What's the Healer rush?

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Originally Posted by AngelCheese77

I must be the odd one out as a WHM main. I don’t get bored at all with small pulls. I listen to You Tube and podcasts. Don’t remember sh on my account.

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I don't either. I'm busy dpsing. Or since Holy is up close and personal, dodging those mob AoEs because for some ungodly reason lately tanks run in circles around the grouped up mobs, pointing those AoEs right at formerly safe areas. I think a lot of people use something like small pulls as an excuse to disengage because it's not what they prefer, then complain that they feel bored and disengaged. I'm engaged in every fight, whether it's small or large.

No your wrong I have been a healer for a long time infact I beta tested ffxiv and was a healer in ffxi.

As I said not everyone wants to rush. And yes sometimes I have to spam every cool down and heal I got at the same time trying to get mana back.
SCH is the worst with the most mana problems. WHM never seems to run out. But like I said some tanks are lazy and just don't use any mitigation abilities. You can tell when you have a bad tank there like a mana spung and there heal just won't recover.
It's a party system everyone has to be doing there part. Also I hate dps that stands in attacks. First time i get maybe it was a mistake. But when they continue to do it and expect you to just heal there damage take. It's lazy and not my job to heal stupid. No cure for that..

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Originally Posted by Sagos75

SCH is the worst with the most mana problems. WHM never seems to run out.

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Ironically, WHM used to in Heavensward. Stormblood pretty much fixed our MP issues.

I have been leveling WHM lately and also learning scholar (I already had summoner to a fair high level so it was a matter of backtracking for class quests and gearing). The VAST majority of the dungeons I have done as a healer have not been bad. I have had new tanks who needed pointers on mechanics or took a few pulls to figure out how much worked for them. That is fine. I have never had a single pack pulling tank. I did have one that massively overpulled at the beginning of a dungeon and faceplanted despite my best efforts when I ended up out of MP (Quarn yeah too many bees and low DPS).

I will admit to letting one tank die semi intentionally. He would not put on tank stance, would not taunt, would only hit one mob in the pack and he was running off pulling way to much. By the third monster pull I was pretty much out of MP and patience (I had been asking him to put on tank stance multiple times). SO when he took off the next time the dps and I just sort of let him go. I didnt have the MP to heal him anyways at that point and by hanging back the MOBs didnt take us out. I rezzed him and we had a talk about tank stance and watching the healers MP. Dungeon went fine after that.

Probably was not my best moment but it worked out int he end.

I tell the tanks on my group to pull more as long as they can handle it. There are a few occasions the tank pulled more than 3 groups. Died even after using all my cooldowns. Going fast is great if it can be done. Don't forget some players are new to the game.

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Originally Posted by Myrany

I have been leveling WHM lately and also learning scholar (I already had summoner to a fair high level so it was a matter of backtracking for class quests and gearing). The VAST majority of the dungeons I have done as a healer have not been bad. I have had new tanks who needed pointers on mechanics or took a few pulls to figure out how much worked for them. That is fine. I have never had a single pack pulling tank. I did have one that massively overpulled at the beginning of a dungeon and faceplanted despite my best efforts when I ended up out of MP (Quarn yeah too many bees and low DPS).

I will admit to letting one tank die semi intentionally. He would not put on tank stance, would not taunt, would only hit one mob in the pack and he was running off pulling way to much. By the third monster pull I was pretty much out of MP and patience (I had been asking him to put on tank stance multiple times). SO when he took off the next time the dps and I just sort of let him go. I didnt have the MP to heal him anyways at that point and by hanging back the MOBs didnt take us out. I rezzed him and we had a talk about tank stance and watching the healers MP. Dungeon went fine after that.

Probably was not my best moment but it worked out int he end.

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I imagined the scene where a sad tank sitting humbly taking a sermon from the healer and DPSs XD

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Originally Posted by ArmaDragkun

Firstly let me say I've come from WoW so I'm used to a M+ environment where it's all about killing everything as fast as you can chain pulling ect

However when I came to FF and did dungeons almost everyone has been ok at the speed I go through a dungeon at (I'm a warrior) I say almost because on the few occasions that I've had someone in my group who has been the "go go go" guy it's always a healer.

