#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

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Originally Posted by Reinha

It's like if a storm drain is blocked and there is usually a person who lies down in the puddle so that other people can walk over him and not get their socks wet, him getting up and refusing to do it anymore is disruptive in the sense that someone else is going to get wet. But people can still get where they need to be, their path is not blocked.

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I don't think that analogy works that well, because the only similarities are someone not doing something anymore and someone else being affected in some way but all the other details just don't really fit including what the solution in both situations would be. like in that example the solution would be to remove the need for a person to lie in the puddle (which in FF14 context would be removing healer) which I hope is not what the people here want. The analogy would make more sense if someone sees playing healer mainly as providing a service to other people, maybe some people feel that way but that would really open up the discussion if we should remove healer if that should be the intended purpose for some. Because playing a job in a game should be because it is fun and enjoyable and not because it is a service to other people. (at least as the main part)

I think there is as well a big difference between just stopping to do something and organising something with the hope that as many people as possible stop doing it at the same time to send a message. Not that I think it is wrong to do so because of it, but I think there is then more responsibility of the effects that might cause.

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Originally Posted by Rosenoire

In my experience, WAR only "renders the healer useless" in some dungeon content. I just ran Dead Ends and being a WAR wouldn't have saved me from dying to the Dooms on the first boss. As I noted previously, I couldn't prevent a wipe on Proto-Carby once the healers went down.

That said, I do find it baffling that Shake it Off got a healing effect, and that Bloodwhetting is "TBN only with heals!" when DRK had Abyssal Drain as our only straight up "press here to heal" button. WAR seems to be the golden child when it comes to tanks, though.

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With a little practice you can easily avoid AoE's that apply Necrosis (the Doom like effect) at the first boss of Dead Ends. Not a good sign when the first expample too show why healers are only useless in some dungeons only applies when players mess up a mechanic. Sure when your team messes up often enough, they'll need a healer in any dungeon. This is the main problem with encounter design, most of the times healers could be useful can be completely avoided by gaining a little more experience with the encounter.

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Originally Posted by aiqa

With a little practice you can easily avoid AoE's that apply Necrosis (the Doom like effect) at the first boss of Dead Ends. Not a good sign when the first expample too show why healers are only useless in some dungeons only applies when players mess up a mechanic. Sure when your team messes up often enough, they'll need a healer in any dungeon. This is the main problem with encounter design, most of the times healers could be useful can be completely avoided by gaining a little more experience with the encounter.

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This also means there may be an inverse relationship between expansion lifespan and healer being fun. As players get more experienced by repeating the newer content, you're going to see less mistakes theoretically.

Still bad design imo, when mastering content just means more fun and more expression for certain roles.

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Originally Posted by UnconfirmedCat

We both know this is just anecdotal. You can just as easily say casuals are not as invested so they leave quicker to do other things. It's all made up assumptions that I'll call out when I see it.

Yeah, so if they are going to be bad at the game anyway, why not just let them be bad at classes the rest of us can enjoy. People in this thread that are defending healer design cannot make up there mind. Healer classes simultaneously need to remain casual, but you also need to play them at the highest difficulty to experience them properly. It's nonsense.

Healers already have a fixed rotation, it's 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 [...] . The majority of healing that players do is OGCD as well so it will not interfere with any rotation, just as it doesn't do that now. People don't say this about tanks. "Omg I can't swap because I need to do my rotation!" There is 0 outcry anywhere that "Tanks need to be simplified further because they need to press buttons to mitigate and do tank swaps". Again, it's really funny to me and reveals how bad the majority of these arguments that pop-up when discussing healers and not anything else in this game. You can always identify when people are making it up as they are going along when they act like healers exist in some of kind of vacuum and as if we don't have literally 10 years worth of content, jobs added to the game, and experience to evaluate.

There is nothing to react to in solo encounters 100% of the time, and there is nothing to react to in dungeons like 95% of the time in my experience, and even then it's always solved by pressing 1 button.

