Yeah, nothing else comes to mind... there's no skill that even seems to become remotely obsolete when you change to a job from a class. I think it's more that Carby is being 'upgraded' to the elemental Primals.
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Anything is possible, i just have a hard time seein how you can use carby on arcanist but not summoner. My interpretation of that is it is an arcanist ability. Just as thundaga says thaumaturgy only, yet blm still gets it. Not that i wont use summoner, but ill be rolling arcanist the majority of the time if they implement the single shot summons. I was honestly hoping for a pet class, whether it was bst or pup or smn or w/e.
The SMN Primals would obviously be a lot stronger than Carby, and a lot more specialised in terms of job/role (if they do perma-pets). So even if they did allow Carby to be used by SMN I don't think anybody would use it. Maybe they're making it Arcanist only because some people were/are complaining that there's next to no reason to use any classes above jobs?
That is pretty much my theory on all of this as well, each of the summons being a colour of the rainbow perhaps?
If they do bring the lesser forms of primals as pets/spells i hope they copy the Carbuncle form of two versions. Though it would mean a whole lot of summons(though xi had elementals) it would be a chance for other summons to become obtainable like for example Garuda physical dps/buffer and Typhon magical dps/debuffer. Ifrit physical Dps/buffer and Phoenix magical dps/healer. You could gain access to the lesser forms of the 6 main primals through the Summoner job quest and gain access to more through instanced fights with a team.
I doubt there'd be 2 versions of each Primal, but could be wrong. I'd like to see a healer Primal though! Kirin/Unicorn/Phoenix or something... but I think they might come along if they decide to add a second job crystal to each class. It would be nice to have 2 different styles of summoning.
This is a very interesting thread ^^ Thanks OP!
Lots of nice ideas in here, but I'm still with the perma-pet crowd :p. It is a pet class, so it's only logical that a pet should be present (whether permanently or for a limited period of time).
Putting everything into consideration (mainly talking about SMN here), why not have a SMN class that has a pet present AND has a powerful 1-shot move? Too powerful? not if balanced properly! Please hear me out.
- Summoning a pet costs the SMN MP, and drains TP while it's present (a specific summon can stay for a maximum of 15-20mins after being summoned before it disappears, lore-wise also makes sense because their presence drains aether)
- TP (or maybe they call it SP for summoning points?) is drained at different paces by different pets. (stronger drains more)
- Each pet is it's own entity when summoned! It has it's own HP/MP.
- Each pet has a set of 7 moves (just like what Tonkra said) to be unlocked, the more you use the pet the more moves you unlock. The final move to learn is obviously its "signature move".
- Using these moves consumes the pet's MP not the SMN's. There should be an ability for the SMN to transfer his MP to his pet and vice versa.
- Each pet has a "power" gauge that builds up during battle. When it reaches maximum (gauge starts flashing and depleting), then we can use the final move (before the gauge depletes, 30secs window?). However, the pet will disappear after using it and be "exhausted" for a set period of time. Other pets can be summoned in after it if the required MP/ TP are available. If gauge depletes before being used then, Sorry... you missed it :rolleyes:
- If the TP is fully drained while a pet is summoned, the pet will disappear and be "exhausted" for a set period of time.
This way your main strength is your pet (the way I think it should be), and taking advantage of it's full power is the main key (the idea of the gauge is so that not everyone starts spamming "Hellfire" the moment they see a boss). I'm not saying this is perfect, but it's some sort of a middle ground.
I really hope it's a perma-pet class :D
Thanks for the contribution, these are some nice ideas =)
If they use the TP bar then 15 mins may be a bit long, since it shouldn't take too long to regenerate, but I suppose it'd be a bit scary being without your pet for a little while >.>
Could also be drained faster by performing certain abilities? Would their "Special" drain it almost completely? A nice little dilemma about keeping it out longer or performing a strong attack would be nice ;) Kinda allows for a '1-shot' type of method in that having a pet out constantly may not be as powerful as someone who goes straight for 'building the gauge' thing you mentioned, but leaves them without a pet for a little while.
I like this. In XI they used the SMNs MP pool for moves and I didn't like that very much =/
Not really sure how this would work. Wouldn't people just stand outside and kill weak mobs over and over again to unlock these other moves?
I don't really like this =$ Don't see the point in keeping the MP pools seperate if you can just transfer between the two,
This ^ =)
So, would you think dismissing the pet earlier would be more beneficial?
I think what he was getting at was that when you summon a primal you would have to unlock actions by making them participate in battle and that after they leave battle it resets. A way to limit Summoners from using High powered Aoe moves to wipe out droves of enemies instantly for experience points/power leveling like they did in xi. I'm not sure that it would be needed though because as far as we know there are no 2 hours in ARR instead we have limitbreaks(redesigned battle regiment system) which pretty much does the job this kind of limiter would combat the only thing that could possibly need limiting is the 15 minute ability and we dont know what exactly that will be.
Oh I see! That's a pretty cool idea, then =) Like, having to perform 10 actions before a 'special' becomes available?
