#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

I'm confused... your camp said that us healers "striking" will not be felt but at the same time it will disrupt queue times because of VPR and PCT? Make up your minds already.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

They probably consider it selfish because the thread is attention-seeking and encouraging others to quit as well to create a bargaining chip to get what the dissatisfied posters want.

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Ironically this post is more attention seeking than the actual thread being criticized, you got the attention though gg

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Originally Posted by PeppermintBrown

This isn't just giving feedback. This is threatneing a 'strike' that has no backbone to it. AT THE SAME TIME THEY ARE ADDING TWO DPS JOBS THAT WILL MAKE IT DIFFICULT TO EVEN TELL HOW MUCH OF AN IMPACT YOUR 'STRIKE' IS HAVING.' Even IF it managed to make some waves in duty finder queues viper and pictomancer are going to skew these for the first days of the expansion. And gamers do not have the discipline to keep this up long term. The strike itself is a joke.

Also healer jobs are getting some extra dps like sgebaoe dot.

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are you okay ? did you read my post one page ago...? no one is threatening anyone here. there's extremists everywhere and we are not responsible for people who are making the strike look bad lmao. as i said, there's litteraly no point in having people tell us that our strike is going to fail because no matters what happens in game, we will still be loud until changes are made. and also ! a dps spell locked behind a 2 minutes cooldown is nice to have but it's not gonna change anything and if you think it does then i suggest you to pick up healers in all types of content for a while~

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Originally Posted by Aravell

For all the people recently who say that "it's not that healer needs more damage options, it's that there's not enough damage going out", I have to ask you all.....

What do you do when there's nothing to heal? Do you keep up your damage? If so, do you not find your 2111111111112111111..... rotation boring?

There is actually zero possible way to make it so there's no downtime in this game. You can attempt to shorten the downtime, but you also have to keep in mind that the shorter the downtime becomes, the less time you also have to recover mistakes. This would undoubtedly raise the skill floor and would thus be not considered for regular dungeon content.

A solution should target all levels of play, it shouldn't be a half solution that cannot be applied to the content where healers are currently suffering an identity crisis the most.

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Just for reference, I play WoW and the healers in that game (atleast the ones I play) do have an actual rotation. I would probably not enjoy healing as much if they didn't. That being said, the "full damage" rotation is usually only used on casual content. As you start going into harder content you spend more time healing and less time doing the damage rotation.

I just have a question for the healers: Is this just a problem in casual content, or is this something you see in Savage or Extreme Trials, for example?

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Originally Posted by PeppermintBrown

And gamers do not have the discipline to keep this up long term.

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I like "gamers don't have discipline" on a forum thread that you can't post in without an active subscription to the award winning MMO FFXIV Online: A Realm Reborn

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Originally Posted by Roshidon1

Just for reference, I play WoW and the healers in that game (atleast the ones I play) do have an actual rotation. I would probably not enjoy healing as much if they didn't. That being said, the "full damage" rotation is usually only used on casual content. As you start going into harder content you spend more time healing and less time doing the damage rotation.

I just have a question for the healers: Is this just a problem in casual content, or is this something you see in Savage or Extreme Trials, for example?

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As we have said and given mountain of feedback on this issue pervades literally every facet of healer gameplay at every level for different reasons we have laid out hundreds of times

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Originally Posted by TheDustyOne

No, at worst maybe some could do with nerfs, but otherwise mitigation is more of the tanks job than healers anyway.



Moreso nerfed than removed, although a large chunk can definitely be removed. They're powerful enough to make healers largely unneeded in casual content. It's one thing to have skilled players able to do content without a healer with some good planning, but currently you can get extremely sloppy and still succeed without a healer in casual content.



Depends on how hard; too hard and it will affect casual players, but it certainly needs to be more than now, enough to make the healer feel warranted.



Yes. Doesn't need much, I'd be happy with about 4-6 regularly used buttons in a single target rotation, give or take.

