Plan to remove benefit for failing leves?

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

Probably not. The only way the system can be fixed is to do away with the random nature of how leves become available. A 5k sp boost for completion alone won't do it.

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I don't play as much as some of you, but these really great SP leves, is it a matter of just a few kills reaping a boatload of SP or is it the sheer number of enemies that add up to a lot of SP?

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Originally Posted by normalforce

I don't play as much as some of you, but these really great SP leves, is it a matter of just a few kills reaping a boatload of SP or is it the sheer number of enemies that add up to a lot of SP?

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Typically, the leves we choose to fail are the 'wild goose chase' type. They generally have a random number of pops. The large SP rewards per kill come from linking 3 times (max links) which requires everyone in the party to have the same leve. Dunesfolk for Dinner is the best one, where in a party of 4 and max links and the most efficient difficulty setting nets 1125 sp per dog without fatigue and with GA active.

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Originally Posted by normalforce

I don't play as much as some of you, but these really great SP leves, is it a matter of just a few kills reaping a boatload of SP or is it the sheer number of enemies that add up to a lot of SP?

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the mobs don't give more there are just more enemy's. you could all link and GA devilet if you want and waste you 3 leves per36 hours and your slowly regenerating GA on a crap leve you you want. part of this game is organizing with your friends and why should someone be penalized for having a well organized group to run leves with, because they have chosen the best leves. That would be like saying if your gonna grind mobs you have to kill the ones that give the least amount of sp cause killing the high sp mobs over and over again is exploiting the system. SE is the one who cam up with the leve system, the linking system, the stars, and the ability to fail and then pick up the same leve again. Maybe we should have to always put the leves on one star cause 4-5 gives to much sp. were does it end.

Wow this post is beyond dumb.. People do this so there not grinding there face on mobs that give bs SP, + your loosing on gil, factions, marks for SP its a arm for a arm. So b4 people start running and crying to SE know it's not an exploit your really hurting your self to level more which is fine for allot of players who don't want to face roll grind for hours. And odd's are if your not doing the stack leves for SP you can't come cry about them. go troll in the city's about how bad the game is and let the people playing the game play effectively and tactically and have a good time. It's post like these that make SE get rid of things that could possibly be in this game. " Oh cry cry i don't want a chocobo i want a flying mount " " cry cry i hate walking " " cry cry nothing to see around the zones " remarkable the selfishness..

SE stick with the Final Fantasy way's stick to your guns and make this MMO happen and stop listening to the cry babies.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

the mobs don't give more there are just more enemy's. you could all link and GA devilet if you want and waste you 3 leves per36 hours and your slowly regenerating GA on a crap leve you you want. part of this game is organizing with your friends and why should someone be penalized for having a well organized group to run leves with, because they have chosen the best leves. That would be like saying if your gonna grind mobs you have to kill the ones that give the least amount of sp cause killing the high sp mobs over and over again is exploiting the system. SE is the one who cam up with the leve system, the linking system, the stars, and the ability to fail and then pick up the same leve again. Maybe we should have to always put the leves on one star cause 4-5 gives to much sp. were does it end.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

Typically, the leves we choose to fail are the 'wild goose chase' type. They generally have a random number of pops. The large SP rewards per kill come from linking 3 times (max links) which requires everyone in the party to have the same leve. Dunesfolk for Dinner is the best one, where in a party of 4 and max links and the most efficient difficulty setting nets 1125 sp per dog without fatigue and with GA active.

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Thanks, you two. That's a large amount of SP that I wouldn't want to give up, given the choice.

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Originally Posted by normalforce

Thanks, you two. That's a large amount of SP that I wouldn't want to give up, given the choice.

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Now, multiply the total SP gained from one leve by up to 8 and you can see how it's entirely possible to get two ranks in a single leve run depending on your starting rank and the number of people in your party. Repeat that every 36 hours and you quickly realize that no other method of grinding even comes close. Why the hell would anyone want to grind on coblyns for 150 sp each until they pass out, when they don't need to with a little bit of coordination and planning?

