I'm bored when I heal because I need more complex DPS rotations

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

They quite literally made tanks' 123 combo no longer able to be broken by their ranged GCD aggro attack and most of the healers heal on the oGCD where they can weave their combo. This holds no water.

Also, whoever said that a healer's rotation would look akin to a tank/melee dps? They can have debuffs that do damage on a 15s recast timer, extra DoTs to add on (which are press and forget btw), delayed damaging abilities akin to Earthly Star, or some combination of the above.

Any healer worth their salt is going to heal when they need to. What that looks like is going to be different depending on the healer, their team, the fight, and their gear. I may stop my rotation because I feel I need to heal half way through the 15s of the 2min window another healer may say, "no, you can wait" and be just as right as I cause they know you aren't going to die in 15s.

Neither of these responses are justification for not giving us extra dps.

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As for adding extra DoTs, unless they have fixed the hard limit of effects that are allowed on a player or npc that will not happen. It is a pretty high limit and hard to hit in most content, but it has hindered performance before and no one wants to be stuck in a situation where their kit is being locked out because they can't get an effect to land on an enemy. There is already a school of healing that is a very small group but still believes that if you take damage that is avoidable you aren't going to be healed because it will take away from their DPS uptime. You have to play perfectly in all content at all times because if you don't then you're effecting healer DPS and that is inexcusable. They can easily make a small rotation that healing wont interrupt but I have a feeling even then people would be right back here complaining about how simple it is.

they need to combine or reduce the healing spells, that way we have less buttons for healing and more room to add 1 or 2 dps buttons.

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

I understand that and I agree with you. I wish SE could revamp and rework our healing toolkit as a whole and make healing/support aspect of the toolkit more interactive and interesting.

I know it's very unlikely for SE to do so, but the same could be said about the request for more dps options. According to healer subforums, they have been asking for more dps options for years. It didn't get us anywhere. If anything, the statement from Yoshi-P during the Endwalker interview only enforced his stance of "no dps for healers"

I'm not averse to more dps buttons for healers though. I just prefer having a gameply that focus more on utility and healing to doing dps.





It's not coming out of nowhere though. I didn't mention "complex dps rotation" with the intent to make a strawman. It's in the title of this very thread.

Yes, our healing toolkits are bloated. To make matters worse, non healer roles are also capable of contributing lots of healing.





Yes, more support GCDs. New skills, regardless of healing or dps, coming in the form of oGCD still results in 11111 gameplay.

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Well said! This is my position as well. Healers don't need more damage spells nor a dramatically raised skill floor.

They need more interesting toolkits. I feel the best option is to remove most of the heal & buff abilities from tanks & damage dealers then give the best ones to healers as abilities. Overhaul everything!

To cut down on bloat, a lot of heals can be & should be combined/removed because their function is exactly the same. For example, do white mages really need three buttons for Cure III, Medica, and Medica II? These spells should evolve into new spells as they level, just like Stone did.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

Spreadsheet warriors asked for this, so SE obliged them. We used to have more support, more job synergy more Individuality but then someone broke out a calculator, declared a certain job combination suboptimal and a few years later this is the result. Blissful uniformity.
People also bitched about melee uptime so SE made bosses bigger.
Honestly, I don't envy them. No wonder they stopped replying in the EN forums years ago. lol

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This is not a helpful post & is a strawman argument.

It cannot be claimed that Square Enix listens to its customer base too much and not at all. Everything about the current state of healing can be laid exclusively on confirmation bias on the part of the development team. They made assumptions about healers early on and are sticking to that idea. It's very hard to change the opinion of a person when they are convinced they are right.

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Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo

A more thoughtful reaction would be: why not? Just as DPS jobs offer both SMN (simple) and BLM (complex), maybe there should be a single healer job that adds that complexity for players who want something more involved to diddle with between heals.

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Why not all of the healers? To quote from another thread:

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

So instead, a simple, yet focused 2 or 3 changes to each healer's damage rotation, balanced in such a way that ignoring the new additions is a smaller potency loss than something like 'ignoring your DOT' is right now, is what to look into, I think. If someone is skilled enough to use the new rotation, they can. If they are not, they can ignore parts of it until they get more comfortable with the job and start to throw in more and more of the rotation. Nobody is going to cause a wipe in Lapis Manalis because they could not work out how to effectively use their new Miasma DOT on SCH.

