

If you get my same lag (ping of 109~130 when all ok) then try with:

(Suiton) > SE (B4B + IR) > GS(pot) > DE(Kassatsu) > SE(TA) > SF(Shuriken) > Mutilate(DwaD) > SE(Mug) > GS(Duality) > AE(Jugulate)

On Bold the changes. Try to see if you can fit it in like that and then see if you can double weave Mug and Jugulate or TA and Kas individually.

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I prefer not to save the Duality + AE until last, maybe just a preference but if there is any lag I would rather miss the 10% buffed Mutilate than 10% buff Duality AE. I know not exactly what you were discussing here with the double oGCD weaving but just nit picking at the order during the opener.

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Originally Posted by Subucnimorning

A preference for order in lag

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Well, GCDs arent affected by lag as much as mudras, they are affected alright, but so long its under 300 its not that bad. AE does fit in just fine, just not very recommendable to use double weaving.

Your point is valid of course, just saying that if there is lag, simply don't double weave oGCDs cuz you will undoubtly clip on the GCDs and lose the TA window for the 5th GCD.

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Originally Posted by Subucnimorning

TA is a 1.67% increase to the group across the board, conservatively it is a 100 DPS increase for the group. DRG are not over 100 DPS higher than NIN from the parses in savage I have seen. The math you quoted is making it very complicated when it is a very simple calculation.

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Meh looking over it now that I've had sleep not only is the math overcomplicated and it also doesn't take into account all of Drgs utility either.

so..i got new gear this week and actualy have 2 sets atm. crit build and det...both doing equal dps, the crit build has higher burst, det more constant dps numbers. any one else having the same results? i am trying to see how i should go about gearing myself since det took a heavy blow recently and i know crit is king on the other classes atm.

THANK YOU SO MUCH!! After reading this guide, I feel much more confident in my abilities as a ninja! Just have to finish leveling DRG! THIS GUIDE IS AWESOMESAUCE!:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:

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Originally Posted by Fellesarah

Ok .. One boss fight 3 dps one fight 3 min simulation BLM , DRK (DRG sorry edited) , MNK same average gear lvl

3*900 (here is a average dps for ilvl 170) +180 (seconds)= 486.000 damage done

Ninja at same average gear ilvl do 750 dps .... (average value from data)

now (2*900+750)*180 = 459.000 damage done but TA do 10% more dps , in 180 seconds = 2 TA up

459.000 + (2*900+750)*20(seconds)*0,1 = 459.000 +5100 = 464.100

486.000 - 464.100 = 21.900 damage lost

but TA has is a 3 stage ninjutsu I need to compile success chance too ?

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Did you just make up these number or nah? I was doing 900ish dps at 170 and was doing 1050 - 1100 ish dps at 180 with ravana weapon. By your logic I would have gained 350 dps in 10 ilvls.... or your numbers are wrong which is actually the case here because I have a couple ninja buddies and we regularly parse for fun and have never seen that much of disparity unless the rotation isn't being done properly. On top of that the "success chance" of TA is completely subjective. I have mudra lag and have no issue landing TA consistently with the rare miss being when the tank jerks the mob to the side or during a phase change/boss jump. I have to agree with the other guys who are saying stop spreading misinformation for no reason. You are entitled to your opinion on ninja but lets not pretend that's fact or objective truth. A good ninja can carry their weight on the dps charts.

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Originally Posted by Dante_V

Did you just make up these number or nah?

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They pulled them out their backside.

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Originally Posted by Pluvia

Meh looking over it now that I've had sleep not only is the math overcomplicated and it also doesn't take into account all of Drgs utility either.

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Yeah it doesn't take into affect Battle Litany and Astro damage boost while TA is active so it actually is higher than that 1.67% figure, but it was just to illustrate how wrong the numbers were.

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Originally Posted by Subucnimorning

Yeah it doesn't take into affect Battle Litany and Astro damage boost while TA is active so it actually is higher than that 1.67% figure, but it was just to illustrate how wrong the numbers were.

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It's also worth noting that 1.67% would only be true if TA would buff the average dps of the party by 10% for 10 seconds every minute, which is not the case. It buffs everyones opener when all offensive CD's are up, and usually during the fight everyone will try to get the most out of it, be it the SMN using tridisaster + contagion under dwt to snapshot the buff. This makes it so that it's quite a bit more than 1,67%.

What kind of dummy parses are folks hitting at i190 with the Eso weapons? I'm trying to improve my numbers and I want to get some comparisons. I'm currently hitting around 1200-1220 with no food/pots/party. I'm also wondering the best opener, given that I've heard it's bad to Suiton mid-opener now due to Armor Crush so I do it at the beginning. I saw the link in the opener to a visual guide via Google spreadsheets but it's kinda hard for me to read.

Is it worth holding onto TA or Duality/DWaD so that they all line up? Or should they be used whenever ready.

Also, im surprised so many are using TA>SF. There was a lot of discussion in 2.0 that if you did a move too quickly after TA that the vuln up debuff wouldnt actually be active.