Now I'm not saying I'm without blame in these cases but for the first time I go into a dungeon, I don't know how bad the mobs might hurt ect so I will air on the side of caution and so maybe I do go a little slow. I do always mention if it's the first time I'm doing a dungeon. The last case was the dungeon Doma Castle. The build up to this dungeon was awesome and I was looking forward to it. Instead what I had was a level 80 healer spent the entire dungeon running ahead of the group, barely healing me at all (on one group of mobs letting me die as he didn't cast a single healing spell)

So why is it with healers you're in such a god damn rush?

I kinda feel it's such a different attitude compared to everything else I've experience from the FF community.

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I understand that people are in a hurry and bored but both the tank and the healer need to be in the same mindset and experienced in big pulls when doing this. The objective is to clear the dungeon faster, yes? So wiping and resetting is not faster than small pulls.

If the healer is not experienced in big pulls, or if the tank is not experienced in big pulls, its wipe after wipe and then they end up going back to one pack at a time, which of course would have been faster than wiping repeatedly in the first place.

In my experience, when its the healer pushing a tank who is not prepared for it, we wipe and same for the reverse, a tank who is experienced with big pulls, pushing a healer who is not.

In my experience, it is always better to ask first and be certain that both parties can handle it.

its honestly not you its the way this game is designed for healers. I main healer and dungeons are so boring. at least when there's a big pull or someone sucks there's something for me to do lol

now ill never rush a tank bc lord knows Im trying to level my tank and I go one mob at a time, but I def get the boredom of healing small pulls

If it takes the party 40s to kill the first half pull of dungeon trash and 60s to kill the second half pull of dungeon trash, it would probably take the party 40s to kill it all as one full pull. That's how AoEs and cooldowns work. And unless people are grossly undergeared, it's safe to do full pulls. If people are undergeared, this is a gear problem, not a pull size problem, and people should update their gear.

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Originally Posted by MStowastiqVahlshdeh

I understand that people are in a hurry and bored but both the tank and the healer need to be in the same mindset and experienced in big pulls when doing this. The objective is to clear the dungeon faster, yes? So wiping and resetting is not faster than small pulls.

If the healer is not experienced in big pulls, or if the tank is not experienced in big pulls, its wipe after wipe and then they end up going back to one pack at a time, which of course would have been faster than wiping repeatedly in the first place.

In my experience, when its the healer pushing a tank who is not prepared for it, we wipe and same for the reverse, a tank who is experienced with big pulls, pushing a healer who is not.

In my experience, it is always better to ask first and be certain that both parties can handle it.

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While big pulls are efficient it's not completely about that or time. It is much more fun to wipe twice in a row attempting a big pull than to not do any big pulls at all. Good experience for everyone as well.

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Originally Posted by Nethereal

While big pulls are efficient it's not completely about that or time. It is much more fun to wipe twice in a row attempting a big pull than to not do any big pulls at all. Good experience for everyone as well.

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Exactly. Wipes aren't usually a point of frustration, they're usually pretty funny. I would much rather be in a dungeon with a healer and tank trying to get a handle on doing big pulls and dying in the process than be stuck in a dungeon with a single pull tank and an honest healer. The former are trying, the latter are worse than trust npc's, even if we nobody dies. It's as simple as that.

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Originally Posted by Nethereal

Why is everyone so scared of dying in a game? Fucking press w until you die or the game forces you to stop, solve problems when they actually become a problem don't make problems up in your head.

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I can't speak for the world.. but when I see people die people leave sometimes. And it just feels bad honestly. Now noted it's rare people get pissed but I've seen it happen a few times. So I can understand people wanting to play it safe.

Because most of us are over gear now and pulling ahead of tank without prior discussion is a terrible habit

Tank set the pace, if anyone feel the pull is too small or slow. They should talk to the tank

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Originally Posted by Gameovers

I can't speak for the world.. but when I see people die people leave sometimes. And it just feels bad honestly. Now noted it's rare people get pissed but I've seen it happen a few times. So I can understand people wanting to play it safe.

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95% chance the people leaving were the problem to begin with. If I had a nickel for every time someone threw a fit in a chat and then left, only for us to replace them and proceed to have no further issues clearing the content, I would have approximately $6.35.

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Originally Posted by ArmaDragkun

"go go go" guy it's always a healer.

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Most of the time this is the healers' way of telling the tank that they are ok with big pulls.
They either run ahead of the tank jumping up and down to the next pack (not necessary pulling) or type something in chat like "go go go", "pull everything", "big pulls please", etc..

