So you pretty much invalidated your own argument then. Gotcha.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnmaat
"You're looking for something that's not there." "There's some."
And there goes all your creditability on the subject just like that. :3
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07-21-2020, 01:56 AMSomeRandomHuman
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07-21-2020, 01:58 AMCrushnightThe closet males get are Innocence, Seiryu, Byakko, Zenos, Eden Ifrit/Titan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hysterior
Yet all of them have monster type add ons, bladed wings for Innocence, tiger head for hand, snake lower body + 2 snake heads, in full armor, beastly head, it's like the devs start with solid male appeal at points and just go let's add more because it's a guy, we can, but when it comes to females it's like they go, no no let's stop before adding monster parts.
It's the way the devs are just have to keep voicing we like a few more Innocence looking type bosses please. Personally speaking it would be nice to see at least one relatively normal male voidsent, the whole 13th swallowed by darkness mutating everyone looks off when it seems most females look relatively normal after their transformation. -
07-21-2020, 02:09 AMAmnmaatEasy to paint what you want by not quoting the entire statement. Further from that comes the exceptions. But don't quote that, it doesn't fit your painting.Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeRandomHuman
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07-21-2020, 02:11 AMMirronTulaxiaWhy I said arguing with them was pretty pointless. They have an ultra conservative standpoint on things (also a Creationist based on earlier comments), even if you trot out countless studies it’s all dismissed.Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeRandomHuman
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07-21-2020, 02:15 AMDriavnaI'm more annoyed by the fact that so many of those enemies use the same skeleton with the same animations. So even if I don't mind so many female bosses, is starting to get very repetitive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hysterior
Then another question comes to my mind: why Garuda has breast? Why the last boss of the new dungeon also has breast too? One is supposed to come from a bird-like creature, and the other from a fish-like creature (and I'm pretty sure that the last one reproduces via eggs). -
07-21-2020, 02:16 AMAmnmaatI am far from conservative.Quote:
Originally Posted by MirronTulaxia
As for your 'creationism part;" you don't know what I believe in, please refraim from getting into religious discussions in this forum. -
07-21-2020, 02:21 AMMirronTulaxiaQuote:
Originally Posted by Amnmaat
As for you being conservative or not the evidence speaks for itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnmaat
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07-21-2020, 02:23 AMSkivvyBecause they use a humanoid form, and boobs are a big seller. :3Quote:
Originally Posted by Driavna
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07-21-2020, 02:23 AMBlackheartThat can be taken from both sides of the "yay" or "nay".Quote:
Originally Posted by MirronTulaxia
People can have a very strong one sided opinion, especially on forums. Some people are willing and able to come up with reasonable "For" or "Against" arguments but alot of people won't (or refuse) to acknowledge. Just have to have an open mind when posting and be will to take some criticism lest get alot of feels hurt lol -
07-21-2020, 02:24 AMTsumdereWhy do the Ananta and Lakshmi have breasts being an all-female snake race?Quote:
Originally Posted by Driavna
Because if she no have boob... how do know is woman???????????
Thanks I hate it. :CQuote:
Originally Posted by SturmChurro
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07-21-2020, 02:27 AMSturmChurroEven snake girls have them. :) Super true. How would you even know?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumdere
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20150619184546 -
07-21-2020, 02:30 AMAmnmaatYou don't know what I believe in, creator means many different things in different belief systems.Quote:
Originally Posted by MirronTulaxia
What evidence? That men by nature are rugged and women are beautiful and sexy? That's not conservatism, that's the nature of the sexes. -
07-21-2020, 02:34 AMDriavnaQuote:
Originally Posted by Tsumdere
Wait, I thought for it we used really big eyelashes and a ribbon:
https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/silh...-109825969.jpg -
07-21-2020, 02:36 AMEldevernThe line? How do you know?Quote:
Originally Posted by VirusOnline
We hardly can compare the representation of sexualization and objectification since women and men don't exactly consider the same criterias to define what is sexy.
Maybe it is my generation but women I know are less thrilled by a bare man body than by some kind of charisma/classy vibe.
If we consider iconic sexy men, a lot of them are less noticable for their muscular apparence than their charisma.
