Please give archer a dagger.

Why do you guys care so much about what archer's melee weapon is? You are never going to melee as an archer.

This is a serious question. I really would like to know.

Also, technically archers already have two types of weapons. Long bows and short bows. Short bows are more accurate, long bows have a better crit rate and stronger attack.

Shield is essentially a sub weapon for the classes that can use it.

So for the other classes. Why not~

kris for ARC
1 handed axe for MRD
nunchucks for PUG

meh?

The armory system should be no excuse.
Edit* ohyea they need a "guild" and a "class" and now a "job".... for every weapon in the game. design failure I guess.
stupid stupid design failure.

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

I completely understand how you all feel, but when considering the nature of the Armoury system and class/job balance, we are not able to implement this.

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Tanaka, tanaka, tanaka....... you miserable... old... fool...

Why didn't you just take FFXI, and fix the things that made people rage quit?

This armoury system is completely retarded. no sneak/invisible... what's to make FFXIV stand out from any other MMO out there?

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Originally Posted by Trocien

what's to make FFXIV stand out from any other MMO out there?

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Its got FF on the box.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

How will the archer mobs respond to players attacking them?

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"...Did that dude just kick me? What the hell man, I was eating!"

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Originally Posted by Kam

Edit* ohyea they need a "guild" and a "class" and now a "job".... for every weapon in the game. design failure I guess.
stupid stupid design failure.

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Guild = Class hub. Job = Specialization within a class. I don't see any design failure beyond the engine's lack of optimization for MMOs.

But in the end, people will complain about absolutely anything and everything insignificant.

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Originally Posted by Trocien

Tanaka, tanaka, tanaka....... you miserable... old... fool...

Why didn't you just take FFXI, and fix the things that made people rage quit?

This armoury system is completely retarded. no sneak/invisible... what's to make FFXIV stand out from any other MMO out there?

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Same with sneak and invis. Sure its handy for random exploration, but wouldnt it be MUCH more fun to just fight your way through the dungeon/area if possible? Either that or just edge around like normal?

Either way, one of the story NPCs already casts invisible on party members in a cutscene, so i'm sure that'll be implemented at some point...perhaps with arcanist.

Also FFXIV will (or at least should) stand out because of a focus on story as well as other fine touches to aesthetics such as the soundtrack, enemy details and cutscenes. Probably the same things that helped XI stand out, and after Yoshi and his team are finished, maybe more.

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Originally Posted by Trocien

Tanaka, tanaka, tanaka....... you miserable... old... fool...

Why didn't you just take FFXI, and fix the things that made people rage quit?

This armoury system is completely retarded. no sneak/invisible... what's to make FFXIV stand out from any other MMO out there?

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Because they wanted a game, not a remake. XI can have its remake after it becomes a classic adored by all.

I suggest you start convincing those fans, because most conventions I go to they just aren't that interested in MMO games, and traipse over the XI you hold so dear.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

How will the archer mobs respond to players attacking them? They will be at an immediate disadvantage the moment the fight begins, unable to use their abilities. Also, its clear the dev team wants each class, especially the battle class, to be distinguishable from each other. The wheel of warriors with different weapons, each making up for the others shortcomings, remember?

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Dont have a clue what you're trying to say lol could you rephrase?

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Originally Posted by viion

Dont have a clue what you're trying to say lol could you rephrase?

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Basically that Archers shouldn't be formidable fighters from both long and close range, and that they want/ are aiming for different classes/jobs to compliment each other in battle, not just be a mishmash over everything together/jack of all trades (for the most part anyway). At least thats what I got.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Because they wanted a game, not a remake. XI can have its remake after it becomes a classic adored by all.

I suggest you start convincing those fans, because most conventions I go to they just aren't that interested in MMO games, and traipse over the XI you hold so dear.

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Most assumed XIV would be a bigger and better FFXI, just like WoW was a bigger and "better" version of AO/UO. XI wouldn't have survived a decade and paid for numerous SE projects if it was that bad of a thing like people like to make it out to be whenever "FFXI-2/Remake/HD/Etc" is brought up.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Most assumed XIV would be a bigger and better FFXI, just like WoW was a bigger and "better" version of AO/UO. XI wouldn't have survived a decade and paid for numerous SE projects if it was that bad of a thing like people like to make it out to be whenever "FFXI-2/Remake/HD/Etc" is brought up.

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I'm just saying even the fans are split as to whether they even want to talk about it. Especially If 7 hasn't been remade yet.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Most assumed XIV would be a bigger and better FFXI, just like WoW was a bigger and "better" version of AO/UO. XI wouldn't have survived a decade and paid for numerous SE projects if it was that bad of a thing like people like to make it out to be whenever "FFXI-2/Remake/HD/Etc" is brought up.

