The problem with the mentor system

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Originally Posted by EaMett

You can be a mentor in full gear on an unfamiliar class

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On an unfamiliar class 80 lvl, ok.

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Originally Posted by EaMett

and be tunnel visioning so hard you miss mechanics. Not only can this be a thing but I'm pretty sure every mentor and player knows exactly what I'm talking about, first hand.
I personally can't BRD for the life of me. Keeping my eyes on the procs = eating mechanics consistently. I still enjoy playing it and won't stop because some elitist expects a certain level of play out of me because I'm a mentor. (see what I did there)

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If you 're feeling insecure in your class, a good solution would be not to wear the crown, right?

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Originally Posted by SoranRigel

Really?
Ok, let 's go back to the official definition of "mentor":

In connection with this definition (sorry, it 's not "my expectations") I ask the question again: what can these people teach with crowns on their heads if they don 't know the simplest game mechanics?
These people became mentors because the system allows them to do so.
Because they go to farm recommendations to purchase a beautiful badge and winnings.
Not to help.

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Even veteran players make mistakes, you are not making any sense...you realize that right?

I raid savage and even I get hit by random aoes sometimes or forget a mechanic and get hit or die. It doesn't mean I don't know the mechanics normally, but distractions happen, forgetfulness happens, mistakes happen.

If I get hit by a ground AoE does it mean I don't know how to dodge it as a veteran player? No, it just means I was distracted, or I just plain messed up, or I lagged. Plenty of reasons for even veteran players to make mistakes for even simple mechanics. People mess up because we are human and humans are fallible.

Go watch some savage or ultimate videos clears and prog. You'll see even the people doing the hardest content sometimes get hit by things or die by their own mistakes for a lot of different reasons.

Perfection doesn't exist. For anyone. Veteran player or not.

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Originally Posted by SoranRigel

If you 're feeling insecure in your class, a good solution would be not to wear the crown, right?

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Just because a mentor might not be super experienced on a job they are playing doesn't mean they can't help with OTHER jobs that newbies might be playing, or help with knowledge of mechanics in dungeons etc.

They can still help people with many things, so why turn it off?

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Originally Posted by Miste

Even veteran players make mistakes, you are not making any sense...you realize that right?

I raid savage and even I get hit by random aoes sometimes or forget a mechanic and get hit or die. It doesn't mean I don't know the mechanics normally, but distractions happen, forgetfulness happens, mistakes happen.

If I get hit by a ground AoE does it mean I don't know how to dodge it as a veteran player? No, it just means I was distracted, or I just plain messed up, or I lagged. Plenty of reasons for even veteran players to make mistakes for even simple mechanics. People mess up because we are human and humans are fallible.

Go watch some savage or ultimate videos clears and prog. You'll see even the people doing the hardest content sometimes get hit by things or die by their own mistakes for a lot of different reasons.

Perfection doesn't exist. For anyone. Veteran player or not.

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Trying to explain with logic to someone whose arguement was created without any logic doesnt want unfortunately

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Originally Posted by Miste

Even veteran players make mistakes, you are not making any sense...you realize that right?

I raid savage and even I get hit by random aoes sometimes or forget a mechanic and get hit or die. It doesn't mean I don't know the mechanics normally, but distractions happen, forgetfulness happens, mistakes happen.

If I get hit by a ground AoE does it mean I don't know how to dodge it as a veteran player? No, it just means I was distracted, or I just plain messed up, or I lagged. Plenty of reasons for even veteran players to make mistakes for even simple mechanics. People mess up because we are human and humans are fallible.

Go watch some savage or ultimate videos clears and prog. You'll see even the people doing the hardest content sometimes get hit by things or die by their own mistakes for a lot of different reasons.

Perfection doesn't exist. For anyone. Veteran player or not.



Just because a mentor might not be super experienced on a job they are playing doesn't mean they can't help with OTHER jobs that newbies might be playing, or help with knowledge of mechanics in dungeons etc.

They can still help people with many things, so why turn it off?

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A lot of experienced players make mistakes every day: hit other players, mock beginners, rough in chat and at the same time do not make mechanics. Because of forgetfulness, probably.
I agree, we 're all human. But some people in crowns are particularly disgusting.
Unfortunately, they meet too often.

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Originally Posted by Miste

Just because a mentor might not be super experienced on a job they are playing doesn't mean they can't help with OTHER jobs that newbies might be playing, or help with knowledge of mechanics in dungeons etc.

They can still help people with many things, so why turn it off?

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You can also be knowledgeable on the class you're playing, just mechanically challenged on that job. Leveling an Nth job to 80 after not touching it for 2 years, then once at cap learning how to play it again can be challenging for anyone. Again the crown shouldn't mean that you're proficient in everything. Just in enough that you can help people and want to do so.

