Poll: Gear progression, horizontal or vertical?

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

That doesn't meant that there isn't a best set, it just means that you're not skilled enough to use the best set at its full potential.

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If 99% of the population can't and whenever someone gets flamed for dying in that gear, BiS loses its meaning no?

It's like having triple weakness, healers are gonna hate you

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Originally Posted by Sylkis

If 99% of the population can't and whenever someone gets flamed for dying in that gear, BiS loses its meaning no?

It's like having triple weakness, healers are gonna hate you

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Not really, no. It just means that only 1% of the population is good enough to use the best gear.

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Originally Posted by Sylkis

If 99% of the population can't and whenever someone gets flamed for dying in that gear, BiS loses its meaning no?

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99% of the population can't what?

BiS doesn't lose its meaning. It is BiS for a reason, whether you make use of it or not is up to your individual skill level. In this "horizontal" definition they are using BiS will be based, not on your optimal stats universally, but rather the optimal stats/bonuses/procs different pieces of gear provide for individual fights.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

Not really, no. It just means that only 1% of the population is good enough to use the best gear.

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So if 99% of the population don't have a BiS, isn't that what horizontal wants to achieve?

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Originally Posted by Sylkis

So if 99% of the population don't have a BiS, isn't that what horizontal wants to achieve?

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They do have a BiS, they're just not skilled enough to use it to its fullest extent.

And if the aim of horizontal progression is having 99% of the playerbase not have BiS gear, horizontal progression should be stuck where the sun doesn't shine.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

They do have a BiS, they're just not skilled enough to use it to its fullest extent.

And if the aim of horizontal progression is having 99% of the playerbase not have BiS gear, horizontal progression should be stuck where the sun doesn't shine.

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So basicly your saying that Gear > Skill? I suppose, but yes. Horizontal Progression would probably mean that they might not have BiS for different encounters, however what they will have is unique playstyles, which makes them better skillfully. Skill can go over gear if its wieldy enough.

There's going to be a BiS either way. I'd like vertical to cap and then horizontal from there on, but it's sort of hard to imagine what horizontal progression would be like in this game.

I'd prefer horizontal though because I can customize my play better since I'm not really about optimal play as much as having fun.

The problem with the current gear progression is this; it changes nothing about the game meta for current content, invalidates old content, and causes "dead" zones that they have to shoehorn new incentives/requirements into post-release to keep players going back.

Every Job plays exactly the same as the instant you dinged 50 - regardless of item level. There is no "play-style", no significant change, and no growth beyond "more of the same" even as you progress through the item levels and that is pretty boring in my opinion.

FFXIV isn't just Vertical growth it's Verticle Linear growth and changes nothing about the game's meta.

The current "treadmill" is shortsighted. What happens to older "endgame" once the majority of players have moved on and the content no longer has incentives for them? It becomes a dead space - wasted data.

I worry about how quickly content has atrophied - this is a problem that will continue to effect the game for it's entire life cycle. Depth is important.

What we're talking about here isn't just "Do we want X method of gear?" it's a fundamental problem with the core model of the game. Character progression needs a lot more depth. Content needs to remain relevant longer. Materia, Gear, and Stats need to be a lot more dynamic than they are currently or the game will (and does) get stale.

FFXIV is a Roleplaying game - it needs to evolve and add some depth and meat to it's core systems.

Suggestions:

FFXI - Direct Character Growth & Customization Merit Point System

WoW - Gear Growth & Magical Enhancement Enchants

TL2 - Gems (Materia System +1) Socketables


Peh "horizontal" or "vertical" how about we talk about the systems lack of overall depth instead?

Meaningful character growth please.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

So basicly your saying that Gear > Skill?

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*rolls eyes*

BiS means that said piece of gear is the best gear for that slot. It has zero to do with player skill. Not sure why this concept is so hard for people to understand.

In a perfect world, Horizontal progression would mean that you had several options to reach the same peak performance. In reality there is always a best set for everything.

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Originally Posted by Dhex

I worry about how quickly content has atrophied - this is a problem that will continue to effect the game for it's entire life cycle. Depth is important.