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there's no point in discussing this further. i make assumptions, you make assumptions. different experiences lead to different opinions.
i included the players who wouldn't voluntarily play a healer because they don't like that form of hybrid, or because it's too much to ask, and those people won't agree with you.
all i can tell you about tanks is that you're making assumptions because you can't be sure that there are no complaints anywhere on the internet about how tanks play.
you only see that you play healers with only 2 dmg skills, which still makes me wonder, and that's it. I'm not even sure if you realize that any class, regardless of how many buttons the rotation has, can be boring. My boredom does not depend on how many buttons i can press but thats all you talk about.
it remains the case that not everyone shares your opinion. i have played healers for years and tanks for years. both can be boring and exciting for me and currently tanks are more boring than healers.

Ive heard your opinion. i don't understand it because i am not able to put myself in your position, but i accept your opinion.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

This also means there may be an inverse relationship between expansion lifespan and healer being fun. As players get more experienced by repeating the newer content, you're going to see less mistakes theoretically.

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Yes, that is what happens with the current encounter design combined with ever stronger heals from other roles (mostly tanks). But the bar for that can be pretty low in dungeons. As seen in the video about the first DT dungeon without a healer, the players got many vulnerability stacks and the WAR didn't use team heals anything near optimal, and they still got through it without much difficulty.

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Originally Posted by aiqa

Yes, that is what happens with the current encounter design combined with ever stronger heals from other roles (mostly tanks). But the bar for that can be pretty low in dungeons. As seen in the video about the first DT dungeon without a healer, the players got many vulnerability stacks and the WAR didn't use team heals anything near optimal, and they still got through it with much difficulty.

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True, it would only really apply to the amount of content that is fun for healers in the first place.

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Originally Posted by mellii

I don't think that analogy works that well, because the only similarities are someone not doing something anymore and someone else being affected in some way but all the other details just don't really fit including what the solution in both situations would be. like in that example the solution would be to remove the need for a person to lie in the puddle (which in FF14 context would be removing healer) which I hope is not what the people here want. The analogy would make more sense if someone sees playing healer mainly as providing a service to other people, maybe some people feel that way but that would really open up the discussion if we should remove healer if that should be the intended purpose for some. Because playing a job in a game should be because it is fun and enjoyable and not because it is a service to other people. (at least as the main part)

I think there is as well a big difference between just stopping to do something and organising something with the hope that as many people as possible stop doing it at the same time to send a message. Not that I think it is wrong to do so because of it, but I think there is then more responsibility of the effects that might cause.

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The puddle in my analogy is boring gameplay. If those who have typically provided a service collectively refuse to deal with that, it means people will need to find ways around it (1T3D PF or premade) or make the sacrifice themselves (by becoming healers or dealing with slow trust runs). A removed puddle is the goal - boring gameplay shouldn't exist on any job.

Like you said, it should not be considered a service in the first place but for many players that's exactly what playing healer is. There are even players in this thread saying they will not strike because they don't want to inconvenience dps players. So their reason is, not because they disagree about healers being boring but because they want to provide fast queue times so other roles can have fun. Of course it's fine to not strike for any reason, but I just find it interesting that even the ones not in support of the strike are healing primarily out of a sense of duty and not for fun.

There is no responsibility involved in not doing something for other players in a videogame, even if it's organized. Especially in a game where every player can play any role. It's up to the developers to create proper incentives and engagement.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Like you said, it should not be considered a service in the first place but for many players that's exactly what playing healer is. There are even players in this thread saying they will not strike because they don't want to inconvenience dps players. So their reason is, not because they disagree about healers being boring but because they want to provide fast queue times so other roles can have fun. Of course it's fine to not strike for any reason, but I just find it interesting that even the ones not in support of the strike are healing primarily out of a sense of duty and not for fun.

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While i am done with healing until things change (so potentitially indefinitely), i understand that instant queue times for your roulettes is a very nice incentive.
And not everyone will be willing to inconvenience themselves, when boring, but quick alternative is there.

While 195 pages is impressive it does seem to be a small amount of players just talking to each other that’s artificially lengthened this thread lol if it was name… reasoning… solutions leave this would be a much smaller thread.

