Correction of prices for optional items

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

It is cheaper - Most Race/Gender (actually can be separate at times!) change options in other MMOs, including F2P ones, can be $20+...each.

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That's not really relevant to what he said though is it? They have made the item worse than it was before but are charging the same price.

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Originally Posted by SinisterIsBack

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...psc81cbeec.png

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps0802e924.png

This guy would like to have a word with you.

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/facepalm

Why is it so hard for people in this game to understand what a calamity salvager is?

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Originally Posted by khovel

The Fantasia needs to be cheaper. It made sense that they went account wide for the original setup of them, but with them being near the same price and only for 1 character.... Make them like $2-$3 per fantasia. There is no need for them to be starting at ~ $8

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I agree with this. I was expecting more like around $5 for the singles.

Well if I pay now for a minion. and in 3 months they give it away as quest reward.
THAN I really would be annoyed.

This just means for me. Unless they say that those items in the cash shop won't be available for free in the future, I won't buy anything. I am not in a hurry to have y'shtola waddle behind me.

But SE srsly? I know I repeat myself. But for the Ghost thing and the pumpkins THAT much money? I can understand the pricing on minions. But the last Halloween gear things? D: I mean I have them... but the pricing is insane D:

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Originally Posted by Vaara

That's not really relevant to what he said though is it? They have made the item worse than it was before but are charging the same price.

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Saying it could be cheaper when it already is very cheap compared to other MMOs (and you actually get more for the price than other MMOs) - SE is actually competing. In the business side of things, it's perfect because when you see someone looking at your MMO features, you look at one MMO that says: "Race Change: $17, Gender Change: $20" then the other: "Race/Gender AND Appearance Change: $8...which looks more attractive if you ever go that route?

For the player? Of course you'd want it as cheap as possible or even free, so it only wouldn't be relevant if ARR was the only MMORPG that exists, SE is simply using competitive prices for a basic service, not to mention most of the players here did kind of beg them for purchasable Fantasias.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Saying it could be cheaper when it already is very cheap compared to other MMOs (and you actually get more for the price than other MMOs) - SE is actually competing. In the business side of things, it's perfect because when you see someone looking at your MMO features, you look at one MMO that says: "Race Change: $17, Gender Change: $20" then the other: "Race/Gender AND Appearance Change: $8...which looks more attractive if you ever go that route?

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You would make a good politician, ignoring the point made completely and attempting to spin it as a positive. They took an item off of the mog station, downgraded it, and put it back up at the exact same price.

But then you are the resident white knight, so I'll leave you to it.

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Originally Posted by Vaara

But then you are the resident white knight, so I'll leave you to it.

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Seem people still don't know what the term White Knight means - Guess it sucks that I actually know about business.

Speaking of ignoring:

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For the player? Of course you'd want it as cheap as possible or even free, so it only wouldn't be relevant if ARR was the only MMORPG that exists, SE is simply using competitive prices for a basic service, not to mention most of the players here did kind of beg them for purchasable Fantasias.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Seem people still don't know what the term White Knight means - Guess it sucks that I actually know about business.

Speaking of ignoring:

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I believe they get what you are saying, the issue is that it's not actually relevant to the discussion at hand. No one is questioning the pricing of Fantasias as they were originally marked (the purchase that applies to all characters on an account). The topic is why the new option (only applies to a single character) is set at the same price. Basic logic dictates that if two options are set at the same price and one gives you more uses, why even offer the second option? Taking one step more, why is it ok to remove the better option from the list of choices?

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Originally Posted by Codek

I believe they get what you are saying, the issue is that it's not actually relevant to the discussion at hand. No one is questioning the pricing of Fantasias as they were originally marked (the purchase that applies to all characters on an account). The topic is why the new option (only applies to a single character) is set at the same price. Basic logic dictates that if two options are set at the same price and one gives you more uses, why even offer the second option? Taking one step more, why is it ok to remove the better option from the list of choices?

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From what I remember they said they offered it in batches because that was the only format they could do at the time, which is why when you bought them up you were unable to buy anymore.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

It actually argues against the:

"SE IS RIPPING CONTENT OUT OF THE GAME!"

