The growing entitlement issues of the casuals

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Originally Posted by Lenneth_Valkyrie

For me the days of hardcore ended when I got a job..

But tell me something.. why shouldn't casuals be able to get involved in endgame activities and get equipment as good as hardcore's..? Casuals need just more time than hardcores to achieve that, it wouldn't be fair to negate things to casuals because "they don't play enough hours a day"..

"That serves you for getting a job instead of living in the basement of your parents..!" is that what an hardcore gamer would say to a casual then..?

FFXI became too demanding in terms of time.. that's why I had to quit.. now I have to pray SE that they don't turn FFXIV in another timesink because hardcores want to spend their life on it..?

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I like how you put it. casuals just need a little more time. we're not less skilled or learned at our job we just have RL things that are greater then a game and no matter what RL is always greater then a game.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Casuals paid for the game exactly as much as the hardcore. Like it or not.

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^This. And this price is to access content if I'm correct. Make a 'casual monthly fee' and then it will make sence to not be able to access the same content (ie gears also). In any case, with less time to play, people have less time to get items and thus hardcore players still are a steps ahead in the game.

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Originally Posted by Carmillia

^This. And this price is to access content if I'm correct. Make a 'casual monthly fee' and then it will make sence to not be able to access the same content (ie gears also). In any case, with less time to play, people have less time to get items and thus hardcore players still are a steps ahead in the game.

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You say that, but it's not the issue here. Two people buy a gym membership one goes 3 days a week the other 5... who's going to get more out of their membership?

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Originally Posted by Magiksmurf

Hardcore = accomplishment (gear) comes with hard work...
Casuals = i don't have time to play so gimme everything at level 1

I really hate casuals its cause of em MMO's get screwed since companies want to please everybody Wowcraft is a very good example.

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That's totally not true, I'm casual and I don't want everything at rank1 or whatever. Casual are about not having Time sink activities that makes no sense whatsoever. We want challenges! hard fight! We can work hard on things we want but it will just takes longer!

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Originally Posted by Tenchi

You say that, but it's not the issue here. Two people buy a gym membership one goes 3 days a week the other 5... who's going to get more out of their membership?

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Unemployed teroid pusher who spends 20 hours a day there <_<

Agreed with everything that has been said about the importance of player skills vs time spent on the game and the possibility for everyone who pays to play to have access to the total content of the game.

The only question I have is how do you keep hardcore players involved? If high-end content (dungeons/gear etc.) are not a significant time sink to have access to and to participate in, what will hardcore players do of their time beyond ranking each job to the top? And then what?

Personally, I'm a very casual player and I wasn't offended in XI when I was seeing other players with great gear compared to mine. Anyway the smart people were not expecting you to possess all this end game gear for every job, they were expecting you to be properly equipped at your level and know your job.

If I ever obtained such a hard to obtain piece of gear with the help of friends during a whole night of play I have to admit that the sense of accomplishment was great.

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Originally Posted by kanjitai

what is surplus SP? also I like how Zenaku said it. the definition of hardcore and casual. I feel I fall in between the two. I have time to play but don't want to spend hours on one thing.

best example relic armor from 11. 3+ hours with no guarantee you get a thing. I just want SE to give casual content as well as hardcore that way both sides have something to do.

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You know he is 100% NOT correct though and no... the time it took you to get gear don;t make any less worth. The challenge of the content or fight makes it worth it.

sorry but hardcore content = hard content not TIME SINK content. and difficaulty has NOTHTING to do with time.

will you get get that in your mind for once. That mantality you guys have make mmos seem like a joke. Who honestly thinks like that. Once you log off its not like what you just did is importent. On the game yes, not in real life.

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Originally Posted by northernsky

The only question I have is how do you keep hardcore players involved? If high-end content (dungeons/gear etc.) are not a significant time sink to have access to and to participate in, what will hardcore players do of their time beyond ranking each job to the top? And then what?

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personally the only real time sink should be leveling, it should take time to earn levels to get better at your roles.

But there is no need to have content be a time sink. Everyplayer should beable to do 100% of the content in any mmo. we all buy the game and pay the same fees

Why is it so hard for people to understand that. ffxi isn't doing so well in subs either. And they are revamping to that game to also be less time consuming. the only justified time sink is earning relic weapons mythic weapons etc. It took time because you were collecting the coins, anyone could do it.

Limiting acess to those who got time to play only drives players away. We don't want that.