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Originally Posted by ArmaDragkun

So why is it with healers you're in such a god damn rush?

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I highly recommend you to level a healer to understand them better. Healers after a certain level unlock abilities/spells that make healing big pulls a joke. If the tank is not doing big pulls, healers have almost nothing to do. It is more fun for most healers when the tank does big pulls. It gives them something to do.

If you think playing healer in dungeon is boring then don't play healer

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Originally Posted by Yuella

If you think playing healer in dungeon is boring then don't play healer

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I mean yeah it is easier to not play it. Just click the tank, set on follow and go do the dishes while the fairy heals. There's no point in causing a fuss when you can just match your effort to the lowest denominator and let the party have it their way. If that sounds like a slow run then the tank should pull bigger.

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Originally Posted by Yuella

If you think playing healer in dungeon is boring then don't play healer

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Yikers.
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Back in Heavensward, which is when I joined the game, big pulls weren't something I was used to doing since I was new. I'd say the tank was "making me work for it" when they did them, because I actually had to put in some effort to keep them alive compared to small pulls

Its because of how the game is designed. Everyone has tools for big pulls, and no one can use all of their tools if you pull small because it will be a waste. As a tank you need to look at your team and judge what your team can handle as a whole. Communicate you are new and then trust your healer because they are also judging what you can handle too and whether they can heal you through it.

Pulling small does a few things:

1. The tank takes more damage. Yep, over the course of the dungeon, you will take more damage. You can't stack mits and blow invulns on a huge pack and delete all that damage, you have to stagger them because you're slowly pulling, meaning most of the time you're taking unmitigated hits.
2. The healer will not actually need to heal. You might think this sounds good, but you're not a tank and 3 dps. A healer is a resource you're actively deciding not to use. You do not need heals in most dungeons if you pull 1 pack at a time. Not even on bosses. This is why a healer in your group WILL NOT HEAL YOU AT ALL if you pull this way. This isn't them telling you that you're shit, it's because it's a waste of a GCD, and they know it, so should you.
3. You're deleting enormous damage potency from the group. You are therefore a massive net negative to the party's DPS and the reason the run takes 20+ minutes instead of what it should take, making you the worst player in the group, much worse than a bad healer or a bad dps. Damage potency scales linearly with the number of targets, to a potency per GCD far in excess of anything possible on a boss or even a small pack (which may not even be a per-GCD potency damage increase for some classes). This stacks with damage CDs. Without pulls like these, those CDs will be used on 1-2-3 targets and not be very effective.

It's not just the healer in your group trying to get you to go faster. It's everyone. Don't be the anchor, don't be the worst player in your group.

Healing a dungeon is boring if you're just single pulling. Make your health bar move so i can feel alive!

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Pretty much the reason I have all tanks at 80 for the amaro but didn't bother learning how to play them properly. I'd be in Copperbell, tell the team I'm still getting it all under my belt and intentionally sticking to low dungeons to practice, and still get healers and dps running ahead and dumping more on me. So I noped out. Leveled with like MSQ and Deep Dungeon and other non-dungeon methods. Which was a shame for me, because I loved my Protection Paladin in WoW.

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Because it's Copperbell. Those entry dungeons can be tanked entirely by the DPS. They're absolutely no threat whatsoever so people just ahead because they're bored, especially high level players getting synced down in Leveling Roulette. If you learned how to play them properly, you'd discover just how ridiculously powerful they are in a big pull setting and why it's more or less the standard nowadays. Warrior is practically unkillable; Dark Knight hardly takes any damage once you unlock TBN and Gunbreaker does insane amounts of damage for a tank.

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Originally Posted by Sagos75

I hate the mindset that healers are just a one button job. It's a lot more complicated then that

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Only if you're doing wall to wall pulls. Otherwise, you're a gimped DPS spamming Art of War/Holy/Gravity. Small pulls simply don't deal enough damage for you to even pay the slightest bit of attention to the tank. I've literally gone entire dungeons with a small pulling tank where I didn't even heal them once. No Cure II, no Regen, nothing. They weren't taking enough damage for me to do anything but spam Holy or Glare. Even in an undergeared scenario, I'd maybe have to slap a Regen on them.

