How has your mindset changed with regards to other players since your started the ga?

I don't know. Savage PF has crushed all the joy and happiness in me. I feel like a very old and empty bunny right now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

snip

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We tend to be much harsher on ourselves with performance than outside observers.

This community is not as nice as I thought it was. I have learned that when I first got engaged in the beaten to death healers not dpsing arguments. This community can take the most trivial things and blow it up to something that is not worth getting that upset over to begin with.

I don't really expect anyone except me, the people I know, and people with ultimate titles to be competent really.

The only person whose performance is consistent across all my random groups is me, so I just focus on being as competent as possible so even if there's a few baddies I can carry if needed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

This community is not as nice as I thought it was. I have learned that when I first got engaged in the beaten to death healers not dpsing arguments. This community can take the most trivial things and blow it up to something that is not worth getting that upset over to begin with.

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Try to bring World of Warcraft up anywhere once, in game or on the forums. I triple dog dare you. :p If you thought it was bad before...

"But muh precious game!"

"This game is pretty, therefore better!"

"lol if you like WoW so much why don't you go play it instead?"

"WoW sucks, even though I've never played it and my opinion is based on absolutely nothing concrete."

...Just a small taste of how it goes.

This community, overall, is relatively friendly for the most part. But I wouldn't put it up on a pedestal and shout to the heavens about it. It has its own brand of toxicity. Always has, really. Instead of outright hostility it is usually a combination of passive aggressiveness and superiority complexes.

People take themselves and this game too seriously. It's hilarious really, better take a chill pill.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

This community is not as nice as I thought it was. I have learned that when I first got engaged in the beaten to death healers not dpsing arguments. This community can take the most trivial things and blow it up to something that is not worth getting that upset over to begin with.

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Dont let what you read here have influence on how you feel about the rest of the community. There are nice folks that playand dont approach the game like a masters degree at Harvard.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Quintessa

We tend to be much harsher on ourselves with performance than outside observers.

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While this may be true at least to my own instance, there’s the point where the ‘nice player’-attitude becomes too much to handle & detrimental to players’ overall improvement which are... not nice at all.

Asking for an advice or commentary only to get a “you’re fine!” on the face doesn’t feel good at all. I wasn’t asking for a reassurance. I was asking for a suggestion that may improve my gameplay so I can be a better functioning player in the community & not be a deadweight myself a.k.a. wasting other people’s time. Such replies & the excessive tip-toeing is simply not exactly conducive for improvement.

/playdead

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Originally Posted by Dogempire

people with ultimate titles to be competent really.

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That's not even a guarantee. You can be an ultimate-clearing DPS and be a terrible healer in a dungeon, or have no clue how to play any other job. I've seen this a lot so I don't have "higher" expectations towards anyone really. And people can have their own reasons for being bad on a specific day or whatever. That's an MMO, you have to show some flexibility on your own side, otherwise you are poisoning yourself if you expect anything from anyone you don't know.

I must admit, I've never had as bad experiences as I see people tell here on the forums. Maybe I don't notice because I don't really care... In most DF content I play as a healer so I don't see notably bad healers (unless I see a pre-pull medica II, that's a clear no-no sign).
I don't use PF anymore, but the last times I did, I was with nice players, quite competent too. I've never seen people actively harrassing people in chat, I've never noticed evil undermining players. I've been around for almost 5 years now.
But I do agree that I see people that are just bad, and it's a bit annoying when you are max level to see people with blatant issues with chore game / job mechanics when you're supposed to have 80 levels worth of experience in the game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Try to bring World of Warcraft up anywhere once, in game or on the forums. I triple dog dare you. :p If you thought it was bad before...

"But muh precious game!"

"This game is pretty, therefore better!"

"lol if you like WoW so much why don't you go play it instead?"

"WoW sucks, even though I've never played it and my opinion is based on absolutely nothing concrete."

...Just a small taste of how it goes.