Skip to TL: DR version if you are from the low attention span era. (not an insult, there are many many people that this affects for various reasons)

I find that this entire argument can be compared to the real world as it stands now. Sense of entitlement. I believe there is a generational gap in areas in the world where this is happening. The previous generation believes that hard work, and time dedicated to a craft should pay off, because it did. Meanwhile more and more, this generation is all about entitlement.

The fact that everyone deserves a chance at having what everyone else has. The issue is, we as a society have created this. More and more we grow up thinking that we can be anything we want to be if we follow a path. Usually that involves education in the desired path, ending with a degree in (chosen career). Now here is where things get screwy. The education system is a gimme system today. Hard work is no longer required, if you fail, take a make-up course and be given the free pass. You can be tested using the method of your choice, ensuring success. Your educators are at the will of the parents and the students. Students learn this, and learn that their educators have no real power, and take advantage of it. Parents are also now afraid to discipline children as they grow up, because children are taught this cycle that we are all entitled to a proper equal life. It's become a vicious circle that is spiraling.

Once education is complete, you are thrust into the working world. This world has began to match the education system. It's not quite so cut and dry though. In an effort to save costs, employers have slowly cut out the perks that employees received for being loyal, and loyal long-term employees are forced out of the company through some means. This has caused employees to have no loyalty. This lack of loyalty means employers know they can find another worker easily, and thus is another circle. Add in contract work, which also induces no company loyalty. At this point is where we add in a graduated student entering the workforce. They are introduced to a system that is looking for workers experienced workers, which have become easy to obtain. This new student feels all the "hard work" they did educating themselves will give them the job of their dreams. One of two things happen at this stage:

1: You are hired immediately because you knew someone, completing the entitlement cycle successfully.

2: You are not hired immediately, you spend a small amount of time trying before you give up. Once this happens you look for another "easy in" by researching another field, or similar field. This leads to our disappointed generation that takes jobs they do not like to survive, but its ok because that employer is not loyal to you, so you can move on at any time.

Certainly there are those that do not fit into this. Which is why there are various opinions on the subject. There are also others that see the circle differently entirely. This is but my viewpoint.

How it all relates to FFXIV:
The casual gamers are the entitlement era, and through no fault of their own want what everyone else has.

Mid-core gamers are this in between era. They recognize that hard works deserves more reward, but think they should be able to obtain a slice of the pie too. This group actually encompasses a couple different groups.

Hardcore gamers are the previous generation that truly believes that hard work should pay off, and that those who are from the entitlement era don't deserve the same rewards that they receive.

From the development side, dealing with players from all types of gamers is proving difficult. To combat this other companies have been trying to innovate constantly, and eventually cut out certain groups of gamers to become successful. See Call of Duty and WoW for a wonderful example, you can literally watch the evolution of this happening in these games where they change from one type of gamer to another in order to attain huge success. They are basically choosing the group with the highest numbers, which is the entitlement era currently. If SE wants to make large sums of money, they will likely do the same from a business point of view. Our opinions show SE which is the bigger pool of players. (I believe the F2P concept of MMOs were born from some these ideas. Hardcore players will play through the content, Entitlement players will purchase their way up. That's a whole other conversation though.)

TL: DR version:
The generation gap gamers mirrors the current generation gap in society, creating very distinct groups of gamer types. Companies have a hard time meeting the demands to of two conflicting gamer groups.

also the actual dungeons should be the challenge not how long it takes to get there nor how long the run is. If the time sink is in a sence doing the story to acess the content i'm sure no one minds that. But as long as the story content is only limited to those who can progress through it.

thats was ffxi flaw quests took so long to get done anyone who can't play 5+ hours couldn't do it. No one should feel they can't acess stuff all because of time.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

personally the only real time sink should be leveling, it should take time to earn levels to get better at your roles.

But there is no need to have content be a time sink. Everyplayer should beable to do 100% of the content in any mmo. we all buy the game and pay the same fees

Why is it so hard for people to understand that. ffxi isn't doing so well in subs either. And they are revamping to that game to also be less time consuming. the only justified time sink is earning relic weapons mythic weapons etc. It took time because you were collecting the coins, anyone could do it.

Limiting acess to those who got time to play only drives players away. We don't want that.

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I'm not sure I get your point.

If you're referring to NM spawning time, I agree that it was ridiculous in XI, XIV is not like that, that's good. Camping a NM is a waste of time, but working on long term goals is not.