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They assumed incorrectly. They also ignored the developers who were very clear in the fact this game was not going to be XI take 2.

I still play XI and I like the game. Like anyone else, there are things I don't like about it but, overall, I like it.

However, that is really neither here nor there because the intention with XIV was to create a game that appealed to a different demographic in the MMO player spectrum. Of course, SE can come in here and tell me I'm wrong if that is true. But it stands to reason they specifically wanted to create something that stood apart from XI as to not cannibalize their current player base. They want to add to their subscriber numbers, not divide the current base between two games. That wouldn't make any sense from any standpoint, especially a financial one.

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Originally Posted by Teknoman

Basically that Archers shouldn't be formidable fighters from both long and close range, and that they want/ are aiming for different classes/jobs to compliment each other in battle, not just be a mishmash over everything together/jack of all trades (for the most part anyway). At least thats what I got.

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For me im not even talking about giving them sub weapons, though the whole 1 to 1 weapon thing clearly is an excuse for things, when multi classes use sheilds and the 2 mage classes BOTH have staff and wand...but anyways

my agrument was for doing something different for ARC. I started a thread about it with a few ideas Like unlimited arrows (arrow + bow = full weapon) Giving some unlimited basic shot (weak arrows) ..ect.

There are better ways then just saying, ARC gets no auto attack, they can punch things.

If Chuck Norris was an ARC this would be a moot conversation. Chuck Norris attacks once. ONCE. Auto Attack just means you're within roundhouse distance.

Since he's not, and since it makes little conceptual sense for ARC to A) Punch B) Stab C) Roundhouse kick to the face, then either giving ARC ranged AA or creating a special action gauge just for them makes sense from a DPS perspective.

As has been said before, fixing ARC (and mage classes for that matter) is moot while every mob in the game doubles as ARC with devastating ranged attacks.

My closing thoughts: WTF ^(*W)UT+)U(#E^% were the devs thinking making every mob used ranged attacks?! I want some of what they were smoking. How did the final board meeting go the week before the game went live?

Tanaka: Everything is ready to rolllllllllllll!
Dev Team: But Mr. Tanaka, the battle UI hasn't..
Tanaka: ROLLLLLLLL!
Dev Team: And the maps sir, those were just what you drew on the back of a napkin, we never actually had the world map designer come in and..
Tanaka: HAHA! Fantastic.
Dev Team: It takes players 3-10 seconds to execute commands in battl..
Tanaka: (Thinking out loud) I wonder if it's possible to earn a Nobel prize for a video game.. I'll find out soon enough!
Dev Team: Sir all the mobs in the game use ranged attacks as well, making ranged DD/Mage classes useless..
Tanaka: (Sigh) But they can't use terrain advantage.. we learned from FFXI!
Dev Team: And that Centralized Economy plan we were still working on hasn't been put in...
Tanaka: ECONOMY?! There's plenty of economy. They farm many Marmot, they sell Marmot hide at NPC vendor! If they sell too much though, maybe we ban them for RMT (evil laugh)!
Dev Team: Can we at least put in the feature so they can manage linkshell administration anywhere in the worl..
Tanaka: NO! We talk face to face in this game! You no want me to fire you over the phone do you? NO! You want be fired face to face! In fact.. you FIRED! HAHA!

Two months later:
Tanaka wakes up violently at his desk: My god, that was some powerful Peyote.. (presses buzzer) Hey Carol, how has the game held up while I was in mushroom land? Did I get that Nobel nomination yet? (pause) WHAT? The players said what?! Amazon.com said WHAT? Game sells for $14 and no one will BUY it?! GameStop no carry it?!
..
(Inner reflection) I should really stop overseeing productions in a drug-riddled haze. Hey Nancy, who all from the Dev Team hasn't quit yet? Hmm.. Let's try this. I'll fall on my sword and we'll give this Yoshida slugger a chance.

Carol: My name is Carol sir.
Tanaka: Nancy make a note of that: her name is Carol. I have a hangover.

Maybe multi attack crossbows?

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Originally Posted by Teknoman

Basically that Archers shouldn't be formidable fighters from both long and close range, and that they want/ are aiming for different classes/jobs to compliment each other in battle, not just be a mishmash over everything together/jack of all trades (for the most part anyway). At least thats what I got.

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If you dont want Archers to compliment both close range and long range then dont give them a fist to fight with..............