When they stated from the get go, even back during beta, that they're only bring the items back the first event rotation to allow non-1.0 players to gain the items

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Except the 2.3 summer event NPC brought back the 2.0 summer event swimsuits.

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Moonfire_Faire_Vendor

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Seem people still don't know what the term White Knight means - Guess it sucks that I actually know about business.

Speaking of ignoring:

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Maybe I was a bit harsh and I'm sorry, but you do seem to be missing the point at hand. I was happy with the original price of fantasia, and I bought one as well. However it is only usable for one character now (where as previously it was account wide, i.e pay for one fantasia and you get one for each of your created characters), yet it is the same price. It has nothing to do with other MMOs or what batches they are available in.

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Originally Posted by Nakiamiie

Holy sh*te! The prices are sooo expensive!

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The World of Warcraft cash shop would like to have a word with you.

These prices are ridiculously competitive. One might even suggest it's a fair bit of undercutting for a cash shop.

Prices seem fine. Offerings are fine with me. Unless it's pay to win I don't have a problem with it. Let me know when they add $20 Final coil weapons into the shop during 2.4 or 2.5. Only then would I really be a bit agitated.

NO CASH SHOP

I would rather see the price of the subscription go a bit higher than to see a cash shop which gives people advantage of expressing themselves artistically rather than being able to do so by earning their glamour in game. People want to express themselves of their style/personality and now they're going to be charging people to do so with such items. Seasonal event items should stay seasonal, not bought all year round. Also the prices on the shop are ridiculous and I highly disagree with them. This cash shop only shows greed not care towards the player base. One thing i fell in love with in this game was that you can earn everything IN GAME along with everyone else. If you missed the event you wait till next year and buy it cheap for gil keeping the items seasonal. We pay subscriptions because we enjoy the game and want to keep playing it but when decisions like this come out you lose money from subscribers and lose players/popularity.

I'm just very excited we will be able to purchase Fantasia's whenever we want. I like change, and I like to (sometimes) completely change my character every few months.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

I'm just very excited we will be able to purchase Fantasia's whenever we want. I like change, and I like to (sometimes) completely change my character every few months.

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you could have purchased them already, they sold them before the cash shop was even thought about.

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Originally Posted by Minerva-Redwater

you could have purchased them already, they sold them before the cash shop was even thought about.

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LOL oh I did. I was just very indecisive and used all the former options.

Are the fantasias uncapped? I mean, if I want to buy ONE, more than once, will I be able to? I like to change monthly, err, I liked it when I was able to. No way in holy hell will I purchase the 5 fantasia however.

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Originally Posted by Vaara

Maybe I was a bit harsh and I\\'m sorry, but you do seem to be missing the point at hand. I was happy with the original price of fantasia, and I bought one as well. However it is only usable for one character now (where as previously it was account wide, i.e pay for one fantasia and you get one for each of your created characters), yet it is the same price. It has nothing to do with other MMOs or what batches they are available in.

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On the other hand Fantasia is uncapped now and I imagine that's much more important for much more people than getting fantasia for every character (because the vast majority don't level alts and a tiny minority of that minority actually uses multiple fantasias on their alts).

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Originally Posted by Minerva-Redwater

I would rather see the price of the subscription go a bit higher than to see a cash shop (...)

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So you think everyone should pay more rather than just the people who want these items? That doesn't make sense to me.

As long as you think you're getting your $15/mth worth from the game, I don't understand the complaints about the cash shop. Yes, yes, they could have put those items in the game for free, but there's no reason to believe that they would have.

I don't know about you, but without the cash shop items, I'm certainly getting my money's worth. Now with the cash shop, the game is still the same (same value), but now I can choose to pay more for additional vanity items. I like having the choice.

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Originally Posted by Skeith-Adeline

Are the fantasias uncapped? I mean, if I want to buy ONE, more than once, will I be able to? I like to change monthly, err, I liked it when I was able to. No way in holy hell will I purchase the 5 fantasia however.