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Originally Posted by Tenchi

You say that, but it's not the issue here. Two people buy a gym membership one goes 3 days a week the other 5... who's going to get more out of their membership?

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Right but both people have equal access to the gym's equipment. One just doesn't use it as often.

What you guys don't understand is the hardcores need things that allow them to be relatively unique from those that don't play as much. When you spend so much of your life on a video game you need something to make you feel special.

I don't really get why so many people would be upset if they came up with a few pieces of really hard to get powerful items. Sure, casuals have access to it, but it might take you 4 or 5 years to get where as it takes a hardcore 1-2 years.

You each pay for the game and there needs to be content for both forms of play styles. Just because they add some things for the hardcore doesn't mean there won't be plenty to do for casuals, or plenty of great gear that casuals have access to, it just means there are a few things you just don't play enough to really have time to get IE: A relic weapon.

Hardcores NEED things that pretty much only they will ever have (a couple/few really good rare items). Even WoW has had legendary items, does this mean casuals don't technically have access to it? No but if you've ever been in an endgame LS/guild you'd know the ones that play more will get them over the ones that don't. They put those legendary items in the game to appease the hardcore players.

It's as simple as this: Hardcores make up a good percentage of the player base and without anything to make them feel unique they WILL move onto another game.

I love challenge, i love things that take dedication to achieve. by most standards i am a "casual".
I don't want hand outs I just do not want to have to be lashed to a video game any more. I dont care if some one with no responsibilities gets there first. just as long as i am not bared from climbing the mountain at my pace.

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Originally Posted by Kazimir

What you guys don't understand is the hardcores need things that allow them to be relatively unique from those that don't play as much. When you spend so much of your life on a video game you need something to make you feel special.

I don't really get why so many people would be upset if they came up with a few pieces of really hard to get powerful items. Sure, casuals have access to it, but it might take you 4 or 5 years to get where as it takes a hardcore 1-2 years.

You each pay for the game and there needs to be content for both forms of play styles. Just because they add some things for the hardcore doesn't mean there won't be plenty to do for casuals, or plenty of great gear that casuals have access to, it just means there are a few things you just don't play enough to really have time to get IE: A relic weapon.

Hardcores NEED things that pretty much only they will ever have (a couple/few really good rare items). Even WoW has had legendary items, does this mean casuals don't technically have access to it? No but if you've ever been in an endgame LS/guild you'd know the ones that play more will get them over the ones that don't. They put those legendary items in the game to appease the hardcore players.

It's as simple as this: Hardcores make up a good percentage of the player base and without anything to make them feel unique they WILL move onto another game.

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What you don't understand is that time doesn't equal skill.

People who are better at the game than others will get things to make themselves unique. People who are both good and have more time will get more things, and faster. You're already ahead.

I understand this might be hard to see for people who only played Final Fantasy XI, a game that rewarded time commitment more than it rewarded your ability to play, but your way of thinking is both outdated and gone.

Even World of Warcraft's Legendary example that you keep on bringing up works against you: the guilds that obtained said items past the Burning Crusade did not have to spend obscene amounts of time playing: they had to play better. The raid lockouts were the same for everyone.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Right but both people have equal access to the gym's equipment. One just doesn't use it as often.

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Agree, right to the point.

BUT, now what some of these so called "hardcore" player (who insists in having hnm camping) wants is---

If you don't have time to spend doing NOTHING but WAITING for 3hours at the gym , then you have no access to some of the better gym equipments, how is that right?

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Originally Posted by Poipori

Agree, right to the point.

BUT, now what some of these so called "hardcore" player (who insists having hnm camping) wants is---

If you don't have time to spend doing NOTHING but WAITING for 3hours at the gym , then you have no access to some of the better gym equipments, how is that right?

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the gym analogy wouldnt work like that

lets look at how it really works

Both have access to all the equiptment, but the casuals are complaining they arent as in shape or fit, and cant lift as much as hardcores, and think that their 1 hour a week should let them bench 300 like the hardcores can.

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Originally Posted by Poipori

Agree, right to the point.

BUT, now what some of these so called "hardcore" player (who insists in having hnm camping) wants is---

If you don't have time to spend doing NOTHING but WAITING for 3hours at the gym , then you have no access to some of the better gym equipments, how is that right?

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Exactly. Then you have a problem with the schedule and availability of the gym's machines. Balance the schedule so the 'content' is available to everyone, but still, training more should put you in better shape in the end. Otherwise why train more?

