So resetting's against the rules now?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Appleh4x

As a tank on my server who actively hunts (and finds many of the hunts that I do myself) I will continue to reset mobs when people shout and ask for it. I have never on my server had the issue of people not getting credit for a reset, and have only seen it benefit others. If someone pulls early and my party is not all there, I will also reset the mob so everyone has a chance to receive full credit. I have seen people grief by pulling as soon as they show up when many are clearly waiting on party members (hunts were designed to be done in parties btw,) and I always reset when this happens.

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Enjoy your suspensions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mcshiggs

Enjoy your suspensions.

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My server isn't full of people like yourself. I actually am thanked for it. Enjoy your unpleasant view of the (virtual) world and constant reporting about ridiculous things that waste a GM's time.

Attacking a mob in the open field is not griefing. Stealing one someone is busy fighting is. Sorry the zerg mindset isn't endorsed by the GMs.

I just wonder who braught up that rumor with the initial claim bonus on result calculation...
For me its a lie and i am surprised how many fall for it...
You cant get more than cap, so why bringing up that shit?
Maybe just an excuse from those who dont like to wait for others and tryed to defend themselves!

Dont missunderstand me, there may be a bonus, but you easily get the cap without it.

[QUOTE=Thayos;2338034]No, there are early pulls.

No there are "no early pulls", and it has nothing whatsoever to do with ethics, you are fighting a losing battle here with game mechanics, those mechanics were when the patch was released and still are "first come first serve", I don't understand why people ignore mechanics.

Those mechanics weren't intended to be interpreted by the player base at all for their own satisfaction of opinion, no one has to wait to pull.

Their are two reasons chivalry doesn't work well hunting marks, the more people you wait on the less likely anyone is to get full credit if someone decides to leash, and the more grief of any kind you may be subjected to.

Leash resetting is griefing as he explained because the people who "already" had credit established may now lose it to benefit others, you cant help your friends "at the expense" of others, stealing a piece of candy from a kid who has two pieces to give another kid one isn't sharing, it's just stealing.

Another analogy is cops confiscating drug money from cartels and then donating it to the poor, the suffering involved in making that money doesn't magically go away, it's still dirty money.

Same goes for credit lost to others already present on resets, people who haven't arrived yet don't have claim to their credit, again first come first serve, it's how hunts were designed for better or worse.

I am a Ilvl 86 dragoon (I don't play this sigs toon anymore), and if I find a mark by stumbling onto it I am dead silent, the call only goes to my FC, if I show up after it has been found I A) Say nothing, and B) never pull first. it's how this content was designed, people need to get over it already.

This leash mechanic was not designed to mesh with random spawn hunts, doubt it will be fixed now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lamentations

]No, there are early pulls.

No there are "no early pulls", and it has nothing whatsoever to do with ethics, you are fighting a losing battle here with game mechanics, those mechanics were when the patch was released and still are "first come first serve", I don't understand why people ignore mechanics.

Those mechanics weren't intended to be interpreted by the player base at all for their own satisfaction of opinion, no one has to wait to pull.

Their are two reasons chivalry doesn't work well hunting marks, the more people you wait on the less likely anyone is to get full credit if someone decides to leash, and the more grief of any kind you may be subjected to.

Leash resetting is griefing as he explained because the people who "already" had credit established may now lose it to benefit others, you cant help your friends "at the expense" of others, stealing a piece of candy from a kid who has two pieces to give another kid one isn't sharing, it's just stealing...

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This isn't a piece of candy. Your post reminds me of those terrible anti piracy ads saying stuff like "you wouldn't download a car!" If you want to think of it as candy then think of it as candy that can be fed to one person, or it can magically feed the same amount to a hundred people if properly shared. Do it right and everyone gets a piece of the pie, try to hoarde it and you'll start complaining on the forums about resets because you pulled it too early.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Appleh4x

This isn't a piece of candy. Your post reminds me of those terrible anti piracy ads saying stuff like "you wouldn't download a car!" If you want to think of it as candy then think of it as candy that can be fed to one person, or it can magically feed the same amount to a hundred people if properly shared. Do it right and everyone gets a piece of the pie, try to hoarde it and you'll start complaining on the forums about resets because you pulled it too early.