Another fix to this, SE Could bump up field monster sp to be that of:

Field monster SP = ( Guildleve monster SP + 60% for each extra member up to 3 extra members) - 20%)

Means you will get slightly less SP for field monsters than the highest link guildleve monster, leaving guildleves to be the 36hr bonus SP round.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

Now, multiply the total SP gained from one leve by up to 8 and you can see how it's entirely possible to get two ranks in a single leve run depending on your starting rank and the number of people in your party. Repeat that every 36 hours and you quickly realize that no other method of grinding even comes close. Why the hell would anyone want to grind on coblyns for 150 sp each until they pass out, when they don't need to with a little bit of coordination and planning?

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coordination and planning, exactly. I think thats why some people get so upset, because they feel left out. They havent the will nor the drive to assemble a group that can execute such a plan. Its not like were standing in a line that hands out sp, you have to work for it. And beings you can only do it every 36 hours it leves time to level other classes or partake in the endless amount of content(joking). The people who are complaing are the ones that want to tag along with your group and all they have to offer is the devilet inside,"can i come".

Jep, i haven't been able to read all pages, but that abandon leve trick has to me the biggest benefit, which is time. I'm in a static and we do 5 abandon leves each reset. We gain about 60-90k, depending on guardian and fatigue, in 2.15hr-2.30hr. When you don't have much time to play, but want to tag along to be able to do HL events with your guild and that way being able to have fun, i don't see why this 'trick is bad'. It's an opportunity.

Sure, ppl who don't have a group to do it, can be annoyed, but there are plenty of shouts or ppl needing a few members.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

coordination and planning, exactly. I think thats why some people get so upset, because they feel left out. They havent the will nor the drive to assemble a group that can execute such a plan. Its not like were standing in a line that hands out sp, you have to work for it. And beings you can only do it every 36 hours it leves time to level other classes or partake in the endless amount of content(joking). The people who are complaing are the ones that want to tag along with your group and all they have to offer is the devilet inside,"can i come".

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Now here's the crazy part, me and my LS get so much flak on fabul, presumably for failing leves so often. The kicker is that I don't run the LS in a way that's exclusionary to anyone. (Almost) Anyone can join my LS, and everyone in the LS is invited to the leve runs regardless of whether or not they have the leves, we stop at each leve desk in order for folks to get the fail leves that they might be missing.

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Originally Posted by Minidrax

Jep, i haven't been able to read all pages, but that abandon leve trick has to me the biggest benefit, which is time. I'm in a static and we do 5 abandon leves each reset. We gain about 60-90k, depending on guardian and fatigue, in 2.15hr-2.30hr. When you don't have much time to play, but want to tag along to be able to do HL events with your guild and that way being able to have fun, i don't see why this 'trick is bad'. It's an opportunity.

Sure, ppl who don't have a group to do it, can be annoyed, but there are plenty of shouts or ppl needing a few members.

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and that's the other reason to fail leves, time. In our case, we're a social LS, as such most of our members don't have time to play 8 hours a day, but we do have 2:30 to play every 36 hours. To make any significant progress in that amount of time, leve failing is our only option.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

coordination and planning, exactly. I think thats why some people get so upset, because they feel left out. They havent the will nor the drive to assemble a group that can execute such a plan. Its not like were standing in a line that hands out sp, you have to work for it. And beings you can only do it every 36 hours it leves time to level other classes or partake in the endless amount of content(joking). The people who are complaing are the ones that want to tag along with your group and all they have to offer is the devilet inside,"can i come".

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The presumption is hilarious.

I find it interesting anytime someone says something negative it is based on jealousy or an inability to do "something". Seems to be the calling card of so many people unable to argue merits rather then relying on emotion.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

Now here's the crazy part, me and my LS get so much flak on fabul, presumably for failing leves so often. The kicker is that I don't run the LS in a way that's exclusionary to anyone. (Almost) Anyone can join my LS, and everyone in the LS is invited to the leve runs regardless of whether or not they have the leves, we stop at each leve desk in order for folks to get the fail leves that they might be missing.