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

the gym analogy wouldnt work like that

lets look at how it really works

Both have access to all the equiptment, but the casuals are complaining they arent as in shape or fit, and cant lift as much as hardcores, and think that their 1 hour a week should let them bench 300 like the hardcores can.

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No, many of the more casual players are NOT asking for EASY, spoon-feeding content, they just don't want stupid time-wasting content like camping NMs, we don't mind working a very very small steps towards the main goal each time we play, we don't mind getting the best item much much slower(some might not even get it before that best gear becomes obsolete)

What we don't want is content which requires us to waste our precious playing time in camping, doing nothing, WAITING for pop.

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Originally Posted by Tenchi

You say that, but it's not the issue here. Two people buy a gym membership one goes 3 days a week the other 5... who's going to get more out of their membership?

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Depends who works the hardest within the time they are there.

Plus one may decide to weight train and another to do cardio and fitness.

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Originally Posted by solracht

Even World of Warcraft's Legendary example that you keep on bringing up works against you: the guilds that obtained said items past the Burning Crusade did not have to spend obscene amounts of time playing: they had to play better. The raid lockouts were the same for everyone.

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Yeah, past Burning Crusade, when the complaints about WoW increased 100 fold.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

the gym analogy wouldnt work like that

lets look at how it really works

Both have access to all the equiptment, but the casuals are complaining they arent as in shape or fit, and cant lift as much as hardcores, and think that their 1 hour a week should let them bench 300 like the hardcores can.

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This^

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Originally Posted by Poipori

No, many of the more casual players are NOT asking for EASY, spoon-feeding content, they just don't want stupid time-wasting content like camping NMs, we don't mind working a very very small steps towards the main goal each time we play, we don't mind getting the best item much much slower(some might not even get it before that best gear becomes obsolete)

What we don't want is content which requires us to waste our precious playing time in camping, doing nothing, WAITING for pop.

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Hell I don't want to sit around wasting my time camping either, but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be anything that rewards hardcores for their time playing.

Just to clarify I'm not really what I would call a hardcore player. I'm just someone who's been a hardcore player before and I know what it takes to satisfy that player base. I also know when it comes right down to it the casuals won't really care about it in the end. They certainly didn't care about not having a relic weapon in XI.

Hardcores ignore the warnings and advisories to the straight up EXP reductions from SE trying to tell them "stop doing this", then they cry about the lack of reward. That's not the point of the game, and if that's not obvious by the giant "advisory" you have to click through every time you log in, well, that's a you problem.

That advisory might as well say "hardcores are not welcome here".

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Originally Posted by Poipori

No, many of the more casual players are NOT asking for EASY, spoon-feeding content, they just don't want stupid time-wasting content like camping NMs, we don't mind working a very very small steps towards the main goal each time we play, we don't mind getting the best item much much slower(some might not even get it before that best gear becomes obsolete)

What we don't want is content which requires us to waste our precious playing time in camping, doing nothing, WAITING for pop.

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the beauty of it is....you dont have to

do leve NMs if you dont want to camp a world NM, they gave you that option
and the world NMs spawn quick enough for this to not be as much an issue as in past games now

At this point its not about casual vs hardcore, but about who is WILLING to spend the time to do something

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Originally Posted by Alexis_Arteme

Hardcores ignore the warnings and advisories to the straight up EXP reductions from SE trying to tell them "stop doing this", then they cry about the lack of reward. That's not the point of the game, and if that's not obvious by the giant "advisory" you have to click through every time you log in, well, that's a you problem.

That advisory might as well say "hardcores are not welcome here".

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Yoshi-p said he is considering removing the surplus/fatigue.

Also that disclaiming is to cover SE's ass in the case of a law suit when a player doesn't know whats best for him, same reason why cigarettes have a label on them.

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Originally Posted by Poipori

No, many of the more casual players are NOT asking for EASY, spoon-feeding content, they just don't want stupid time-wasting content like camping NMs, we don't mind working a very very small steps towards the main goal each time we play, we don't mind getting the best item much much slower(some might not even get it before that best gear becomes obsolete)

What we don't want is content which requires us to waste our precious playing time in camping, doing nothing, WAITING for pop.

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This debate has clearly derailed and has become a 'should we make NMs so hard to camp that only hardcore players could get the rewards' debate.

Otherwise it seems that pretty much everyone agrees that any type of player should be rewarded for working on long term goals but that hardcore will reach them faster.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Yoshi-p said he is considering removing the surplus/fatigue.