The EXP farming with Avatars in XI was kinda buggy in that way, especially in Abyssea when they added Zantetsuken. Instant KO is a bit of a godly feature in MMOs as it is, let alone making it AoE.
The 15 min skills are the XIV equivalent of XI's 2-hour. Just lowering the time made them more useful and better applied to general battles and stuff. I don't think they'll add any recasts which are higher than 15 mins.
They are but they arent all the same as their XI equivalents for example Blm does not have Manafont and dragoon does not have call pet/spirit surge. Bard also has a different ability so there is plenty of room for SE to decide to do something different with it. Theres also people saying that free roaming mobs wont reward as much exp as they do now as well due to SE wanting the playerbase to do quests and instances for Experience points. If thats true then even if the 15 ability is a aoe damage ability for each primal then it may not even be an issue in ARR.
I'm not really against it but if your in the crowd of wanting to be able to swap in/out summons then that option has pretty much been blocked off, which maybe was tenrai's intention. It would push players to stick with one summon for long periods of time like the aoe buffs Avatars gave later in xi's life and possibly give more reason to have multiple Summoners in one party.
I don't know if the EXP is changing oer mob kill, but I noticed on the gameplay videos that you needed 500k EXP to get to level 50, so... that's going to be fun =b
I hope you're right about keeping summons out for longer though, I HATED having to summon for a single move and then make the Avatar retreat... it was so boring and just seemed like it was more effort than it was worth =/
what i meant OP was it would seem wrong to take a pet class and have it change into a one shot job. I do agree with you if carby was replaced by more specialized pets people would use the latter. Im just concerned that the pet job ive been waitin the better part of a year is going to be relegated to just a class.
I personally am not a fan of carbuncle, i am a diehard ffxi lolpup. I wanted a pet job. Another way to interperet things is that summoner will still have carby, but gain the one shot spells and abilities to be used simultaneously while having him out. Having an ifrit move which creates a single crack under mobs or a garuda move to push back mobs doesnt seem op to me while still having carby out as long as its balanced properly.
Ah I see. After reading all of these posts I'm pretty sure they're going to be perma-pets now, I didn't think so at the start but by reading people's opinions they'd be silly to make them single-shot pets (even though I'd quite like it). Supposedly classes were supposed to be solo jobs, whereas jobs were specialised for parties, in which case switching pet Carby out for nukes would make logical sense, since the Primal roles could easily be covered by other people's jobs, but I don't think that's the route they're taking.
As long as there's some kind of regulation that stops everyone running around towns with Ifrit running around then I won't really care =b My pet-hate (*cough*) about perma-pets is that everyone runs around town thinking that theirs is special! WE ALL HAVE ONE, LEAVE ME ALONE!
Well the TP bar was supposed to drain by time (not skills used), 1TP/sec would give the pet around 16mins. However, when your TP runs out the pet vanishes and has a CD, and you call another one as soon as your TP regens (in the ARR videos it regens at 100TP/3-5secs?). So you shouldn't be waiting too much to be able to summon your next :). But if you decide to use the signature move then this move is the Only one that drains all your TP and makes the pet disappear (same as in FFXII). So signature move = TP fully drained.
What I had in mind was what Alaltus said. These attack get unlocked during the fight. I got this from looking at the primal battles themselves, you don't see Ifrit calling hell as soon as we /wave at him ^^. He starts smacking us on the head, then gradually gets more angry the more he's fighting.
You have a point. This will make them have humongous MP pools... So NO MORE! xD
Pet's run out of MP? Use ether or elixir on it :cool:
Yes! Dismissing the pet without TP running out/ using the signature move will not result with the "exhausted" CD. You'll only have to wait for your TP to fill up again, which is a couple secs.
Oh and RULE #1: You cannot summon pets in cities! xD I'm sure it's going to be like that :p
I love everything about these posts; just seems like we're making up our own rules xD
I hope what you said about summoning in cities being right... last thing I want to do is toggle between being able to select retainers and the countless Carbuncles everywhere o.O
Im REALLY liking the idea someone had of having to use abilities to unlock more. Whether they are perma pets or one shots this would be cool. Maybe we could have some kind of a rage meterthat fills? Like someone said your pet could get more and more pissed off until it does its super and then vanishes.
Keeping m fingers crossed for info in the live letter. The servers will be down. No reason at that point to be dodgy and misleading anymore imho.
Well Now that SE confirmed that we are getting the essences of the Primals. there is NO reason why we cant have Bahamut now! Or atleast make him the Summoner Limit so all the complainers saying that Bahamut is to strong for Summoners to have.
Like ive stated before Bahamut should be a harder relic equivalent to obtain. Which would involve having to actually fight him in the end of it like in Most FF titles you fight him you get him.
Sssh, they love it.
Bahamut would be amazing. I think it's likely too, even if just as a limit break, because lots of people complained and were disappointed about not getting him in XI. I think Yoshi would like to implement him =) I hope so, anyway.
