Solutions to stop speedrunning

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Originally Posted by Geobryn

ppl speed run because the content they speed run are NOT meant for them ilvl wise, but meant for them reward wise
thats all there is to it :P

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That's definitely part of the problem. Dungeons are too easy but the alternatives are CT or coil. I would llove for the next 3-4 dungeons hm to be around ilvl 70-80.

And for everything lower, lvlsynch.

Make it where when 2-3 parties of mobs are together they can LB something no tank could survive!

on a side note i like speed runs with the low amount of tomes that drop its hard to farm lol

I'd be kinda into an ilevel sync for this purpose, but I know people wouldn't be super fond of it.

I don't understand the people who argue against level sync as "we hit 50 and are supposed to feel powerful".

I'd much rather have I've hit 50 and now i can do i50 dungeons for i60 gear, and then get i70 gear from i60 dungeons, so that I can get i80 gear to do i80 dungeons so I can get i90 gear to do i90 dungeons.

But the problem is ilevel. In a game where we hit level 50 as max level, and we can already hit level 110 with gear, what would be the point of increasing the level cap. Especially since we don't even have any real i70, i80, or even i90 4 man content.

It seems to me the biggest problem is SE requiring so much grinding to begin with. People wouldn't pressure so hard for speedruns if it weren't 95% of the people doing the dungeons, because while a new person to the dungeon might be looking for a piece of loot or something, the rest of the community is grinding it ad-naseum several hundred times for myth and/or the weekly soldiery caps.

I dunno, I get unltimately the real reason for grind requirements on repetitive content is to stretch that content, but I dunno, I think this game is too mindless-grind aside from Coil. And I know FF has a long history of being king of the grind and all, but I think there's better ways to implement it. In fact, I like the idea of solo daily quests better for most of the 'grind' stuff that way it'd be a little more segmented in what/why people are running specific content; as-is, the 'dailies' just don't give enough reward to choose them over doing dungeons.

Currently speedrun is just optimizing your performance, why have to speed down when not necessary?

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

Currently speedrun is just optimizing your performance, why have to speed down when not necessary?

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Why enter a dungeon if you don't have an hour to spend running it?

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Why enter a dungeon if you don't have an hour to spend running it?

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I think above question is irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Why enter a dungeon if you don't have an hour to spend running it?

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wut, where does it say you need/require an hour for a dungeon?

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Originally Posted by ComradeQuestions

In fact, I like the idea of solo daily quests better for most of the 'grind' stuff that way it'd be a little more segmented in what/why people are running specific content; as-is, the 'dailies' just don't give enough reward to choose them over doing dungeons.

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god no! no more dailies .... unless they are leve style (aka buffered dailies), that way you can atleast choose when you want to do them

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Why enter a dungeon if you don't have an hour to spend running it?

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because you have 20 minutes and its really easy to finish in 20 minutes.

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

Currently speedrun is just optimizing your performance, why have to speed down when not necessary?

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Because I'm not in a hurry. I like to take detours, looking around for details I have missed in my previous runs, chatting and joking with the party... I want to experience the dungeon, not go in, dump my heals, and get my tomes on the way out like a worker in an assembly line.

I think it would help a lot if SE took out the time limit for a dungeon. The ticking clock (while plenty) gives the whole thing a rushey feeling. You're not supposed to stay in and chat pleasantly - you're on a duty and you have to make it fast!

The dungeons should also have more than one route to progress with different difficulties, loots and even rewards. It would make the party actually chat for a while of which route to take, which route seems too boring, which route have been taken too often etc and would help tremendously with the exploration aspect.

Add NPC's in dungeons (to protect or guide or something) to set the pace. More interesting mechanics. Square Enix just feels lazy as of late, so no one want to spend time with boring, repetitive dungeons that - let's be honest - have zero exploration and detail value.

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Originally Posted by Memoe

Add NPC's in dungeons (to protect or guide or something) to set the pace.

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I see the point of your post but, there are two pace setters in Bray HM SR's.

1st is waiting on the lockout for first boss. Not a huge pause as you can pull the boss while you wait for lock out, but it slows it up a bit.
2nd is we have to wait on that short legged a$$ gobbie to get its behind to the wall to blow a hole in it.

Without those two things, imagine the 15-20 seconds we would save there..... ^.^

Guys... keeping this thread alive is really really bad and poisoning the future of this game/community. We ALL know the problem is not SR and clearly this thread proves it!

It's a very emotional promblem and everyone just keeps on dramatizing about it. Stop adding fake argument as they are just based on what you like. This is not helping on making this a better game. And I'm talking both sides!

Some hate SR, some love SR. SO WHAT!

-Instead of submitting ideas to stop SR just because you hate it, try to think further and propose something new instead... Remember, the problem is communication and people, not the SR, not the dungeons. SR is a choice! If you think it isn't, think again! Do not try to force someone or a group of people to change something you can easily avoid JUST because you feel like it. This ain't Nazitown.

