Genderlocked gear. Again.

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Originally Posted by Merunari

https://convert.vxtwitter.com/render...REXgAAgLzb.png

Can we please either have two sets of armor that we can choose the pieces from or have a toggle to switch between them? The continuation of genderlocked gearsets feels like a slap in the face after all the effort put into un-genderlocking glamour gear.

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yea been here, complained about this. i love being punished for playing a guy despite se going out of there way to make them so hot. :'D

Something doesn't quite add-up either, if the midriff-less version PIC AF gear is there, how come Yoshida-san didn't wear it on JP Fanfest...?

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Originally Posted by Pigeonpii

Huge shame. It gets a little disheartening when you see a glam you really like only for it to look different on your own character simply because they are the opposite gender model.

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The heart of the issue. It's annoying to be arbitrarily locked out of a good looking gear. Locks bring nothing to the game.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

If it's not possible to give the option to toggle between different gendered designs, then I would love to see an option implemented – at least for featured stuff like job gear – where multiple interchangeable gear items are made available.

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A toggle like the one for hats or visors would be best, but an exchange would at least give us more to work with.

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Originally Posted by Epikairekakia

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GPcmJXoa...pg&name=medium

And I'd like to add something design-related thing. Sometimes the clothing for male characters seems to be a downgraded version of the clothing for female characters.(sorry i couldn't add Dancer gear, but i think there are some simillar issues.)

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This is an excellent silhouette comparison, thank you. I'm glad it highlights that it wasn't just that the Pictomancer shirt was lengthened downwards, but upwards as well. The female version isn't just a crop top, it's also lower cut.

Really disappointed with the differences, especially for pictomancer. Genderlocking doesn't only disappoint those who would like their male character to show more skin (it's a vacation expansion after all...) but also those who would prefer their female character to appear more modest. If a toggle is not possible, multiple gear items would be great.

At the very least, show the art etc. immediately for both options in the future, so we are not as disappointed. I stupidly hoped the genderlocking would end and the pictomancer gear would look the same on the male character for a few months.

Agreed with OP, please stop gender locking gear and outfit style types. :/

Is it confirmed that both Hrothgar and Viera can't wear PIC AF hat?

If that's the case, I genuinely feel bad for both male viera and male hrothgar player, not only they can't wear the PIC AF hat, but also getting neutered version of PIC AF gear...

Can we please just not acknowledge the people intentionally spewing transphobia other than to report them? It's obvious bait and by trying to dunk on them, all you're doing is taking that bait, which is clearly what they want. It contributes nothing to the actual thread.

Dawntrail launches pretty much for most players in 20 days, They've got much much more going on than adjusting outfits, I don't think this thread will change their minds, even the JP players are not saying anything about all this so yeah, sorry you guys.

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

Dawntrail launches pretty much for most players in 20 days, They've got much much more going on than adjusting outfits, I don't think this thread will change their minds, even the JP players are not saying anything about all this so yeah, sorry you guys.

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I'm not sure where you're getting the impression that this change would have to be instantaneous and ready for launch? Yes, that would be ideal but, as you said, there's less than three weeks until Dawntrail launches. That's likely not enough time to build a toggle system or make the additional models necessary if they decided to give both options. That doesn't mean expressing dissatisfaction and offering feedback over it is meaningless. Especially after all their efforts thus far in addressing genderlocked gear. None of that would have happened without player feedback, and that's what this thread is.

Honestly...SE somehow makes people feel 'forced' to play female characters, just because their glamour (and hair options) are almost always better.
I met several people who play female chars just for this reason. Because of huge frustration about the differences in quality between the gender models,
and not because they prefered to play female in general.

I mean..., I really don't get why for example the new Reaper glam has less difference in shapes.
Why the males don't get these little decorative holes in the trousers? That makes no sense. And it feels always like a slap in the face.
If you play male and Viera, you have maximal disadvantage for glamour. ^^"

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Originally Posted by Heavenchild

If you play male and Viera, you have maximal disadvantage for glamour. ^^"

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I'd say that Male Hrothgars are the ones who have the maximum disadvantage.
not only do they share the same problem with hats as Viera, but they also have the bent over pose which makes a lot of gear look weird.
Not to mention the tail that clips through capes and stuff.