This community, overall, is relatively friendly for the most part. But I wouldn't put it up on a pedestal and shout to the heavens about it. It has its own brand of toxicity. Always has, really. Instead of outright hostility it is usually a combination of passive aggressiveness and superiority complexes.

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I don’t get why people keep bringing WoW up though to be honest. You clearly know the reaction it gets, so why do it?

I’d agree FF14 has a lot of passive agressivness in NN and on forums but for me that’s head and shoulders above some of the stuff I saw in trade chat when playing wow.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vickii

I’d agree FF14 has a lot of passive agressivness in NN and on forums but for me that’s head and shoulders above some of the stuff I saw in trade chat when playing wow.

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Agreed. FFXIV tantrums are kidgloves by comparison to what I see daily in PF there.

It really is just passive aggression most of the time. When someone REALLY LOSES IT it's a novelty. I think the most aggression and poor behavior I've seen has been in savage pugs, and even then it wasn't anything too extreme.

Drama within FCs can be a different beast, but FFXIV as a community? Pretty damn good all things considered.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vickii

I don’t get why people keep bringing WoW up though to be honest. You clearly know the reaction it gets, so why do it?

I’d agree FF14 has a lot of passive agressivness in NN and on forums but for me that’s head and shoulders above some of the stuff I saw in trade chat when playing wow.

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I might be able to answer this to a certain degree.
Since WoW is one of the oldest MMO's arround and still kicking arround just fine, it had set alot "norms" for other MMO's which they either tried to copy or use as a template to create their own stuff (or at least, it looked that way).
WoW has in my opinion, a great combat system, it isn't perfect, but every job is capable of dealing with any kind of situation to a fair degree (even in PvP) and ontop of that, customisation options for skills (which we unfortunately, dont have) in the form of skilltrees.
as for the matter of PvP, they also have way more content than we probably will ever have in FFXIV, which is a real shame, to be exact they have:
- 11 battleground options (also crossrealm)
- you can duel everywhere outside of towns
- 2vs2, 3vs3 and 5vs5 arena fights, both ranked and unranked.
- "random pvp", which is automatically triggered on when you see a player of the opposing faction.
- World PvP (dedicated zones iirc) which are 4 in number (imagine bozja with pvp, to put it simple)
and that's just the pvp content, the rest of WoW content is in similar magnitude or even higher, so People who stopped playing the game, usually come with high expectations if they plan to settle for a new game, but end up being disappointed how unfleshed looks like compared to WoW. It doesn't mean that every game is bad compared to WoW, its just them being somewhat disappointed.

In my opinion, WoW are kind of polar opposites, WoW has a Great combat system but a somewhat bad/nonexistent story where your character hardly matters, while FFXIV, has a great story where you do actually matter, with a rather unfleshed and basic form of combat compared to the former.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vickii

I don’t get why people keep bringing WoW up though to be honest. You clearly know the reaction it gets, so why do it?

I’d agree FF14 has a lot of passive agressivness in NN and on forums but for me that’s head and shoulders above some of the stuff I saw in trade chat when playing wow.

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I only mention it at all sometimes when there is a feature to compare with. Their "glamour" system is better designed compared to ours as one example. You are correct though, Trade Chat is 10 times worse as well as the player base itself, but that doesn't make FF XIV's own toxic side null and void.

Yeah I played wow and enjoyed it. There’s definetly some things it does better than FF14 but I feel that WoW players in general have a negative impact on FF14.

It seems like many of those passive aggressive people complaining about dps parses in the novice network of all places come from WoW. And they’re passive aggressive because if they call you a scrub and tell you to gtfo like they do in WoW they’ll get in trouble/be frowned upon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

While this may be true at least to my own instance, there’s the point where the ‘nice player’-attitude becomes too much to handle & detrimental to players’ overall improvement which are... not nice at all.

Asking for an advice or commentary only to get a “you’re fine!” on the face doesn’t feel good at all. I wasn’t asking for a reassurance. I was asking for a suggestion that may improve my gameplay so I can be a better functioning player in the community & not be a deadweight myself a.k.a. wasting other people’s time. Such replies & the excessive tip-toeing is simply not exactly conducive for improvement.