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There's always two sides of that story. Yes, content in FFXI was relevant far longer than it is in FFXIV, but do we really want to go back to doing Dynamis/Kings for years? This is more an issue for new players than it is for the old ones. I for one would be happy to never see Garuda Ex ever again.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

*rolls eyes*

BiS means that said piece of gear is the best gear for that slot. It has zero to do with player skill. Not sure why this concept is so hard for people to understand.

In a perfect world, Horizontal progression would mean that you had several options to reach the same peak performance. In reality there is always a best set for everything.



There's always two sides of that story. Yes, content in FFXI was relevant far longer than it is in FFXIV, but do we really want to go back to doing Dynamis/Kings for years? This is more an issue for new players than it is for the old ones. I for one would be happy to never see Garuda Ex ever again.

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Yeah, I'm saying that there are encounters, and bosses where something will be BiS, then another place where it won't be. Doesn't mean it still won't be a bad piece of gear.

For example: If I was fighting 3 creatures, X% chance to proc X when attacked would be 3 times better. However 1v1 with a boss it won't be as good but will still be a good item. However the other parts of the item are still good as well. So its not bad.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

*rolls eyes*
BiS means that said piece of gear is the best gear for that slot. It has zero to do with player skill. Not sure why this concept is so hard for people to understand.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

They do have a BiS, they're just not skilled enough to use it to its fullest extent.

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Btw 1.23 had -hp gear

I would like a hybrid but if there is only one option like now...I am glad it is vertical. I agree with the OP that I do hate it when iLv120 WOD gear is better than Dreadworm...that crap has to stop. I know they are trying to make it so that gear can be obtained from multiple places for players but sometimes it does not work out so well. Right now Bards have their chest piece and boots and pants that are BIS for the most part and then the Dread is just for Glamour if you like it. I can see making one piece that way or so but not too much please. I wish almost that sets that went together were the best...Like if you got all the Dread set you got an extra bonus for having the whole set collected. You could do this for Ironworks also but make it lower so that Dread is still top.

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Originally Posted by Dhex

The current "treadmill" is shortsighted. What happens to older "endgame" once the majority of players have moved on and the content no longer has incentives for them? It becomes a dead space - wasted data.

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Which is exactly what happens in horizontal progression too. You farm the content until you have your "horizontal" upgrade (hint if its an upgrade, as in makes you stronger/more effective its vertical). Then it's ignored content.

True Horizontel progression does not make you, in anyway stronger or more effective, otherwise it is vertical. Or at least diagonal.Diagonal is, in a way a misnomer also as anything which makes you stronger, faster, or more effective is a vertical increase.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Which is exactly what happens in horizontal progression too. You farm the content until you have your "horizontal" upgrade (hint if its an upgrade, as in makes you stronger/more effective its vertical). Then it's ignored content.

True Horizontel progression does not make you, in anyway stronger or more effective, otherwise it is vertical. Or at least diagonal.Diagonal is, in a way a misnomer also as anything which makes you stronger, faster, or more effective is a vertical increase.

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If you have it set up you can have both horizontal and vertical progression, just make a variety of cool gear sets.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

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If you have it set up you can have both horizontal and vertical progression, just make a variety of cool gear sets.

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And what content are you going to put all these "cool sets" in? . There has to be a reason to continue to run hard content to prolong the content between patches. So equal gear has to go into equal difficulty content which has to be created, which takes time. Time away from everything else, or slows down content production substantially based on how many "cool sets" you think there should be.

once they drop ps support and focus on PC they could have more headroom for things like this, i just hope they know that the powercreep path IMO is not very sustainable..

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

And what content are you going to put all these "cool sets" in? . There has to be a reason to continue to run hard content to prolong the content between patches. So equal gear has to go into equal difficulty content which has to be created, which takes time. Time away from everything else, or slows down content production substantially based on how many "cool sets" you think there should be.

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Rare Drops in Dungeons, Common Drops in Raids, Rare Drops in Trials? In Everquest II there were about 70 pieces of unique gear.

Every dungeon for example can have its own pieces with different sets so you need to do different dungeons and get the pieces you want. Or the rare drop. Ect ect.

I for one believe that every set and every piece should be uniquely crafted.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

GW2 has no "Horizontal System" Berserker gear is the best gear due to the kind of content it is. Horizontal System doesn't work without roles. So - no, its not a game we want.