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Well, I never got anymore responses so I can't build a consensus of whats really wanted sadly, I guess everyone's got me on ignore.

Thank you for your input though I appreciate it.

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Originally Posted by Roshidon1

Just for reference, I play WoW and the healers in that game (atleast the ones I play) do have an actual rotation. I would probably not enjoy healing as much if they didn't. That being said, the "full damage" rotation is usually only used on casual content. As you start going into harder content you spend more time healing and less time doing the damage rotation.

I just have a question for the healers: Is this just a problem in casual content, or is this something you see in Savage or Extreme Trials, for example?

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its in EX trials, Savage

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Originally Posted by Roshidon1

Just for reference, I play WoW and the healers in that game (atleast the ones I play) do have an actual rotation. I would probably not enjoy healing as much if they didn't. That being said, the "full damage" rotation is usually only used on casual content. As you start going into harder content you spend more time healing and less time doing the damage rotation.

I just have a question for the healers: Is this just a problem in casual content, or is this something you see in Savage or Extreme Trials, for example?

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as a hardcore player, i find this issue in every content. savage and ultimates included but lesser content is more predominant. savages and ultimates are kinda hard to speak upon because imo it's gonna depend on encounter design. which is why i don't think we need a whole dps rotation but adding more dps spells you can optimize depending on encounters would be very nice

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Originally Posted by Roshidon1

Just for reference, I play WoW and the healers in that game (atleast the ones I play) do have an actual rotation. I would probably not enjoy healing as much if they didn't. That being said, the "full damage" rotation is usually only used on casual content. As you start going into harder content you spend more time healing and less time doing the damage rotation.

I just have a question for the healers: Is this just a problem in casual content, or is this something you see in Savage or Extreme Trials, for example?

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I just referenced my casts for Dragonsong's Reprise (Ultimate) and I spent 58% of my GCD casts on Broil IV. Take that as you will.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

I just referenced my casts for Dragonsong's Reprise (Ultimate) and I spent 58% of my GCD casts on Broil IV. Take that as you will.

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Add In biolysis and you are at about 70% already

I want to be apart of it. I hate that people accuse us of only being like a glare mage etc but i have nothing to really do besides over heal or spam 1 button. And with jobs having a lot of self sustain and tanks having 100 petcent aggro..as long as people dodge they really can clear content without a healer and it sucks that your skills can really only come into play in savage or ultimate which people are actively trying to find ways to solo heal it and clear with no healer. Its gotten to a point where it feels like a dead role.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

No saying “just shut up and quit” on those threads is just as stupid because that person is leaving and giving the last of their feedback, that’s a time people should be even more strongly acknowledging them

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I agree but that's not how everyone sees things.

For many, perception is reality. That's all I've been trying to do here - point out that how things get phrased will affect how others react to those things.

It's not helping that you have some "strikers" making statements that contradict statements from others. People being people, many are going to focus on the more negative sounding takes instead of on the general message. They're going to act hostilely in return.

None of you should be surprised when it happens. Better to not even comment on the hostile posts.

Yes, I know I'm bumping this to give it more exposure. I've said before that I agree that something needs to be done about design to improve the game experience for those who are healing mains. I agree with some of the stated reasons why the problems exist and disagree with others.

I still think that an actual strike is not the correct approach to getting problems fixed. As one of the JP posters pointed out earlier, strikes are not seen favorably in Japan and it is Japanese developers that you have to convince to make changes.

Good luck Healers Union

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Originally Posted by kirinoodles_

as a hardcore player, i find this issue in every content. savage and ultimates included but lesser content is more predominant. savages and ultimates are kinda hard to speak upon because imo it's gonna depend on encounter design. which is why i don't think we need a whole dps rotation but adding more dps spells you can optimize depending on encounters would be very nice

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That seems reasonable.

The sad thing is when people quit and can't get a chance to explain why the developers don't get any real feedback

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

I still think that an actual strike is not the correct approach to getting problems fixed. As one of the JP posters pointed out earlier, strikes are not seen favorably in Japan and it is Japanese developers that you have to convince to make changes.