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Originally Posted by Chocobits

If Chuck Norris was an ARC this would be a moot conversation. Chuck Norris attacks once. ONCE. Auto Attack just means you're within roundhouse distance.

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Post of the day.

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Originally Posted by viion

If you dont want Archers to compliment both close range and long range then dont give them a fist to fight with..............

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For someone who seems to prey on other's logic you seem to forget one crucial thing:

Just because something is set in front of you doesn't mean it will automatically be worthwhile to use. Even though you didn't play this MMO, FFXI allowed RDM's to use staffs -- however you knew better than to use it in melee because it wasn't worthwhile to do for that job. Archer's can punch but their strength logically lies within their ranged attack, not h2h combat.

If you did play FFXI, you should know better that it wasn't made to "compliment" both playstyles, it was given because their AA wasn't ranged attacks.

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Originally Posted by viion

If you dont want Archers to compliment both close range and long range then dont give them a fist to fight with..............

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God, or whichever of the Twelve they believe in gave them fists. You don't see Mages bar room brawling though.

wow you guys completely did not understand a thing i just said lol.

Aint even talking about the games lore or anything, someone's saying Archers shouldnt have close range and long range attacks thats why they shouldnt have daggers. So why give them fists? Its same thing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

Hey guys! We asked Matsui about adding daggers for archers to use when fighting close range. He replied:



You are just going to have to learn how to strike first, strike hard, and give no mercy. ;)

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Now we talking! It was about time for SE to start saying what they want and what they don't want in this game! ^^ This is the correct reply style i wanted from start...he said no and that's it. ^^

EDIT: Viion! Ask bow bonking then! ^^ Because it is correct in not having daggers IMO...bow is a 2-handed weapon AND a main weapon so it neither can be moved to ranged slot orhaving daggers equipped offhand.

But ther is another option...crossbows are archer weapon too...the 1-handed ones. If/when they add crossbows ARCs will be able to equip stuff at off-hand, like possible "offhand daggers" or shields.

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Originally Posted by Malakhim

Woah guys.

Thief + boomerang.

Mind. Blowing.

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boomerangs are awesome by definition.

also i think people have missed the most obvious solution, why dont they just melee with there bow, they're big enough. <bow bash>

sorry lienn i just read your post and you mention bow bonking.

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

what I really don't get is.....

Why are Archers complaining about close range auto attack, when they should not even be in melee range to begin with -.-

If you play it right Archers are the top DD class, but are controlled by no AA and ammunition. I think what WoW did (taking away limited ammunition) was a very stupid idea.

Like others have said, if there was ranged AA, there would be no control when it comes to damage output, or consumption, and that would ruin Archer.

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Because we all know how mobs love to stay just outside of melee reach so we can keep shooting them amirite?

It will likely either
A) use bow's stats anyways, with the punch just as a cosmetic gesture.
B) be pretty weak/inconsequential, with the entire act of close range AA being inferior to arrows anyways.
Either way, clamoring for a cosmetic alteration can come later. Not really much stopping it now.

I'm starting to question if anyone in this thread has ever used a Bow and Arrow..

1. You can't use a bow like a club, you wont be able to grip it right
2. If you want to rapidly pull out a dagger you would have to throw your bow or arrow to the ground to use it
3. If something ran at you while you were preparing to draw an arrow you would either shoot them or punch them, you would not look for a second weapon...

I know its a Fantasy Game people, but it still has to ad hear to some laws of physics..

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Originally Posted by Wynn

Archers have several abilities that bind mobs. They have those abilities specifically so they can get distance between them and what they are trying to kill.

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Oh you mean the abilities that wear off when the monster is shot? And the ones that have a low rate of taking effect? Okay. Thanks for reminding me that out of 10 attacks, the monster will be bound twice.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

I'm starting to question if anyone in this thread has ever used a Bow and Arrow..

1. You can't use a bow like a club, you wont be able to grip it right
2. If you want to rapidly pull out a dagger you would have to throw your bow or arrow to the ground to use it
3. If something ran at you while you were preparing to draw an arrow you would either shoot them or punch them, you would not look for a second weapon...

I know its a Fantasy Game people, but it still has to ad hear to some laws of physics..

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1) certain types of bows can be swung like a club, not all of them are like D's
2)no...no you dont, you can hold the bow in 1 hand (they arent super heavy on purpose btw, you need 1 hand to grab the arrow lol) and a dagger is meant to be used by 1 hand and quickly.
3) its a video game and you DONT have to follow any laws....hence the fantasy and video game part

If anything id use the arrow to jab the guy in the face...but they didnt do that so...

