Melee classes are sad in CC

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MonteCristo

Let me get this straight....you directly associate skill to rank under all circumstances even after being cognitively aware of ALL the rng that comes with having bad teammates/job spreads and current imbalance of multiple jobs?? Have you not seen all the complaints of players from reddit to these forums who play very well but still cant get out of certain ranked purgatories no matter how well they perform?? One of the main reasons i never broke out of gold was because i literally was one win away from rank up SEVERAL times only to fall back down over and over n after awhile that is extremely infuriating to deal with when you have taken the time to learn and perfect your job only to be dragged down by terrible teammates, uneven team comps, unbalanced jobs, and major flaws within reapers kit. I'd love to go on but you clearly arent listening and honestly ive given you way more attention than you deserve tbh.....so Ill tell you what g serpent unlock the job, play over 200 RANKED matches and i will personally gift you 1 million gil no strings attached just to prove my point because after that you will come to understand. Hell I'll even humble myself and in addition entertain an intelligent convo about your experience and we can fully discuss the job in depth at that point....⏳

---

You can try to point out this fact all you want but you'll get the same "BuT YoU ArE tHe ConStAnT" or "ItS DeSiGnEd To LeT yOu ClImB" nonsense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarevok_Thordin

You can try to point out this fact all you want but you'll get the same "BuT YoU ArE tHe ConStAnT" or "ItS DeSiGnEd To LeT yOu ClImB" nonsense.

---

Exactly!!!! I'd bet GOOD money anyone saying that is playing the meta jobs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MonteCristo

Exactly!!!! I'd bet GOOD money anyone saying that is playing the meta jobs.

---

More than likely just got carried or rolled lucky.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bloodthrone

K dude let's try and move on from this I have a few ideas (also provided by others) to improve Reaper:

1. Shorten the 20 sec cooldowns to 15 sec

2. Insta cast on Communio plus a buff from 16,000 to 20,000

3. 5-6 sec CC Immunity on LB

4. Gallows and Gibbet provide Immortal Sacrifice and possibly the 1,2,3 but that's up for debate

5. 45sec from 60sec cooldown on Plentiful Harvest


I think these are reasonable what do you think?

---

Id LOVE all of this but we would never get all of it. Not gonna lie....if they let us keep immortal sacrifice stacks on death that alone would make me shut up

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MonteCristo

Ill tell you what g serpent unlock the job, play over 200 RANKED matches and i will personally gift you 1 million gil no strings attached just to prove my point because after that you will come to understand. Hell I'll even humble myself and in addition entertain an intelligent convo about your experience and we can fully discuss the job in depth at that point....⏳

---

I don't think this would do you any good considering this is the same person who thinks purify and the stunning in this PvP isn't broken...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gserpent

CC isn't nearly as big of an issue as you're making it out to be. Purify does what it's supposed to do.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KhudusQestir

I don't think this would do you any good considering this is the same person who thinks purify and the stunning in this PvP isn't broken...

---

I legit didn't know he said this and was serious......thats enough to make me not respond to him any further....wow

Reapers and Bards are underperforming way to much to be allowed into CC. If you aren't performing as well as a Monk / Sam for melee or as a Mechanist / RDM as range than ya bringing the team down. Reaper is the only melee class thats sad in this game everyone else is doing just fine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MonteCristo

Id LOVE all of this but we would never get all of it. Not gonna lie....if they let us keep immortal sacrifice stacks on death that alone would make me shut up

---

Fair enough lol

so many crazy people here trying to blame everyone else for their pvp problems speaking for myself i will spend my time in savage where it is safe.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by george357

so many crazy people here trying to blame everyone else for their pvp problems speaking for myself i will spend my time in savage where it is safe.

---

Did g serpent send u?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MonteCristo

Did g serpent send u?