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After all, if you're worried about keeping a healer "simple" or "accessible", what you need to worry about is the healing kit, not the DPS kit:

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

All it takes to keep WHM as the easy and accessible healer is to maintain its core healing skills as "restore 'lots' of HP after damage hits" and to make those skills available on demand. Which is to say, all it takes is to leave the Lv.50 healing kit (Cure, Medica, Regen) well enough alone. It's an intuitive model of healing that works well as long as single hits don't delete entire HP bars.

The DPS kit could be a tangled mess that'd give optimizers a run for their money, but so long as it's obvious how to do the "healer" part of a job that's called "healer," it'd be fair to say that the job is easy and accessible.

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lmao “spit in the face”

What the hell is wrong with you?

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

*snippity snip*

After all, if you're worried about keeping a healer "simple" or "accessible", what you need to worry about is the healing kit, not the DPS kit:

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Exactly! Healers really don't want a complex damage kit. Dealing damage is not their primary function. Their role's focus should be upon the team, whether it be the team's survival or performance, with dealing damage to the enemy an important but secondary concern.

Hence, the healer toolkit should reflect that concept. Instead, they have redundant spells, with many important abilities which they should have, handed over to the other roles. This has weakened the healer's part in the triad, making healers less important to the success of a party.

Many experienced players feel this diminishment of their favorite role and have expressed frustration about their lessened impact on the party's success. Furthermore, because the other roles require less support, healers have to spend the majority of time using their limited damage spell selection. This has caused even more frustration.

2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1

THIS is the main problem of healers, yes, the healing kit could be far more interesting and less generic, yes, the content could require more healing but even with that you can't reward the mastery of the the healing with a 2 button spam, especially when even if the new content required healing the remaining of the game does not require that amount of healing.

People say they want more healing but the reality is that the majority of those who ask for it (and the playerbase) woudn't be able to handle the healing required to justify those tools, because not even savage justify the tools we have now, and most healers can't handle it. Thats why the solution lies in the dps kit, because its the easier one to execute and the one that most players would be able to handle.

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

Why not all of the healers?

After all, if you're worried about keeping a healer "simple" or "accessible", what you need to worry about is the healing kit, not the DPS kit:

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I don't know why you'd think that; a kit is the sum of its parts, and more DPS complexity means more complexity for the overall kit. And that's not something everyone wants. That being the case, it seems like it would make the most sense to only apply this adjustment to a single job; that way players who prefer a simpler DPS style for their healers still have access to that.

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Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo

I don't know why you'd think that; a kit is the sum of its parts, and more DPS complexity means more complexity for the overall kit. And that's not something everyone wants. That being the case, it seems like it would make the most sense to only apply this adjustment to a single job; that way players who prefer a simpler DPS style for their healers still have access to that.

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Again there is a reference to the *complexity* boogeyman. Really, we are looking at a single dot and a nuke, I have honestly never played a healer in any game that has such a stripped-down DPS kit, even in heal spec. This game already employs multiple design options for DPS that don't introduce button bloat, don't break combos, allow a player to hold a skill. It isn't rocket science.

If we add an additional DPS option, (or more, just saying), I don't see why it would not be for all healers. Part of the reasoning is that in the content where it doesn't matter, no one can force i.e. harass) a healer to use their DPS skills, however a competent healer in that content currently has limited options.

So currently healers that don't want to DPS do not ( I have personally seen zero DPS healers and no one said a word), nothing would likely change. However for those who do want to and want to learn some habits for more difficult content- or have engagement- this could improve their experience.

I'm not even addressing the frustration of players in higher end content, I don't expect that they would like to not even have the option available for them either.

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Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo

I don't know why you'd think that; a kit is the sum of its parts, and more DPS complexity means more complexity for the overall kit. And that's not something everyone wants. That being the case, it seems like it would make the most sense to only apply this adjustment to a single job; that way players who prefer a simpler DPS style for their healers still have access to that.

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Then you missed the point of the bit from ForsakenRoe that I quoted.

You can always carve out a simple DPS style from any kit. Indeed, even Black Mage, the hallowed "complex" caster, illustrates the point: "The standard rotation is more than sufficient to play at a high level of Black Mage." You want to play BLM but don't want to deal with transpose lines zaniness for a theoretical few percent more damage? Then don't. Focus on doing the basics well.

I fail to see how that same philosophy and approach can't be applied to healers. Allowing room for complexity takes nothing away from those who prefer something non-complex.