/playdead

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Youre fine probably because in thier minds you are fine.

On the other hand some arent sure how to deliver constructive criticism without worrying about rubbing someone the wrong way. There's even some folks who ask for this but then cant take it.

I once had a friend who was just straight up bad. Getting her to upgrade her gear was like trying to scratch my back without a back scratcher.

It turns into a darned if you do darned if you dont thing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vickii

Yeah I played wow and enjoyed it. There’s definetly some things it does better than FF14 but I feel that WoW players in general have a negative impact on FF14.

It seems like many of those passive aggressive people complaining about dps parses in the novice network of all places come from WoW. And they’re passive aggressive because if they call you a scrub and tell you to gtfo like they do in WoW they’ll get in trouble/be frowned upon.

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Ah, I was wondering when you would begin your tin foil hatting. There it is. If nothing else you're predictable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vickii

Despite what you think I’m not a troll.

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I have yet to see evidence to the contrary. And, unlike you, I have forum posts (actual evidence) to back my claims up if I choose to. Really don't want to go searching though. In this post I'm responding to (dang post limits!) alone you have contradicted yourself 3-4 times. If you can provide the proof for your claims, by all means. But as the internet would say...pics or it didn't happen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Ah, I was wondering when you would begin your tin foil hatting. There it is. If nothing else you're predictable.

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It’s not tin foil hat. I didn’t say all, I said many. And I know this because they openly admit to it.

Despite what you think I’m not a troll. There are many of us who feel WoW players bring negativity to FFXIV. It’s just a different environment. Many of them adjust really well and are super helpful people. But some do try to bring the elitism and roflcopter spam here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Anhra

Since WoW is one of the oldest MMO's arround and still kicking arround just fine,

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I had a good laugh at this. If WoW was doing fine there would be no need to release WoW Classic to keep it's players in and leaving. It's player base is basically 70% bots and 30% people who haven't left Blizzards teets since it was released - A.K.A Asmongold.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

I had a good laugh at this. If WoW was doing fine there would be no need to release WoW Classic to keep it's players in and leaving. It's player base is basically 70% bots and 30% people who haven't left Blizzards teets since it was released - A.K.A Asmongold.

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You do realize WoW still complete dwarfs FFXIV, yes? While neither Blizzard nor SE post official data, unofficial censuses estimates WoW having nearly 5M active accounts whereas FFXIV's estimated active characters is just shy of 1M. And both games have bot problems. Ironically, WoW does a significantly better job than FFXIV in terms of dealing with theirs.

(forgot to quote the guy I wanted to quote fml)
You guys probably haven't played WoW in quite a while cause nowadays trade chat is just full of boosting service spam and no casual chatter.

Anyway to the OP: When i started the game(started in 5.3 shadowbringers patch) I rarely gave a shit about what others are doing on duties and just moved on with the dungeon (to be honest i was actually surprised that people say hi and goodbye in duties).

Nowadays I watch castbars and movements of whichever guy is in the duty and if I see something wrong I try to maybe give a hint (but then realise that it usually flies above their heads, sigh and either move on ). Along with the fact that alt characters also get a sprout I never really see sprouts anymore as new players and I now chuckle whever I see somebody with a mentor crown in the duty thinking "lol burger king" to myself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OrpheusKappa

You guys probably haven't played WoW in quite a while cause nowadays trade chat is just full of boosting service spam and no casual chatter.

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Well that’s good at least. When I played it was just constant roflcopter macros, spam and people making jokes about dead babies and things. Really really horrid place.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

You do realize WoW still complete dwarfs FFXIV, yes? While neither Blizzard nor SE post official data, unofficial censuses estimates WoW having nearly 5M active accounts whereas FFXIV's estimated active characters is just shy of 1M. And both games have bot problems. Ironically, WoW does a significantly better job than FFXIV in terms of dealing with theirs.