---

There'll be people who sympathize nothing we can do about it just ignore him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MonteCristo

Let me get this straight....you directly associate skill to rank under all circumstances even after being cognitively aware of ALL the rng that comes with having bad teammates/job spreads and current imbalance of multiple jobs?? Have you not seen all the complaints of players from reddit to these forums who play very well but still cant get out of certain ranked purgatories no matter how well they perform?? One of the main reasons i never broke out of gold was because i literally was one win away from rank up SEVERAL times only to fall back down over and over n after awhile that is extremely infuriating to deal with when you have taken the time to learn and perfect your job only to be dragged down by terrible teammates, uneven team comps, unbalanced jobs, and major flaws within reapers kit. I'd love to go on but you clearly arent listening and honestly ive given you way more attention than you deserve tbh.....so Ill tell you what g serpent unlock the job, play over 200 RANKED matches and i will personally gift you 1 million gil no strings attached just to prove my point because after that you will come to understand. Hell I'll even humble myself and in addition entertain an intelligent convo about your experience and we can fully discuss the job in depth at that point....⏳

---

Gil is meaningless. I have 4 subs that print it for me passively. Why would I want it? And we both know that even if I played an entire season of Reaper, if I came here and maintained what I've been saying from the start, you'd generate some new excuse to discredit my opinion because... guess what? To admit I'm right is admitting that you aren't anywhere *near* as good as you think you are. And people on this forum are incapable of doing that - hence all the people claiming balance issues, design issues, or whatever other thing they can gin up to do anything but have to admit their own inadequacies.

And yeah, Credit Rating *is* MM. It's a pretty garbage version of it, but it does function as it its intended function. The higher your rating goes, the more likely you're going to see fellow high-rated players in your games, and *most* of those players will at least be competent at the game, and some will even be good at it. Near as we can tell, the system tries to balance teams by total Credit Rating, and if there are multiple high-rating players queuing at the same time, it's very likely that they'll end up on different teams (going to be hard to put two 5000+ players on the same team and still have both teams even, after all.)

Of course, we can go the other way - if credit means nothing, then why aren't you top 100? After all, even I could do it, and I didn't have to play that many games. So which excuse do you find more convenient?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gserpent

Gil is meaningless. I have 4 subs that print it for me passively. Why would I want it? And we both know that even if I played an entire season of Reaper, if I came here and maintained what I've been saying from the start, you'd generate some new excuse to discredit my opinion because... guess what? To admit I'm right is admitting that you aren't anywhere *near* as good as you think you are. And people on this forum are incapable of doing that - hence all the people claiming balance issues, design issues, or whatever other thing they can gin up to do anything but have to admit their own inadequacies.

And yeah, Credit Rating *is* MM. It's a pretty garbage version of it, but it does function as it its intended function. The higher your rating goes, the more likely you're going to see fellow high-rated players in your games, and *most* of those players will at least be competent at the game, and some will even be good at it. Near as we can tell, the system tries to balance teams by total Credit Rating, and if there are multiple high-rating players queuing at the same time, it's very likely that they'll end up on different teams (going to be hard to put two 5000+ players on the same team and still have both teams even, after all.)

Of course, we can go the other way - if credit means nothing, then why aren't you top 100? After all, even I could do it, and I didn't have to play that many games. So which excuse do you find more convenient?

---

So, what you're saying is you are a wuss who can talk the talk but won't walk the walk......get the hell out of here dude you are just a wrench.

Like I said try to other datacenter and see how long you hold up as a rpr, be quit surprise how fast they get own as melee. And purify need a rework if you do Frontline its not enough to stop all the cc repeatedly being chain on 1 person or in crystal rank..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bloodthrone

So, what you're saying is you are a wuss who can talk the talk but won't walk the walk......get the hell out of here dude you are just a wrench.

---

It's fine. He doesn't know what he's talking about but he's going to add RPR to his playlist and he'll learn how wrong he is.

....Maybe

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gserpent

I'll probably add in RPR since the playstyle will probably suit me.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KhudusQestir

It's fine. He doesn't know what he's talking about but he's going to add RPR to his playlist and he'll learn how wrong he is.

....Maybe

---

I wouldn't hold my breath, he would have day's ago and still hasn't but what ever I don't care what he says anymore his opinion really doesn't matter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bloodthrone

So, what you're saying is you are a wuss who can talk the talk but won't walk the walk......get the hell out of here dude you are just a wrench.

---

Dude, I could grind RPR to 90 through dungeons in a few days and what would it prove? We have no way of proving how many games of CC a given character has played on any given class because SE doesn't like stats (apparently), so it's all just hearsay and assumptions. I have PLD at 90 - surely that means I must play a lot of games as PLD! Except I have played exactly two games of CC on PLD, and neither of them were on ranked. So how would I "prove" I know or don't know PLD, other than the actual arguments and information I present?