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

I'd say that Male Hrothgars are the ones who have the maximum disadvantage.
not only do they share the same problem with hats as Viera, but they also have the bent over pose which makes a lot of gear look weird.
Not to mention the tail that clips through capes and stuff.

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I said Viera because there are headpieces that Hrothgars can wear that Viera are not able to wear.
For expample the archfiend helm (pvp reward), all the tarnished face masks from the garo sets, or even the elemental helmets from the relic armour sets from Stormblood.
I realized this when I played Viera and felt excluded when people wore full Garo sets. :')

Tail clipping is a problem in general. Same with bad poses. Male Miqote also have a really strange pose, that is unusable.
I switched to Hyr to get rid of some problems. But of course they have other ones. At least, after the 7.0 update my face texture won't be such a mess anymore. :)

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Originally Posted by Heavenchild

I said Viera because there are headpieces that Hrothgars can wear that Viera are not able to wear.
For expample the archfiend helm (pvp reward), all the tarnished face masks from the garo sets, or even the elemental helmets from the relic armour sets from Stormblood.
I realized this when I played Viera and felt excluded when people wore full Garo sets. :')

Tail clipping is a problem in general. Same with bad poses. Male Miqote also have a really strange pose, that is unusable.
I switched to Hyr to get rid of some problems. But of course they have other ones. But at least, after the 7.0 update my face texture won't be such a mess anymore. :)

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Have you seen some of the helmets that Hrothgars can wear?
it deforms the shape of the head so if there wasn't a tail sticking out at the back, one could've thought it was a Roe with a bad back.
Just because Hrothgars can wear some headpieces Viera can't, doesn't mean it's always a good thing.

For me personally it is more worse not to be able to use something in general.

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Originally Posted by Heavenchild

For me personally it is more worse not to be able to use something in general.

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I wonder if the general public would have the same point of view if the tradeoff was for the Vieras ears being removed when wearing certain headpieces.
Like how Hrothgars head shapes can be replaced with standard hyur ones.

Better to be able to wear than not like you said.

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Originally Posted by Heavenchild

I said Viera because there are headpieces that Hrothgars can wear that Viera are not able to wear.

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I don't see the point in counting glamours up just by exact numbers, "he can wear 21 things and I can only wear 20", when ultimately it comes down to how many pieces look good on the character – and I feel like Viera are at an advantage, not disadvantage, on that front.

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

I wonder if the general public would have the same point of view if the tradeoff was for the Vieras ears being removed when wearing certain headpieces.
Like how Hrothgars head shapes can be replaced with standard hyur ones.

Better to be able to wear than not like you said.

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Yes, I would prefer to remove the ears for the ability to wear stuff. :)
I was always fine with miqo ears cut off, in exchange to be able to wear certain headpieces.

But common...
I really don't like it how people in this forums are not able to stay with the topic.
It's about gendered gear. Not about personal preference for race restrictions.

I just made a side comment about male Viera can wear the smallest number of pieces.
But I don't know why we are talking about this, when the theme of this thread is different quality for gender models.

Such useless discussions are one reason why actual feedback stays unseen. Who want's to fight through pages full of offtopic discussion?
I read not much here in this forum because most threads are full of offtopic stuff. x3

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Originally Posted by Heavenchild

Yes, I would prefer to remove the ears for the ability to wear stuff. :)
I was always fine with miqo ears cut off, in exchange to be able to wear certain headpieces.

But common...
I really don't like it how people in this forums are not able to stay with the topic.
It's about gendered gear. Not about personal prefernce for race restrictions.

I just made a side comment about male Viera can wear the smallest number of pieces.
But I don't know why we are talking about this, when the theme of this thread is different quality for gender models.

Such useless discussions are one reason why actual feedback stays unseen. Who want's to fight through pages full of offtopic discussion?
I read not much here in this forum because most threads are full of offtopic stuff. x3

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I didn't say anything earlier, but in the end you both kept it going.

Which, at least you both got a understanding or viewpoint for yourselves.