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Originally Posted by CStrife912

While 195 pages is impressive it does seem to be a small amount of players just talking to each other that’s artificially lengthened this thread lol if it was name… reasoning… solutions leave this would be a much smaller thread.

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I genuinely have no idea how much more feedback you want us to give

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Originally Posted by CStrife912

While 195 pages is impressive it does seem to be a small amount of players just talking to each other that’s artificially lengthened this thread lol if it was name… reasoning… solutions leave this would be a much smaller thread.

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Wdym there so many more people posting in here than the usual suspects.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Wdym there so many more people posting in here than the usual suspects.

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Didn't you know? Everyone you disagree with are alts of the same person (probably Titanmen). :)

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Originally Posted by CStrife912

While 195 pages is impressive it does seem to be a small amount of players just talking to each other that’s artificially lengthened this thread lol if it was name… reasoning… solutions leave this would be a much smaller thread.

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it's mostly just people coming in with some opposition statement like "actually tanks are fine because they can't Esuna themselves" and people reply to that, maybe have a little discussion about it, and the thread starts to die down until more opposition shows up, at this point healer issues are such well tread ground even within this thread there's not much left to say.

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Originally Posted by WeakestZenosEnjoyer

it's mostly just people coming in with some opposition statement like "actually tanks are fine because they can't Esuna themselves" and people reply to that, maybe have a little discussion about it, and the thread starts to die down until more opposition shows up, at this point healer issues are such well tread ground even within this thread there's not much left to say.

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ah yes a whole roles who's one unique point is now being about to cleanse status effects how engaging

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

ah yes a whole roles who's one unique point is now being about to cleanse status effects how engaging

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Or you bring a bard and potions.

Realizing that I was able to remove paralysis with a potion on my BLM was a game changer.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Wdym there so many more people posting in here than the usual suspects.

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Yeah. There are like at least 20 different people in just the past few pages and over the entire thread there were many non-regulars who just popped in to say they support it.

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Originally Posted by WeakestZenosEnjoyer

it's mostly just people coming in with some opposition statement like "actually tanks are fine because they can't Esuna themselves" and people reply to that, maybe have a little discussion about it, and the thread starts to die down until more opposition shows up, at this point healer issues are such well tread ground even within this thread there's not much left to say.

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I have a great suggestion for SE. Make Afflatus Misery or better yet Afflatus Purgation healer's GCD. I.e. just spammable, while keeping everything the same.
So we can go into dungeons and tell DPS they do not have to dps, because we got that covered.
P.S. I did have several WARs telling me not to heal, because they do not need it.

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Originally Posted by Tint

Or you bring a bard and potions.

Realizing that I was able to remove paralysis with a potion on my BLM was a game changer.

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oh does bard still have the skill that removes status effects?

Apparently the article about 7.2 involving job changes was a mistranslation (not that I'm surprised).

It was actually about the improvements to the fight design/combat system not happening until 7.2.

So almost half the expansions life cycle (7.0 and 7.1) will have the same boring content and fight design.

Another win by Yoshi-P. I'm sure the supposed job changes for 8.0 won't get pushed back either.

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

oh does bard still have the skill that removes status effects?

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Yes, and Warden's Paean is still an oGCD that you can alternatively just put on someone and it cleanses the next debuff within 30 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Pandurah

Thanks for the engagement, friendo! Another spark, another flame, keeping the fire going!

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Do you really think "engagement" is all that's needed?

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

Yes, and Warden's Paean is still an oGCD that you can alternatively just put on someone and it cleanses the next debuff within 30 seconds.

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Honestly been so long since I touched bard I forgot that it still had that skill

Wow, 196 pages... That's a lot.

Everyone holds a unique view on this matter, which is understandable. Having been a full-time healer for six months, I've found enjoyment in it despite some challenges. I've even completed my first EX trials in this role and am gearing up for Savage content. Initially, the fear of failing and spoiling others' enjoyment was daunting. Mistakes still happen with off-global cooldown healing, shielding, and occasional overhealing, but it's all part of the learning process that I relish as a healer—mastering efficient healing while optimizing DPS uptime. Additionally, I'm managing significant anxiety issues alongside this.

