What has gotten into the community these days?

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Yeah, like the OP sticking tags like "whining" on threads she dislikes.

Please, try to be kind to each other.

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When you get called out:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/93/4c...ab01691071.gif

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Originally Posted by StriderShinryu

I don't have much experience with other places where FF14 is discussed but there's no question that the general tenor on these forums is overly negative, and I can't help but feel it's because any topic that actually shows positivity is either scrolled off the front page by repetitive "The Game Sucks" topics or is bombarded by the usual crowd of naysayers who just can't seem to stand anyone having positive feelings about the game.

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That could be because there is nothing to actually discuss in a praise thread. While even in a negative thread, you can have back and forths.

I do not believe this forum is actually that negative. I'd say a most of the people here are quite positive about the game really. Even the supposed trolls like the game. Sure, there might be criticism here and there, but it's for good reason. Many don't want to see the game go the way of WoW. This game has a lot of potential.

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Originally Posted by Kyu-Momo

The forums these days.... Hm.... I almost miss the troll post spam.... almost.

Let's see....

1) Taking a game so seriously that you insult other people over it
2) Being condescending, insulting, and/or overly aggressive to people who do not share your opinion or dare to be positive/negative

????

Yikes. maybe the stress has gotten to people with all that's going on in the world, which, yeah understandable, but jiminy Christmas, everyone here needs to take a step back and relax.

Housing, glamour, job balancing, etc etc needs work, yes, but that doesn't excuse spewing vitriol at each other.
The people on this forum are not your enemies, they are fellow human beings who want to play this game and have fun, just like you do.

Please, try to be kind to each other.

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any online forum can have members that are very toxic and bitter. i dont support it but something about being anonymous on the internet makes people act the worst.

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Originally Posted by Darthgummibear

As a WoW veteran myself I have seen a lot of design choices over the past several months indicative of a direction that will take the game down the exact same disastrous path. I'll be damned if I'm gonna just stand here and not fight it every step of the way.

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I may or may not disagree with you on this, but I suspect we disagree because many have been claiming that WoW killed their game by simplifying it even though evidence objectively shows the exact opposite: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...player/1229062

Granted, I'm speaking from anecdotal personal experiences, but yesterday I chained 15 level 70 dungeons to complete my ShB relic grind. Early in the day, I had very little experience with those dungeons, and I died repeatedly, often getting carried by one or two people who knew what they were doing. By the end of the day, I was finishing off the bosses while the healer and the other DPS floor tanked. I was even collecting triple comms as a DPS, which rarely ever happens. To me, that indicates a well-designed game. I felt rewarded for my efforts, both in terms of progression as well as socially. WoW has the opposite design. It penalizes you for going into fights without any prior experience, and it also penalizes you for going into fights with others who have no prior experience. There is no motivation to get better because all you have to look forward to is more penalization. In my opinion, FFXIV's direction is the exact opposite of where WoW is. I find it ironic that so many players claim that FFXIV is going the way of WoW by simplifying their game when it's the exact opposite. They're avoiding WoW's pitfalls when they cut down on button bloat.

The more people play a game the more chance there is, that it will bring in some arguments. Unfortunately, some people do not know the difference between an argument and self validating their opinion.

Arguments are actually GOOD. Sharing opinions can result in very good things.

I consider having the ability to argue in a good way as a critical social skill. Persuasion is really hard to master.

However, there are some situations where you should just notice that someone is not actually arguing but self validating.

Some people think the only truth is theirs and anyone else speaking differently are just not right. A worse case is when these people WANT you to say that they are right, regardless the thousands of times you tried to support your arguments with backup information.

To me this shows two things:
They are not confident enough to believe their own truth without other people's validation
They just not socially skilled or well versed enough to understand how arguments and sharing of opinions work.

You just need to realize that talking to these type of people is meaningless. Whatever you say they will only take the part out of it that they can twist for their truth. Not even stopping for a moment to think "hey this may be something I should consider"...

This to me has nothing to do with FF now or what. This is just people being people. Some people are like that, some FF players are like that. It always have been like this, just before you had less people and statistically less chance to realize this.