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Well for one you're wrong on the unofficial censuses. I'll post it for you.

https://mmo-population.com/r/ffxiv/
https://mmo-population.com/r/wow/

FFXIV is shy of 2m and WoW is down to 4.2m from 7m and it'll go down more. It only rose because of the expansion. Lastly i beg to differ on the bot issue. I watch Asmongold quite a bit. WoW has a bot problem. A big one from what i see in the videos. So i highly doubt WoW handles their bot problem any better.

And it obviously went way over your head. Battle for Azeroth was so crap that they had to release Classic WoW because they were losing players fast. Now they are updating classic WoW alongside the current WoW to keep players in hence why i said they weren't doing fine. I mean, look at the chart for WoW. It stayed around 2m'ish(3) and only rose due expansion.

When I first started all those years ago, I thought the players would be like they were in other MMOs: elitist, antisocial, and in a constant hurry. I never understood this perspective because I play the game because I enjoy playing with other people and generally find the gameplay/world interesting. It isn't a second job, an identity, or a chore that I feel I have to do.

The more I have played and the more I have made friends in-game, the more I feel that the community in FFXIV, generally, is welcoming, positive, and, if not social, at least polite. Other than a few instances in Party Finder, nearly every player takes the opportunity to respond to chat or emotes and offers patience or guidance for new players. The fact that I get some compliment at least once a week from some random player (for my performance in a duty, my glam, or something else) is testament to that kindness.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Ah, I was wondering when you would begin your tin foil hatting. There it is. If nothing else you're predictable.



I have yet to see evidence to the contrary. And, unlike you, I have forum posts (actual evidence) to back my claims up if I choose to. Really don't want to go searching though. In this post I'm responding to (dang post limits!) alone you have contradicted yourself 3-4 times. If you can provide the proof for your claims, by all means. But as the internet would say...pics or it didn't happen.

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I think we just have a disconnect. You always ask for proof of things that can’t be proven. I say some players from WoW are elitist in novice network. My ‘proof’ is my personal experience. I have seen players say they played wow then go on to be elitist in novice network. I don’t really know how to prove this to you. Perhaps the burden of proof here should be on you. Show me that not a single elitist in novice network played wow.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

Well for one you're wrong on the unofficial censuses. I'll post it for you.

https://mmo-population.com/r/ffxiv/
https://mmo-population.com/r/wow/

FFXIV is shy of 2m and WoW is down to 4.2m from 7m and it'll go down more. It only rose because of the expansion. Lastly i beg to differ on the bot issue. I watch Asmongold quite a bit. WoW has a bot problem. A big one from what i see in the videos. So i highly doubt WoW handles their bot problem any better.

And it obviously went way over your head. Battle for Azeroth was so crap that they had to release Classic WoW because they were losing players fast. Now they are updating classic WoW alongside the current WoW to keep players in hence why i said they weren't doing fine. I mean, look at the chart for WoW. It stayed around 2m'ish(3) and only rose due expansion.

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Um... is this supposed to refute my point? Let's put aside that websites and their questionable creditability. 4.7M is still more double 2M, thus WoW—by your own metric—dwarfs FFXIV in numerical popularity. However... did you actually click these links? According to both, WoW sits at a daily log in of 6.4M while FFXIV hovers at 1.78M, respectively. That is neither down much from 7M nor "just shy" of 2M. Seriously... if anything this bolsters my point. With all that said, this site offers no outline of how they calculate data nor whether they're accounting for bots, minimally active accounts and a whole myriad of things most unofficial censuses at least attempt to showcase. So I question the validity.

Considering FFXIV's entire market board is a bot riddled mess and several of those bots have been active since early Stormblood. They aren't doing much of anything. WoW also has substantially more players, as we've established. They'll have a higher bot problem simply do to volume. It's the same argument as "Balmung has the most bad players." Well, yes. It also has the highest population total. I never said WoW lacks a bot problem, or that they necessarily combat it well. Just better than FFXIV considering, well... FFXIV doesn't do anything.