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No, it's a system that isn't designed to support that many people on one mob. People like to claim that hundreds can get full credit, but it just cannot happen based on how the system works.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Appleh4x

This isn't a piece of candy. Your post reminds me of those terrible anti piracy ads saying stuff like "you wouldn't download a car!" If you want to think of it as candy then think of it as candy that can be fed to one person, or it can magically feed the same amount to a hundred people if properly shared. Do it right and everyone gets a piece of the pie, try to hoarde it and you'll start complaining on the forums about resets because you pulled it too early.

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Again folks ignoring mechanics, and by your own reasoning you could be said to be pirating other peoples credit to download client side to benefit people who ask for the mob to be reset.

I distinctly said it was an "anology", you don't think the analogy fits this situation, sorry, but it does.

As Ispano stated, it's a "system", now suddenly 10 shades of chivalry are applied to this or that situation.

I can also promise you I wont ever be complaining about resets, it isn't worth the time, it's "mechanics".

Resetting is griefing, I cant say it enough it seems.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ispano

No, it's a system that isn't designed to support that many people on one mob. People like to claim that hundreds can get full credit, but it just cannot happen based on how the system works.

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Works pretty well on Goblin. If you people didn't pull early and formed proper parties you wouldn't be here complaining, you'd be getting full credit on hunts and have to find something else to complain about.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Appleh4x

Works pretty well on Goblin. If you people didn't pull early and formed proper parties you wouldn't be here complaining, you'd be getting full credit on hunts and have to find something else to complain about.

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lol ok, everyone states in chat when 100 zerg a mob that they merrily got full credit on a hunt mark half of them never saw load from lag in the first place, this situation has been established in many other threads.

Your server either doesn't have many players on a mob, certainly not 100, or this is simple fabrication.

Pulling early is not griefing, people not waiting is XIV mechanics "working as intended", declaring in shout an S ranks spawn is "not" is the game "working as intended", leashing is stealing one groups credit to benefit others.

The official statement by the moderator defined this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Appleh4x

Works pretty well on Goblin. If you people didn't pull early and formed proper parties you wouldn't be here complaining, you'd be getting full credit on hunts and have to find something else to complain about.

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The other day I saw a shout that Marraco was up. I forwarded information to FC and got a group with people that were there... At most 2 full parties.
The rest had just found another A-rank in another zone.

We started fighting Marraco and when it was at 30%, the hoarde arrived after killing the other A-rank... The hoarde immediate started crying for someone to reset, while some of us who were there from start were dead and a reset would have voided any contribution we had done that far. Luckily noone managed to reset.

Would you call that pulling early? That was the hoarde ignoring the call because they found another A-rank.

I complained about the call to reset and would have complained more if they had succeeded.

Resetting is griefing more often than not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lamentations

lol ok, everyone states in chat when 100 zerg a mob that they merrily got full credit on a hunt mark half of them never saw load from lag in the first place, this situation has been established in many other threads.

Your server either doesn't have many players on a mob. certainly not 100, or this is simple fabrication.

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We just form full parties of 8 people, and every job does what earns the most credit. Tanks generate enmity, healers spam medica/2, DPS... they dps. We all share information about the hunts over many LS and don't keep it exclusive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

The other day I saw a shout that Marraco was up. I forwarded information to FC and got a group with people that were there... At most 2 full parties.
The rest had just found another A-rank in another zone.

We started fighting Marraco and when it was at 30%, the hoarde arrived after killing the other A-rank... The hoarde immediate started crying for someone to reset, while some of us who were there from start were dead and a reset would have voided any contribution we had done that far. Luckily noone managed to reset.

Would you call that pulling early? That was the hoarde ignoring the call because they found another A-rank.

I complained about the call to reset and would have complained more if they had succeeded.