Small pulls are so weak, you'd legit be better off releasing the healer with another DPS. You wouldn't even need it to be Red Mage necessarily.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Because it's Copperbell. Those entry dungeons can be tanked entirely by the DPS. They're absolutely no threat whatsoever so people just ahead because they're bored, especially high level players getting synced down in Leveling Roulette. If you learned how to play them properly, you'd discover just how ridiculously powerful they are in a big pull setting and why it's more or less the standard nowadays. Warrior is practically unkillable; Dark Knight hardly takes any damage once you unlock TBN and Gunbreaker does insane amounts of damage for a tank.

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Yeah, one of the FIRST THREE dungeons of the game. You're essentially saying that we shouldn't have anywhere that tanks can learn. I can't learn how to play them properly because no one will LET ME. Would you rather I try to go practice in Pagl'than?? Because people on these forums whine that tanks don't know what to do by level 80. Well if you don't let them learn at level 17, they sure as hell aren't going to know at 80.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Yeah, one of the FIRST THREE dungeons of the game. You're essentially saying that we shouldn't have anywhere that tanks can learn. I can't learn how to play them properly because no one will LET ME. Would you rather I try to go practice in Pagl'than?? Because people on these forums whine that tanks don't know what to do by level 80. Well if you don't let them learn at level 17, they sure as hell aren't going to know at 80.

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You're not learning how to tank in Copperbell. The first two "bosses" literally can't even be tanked due to how the "mechanics" work. Furthermore, the concept of tanking at its core is "picking up aggro". If a DPS runs ahead of you in Sastasha, press your AoE. Congratulations, you've established aggro. That's all there is to learn at this level. You're also neglecting the fact that you might not be the only new player, and new DPS may not really being thinking about mob aggro. Nor are they going to be particularly phased when they do aggro something and it... barely does any damage to them. This is part of the issue with dungeon design as a whole. Many players are only going to respond to things which threaten them. It's precisely why vuln stacks are considered a meme. The increased damage isn't enough to matter, so people don't care.

Ideally, I'd actually agree with you that these baby dungeons should be a learning tools for tanks. Sadly, they're just... not.

It isn't until the more "meaty" dungeons like Sunken Temple or Stone Vigil where you actually have pull sizes to consider and enough mobs that can arguably threaten a tank, nevermind a DPS. In fact, when I first decided to learn tanking, I specifically spammed Stone Vigil, Darkhold and Aurum Vale because all three had unique challenges for a beginner tank. Granted, nowadays you can get away with pulling way more in Stone Vigil but it's still a good place to practice.

And while you may be using Pagl'than as a mock example. The sad part is... you honestly could use it for practice. So long as you know the basics of big pulls, which typically are: rotate your CDs and AoE. That dungeon just... doesn't deal any damage. Another problem with the dungeon design, though this is more Expert dungeons specifically.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

So long as you know the basics of big pulls, which typically are: rotate your CDs and AoE.

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So where are tanks going to learn the basics of big pulls if other players never let them? And what about the tanks who aren't high enough for SV, DD, AV, etc? Make their groups suffer until they get there? I was in like my 20s running these places, actually trying to learn as I went.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Yeah, one of the FIRST THREE dungeons of the game. You're essentially saying that we shouldn't have anywhere that tanks can learn. I can't learn how to play them properly because no one will LET ME. Would you rather I try to go practice in Pagl'than?? Because people on these forums whine that tanks don't know what to do by level 80. Well if you don't let them learn at level 17, they sure as hell aren't going to know at 80.

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I fail to see the issue.
Practicing in the worst conditions possible mean that when you are under the best conditions you are usually better than people who have only practiced in one setting.

Maybe I'm just old fashioned, I like the shark tank.

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Originally Posted by Nethereal

Was gunna say...

I don't queue as healer to watch youtube. Not to mention the admission was just circumventing the problem.
You are bored with small pulls that's why you watch youtube, if you weren't watching youtube you would be bored with small pulls, that's why you're watching youtube.

Class isn't boring I watch youtube when I'm there.

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Incorrect. Love how you grab words and conclusions out of thin air.

I am tired of the in game music so I listen to something else. Should have clarified I listen to it not watch as I don’t have a way to do that safely. Guess no one ever heard of being able to do 2 things at once?

I always an casting. #1 rule I feel. Those who are bored are just healing amd not participating. If you are bored in any dungeon then you aren’t doing your full class potential and that’s on you.

I also know when to leave. If I spemd all my MP keeping a group up through heavy pulls isn’t fun. It sucks. Rushing isn’t fun either for everyone. And lord help anyone who Rescues a tank into mobs.