I never said anything about Battle of Azeroth or the overall state of WoW. I simply called into question your assessment of how bad WoW is doing. Put simply, WoW is so dominate, even a complete failure of an expansion still doesn't come close to knocking them off the MMO throne. And they've held it for nearly two decades.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Whelan

When I first started all those years ago, I thought the players would be like they were in other MMOs: elitist, antisocial, and in a constant hurry. I never understood this perspective because I play the game because I enjoy playing with other people and generally find the gameplay/world interesting. It isn't a second job, an identity, or a chore that I feel I have to do.

The more I have played and the more I have made friends in-game, the more I feel that the community in FFXIV, generally, is welcoming, positive, and, if not social, at least polite. Other than a few instances in Party Finder, nearly every player takes the opportunity to respond to chat or emotes and offers patience or guidance for new players. The fact that I get some compliment at least once a week from some random player (for my performance in a duty, my glam, or something else) is testament to that kindness.

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No, I think the community is most definitely elitist, antisocial, and in a constant hurry. They just aren't up front about it. Simple as that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vickii

I think we just have a disconnect. You always ask for proof of things that can’t be proven. I say some players from WoW are elitist in novice network. My ‘proof’ is my personal experience. I have seen players say they played wow then go on to be elitist in novice network. I don’t really know how to prove this to you. Perhaps the burden of proof here should be on you. Show me that not a single elitist in novice network played wow.

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Or you can come back to reality and not make baseless claims! I'm not arguing that elitist jerks exist. They do. But it isn't WoW's fault. Did you ever think the "rot" might have come from within? Because it did. Having played WoW up until recently and this game since ARR launch, I have watched it all unfold. WoW had nothing to do with why people are elitist sometimes. That just comes with the MMO territory. But it's easy to blame big and mean WoW for some people. It makes for an easy scapegoat. That is all that you do is use it as a scapegoat for problems that it had no hand in creating. Want someone or something to blame? Blame the internet for existing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Um... is this supposed to refute my point? Let's put aside that websites and their questionable creditability. 4.7M is still more double 2M, thus WoW—by your own metric—dwarfs FFXIV in numerical popularity. However... did you actually click these links? According to both, WoW sits at a daily log in of 6.4M while FFXIV hovers at 1.78M, respectively. That is neither down much from 7M nor "just shy" of 2M. Seriously... if anything this bolsters my point. With all that said, this site offers no outline of how they calculate data nor whether they're accounting for bots, minimally active accounts and a whole myriad of things most unofficial censuses at least attempt to showcase. So I question the validity.

Considering FFXIV's entire market board is a bot riddled mess and several of those bots have been active since early Stormblood. They aren't doing much of anything. WoW also has substantially more players, as we've established. They'll have a higher bot problem simply do to volume. It's the same argument as "Balmung has the most bad players." Well, yes. It also has the highest population total. I never said WoW lacks a bot problem, or that they necessarily combat it well. Just better than FFXIV considering, well... FFXIV doesn't do anything.

I never said anything about Battle of Azeroth or the overall state of WoW. I simply called into question your assessment of how bad WoW is doing. Put simply, WoW is so dominate, even a complete failure of an expansion still doesn't come close to knocking them off the MMO throne. And they've held it for nearly two decades.

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You're not quite understanding the point here. I could care less about the number of players. You brought that up. I simply replied in tandem. My point that i made was that WoW was not doing as good as it was. In which this is true. Yes, it still holds high over others partially but the point was WoW wasn't doing good as it was.

Also yes, i did read the links i linked. You obviously didn't. Justtt like you linked a reddit post 1+ month ago on FFXIV and a screen rant post on WoW from October last year, L-O-L. MMO population is always updated. As for what it says it's "Estimated" to have 6.4m daily players on WoW but if you actually took the time to look at the graph below, it's currently 4.2m. And you question the validity? But yet you post Reddit and Screen Rant? I'll see myself out.

This game and it's players really taught me to not take my rewards for granted because I'm starting to see some strange things in Duty Finder and Party Finder as time goes by.