Some adjacency is fine(from my POV) if it fits the topic. (Like GenderLock <-> Role/Job Unlock adjacency)

Just like Racial traits and Race being adjacent to HigherVfx transformations removing racial traits, rather than morphing your racial traits.(Just like Zenos limbs did at the end)

But at least we on rails again.

I really hope they let us choose between the Picto tops.
This is not the Pictomancer I was excited for and I can't overstate how disappointed I was with the reveal.

This is particularly bad practice for situations where there is no alternative glamour to achieve the intended look (specifically things like artifact armor)
Because the FF art team does this so often, there are no shorts for male characters to make the SCH armor match the F version - we cannot even glamour it ourselves to fix it, because there ARE NO alternatives. Everything is slacks or too-long shorts that will tuck into the SCH's very high bootpants.

Artifact armor in general is supposed to have an iconic look and vibe, and for SCH and PCT that vibe was gutted for male characters. It feels very hollow, but more importantly for Picto:

It does not look like finished work.
This is a new job and its artifact armor looks like a sloppy, hasty edit.
In fairness to the team, I think it probably was a hasty edit because so many were busy with the benchmark rush.
But in this case why was it even changed? Why take the extra time to make it look worse on purpose?

I was expecting to be disappointed by an edit like this, but we were deprived of even the bare minimum:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GPaU01NX...png&name=small

Please at least respect the job's aesthetic when making such unnecessary changes...

(ah well Kathryn deleted their post but I will still react to it)

I mean personally yeah I would like to show less skin?
But because I play with a F model I have to carefully pick what skirts and dresses I wear if I don't want to be staring at my underwear everytime I ride a mount, because I'm not allowed to have tights or shorts or at least long socks with most of them.
On the DNC AF gear (both past ones and the new one) I prefer the color scheme and vibe of the M version, but I can't wear it.
Same thing with the Nier gear.
Same thing with the Neo-Ishgardian gear and its reskin.
Same thing with the GARO gear.
I would have liked to wear the Summer Sunset M bottoms too, I have enough bikini underpants already...

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Originally Posted by SchwarzwaelderTorte

I would have liked to wear the Summer Sunset M bottoms too, I have enough bikini underpants already...

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It's really disappointing that those pants aren't an option. I have a fem alt and it's so frustrating trying to manage glams when barely any of the leg armor matches it's icon. It's a wildly different wardrobe and the game gives you no hints until you Try On each piece.

In any other game it would be considered a bug for the icon and the armor to mismatch so completely, but people with fem mains just live like that?

All of the differences in that list bug me to no end... I really wish we could at least have the flowers and butterfly from the garo sets, like they don't even need to remodel those......

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Originally Posted by Heavenchild

Honestly...SE somehow makes people feel 'forced' to play female characters, just because their glamour (and hair options) are almost always better.
I met several people who play female chars just for this reason. Because of huge frustration about the differences in quality between the gender models,
and not because they prefered to play female in general.

I mean..., I really don't get why for example the new Reaper glam has less difference in shapes.
Why the males don't get these little decorative holes in the trousers? That makes no sense. And it feels always like a slap in the face.
If you play male and Viera, you have maximal disadvantage for glamour. ^^"

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Yeah, I'm often envious of my friends and all the gorgeous glams they get to wear on their female characters. It's not enough to actually make me Fanta, but it does get tempting sometimes.

Oh please give us the male version of the dancer outfit, that looks so much better
yeah i'm all for these being ungenderlocked if i can get that for my miqo

Just wanted to add that I am also very disappointed by this. In a way, I hate this version of gender-locking gear more than two separate sets. At least with two sets, I know I can't wear one right-away, as opposed to seeing a piece of gear, seeing I can wear it, but oh! it looks... nothing like the version of it that I liked.

Please stop doing this.

There's two types of genderlocked gear:

There's the type that has two different items, each wearable by one gender.

And there's the type that has only one item, technically wearable by both, but it looks wildly different depending on which gender wears it.

They've taken amazing steps resolving the genderlocks of the first type. The second type, however, seems to only be getting worse, and it's not a good development.

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Originally Posted by SchwarzwaelderTorte

I would have liked to wear the Summer Sunset M bottoms too, I have enough bikini underpants already...