And like I said - I already know the class, I know how it plays, I know its strengths and weaknesses, and I know how to play it. PvP in this game is not complicated. Classes literally have 6 or sometimes 7 buttons unique to them, plus a few more shared buttons. There aren't many moving parts. It's not terribly difficult to understand how to play with, as, and against a class if you understand the game as a whole. A Terran player doesn't need to play Protoss in order to understand the qualities unique to that race and how they fit into PvT, and Starcraft is a *far* more complicated game than Crystalline Conflict is. Or you don't need to play Guile in order to understand how Guile works and how to fight him effectively as Zangief, or whatever. Pick a game, dude.

Are you seriously telling me that if I came in here with 150 more games played, a level 90 Reaper, and my stance had not changed, you'd actually be willing to admit you were wrong, that you aren't an expert and that you have a lot to learn? You and I both know that's a load of nonsense - so why are you so adamant about pretending otherwise?

You and the other clowns are just here to whine and cry and complain so that you can do anything possible to avoid having to admit that you suck at the game and that your failures are your own, not the game's. If you and the others spent half as much time analyzing your play and trying to actually understand the game as you spend crying here and having pity parties, you'd be a lot better at the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gserpent

Dude, I could grind RPR to 90 through dungeons in a few days and what would it prove? We have no way of proving how many games of CC a given character has played on any given class because SE doesn't like stats (apparently), so it's all just hearsay and assumptions. I have PLD at 90 - surely that means I must play a lot of games as PLD! Except I have played exactly two games of CC on PLD, and neither of them were on ranked. So how would I "prove" I know or don't know PLD, other than the actual arguments and information I present?

And like I said - I already know the class, I know how it plays, I know its strengths and weaknesses, and I know how to play it. PvP in this game is not complicated. Classes literally have 6 or sometimes 7 buttons unique to them, plus a few more shared buttons. There aren't many moving parts. It's not terribly difficult to understand how to play with, as, and against a class if you understand the game as a whole. A Terran player doesn't need to play Protoss in order to understand the qualities unique to that race and how they fit into PvT, and Starcraft is a *far* more complicated game than Crystalline Conflict is. Or you don't need to play Guile in order to understand how Guile works and how to fight him effectively as Zangief, or whatever. Pick a game, dude.

Are you seriously telling me that if I came in here with 150 more games played, a level 90 Reaper, and my stance had not changed, you'd actually be willing to admit you were wrong, that you aren't an expert and that you have a lot to learn? You and I both know that's a load of nonsense - so why are you so adamant about pretending otherwise?

You and the other clowns are just here to whine and cry and complain so that you can do anything possible to avoid having to admit that you suck at the game and that your failures are your own, not the game's. If you and the others spent half as much time analyzing your play and trying to actually understand the game as you spend crying here and having pity parties, you'd be a lot better at the game.

---

G Serpent.....If you actually played the job extensively the climate of this ENTIRE conversation would be different...we would actually consider what you have to say BUT there is something you lack...credibility. This isnt a complicated conversation or complicated mode by any means we aren't dumb. I don't know what u main but imagine it underperforming severely then someone who hasn't played it once trying to tell u that YOU suck and the job plays just fine...im sorry but u are treading the line of troll at this point and strangely enough i think u might actually be serious and if u are there are bigger issues at hand...respectfully

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gserpent

And yeah, Credit Rating *is* MM. It's a pretty garbage version of it, but it does function as it its intended function. The higher your rating goes, the more likely you're going to see fellow high-rated players in your games, and *most* of those players will at least be competent at the game, and some will even be good at it.

---

lol what? Even with me only really playing pvp once or twice a week, I consistently ran into top 50 players who had like 5k credits while I was sitting at 1k. MM doesn't exist in CC outside of star ranges and then crystal is just a free for all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MonteCristo

G Serpent.....If you actually played the job extensively the climate of this ENTIRE conversation would be different...we would actually consider what you have to say BUT there is something you lack...credibility. This isnt a complicated conversation or complicated mode by any means we aren't dumb. I don't know what u main but imagine it underperforming severely then someone who hasn't played it once trying to tell u that YOU suck and the job plays just fine...im sorry but u are treading the line of troll at this point and strangely enough i think u might actually be serious and if u are there are bigger issues at hand...respectfully

---

Except I'm not wrong, dude. That's the entire problem here. I am telling you how RPR works at high skill, how it is a very strong and very effective class at high skill that's been seeing a sharp increase in pick rates on Crystal because of this (second only to MNK, and even then not by much - I literally see MNK and RPR more than NIN now), and you're refusing to accept it because it doesn't jive with your personal experience and because you think I need to have played some arbitrary number of games as RPR to understand how RPR works and plays.