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You should read a guide on hunting. Share the information with as many people as possible via Linkshells before you pull and you won't have this issue, and in turn people will tell you about more hunts as well. Win-win

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lamentations

lol ok, everyone states in chat when 100 zerg a mob that they merrily got full credit on a hunt mark half of them never saw load from lag in the first place, this situation has been established in many other threads.

Your server either doesn't have many players on a mob. certainly not 100, or this is simple fabrication.

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If you never saw it, you wouldn't be able to get a hit in at all, and therefore not any base contribution so the party contribution wouldn't apply to you.
That's a simple fact.

On one particularly bad day Zona Seeker spawned. I got there, never saw the mob, tried to spam Holy where it was supposed to be based on the hoarde, ended up with 0.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Appleh4x

You should read a guide on hunting. Share the information with as many people as possible via Linkshells before you pull and you won't have this issue, and in turn people will tell you about more hunts as well. Win-win

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Way to completely ignore what I wrote. The hoarde IGNORED the call because they were busy with another mark. There is ZERO reason to wait for them to complete that and get to the one we had when we were perfectly capable of killing it on our own.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

If you never saw it, you wouldn't be able to get a hit in at all, and therefore not any base contribution so the party contribution wouldn't apply to you.
That's a simple fact.

On one particularly bad day Zona Seeker spawned. I got there, never saw the mob, tried to spam Holy where it was supposed to be based on the hoarde, ended up with 0.

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Not real sure if your intending to argue my facts with me here, or agreeing with me, because that's exactly what I pointed out.

Im thinking were on the same page here.

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Originally Posted by Lamentations

Not real sure if your intending to argue my facts with me here, or agreeing with me, because that's exactly what I pointed out.

Im thinking were on the same page here.

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You pointed out that you GET credit even if you don't see the mob. I pointed out that's false if you can't get a single hit in at all due to not being able to see it.
If you got full credit, you must have seen the mob and managed to land a hit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

Way to completely ignore what I wrote. The hoarde IGNORED the call because they were busy with another mark. There is ZERO reason to wait for them to complete that and get to the one we had when we were perfectly capable of killing it on our own.

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I did read what you wrote, which is why I responded how I did. If you told people then more than 2 parties would have been there and no one would have died, more people would have gotten seals, and you would have been able to go to the other A rank as well

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Appleh4x

You should read a guide on hunting. Share the information with as many people as possible via Linkshells before you pull and you won't have this issue, and in turn people will tell you about more hunts as well. Win-win

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Except, you know, no such "guide of hunting" exists, like it's a bible and everyone has to follow, because... yeah, you guessed it! It's a Finders Keepers game, and if I find it, I pull it, don't wait for your freaking horde to come, and if you do and reset the thing I FOUND, be sure reports are coming your way. And I don't care about your freakingly big and organized linkshells, the point of the matter is that me, or someone else's party was there first and has 100% rights to get credit for it.
There's not a "greater good" in this system's mechanics, you all defending those pulls are delussional. Just check the GM's posts.
You are not a Messiah helping people get credits. That mob wasn't yours when you robbed a small party of it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

You pointed out that you GET credit even if you don't see the mob. I pointed out that's false if you can't get a single hit in at all due to not being able to see it.
If you got full credit, you must have seen the mob and managed to land a hit.

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I went back and looked, I don't see anywhere I said you get any credit at all not seeing a mob lol.^^

I agree with your description, you misunderstood something you read.

I was telling him that I didn't believe that it works well on goblin because of the very reason you stated, you took it another way.^^

Lol, (post limit Nekodar) yea I was being sarcastic, I thought it was obvious, no harm done.^^

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

You pointed out that you GET credit even if you don't see the mob. I pointed out that's false if you can't get a single hit in at all due to not being able to see it.
If you got full credit, you must have seen the mob and managed to land a hit.