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Originally Posted by Zanfire

1) certain types of bows can be swung like a club, not all of them are like D's
2)no...no you dont, you can hold the bow in 1 hand (they arent super heavy on purpose btw, you need 1 hand to grab the arrow lol) and a dagger is meant to be used by 1 hand and quickly.
3) its a video game and you DONT have to follow any laws....hence the fantasy and video game part

If anything id use the arrow to jab the guy in the face...but they didnt do that so...

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fighting with an arrow will in general be weaker than fighting h2h, it will basically ruin or break most arrows, and destroy thier fitness as a weapon, it would also take too long to get it into a decent fighting position. You get the same problem with a dagger, though it is designed better, and with the right type of sheathe you can probably get it out decent speed. but the fist will adapt the fastest between firing and fighting, requring no sheathing at all.

But its still pretty weak, and most likely the damage will either be based on the bow only, or the arrow only, or neither.

Posting a positive post
"^ _^"
Archer's shouldn't be up close at melee range IMO

eh....if multishot is untouched then i'll finish the fight before it even starts...wont need a Melee attack :P

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Originally Posted by Physic

fighting with an arrow will in general be weaker than fighting h2h, it will basically ruin or break most arrows, and destroy thier fitness as a weapon, it would also take too long to get it into a decent fighting position. You get the same problem with a dagger, though it is designed better, and with the right type of sheathe you can probably get it out decent speed. but the fist will adapt the fastest between firing and fighting, requring no sheathing at all.

But its still pretty weak, and most likely the damage will either be based on the bow only, or the arrow only, or neither.

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well of course over a long fight, i wouldnt just use the arrow outright, but as a reaction id use that, by then id be able to get back to w/e fight form i so choose. Its still a video game, so they can do what they want and not have to be realistic about it....i dont want realistic, i want a fantasy video game.

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Originally Posted by Kam

Yeah I dont get how 3 classes in the game can equip shield, and be defensive/offencive with it. Seems to work pretty well.

Why add not a complimentary sub-weapon for ALL classes. Nunchucks for PUG is a GREAT idea for one :3

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Equipping a shield gives you the secondary class "Sentinel."

Furthermore, auto-attacking as an archer?

-It would waste arrows if it was a ranged auto-attack.
-If it was infinite, weak arrows, you could just power them up with all your buffs and such and have free arrows.
-Archers should be less "LET'S SPAM EVERYTHING" and more "let's get the strongest shot possible at the perfect moment."
-The difference between using a dagger and a fist would be purely visual.
-Gladiators already use daggers, so they'd have to take them off Gladiators
-A thief class should be using daggers
-It would generate enmity in parties and you don't want that
-It would waste your buffs on auto-attacks rather than skills

EDIT: As for "both CON and THM use staffs and wands"

THM uses scepters and staffs, Con uses radicals and wands.

There was one suggestion I think would be good, make it when an Archer equips a bow they sort of wear a one-handed cesti or bladed knuckle-like object. You know, sort of like a glove, but has a small spike on the end of it so you can effectively "stab" an enemy with your free hand when up close. Auto-attack for Archers should still do a decent amount of damage maybe 60% of our regular attack power now with an unbuffed single light shot arrow with a very short delay. Hopefully the recast timer between using Light, Close, and Heavy Shots won't be very long, or shared. As it stands my regular arrows (unbuffed) do about the same if not a little more than what I've seen a lancer I duo with do in a regular attack.

i vote no.
why should arc need a melee atk?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kiote

I'm starting to question if anyone in this thread has ever used a Bow and Arrow..

1. You can't use a bow like a club, you wont be able to grip it right
2. If you want to rapidly pull out a dagger you would have to throw your bow or arrow to the ground to use it
3. If something ran at you while you were preparing to draw an arrow you would either shoot them or punch them, you would not look for a second weapon...

I know its a Fantasy Game people, but it still has to ad hear to some laws of physics..

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Not like a club, more like a bow staff.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kiote

I'm starting to question if anyone in this thread has ever used a Bow and Arrow..

1. You can't use a bow like a club, you wont be able to grip it right
2. If you want to rapidly pull out a dagger you would have to throw your bow or arrow to the ground to use it
3. If something ran at you while you were preparing to draw an arrow you would either shoot them or punch them, you would not look for a second weapon...

I know its a Fantasy Game people, but it still has to ad hear to some laws of physics..

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http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__...ls_catgirl.gif

I still say they should kick 'em back Bulletstorm style for their auto-attack.

i still say beat um in the face with the bow like the pink ranger does in the SNES power ranger game. Beaten some arse she did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znzS6g9Q8v8
3:20 ~ if you want to see the pownage lol.