I think part of the issue is that RPR is a playmaker. If you have a team that doesn't focus targets, doesn't switch targets, and is basically off licking windows instead of paying attention... yeah, RPR's gonna feel bad. But those are PEBKAC issues, not issues with the class itself. Some classes are simply better than others at compensating for or carrying bad teammates - and RPR ain't one of them. But that doesn't mean the class is weak, or that it needs much of anything in the way of fixes or buffs, because that would more than likely make them overpowered in high skill games where your teammates *are* executing on the openings you're creating, are focusing properly, etc.

I don't know what rating you've been playing at. But by time you're reaching upper 50 levels of rating, you should start seeing skilled players more often and you'll notice a marked increase in RPR's effectiveness. It's the same with DNC, SCH, and pretty much any other class that operates on setting things up for their teammates to take advantage of.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gserpent

Except I'm not wrong, dude. That's the entire problem here. I am telling you how RPR works at high skill, how it is a very strong and very effective class at high skill that's been seeing a sharp increase in pick rates on Crystal because of this (second only to MNK, and even then not by much - I literally see MNK and RPR more than NIN now), and you're refusing to accept it because it doesn't jive with your personal experience and because you think I need to have played some arbitrary number of games as RPR to understand how RPR works and plays.

I think part of the issue is that RPR is a playmaker. If you have a team that doesn't focus targets, doesn't switch targets, and is basically off licking windows instead of paying attention... yeah, RPR's gonna feel bad. But those are PEBKAC issues, not issues with the class itself. Some classes are simply better than others at compensating for or carrying bad teammates - and RPR ain't one of them. But that doesn't mean the class is weak, or that it needs much of anything in the way of fixes or buffs, because that would more than likely make them overpowered in high skill games where your teammates *are* executing on the openings you're creating, are focusing properly, etc.

I don't know what rating you've been playing at. But by time you're reaching upper 50 levels of rating, you should start seeing skilled players more often and you'll notice a marked increase in RPR's effectiveness. It's the same with DNC, SCH, and pretty much any other class that operates on setting things up for their teammates to take advantage of.

---

Man the level of play on crystal must be really trash lol.

We are going to tell you this again Gserpent PLAY THE DAMN CLASS OR SHUT THE HELL UP!!!!! As I told you before "KNOWLEDGE is NOTHING without EXPERIENCE" everything looks good on paper or on a video until it's put into practice, once you've put it into practice then you will understand. So, you can claim you are right until the sky falls but you will still be insanely unreliable and lack all credibility on the matter.

Sadly the very small exclusive group of top 100 players that include reapers aren't reading this thread. If there are ANY top 100 reapers that see this thread please respond! We lowly reapers suck and don't play the job correct at all so we need further validation for consideration

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bloodthrone

We are going to tell you this again Gserpent PLAY THE DAMN CLASS OR SHUT THE HELL UP!!!!! As I told you before "KNOWLEDGE is NOTHING without EXPERIENCE" everything looks good on paper or on a video until it's put into practice, once you've put it into practice then you will understand. So, you can claim you are right until the sky falls but you will still be insanely unreliable and lack all credibility on the matter.

---

I second this...starting to regret how much energy i wasted on his antics. Feel like i fell for the obvious bait smh

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MonteCristo

I second this...starting to regret how much energy i wasted on his antics. Feel like i fell for the obvious bait smh

---

Don't worry you're alone my friend.

Just ignore that guy, he attempts to derail any pvp discussion with ItS A SkiLL IsSuE and cannot be taken in good faith considering he continues to lecture people on a job he doesnt even play. Anyone would think the dude's on SE PR payroll.

Reaper is fine tbh same with dragoon.
Reaper LB is extremely underrated in lower brackets, same goes for dancers.

Nin/Mnk are not, they are too strong for how their lb works and they generate it too quickly.
Same goes for whm lb, while sage is suffering with prolly the longest LB charge time in the entire game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MrSigy

Reaper is fine tbh same with dragoon.
Reaper LB is extremely underrated in lower brackets, same goes for dancers.

