The relic weapon quest is OBSCENELY boring...

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Originally Posted by am0n

What amuses me most is that Yoshi said something along the lines of "If it isn't fun, you shouldn't do it." I loved the original Relic quest chain. It wasn't RNG from drops, but was more skill. Once you learned the fights, maybe got a little gear, you could complete it, every time. I wish they'd have made the rest of them similar; require the new primals, different modes of primals, add some new bosses that aren't primals but required for relics (ala Hydra and Chimera).

As a player who just came back to the game after a long break, the current trend of "content" is a bit disheartening. I have no desire to work on my relics past Zenith, not even because there is other stuff available, but because all I see before me is a boring grind.

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Ya, I wish the upgrade process had been much like the original. Especially given that one could spend months of working on the upgrade and the finished product is barely better than the previous version.

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Originally Posted by FranSeara

Warln, we're getting off topic here but... My opinions of weathered weapons: Are for lazy players, who are too lazy to do the relic quest. "Remember these are my opinions!" Shiva weapons: Again takes little skill to get carried by FC of Raid group to get Shiva weapons ( I know, I've played with some FCOB Item 130 Shiva weapon users, who can't beat Shiva Ex in DF, lol) Ironworks weapons: try hard weapons for try hard players ( players that use these in FCOB get a pass here) The Relics wil end up at item level 130-135 so Ironworks users can kiss it!!

ps: I have 3 Zodiac weapons (soon to be 4 then 5) at item level 125 my Sol and Shiva weapons are being used my retainers....LOL

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Like you said, it's off-topic... but I just wanted to add that I understand what you mean about there being no in-between.

They are planning to make some changes to that at least, with the Alexander normal and hard mode... The normal mode is like Coil with echo, and to me that's content that fits right in-between harder and easier content. The hard mode is going to be harder than current coil, which is gonna make some players more happy too.

We have no idea how the rest will be like though... they haven't mentioned if there is going to be a new "Crystal tower", but I doubt the normal mode Alexander is replacing it...

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

Your lack of memory isn't the point.

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The story is very lackluster. Yes if you want to be super technical...there is a little story. A lot apparently if you use your imagination. But a majority of people believe and know that after you get past the first stage of relic, story drops. It does become a fetch quest. And a boring one at that. They could take the relic "quest" out of the game and it wouldn't affect the story at all. Then on top of that, there is zero motivation to do relic. There isn't even motivation to start it. IMO, primal weapons look cooler, most are stronger, and then its exciting to try to get those weapons compared to the "relic quest". That's the point. Its not worth it. Not worth the effort, the boredom. Lets take another stance, what if SE said that in order to get into future raid content, you had to complete relic style quest(farming atmas, atma books, melding, etc) and just when you finally get in, new primal boss drops weapons and gear better than raid content. How would you feel? Would you still do it? probably not.

Lets face it, more people are fed up with this quest than those that are ok with it. And a lot of you people bashing others for their reasons for disliking the relic quest are hypocrites. I have yet to see a thread, a serious one, where people are asking SE to continue making relic weapon quest and other quest exactly like we have it now because its awesome and the best and i enjoyed myself and would do it again every time...no...not one. Cause its a broken way to get others to play old content. Hell, if they even just added new things to old dungeons like random fate boss/type encounters or secret mobs or something. But no....its the same thing every time..and they want you to do this for multiple jobs?! really?

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Originally Posted by QiLymePye

Lets face it, more people are fed up with this quest than those that are ok with it.

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Speak for yourself. Just about everyone in my Free Company and we have close to 100 are doing Relic or have completed Relic. Even new players are beginning or have completed their ATMA phase. They do it and don't whine about it incessantly and I'm talking about casuals and raiders alike. It may not be for you but the fact of the matter is tons of people are doing it. Personally I enjoyed the story line associated with the relic. I have 4 Zodiac i125 weapons and look forward to the new relic quest coming tomorrow.

I've also collected another set of ATMA in the past couple days. I'm not sure if I'll start another but I'm prepared if I feel the urge to do one.