Also that disclaiming is to cover SE's ass in the case of a law suit when a player doesn't know whats best for him, same reason why cigarettes have a label on them.

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Sure he did, at the constant and intense stream of boytears that's been flowing freely since release. Eventually, you just give the kid a damn pacifier.

Some here should probably read the warning label. I fear for society.

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Originally Posted by Xeno

First things first, Casuals do not = hardcore players. Even Yoshi agrees.

So what's the deal? Why is it that casual players feel that they should have the same awesome gear that the hardcore players have? This is absolutely beyond me. The more effort you put into something the greater the reward.

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The problem with that logic is that you end up with a community like WOW where people call you a noob if you don't have the rarest most powerful gear in the game and won't even invite you for endgame content.

The goal is to give the opportunity for both casual and hardcore players to experience the same thing.

This thread is named "The growing entitlement issues of the casuals", yet all i am seeing is hardcore players having entitlement issues >.>.

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Originally Posted by Kazimir

Yeah, past Burning Crusade, when the complaints about WoW increased 100 fold.

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You mean when the quality and subscriptions of the game increased 100 fold. The fact that your dying breed was kicked off that game, just like they're going to get kicked off every MMORPG they try from now on does not mean the games are getting worse.

Either way, if you were going to bring up the way WoW's endgame worked when the cap was level 60 (like 6 years ago), don't bother. You might as well keep on mentioning HNMs to back up how a game should work. The entire raiding scene of WoW was not accessible unless you had a lot of time at level 60, just because of the nature of 40man raids.

Nice job ignoring the rest of the post too.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Um, not for nothing,but I find this implausible...especially unconvincing is why you think surplus should go. Surplus by its own nature, helps people like you.

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lol how is it implausible? i dont think its right simple as that everyone can't play there own way why force those have the time to level or rank ( that i dont have). To change there class it lame i may not have the time and they may get head of me but why should they be held back because im not as on as often and also i have hit surplus on my day off and it bugs the crap out of me how it hinder me from grinding in my free time.

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

The problem with that logic is that you end up with a community like WOW where people call you a noob if you don't have the rarest most powerful gear in the game and won't even invite you for endgame content.

The goal is to give the opportunity for both casual and hardcore players to experience the same thing.

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That's only because WoW has such a strong emphasis on gear. FFXI was never like that because your character and skill was the biggest factor in how good you were, not your overpowered equipment. The equipment just increased your skill but it wasn't the sole basis for how good you were. You could technically kill anything in the game just using your AF gear. Hopefully XIV will be the same.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

the beauty of it is....you dont have to

do leve NMs if you dont want to camp a world NM, they gave you that option
and the world NMs spawn quick enough for this to not be as much an issue as in past games now

At this point its not about casual vs hardcore, but about who is WILLING to spend the time to do something

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Then why even bother implementing such a boring content?

There are many other ways to implement difficult content, it does not have to be camping HNM.

You should be fighting monster, doing quest in a game. Not staring at the screen, WAITING for 3hrs.

Is "camping" the only way to "hardcore"?

I'm sure even some hardcore players dislike camping, but they "have to" do it, because it gives the best gear.

So why should a game even have such mindless, boring way of doing thing?

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Originally Posted by Tenchi

You say that, but it's not the issue here. Two people buy a gym membership one goes 3 days a week the other 5... who's going to get more out of their membership?

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They both have access to the same equipement at the gym. One will get fitter faster than the other one ^^

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Originally Posted by solracht

You mean when the quality and subscriptions of the game increased 100 fold. The fact that your dying breed was kicked off that game, just like they're going to get kicked off every MMORPG they try from now on does not mean the games are getting worse.

Either way, if you were going to bring up the way WoW's endgame worked when the cap was level 60 (like 6 years ago), don't bother. You might as well keep on mentioning HNMs to back up how a game should work. The entire raiding scene of WoW was not accessible unless you had a lot of time at level 60, just because of the nature of 40man raids.

Nice job ignoring the rest of the post too.

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I read the rest of your post. "You have to play better". Then I laughed. Hi2u Hellscream's Warsong and Strength of Wrynn. Yeah, WoW is all about challenge now. *rolls eyes*

This is why instanced content works so well in other games. It's accessible to everyone, but you add in a low drop rate. Everyone has the same chance per instance, but the Hardcore groups can go more often. Attending more often gives more rewards due to this. It even matches the gym theory.