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i do not run the LS im in but i do form many or the leve groups and i also allow anyone to join that is friend/acquaintance of mine. I also will do the bw3 and still grab the additional 3 that are offered and run them also. And even if it is the devilet inside with no links ill still run it. But many groups do exclude people that dont have bw3 cause thats all they run. I joined a JP group last week and it was bw3 in and out, no messing around.

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

The presumption is hilarious.

I find it interesting anytime someone says something negative it is based on jealousy or an inability to do "something". Seems to be the calling card of so many people unable to argue merits rather then relying on emotion.

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What other reason could there be? I'm asking in earnest, because how does my leve failing have anything to do with anyone that's not in my party?

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

What other reason could there be? I'm asking in earnest, because how does my leve failing have anything to do with anyone that's not in my party?

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Are you asking me as a fellow poster in general or as a fellow Fabulian?

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

The presumption is hilarious.

I find it interesting anytime someone says something negative it is based on jealousy or an inability to do "something". Seems to be the calling card of so many people unable to argue merits rather then relying on emotion.

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also, notice i write "some people" would you argue that there is not one person out there that this blanket statement would cover.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

What other reason could there be? I'm asking in earnest, because how does my leve failing have anything to do with anyone that's not in my party?

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and it is the reason too

why else would people be arguing about exclusion(alot of them are)

the other half of it argues the morality of it

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

i do not run the LS im in but i do form many or the leve groups and i also allow anyone to join that is friend/acquaintance of mine. I also will do the bw3 and still grab the additional 3 that are offered and run them also. And even if it is the devilet inside with no links ill still run it. But many groups do exclude people that dont have bw3 cause thats all they run. I joined a JP group last week and it was bw3 in and out, no messing around.

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I can see the reason for hating on groups that do operate in an exclusionary manner, but for those that don't such as Abaddon, it doesn't make any sense.

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

Are you asking me as a fellow poster in general or as a fellow Fabulian?

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Well, both I suppose.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

Well, both I suppose.

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Fair enough, I'll speak with utmost veracity then.

As I stated to you before under more heated circumstances I "nothing you". Yes, it was meant to be cutting in part but it was also the truth summed up into a tight package. The truth is in the sense of I don't care what you or any other LS does on Fabul or any server. I don't say that in the sense of spite but rather I am a person who is very much a live and let live kind of guy as long as it doesn't effect me. I don't want to mess with people - it makes our server look petty and bad. So what you do with your LS doesn't bother me all that much. Why would it? We don't ever interact as far as I am aware. This is why, last time you and I argued I asked you, I asked you to show me where I had ever said a negative thing about you or Abbadon publicly. I hadn't because, as aforementioned, I don't care all that much.

In essence I can kind of speak for others (others being several other LSes on Fabul) that Abaddon isn't liked not because of anything other then you are seen as an arrogant (fill in what word you like). Not because of this bizarre blip in the system. Again, I am not taking a shot at you - I am in earnest telling you why. It has nothing or very little to do with the leve run failing system. Frankly, anyone can do it and many people had been doing it since IC stumbled upon it (which is who I was referencing last time). Theres nothing exclusive there in a good or bad way.

Generally speaking I don't like it because its very simple to me. It's rewarding failure and it shouldn't be there. People are going to do whats the fastest and most efficient. You can't blame a person for that. Hell, I have even started to try it after getting 3 battle jobs to 50 "the old fashion" way. Yet still, I want it gone. I simply do not like the idea of rewarding failure. Its a simplistic view for me (and a simplistic argument) and wish it gone. The game is too easy and getting to 50 is absurdly easy like this. I want challenge and a feel of accomplishment and unless they start changing things from how cozy it is now to something worth a damn the game will never truly pick up.

Thats my opinion in short.