And worst of all is the tank who heavy pulls with no care that their healer can’t keep up. That is stressful. And selfish. Another trait slowly showing

Overall I have never been bored as a healer no matter what others conclude of my words. Human nature allows people to become distracted. Ever notice you mind wandering? Or your gaze? Even when constantly healing I’ve thought of other things

Eh rambling here. But if your healer or DPS run ahead, let them. Pre 50 dungeons the danger really isn’t that high, and they can take a few hits easy. With post 50 dungeons being linear and having barricades every so often, it’s not that hard to grab 2 groups and a few solo ones

But never let anyone force you to play their way. In the DF it can happen. Never be afraid to leave a dungeon. Your fun and comfort more important

This thread convinced me to sign off of the forums. I have never actually seen anything anywhere close to this toxicity in game. Y'all need whatever whatever this game's equivalent of Jesus is. Probably Minfilia.

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Originally Posted by AngelCheese77

Incorrect. Love how you grab words and conclusions out of thin air.

I am tired of the in game music so I listen to something else. Should have clarified I listen to it not watch as I don’t have a way to do that safely. Guess no one ever heard of being able to do 2 things at once?

I always an casting. #1 rule I feel. Those who are bored are just healing amd not participating. If you are bored in any dungeon then you aren’t doing your full class potential and that’s on you[…]

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I had to stop reading at that point to ask: enlighten me what you mean by ”doing your full class potential.”.

Is it:
• Using all your resources and MP, not being able to DPS as much as a healer because your party is barely mediocre at best, if not below average & eats mechanic 90% of time?; or…
• Planned out all your healing abilities adequately, so much you probably don’t even spend any GCD using healing spells and blast away everything with your DPS spam buttons ad nauseam?

Also, I’m assuming that the tank in question is wall pulling or at least doing 2 packs per pull at minimum.

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Originally Posted by AngelCheese77

Incorrect. Love how you grab words and conclusions out of thin air.

I am tired of the in game music so I listen to something else. Should have clarified I listen to it not watch as I don’t have a way to do that safely. Guess no one ever heard of being able to do 2 things at once?

I always an casting. #1 rule I feel. Those who are bored are just healing amd not participating. If you are bored in any dungeon then you aren’t doing your full class potential and that’s on you.

I also know when to leave. If I spemd all my MP keeping a group up through heavy pulls isn’t fun. It sucks. Rushing isn’t fun either for everyone. And lord help anyone who Rescues a tank into mobs.

And worst of all is the tank who heavy pulls with no care that their healer can’t keep up. That is stressful. And selfish. Another trait slowly showing

Overall I have never been bored as a healer no matter what others conclude of my words. Human nature allows people to become distracted. Ever notice you mind wandering? Or your gaze? Even when constantly healing I’ve thought of other things

Eh rambling here. But if your healer or DPS run ahead, let them. Pre 50 dungeons the danger really isn’t that high, and they can take a few hits easy. With post 50 dungeons being linear and having barricades every so often, it’s not that hard to grab 2 groups and a few solo ones

But never let anyone force you to play their way. In the DF it can happen. Never be afraid to leave a dungeon. Your fun and comfort more important

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Has 1-3(4?) buttons that deal damage and a span of oGCDs along with a few healing GCDs that are never used because single pulls, is my fault fight is unengaging and I'm bored.
Kinda curious what big brain mental gymnastics you used to make it so the equivalent of practicing your dps rotation on a striking dummy as a healer is somehow engaging.
In fact it is fun for me to heal the entire group through heavy pulls and run out of mana despite everything being done decently, because I like to heal and be engaged in the content I'm doing. Hitting a striking dummy on healer is not engaging.
The only time constantly healing is not fun is when you're single pulling.

Also you left it open ended and implied you were watching a video on a different screen/tv, not that you had BGM turned off like everyone else and listening to other things. That's on you.

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Originally Posted by PredatoryCatgirl

This thread convinced me to sign off of the forums. I have never actually seen anything anywhere close to this toxicity in game. Y'all need whatever whatever this game's equivalent of Jesus is. Probably Minfilia.

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My way or the high way, in 3 months I’ve had only 1 run with real jerks (as a sprout in Praetorium, fun).

Most people won’t speak their minds either, feared of being reported/banned I suppose.