Id like to see some summons not in ffxi. Phoenix would be great and give us some versatility. Something to further make the ffxiv summoner its own entity aside from the xi incarnation.
There are so many to choose from the older games, i dont really need to see the whole ifrit shiva ramuh done this time. Lets use some more obscure summons.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the concept art of Siren yet.
*EDIT* Nevermind.. I just didn't read that far yet.
*EDIT 2*
I would love to see primals in open world roaming, however I would also like the classic FF style entrance into an instance - screen fuzzes out, battle music starts, then you enter the battle instance. That is how I imagined the open world primals to be like when they were first talked about. But oh well.
Me too =) I'm quite looking to see if they add any support summons, like Phoenix, Unicorn, Kirin, or Sylph. Would make a nice change of pace from the majority of pet classes.
I think she's just going to be wandering -or- be a part of the storyline, although I hope we get to use her.
D= This is such a good idea! I can imagine it'll give a lot of people heart-attacks though. Just running around, minding your own business, and then the screen cracks and people throw their controllers at the screen and hide under their duvets. It was bad enough in X when you KNEW it was going to happen...
...My heart...
I would like to have an open dungeon and instanced battle for each primal.
As an example a vulcano dungeon open for all in middle of a snow field which leads you to an instanced Ifrit battle.
Summons should be at a place that fits their element like Ifrit, Odin, Tonberry King or Bahamut in FFVIII.
And you need to fight them to get the "essence" or whatever summon.
But if they didn't already decide to do it somehow that way it's already to late anyway :P
For storyline and job quests id like to see instances. Just a regular battle to get the summon for your free company or drops or w/e id rather see open world.
Further more they should do it like you do some of the events in gw2. There is no claiming the mob, everyone helps out. A giant chest pops when the mob dies and you get loot. As far as primals, whoever gets the kill shot should get the summon.
This would be good =) Having to battle through a mass of Fire-mobs before you reach Iffy >=D Like little 'tests'.
I don't think they'd do it like in XI in the sense that just killing the Primal in any of the instances for obtaining weapons (e.g., In For Garuda Wakeneing) would allow you to summon Garoody. I hope they kind of do it like this though. Like if the job quest for obtaining Ifrit was a solo fight against him in your own little instance! I guess it would be like the Mini-Avatar fights in XI, since you could only use Carbuncle in those fights and if you were doing these as Arcanist would be a very similar situation. Besides, I'd like to beat up Iffy with my Carby <3
Sounds like the Atomos fights for the Voidstone, or how XI did the whole "Voidwalk" thing, where loads of people just killed a mob and everyone gained a reward. Would be easier and more fun if anyone/everyone could help out =) The last-hit thing probably wouldn't work though, as it'd just have loads of people stood there waiting to Holy at the last second and steal it. Would be so annoying ><
Maybe a way to calculate which free company helped the most in bringing it down. Kinda how in gw2 or even in xiv in caravan you get a rating based on how much you help. Highest ratin wins the primal. None of it matters though because primals will be instanced.
Hopefully ART/SMN is a cool class, if Blm still plays the same in 2.0 this will be my new main. If it's bad too, might main Ryajin from then on :/
I would like to see a video of how summoner plays, hopefully we get to see something during the downtime?
Yeah, I'm hoping that BLM gets a massive revamp too... at the moment only certain jobs are good against certain elements. Like you won't be able to use BLMs on Titan, so unless you have another job you're screwed really! Heh.
In 20 hours from now is the Live Letter IV, HOPEFULLY we'll get loads of info then. I'll be adding anything related to the thread as it goes along =)
I vote we all post arcanist summoner stuff here after the live letter if we get more. This has been a really good thread and weve all been nice to each other....... Wierd huh.
Seriously disappointed with the lack of info we obtained about SMN, but there was a little snip about Arcancist! Here're some of their weapons and an unofficial translation done by the amazing Reinhart:
(Full translation @ https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...eview?sle=true)
F: For Arcanist can you summon something other than carbuncle? Want other information, details.
Y: They will be able to call different types of carbuncles so basically as Arcanist you will be able to summon only carbuncle at the start but with expansion it may be possible to summon other creatures but for now it’s only carbuncle.
Great Labyrinth of Bahamut Reward:
http://i45.tinypic.com/2m6msls.jpg
Grand Company:
(Looks like Storm, to me)
http://i48.tinypic.com/2w7ebly.png
Summoner Artifact:
http://i49.tinypic.com/23jfksx.png
Arcanist Specific:
http://i50.tinypic.com/690p6t.png
(I apologise for the sucky detail)
Official translation:
Q34: Is there anything else besides Carbuncle for arcanist? Any other new information besides arcanist, summoner, artifact, and relics?
A35: Arcanist will basically only use Carbuncle, but there is a chance we expand on this in the future. It's a bit tough to release new information right now, but there are these things... (Shows arcanist rewards for Great Labyrinth of Bahamut, arcanist book that can be purchased with grand company seals, job equipment for summoner, class-specific arcanist equipment)