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Originally Posted by Alexis_Arteme

Some here should probably read the warning label. I fear for society.

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Well the minority that live in their parents basement aren't really part of society to begin with, you actually have to leave the house to do that :P

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Originally Posted by Poipori

Then why even bother implementing such a boring content?

There are many other ways to implement difficult content, it does not have to be camping HNM.

You should be fighting monster, doing quest in a game. Not staring at the screen, WAITING for 3hrs.

Is "camping" the only way to "hardcore"?

I'm sure even some hardcore players dislike camping, but they "have to" do it, because it gives the best gear.

So why should a game even have such mindless, boring way of doing thing?

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Why? thats easy

BECAUSE PEOPLE WANTED IT.

Thats right, when the NMs were first announced, people were extremely concerned that there would be no world bosses to fight. It was never about spawn rates with them, just their existance in general.

In every game, some people will find certain content extremely boring, guess what, those people can skip that content!
Dont like world NMs, do the quest ones, we have BOTH, thats the beauty of how they added them and will more then likely continue to add them.


Camping isnt about hardcore or not hardcore, the whole thing behind it before was how much time it takes, Alot of the casual vs hardcore debate is about time consumption. If a NM took 3-24 hours to camp....casuals didnt have a chance. Now the timer is what, an hour? tops? and you know exactly what time he spawns in game(they have a specific time they spawn after all) so you can just show up then? Sounds like it catered to the casual crowd to me.(in a good way)

but some other things being asked for can get rediculous

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Originally Posted by Abriael

I'm amazed to see people still advocating horribly boring timesinks to weed out the competition of people that simply play less time a day than they do, as it shows how they're willing to effectively have less fun themselves in order to be able to wave around an e-peen bigger than their peers.

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QFT. That other thread completely turned into "I just want things that only I who can invest 10+hrs a day can get that most other people can't attempt to get" for nothing more than to wag their e-peen in other people's faces, and on top of that equating it to "skill".

I agree with a lot in this thread, that casual player doesn't necessarily mean a bad player. I somewhat fall in between casual and hardcore myself, (atm I just don't only play this game since there isn't too much to do currently) and have never asked to log in with all gear and levels handed to me. There is a big difference from just handing people things on a silver platter, and making content "available" for everyone to do without investing 10 hours of the day. I'm sure there are people who ask for everything given to them, but they are most likely in the minority. Just like in that other thread, the people asking for ridiculous NM spawn timers are clearly in the minority as well.

For casual players they SHOULD have access to everything the hardcore players can get, HOWEVER that does not mean they can get it as fast. I'll use a few examples. Having a drop based gear from normal mobs or NM mobs(not faction) lets say you get coins from these mobs off certain NM and random low % off normal mobs, once you collect enough you can exchange it for a good piece of gear. A player who plays more will have more chances at coins while a casually player will have chances to, they both have equal chances of getting the item, just it will take one longer then the other.

I for one consider myself a hardcore player, now I do think other hardcore players like myself who spend a lot more time on game should have better chances for getting content done or IG gear, but I also do not think if you add in for instance 24 hour spawns is fair to the casually gamer who can hardly, if at all ever have a chance to kill a mob themselves solo or with LS members. Having equal access is what we need, but as for how long it takes, that should go to the players who play more.

So essentially make everything of equal access to players, but if you induce a system where a player who plays more gets more stuff faster and/or better, then that would be a fair trade off to casually players, they can still get the same stuff, it would just take them longer.

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Originally Posted by Kazimir

I read the rest of your post. "You have to play better". Then I laughed. Hi2u Hellscream's Warsong and Strength of Wrynn. Yeah, WoW is all about challenge now. *rolls eyes*

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Not even going to argue about Warcraft's endgame strategies, which are about "when" you beat the content, with the window being smaller than in other MMORPGs, but I was talking about this:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by solracht

What you don't understand is that time doesn't equal skill.

People who are better at the game than others will get things to make themselves unique. People who are both good and have more time will get more things, and faster. You're already ahead.

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I haven't seen any of you guys ask for hard content, you're either asking for time-consuming content or content that only a linkshell can access per day. Nobody is going to cater to that if they care about their game.

You'll most likely get your hard content, however. If you're good, you'll beat it. You'll get the armor to show off for being actually good. If you're bad and can't... then maybe you didn't deserve it, even if you spent your 10 daily hours trying.