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It's not false, perhaps the elite was outside the range of your holy, but from personal experience I can confirm you do get party contribution by using aoes that don't require a target. If an S rank spawns while the horde is hunting that's the only way I can get contrib, by spamming Blizzard II.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Appleh4x

I did read what you wrote, which is why I responded how I did. If you told people then more than 2 parties would have been there and no one would have died, more people would have gotten seals, and you would have been able to go to the other A rank as well

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*cough*

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

The sense of entitlement that leads people to believe that they MUST be at every mob absolutely baffles me

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Appleh4x

I did read what you wrote, which is why I responded how I did. If you told people then more than 2 parties would have been there and no one would have died, more people would have gotten seals, and you would have been able to go to the other A rank as well

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Once again, it was called out in shout and in linkshells.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lamentations

I went back and looked, I don't see anywhere I said you get any credit at all not seeing a mob lol.^^

I agree with your description, you misunderstood something you read.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lamentations

lol ok, everyone states in chat when 100 zerg a mob that they merrily got full credit on a hunt mark half of them never saw load from lag in the first place

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That part...

Re-setting is unfair and should ideally be fixed by making the enemy go to the next person on the enmity list when the tank leaves the area. Furthermore, to prevent people using this as a survival tactic (i.e. i'll pull then run off before I die to get sneaky full credit) the person leaving the area should have their contribution set back to 0. We need to see a zone barrier appear as you approach it for fates though, so that re-setting isn't done accidentally by a player that's kiting.

Failing this then yes I think re-setting is something that should be reported and stopped by GM's (warning's first to be fair).

Original Poster, saying you are doing it because other people ask you to doesn't cut it. You have to think about what you're doing and make your own decisions. I know you are trying to help people, and there's pressure from many to re-set also, but it's not fair for those who engage the boss first to lose their accumulated credit this way. There is no such thing as an early pull. If a group pulls "early" then they die, the mob is reset anyway or the next players arriving will get the credit. If they can kill the boss without the additional players, then how is this considered early? There were enough players to do the job.

The hunts are absolute garbage gameplay wise right now, and it's because we have swarms of players attempting to zerg every one. The attitude that people should wait for 100+ players to arrive is completely wrong. Anyone should be able to engage when they feel confident there are enough people to succeed. There are plenty of hunts out there, it's very greedy for players who want to get massive numbers of seals to go re-setting the mob and treading on the initial pull groups efforts.

Overall, I think the incentive to spam hunts is too high, and this is a design issue. Why they give so many seals even without picking up the hunt bill is beyond my understanding. There should at least be a cap on seals per week so anyone can get a chance to participate, at least for their weekly elite bill.

REWARDS FOR HUNTS ARE TOO DAMN HIGH!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

Once again, it was called out in shout and in linkshells.

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Neko, no need to explain yourself to him.

Wether if the horde was coming or not, if you guys pulled the mob, its yours and those there at the moment.
I think many people in this game don't know what Finders Keepers is. If they reset on you, report them. Hopefully they'll be kicked out.

He claimed he was going to keep resetting because he KNOWS everyone thanks him and EVERYONE got full credits thank to it... like, really?
I report many people who reset and not say a thing on chat, because it achieves nothing but badmouthing. He seems to know just because the people he's griefing on is not vocal at the moment equals everyone is happy with his resets.
/facepalm

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eckhart

Except, you know, no such "guide of hunting" exists, like it's a bible and everyone has to follow, because... yeah, you guessed it! It's a Finders Keepers game, and if I find it, I pull it, don't wait for your freaking horde to come, and if you do and reset the thing I FOUND, be sure reports are coming your way. And I don't care about your freakingly big and organized linkshells, the point of the matter is that me, or someone else's party was there first and has 100% rights to get credit for
You are not a Messiah helping people get credits. That mob wasn't yours when you robbed a small party of it.

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Robbed? I or my party find the majority of hunts I do, then we share with everyone else. Here is that guide you thought didn't exist.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

Once again, it was called out in shout and in linkshells.

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Umm, no you said you told your FC only:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

The other day I saw a shout that Marraco was up. I forwarded information to FC and got a group with people that were there... At most 2 full parties.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Appleh4x

Robbed? I or my party find the majority of hunts I do, then we share with everyone else. Here is that guide you thought didn't exist.