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Originally Posted by QiLymePye

And its also a slap in the face for casuals. First, lest define casual gamer properly. The casual gamer is considered casual because of the time put into game, whether said time is available or just what they want to spend playing game, not because of skill level of game. Casual players are not lemmings or children that just play blindly and are just ok with hitting 2 buttons all day. Casual players are casual because of time invested.

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1,000,000x this.

"It's casual, so it's okay if it's boring!" is not an acceptable answer.

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

1,000,000x this.

"It's casual, so it's okay if it's boring!" is not an acceptable answer.

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then don't do it Get UAT and get a weapon or get a static get together and try for a ilvl130 weapon no one is forcing you to do this.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Speak for yourself. Just about everyone in my Free Company and we have close to 100 are doing Relic or have completed Relic. Even new players are beginning or have completed their ATMA phase. They do it and don't whine about it incessantly and I'm talking about casuals and raiders alike. .

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First off I said most, which means more than half. I don't care if you are doing it, it still doesn't mean you like it, which is what i said. Second, If you had to do the relic quest all over again tomorrow, would you do it? honestly? Cause that's the issue. Yes relic was fun back in the day, but there is no benefit for doing it now other than being an "elitist" and just wanting to brag about having the time to spend doing it. Once again, its not about skill, its about time.

Now if you like it, more power to you. But there are plenty of people that would chose to do something else in this game than relic because its not worth the time invested. What are you doing your relics for? Glamour? Bragging rights? congrats!!! you have now achieved Novus for every class/job. For what? what are you gonna use the weapons for? People with limited time want to maximize the time they have to get an enjoyable experience from the game. Most casual players play casually, which means they don't have hours to spend grinding for atma playing the same dungeon over and over and over having to wait for 20-30 min queue times in between...come on. Like i said, go make a thread about how you love the way SE made the relic quest. I've yet to see one, but I see lots of people complaining about them.

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Originally Posted by QiLymePye

But a majority of people believe and know that after you get past the first stage of relic, story drops.

Lets face it, more people are fed up with this quest than those that are ok with it.

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Originally Posted by QiLymePye

First off I said most, which means more than half.

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These are some nice made up statistics you got there. Did people complain about the grind? Sure, but since the relic quest began I never once, not once, heard someone complain about the storyline until this thread. On the contrary I've heard and was a part of multiple discussions talking about the implications of the quest chain on Aether, Materia, Spiritbonding, etc. So quite simply I reject your assumptions you made to support your own opinion as what they are. More opinions, and this thread is hardly large enough to justify your opinion either. It's also the only thread I've ever seen in the last year bringing this issue up whereas I've seen dozens complaining about Atma, or hunts, or other actual issues the player base really has a problem with.

When you say things like this..

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Originally Posted by QiLymePye

There isn't even motivation to start it. IMO, primal weapons look cooler, most are stronger, and then its exciting to try to get those weapons compared to the "relic quest".

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it makes me think you aren't paying attention either. Jalzahn wanted to recreate a Zodiac weapon of legend with you help. Did you even try watching the cutscenes? No wonder you don't think there was a story.

You want to have a real conversation about how to improve the quest? Let's do it. Several posts back I actually asked specific things that might have continued a real conversation to fix this problem, but the questions were ignored. As usual people would rather argue their opinion as right instead of actually meeting in the middle and discussing the real problem. It happened just a few posts ago, and to this post not one person has addressed my questions. They continue to pick the one part of an opinion they disagree with and argue it to death ignoring real discussion.

Lastly, yes it's technically story. The reason that is important to acknowledge is simple. How do you expect Square to accurately fix the problems you have with the quest when you white wash it with simple cut downs and can't even properly articulate your problems?

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Yes, it has a story, but I didn't find it engaging and it wasn't what I would have liked.

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Is a far better statement than..

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There is no story at all.

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because it articulates the true grievance of the problem.

Use your words to accurately articulate your issue if you want problems to be properly resolved and to avoid unnecessary argument on the forums.

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Originally Posted by QiLymePye

First off I said most, which means more than half.