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If I may offer another example of this specifically: the Endless Summer set from 2018. It's not just the shirt and bottoms, even the shoes are different, because apparently women need cute sandals and can't just wear standard flip-flops.

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Originally Posted by Merunari

If I may offer another example of this specifically: the Endless Summer set from 2018. It's not just the shirt and bottoms, even the shoes are different, because apparently women need cute sandals and can't just wear standard flip-flops.

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Meanwhile, the male version of the shoes from that set inexplicably uses the "muted" version of the dye colour while the female version uses the direct colour.

One time I fantasiaed an alt from a female character to male, and I had set up a cute beach outfit with that set which I expected to look different-but-also-cute once genderswapped, but the shoes turned from red to pink and ruined it. :/

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Originally Posted by Merunari

If I may offer another example of this specifically: the Endless Summer set from 2018. It's not just the shirt and bottoms, even the shoes are different, because apparently women need cute sandals and can't just wear standard flip-flops.

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Ooooh right I completely forgot about the flip-flops... I was thinking "hmm, maybe it's because by default all F models wear heels even when not wearing anything, so it's harder to implement?" (iirc that's why they took a while to release Viera, and also why the 2B boots look really weird with some animations), but with all the Island Sanctuary glamour most shoes are flat, so...
Maybe it only took them a while to find a workaround and we'll get... FF themed flip flops next summer, idk.

Slightly off question but... the DNC's 'shoes' are the long tight-length ending on that star motif and the shorts (or whatever the male counterpart has) are separate? Because that makes it a bit less jarring since I believe there are a few options to replicate that silhouette with alternatives for males.

I don't mind the top, though, but I gotta say the default black-pink combination the male has is defnitely horrible because it looks like a mix-and match with something else. The default gradient should've had a very dark blue > Fuchsia scheme to blend better.

Easy fix, just use a fantasia then you can wear the other set.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

Slightly off question but... the DNC's 'shoes' are the long tight-length ending on that star motif and the shorts (or whatever the male counterpart has) are separate? Because that makes it a bit less jarring since I believe there are a few options to replicate that silhouette with alternatives for males.

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The DNC shoes are the thigh-length "baggy pants", yes. Which is why it's so weird that they felt the need to swap the shorts for longer pants when so little of them is visible.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

The DNC shoes are the thigh-length "baggy pants", yes. Which is why it's so weird that they felt the need to swap the shorts for longer pants when so little of them is visible.

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SCH had the same thing happen where they replaced new shorts with long pants only to hide them with the tall bootpants anyway... it just doesn't make sense.
Though in SCH case it looks like it might be a repeat of the RDM thing from before where it's still shorts but they put pants under them for some reason... before covering those with more boot. Male characters found dead in Tural due to heat stroke from wearing excessive layers.


Like we already have several hundred iterations of long pants so I don't know why they keep adding what is essentially the same pair of pants over and over again, esp when fem versions actually get new glamours instead.

I keep trying to think of what can even be done to get the AF's look for male characters. We only have a handful of shorts (most of which were added in Endwalker) and I think only two of them may be short enough for the SCH and DNC AF's high boots: the island sanctuary swim shorts which do not match the SCH vibe, or the load-bearing Expeditioner's Pantalettes which also don't have a very scholarly vibe but are probably the most viable alternative for both SCH and DNC even with the leather straps...

The tonberry shorts are closer in aesthetic for SCH but it looks like they might be too long to pull off the same look since the boots are so high they'd likely just tuck into them.

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Originally Posted by Sated

Like we already have several hundred iterations of long pants so I don't know why they keep adding what is essentially the same pair of pants over and over again, esp when fem versions actually get new glamours instead.

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Even with unisex glamours there's a dreadful degree of repetition of similar elements in the sets we get specifically for glamour. So many variants of plain belted pants, wrist-length gloves and business shoes.

I can understand the Dancer changes, since there is maybe a certain level of risque that they may not want to cross by giving the females the male look, and the males would look odd with the female look.

But why a male artist couldn't look well, more artsy with the crooked mid-drift I have no clue.