Horizontal System shouldn't be balanced, it should be around the kind of playstyle you want.

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So you turn it from a game where all jobs are viable for all content to stacking the best job because they are no langer balanced with your idea, thus it turns into FFXI where, if you didnt have a geared FOTM job, you didn't get to clear the content?

And you wonder why people think your ideas are bad.....

It had those points, where at launch, PLD was more effective than WAR in blinding coil, so WAR was excluded. DRG was sub optimal in Final coil due to low magic resist and heavy magic damage AE, so they were excluded. They where fixed, they are perfectly viable now for all content. SMN is getting modified due it being less effective than BLM in a lot of content and thus will be as viable.

Maybe if you could think of the overall picture instead of just yourself, even you would start to see how dumb an idea that is.

BTW GW2 sucks :P

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Originally Posted by MagnamStyle

once they drop ps support and focus on PC they could have more headroom for things like this, i just hope they know that the powercreep path IMO is not very sustainable..

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First of all, this has nothing to do with the PS3.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Rare Drops in Dungeons, Common Drops in Raids, Rare Drops in Trials? In Everquest II there were about 70 pieces of unique gear.

Every dungeon for example can have its own pieces with different sets so you need to do different dungeons and get the pieces you want. Or the rare drop. Ect ect.

I for one believe that every set and every piece should be uniquely crafted.

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So you want same level of gear in easier content as the hardest? Then why bother doing the hardest content? Also putting a rare needed drop in a dungeon will just increase expnentially the cherry picking queue in progress to maximise the number of kills on that one boss to decrease the time to acquire the item.

Try harder.

If you want to playan MMO with EQ2s system of loot, then play EQ2, as it seems to have exactly what you want. Stop trying to change FFXIV to your terrible ideas and play something which fits them already.

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Originally Posted by MagnamStyle

once they drop ps support

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I doubt they will drop PS4 support anytime soon, and by "soon" I mean soon©.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

So you turn it from a game where all jobs are viable for all content to stacking the best job because they are no langer balanced with your idea, thus it turns into FFXI where, if you didnt have a geared FOTM job, you didn't get to clear the content?

And you wonder why people think your ideas are bad.....

It had those points, where at launch, PLD was more effective than WAR in blinding coil, so WAR was excluded. DRG was sub optimal in Final coil due to low magic resist and heavy magic damage AE, so they were excluded. They where fixed, they are perfectly viable now for all content. SMN is getting modified due it being less effective than BLM in a lot of content and thus will be as viable.

That sounds more like class issues then gear issues. It was fixed.

Maybe if you could think of the overall picture instead of just yourself, even you would start to see how dumb an idea that is.

BTW GW2 sucks :P

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I didn't say it didn't. However your talking about classes, not items. Of course a better class would be prefered, however that doesn't mean it cannot do it. I am sure Warrior at the time did something better then Paladin.

However, GW2 does suck. There was really no choice, berserker gear was just the best.

I don't think that was a good designed game because it had a lot of problems. My examples come from Everquest mostly where the design worked VERY well.

However, Everquest and FFXI are different games (very different) then FFXIV. I am saying it can work very well and make it very fun. Everquest II's unique gearing system is one of the reasons it was popular for a bit. "Oh? A game where I have choice in my character's design? I don't have to be like everyone else?"

FFXI wasn't a very good game, so giving examples from that game isn't very.. convincing.

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Originally Posted by MagnamStyle

once they drop ps support and focus on PC they could have more headroom for things like this, i just hope they know that the powercreep path IMO is not very sustainable..

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please, explain how the game being on ps3/4 is preventing horizontal gear? inb4 easy route saying it has to do with character data size.

Horizontal. I prefer gear with unique attributes where different builds can be made for cool stuff to happen. i200 > i180 is very boring and bland, not to mention nothing ever changes other than "Oh, my gear isn't good enough to participate in this event feasibly." or "Oh, my gear is too good for this event, guess I'll just solo tank in Sword Oath."

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

FFXI wasn't a very good game, so giving examples from that game isn't very.. convincing.

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Final Fantasy XI is getting it's last content patch in November of this year. It lasted 14 years with expansions and content patches. Do you think FFXIV will still be getting new content in 2027? It's possible but seems unlikely to me, 14 years is a long time for a bad game to maintain a profitable subscriber base.