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Kindly provide a link to support this statement. It's simply not true. Prove it.

I have all War and Magic classes leveled and yeah guess what I might do another, it really depends upon how busy I'll be upgrading the 4 I have to ilevel 135 weapons.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

However thank you for GLEEFULLY ignoring the rest of my post where I asked deeper questions that might get us somewhere and you instead just try to refuse that one minor point that only supports your opinion anyway. GG. You fail at constructive discussions.

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I answered the rest of your post PAGES ago: WoW already did this and did it BETTER (which makes me sick to even SAY...).

They did it by having players do things for the questline that benefit them in OTHER ways already, like earning VP, running LFRs, etc. Never once did they send you to run a level 30 dungeon or hang out in a level 15 zone because they wanted you there to supplement the content for lower level players (which is an ultra-crappy thing to force players to do).

As has been said, something being "casual" doesn't mean it can be boring, crappy and repetitive and no one has any right to complain.

And as I ALSO said, let us level another class while working on books and it would at least be SOMETHING...

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Originally Posted by XgungraveX

then don't do it Get UAT and get a weapon or get a static get together and try for a ilvl130 weapon no one is forcing you to do this.

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Actually. SE is forcing. You act like its easy to just form a group of like minded individuals that have the same schedule as you and the same goals, etc. Ummm...didn't they add DF because people were having a hard time finding people on their own servers to do dungeons with? Come on man, its so easy to say'''well don't do it then". Its like me only giving you two options when you are hungry...to either go make a weapon to hunt and skin and cook your animal or go rob a bank so you can have money to buy food. Two extremes, no middle. Its like picking your poison...slow painful death or slightly quicker painful death.

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Originally Posted by BreathlessTao

Oh, !@#$% no. I was either smashing my mouse/keyboard so hard they almost broke, or I was so burnt-out I just barely even noticed I can go to another zone.
You mention the keyword yourself: progression. To be more precise - the sense of progression. With Atma, there is none; granted, it's much better now than it was pre-nerf, but the fact still is that you have no idea whether you need to do 100 FATEs for the next one to drop, or just 2, because it's basically simple lottery. The books aren't any more fun either, that's true, but at least you do know where you are with that progression.

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Again though, that was targeted at the concept of the old school grind. The feeling of progression being a huge part of the reward with this model. In this case, perhaps it's that sense of relief that you're one step closer to being done with something you have no idea how long will take to complete. It's somewhat along the same feeling in Coil that people get when, for example, a drop happens that YOU can use and want. Isn't there that sense of relief that not only did you get it, but you have thus "beat" the system by avoiding the unforeseen amount of time it would have otherwise took? That's the old school reward system, which is actually why MMORPGs were so dear to people in the past. It gave you all of these senses and emotions lol. You legitimately celebrate when you beat the odds... usually. Animus does not do this for most people, simply because you can track it (the primary difference between the two).

I agree about being able to track your progress effectively being a lot more friendly (to the extent that you can more or less predict when you'll finish). That's the newer model of MMORPGs. For today's generation, that's kind of what people expect. If it isn't along the lines of how Atma is now, it's too much of a grind. When Atma/Animus first came about, the drop rate was "fine". Alternatives existed (Zenith, followed by Levi EX weapons, was good enough for progression sake) and matched the content difficulty to acquire them. Many people were turned off by the low chance to get Atma, which resulted in a lot of burn out, but that's not exactly the fault of the developers. That is, assuming players don't expect them to baby the player base and be concerned that players will play way too much when they design content... no developer should have to worry about that, unless again, we aim to be babied and think of SE as our parents, always watching out for the poor choices we make. To those of us that lived through the old school grind over a decade ago, we kinda laugh at the fact people still can't control themselves (since that existed back then too).

SE's decision to finally up the Atma drop rate is an example of the proper design philosophy that I was talking about. When there is so much content available, along with very easy to obtain alternatives, the old school grind DOES NOT WORK. Their decision to bring it back again however, with the latter Zodiac stages, just showcases another example of their inability to properly implement it. That's speaking from the outside though. I do not know what limitations they have, what restrictions are in place, exactly how much of a percentage of players are doing old content for relic, etc. But even of those hindrances are legit reasons, it doesn't change the fact that the Relic quest, as a whole, is widely seen as extremely lackluster for what you get out of it (digitally and personally).