Nin/Mnk are not, they are too strong for how their lb works and they generate it too quickly.
Same goes for whm lb, while sage is suffering with prolly the longest LB charge time in the entire game.

---

MNK LB is obnoxious but they are the last viable melee we have. As a NIN you'll never get your LB off in ranked because some WHM or PLD will cuck you and outside of the LB pressure, every time you stealth you are also easy to guard against. Outside of those two windows there's no melee pressure from a NIN unlike MNK and DRG that always bring the heat. You already see more MNKs and soon you'll see more DRGs than NINs in due time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lustre

Just ignore that guy, he attempts to derail any pvp discussion with ItS A SkiLL IsSuE and cannot be taken in good faith considering he continues to lecture people on a job he doesnt even play. Anyone would think the dude's on SE PR payroll.

---

Im assuming youve played reaper?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MrSigy

Reaper is fine tbh same with dragoon.
Reaper LB is extremely underrated in lower brackets, same goes for dancers.

Nin/Mnk are not, they are too strong for how their lb works and they generate it too quickly.
Same goes for whm lb, while sage is suffering with prolly the longest LB charge time in the entire game.

---

Sorry we disagree RPR has the slowest burst timing and lowest consistent dps rate on top of that the LB is vulnerable to CC all the other classes aren't, LB is good on cluch and controlling the flow of battle though so I agree there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ransu

Man the level of play on crystal must be really trash lol.

---

Who knows? I think we can probably assume JP DCs are better than everyone else given that their bottom 100 rating tends to be a *lot* higher than everyone else's (wasn't Mana's like 5500 or something?), but I doubt there's a lot of difference between the different NA and EU DCs. If alts weren't so annoying to create and manage, I'd probably be interested in making a Primal and Aether alt just to see. But it's just way too much time investment for me to be interested in.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bureda

MNK LB is obnoxious but they are the last viable melee we have. As a NIN you'll never get your LB off in ranked because some WHM or PLD will cuck you and outside of the LB pressure, every time you stealth you are also easy to guard against. Outside of those two windows there's no melee pressure from a NIN unlike MNK and DRG that always bring the heat. You already see more MNKs and soon you'll see more DRGs than NINs in due time.

---

NIN has a different role than MNK, DRG, etc. They're opportunists and sweepers. They're not rush-down like MNK or DRG, and they aren't brawlers like RPR and MNK. The most effective way to play NIN is to just be a massive pain in the ass for the enemy team. They're really good at scooping up medpacks behind enemy lines so the enemy can't use them, flinging darts to delay elixir use, and picking off players with low HP/low MP with Assassinate+Hyosho/Raiju burst. NIN LB is kind of just "there." It's great for punishing people that try to greed or think Guard will save them, but it's not really necessary and it's very rare you'll get to chain it unless the enemy team made a huge error (like getting dunked on by a DRG and then getting AOE CC'd by a RPR, WAR, WHM, etc or something.)

If you're worried about getting poly'd out of an LB or other attack... don't use it until you've forced out the poly? It's not rocket science. Though, honestly, forcing out a poly on a "useless" LB like NIN instead of an important one like DRG or preventing them from using it to kill or peel is probably a net gain for your team, anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gserpent

NIN has a different role than MNK, DRG, etc. They're opportunists and sweepers. They're not rush-down like MNK or DRG, and they aren't brawlers like RPR and MNK. The most effective way to play NIN is to just be a massive pain in the ass for the enemy team. They're really good at scooping up medpacks behind enemy lines so the enemy can't use them, flinging darts to delay elixir use, and picking off players with low HP/low MP with Assassinate+Hyosho/Raiju burst. NIN LB is kind of just "there." It's great for punishing people that try to greed or think Guard will save them, but it's not really necessary and it's very rare you'll get to chain it unless the enemy team made a huge error (like getting dunked on by a DRG and then getting AOE CC'd by a RPR, WAR, WHM, etc or something.)

If you're worried about getting poly'd out of an LB or other attack... don't use it until you've forced out the poly? It's not rocket science. Though, honestly, forcing out a poly on a "useless" LB like NIN instead of an important one like DRG or preventing them from using it to kill or peel is probably a net gain for your team, anyway.

---

What the fuck are you talking about? Do you even play this game?