-This goes also for people like me, who are b*tching on people who complain about SR. Try to think of a smarter, more polite way, to try and open the eyes of those who complain about SR.

Again, I remind you all: This is a people problem, it's all about communication.

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Originally Posted by sheepysheepy

because you have 20 minutes and its really easy to finish in 20 minutes.

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But why spend 2 hours trying to set-up a speed run party when you only have 20 minutes?

Has anyone commented in 18 pages that 2 of the 3 dungeons have very limited potential for speedruns as it is?

Seems SE has made the system so that speedrun fans have an option but that people who don't like it, for whatever reason, have their options too.

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Originally Posted by Hiroradius

But why spend 2 hours trying to set-up a speed run party when you only have 20 minutes?

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On Behemoth there's 5-10 Bray SRs in the PF pretty much at all times. Takes 2 seconds. Not to mention everyone in the DF is doing it anyway.

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Originally Posted by Moqi

Because I'm not in a hurry. I like to take detours, looking around for details I have missed in my previous runs, chatting and joking with the party... I want to experience the dungeon, not go in, dump my heals, and get my tomes on the way out like a worker in an assembly line.

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Then get out of the random finder and go play with friends. The random tool isn't there to facilitate your exploration at the expense of 4-7 other people. It's there to match up people who want to COMPLETE a dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Memoe

I think it would help a lot if SE took out the time limit for a dungeon. The ticking clock (while plenty) gives the whole thing a rushey feeling. You're not supposed to stay in and chat pleasantly - you're on a duty and you have to make it fast!

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Don't forget that the first dungeon when you hit 50. Wanderers palace forces you to move at a brisk pace to avoid the huge tonberry following.

your not a tank, change your class. speed runs help everyone get Tomes, saves time. But I do get your point.

lol... eff all that not everyone has all day to play, wife, kids, work, school, speed runs or nothing. dont like em? dont join em. dont wanna chance doing one? set up pf and say normal runs. simple as that.

I would like optional objectives in Dungeons, they can slow the pace and offer rewards. Using Brayflox as an example:

Defeat every mob: +10 Solidery
Allow 3 adds to spawn for the first boss then kill them: +5 Soldiery
Open every chest: +5 Solidery
Defeat the Gobbie beak before the mob that summons them, then defeat the gobbie that summons them: +5 Soldiery
Blow up the big bomb on the final boss: +5 Solidery.

Takes much longer per run to do these objectives, but you get something out of it. Or SE could just iLVL sync everyone doing to level 50 or whatever. No more pulling a million mobs at once.

Solution to stop speed running; uninstall, turn off the computer, go outside.

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Originally Posted by Moqi

Because I'm not in a hurry. I like to take detours, looking around for details I have missed in my previous runs, chatting and joking with the party... I want to experience the dungeon, not go in, dump my heals, and get my tomes on the way out like a worker in an assembly line.

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But what about the people who don't want to do this? Why do your wants and needs take precedent over the wants and needs of others? This is the ultimate fallacy of the argument to stop speed runs - You argue that you're being denied your right to play the dungeon in the way you would like to, yet you would impose rules that deny others the right to play the dungeon the way they want to. DF runs are designed to be dynamic. You adapt to the wants and needs of the party (at that point in time) and run it a little differently to what you may have anticipated, or you leave and create your own groups with like minded people. That's the beauty of the PF system.

(also not using you as specifically you, but those with the general attitude that SRs are inherently bad and should be banned)

... this thread needs to get locked. By the time everyone realise the problem is not SR itself, next patch will be up and no one will worry about it any more.




Ugh!

Personally i think what they need to do is not scale you to the dungeon but scale the dungeon to you, and release two versions of the dungeon at the same time, release the normal mode that gives a good reward but really isnt comparable to the following hard mode. then release a hard mode that can only be cleared with difficulty at say i90 gear or better and then GET RID OF rowena as a vender of tome gear, and have that gear drop from the corresponding hardmode dungeons, but if they do this they need to get rid of the lock outs like we have in coils, or if they have to have a lock out well go the CT route but to me lock outs suck and only kill my enjoyment of the game.

but also if they go this route i think they should add maybe one or two more chests to the bosses as that way you dont have the insanity that is say ct where you you grind for 1 week and dont get the items you want or something for your class. It is just a thought based on they way dungeons work in another game i play, that i think could improve this game and make gear more progress based and it would get rid of speed running like this insanity,hopefully

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Originally Posted by Sax

Why do your wants and needs take precedent over the wants and needs of others?

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I never said that!? Nicobo asked why anyone wouldn't want to speedrun and I answered. I say upfront that I don't want to speedrun if people ask. If they still want to, I leave. My queues are fast, I don't care.