Some example include, but are not limited to the following:
- Tanks who don't use defensive cooldowns in large pulls and/or tankbusters
- Tanks who spin enemies around
- Healers who don't use their DPS abilities when there is absolutely no damage taken for a long time
- Healers who fail to even do simple heals
- DPS who don't aoe during big pulls
- DPS who can't even do their simpler parts of the attack rotations
- Party members who use NORMAL quality weapons in EX trials and Savage raids.
- Party members who don't use chat when asked questions or could use help with mechanics, especially in high-end content

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RokkuEkkusu

This game and it's players really taught me to not take my rewards for granted because I'm starting to see some strange things in Duty Finder and Party Finder as time goes by.

Some example include, but are not limited to the following:
- Tanks who spin enemies around

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That one, i can explain. Spinning (or kiting, that works too) allows you, if you catch the right timing and feel for it, allows you to delay the auto attack from enemies to a certain degree, it is a tactic frequently (and even necessary) used my melee dps which allows them to kill some stuff, which they normally aren't capable to, but it is a tactic that is somewhat frowned upon, since it feels like abusing a bug.

Oh, and

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

No, I think the community is most definitely elitist, antisocial, and in a constant hurry. They just aren't up front about it. Simple as that.

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In case you haven't noticed yourself, FFXIV's community is toxic in its own way, which someone here on the forums put up nicely on his signature, altrough i can't come up with the name. "Toxic Casualism", was it how he called it, a fitting name.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Anhra

That one, i can explain. Spinning (or kiting, that works too) allows you, if you catch the right timing and feel for it, allows you to delay the auto attack from enemies to a certain degree, it is a tactic frequently (and even necessary) used my melee dps which allows them to kill some stuff, which they normally aren't capable to, but it is a tactic that is somewhat frowned upon, since it feels like abusing a bug.

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As a tank, I could see it with large dungeon pulls. But most people just stand there, eat the autos, pop a CD or 2 and dodge the AoEs. I'm one of those people. It is more efficient to take it like a champ and not have any AoEs miss because auto damage is pretty easily mitigated. When it comes to dungeon/raid bosses...it does nothing but upset those playing jobs which require using positionals, so I consider anyone doing so to either be clueless or trolling.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OrpheusKappa

(forgot to quote the guy I wanted to quote fml)
You guys probably haven't played WoW in quite a while cause nowadays trade chat is just full of boosting service spam and no casual chatter.

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I play Moon Guard and WRA (hold your stones!!). Just logged off during a conversation about.. well things that would get me forum banned if I described it.


FFXIV's community is fine, and I don't really buy that WoW eclipses FFXIV. If anything I'd say they're full of mostly the same players (as patches and content ebb and flow differently, you can comfortably jump between them without falling behind) in NA, possibly EU. It's actually commendable that 14 maintains such a better sense of community and grace with an obvious overlap. The GMs can be heavy handed, and the TOS can seem silly, but it keeps people from establishing a less than tolerable environment to play in.

I'd rather the silent passive aggression in a much-too-long leveling dungeon than the screaming matches that break out on the regular. Or having your key thrown away because someone decided to leave early because the hunter is using a talent they don't like, wasting 6 minutes to tell you exactly why they think that hunter is terrible, their family should be ashamed, and how their dog doesn't love them. It's just normal to do.

People are also way more receptive to advice in this game. You just have to phrase it like advice and not chastisement. Most of the time... there are some true boneheads in this game. I've seen plenty of people give "advice" that is snippy and condescending. It's easy to do because they know what should be done, and it is the knee-jerk reaction to look down on someone who should OBVIOUSLY know to match de-buff markers with the opposite soak marker, right?

Even single pull tanks can be compelled to wall-to-wall if you encourage them the right way. Sometimes all it takes is phrasing it like "I want to test my healing chops. Want to live dangerously?"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

As a tank, I could see it with large dungeon pulls. But most people just stand there, eat the autos, pop a CD or 2 and dodge the AoEs. I'm one of those people. It is more efficient to take it like a champ and not have any AoEs miss because auto damage is pretty easily mitigated. When it comes to dungeon/raid bosses...it does nothing but upset those playing jobs which require using positionals, so I consider anyone doing so to either be clueless or trolling.