If we come to talk about objectification, the way men are represented as muscular beast (they look human or not) is clearly some kind of objectification. -
07-21-2020, 02:37 AMMirronTulaxiaI didn’t claim you were Christian, but Creationism is still what that is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnmaat
And anyone with any real knowledge in those studies knows that isn’t the case. But as I said, you aren’t worth trying to argue with. -
07-21-2020, 02:48 AMVirusOnlineWe're no longer in the territory of the original argument. You're dragging me into an argument of subjectivity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldevern
If you have an opinion on the original quote that I was responding to, feel free to address it. -
07-21-2020, 02:55 AMAmmokkx
Yeah, yeah, cute sexy bosses are great and all
but why can't I score a cute miqo'te GF -
07-21-2020, 03:01 AMfoussi
They should add an jojo esque female boss .
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07-21-2020, 03:10 AMAmnmaatStop making this about my beliefs, you don't even know what belief system I practice.Quote:
Originally Posted by MirronTulaxia
You sure care about what what I believe in for someone who's "not worth to argue with."
You will never change the nature of the sexes, no matter how much tv tells you that you can. -
07-21-2020, 03:29 AMEldevernMaybe because you are nowhere objective as you believe to be?Quote:
Originally Posted by VirusOnline
When we start to write " I want to be as unbiased as I possibly can, and perhaps it's easier for me to do so as I can platonically appreciate both male and female gender as a male myself." there already is a problem since we believe we are more objective than anyone else can be.
We never can be objective since it is not only representation but also tastes and cultural (if not religious) beliefs. -
07-21-2020, 03:31 AMRodaAnanta I kinda give a pass because there's a distinct line between lady and snek, but the final boss of akademia Anyder really confuses me with her very simian fish boobies. (tho other than that she's a great design for a monstrous female character)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumdere
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07-21-2020, 03:33 AMxxvaynxxUhh...you're the one that brought it up its subjective my guy not me? honestly you're just babbing at this point to keep this argument going and its not looking great. Saying something is subjective to gain a foothold is a weak argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krotoan
Because why have a debate at all because everything is subject which goes back to my point if you knew this, you were arguing for the sake of it. Seriously, but you're way too hardheaded.
"Can't make people look a little more human" Dude? what are you even talking about? oh so women with large breast are not as human to you? but guys that was swole like a beast is? Man I must not look that human to you then because I'm pretty busty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krotoan
Sorry the people in MK always looked human...aside the obvious ones.
It's clear you never played mortal kombat so don't act like you know who was living through "life threatening injuries" canon wise in MK11 since that's when they decided to be "real". Just stop talking because you don't even know.
Or are you talking about gameplay wise if thats the case...you're just repeating what I just said lmao?
You're just babbing at this point dude. Just stop.
They started out with "normal" fighting clothes...Oh you mean johnny cage who's shirtless? fighting demons, monsters and blades? totally suited for fighting people with swords of all sorts?
So again..I ask you why so did females outfits change? why did the males get their classic outfits DLC while the females didn't? why did they change from head to toe in full bodysuit amour. Why were the females faces changed from their actual models to be less attractive? and the guys face models stayed untouched? oh I'm sorry. its subjective so no point talking about that. Your sexism is showing. -
07-21-2020, 04:12 AMJovenIt's not a loaded question because it's something that's been around pretty much forever. Men get shamed for looking at a porn magazine yet women can read smutty romance novels that are just verbal pornography, which objectify both men and women, and it's perfectly acceptable (think 50 Shades of Gray). Women objectify themselves by reading books like that, but for some reason it's only bad if they believe men are doing it to them. On top of that it's an assumption that just because something is appealing that it's being objectified. It's entirely possible to admire and be attracted to something and not objectify it. As I've said before women are traditionally viewed as elegant and graceful, but somewhere down the line, somehow, it became a problem to appreciate that elegance and grace.Quote:
Originally Posted by VirusOnline
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07-21-2020, 04:18 AMSturmChurrohttps://media.tenor.com/images/8704b...f90e/tenor.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by Joven
Why would you even post this? This thread is one heck of a ride. -
07-21-2020, 04:21 AMJovenRead what I was replying to. I couldn't fit the whole quote due to post size and didn't feel like ninja editing.Quote:
Originally Posted by SturmChurro
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07-21-2020, 04:35 AMsarehptar
If 5.3 doesn't deliver us a
then what am I even playing this game for?sexy Elidibus!Ardbert fight where he magically loses half his armor in the phase change and we get dramatic close ups of hischestuh emotionally-fraught eyes -
07-21-2020, 06:19 AMTlamila
Yes please, more skimpy sexy male bosses, and without fur and bestial stuff in general.