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

To me, that indicates a well-designed game. I felt rewarded for my efforts, both in terms of progression as well as socially. WoW has the opposite design. It penalizes you for going into fights without any prior experience, and it also penalizes you for going into fights with others who have no prior experience. There is no motivation to get better because all you have to look forward to is more penalization. In my opinion, FFXIV's direction is the exact opposite of where WoW is. I find it ironic that so many players claim that FFXIV is going the way of WoW by simplifying their game when it's the exact opposite. They're avoiding WoW's pitfalls when they cut down on button bloat.

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I find it interesting you have White Mage as your main job on here and you also say that XIV "indicates a well designed game that rewards you for efforts" when the healer role is exactly the opposite. You're penalized for being good at it and you're penalized for playing with others who are good. Your "reward for your effort" on healer is being able to hit Glare/Broil/etc more. That's not fun, that's not well-designed, that's actually the exact opposite - there's no motivation to get better because all you have to look forward to is more monotonous one button spam. Are you only referring DPS in the frame of XIV being a "well-designed game" or are you saying this about all of the roles?

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Originally Posted by Nizzi

I find it interesting you have White Mage as your main job on here and you also say that XIV "indicates a well designed game that rewards you for efforts" when the healer role is exactly the opposite.

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Maybe we see penalization differently, and maybe we run different types of content. As I've said in other threads, if you want an engaging experience as a healer, you need to run with a bunch of random players who constantly stand in stuff and collect vuln stacks. If solo queuing the roulette is your primary activity, like mine is, then healing is rewarding. If you know the details of the fight, you can time your casts to go off right when the damage hits, and then players won't know how hard they've been hit. To me, that's a great feeling. If you don't know the details, you're constantly scrambling to keep up with the heals. Players claim that the job is boring, but I don't see it that way. If you're always running with the best of the best in a static, then of course healing is going to be boring. That's not indicative of a poorly designed game. To me, it's indicative of a personal choice to heal in easy mode.

As for spamming Glare, don't forget that you also have to maintain your Aero debuff while also getting rid of excess lillies to enable your Afflatus Misery casts. If spamming a skill and tracking two different timers, all while keeping your party alive isn't doing it for you, I honestly can't understand what it'll take to make you happy.

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

Maybe we see penalization differently, and maybe we run different types of content. As I've said in other threads, if you want an engaging experience as a healer, you need to run with a bunch of random players who constantly stand in stuff and collect vuln stacks.

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This is bad design. You shouldn't need to rely on random players not being good or messing up for something to be engaging. DPS and Tanks do not require the party to enable them to have fun. You can play a DPS and Tank through the new Duty Support in ARR, Trusts in ShB and EW and have fun as a completely solo experience, and then you can have fun in multiplayer content with other players. What's the justification for healers being locked out of experiencing the game solo if the "fun of healing" is only hoping to get unreliable players?

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If solo queuing the roulette is your primary activity, like mine is, then healing is rewarding. If you know the details of the fight, you can time your casts to go off right when the damage hits, and then players won't know how hard they've been hit. To me, that's a great feeling. If you don't know the details, you're constantly scrambling to keep up with the heals.

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Why is healing the only role that requires these increasingly complex hoops to jump through for how to have fun on it? If you're having to come up with goals for yourself like "timing my heals so the players can see their health bars go down", that is entirely indicative of a poorly designed role. There's no difference between healing someone as soon as a boss finishes their cast and 15 seconds after. If you're having to scramble to keep up with healing in casual content, this is entirely what I'm talking about. No offense, but that's indicative of a skill issue from the healer and part of my point. As you get better at the healing role, you heal less and your reward is more Glare/Broil/etc spam. That is entirely indicative of a poorly designed game.

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If you're always running with the best of the best in a static, then of course healing is going to be boring. That's not indicative of a poorly designed game. To me, it's indicative of a personal choice to heal in easy mode.

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I don't do Savage anymore because spamming Glare/Broil/etc is boring, even in Savage. I also only have time for casual content. I don't understand where this idea comes from that if you're pointing out how awful this role is, you're "healing in easy mode" and "running with the best of the best in a static" when I'm not. I only do casual content. I play with the aforementioned chickens running around with their heads cutoff. It is a punishment to be good at healing, and that is awful design.

Ah. I didn't realize I stumbled onto Twitter.