But what if it is a skill issue? RPR and DNC seems to be the biggest hit or miss jobs for me when I get matched with them on PVP, 90% of the time, it's a miss. I played both for several weeks and I'm playing to their strengths pretty well. The thing is, you can just read the tool tips for the job to understand how it's supposed to work, and after playing it myself and feeling out the relationship it has with other jobs in the ally and enemy team, I can say Gserpent is accurate in describing how it's assumed to work with what you can derive from tooltips.

The LB is very good. Bind, potency, fear, range cast. Barrier that gives HoT which can outheal other healers if used right. It's got so many tools, it's obvious it has a high skill ceiling to play properly. Raw damage isn't everything. Getting CCed is something you're supposed to work around, sometimes you're not supposed to get everything out of a RPR LB. It's different from the other melee, but people are determined to play it like one just because it has a red icon. Like SGE isn't really a healer. You're supposed to have taken the most damage over the match, because you're planning retreats, recouping, and teleporting into battle like a tank. You're supposed to have done insane amounts of healing by using your barrier properly.

Of course all this on top of having a team that works with you.

So if you need some credibility for Gserpent's opinion. Here it is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gserpent

NIN has a different role than MNK, DRG, etc. They're opportunists and sweepers. They're not rush-down like MNK or DRG, and they aren't brawlers like RPR and MNK. The most effective way to play NIN is to just be a massive pain in the ass for the enemy team. They're really good at scooping up medpacks behind enemy lines so the enemy can't use them, flinging darts to delay elixir use, and picking off players with low HP/low MP with Assassinate+Hyosho/Raiju burst. NIN LB is kind of just "there." It's great for punishing people that try to greed or think Guard will save them, but it's not really necessary and it's very rare you'll get to chain it unless the enemy team made a huge error (like getting dunked on by a DRG and then getting AOE CC'd by a RPR, WAR, WHM, etc or something.)

If you're worried about getting poly'd out of an LB or other attack... don't use it until you've forced out the poly? It's not rocket science. Though, honestly, forcing out a poly on a "useless" LB like NIN instead of an important one like DRG or preventing them from using it to kill or peel is probably a net gain for your team, anyway.

---

I believe the mistake that's being made here is that if you describe a job being played at a different tier/meta and applying all the layers and mind games that take place in one level of play as opposed to another, it's going to sound like a completely different job/game. People are going to have difficulty understanding the different required playstyles. Chess vs Rock'em Sock'em robots.

I'm just gonna post this here. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hanri

As people have recommended in other threads. When you see a gserpent post, just skip it as of there was no post yet

---

@shinychariot Thank you for playing the job and actually coming into the conversation with tact and credibility. Now to your points.

1) Our LB on paper does sound likes its "holyshwtf" BUT here is the unfortunate and very accurate reality...the MOMENT i hit gold on rpr...enemy teams cced me to PIECES nearly every time i used my LB. They knew exactly how it worked and they knew exactly how to counter it every time. The moment we activate lb we starting glowing and become a very obvious target. Then silence/stun/sleep to death or until it runs out because the timer is much lower than in pve. Hell u can even be mid cast on communio and it doesnt go off because the timer goes out. It ends up wasted alot of the time against any enemies with half a brain to be brutally honest.

2) crest....why tf was a dps increase tied to a defensive skill. It makes me choose between activating it for dps rather than actually using it to protect myself majority of the time which feels extremely counter intuitive. It feels lazy by design, id like to have to option to protect myself or plan my already limited dps bursts without having to give up one over the other since its all baked into one skill.

3) This one is personal....quote--"It's different from the other melee, but people are determined to play it like one just because it has a red icon / You're supposed to have taken the most damage over the match, because you're planning retreats, recouping, and teleporting into battle like a tank."

Listen...i have been playing/supporting this game since 1.0 beta and i had to wait YEARS to see the job i finally wanted to play which was a darkness based dps. I had to endure paladin warrior etc until finally dark knight was announced. Then guess what? They made it a tank and i was forced yet again to play a non dps for several more years until reaper was finally released as the dps i was praying dark knight to be. I say all that to say this....people dont care about what the devs intend a job to play like. We choose our jobs based on how much we love the design and what role it is. I waited years to play a darkness based dps and after drk was a major disappointment imagine being told to play reaper as a half assed/half baked tank or ultimately suffer being written off as "unskilled" or trash...... Ironic huh?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bureda

What the fuck are you talking about? Do you even play this game?