Eden's Ifrit was a big step in the right direction tbh.
And if female bosses can wear thongs, why can't male ones? -
07-21-2020, 07:37 AMhydralus
Ramuh looking fine too.
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07-21-2020, 07:38 AMGothicshark
Laughs in Ascian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWTZDhXw7AI -
07-21-2020, 09:06 AMKrotoanMy point was why do you think that them changing the character to something other than the flawless skinned , symmetrical faced, large breasted typical female representation was a bad thing? Can you answer that question?Quote:
Originally Posted by xxvaynxx
Everything is subjective insofar as I cannot see things as you see them or ever truly know what your perspective is. However that's beyond the argument here. There are many things that are NOT subjective so far as scientific observations are involved. So no, everything is NOT subjective. BUT we are arguing that the characters you perceive as "fugly" and "Bcup" was a downgrade and pandering. Aesthetics being VERY subjective, again, why was this a problem?
The people in MK originally WERE human. All based on actual video capture. Then we started having CG characters and boobs got bigger, antigravity and rock hard. As someone with large breasts I'm sure you understand that two vertical strips of cloth aren't going to keep your chest in check while flip jumping and getting kicked in the face right? I'm wondering how you're arguing that when you likely daily have to deal with the problems of having a large chest.Quote:
Originally Posted by xxvaynxx
The people in MK were always supposed to be human, but have evolved into caricatures of the original concepts with exaggerated features, physiques, and movement. Having an aesthetic change isn't necessarily pandering.
I am talking about gameplay, and I'm saying that I can accept that it's going to be unrealistic at times. However Making the ART STYLE more realistic isn't particularly bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by xxvaynxx
at least he doesn't have to worry about his junk falling out during a fight? NOBODY in this game is set for fighting the things that get thrown at them, but at least now they're not wearing what looks like sexualized halloween costumes.Quote:
Originally Posted by xxvaynxx
Again.. the guys faces WERE changed.. are you looking at the same game I am? Everyone changed. Considering the men never really had the problem with clothing the women had, I'm not surprised their wardrobe changed so little.Quote:
Originally Posted by xxvaynxx
How am I sexist? that's a pretty heavy accusation. Or are you just saying buzzwords hoping to make me look bad? -
07-21-2020, 10:47 AMxxvaynxxYeah thanks for proving you have no idea what you're talking about or even what I meant and I'm not going to waste my time trying to correct you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krotoan
I wasn't talking about the mocap actors lol, wtf?
You're so far left field you're out the court.
Also didn't realize goro and barrak were human as well.
Please stop talking about a game you know nothing about, you're just making yourself look silly with your quick google search of MK history.
I'm done debating with you. -
07-21-2020, 10:51 AMKrotoanGood.. the non-sequiturs are getting jarring. Byeeee!Quote:
Originally Posted by xxvaynxx
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07-21-2020, 07:14 PMTheRealQuah
Wow, this thread is a wild ride and I really don't want to touch it but there's so much bs being thrown around in here it's unreal.
First, people need to stop throwing around "attractive" like there's some internationally recognised attractiveness scale that everyone follows. It's subjective and differs on a persons preferences. Comments like "developers deliberately make characters ugly to get better review scores" and "fugly with B cups" are incredibly insulting to a vast majority of women, and anyone espousing these sort of views, loses any credence of credibility in my eyes.
Ironically, your idea of "the nature of the sexes" is exactly what TV has told you to believe. The idea that men are rugged and women are sexy, (and I'm not saying they can't be), is what your culture and society has taught you to believe. The only reason that there isn't tons of rugged women and sexy men running around isn't because of some biological nature, it's because for thousands of years society has forced people into accepted social gender norms. Thankfully, these are being eroded day by day and views like yours will die out over time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnmaat
To the point of the post. The plain fact of the matter is that the gaming community as a whole, and those who play video games, is a male dominated scene. Even more so in Japan, where they are not as progressive as the west. It's no surprise that a Japanese game, made by a Japanese company, with their biggest market being Japan, has so much of an overabundance of "sexy women" characters. I'm not advocating whether this is right or wrong.