I understand that many of the problems arise from veterans in the field, and maybe one day I'll experience it too. However, I'm not joining the strike for now. There's truth in the adage, "Be careful what you wish for," as the alterations they propose for the role could make it less appealing, deterring players' engagement. If that happens, we might find ourselves questioning why no one wants to take on the healer role.

I saw some activism in the LL chat today. :cool:

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Wdym there so many more people posting in here than the usual suspects.

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Nobody is going to read 200 pages of a thread, especially if it takes 30 minutes to write a new post and it's grown 10 pages by the time you finish. So you have people popping in, not reading any of it and the posting the most uninformed take.

Meanwhile people who play healers as their main, or primarily play healers, are left in this situation where they are, again, being treated like they don't matter.

Just wanted to clarify my stance on the strike because people who don't feel concerned and extremists have been spreading misinformations, and some are confused. I don't think it's smart to say that healers who are complaining never did high-end content. alot of people i know, people here and myself did and have done so for years and yet we are still feeling that way. if you're a healer main doing high end content and you are not feeling this way it's understandable. however i'd like to have fun on healer in all types of content. not just savage and ultimates. i think most healers here agree with me that if they cannot make every content deal more damage and force us to use most, if not, all our healing kit, we would like to see a bit more complexity in our DPS kit other than one dps spell, one dot, and a follow-up locked behind 2 min. for example i have nothing against AST cards being changed to utility and DPS but the thing is, the utilities are just your one target healing kit on card. even the more interesting one is just a krasis-like spell, which makes it see less nice uses over a healing % buff for healing spells on whoever you're gonna put the card on. we all know the strike would be much effective if we unsub and stop giving money, but alot of us still like other aspects of the game despite all of this

This whole thing is incredibly unserious. A slight bump in how many people queue as healer isn't going to affect anything. And they don't even have the guts to actually unsub over it. People want their cake and eat it too. They want to 'strike' without leaving their game. They want to have more dps options but want less healing options for others. It is selfish, entitled and delusional.

Gaming 'boycotts' never work out and neither will this strike, just as similar strikes and complaints didn't work in 5.0 or 6.0.

Quite simply, this vocal minority echo chamber is not a monolith of the game's community or even the game's healing community. Outside of these forums the idea is either a laughing stock or content starved outlets needing something to comment on that will drop it by the time early access starts.

Preen all you want. In the end it will change nothing, and sooner or later you'll either be back to healing or someone else will take that spot.

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Originally Posted by PeppermintBrown

Preen all you want. In the end it will change nothing, and sooner or later you'll either be back to healing or someone else will take that spot.

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The people who “take that spot” will then come to the same realization as the rest of us, and the cycle will continue anew.

It's so unserious to you that you have to act like a Saturday cartoon villain? :D

Even if you don't agree with the strike, this is feedback that's been pushed since 2020. I think it at least warrants a proper response from the devs.

Zepla has also covered this thread in her latest video.

no it really isn't unserious. some changes have been made because of complaints over the entirety of the game, even though those who were complaining didn't unsub. if people here wants to stop playing healer then let them be ? there's litteraly no point into saying that it's not gonna affect anything because you don't know and we don't know either. it's very likely that it's going to be the case but some people are simply quiting healing, some are quiting because they want a chance of being acknowledge over an issue that has been there for years, even if there's a very low chance of it happening. this issue existed outside of these forums for years. saying we're a minority is dumb because they've been listening to loud minorities as well in the past. it isn't selfish either because if i use the same argument, why can't we have more dps spells if other jobs, other roles, are getting more healing and mitigation spells LOL

Why do people always come into this thread to call us selfish? Isn't this what they've told us all this time? "If you don't like it, don't play it"?

Well, we're no longer playing what we don't like, what exactly is the problem?

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Originally Posted by PeppermintBrown

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Ok buddy. You've said your piece. Now let the people who wants to enjoy the role continue with theirs.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

Why do people always come into this thread to call us selfish? Isn't this what they've told us all this time? "If you don't like it, don't play it"?

Well, we're no longer playing what we don't like, what exactly is the problem?