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

I'm sorry, but you're thinking of hunts, not raids.

I've run so many 24 man raids that I've earned over half of my weekly poetics doing them and I can safely say that you're either the unluckiest person ever when it comes to queuing or you're exaggerating like crazy.

And you want leisurely grinds? Go fishing. There's no reason for the relic weapon quest to be as boring AND devoid of storyline as it is. You don't seem to understand the fact that something can be both time-consuming AND fun, and not "masochist who enjoys boredom fun" but REAL fun.

I'm surprised there are no pet grinds in FFXIV: many of the mobs in WoW have a .01% chance of dropping a pet, the DEFINITION of boring grind, but it's there for people like you.

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Whoosh. My point is, instead of REMOVING the relic quest that people like myself like. ADD a new one that fits your like. Relics are the ONLY combat class content in the entire game that is a laid back, time consuming grind. Don't take away, add. Ffxi had a very good system for their epic class weapons because they had 3 types of similar calibur. 1, relics, was 99% based on your bank account buying bazillion of ancient currency. 1, empyreams, was through fighting through a million popped notorious monsters where you fought lower tier monsters to get pops for harder ones which dropped pops for harder ones to fight a super monster that dropped 1 item and you needed a great many of those items to make the weapon. The 3rd, mythics, was a huge smorgasbord of events in varying difficulty and a vast collection of alexandrite which you could buy or obtain from a challenging 6man event.

We dont need to delete the current style relic. As tiggy mentioned, there's nothing wrong with the current content, there just needs to be additional content. Just because you may not like it, doesn't mean it should be deleted or your just trading your grievance to someone else.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Kindly provide a link to support this statement. It's simply not true. Prove it.

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A link? really? how about using power of deducing. Just take this community, this forum. Find me a thread of someone glorrifying the relic grind. Not a sarcastic thread, a real one. Like I said, start a thread. And like I said again, if you woke up in the morning and everybody lost their relic weapon and SE said sorry, bad programming. Can't get it back, but hey, you get 6 months free subscription(threw that in there for the people that would say SE would owe us!) would you do the relic quest again today? tell me why you would if you would?

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

Again though, that was targeted at the concept of the old school grind.

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And I think we all get that, but there are infinitely better ways to add old school grinds to an MMO that don't involve gearing progress even one bit.

WoW has some of the most ridiculously long grinds in it (The "Insane" title, for starters), but none of them will affect your gearscore even one bit.

And like I said, WoW's version of this quest took you the entire expansion to complete and did so without being a boring, simplistic grindfest like this is...

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Originally Posted by QiLymePye

Actually. SE is forcing. You act like its easy to just form a group of like minded individuals that have the same schedule as you and the same goals, etc. Ummm...didn't they add DF because people were having a hard time finding people on their own servers to do dungeons with? Come on man, its so easy to say'''well don't do it then". Its like me only giving you two options when you are hungry...to either go make a weapon to hunt and skin and cook your animal or go rob a bank so you can have money to buy food. Two extremes, no middle. Its like picking your poison...slow painful death or slightly quicker painful death.

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Can you explain why are we "forced" to make a Zodiac Braves weapon, exactly?
For me, it is as easy as saying "just don't do it". There is absolutly no content currently available which requires a Zodiac Braves weapon.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

My point is, instead of REMOVING the relic quest that people like myself like. ADD a new one that fits your like.

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Agreed.

I hope they do a fresh quest in 3.0 that has an interesting, involved storyline and objectives that engage instead of copping out with things like sending you slogging through old content.

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Originally Posted by QiLymePye

A link? really? how about using power of deducing.

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How about you stop talking through your hat and prove it. Yeah I'd like a link. Speak for yourself and not the community.