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I forgot to mention that this kind of approach is normally just used within deep dungeon solo runs, where you have to pull and fight enemies one by one anyway (on floor 150+).

As for the matter of kiting, i noticed that it helps healers dish out more dps skills or give extra room for healing. For me it works quite well and healers barely need to throw out heals on me (only in dungeon content, by the way)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

snip

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I'd like to emphasize your point with a little basic math.

WoW has an estimated playerbase of 113,085,582, with 7,520,191 of those being the estimated active playerbase. This comes out to 6.65% of the playerbase being active daily members.
FFXIV has an estimated playerbase of 23,549,199 with 2,237,174 of those being the estimated active playerbase. This comes out to 9.5% of the playerbase being active daily members.

The link that Forte posted showing visualized data for FFXIV has quite a lot of arbitrary caveats in who it considers to be an "active" member - and showing census data from two different sources that count activity in different ways will ALWAYS lead to discrepancies in how this data is produced. From what it seems, ScreenRant collects its data much like MMO-Population does - how many players have an actively log in per day, whereas the Reddit link collected its data and then chunked it down to players who meet very specific criteria - a lot of criteria which does not take in to account newer players, players who do not care to level and only RP/E RP, etc etc etc.

Additionally, both of the links are quite a bit outdated- with WoW's being before the release of Shadowlands and the Reddit one being pre-patch data. When it comes to statistics like this, anything over like a month is quickly going to become outdated data.

(Edit: I'd like to add that the numbers I'm using come straight from the "Game Data" section of each page, and that I did not analyze the graphs because I um... didn't want to. To be fair they'd only further bolster the point being made: WoW is kind of not doing so great. While it's the number 1 MMO for sheer numbers, it's not the best at keeping and retaining a steady percentage of players)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

I'd like to emphasize your point with a little basic math.

WoW has an estimated playerbase of 113,085,582, with 7,520,191 of those being the estimated active playerbase. This comes out to 6.65% of the playerbase being active daily members.
FFXIV has an estimated playerbase of 23,549,199 with 2,237,174 of those being the estimated active playerbase. This comes out to 9.5% of the playerbase being active daily members.

The link that Forte posted showing visualized data for FFXIV has quite a lot of arbitrary caveats in who it considers to be an "active" member - and showing census data from two different sources that count activity in different ways will ALWAYS lead to discrepancies in how this data is produced. From what it seems, ScreenRant collects its data much like MMO-Population does - how many players have an actively log in per day, whereas the Reddit link collected its data and then chunked it down to players who meet very specific criteria - a lot of criteria which does not take in to account newer players, players who do not care to level and only RP/E RP, etc etc etc.

Additionally, both of the links are quite a bit outdated- with WoW's being before the release of Shadowlands and the Reddit one being pre-patch data. When it comes to statistics like this, anything over like a month is quickly going to become outdated data.

(Edit: I'd like to add that the numbers I'm using come straight from the "Game Data" section of each page, and that I did not analyze the graphs because I um... didn't want to. To be fair they'd only further bolster the point being made: WoW is kind of not doing so great. While it's the number 1 MMO for sheer numbers, it's not the best at keeping and retaining a steady percentage of players)

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Poor retention is something applicable to any online game out there really. After the honeymoon period is over almost everyone is gone.

Anyway, I really don't get why WoW is used constantly as an escape goat. The "at least is not as bad as X" excuse makes no sense to me. (Not saying you are doing that MikieTea).

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Originally Posted by Driavna

Poor retention is something applicable to any online game out there really. After the honeymoon period is over almost everyone is gone.

Anyway, I really don't get why WoW is used constantly as an escape goat. The "at least is not as bad as X" excuse makes no sense to me. (Not saying you are doing that MikieTea).