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That's fine, just don't re-set.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Appleh4x

Robbed? I or my party find the majority of hunts I do, then we share with everyone else. Here is that guide you thought didn't exist.

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Except you totally missed the point mate.

No one is forced to follow that guide you love-so-much. If I wanna hunt alone, I do it alone, if I do it with friends, I do it with friends.
I'm not forced to SHOUT to the server, nor I'm obliged for your party to get there in time.

BTW, keyword on your response: MAJORITY.

If you reset mobs you didnt find you are griefing in the process, and probably robbing someone who was there before off their credit.

Do you still have any doubt about this? Re-read the GMs posts, crystal clear.

All the people complaining here have the major problem of not wanting to play with other people in a massively multiplayer online game. If you want the most out of an MMO you have to be a bro, and bros share. If you want to play by yourself there are literally thousands of single player games for you to choose from on whatever platform you prefer (except ps4.) Notice that "massively" is the first word in MMO, 8 people =/= massive. If you want to have a good community you should do content with the whole server community, like hunts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Appleh4x

Umm, no you said you told your FC only:

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FC was a mis-spell as I meant linkshell, but it's really the same thing as it was also called out in other shells I was in though not by me. It was however shouted out as I said.
It was fully called out and it was ignored because the hoarde found another mark to play with first.
That they had found another mark was mentioned AFTER they called for reset on Marraco btw, which I forgot to mention because I'm still angry at people over this incident and a couple of other incidents since then.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Appleh4x

All the people complaining here have the major problem of not wanting to play with other people in a massively multiplayer online game. If you want the most out of an MMO you have to be a bro, and bros share. If you want to play by yourself there are literally thousands of single player games for you to choose from on whatever platform you prefer (except ps4.)

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Keep missing the point and cry some moar "bro."

Did you read where I said I might want to play with my friends, maybe they are like 60, as in a FC or something?
Just because it's an MMO I'm not forced to tag along 500 strangers just to kill a random spawned mob?

Once again, go re-read the GM's post, and stop spilling nonsense, this has been cleared already.

As far as I'm concerned I PAY the same as you every month, so stop talking like you way to play the game is more valid than mine.
I'm a customer as much as you, and everytime the likes of you resets a mob and I lose credit, you are messing with my enjoyment.

Except you specifically mentioned playing solo and with small groups of friends

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eckhart

No one is forced to follow that guide you love-so-much. If I wanna hunt alone, I do it alone, if I do it with friends, I do it with friends.
I'm not forced to SHOUT to the server, nor I'm obliged for your party to get there in time.

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I'm the only one here not crying lol. The GM said the intent is what matters, and if someone resets for the purpose of making others not get seals (he specifically mentioned hunts with large kill mechanics and petrification) then that would be griefing. Resetting so everyone can get seals =/= griefing but he said people are allowed to report if they feel it was and they will investigate and decide if the intent was malicious or not. Maybe you should go back and read.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

FC was a mis-spell as I meant linkshell, but it's really the same thing as it was also called out in other shells I was in though not by me. It was however shouted out as I said.
It was fully called out and it was ignored because the hoarde found another mark to play with first.
That they had found another mark was mentioned AFTER they called for reset on Marraco btw, which I forgot to mention because I'm still angry at people over this incident and a couple of other incidents since then.

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If you're gonna change your story for the sake of convenience I really can't take you seriously. Join a few hunt LS and be more active in them, it's a very rewarding experience.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Appleh4x

If you're gonna change your story for the sake of convenience I really can't take you seriously. Join a few hunt LS and be more active in them, it's a very rewarding experience.

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Fact: I wrote that it was shouted out, since it was how I learned about it.
Mistake: I wrote I forwarded to FC when I meant LS, but there is no change in meaning.
Fact: It was called out and ignored
Mistake: Forgetting to point out that the reason why it was ignored was learned only after they had cried for reset.
Mistake: Writing that I missed/misspelled some details because I was still angry at this and other incidents.