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

Final Fantasy XI is getting it's last content patch in November of this year. It lasted 14 years with expansions and content patches. Do you think FFXIV will still be getting new content in 2027? It's possible but seems unlikely to me, 14 years is a long time for a bad game to maintain a profitable subscriber base.

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Huh? I actually don't know anyone who plays it and never heard of the game. It apparently had 200k subscribers in 2006. That.. isn't very successful. I mean if it only had 200k in 2006, I'd imagine its like nothing now.

I mean, the SWG Emulator has more subscribers then that. "NOW"

Just because something still exists doesn't really mean its good. However - just because it doesn't have many players doesn't mean its bad either. I just... I don't hear anything of that game.

Which, isn't a good sign.

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Originally Posted by Kaze3434

please, explain how the game being on ps3/4 is preventing horizontal gear? inb4 easy route saying it has to do with character data size.

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Console limitations is certainly the problem of many things in ffxiv, but gear progression? I dont see it either.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Maybe if you could think of the overall picture instead of just yourself, even you would start to see how dumb an idea that is.

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Huh? Arent you one of those in this thread that are arguing because of your own bias , rather in response of arguments?

Good arguments have been given for and against horizontal, yours are not amongst them.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

I'm not speaking for everyone, but thanks for the insinuation ;) Not everyone hordes gear for glamour, everyone likely won't for this. But to say that no-one will and that it won't bloat any inventories. That is denial.

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Perhaps youd like to read the post you quoted again.


Why are you repeating my argument and making it sound like its yours?

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

Why are you repeating my argument and making it sound like its yours?

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Because what you were accusing me of was drivel with no basis. Maybe you should re-read the post of mine you quoted and then re-read your response. ;)

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Huh? I actually don't know anyone who plays it and never heard of the game. It apparently had 200k subscribers in 2006. That.. isn't very successful. I mean if it only had 200k in 2006, I'd imagine its like nothing now.

I mean, the SWG Emulator has more subscribers then that. "NOW"

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200k subscribers is a LOT, especially post-WoW.
People just seem to confuse "accounts" with "subscriber numbers."
F2P games can count accounts, as once you make one you're part of their business. Some people have multiple accounts. Since XI actually DELETES inactive accounts (or at least, they did) then they can't use this data. SWG Emulator DOES use this data, since they don't HAVE subscribers.
P2P games have to count subscribers.
With 200k subscribers, XI was VERY successful. To this day it's still SE's most profitable Final Fantasy ever.
Just because you haven't heard of it, doesn't mean it's not popular.
Also, how the heck can you call it "not a good game" when you apparently haven't played it?

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Rare Drops in Dungeons, Common Drops in Raids, Rare Drops in Trials? In Everquest II there were about 70 pieces of unique gear.

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You...probably weren't around for the early days of the game I take it.
See, to get to that "horizontal progression" took years and years of expansions and new content. When the game started and up through Desert of Flames, the game was pretty much exactly like XIV is now, with the exception of a few special "effect" items that were damn near required (looking at you, manastone!) to do endgame content.
There were no options. You HAD to have this gear. And let's not even get into how unimaginative the armor designs were (the lvl 40, 50, and 55 plate armor looked EXACTLY THE SAME, just tinted a little different)
There's a reason they felt the need to add an Appearance Slot (probably one of the better ones out there IMO...even if most of the options looked meh)
Oh and EQ2 did vertical progression as well. Every expansion, with the exception of gimmick items, all your old gear became instantly outdated. Hell my lvl 50 raid gear was replaced instantly by Mastercrafted (yes, CRAFTED) lvl 55 gear in a week. A practice they only really stopped when they slowed down raising the level cap, and even then it wasn't "sidegrades" as much as "inclinegrades"
And that's not even getting into how they felt the need to add a quest to strip the effect off your Mythic weapon because, while the effect for many classes was VERY good, the stats were outdated the very next expansion.

For PVE i like it vertical. For PvP i think gear should not matter.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

You...probably weren't around for the early days of the game I take it.