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well then, give options.

you say this isnt the way to do it... there are reasonable, well thought out posts regarding this that have been tried, with examples of the issue and potential things that could be tried to resolve it. seemingly ignored.

so, what is your way? just keep playing a healer main and wish for pink skies and roses that things will somehow improve? we tried that too.

We have tried giving feedback, offering suggestions, proving everything wrong with healers for years, all to not be heard and watching how the problems were left to fester to the point of having our entire role become unnecesary, devoid of depth, complexity, synergy and identity. At this point the "strike" is our only option left to have even the slightest chance of being heard and have the role problems acknowledged and addresed.

After all as customers we are in our right to stop playing something we don't want to. "If you don't like it, don't play it" as the SE white knights would say

As Waxsaw said genuinely what are we supposed to do

We have soapboxed in here for 8 years now, we are being ignored, what else are we supposed to do

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

As Waxsaw said genuinely what are we supposed to do

We have soapboxed in here for 8 years now, we are being ignored, what else are we supposed to do

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Play another role and hope the queue times hurt them hard enough to change the game.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

I agree but that's not how everyone sees things.

For many, perception is reality...

...I still think that an actual strike is not the correct approach to getting problems fixed. As one of the JP posters pointed out earlier, strikes are not seen favorably in Japan and it is Japanese developers that you have to convince to make changes.

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So is your disagreement just that calling it a "strike" is bad? Is that it? If so an alternative proposal shouldn't be hard though I'm not sure we even can change the name anymore now that it's out there.

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

Play another role and hope the queue times hurt them hard enough to change the game.

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And that’s the point of the strike, I don’t hate 14 I hate healers in 14

So someone else can play these piles of garbage while I enjoy the rest of the game

Someone posted that giant wall of text about healer issues four years ago and it got looked at and answered in a Q&A with what essentially amounted to "We're working on it.", then it resulted in an awful lot of nothing in the present.

It's hard to say what will properly get the point across if that didn't work.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

And that’s the point of the strike, I don’t hate 14 I hate healers in 14

So someone else can play these piles of garbage while I enjoy the rest of the game

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I relate to this a lot. I play healers in every game that has them, but i just loathe playing them in FF. I *want* to heal. But the gameplay is just not great.
This feeling is creeping up on the tanks as well, after various questionable changes. But i'm affraid most tanks don't really seem to care so i know things won't change.
I'm on copium for the promises made to change jobs in 7.2, so i can return to support gameplay. But not holding my breath to be honest. I'll likely just play melee dps for the full expansion.

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Originally Posted by PeppermintBrown

This whole thing is incredibly unserious. A slight bump in how many people queue as healer isn't going to affect anything. And they don't even have the guts to actually unsub over it. People want their cake and eat it too. They want to 'strike' without leaving their game. They want to have more dps options but want less healing options for others. It is selfish, entitled and delusional.

Gaming 'boycotts' never work out and neither will this strike, just as similar strikes and complaints didn't work in 5.0 or 6.0.

Quite simply, this vocal minority echo chamber is not a monolith of the game's community or even the game's healing community. Outside of these forums the idea is either a laughing stock or content starved outlets needing something to comment on that will drop it by the time early access starts.

Preen all you want. In the end it will change nothing, and sooner or later you'll either be back to healing or someone else will take that spot.

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So, if it's all going to amount to nothing, why are you so nervous? Just relax and enjoy the game, you clearly aren't concerned that it will affect you..

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

I agree but that's not how everyone sees things.

For many, perception is reality. That's all I've been trying to do here - point out that how things get phrased will affect how others react to those things.

It's not helping that you have some "strikers" making statements that contradict statements from others. People being people, many are going to focus on the more negative sounding takes instead of on the general message. They're going to act hostilely in return.

None of you should be surprised when it happens. Better to not even comment on the hostile posts.