Honestly as a tank it’s not the end of the world. I just need more practice outside of Paglh’tan I grinded to death.
It depends on the group too because doing that with a pure 3/4 sprout team my not always be a good idea. As someone said, pulling 1 pack to test the team is ok.

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Originally Posted by PredatoryCatgirl

This thread convinced me to sign off of the forums. I have never actually seen anything anywhere close to this toxicity in game. Y'all need whatever whatever this game's equivalent of Jesus is. Probably Minfilia.

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I think I am nearly there also. These forums sound like the WoW forums with "learn 2 tank" and "gogogo." I literally never encounter this in game, or people are too afraid to say anything out of fear of being reported for harassment. Like its amazing how opposite these forums seem to be compared to my actual in game experiences.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

I think I am nearly there also. These forums sound like the WoW forums with "learn 2 tank" and "gogogo." I literally never encounter this in game, or people are too afraid to say anything out of fear of being reported for harassment. Like its amazing how opposite these forums seem to be compared to my actual in game experiences.

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The forums tend to highlight the negative experiences rather than the good ones; especially when someone is trying to make a point of an example. Keep in mind that for every bad experience in game, there's about 50 good experiences as well. People just tend to linger on the negative since it sticks out to us more that way than the positive. Better off to stay clear of any threads that have a clear stance on in game things if you want a more positive experience on the FF forums, otherwise you'll be seeing circling argument after argument.

I love that half this thread is answering the question, informing OP that A) healers have really boring design that's exacerbated by easy content, and B) dungeons in this game, more specifically dungeon trash pulls are mechanicless, have such low danger to them that you don't even need a tank when you single pull, and that single pulls teach nothing to anybody because you may as well be smacking training dummies for all the experience tanking or healing they provide you. Due to those two facts, C) there's no point pearl-clutching over dungeon content. It's incredibly easy. It's hard to imagine Square making dungeons any easier than they already are. This isn't Savage raiding or Ultimate content, you aren't being asked to give 110% or download a parser or stand in a pixel-perfect spot or wipe the party. If you occasionally press a cooldown you can make it through large pulls.

The other half of the thread is *pearl clutch* "GASP! The toxicity on these forums! Heavens to Murgatroyd! I thought this community was welcoming! My word! My stars and garters! You don't pay my sub!"

FFXIV has always had a toxicity problem: the most noxious of it is toxic casualism. Getting panties in a twist over pulling more than three training dummies at a time in dungeons, thereby bringing your danger dial from zero to teetering on the notch between zero and one. Much toxic, so elitist. This community is wild.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

I love that half this thread is answering the question, informing OP that A) healers have really boring design that's exacerbated by easy content, and B) dungeons in this game, more specifically dungeon trash pulls are mechanicless, have such low danger to them that you don't even need a tank when you single pull, and that single pulls teach nothing to anybody because you may as well be smacking training dummies for all the experience tanking or healing they provide you. Due to those two facts, C) there's no point pearl-clutching over dungeon content. It's incredibly easy. It's hard to imagine Square making dungeons any easier than they already are. This isn't Savage raiding or Ultimate content, you aren't being asked to give 110% or download a parser or stand in a pixel-perfect spot or wipe the party. If you occasionally press a cooldown you can make it through large pulls.

The other half of the thread is *pearl clutch* "GASP! The toxicity on these forums! Heavens to Murgatroyd! I thought this community was welcoming! My word! My stars and garters! You don't pay my sub!"

FFXIV has always had a toxicity problem: the most noxious of it is toxic casualism. Getting panties in a twist over pulling more than three training dummies at a time in dungeons, thereby bringing your danger dial from zero to teetering on the notch between zero and one. Much toxic, so elitist. This community is wild.

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Haha, you pretty much summarized the forums in a nutshell. Well done lmao

https://c.tenor.com/2K0JKY8UAQ8AAAAd/laughing.gif

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

I love that half this thread is answering the question, informing OP that A) healers have really boring design that's exacerbated by easy content, and B) dungeons in this game, more specifically dungeon trash pulls are mechanicless, have such low danger to them that you don't even need a tank when you single pull, and that single pulls teach nothing to anybody because you may as well be smacking training dummies for all the experience tanking or healing they provide you. Due to those two facts, C) there's no point pearl-clutching over dungeon content. It's incredibly easy. It's hard to imagine Square making dungeons any easier than they already are. This isn't Savage raiding or Ultimate content, you aren't being asked to give 110% or download a parser or stand in a pixel-perfect spot or wipe the party. If you occasionally press a cooldown you can make it through large pulls.