I'm gonna keep my response a little shorter then yours so sorry if i leave out any juicy details. Failing the leves does not reward failure. It does the exact opposite. The reward is what you get at the end when you finish the leve gil, gear,items, faction credits. These are all thing that you do not get when you fail the leve. For every mob defeated we get sp(whether in a leve or not) so how are you considering the sp a reward. Its not like were running past the mobs and the sp lands on us as we run...

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

Fair enough, I'll speak with utmost veracity then.

As I stated to you before under more heated circumstances I "nothing you". Yes, it was meant to be cutting in part but it was also the truth summed up into a tight package. The truth is in the sense of I don't care what you or any other LS does on Fabul or any server. I don't say that in the sense of spite but rather I am a person who is very much a live and let live kind of guy as long as it doesn't effect me. I don't want to mess with people - it makes our server look petty and bad. So what you do with your LS doesn't bother me all that much. Why would it? We don't ever interact as far as I am aware. This is why, last time you and I argued I asked you, I asked you to show me where I had ever said a negative thing about you or Abbadon publicly. I hadn't because, as aforementioned, I don't care all that much.

In essence I can kind of speak for others (others being several other LSes on Fabul) that Abaddon isn't liked not because of anything other then you are seen as an arrogant (fill in what word you like). Not because of this bizarre blip in the system. Again, I am not taking a shot at you - I am in earnest telling you why. It has nothing or very little to do with the leve run failing system. Frankly, anyone can do it and many people had been doing it since IC stumbled upon it (which is who I was referencing last time). Theres nothing exclusive there in a good or bad way.

Generally speaking I don't like it because its very simple to me. It's rewarding failure and it shouldn't be there. People are going to do whats the fastest and most efficient. You can't blame a person for that. Hell, I have even started to try it after getting 3 battle jobs to 50 "the old fashion" way. Yet still, I want it gone. I simply do not like the idea of rewarding failure. Its a simplistic view for me (and a simplistic argument) and wish it gone. The game is too easy and getting to 50 is absurdly easy like this. I want challenge and a feel of accomplishment and unless they start changing things from how cozy it is now to something worth a damn the game will never truly pick up.

Thats my opinion in short.

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

Fair enough, I'll speak with utmost veracity then.

As I stated to you before under more heated circumstances I "nothing you". Yes, it was meant to be cutting in part but it was also the truth summed up into a tight package. The truth is in the sense of I don't care what you or any other LS does on Fabul or any server. I don't say that in the sense of spite but rather I am a person who is very much a live and let live kind of guy as long as it doesn't effect me. I don't want to mess with people - it makes our server look petty and bad. So what you do with your LS doesn't bother me all that much. Why would it? We don't ever interact as far as I am aware. This is why, last time you and I argued I asked you, I asked you to show me where I had ever said a negative thing about you or Abbadon publicly. I hadn't because, as aforementioned, I don't care all that much.

In essence I can kind of speak for others (others being several other LSes on Fabul) that Abaddon isn't liked not because of anything other then you are seen as an arrogant (fill in what word you like). Not because of this bizarre blip in the system. Again, I am not taking a shot at you - I am in earnest telling you why. It has nothing or very little to do with the leve run failing system. Frankly, anyone can do it and many people had been doing it since IC stumbled upon it (which is who I was referencing last time). Theres nothing exclusive there in a good or bad way.

Generally speaking I don't like it because its very simple to me. It's rewarding failure and it shouldn't be there. People are going to do whats the fastest and most efficient. You can't blame a person for that. Hell, I have even started to try it after getting 3 battle jobs to 50 "the old fashion" way. Yet still, I want it gone. I simply do not like the idea of rewarding failure. Its a simplistic view for me (and a simplistic argument) and wish it gone. The game is too easy and getting to 50 is absurdly easy like this. I want challenge and a feel of accomplishment and unless they start changing things from how cozy it is now to something worth a damn the game will never truly pick up.

Thats my opinion in short.