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I played EQ2 from early access after switching with what SOE did with SWGs combat upgrade. Played the first expansion also. There was a very linear progression path. Even to raid you had to have a specific level of weapon to be even able to hit the thing.

I do remember having to literally walk from Fallen Gate to freeport because of all the copprt coins (before they auto upgraded to a higher currency :P Or the trains in the gate, party running towards the exit with half the zone trailing behind, which, on their way back to spawn slaughtered all the XP parties on the way :P

Shared XP debt too :S

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

Huh? Arent you one of those in this thread that are arguing because of your own bias , rather in response of arguments?

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I gave realistic reasons behind my arguements against them. Developer time in creating content to put the extra gear in that has to be on a level of difficulty with the gear they are adding to. So that would be 3-4 raids for example, increased dungeons, and other content. Content that takes time to design, create and implement. Plus each set has to be multiplied by the different races to make the gear for each of them. Cant put a Roe in lalafell sized armor. Which increases the development time significantly.

Not to mention designing of the stats on the sets, balance between to the sets to not make any useless, otherwise there is no point in adding them. Which involves extended testing.

If you are ok with content updates once a year, good for you. FFXI had extended periods between content updates by making the requirements insanely high with lock outs. (Im looking at you relic and empy weapons. Or putting the drop rates below 5%. Less than 2% for some. With high requirements to even attempt the content with the insanely low drop chance. Dynamis, Salvage, Nyzul, Assaults, etc, You were running the exact same content for literally years.

I prefer new scenery, new gear and new mobs to punch in the face every 3 months over having to grind the exact same content 1000s of times.

Would be very surprised if the majority would be against that idea.

It's all nice and danady to ask for stuff. But without actually looking into what it would entail.......

Also, heres an update for you. I'm playing and enjoying FFXIV for what it is, not for what it isn't. Why would I want to change it to "EQ2" or FFXI when I have an accoutn with FFXI I can play, and I gave up on EQ2 years ago when it changed from the game I enjoyed, to not liking it.

Gotta laugh, players accuse FFXIV of being a clone (where in reality it is heading in it's own direction) then turn around and ask for the devs to turn it into a clone of something else.

Your turn.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

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Nobody is asking FFXIV to be a clone of another game. They just want high level content to stay relevant for more than 6 months. As player character strength increases the amount of meaningful content dries up. Sure we get new dungeons, trials, and raids but they just replace the previous additions.

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Originally Posted by Catsby

Nobody is asking FFXIV to be a clone of another game. They just want high level content to stay relevant for more than 6 months. As player character strength increases the amount of meaningful content dries up. Sure we get new dungeons, trials, and raids but they just replace the previous additions.

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You know, I also worry about content getting outdated, specially for new players.

But on the other hand, I also agree that it's much better to get new content to do every 3 months, than doing the same stuff for years due to lockouts/poor drop rates. Because that's how you keep the old stuff relevant.

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Originally Posted by Catsby

Nobody is asking FFXIV to be a clone of another game. They just want high level content to stay relevant for more than 6 months. As player character strength increases the amount of meaningful content dries up. Sure we get new dungeons, trials, and raids but they just replace the previous additions.

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So you want to be running the exact same content for a year? 2 years? How long do you think content should be relevant until we can move onto new stuff?

In my opinion 6 months is fine, it keeps things fresh quicker instead of having to farm the same thing over and over and over and over. Also the relevancy of one piece of content is based totally on how long it takes to get the drops from it. If it takes 1 month to get your drops, then the relevancy of that content is 1 month for you. The only way to extend it is to

1) guarantee that it lasts a minimum amount of time by making it require a certain number of runs for a form of currency, and to extend that, limit the times it can be run. 150,000 tokens, 1000 tokens a clear, one run per 24 hours. Guarantees it will last 150 days.
2) make the items have an extrememly low drop rate. eg pony drops from the extreme primals before they increased the drop rate or even lower. But that puts the length of time that it will be relevant down to player luck.

If they started implementing either or both of those ideas for all forms of progression to extend the relevancy of content, how long do you think the playerbase will stick around?

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

I prefer new scenery, new gear and new mobs to punch in the face every 3 months over having to grind the exact same content 1000s of times.

Would be very surprised if the majority would be against that idea.

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If you put it like that.