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Fantasias look to be uncapped now, yes. I think the reason they're selling the 3 and 5 increments is if you just want a small discount and want to have extras on hand just in case.

Y'know, I was super excited about the Wind-Up Minfilia and Thancred being available during the anniversary, because it made me look forward to next year's, when the possibility of one of them being Y'shtola. Nope. It's just going to be available for people to buy for $5 and it may not ever be part of The Rising. Obvious opportunity wasted by greed. :/

The other thing I hate is I'm going to buy it.

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Originally Posted by Boyzby

Obvious opportunity wasted by greed. :/

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It annoys me to no end when ppl say this. How do you know greed has anything to do with it? It costs money to provide a service. If you want to keep providing a service, or improve the service you are providing, that requires more money. What makes this accusation particularly disgusting is that FFXIV operated at a *loss* for an entire year just so they could provide you with a better service. Then you turn around and accuse them of being greedy. Without proof! I mean wow..thats pretty messed up.

The other thing is that FFXIV doesn't even get to keep all the money it makes. Rumour has it a lot of it goes to keeping the less successful parts of the company buoyant.

A business coming up with ways to make more money from its customers? Be still my aching heart!

I'm sure you guys can put aside buying one or two McDonalds meals over the course of several months to pay for some cosmetic items you might like. If you don't want them, don't pay for them. It's not pay-to-win.

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Originally Posted by Rjain

A business coming up with ways to make more money from its customers? Be still my aching heart!

I'm sure you guys can put aside buying one or two McDonalds meals over the course of several months to pay for some cosmetic items you might like. If you don't want them, don't pay for them. It's not pay-to-win.

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But...without their happy meals they will be very upset.

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A business coming up with ways to make more money from its customers? Be still my aching heart!

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That doesn't mean every choice they make is right or justifiable. You can make money and make your costumers feel valued and respected.

Heya there Lux_Rayna!

I think we were chatting in the petition thread yesterday. I definitely see you're point, about people making accusations, but I think you're discrediting those that are upset. There were reports that SE made profit off of FFXIV last year, http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/02...ofitable-2013/

They may be at a loss or be profitable, we don't know. However, based off the information we do know, people are led to believe this game is successful off of the subscriptions, b/c up until now they've produced quality content WITHOUT a cash shop. We've had a beautiful fanfest, a full year of content, and an expac on its way off the back of subscriptions and box purchases.

I definitely don't want to sound like I know what their pulling in, because I don't. Yet, I can't fault others for feeling like this is greedy when cash shops have proven time and time again to many MMO players to be a shameless and unnecessary cash grab in some games. It's also been proven with cash shops that the wealthy majority are the ones who are often heard the most since those few are supporting the game. There are prime examples of how companies time and time again promise a cash shop is a tool, then use it as a weapon to hold up customers for their money with unfair pricing models - Tera (promised it would only be vanity at first), GW2 (promised vanity but offered game enhancing buffs), LotR (very unfair pricing models when selling their expansions - per land), and the list goes on.

Although I do feel these games I've listed (with the exception of GW2) started off as subscription games and went to F2P possibly out of desperation, the fact of their unfair pricing models still stands to this day.

If FFXI didn't exist, I wouldn't have an argument. If the first 2-3yrs of WoW didn't exist, I wouldn't have anything to point at. The fact is, games can and do perform at a profit without cash shops. I'm not saying FFXIV isn't entitled to put one in (I definitely disagree with them switching in game items that were once free with sub are now sold in cash shops - look at my comment), but I also don't think it's fair for you to seemingly ignore what provides players with this sense of a company looking "greedy."

Hehe Sorry for the wall of text ^^ /

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Originally Posted by Moqi

That doesn't mean every choice they make is right or justifiable. You can make money and make your costumers feel valued and respected.

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No... no... it does. They've convinced me.

Patch 2.5: Subscription costs doubled.

But it's okay guys, it's so they can make more money! Anyway, if you can't afford it just stop buying food. Gosh, whiners.

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Originally Posted by SongJoohee

No... no... it does. They've convinced me.

Patch 2.5: Subscription costs doubled.