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Originally Posted by Sigmakan

Is it worth holding onto TA or Duality/DWaD so that they all line up? Or should they be used whenever ready.

Also, im surprised so many are using TA>SF. There was a lot of discussion in 2.0 that if you did a move too quickly after TA that the vuln up debuff wouldnt actually be active.

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That's why I generally do TA > Kassatsu, because no matter what I do next, the debuff will be active. Regarding TA and the ogcd's, don't hold on to them. Some will line up naturally, others not so much, but holding them is a dps loss. Duality is a bit of an exception if you have no war though, because you wouldn't use it on DE but save it for the next AC/AE.

Hello everyone,

So i was wondering what dps are you doing on faust with the 200 weapons. I'm 190 ilvl and i'm doing 1150 ish on faust. I feel like I should do 1300 or something. I'm with a DRG / BLM / BRD. And i'm usually last or before the last. (it been only 2 weeks i'm playing ninja now).

Thanks for your input :)

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Originally Posted by Yunnae

Hello everyone,

So i was wondering what dps are you doing on faust with the 200 weapons. I'm 190 ilvl and i'm doing 1150 ish on faust. I feel like I should do 1300 or something. I'm with a DRG / BLM / BRD. And i'm usually last or before the last. (it been only 2 weeks i'm playing ninja now).

Thanks for your input :)

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With or without food/pot? Do you have a WAR in your party or do you have to keep up DE? What does your opener look like? For reference, I have the exact same gear except for the gloves (i190 gordian), and last raid I parsed 1270 on Faust with flint caviar and WAR in the party, didn't use a pot though.
I also wanna note that I have quite some mudra lag (sitting in the EU and on PS4, so no VPN), thus I'm using shuriken exclusively. With pot and better circumstances 1300+ should be easily obtainable.

Regarding being last in dps on Faust, is this total dps or incoming dps on Faust? Because if it's total dps, DRG and BRD numbers get inflated quite a bit (same with SMN and MNK) by aoe hitting adds. BLM and NIN should be pretty close with similar gear in my experience though with one or the other being slightly ahead depending on crit rng.

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Originally Posted by Yunnae

Hello everyone,

So i was wondering what dps are you doing on faust with the 200 weapons. I'm 190 ilvl and i'm doing 1150 ish on faust. I feel like I should do 1300 or something. I'm with a DRG / BLM / BRD. And i'm usually last or before the last. (it been only 2 weeks i'm playing ninja now).

Thanks for your input :)

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Same set up. Pld and Drk tanks. Eating Baked Papira Pira or w/e it is and using xpots I pulled 1284. ilvl 191. I only use raiton in the opener due to bard buff the rest of the time it's Fuma. Standard opener of using suiton pre pull. TA > Kassatsu right before Shadowfang. Standard oGCD spamming from here on using duality with AE. Use trick attack again once off cooldown. I am nailing this rotation. Putting buffs up with 2 or less seconds left and refreshing huton with 5 or so seconds. I don't believe you can parse much higher than this at this ilvl without a warrior and machinist. If you're parsing 1150, you're doing fine.

new parse at i201. been consistently sitting around 1350 on the dummy after multiple parses. could easily reach 1400+ with warrior imo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBY-8KNp13w

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0:38:42
Q: Ninja has become a very busy job with the addition of directional-based actions. Do you plan to make any adjustments that make it a bit easier to play ninja?

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A: As I just mentioned, we've only just started the 3.x patch series, and the level 60 cap will continue for a while. Back during 2.0, rotations weren't perfected as soon as players hit level 50, and the same holds true now. It will become easier as players continue researching and experimenting. Additionally, having played at the level 50 cap for so long, I understand the feeling of wanting to master the jobs and be able to play as you did at that time. However, we’d like to hear your feedback after playing a bit more, and trying out Alexander: Gordias (Savage).

One thing I would like to note, however, when playing on a gamepad the amount of cross hotbar space is lacking, and this is one aspect that makes it feel like you are busier. I’ve gotten word that Minagawa, our lead UI designer, is working on a new feature he refers to as a “double cross hotbar.”

Again, we'll be making fine adjustments to jobs overall in Patch 3.05, and after implementing Alexander: Gordias (Savage) we will continue to address job adjustments as necessary. As I said earlier, the level cap will remain at 60 for a while, so please keep providing us with feedback.

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do i'm the only one feeling yoshida didn't answer the question? because soo far it's true that ninja is one of the most demanding jobs (if not the most). let's face it the cycle is not smooth and can receive some love in terms of cd that miss match, we can argue that the jobs deal decent damage, but let's be honest the dragoon and monk need less mental effort for maintain the same if not better dps.

what i read is don't try to be too fast at get better to play your jobs or think a new way to play that match the controler, when it was not the question asked. people did asked if they plan to make the jobs less demanding and more fun to play than being a chores.

Am I blind or was there no mudra rotation section in the guide? I've been wondering if after the new skills my hatred for mudras would be gone and I'd enjoy ninja once again, if people could point me to the general direction of how mudra rotations work now so I'd be able to decide if I rather lvl up drg or nin next