The other half of the thread is *pearl clutch* "GASP! The toxicity on these forums! Heavens to Murgatroyd! I thought this community was welcoming! My word! My stars and garters! You don't pay my sub!"

FFXIV has always had a toxicity problem: the most noxious of it is toxic casualism. Getting panties in a twist over pulling more than three training dummies at a time in dungeons, thereby bringing your danger dial from zero to teetering on the notch between zero and one. Much toxic, so elitist. This community is wild.

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As someone who is closer to a boomer than Gen Z, I grew up with the Internet in its infancy and I can say that I definitely agree with your observation. Ive been in every kind of online community imaginable not just gaming and I have never seen anything quite like the XIV community. I think there is a lot to be studied here by psychologists, sociologists, and historians.

That said, I will proudly clutch my pearls over this amazing, wonderful (if in game only and not the forums) community that I have discovered as I wallow in my toxic casualism fight to keep things out that I have witnessed destroy communities before, like overturned content, timed content, etc.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

The other half of the thread is *pearl clutch* "GASP! The toxicity on these forums! Heavens to Murgatroyd! I thought this community was welcoming! My word! My stars and garters! You don't pay my sub!"

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I believe communication is a lost art in current generation
Healer feel the pull too small and want a bigger pull? Speak in the teamchat
Tank feel uncomfortable for heal or dps run ahead? Speak in the teamchat

I believe either I am very lucky or teamchat work, from 2.0 till now, I have only 1 instance where someone rage quit after I open up saying pull too small/big

If players actually speak in team, most of these XXX jobs problem thread will not exist

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

As someone who is closer to a boomer than Gen Z, I grew up with the Internet in its infancy and I can say that I definitely agree with your observation. Ive been in every kind of online community imaginable not just gaming and I have never seen anything quite like the XIV community. I think there is a lot to be studied here by psychologists, sociologists, and historians.

That said, I will proudly clutch my pearls over this amazing, wonderful (if in game only and not the forums) community that I have discovered as I wallow in my toxic casualism fight to keep things out that I have witnessed destroy communities before, like overturned content, timed content, etc.

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If you think XIV's content is in any danger of being overtuned, I have a bridge to sell you. XIV's problem is its hard turn toward the opposite- most content is now so unchallenging that it doesn't even do its job of preparing players for challenging content. XIV's difficulty curve is more like a wall. Easy content is so undertuned that it has no teaching utility. The dungeons are just pretty. That's about it.

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I believe communication is a lost art in current generation
Healer feel the pull too small and want a bigger pull? Speak in the teamchat

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This is correct, however I've hardly ever needed to use it. Most people I've encountered ingame realize how easy dungeons are just by playing them, and do large pulls by default. Because this game's easy content is almost insultingly so.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

[...]most content is now so unchallenging that it doesn't even do its job of preparing players for "challenging" content[..]

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as seen when one does an alliance raid; almost every other of them, be it crystal tower, void ark, ivalice or the nier raids, you'll have multiple people do NOTHING, you have people who do 0 (z e r o) DPS throughout multiple bosses, you'll have people repeatedly dying to the same avoidable mechs over and over again, you'll have people who run away with stack markers, have people get genuinely confused by mechs that have been in the game since level 50 or so and the worst of it? those players aren't even the worst part

it's the people enabling this bull because it feeds into that toxic moral grandstanding that immediately followers whenever someone points those earlier things out, because being very toxic to 'bad people' is heckin valid and cute in their warped fricking mind
why would those bad players even try to get better when these people will defend them to death? after all, if people are defending them it means they're playing well, right? why learn when people willingly make their life harder to carry your deadweight butt through content you shouldn't be playing?

the seemingly rabid "muh nice and welcoming" pearl clutchers who insult and harass you if you dare to tell someone to please do some DPS or not run away with the mechs or even like, to not die to the same mech they died 4-5 times at this point, are the worst
you'll have half or more of an alliance emote spamming at you, get tanks that shirk you before TBs, get healers that rescue you into AOEs or death, but that's okay because you're the bad guy in their warped view, you're the toxic one for asking someone to not be AFK or ask another alliance to not aim their bad at you