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Originally Posted by QiLymePye

A link? really? how about using power of deducing. Just take this community, this forum. Find me a thread of someone glorrifying the relic grind. Not a sarcastic thread, a real one. Like I said, start a thread. And like I said again, if you woke up in the morning and everybody lost their relic weapon and SE said sorry, bad programming. Can't get it back, but hey, you get 6 months free subscription(threw that in there for the people that would say SE would owe us!) would you do the relic quest again today? tell me why you would if you would?

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The OP in this thread is over 60 likes as well...

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Originally Posted by Izsha

if you think this was the worst grind in any mmo, you haven't played enough mmos

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Lineage 2 leveling says hi

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Originally Posted by Fyce

There is absolutly no content currently available which requires a Zodiac Braves weapon.

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By using this logic, there is no content that requires the use of raid weapons, primal weapons, or tomestone weapons.

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

I answered the rest of your post PAGES ago: WoW already did this and did it BETTER (which makes me sick to even SAY...).

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How did that statement answer in any way the questions I asked? It didn't. I asked the following and this is what I am referring to.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

Also what do people expect in grindy content? A cut scene every so often telling you you're good at grinding? At some point you need to walk away from the NPCs and just do work. What kind of story would even be "epic" in the context of forging a weapon for you?

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They did it by having players do things for the questline that benefit them in OTHER ways already, like earning VP, running LFRs, etc. Never once did they send you to run a level 30 dungeon or hang out in a level 15 zone because they wanted you there to supplement the content for lower level players (which is an ultra-crappy thing to force players to do).

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This would have been closer to an answer than just saying WoW did better. Who cares what it did what matters is how.

You know what we need more of in this thread. What actual things would people do to improve the situation. and less arguing your opinion against someone elses opinions.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

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How about you stop talking through your hat and prove it. Yeah I'd like a link. Speak for yourself and not the community.

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Yourself and others seem to miss out on the idea of deductive reasoning. Like QiLymePye pointed out, there are far more threads that have been created about the dislike of the relic process than those that have been created praising it. You want proof? Do a search and count the number of threads from each point of view.

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Originally Posted by Shadex

Absolute worst idea I have seen in an MMO and I have been around since UO. I did the EQ1 relics and they were fun, nigh impossible but fun. I did the FFXI ones too, took forever but had a sense of accomplishment and made we WANT to do another... This game actually makes me not want to play this game. I choked down the book grind ok whatever, I was helping FC mates anyway. But the materia crap is nothing more than a lazy, piss poor design way to bleed gil from the economy. Zero fun, zero challenge. It's just a money sink. I have no desire to take this any further especially since it is 100x easier to get a better weapon in other ways.

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Totally agree Shadex, Dyvid and many others.

Looking at it in hindsight (and hearing Yoshi P hint at the limited resources of his team), the Relic Quest in FF14 feels very much like:

* Yoshi P: "We don't have the resources to create a REAL, advanced Relic Quest with Unique Dungeons, NMs, Fights, etc., but we need something to keep the players busy... Let's come up with a way to rehash all of our OLD content / systems to save money, and yet still make it a 'Relic Quest'!"

I understand something like FF 11 had way more time and expansion packs to deliver, but as Shadex and others have said, that older Final Fantasy Relic Quest Line was *meaningful* and exciting (except the looong grind (currency)).

I loved going to Dynamis and going to a Side Path, fight an Optional NM Boss, just to get the Drop I needed for my Relic Quest (w/ 63 other players) (e.g., Attestation of Might item). :)

I loved at the end of the Relic Quest, you earned a weapon that was hands down the best out there, with a Unique Weaponskill Attack and Animation(!). That's just badass!

I hope with the resources and success of FF 2.0 so far, that for 3.0 we get more unique challenges and upgrades with our Relic Weapons, to make it more interesting and meaningful.

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Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

Yourself and others seem to miss out on the idea of deductive reasoning. Like QiLymePye pointed out, there are far more threads that have been created about the dislike of the relic process than those that have been created praising it. You want proof? Do a search and count the number of threads from each point of view.