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

In my opinion, FFXIV's direction is the exact opposite of where WoW is. I find it ironic that so many players claim that FFXIV is going the way of WoW by simplifying their game when it's the exact opposite. They're avoiding WoW's pitfalls when they cut down on button bloat.

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WoW did reduce button bloat which is why in MoP many clases felt similar which is what we are dealing with in FF now. The problem isn't about reducing button bloat in FFXIV, it's about how they solve it. There are plenty of skills that could be combos off another as x skill is required to perform y skill. Some skills that shouldn't be that way such as minuet turning into pitch perfect. It's more of a matter that I don't believe anyone actually plays many of these classes they design as they tend to make counter intuitive decisions at times. FFXIV's problem, is exactly the same as WoW's at this point, and it lies with a dev team that does not want to listen to the player base and develop the game around 1 type of player. In WoW's case it was the mythic raiders, in FF's case it seems to be the RPers. Which it actually funny cause most people claim that the devs only listen to the JP community, but the JP community is way more hardcore in raiding. NA's highest completion rate server for savage matches JP's lowest completion rate in savage. While NA has about 2 data centers that are just RP data centers. So it is very clear the devs are listening, but to a certain player base group.

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

As for spamming Glare, don't forget that you also have to maintain your Aero debuff while also getting rid of excess lillies to enable your Afflatus Misery casts. If spamming a skill and tracking two different timers, all while keeping your party alive isn't doing it for you, I honestly can't understand what it'll take to make you happy.

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Hasn't been doing it for WHM since lillies were introduced.

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Originally Posted by Raige

Ah. I didn't realize I stumbled onto Twitter.

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Yeah, you are.
The LGBT MegaYikes topic is not too from your left either.
Enjoy the stay, eat some popcorn.
https://i.gifer.com/5gp.gif

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Originally Posted by Jybril

Yeah, you are.
The LGBT MegaYikes topic is not too from your left either.
Enjoy the stay, eat some popcorn.
https://i.gifer.com/5gp.gif

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MegaYikes™? Is that what happens when Twitter and Tumblr do a fusion dance?

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

Maybe we see penalization differently, and maybe we run different types of content. As I've said in other threads, if you want an engaging experience as a healer, you need to run with a bunch of random players who constantly stand in stuff and collect vuln stacks. If solo queuing the roulette is your primary activity, like mine is, then healing is rewarding. If you know the details of the fight, you can time your casts to go off right when the damage hits, and then players won't know how hard they've been hit. To me, that's a great feeling. If you don't know the details, you're constantly scrambling to keep up with the heals. Players claim that the job is boring, but I don't see it that way. If you're always running with the best of the best in a static, then of course healing is going to be boring. That's not indicative of a poorly designed game. To me, it's indicative of a personal choice to heal in easy mode.

As for spamming Glare, don't forget that you also have to maintain your Aero debuff while also getting rid of excess lillies to enable your Afflatus Misery casts. If spamming a skill and tracking two different timers, all while keeping your party alive isn't doing it for you, I honestly can't understand what it'll take to make you happy.

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To add to this, we can play our role two different ways depending on the group. If we have a solid group that doesn't need a lot of healing, we go to dps mode and push out the big booms. If we have a group that needs more healing, we get to be the heroes keeping the party going. I do wish we had a bit more going on with those super solid groups but my wants tend toward repurposing us as a Support role and letting us manage timers for buffs, debuffs, and damage shields in addition to restoring party health or preventing damage. Regardless, I do also find White Mage rewarding to play still and can find something I enjoy about it no matter the group. I wouldn't have mained it since 2014 if I didn't.

Pretty obvious what has gotten into the community over the last year or so. Someone left the door open one night.

https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms...7710084892.png

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

WoW did reduce button bloat

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Vanilla Frost Mage rotation was literally just Frostbolt, while today's is a nine-step process involving seven different buttons. If you follow that link I posted earlier, you'll see plenty of other evidence contrary to your claim that they reduced button bloat. No matter how many times that claim is made, the facts state otherwise.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

which is why in MoP many clases felt similar which is what we are dealing with in FF now.