Or you can put it like this.

Would you want 1 thing to do every 6 months that progresses your character at top tier? Or 12 things to do that progress your character at the top tier?

Would you want the option to do 1 of 20 pieces of content? Or have to choose between 2-3 peices of content every 6 months?

Would you prefer all your work to be negated every 6 months? Or would you prefer it to last 1-2yrs?

DO you want 8hrs of relevant content per week or do you want 60hrs of relevant content per week to do?

FFXI you could do the same content many times, but they added new content it is not like horizontal = no new content. It is just more content added to the already existing content pool.

We do not want a ffxi clone, we want content that is lasting. We want things that are not treated like MOBA seasons. We want to be able to log in and not have to wait for reset each week. We want to be able to log in and have more then Coil soon to be Alexander for top tier progression.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

I don't think that was a good designed game because it had a lot of problems. My examples come from Everquest mostly where the design worked VERY well.

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It worked so well that it didn't have to go free to play...... oh wait!

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

If you put it like that.

Or you can put it like this.

Would you want 1 thing to do every 6 months that progresses your character at top tier? Or 12 things to do that progress your character at the top tier?

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Those extra 11 pieces of content have to be created. So would you happy with content updates once every 3 years? Based on 3 month cycle we are currently at.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

Would you want the option to do 1 of 20 pieces of content? Or have to choose between 2-3 peices of content every 6 months?

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Now we are upto 20 pieces of content. same question as before, but instead 12x3 months, change that 20 x 3 months. Remember they are making content for all aspects. MSQ, 4 person dungeons, 24 person raids, plus the primals and the 8 person raid in a 6 month period, I am being generous giving 3 months.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

Would you prefer all your work to be negated every 6 months? Or would you prefer it to last 1-2yrs?

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I never knew playing games was work, I always saw it as a pastime for enjoyment. I get paid to go to work, where I work. Yes, I'm fine with replacing gear every 6 months. Or I can even use glamor to keep the look of tier of gear I prefer. *gasp*

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

DO you want 8hrs of relevant content per week or do you want 60hrs of relevant content per week to do?

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I can always find things to do in FFXIV, just because others only focus on one part doesn't mean everyone does. I've 4 person dungeons, weekly CT quest, treasure maps, crafting, harvesting, hunting difficult to acquire furniture for my house. Doing fun runs with static,eg 4 BLM stone vigil hard, 8 BLM castrum etc. Golden saucer with chocobo racing etc.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

FFXI you could do the same content many times, but they added new content it is not like horizontal = no new content. It is just more content added to the already existing content pool.

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It isn't that you could, you had no choice if you wanted to improve your gear.Nyzul didn't get fun after the 100th time. It got annoying.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

We do not want a ffxi clone, we want content that is lasting. We want things that are not treated like MOBA seasons. We want to be able to log in and not have to wait for reset each week. We want to be able to log in and have more then Coil soon to be Alexander for top tier progression.

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And to reiterate, all this extra content you want adding takes development time. Also much less content was added to FFXI over the same time period. a HUGE part of the content added to FFXI was copy pasted. Aby, same maps as the normal zones. Dyna, same maps reused, WotG, most maps were reused with a few new ones. If you really break it down FFXI did not have that much content for the time it has been around. It was extended by over the top timesinks. Without those timesinks, not counting JPMs for certain missions (ToAU) the whole of the missions for all the expacs can be cleared in a week. I know, I've done it. Then it is just a matter of repeating content for a ridiculous amount of times to obtain gear.

Horizontal 10 char... Horizontal until expansions, keep relic weapons upgrading on their own paths. Relic, Mythic, Emperial... might as well end result give them different moves or enhancements.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

We do not want a ffxi clone, we want content that is lasting. We want things that are not treated like MOBA seasons. We want to be able to log in and not have to wait for reset each week. We want to be able to log in and have more then Coil soon to be Alexander for top tier progression.

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I couldn't agree more, we have this level sync feature built into the game to keep content relevant even after gear levels rise, but they don't even really use it except for content less than lvl 50. I also think Heavensward shouldn't make 2.0 obsolete, that is someting WoW does and it's a terrible design.

2.0 should be just as fun for people joining the game after heavensward, as it was for everyone in this forum.