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I wish we could send PMs here, but since we can't here goes. (Sorry to everyone else for derailing this thread)

Fair enough, in that case I apologize for calling you a douche in said conversation. As I tried to say in that convo, maybe those people see me as arrogant, but the truth is I' a down to earth guy and am extremely laid back, as anyone in Abaddon can attest to. I am however, a cynic. Don't confuse my cynicism as arrogance, it's only an attempt to get a laugh.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

im gonna keep my response a little shorter then yours so sorry if i leave out any juicy details. Failing the leves does not reward failure.

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It does. No amount of semantics or technicalities changes that. The reward is you get the same best SP giving leves in a row guaranteed. The gil is meaningless because you don't fail every single leve. You make plenty off the others. The faction points are equally as meaningless since you can simply buy the items if you even want to bother to with how crappy they are.

Semantics doesn't change it one bit.

This even being a conversation shows how fail the leveling system in the game really is. Too bad I don't ever see them removing the focus away from leve leveling to a more real quest based style of leveling that introduces us to the entire game by going to all the diff camps and not just 3-4 camps out of the entire world.

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Originally Posted by Burn

This even being a conversation shows how fail the leveling system in the game really is. Too bad I don't ever see them removing the focus away from leve leveling to a more real quest based style of leveling that introduces us to the entire game by going to all the diff camps and not just 3-4 camps out of the entire world.

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For what it's worth, I plan to search for guild marks at every camp systematically after I hit 50 on all my battle classes. In doing so, I'll inevitably hit all the 'neglected' camps.

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

It does. No amount of semantics or technicalities changes that. The reward is you get the same best SP giving leves in a row guaranteed. The gil is meaningless because you don't fail every single leve. You make plenty off the others. The faction points are equally as meaningless since you can simply buy the items if you even want to bother to with how crappy they are.

Semantics doesn't change it one bit.

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First off i didn't design the game nor the reward system, i dot however play whiten the guidelines. It is not my fault the rewards suck, but Ive never heard of the sp you get from killing mobs as a reward. In your definition of reward grinding would also be frowned upon. Killing the same enemy over and over because of the good sp. Im sure you ranked to 50 killing nothing but marmot's but the the rest of us we play the game the way it was designed and if they take the leves away or change the others i will continue to analyze the game and figure out the best way to get sp. The devs have even said that they don't consider it to break any rules of exploitation so I dont see how you think you have an argument.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

First off i didn't design the game nor the reward system, i dot however play whiten the guidelines. It is not my fault the rewards suck, but Ive never heard of the sp you get from killing mobs as a reward. In your definition of reward grinding would also be frowned upon. Killing the same enemy over and over because of the good sp. Im sure you ranked to 50 killing nothing but marmot's but the the rest of us we play the game the way it was designed and if they take the leves away or change the others i will continue to analyze the game and figure out the best way to get sp. The devs have even said that they don't consider it to break any rules of exploitation so I dont see how you think you have an argument.

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Semantics. Knock it off.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

I wish we could send PMs here, but since we can't here goes. (Sorry to everyone else for derailing this thread)

Fair enough, in that case I apologize for calling you a douche in said conversation. As I tried to say in that convo, maybe those people see me as arrogant, but the truth is I' a down to earth guy and am extremely laid back, as anyone in Abaddon can attest to. I am however, a cynic. Don't confuse my cynicism as arrogance, it's only an attempt to get a laugh.

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Apology accepted. As I said before it has nothing to do with leve failing why you guys get so much crap. Its the perception of "things" seen as arrogant mentioned before by many people. I don't want to get into it not because of derailing the thread but of not wanting to come across as scolding you or whatnot: in particular in public where anyone would feel the need to save face (which would be understandable).

Ah well, hopefully we can all draw some lines in the sand and not step on each others toes.

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

It does. No amount of semantics or technicalities changes that. The reward is you get the same best SP giving leves in a row guaranteed. The gil is meaningless because you don't fail every single leve. You make plenty off the others. The faction points are equally as meaningless since you can simply buy the items if you even want to bother to with how crappy they are.