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Do you or others posting here complain about those who make the "I'm quitting the game" threads? Tell them "So then just quit, you don't need to announce it"?

It's natural that many are going to have the same response to this thread. "So then just stop playing healer, you don't need to announce it."

They probably consider it selfish because the thread is attention-seeking and encouraging others to quit as well to create a bargaining chip to get what the dissatisfied posters want.

if others want to quit healing because they're unhappy, they will. There's no need for anyone to tell them to do it.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Do you or others posting here complain about those who make the "I'm quitting the game" threads? Tell them "So then just quit, you don't need to announce it"?

It's natural that many are going to have the same response to this thread. "So then just stop playing healer, you don't need to announce it."

They probably consider it selfish because the thread is attention-seeking and encouraging others to quit as well to create a bargaining chip to get what the dissatisfied posters want.

if others want to quit healing because they're unhappy, they will. There's no need for anyone to tell them to do it.

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No saying “just shut up and quit” on those threads is just as stupid because that person is leaving and giving the last of their feedback, that’s a time people should be even more strongly acknowledging them

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

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if others want to quit healing because they're unhappy, they will. There's no need for anyone to tell them to do it.

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Is a feedback forum not an appropriate place to say “I preferred it how it was and, having given this version a chance, will not be picking it up again.”?

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

They probably consider it selfish because the thread is attention-seeking and encouraging others to quit as well to create a bargaining chip to get what the dissatisfied posters want.

if others want to quit healing because they're unhappy, they will. There's no need for anyone to tell them to do it.

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No one's demanding anyone quit? It quite literally is written in the first post that there is no pressure to join, people are joining because they also are sick of playing healer.

Again, what's the problem?

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Originally Posted by kirinoodles_

no it really isn't unserious. some changes have been made because of complaints over the entirety of the game, even though those who were complaining didn't unsub. if people here wants to stop playing healer then let them be ? there's litteraly no point into saying that it's not gonna affect anything because you don't know and we don't know either. it's very likely that it's going to be the case but some people are simply quiting healing, some are quiting because they want a chance of being acknowledge over an issue that has been there for years, even if there's a very low chance of it happening. this issue existed outside of these forums for years. saying we're a minority is dumb because they've been listening to loud minorities as well in the past. it isn't selfish either because if i use the same argument, why can't we have more dps spells if other jobs, other roles, are getting more healing and mitigation spells LOL

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This isn't just giving feedback. This is threatneing a 'strike' that has no backbone to it. AT THE SAME TIME THEY ARE ADDING TWO DPS JOBS THAT WILL MAKE IT DIFFICULT TO EVEN TELL HOW MUCH OF AN IMPACT YOUR 'STRIKE' IS HAVING.' Even IF it managed to make some waves in duty finder queues viper and pictomancer are going to skew these for the first days of the expansion. And gamers do not have the discipline to keep this up long term. The strike itself is a joke.

Also healer jobs are getting some extra dps like sgebaoe dot.

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Originally Posted by PeppermintBrown

This isn't just giving feedback. This is threatneing a 'strike' that has no backbone to it. AT THE SAME TIME THEY ARE ADDING TWO DPS JOBS THAT WILL MAKE IT DIFFICULT TO EVEN TELL HOW MUCH OF AN IMPACT YOUR 'STRIKE' IS HAVING.' Even IF it managed to make some waves in duty finder queues viper and pictomancer are going to skew these for the first days of the expansion. And gamers do not have the discipline to keep this up long term. The strike itself is a joke.

Also healer jobs are getting some extra dps like sgebaoe dot.

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Because this is also about generating discussion

There are now 5 media tour YouTubers who’ve made videos on it, my last alliance chat was discussing it, it’s filling the LL chat. People are talking about it and that was the primary goal. Our feedback here is getting ignored and we want to be heard

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Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

Then make 4 healers with 4 unique play styles. that's going to cut the problem into a much smaller issue.

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Years ago this guy spent a year to rework the healers and it was just overlooked. it's not perfect but its far better than what we have now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNJGY9B7VW4&t=633s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF3XIhJm_N0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2YZ1dx34ug

So many good ideas just wasted.... shame.