But it's okay guys, it's so they can make more money! Anyway, if you can't afford it just stop buying food. Gosh, whiners.

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Nice strawman. Too bad cosmetic minions and mounts are not actually needed to play the game like a subscription fee or food to not starve.

let's use number, will you... we know that we are more of 2.000.000 subscriber (more close of 2.5M) and that the minimal sub is 12.99 dollars per month, meaning for 2M sub they earn at least 25.980.000 dollars per month for a total of 311.176.000 per years (if the subs stay around this) seriously...

do they really really need the cash shop, with this much money coming in per month? (and it's probably far more) i doubt it. however, i have already said it in the english or french forum, i will have let it slide if it was old content they don't plan to bring back via vendor ingame. for new player to get them (like lightning return event stuff). but, i'm not sure all the money earn by FF14 is really reinvested into the game... i will be blunt, how can they have decide that upgrade the server... that limite them creation and add of content... to be the last resort when they get soo many money!

we all know that SE was in critical situation when FF14 ARR did come out and that the game did save them... but i wonder if actually they don't use this money for other game like FF15 and kingdom heart 3 (this one will probably make a tons of money) and i'm concerned to see them try to get more money from us...when we still wait to have some important issus solved like the server trouble and latency for a large part of the community.

i still wait to see yoshida come tell us why he did take this decision, and why for him the server upgrade is the last resort option, when it clearly block them in them devellopement of the game! they need to be more transparent about some decision they take.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

let's use number, will you... we know that we are more of 2.000.000 subscriber (more close of 2.5M) and that the minimal sub is 12.99 dollars per month, meaning for 2M sub they earn at least 25.980.000 dollars per month for a total of 311.176.000 per years (if the subs stay around this) seriously...

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You should probably consider expenses and liabilities into that equation. I know a doctor who makes about 750k a year between all of his assets, and is routinely thousands of dollars in the negative. Just because you bring in a lot of revenue doesn't mean you get to keep most of it.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

You should probably consider expenses and liabilities into that equation. I know a doctor who makes about 750k a year between all of his assets, and is routinely thousands of dollars in the negative. Just because you bring in a lot of revenue doesn't mean you get to keep most of it.

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Then he should take a course in accounting, bookkeeping or something like that.
Furthermore, it's probably related to using expensive medication and the latest technology to treat diseases. It's worth it.

Here, we're talking about a game company. Sure, the servers and stuff cost a lot of money, but with that amount, FFXIV:ARR is covered.
I'm paying for FFXIV:ARR, not the other games I don't play. They should put their stupid cash shop in those other games eating their revenues.

Well, it was revealed that XI at 500k subs was hugely profitable and the money went to funding other games. XIV's 2-2.5 million is far from accurate for month to month sub rate but if it's at least the same as XI back then, it should also be massive profits, even if you consider that the dev team is probably bigger than XIs. But then again, they recently revealed at how small their combat dev team is so it can't be that much larger so I think salary costs wouldn't be so big that it cuts SE's profits that much. So I'm skeptical that the money coming from cash shop is going back into the game.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

You should probably consider expenses and liabilities into that equation. I know a doctor who makes about 750k a year between all of his assets, and is routinely thousands of dollars in the negative. Just because you bring in a lot of revenue doesn't mean you get to keep most of it.

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i highly doubt the game cost them more of 20.000.000 a month or they have really need to check where the money go. anyway, we know the game did save the company, meaning the profit is far more important than the developpement, the cost of the server and the maintenance.

i can understand that they want to make other game and such, but i did read stuff that have disturb me a lot about game like FF15, the director did admit that the console gaming in japan is dying and that FF15 is one of the game of the last chance for the console gaming in japan. (ok it maybe too strong and self centered i doubt only one game can save the console gaming in japan and we don't talk of handheld console, but console like ps4/xbox one and such) but i will be extremely upset to learn that a lot of the money made by FF14:ARR was used for FF15. when we know that the game definitivly need improvement in some area quite critical, like the latency of the european/oceanic player... or simply the capacity of the server too small for the game and his developement.