Yes, I know I'm bumping this to give it more exposure. I've said before that I agree that something needs to be done about design to improve the game experience for those who are healing mains. I agree with some of the stated reasons why the problems exist and disagree with others.

I still think that an actual strike is not the correct approach to getting problems fixed. As one of the JP posters pointed out earlier, strikes are not seen favorably in Japan and it is Japanese developers that you have to convince to make changes.

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I agree that it's best not to give certain posts that are like there just to provoke people additional visibility.

However, I believe that it's not realistic to expect that we won't find some contradictory statements, there are various viewpoints. If some people "act hostile"- well, a person can only control their own reactions, I wouldn't react in kind. If necessary, block that person.

Regarding calling it a "strike"- I appreciated hearing how strikes are frowned upon due to cultural differences, I wish we had know that before, perhaps we could have co-operated with their community and called it something else. However, that ship has sailed, however nothing prevents their community from starting something and calling it whatever they want.

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

I relate to this a lot. I play healers in every game that has them, but i just loathe playing them in FF. I *want* to heal. But the gameplay is just not great.
This feeling is creeping up on the tanks as well, after various questionable changes. But i'm affraid most tanks don't really seem to care so i know things won't change.
I'm on copium for the promises made to change jobs in 7.2, so i can return to support gameplay. But not holding my breath to be honest. I'll likely just play melee dps for the full expansion.

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With the 7.2 deadline to start enacting partial changes for jobs in the Gamesradar interview being a mistranslation, there's no hopium left.
It's probably another 2 years of the same old... tinfoil hat time, they added trusts expecting healers to slowly give up :>

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

So, if it's all going to amount to nothing, why are you so nervous? Just relax and enjoy the game, you clearly aren't concerned that it will affect you..

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I'm not nervous. I'm enjoying the circus show unfolding. I have nothing to be nervous about as it's no skin off my nose if by some miracle this 'did' work.

I don't need ya since I can run every DT dungeon with my NPC companions.

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Originally Posted by Galvuu

With the 7.2 deadline to start enacting partial changes for jobs in the Gamesradar interview being a mistranslation, there's no hopium left.
It's probably another 2 years of the same old... tinfoil hat time, they added trusts expecting healers to slowly give up :>

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Do you have a source? I'd like to know for sure.

Wait...all this thread for a 3 to 4 month old build, without seeing and playing things yourself and based on the first MSQ dungeon being completed by Ultimate raiders with no healer?

Even in roulettes I need to heal or people die, not everyone plays well all the time. Yes dps rotation is simple but you weave heals throughout. If you just want to dps play a dps. I cant see the issue. Sorry.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

well then, give options.

you say this isnt the way to do it... there are reasonable, well thought out posts regarding this that have been tried, with examples of the issue and potential things that could be tried to resolve it. seemingly ignored.

so, what is your way? just keep playing a healer main and wish for pink skies and roses that things will somehow improve? we tried that too.

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I stated it earlier in the thread (probably about 125 pages back at this point).

Get stories from healer mains about what made them become a healer and what they want from healing and pass them to the developers, most likely via the more visible content creators that we know the developers watch. Include stories from all types of healers, happy and unhappy, entry level casual to experienced Savage/Ultimate. the content creators until now have mainly focused on Savage/Ultimate healing. A broader point of view needs to be presented because the developers have to take into consideration that broader point of view.

Don't approach things as "this is done wrong" and "only this will be acceptable as a solution". Instead approach the issues as "this is why I don't feel satisfied as a healer".

Understand and be willing to accept compromise on any changes made because different healers have different priorities. Understand and be willing to accept that if you're limiting yourself to content that is intended for healers below your skill level, there will always be a measure of dissatisfaction.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

Someone posted that giant wall of text about healer issues four years ago and it got looked at and answered in a Q&A with what essentially amounted to "We're working on it.", then it resulted in an awful lot of nothing in the present.

It's hard to say what will properly get the point across if that didn't work.

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It's linked in the OP here, too.