Semantics doesn't change it one bit.

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ok let me ask something. this is not meant to be a flame or an argument.

player a runes dunes and fails. he gets the sp from every mob he kills, but leaves the last mob so he misses that sp. he abandons the leve and the leve ends. by linking the payer loses a percentage of sp per kill. the overall goes up, but with 4 people they lose over 1 full mob worth of sp over doing it 4 times.

player b runes the leve and completes. he gets the sp from every mob he kills. he kills all mobs and completes the leve. after completing he gets gil, guild rewards, items, and faction credits.

if both player a and player b runs the same leve and both kill the same mobs then the rewards for finishing the leve are the stuff you get at the end. they both got the sp off of each mob they killed. how is one any different than the other as far as sp goes? it's determined that the overall sp does drop by linking over running it 4 times. they were already punished by giving up 120%-160% of the sp for one kill by max links and the rewards that are given at the end.

I feel that one of the issues that causes us to "fail" leves (and while I'm guilty, I still do it so I can get a group when I get online) is the limiting nature that is the guildleve.

People have brought it up before, but I ask, would there be a need to fail a leve if you were guaranteed that leve each and every time? If all leves were opened up at each camp and you could pick and choose, then you wouldn't need to worry about too much coordination between group mates.

(I would vote that there would be more leves at each camp, but that's for another thread)

Then if you could pick any leve you want per reset, then it comes down to the rewards and the amount of sp that is made per leve itself.

If I was able to login and get in a party, I wouldn't worry about focusing on Dunesfolk or the other popular leves, because my party could then decide which leves we want to run... For gear, gil, sp, or what have you. However, being the way the current system is setup I want to grab these leves and fail, so the next time I'm online I am able to get into a party.

Most of the issues that the game is facing come from it's limiting nature by design. Yoshi-P and team are working to correct this, but for the time being this is what we have. Hopefully over the next few patches, more content will be introduced and more things that help us level up will come into play. I wouldn't mind the 36 hour reset, if there were other ways to level besides the traditional party grid (which I'm all for, but the rewards/balance needs to be on par with leves if not slightly under)...

Just think about it, you login to play, you go and grab some leves, and set your LFP flag, and while you wait for a party, you find that there is some battle going down at X location. You head out there, and start helping the company hold back the empire. From here you are auto-teamed up with fellow players and after the battle, you decided to run some leves. Since you already got some, they go pick up the same ones and your off to camp.

Image if you will if you were able to queue up for a dungeon run, or some pvp content, or defend the city... And all of these actions help you level up. If those things existed, a 36 hour leve reset would almost come to fast for the average gamer, but as it sits now if I'm able to play two days in a row I have a blast on day one and spend day two trying to find things to do.

Sorry for the length of this post, I just got on a tangent there.

And.... Molly defends failing leves once again so that leve abandoning can be a reason to hold a 200 person linkshell together. I doubt all the r30s spamming levinshower are really interested in your end game failings. At least you stopped calling people names like "douche".

Personally I think anyone who looks down on people for abandoning a leve are just dumb...Because you see your way as the "moral" thing to do, does not make you any better for doing it that way. The fact of the matter is, your just stubborn and can't grip the fact that it's the way for the most SP and to ensure that you have the same leve over and over again. Let me say congratu-f-ing-lations for completing leves! You're the man or woman! In reality most people don't have as much time as others to play this game. For that fact most will "analyze" (syntax) the game and look for the way to best spend their time on the game and progress. I'm surprised everyone doesn't do it this way, because there is no cheating involved when your still doing the leves and waiting for resets. All your doing is maximizing your time playing the game and progressing which I thought is what everyone does...No one called it cheating or exploiting in FFXI when people started to do BLM PTs or TP Burn PTs. If it's in the game and available there should be no conflict...good luck to yah.