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Originally Posted by Moqi

I never said that!? Nicobo asked why anyone wouldn't want to speedrun and I answered. I say upfront that I don't want to speedrun if people ask. If they still want to, I leave. My queues are fast, I don't care.

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That's why I said not you in particular, rather those with the general attitude that SRs are inherently bad and should be banned.

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Originally Posted by Moqi

I say upfront that I don't want to speedrun if people ask. If they still want to, I leave. My queues are fast, I don't care.

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And the queues for the DPS that also joined your run are not, and i assure you they care. I hope you hold no ill will against tanks that want speedruns bailing on undergeared DPS parties because frankly, your view is not much different.

the dps in the party you leave because you don't care were probably waiting for 30minutes and now have to leave and re-que for another 30 minutes, because you're using a random system hoping to get predictable results.. talk about selfish

The problem isn't really with speed runs. What I think it really is, is the players who feel the need to strip the game down to an "efficient", bare-minimum formula to be repeated ad-nauseum until goals are met. That itself isn't a problem, but when it becomes the accepted standard, then it is. This sounds quite similar to the mindset/practices of players who log in on the first day after weekly resets, do weekly ex primals, run coil, myth/soldiery farm to caps, and log out for the week. . . THEN complain for lack of content or things to do. The content/activity is there, but if all you want to do is speed through it or race to the top, well, you're missing the trees for the forest.

Let's not sugarcoat this: If you want to fully experience a dungeon, you're entitled to that. If you want to speed run it, you're entitled to that. But neither preference can be held as standard. The moment you begin thinking this way, you're part of the problem. Speed runs? I don't like them. I hate them even more if I'm tanking, and if I'm healing, I seriously wish I could go on autopilot. Because nothing is more boring to me than a speed run. Still, I'll do it (not as a tank), because that way I can get it over and done with and get back to doing something more enjoyable, and without rushing through it.

I prefer speedruns because you're forced to see the same dungeon almost a dozen times every single week; again, I think that's part of the problem. Speedruns themselves I don't think are a problem, the only issue I really even see from this is for newer players who aren't geared enough (but are obviously trying to get enough gear) joining in a DF and it being expected of them to do a speedrun. Again, it comes down to communication. Although I don't have much sympathy as the last undergeared DPS I had in a Bray DF was wearing CP gear making even a normal run difficult... Grinding out soldiery cap every week is pretty much required at this point to do the other difficult content, and those who'd rather focus on Coil and stuff like that would rather get the soldiery garbage out of the way as quickly as possible. Killing trash mobs isn't very fun; doing it hundreds of times makes it even less fun.

I speedrun because I need a ridiculous amount of myth tomes for my books, and its the most efficient way to get them. But I hate doing it. It's boring and slowly driving me insane.

To stop speed runs, they need to make it so that speedrunning the same, single dungeon, over and over, isn't the most effective way earn myth tomes. They can do this by:

1) Not dropping tomes until the end of the dungeon, or dropping most of them upon completion.
2) Increase the amount of tomes you get from daily quests, and increase the amount of dailies you can do per day.
3) Make dungeons that are less speed-run friendly drop more tomes.
4) Don't put systems in the game that require grinding a ridiculous amount of the same item - make them more quest based.

You people against speed runs are like the cashiers at Macy's. I'm getting paid the same anyway no matter how slow or incompetent I am!

Add a Gangbang Buff - Gather up X# of mobs and they will gang up and do more damage.

Geez... people, read the thread before proposing fake solutions! SR is not a problem!! The problem is people, you, me and everyone. The solutions you are proposing must involve people or communications.

Solutions about changing game mechanics won't solve a single thing about SR, so stop posting them in this thread! Start a new one instead!

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Originally Posted by Byonka

Add a Gangbang Buff - Gather up X# of mobs and they will gang up and do more damage.

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You will not change the simple fact "I wanna do it the tastest way possible". But some people have issues when someone is faster than them, and they are only asking for "SLOW THEM !!!".

I'm trying to figure out what is wrong with wanting a speed run, even in PF. The only time I've ran into a problem was when the tank was an idiot and attempted a speed run with a fresh 50 healer. I'm not sure what the advantage is of killing things you don't need to kill. You should just go at whatever pace is comfortable for the group. Usually for my roulettes if I'm tanking I do a "modified" speed run, where it usually takes between 15-20 minutes. I pull 4 mobs, when 2 are dead I drag to the next group, and I keep doing this. It seems to work well for groups where not everyone is geared, but still allows us to kill everything quickly and efficiently. Not sure why you need to take longer than needed.

I don't get it. I just joined a Brayflox with 2 low geared DRG, I never tried to pull 10 mobs. But if they were 2 BLM, I would have done it. I don't understand the point of not doing something in the best way possible for a given group. That's like saysing "I could have done A+ for this exam, but I'd rather have a C".