Gemima, if you're reading this, to echo the sentiment of others in this thread already suggesting it, it should be revealable on the OP itself instead of another thread at this point. Frankly, that healer thread post reads a little less ridiculously than calling it a 'manifesto'.

Plus, folks can see the date on that thread.

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Originally Posted by Giggle

Wait...all this thread for a 3 to 4 month old build, without seeing and playing things yourself and based on the first MSQ dungeon being completed by Ultimate raiders with no healer?

Even in roulettes I need to heal or people die, not everyone plays well all the time. Yes dps rotation is simple but you weave heals throughout. If you just want to dps play a dps. I cant see the issue. Sorry.

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Because they said the same thing before the ShB release and the EW release

The first dungeon in the expansion is nearly always the hardest and it’s been cleared BEFORE it even released and it barely requires any skill, the NIN in that clear had 4 vuln stacks before they finally died, why is a DPS surviving 4 vuln stacks before they die especially when they don’t have a healer to actually power heal them

Weaving heals isn’t a substitute for something to do DPS wise because you need to press heals so infrequently, raidwide damage is healed by 1 oGCD, avoidable damage on a DPS is done by one heal, the outgoing damage comes out like every 45 seconds, the tank can cover most of the healing for itself and the DPS, there was like maybe 10 raid wides in that entire dungeon and the tank can just heal up both DPS before the next one comes out

We just barely have a function anymore

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Originally Posted by Giggle

Wait...all this thread for a 3 to 4 month old build, without seeing and playing things yourself and based on the first MSQ dungeon being completed by Ultimate raiders with no healer?

Even in roulettes I need to heal or people die, not everyone plays well all the time. Yes dps rotation is simple but you weave heals throughout. If you just want to dps play a dps. I cant see the issue. Sorry.

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We already know how it'll play because there are no changes other than potencies at best, and the DT changes barely change how any job plays.

You don't need stellar players to clear without healer because shit barely hits and non healer sustain is at an all time high. In the video of the dungeon clear dps and tanks got hit and still cleared fine.

We barely weave any heals, easily 70-80% of our actions, including ogcd heals, are dps actions thats why we ask for changes. We want to have fun and if we what do the most is dpsing, we want a fun dps rotation.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

snip snap

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Hey, thanks for the engagement! Keeping the thread going, keeping the metaphorical flames alive!

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Because they said the same thing before the ShB release and the EW release

The first dungeon in the expansion is nearly always the hardest and it’s been cleared BEFORE it even released and it barely requires any skill, the NIN in that clear had 4 vuln stacks before they finally died, why is a DPS surviving 4 vuln stacks before they die especially when they don’t have a healer to actually power heal them

Weaving heals isn’t a substitute for something to do DPS wise because you need to press heals so infrequently, raidwide damage is healed by 1 oGCD, avoidable damage on a DPS is done by one heal, the outgoing damage comes out like every 45 seconds, the tank can cover most of the healing for itself and the DPS

We just barely have a function anymore

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In a game that makes every individual job increasingly self sufficient, and lowers the difficulty every other patch.. Yeah, everyone is basically just a dps.
If you're going to play a dps regardless of the role, you might as well play one that has a semi engaging and rewarding rotation.

Even if Dawntrail manages to be a healer paradise, they've backed themselves into a corner by giving healers only heals, a nuke spells, and a DoT.

They cannot keep it up and even if they somehow do it won't make roulettes more interesting either. Jobs need to be baseline engaging and DPS tools that are always relevant is an obvious way to do it.

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Originally Posted by rawker

Ok buddy. You've said your piece. Now let the people who wants to enjoy the role continue with theirs.

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How about we prune the Paladin too down to 2 DPS Buttons. Wouldnt this mean more fun gameplay for you?

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

Do you have a source? I'd like to know for sure.

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On today's live letter before the show officially started they talked about that interview being a bit of a misinterpretation on the part of gamesradar. Shortly after yoship joined the stream and before they showed the launch trailer for the first time.