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As for MoP, they didn't reduce button bloat. They eliminated the tree so that players couldn't pick sub-optimal talents anymore. This game literally launched that way. There has never been a way to select job skills in this game. You get what you get and you work out your rotation from there. Anyone playing at a high level in Cataclysm would have understood that this was basically the intent behind the MoP rework. They didn't simplify the rotations. They got rid of sub-optimal choices.

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

Vanilla Frost Mage rotation was literally just Frostbolt, while today's is a nine-step process involving seven different buttons. If you follow that link I posted earlier, you'll see plenty of other evidence contrary to your claim that they reduced button bloat. No matter how many times that claim is made, the facts state otherwise.

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So... you compare the base game to it's 9th expansion and you don't expect new buttons? That's one new step process per expansion, and not even 1 new button per expansion and that is button bloat to you?

Am I the only one that finds this comparison stupid?

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

So... you compare the base game to it's 9th expansion and you don't expect new buttons? That's one new step process per expansion, and not even 1 new button per expansion and that is button bloat to you?

Am I the only one that finds this comparison stupid?

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Button bloat to me is adding button after button every single expansion until there are way too many buttons for someone who hasn't been playing every single day of every single expansion to contend with. I never said I didn't expect new buttons. I said that it's ridiculous to claim that WoW has been reducing button bloat when they've been introducing more button bloat with every expansion. The facts speak for themselves. The comparison was made in light of the claim that they've been reducing button bloat. If you find it stupid, then I can only say that it's a matter of garbage-in-garbage-out.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

Some skills that shouldn't be that way such as minuet turning into pitch perfect.

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I wasn't convinced on this one before they did it either but I've really been loving it. I don't keep my songs in the same place as my more frequently used buttons and it's meant I can turn on WM a lot more smoothly than I did before without losing the benefit of where I have Pitch Perfect. I don't think I'd mind too much if they found a way to do it with the other two songs, so long as it didn't affect AoEs like Rain of Death.

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Originally Posted by Valfreyja

Pretty obvious what has gotten into the community over the last year or so. Someone left the door open one night.

https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms...7710084892.png

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Have to disagree. While this might be partly one of the causes of what's heppening, you can't blame the exodus of wow players. The quality has been dropping for years and the voices were always there. It wasn't until recently that they started to get noticed probably because they became more numerous due to the continued erosion of the player base's patience, which brought about discussion. This community LOATHES dissenting voices, and having to face something they are not able, nor willing, to face comes as a shock to everyone. Until now, they were able to silence everyone, but the dirty water is starting to come out and dissatisfied players are realising they have a voice and there's strength in numbers. Maybe, they have also realised that, as their fellow WoW players left their once precious homeland, they can make a move and stand their ground on what is unacceptable in their eyes instead of meekly praise the gods come what may.

Don't be so fast to ignore the voices and complaints of your brothers in Hydaelyn just because you don't like what they're saying. It's easier to blame the outsiders, but many of them were already here anyway and the most zealous ones, won't even touch the game, so...

I just don't take things seriously. Life is fun when you don't let things get to you.

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

I may or may not disagree with you on this, but I suspect we disagree because many have been claiming that WoW killed their game by simplifying it even though evidence objectively shows the exact opposite: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...player/1229062

Granted, I'm speaking from anecdotal personal experiences, but yesterday I chained 15 level 70 dungeons to complete my ShB relic grind. Early in the day, I had very little experience with those dungeons, and I died repeatedly, often getting carried by one or two people who knew what they were doing. By the end of the day, I was finishing off the bosses while the healer and the other DPS floor tanked. I was even collecting triple comms as a DPS, which rarely ever happens. To me, that indicates a well-designed game. I felt rewarded for my efforts, both in terms of progression as well as socially. WoW has the opposite design. It penalizes you for going into fights without any prior experience, and it also penalizes you for going into fights with others who have no prior experience. There is no motivation to get better because all you have to look forward to is more penalization. In my opinion, FFXIV's direction is the exact opposite of where WoW is. I find it ironic that so many players claim that FFXIV is going the way of WoW by simplifying their game when it's the exact opposite. They're avoiding WoW's pitfalls when they cut down on button bloat.

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You can hardly use that as a counter argument when the aformentioned trend started over a decade ago and that company has lost over 60 million MAU's in the past year.