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Oh only your deductive reasoning huh? The number of threads have nothing to do with it. Making generalized statements that more than half the community doesn't like the relic quest and finds it boring doesn't make it so. My experience in world is just the opposite of what is trying to be portrayed here by those of you who find it not worth your time or effort. You're more than welcome to an opinion that you find it boring but don't speak for everyone and certainly don't try and portray some statements as facts when you have none.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

Lineage 2 leveling says hi

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or any of the relic weapons in ff11 i didnt get a chance to complete my mine because i couldnt get into Dynamis.

te

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Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

Yourself and others seem to miss out on the idea of deductive reasoning. Like QiLymePye pointed out, there are far more threads that have been created about the dislike of the relic process than those that have been created praising it. You want proof? Do a search and count the number of threads from each point of view.

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The thread is about the Relic quest being boring. Those threads were complaining about the grind. Two very different topics about a similar issue. This does not support the point you are trying to make, and it doesn't support the notion that people didn't like the story either.

I can not take someone's dislike of oranges to mean they dislike trees just because oranges grow on it. You can hate one part of something without hating all of it. One does not necessarily lead to the other. Your logic is flawed.

You used the word deductive reasoning, I don't think you understand how that actually works since your categorizations between like but different traits are so blurred you can't possible get to a real answer that is usable in the real world.

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Originally Posted by QiLymePye

Actually. SE is forcing. You act like its easy to just form a group of like minded individuals that have the same schedule as you and the same goals, etc. Ummm...didn't they add DF because people were having a hard time finding people on their own servers to do dungeons with? Come on man, its so easy to say'''well don't do it then". Its like me only giving you two options when you are hungry...to either go make a weapon to hunt and skin and cook your animal or go rob a bank so you can have money to buy food. Two extremes, no middle. Its like picking your poison...slow painful death or slightly quicker painful death.

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It is kinda true though. It's about priorities and self control. If you don't aim to do the hardest content, there is no real practical point to having gear that is equivalent to it. At that point, if anything, we'd want it simply because it's there. That's fine, mind you. But it will always come at a price, and if it's intended to be "soloable" in the devs eyes, compared to other options, you most definitely are in for a bland and lackluster ride lol.

That's along the lines of how balance works in MMORPGs, when it comes to gear. That's just how the genre is: it's a give and take based on comparing extremes. The middle-ground only exists if there are things to compare it to. At this point, it's very obvious the middle-ground would be drastically in favor of UAT weapons. The Relic weapons went from being (more or less) necessary in 2.0 progression, to a decent alternative with Atma/Animus, to a time-sink with Novus, to completely irrelevant for progression in latter stages. Right now, relic only exists for those who choose to take up the challenge.

I actually really like how this game has done things like the Books for Relic. as frustrating as the FATE waiting is, I do like the rest of it. It gets the higher level people mixing with the lower level people which does several things. first it helps keep older content relative going forward, without this and leve syncing getting in to a lower level dungeon today with your first character would become almost impossible. You think the waits are bad, imagine no one doing sastacha except for the 3 people who bought the game this month and signed into that particular database? (arbitrary numbers). It also gets the new players mixing with the higher leveled characters, the newbies see the groovy gear and it gives them something to shoot for.

I went into WoW during the WotLK expansion. I leveled all the way up to 50(? Or whatever the level cap was) solo. I never experienced the BC content, only dungeons I did i stood at the entrance while some high level guy facerolled it for me. that wasnt fun. I never got to experience the game. I just worry the elitist mindset will further destroy this game for new players. even less than a month after 2.0 launching people were getting pissed off cause someone wanted to watch the cutscenes. I applaud SE for trying to keep the game relevant going forward. Please, keep it up! Hoping the new Squad stuff will help relieve those who are too good to do lowbie dungeons.

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Originally Posted by QiLymePye

Actually. SE is forcing. You act like its easy to just form a group of like minded individuals that have the same schedule as you and the same goals, etc. Ummm...didn't they add DF because people were having a hard time finding people on their own servers to do dungeons with? Come on man, its so easy to say'''well don't do it then". Its like me only giving you two options when you are hungry...to either go make a weapon to hunt and skin and cook your animal or go rob a bank so you can have money to buy food. Two extremes, no middle. Its like picking your poison...slow painful death or slightly quicker painful death.