I have been more active than most in the hunt shells I'm in, called out plenty in LS, FC and /shout of which more than a few have been ones I found before anyone else. With most people just sitting somewhere waiting for a mark to be announced, that's not difficult.

This time I just happened to be in Coerthas on other business.


Big mistake: Writing anything on these forums at all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Appleh4x

Except you specifically mentioned playing solo and with small groups of friends

I'm the only one here not crying lol. The GM said the intent is what matters, and if someone resets for the purpose of making others not get seals (he specifically mentioned hunts with large kill mechanics and petrification) then that would be griefing. Resetting so everyone can get seals =/= griefing but he said people are allowed to report if they feel it was and they will investigate and decide if the intent was malicious or not. Maybe you should go back and read.

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No. You just continue to twist Enkrateia's words to suit your purposes. Resetting for any reason is enough for an investigation and likely action. Your personal intent is irrelevant. You are willingly disrupting everyone that was already there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

Big mistake: Writing anything on these forums at all.

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I can only imagine how the CM's and GM's feel.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tiraelina

No. You just continue to twist Enkrateia's words to suit your purposes. Resetting for any reason is enough for an investigation and likely action. Your personal intent is irrelevant. You are willingly disrupting everyone that was already there.



I can only imagine how the CM's and GM's feel.

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I haven't twisted anything. Everyone else here is saying "x is harassment/disruption/bannable" when the GM said that it all boils down to if the GM thinks the intent of the reset is punishable or not. The GM is the only one with power, the only one who can say whether each specific event is punishable or not, and the only one who can enforce it. I'm one of the few people taking what he said at face value.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Appleh4x

All the people complaining here have the major problem of not wanting to play with other people in a massively multiplayer online game. If you want the most out of an MMO you have to be a bro, and bros share. If you want to play by yourself there are literally thousands of single player games for you to choose from on whatever platform you prefer (except ps4.) Notice that "massively" is the first word in MMO, 8 people =/= massive. If you want to have a good community you should do content with the whole server community, like hunts.

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I do understand what you mean, but the hunts are just not designed for massive groups. Odin and Behemoth are, but hunts are intended for much less. I would also argue shouting for invites to random parties, then zerging rather than co-ordinated effort is a less appealing community event than having the 8 people nearby with you take on a decent challenge together and perhaps be more likely to communicate and make friends.

Hundreds of people packed into a rush hour train together are not a community, just hundreds of individuals doing the same thing.

@ Appleh4x AKA Aka Kistune,

For your own reference, I'll just quote an earlier post of mine:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Enkrateia

However, that being said, the reality of these intentions have been pointed out in this thread by others: by intentionally resetting a hunt mark, you have chosen to interfere with the game play of other customers.

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Which then leads to this:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Enkrateia

Resetting hunt marks, for any reason, can be reported as a violation, and a GM will make the final decision on if this action was in violation of the rules or not. While intent is considered, it is also weighed with factors like impact and account history, just to list two of the many considerations a GM may allow into the investigation. Focusing on your good/bad intentions will only cause any account action to come as a surprise, since you may consider yourself on the "good" side of that split. Historically, almost everyone in Mordion Gaol for this violation does (or claims to). Focusing on your intent also removes focus from the second part of the investigation, which is:


In light of that external analysis, your claimed intent may not be considered the actual intent at the end of the investigation.

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In short, the GMs would prefer you not reset the hunt at for, for any intent because though you may perceive it as good, you are still affecting the game play of others and you yourself are risking suspension / banning for doing such action.

The GMs would prefer you do not reset at all because they would rather not see you risk getting suspended despite good intentions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Velo_Vandore

I do understand what you mean, but the hunts are just not designed for massive groups. Odin and Behemoth are, but hunts are intended for much less. I would also argue shouting for invites to random parties, then zerging rather than co-ordinated effort is a less appealing community event than having the 8 people nearby with you take on a decent challenge together and perhaps be more likely to communicate and make friends.

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from the patch notes "although the Rank S maximum HP level was already intended for multiple parties, we have further raised the necessary number to require even more parties.
Similar to Odin and Behemoth."