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Oh definitely to that first point! Though to be fair, FFXIV's casual pace does a lot to keep players returning past the release of xpacs, and a steady influx of patches with new content doesn't hurt either! Also, to your second point, I think it's because it's a pretty easy scapegoat. There's a lot that Blizzard as a company does that makes WoW not as enjoyable a game as it could be, though it is slowly improving (the recent level squish was a great first step, but not necessarily the best they could've done). It's the biggest MMORPG out there, and its age kind of means that certain mistakes it makes shouldn't be acceptable, so it's used as kind of the butt of a poor argument. This shouldn't be the case, but unfortunately it is.

Not really much has changed. Before I took my break in 5.2, I had never a single negative experience (yay me!) during any of my mandatory dungeon/trial runs and in leveling roulette, even if I had effed up the "simplest" choreographical mechanics. This would probably have been different if I had unlocked every optional group content and/or would have played it. Heck, even the majority of my Novice Network time was quite enjoyable. I'm by mmo standards a weirdo, though, and live mostly in my own "micro cosmos" ;). Most negativity/bittnerness (doesn't matter if "justified" or not) was mostly while browsing this forums; no offense intended.

Back on topic, I've recently noticed a change in my perception of other crafters

Previously I thought fellow omnicrafters like myself were botters, glamoursmiths or tryhards (I'm in the second category because those glams be expensive! also story :3)

Now I have a new category system: Botters, glamoursmiths, gilwhores or lazy

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I am so EXHAUSTED with dealing with people now. I just remembered why I just play this game solo, why I never bothered to look for a guild, people. Yeah, I'm venting. I've been running groups in Borzja...

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So I had the audacity to try and cluster farm again tonight. This isn't such a great community. They only prove this to me as time goes on.

Probably off-topic, but I'm just venting again. I'd put the details here into the duty finder thread if it was duty finder. Still somewhat relevant to this thread. Read if interested in context, or don't.

Slow going parties for cluster farm. I form one with several people and good Lord what transpires.. I spend a little while on set up, what roles should be played, etc. we agree on one spot. One of the tanks decides to use tank stance on and off, pull far away from the party, blame healers when he dies.. etc. A complete mess. He had killed some of our dps/heals several times doing this. Other tank starts pulling in some random direction, not really doing anything efficiently, but whatever. At least he was bringing them to the party. Apparently when the party was criticizing or trying to help the first tank, this second tank thinks they are criticizing him. I just say lets drop it, "this spot isn't working out" and I say we move somewhere else. The first tank is continuing to argue with the party, but the second tank still thinks everyone is criticizing him. I say "jesus christ" in say, and I guess he took it as me criticizing him along with the party further, and left the party. I had been trying to stay out of it as party lead, I wasn't criticizing anyone. All I was saying prior was the spot wasn't "working out" and to move. It's insane to me.

This isn't the end of it.

I switch to tank, and pull a bit at this different location, but I notice our dps is a bit low, so I offer to switch to dps, and ask the first tank to take over when he gets there. He was already using an essence on his tank, and I wasn't. It was only logical for me to be the one to switch. Apparently, when I asked if he could take over if "I showed him the route", it was taken as me demeaning him - I guess. Because at this point, it looks like he starts to play dumb, and pulls EVERYTHING ELSE. Looks to be trying to wipe the party. I'd guess he was griefing us. At this point, I told the others that were left "I'm done" and just quit out of the instance.

This is what I am talking about with people and this game. This is far from irregular. My God. Unbelievable.

Here we go I see what happened. I just read the chat logs. I had been ignoring the arguing in the chat. The second tank said he had only pulled in a specific zone - I did see him say that and wanted him to go where he was comfortable. The first tank looked to be trying to farm in a whole different way than anyone else in the party was used to, got mad at us, got mad at me for having the party move somewhere else. That looks to be the case. Wow.

I went from being a (nearly) no DPS healer completely clueless about other people's performance to dreading no dps healers and expecting the worst from DF.