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so what do you think when your playing a MMORPG not everything is going to be done by yourself

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Oh only your deductive reasoning huh? The number of threads have nothing to do with it. Making generalized statements that more than half the community doesn't like the relic quest and finds it boring doesn't make it so. My experience in world is just the opposite of what is trying to be portrayed here by those of you who find it not worth your time or effort. You're more than welcome to an opinion that you find it boring but don't speak for everyone and certainly don't try and portray some statements as facts when you have none.

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Just because your experience, on your server, is at one end of the spectrum does not mean that the overall experience of the relic quest across all servers and all players has not been a negative one.

Also, saying that created threads on this topic has nothing to do with it isn't exactly true. Obviously they were created to discuss something. Players discussing their views, pro or con, would be at the heart of the very discussion we're having.

I also never said that I find it boring. You assumed that because I agreed with another post in this discussion.

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Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

I also never said that I find it boring. You assumed that because I agreed with another post in this discussion.

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Could you clarify for the community here where you are in your relic quest? I'd be interested in knowing.

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Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

Just because your experience, on your server, is at one end of the spectrum does not mean that the overall experience of the relic quest across all servers and all players has not been a negative one.

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It doesn't make what people are saying in this thread accurate either. They are making assumptions to support their own opinion and nothing more.

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Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

Also, saying that created threads on this topic has nothing to do with it isn't exactly true. Obviously they were created to discuss something. Players discussing their views, pro or con, would be at the heart of the very discussion we're having..

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This would be great if it was actually happening. People are more willing to debate opinions that find solutions. I have yet to see a single person properly articulate what they'd like to see changed outside of broad strokes smearing of the entire quest line. That's not productive.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Could you clarify for the community here where you are in your relic quest? I'd be interested in knowing.

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Where I am in the process has no bearing on this discussion.

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Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

Where I am in the process has no bearing on this discussion.

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Consider a lot of people are debating whether it has a story line or not? Yeah, I'd say it does. How can you hope to comment on something you haven't experienced? That would literally be you making stuff up based on assumptions and hearsay.

This is just like the Atma complaint threads last year :D

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

It doesn't make what people are saying in this thread accurate either. They are making assumptions to support their own opinion and nothing more.

This would be great if it was actually happening. People are more willing to debate opinions that find solutions. I have yet to see a single person properly articulate what they'd like to see changed outside of broad strokes smearing of the entire quest line. That's not productive.

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No, it does not make what people said in any thread discussing the relic true. One can assume though, if the majority of the responses in a particular thread are positive/negative that the overall issue is perceived as positive/negative.

I agree that people are more willing to agrue about opinions rather than find solutions, though I recall several indirect suggestions that could possibly make the process a bit better.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

Consider a lot of people are debating whether it has a story line or not? Yeah, I'd say it does. How can you hope to comment on something you haven't experienced? That would literally be you making stuff up based on assumptions and hearsay.

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The question at hand isn't about a possible story, but rather about how boring the process is. Much of what people seem to think about it largely points to grind aspects.

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Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

No, it does not make what people said in any thread discussing the relic true. One can assume though, if the majority of the responses in a particular thread are positive/negative that the overall issue is perceived as positive/negative.

I agree that people are more willing to agrue about opinions rather than find solutions, though I recall several indirect suggestions that could possibly make the process a bit better.

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This only works if the overall population has logged onto the forums, and the overall population has viewed this thread and the overall population even cared enough to comment on here in the first place. What we have wont be changing drastically any time soon, going forward SE might choose to take a different approach but thats something we will have to see.

http://memeforge.net/memes/img/mf-14...0411076960.jpg

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

OR like with all video game forums you'll only get a small slice of the vocal minority of the game. Not statistically representative at all of true global opinion, This forum is in no way usable in that fashion in any way that could be considered statistically significant. It's a specifically biased group of people.

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Well then, like Laylatsarra and yourself said, prove it. Otherwise it is nothing less than your opinion.