---

How NIN works in CC.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MonteCristo

@shinychariot Thank you for playing the job and actually coming into the conversation with tact and credibility. Now to your points.

1) Our LB on paper does sound likes its "holyshwtf" BUT here is the unfortunate and very accurate reality...the MOMENT i hit gold on rpr...enemy teams cced me to PIECES nearly every time i used my LB. They knew exactly how it worked and they knew exactly how to counter it every time. The moment we activate lb we starting glowing and become a very obvious target. Then silence/stun/sleep to death or until it runs out because the timer is much lower than in pve. Hell u can even be mid cast on communio and it doesnt go off because the timer goes out. It ends up wasted alot of the time against any enemies with half a brain to be brutally honest.

---

Losing an ability because you activated a cooldown too early or didn't manage your GCDs properly isn't something exclusive to RPR or even PvP. How many PLDs you see losing the second buffed Goring Blade because they popped FoF too early? You know the cast time for Communio and you know the buff duration for the Lemurum stacks... so unless you're CC'd during the last second or two (in which case the enemy was just playing intelligently and denying you your highest burst damage ability), losing a Communio cast is just you making a mistake. It happens, people make mistakes. It's not something that needs to be changed, though. PLD can lose their blades combo from LB, too. CC'ing/kiting MNK so that their combo ends before they can dump their 15k AOE is also a common thing. It's intentional design.

Okay, so you get CC'd after you LB - sucks to be you, right? But that's CC that isn't going on your teammates, and RPR isn't an ideal focus target because of the escape teleport and Crest. You can't look at things like it's a 1v5 or a 1v1 or something - it's a 5v5 game, and if you can force the enemy team to use their resources less efficiently than you are using yours, your team is coming out ahead. Remember that even if you get nothing but a single Communio out of your LB buff, you still had the 2 sec CC and guard break at the beginning of everything.

Quote:

---

2) crest....why tf was a dps increase tied to a defensive skill. It makes me choose between activating it for dps rather than actually using it to protect myself majority of the time which feels extremely counter intuitive. It feels lazy by design, id like to have to option to protect myself or plan my already limited dps bursts without having to give up one over the other since its all baked into one skill.

---

Generally speaking, you are going to be using the DPS amp at the same time you're setting up Death Warrant. This requires you to get several GCDs off on the target in sequence, which tends to mean you'll be in danger during this time. If they attack you, Crest pops and gives your team a 12k heal. If they ignore you to avoid popping the shield, you're getting all the Death Warrant stacking you want. You just gotta use it at the right time and place. Both skills have the same 20 sec cooldown, so it's pretty rare that you won't be using them together.

Quote:

---

3) This one is personal....quote--"It's different from the other melee, but people are determined to play it like one just because it has a red icon / You're supposed to have taken the most damage over the match, because you're planning retreats, recouping, and teleporting into battle like a tank."

Listen...i have been playing/supporting this game since 1.0 beta and i had to wait YEARS to see the job i finally wanted to play which was a darkness based dps. I had to endure paladin warrior etc until finally dark knight was announced. Then guess what? They made it a tank and i was forced yet again to play a non dps for several more years until reaper was finally released as the dps i was praying dark knight to be. I say all that to say this....people dont care about what the devs intend a job to play like. We choose our jobs based on how much we love the design and what role it is. I waited years to play a darkness based dps and after drk was a major disappointment imagine being told to play reaper as a half assed/half baked tank or ultimately suffer being written off as "unskilled" or trash...... Ironic huh?

---

That's not ironic. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is. If you don't want to play a tank, then RPR isn't the class you want to play. As I and others have suggested repeatedly, if you want to play a melee DPS, your best bet is going to be a MNK if you want to be a brawler, or NIN if you want flexibility and mobility. Bitching that RPR doesn't do enough DPS or whatever, when it's not designed as a DPS, is just foolishness.

@MonteCristo
I think before we start any discussion, it's important we accept that what we want a job to be and how the job is now as the devs intended it are different things. And also just because we want a job to be a certain way, the job not being so is different from it being objectively unusable.

The key to being better at the job is to adapt, use the tools you're given, personal biases aside. People have to accept that first, and then be able to differentiate "Job is bad" with "Job is bad because it's not what I want"

RPR is some mutant hybrid that plays Tank with a ranged until they become DPS/Debuffer with two total ranged. You have to accept that. Just because you don't, doesn't mean the job is broken.