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Originally Posted by Raze

And.... Molly defends failing leves once again so that leve abandoning can be a reason to hold a 200 person linkshell together. I doubt all the r30s spamming levinshower are really interested in your end game failings. At least you stopped calling people names like "douche".

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I don't think Molly is the only one defending leve failing...... most of the people that play this game defend it. There is but a small resistance against it.

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Originally Posted by Burn

This even being a conversation shows how fail the leveling system in the game really is. Too bad I don't ever see them removing the focus away from leve leveling to a more real quest based style of leveling that introduces us to the entire game by going to all the diff camps and not just 3-4 camps out of the entire world.

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Quest Based Leveling Is the Sole reason why people in WoW-like games do not party together outside of raids. When you have a Quest based leveling system players have to waste so much time ensuring they all have the same quests that it becomes too much effort to deal with. Quest based leveling also ensures that any player can level from 1 to cap without ever interacting with another player in the game. This is completely contradictory to the concept of an MMO and goes against SEs philosophy of what an MMO is for. This game is and always will be a community game. That is why we have heated debates on forums and that is why we have seen a push toward a more party Based combat system. In the end our game will be better for not having a quest based leveling system.

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Originally Posted by Galoot

Personally I think anyone who looks down on people for abandoning a leve are just dumb...Because you see your way as the "moral" thing to do, does not make you any better for doing it that way. The fact of the matter is, your just stubborn and can't grip the fact that it's the way for the most SP and to ensure that you have the same leve over and over again. Let me say congratu-f-ing-lations for completing leves! You're the man or woman! In reality most people don't have as much time as others to play this game. For that fact most will "analyze" (syntax) the game and look for the way to best spend their time on the game and progress. I'm surprised everyone doesn't do it this way, because there is no cheating involved when your still doing the leves and waiting for resets. All your doing is maximizing your time playing the game and progressing which I thought is what everyone does...No one called it cheating or exploiting in FFXI when people started to do BLM PTs or TP Burn PTs. If it's in the game and available there should be no conflict...good luck to yah.

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RMTs are in the game, griefers are in the game...if there was an exploit that allowed you to get millions of gil selling items to npcs would you use it?
Because isn't that what befell the salvage dupers?

Or how about that strategy against AV? That was in the game, the players used it...

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Originally Posted by Reika

Most of the people that play this game defend it.

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Most of the people rush multiple jobs to 50 in this fashion (not you specifically! I don't know your play style) and complain there's no end game. It never ends.

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Originally Posted by Reika

most of the people that play this game defend it. There is but a small resistance against it.

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I'd say thats bogus.

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

I'd say thats bogus.

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I'm gonna go with Vack on this one as well.

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

I'd say thats bogus.

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Well neither of us can offer any proof to the matter. I just highly doubt the majority of the games players DONT fail those best leves once they learn of the process. Always have someone making a new thread every few weeks asking if its ok to do...

If you come on at JP time, the servers are heavily lagged at Broken Water. I'd say a vast majority does this. Everyone I know and everyone that everyone knows does this. If SE has acknowledged this and have not put a ban hammer on players like they did with salvage, then I'd assume it will always be here unless the leve system as a whole is completely revamped. Until then, argue all you want on morals on this subject, because morals are still opinions, and everyone has his or her own opinion.

I'm flattered that other people are concerned for my well being for not getting gill, faction points, marks, because I keep failing my leves.

They also keep saying "Oh you, don't be so hard on yourself. Always picking the hardest leves, with all those mobs you have to kill. Why don't you get devlit inside once in a while so you only have to kill like two mobs to complete a leve!"

And then they pat me consollingly, while they whisper behind my back to their friends "Poor guy, he failed his leves again and he had the same ones at the counter, so he has to do 16 leves instead of 8 leves today"

At the end of the day when they see me back in Uldah, they even try to cheer me up "Don't worry about it. You'll get the hang of it eventually. At least you made some sp right? What, you got 140k sp today? That's... good... good job..."

So much love!