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Originally Posted by 1313

Easy fix, just use a fantasia then you can wear the other set.

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I shouldn't be forced to change my entire character just to wear the gear they have been using to advertise a class. If they are going to design different versions of the same gear, players should have the option to wear either version, not be forced into one version.

"Less options and less customization" is never going to be the winning argument for any MMO.

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Originally Posted by 1313

Easy fix, just use a fantasia then you can wear the other set.

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That's not an easy fix. Some of us are happy with who we are. In my case a Viera male. I already don't get hats. Now I'm being told to not be the gender I want if I want to wear designed artifact set we were shown at fanfest and during live letters? I have no issue showing my stomach, so why is that anyone else's business to determine I am required to wear a long black shirt OR change my gender with fantasias.. that cost money. These decisions are getting ridiculous. Seriously SE, stop gender locking and design gear that all races can wear. This has been a long time now. Years.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

I can understand the Dancer changes, since there is maybe a certain level of risque that they may not want to cross by giving the females the male look, and the males would look odd with the female look.

But why a male artist couldn't look well, more artsy with the crooked mid-drift I have no clue.

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As examples given before, just treat it like the "Dalmascan Drapped Top" it's open one males, and the gap between the Vests will be closed on the females.
(Assuming they don't do a Flames Elite Caster Set, and add a bra or chest wrap. though I feel such options go against the intended look of a somewhat open vest)

(If this game was a higher age rating, I'd be more than annoyed if that was a reason they didn't offer it. so many things offer a small "breast window" its alil ridiculous it exist in this <in NA> T rated game. which is old enough to not have issues with it.)

Not like everyone expects things to just be out and present, just covering. over the nonexistent nipple. (Which in the latest AF gear for BSM males, the chest wrap on them won't even cover the nonexistent male nipple. though with that one, the Female Variant will just stretch the wraps over the breast easily.)
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(Not disagreeing with you, just reiterating previous points how. Even if it was about potential Risqué, it would be so ridiculous if SE/CSIII did that. Since there are many solutions. One that offers the exact same feel/intent as the male version. the Other offers a duck tape level adjustment.)

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Originally Posted by GTK0HLK

As examples given before, just treat it like the "Dalmascan Drapped Top" it's open one males, and the gap between the Vests will be closed on the females.
(Assuming they don't do a Flames Elite Caster Set, and add a bra or chest wrap. though I feel such options go against the intended look of a somewhat open vest)

(If this game was a higher age rating, I'd be more than annoyed if that was a reason they didn't offer it. so many things offer a small "breast window" its alil ridiculous it exist in this <in NA> T rated game. which is old enough to not have issues with it.)

Not like everyone expects things to just be out and present, just covering. over the nonexistent nipple. (Which in the latest AF gear for BSM males, the chest wrap on them won't even cover the nonexistent male nipple. though with that one, the Female Variant will just stretch the wraps over the breast easily.)
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(Not disagreeing with you, just reiterating previous points how. Even if it was about potential Risqué, it would be so ridiculous if SE/CSIII did that. Since there are many solutions. One that offers the exact same feel/intent as the male version. the Other offers a duck tape level adjustment.)

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More than fair. Not here to disagree either, I just said I could understand what they might have been thinking in only allowing so much sultriness. But yes there are easy ways around it.

I personally like Dancers having a "Male" and "Female" variant as opposed to a standard uniform more martial classes may have. I can see most of the other classes having very standard attire by virtue of what the job is, but Dancer's attire is more clothing and what is alluring on one gender traditionally doesn't work on the other. A lot of partnered dance duos usually don't have the male and female partner wearing the same thing.

I'm more on the traditional side of gendered clothing though, so these decisions work for me. I can understand those who prefer other types of personal expression and overall support players being able to express themselves how they want.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

I can understand the Dancer changes, since there is maybe a certain level of risque that they may not want to cross by giving the females the male look, and the males would look odd with the female look.

But why a male artist couldn't look well, more artsy with the crooked mid-drift I have no clue.

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A more elegant solution for the DNC set would let males have the same strap that females have, but going diagonally across their chests instead. Also they could keep the female shorts too since it's easier to cover up with something else, given how bland the pants are for males.