It is entirely possible that this is the kind of thing where Yoshi P and the FFXIV dev team have their hands tied. Square Enix might pocket most of the money from the cash shop and divert it to other projects but they may have promised x amount of the money from sales to go back to FFXIV and SE might have adjusted the FFXIV budget to compensate. I mean, one of the luxury things that some publishers shell out a lot of cash for is a live orchestra for music recording and as we've seen from Fanfest, most of the music is just Soken, his synthesizer, his band and maybe a vocalist.

Also, Yoshi P says that the game has massive databases attached to each character. Whether or not it's the most efficient way of doing what they do is debatable but they need tons of extra server power and storage to keep up with your character savestate, which pushes them way ahead of FFXI in server load.

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Originally Posted by Eej

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I definitely agree that this could be out of Yoshi's hands. We may need to accept the cash shop. However, we can at least set some terms on what we find acceptable and not. In my petition thread ( http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...t-of-Cash-Shop ) that's exactly what I'm trying to do. Whether people agree or disagree, any sort of constructive criticism is good so long as it isn't downright name calling (imo). That's where I drew the line, items that were in the game last year for free (aside from your sub cost which is kind of obvious and some gil) are now being sold for real money. Not just real money but incredibly expensive - 5$ per pumpkin hat and costume PER character - that's 30$ per each character.

Seasonal Items, I can see both side of the arguments. But what about the minions/pet? I want an Yda minion but I don't want to pay extra for it. Shouldn't I get an option to obtain in an event in game? or Is it available via cash shop only? This is the problem that I have with this currently.

Edit* Please don't use the argument of "entitlement".

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

You should probably consider expenses and liabilities into that equation. I know a doctor who makes about 750k a year between all of his assets, and is routinely thousands of dollars in the negative. Just because you bring in a lot of revenue doesn't mean you get to keep most of it.

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If Final Fantasy XIV is still operating at a loss after the release of ARR they need to really fire some accounting staff. This game lacks where most don't in so many departments with the same old server limitations excuse dragged out every time,, just a few examples, we still lack proper European servers, other games are miraculously able to give every character a house, rather than a small handful, uou have to pay monthly for additional storage space, other games have them as a one-off cost, and those games, don't even have subscription costs (GW2/Path of Exile, on GW2 it's cheaper to buy extra storage one off than the monthly cost on FFXIV....), the game even had a 300ms delay because of server limitations which they eventually changed to 100ms... in instances, this 300ms delay in combination with European servers in Canada was the cause of 1000s or not 10000s of EU players frustrations which took months to get fixed.

Except I wouldn't be surprised if it is running a lot a loss despite all the claims of the game being highly successful and selling more than they ever imagined. Even with Yoshida saying before he prefers subscriptions as it provides stability for planning how much content they make. Square Enix has a history of saying games which have sold well have been failures (Sleeping Dogs, Hitman Absolution and Tomb Raider), and haven't met targets, they obviously have budgeting problems somewhere. I wonder if it's the same with FFXIV, despite all the talk of it being a success and surpassing targets.

edit: Massively multiplayer online role playing games such as “FINAL FANTASY XIV” and “DRAGON QUEST X,” have been making favorable progress.

From Financial Report from this year. http://www.hd.square-enix.com/eng/ne...q1earnings.pdf

Sounds like Profit to me.

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Originally Posted by Raxion

Miss out on what? A pet? Oh man, that's really going to hinder my playstyle. I'll never clear coil now.

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Last time I checked the Nutkin pet was 7mil on excal (more than a small house). That clearly shows pets are a big part of the game to a lot of people. It may not take away from your play style having pets in the cash shop, but many people get a lot of enjoyment out of hunting these things down and finally getting the drop. After all isn't that what a game is about? giving you pleasure and entertaining you? If people find enjoyment in something other than endgame then a cash shop is taking away from their experience.

It's also a matter of principal, nobody enjoys being asked to pay extra when they are already paying for something. The whole reason a lot of people play sub games is to avoid cash shops and Yoshi P even mentioned in the past that our sub would cover all content, seems they decided now that 2.5 million players subbing wasn't lining their pockets enough.