The gaming community has a fairly large crossover with the incel community, and they are very vocal. As we have seen in the west, there is huge outcry when a game developer dares to challenge these societal norms. Voice actors getting death threats levels of insanity, just for voicing a character that doesn't conform to their ideals. Many companies are going to see it as bad business to innovate in character design when these are the consequences of it. And to whoever was trying to blame Sony for censorship, try pointing the blame at the likes of PEGI. Companies have to censor to meet the standards of regulators. -
07-21-2020, 08:21 PMcraybestthat's just pure BS, both women and men are sexy, it depends who is looking at them. just because you don't find men sexy it doesn't mean theyre not. just that you can't appreciate it, have you not seen the impact of actors like Henry Cavill, Chris Evans, Chris Hemsworth, Chris Pratt, Chris Pine (lots of Chris-es!) and many others? people are crazy about them, because they're HOT an SEXY.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnmaat
about the topic at hand, I'm not against sexy bosses as long as it's fair treatment. sexy women and monster males are very dated archetypes, let's bring some newer things! give us eyecandy, but in a fairer amount. And some people really fail to see how amazing it is to see strong wild bestial female characters too, even now it's a relatively unused archetype. -
07-21-2020, 08:28 PMDriavnaThe same game published in EU is only censored with lens flare on PS4, not Nintendo Switch. This "global standard" policy is a thing Sony is enforcing on its platform. Hey! Their platform their rules, right? True, if you enforce that policy equally and TLoU2 is a proof of this not happening.Quote:
And to whoever was trying to blame Sony for censorship, try pointing the blame at the likes of PEGI. Companies have to censor to meet the standards of regulators.
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07-21-2020, 08:40 PMGaido
Yeah. When I did this post on reddit about alternative events in Kholusia at the end of Shadowbringers (https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._and_using_my/) some people appreciate the fact it's not a sexy skimpily white-armored 6 winged bunny girl with a halo :d
I like sexy girls, but Final Fantasy is for me series of game that exceeds limits of creativity. For me boss fights in this game are amazing, but I will accept with open arms some concepts that I would never guess that can be an amazing boss. -
07-21-2020, 08:48 PMEldevernNot totally true. If you learn to draw, you will fast realize that to draw someone who look to be a girl/women or someone who look the be a man will share some specific shape rules based on "biological gender" (as an average).Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRealQuah
Head skeleton of a woman and head skeleton of a man can be identified as such. You can know if it is a woman or a man based of the width of the pelvis. So no, it is not cultural or education, a part is purely genetical since humans, as any mammal has genetical inherited reproduction criterias. -
07-21-2020, 08:55 PMcraybestno one says there isn't any differences to the biological sexes. but none of those differences are "women are sexy are men are not" what is or isnt sexy depends on who looks at it, both personal opinion and society. males and females do have biological differences, both can be sexy in their own way, but for some reason, FFXIV only tends to show sexy females, that's the issue the OP is talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldevern
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07-21-2020, 09:00 PMTheodric
When it comes to video-games, context is important. A game going for gritty realism, for example, is likely to have a lot of characters that aren't super attractive in it. For a game such as FFXIV, that happily leans on the 'ideal' aesthetics then I'd expect to see plenty of conventionally attractive men and women alike. I do think there's a lot more that could be done in regards to putting forward conventionally attractive male characters in this game. Highlanders, for example, deserve real eyebrows and some better facial options.
Other Final Fantasy games don't struggle with offering tall, muscular and very handsome men to either play as or look at. The classically handsome sort. I'm not sure why FFXIV is the exception to that rule - at least in regards to playable character options. I'd love to play as a character along the lines of Basch from FF12, Jecht from FF10, Gladio from FF15 or Snow from FF13. Yet at present it's impossible. Meanwhile, female characters have all sorts of different routes to be conventionally attractive. They have a tall and conventionally attractive option and short, dainty and elegant conventionally attractive options.
Those of us who want to play a male character that is tall, muscular, classically handsome and actually has real eyebrows are out of luck. Midlander men are a decent enough compromise for the time being, though I do hope the game sees an expansion to character customisation options at some point. -
07-21-2020, 09:11 PMLauront
Agreed. I don't really have an issue with them doing it for the female characters, but some more options and offerings for the males would be nice too.