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

If the issue with the NN is that people think the criteria for mentors aren't the right ones or aren't finding the appropriate mentors, then maybe the solution is to rework the criteria. But I don't think completely burning the Newbie Network and mentoring system to the ground is necessarily the best course, because then sprouts end up without anywhere they can reach out with questions if they don't happen to have a really helpful FC.

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On the one hand, I agree with you, and on the other ...

I saw three MMOs where there was no mentoring system and people asked questions and found help in world chat and in dungeons. SE tried to create a global network for helping newcomers by attracting people who like it. But something is clearly going wrong.

I know that there are good mentors and how they try, but with the expansion of the base of players there are more people who parasitize on the system. They don’t help, they farm either recommendations or a (new trend) craft mentoring for crown, and I personally now see a lot of "mentors" in the dungeons who don’t know the basic rules (don’t stay in AOE, wait until the tank pulls, kill adds as soon as possible).

I hope that in the future the SE will take measures that are not limited by the number of recommendations. The recommendations are not relevant, very subjective and do not reflect anything. People leave groups almost instantly; many of them do not pay attention to the co-players.

What I would like to see in this regard:

1. Replace the icon with something more neutral: a book, glasses, a watering can.
2. Focus on the number of completed dungeons for PVE mentors (2,000 dungeons, for example), completed role quests and completed relevant content.
3. A separate option for reporting on mentors.
4. A working blacklist that will allow you to no longer meet with these "mentors" and other bad players in the roulette groups.

The crown icon is not the problem.


1) Some people are just toxic. Having a crown or not having a crown won't change that.
2) It is too difficult for new people to get in contact with someone who may help them because the Novice Network is invite only (unless you are a returnee).


FF needs a world chat so people can get in contact with other people who may (or may not) help.


Maybe the crown system can be reworked so that you don't just need a certain number of commendations, but you CONTINUALLY need a certain number of commendations. So mentors have to keep working to keep their status. Though that would lead to commendation farming, which can be a hindrance in and of itself.

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Originally Posted by Snowdove

FF needs a world chat so people can get in contact with other people who may (or may not) help.

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Yep, or an open channel for help.

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Originally Posted by RajNish

1. Replace the icon with something more neutral: a book, glasses, a watering can.
2. Focus on the number of completed dungeons for PVE mentors (2,000 dungeons, for example), completed role quests and completed relevant content.
3. A separate option for reporting on mentors.
4. A working blacklist that will allow you to no longer meet with these "mentors" and other bad players in the roulette groups.

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Good options that will help to contain the appetite of toxic players.
Especially the "working blacklist" because, indeed, not only mentors can be toxic.

But 2,000 dungeons can you also to farm?
What do you mean by "relevant content"?

Of course, it is necessary to get rid of any icons that show "higher status."
I 'm talking about a crown and something like that.

And who is to say that only sprouts need help? Why restrict the Novice Network to only sprouts and returnees?


FF seems to go out of its way to isolate people. No method to apply to Free Companies in game, no way to talk with people in the world beyond your local area...

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Originally Posted by SoranRigel

But 2,000 dungeons can you also to farm?

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This will require many hours of play. Even if someone decides to farm 50's Ex's uncync every day for many hours... No one will do this for the the watering can icon, glasses or book. Plus, one way or another, having completed 2000 dungeons, these people will understand the basic mechanics.

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Originally Posted by SoranRigel

What do you mean by "relevant content"?

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ARR, Heavensward, Stormblood and Shadowbringers, including dungeons and trials, same as in the current system.

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Originally Posted by Snowdove

And who is to say that only sprouts need help? Why restrict the Novice Network to only sprouts and returnees?
FF seems to go out of its way to isolate people. No method to apply to Free Companies in game, no way to talk with people in the world beyond your local area...

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We don't need a crown or a special network to help others.
This is really strange in FFXIV, because any member of the group, in theory, should be willing to help. This is in our common interest. So FFXIV is essentially the most antisocial game I've ever played. This is very sad.

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Originally Posted by Miste

Just because a mentor might not be super experienced on a job they are playing doesn't mean they can't help with OTHER jobs that newbies might be playing, or help with knowledge of mechanics in dungeons etc.

They can still help people with many things, so why turn it off?

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I mean, they can also help people without having the crown on too? I only have mine on when I do my mentor roulettes because it slaps it on me, and I still help people when I don't have the crown on otherwise.

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Originally Posted by EaMett

You can be a mentor in full gear on an unfamiliar class and be tunnel visioning so hard you miss mechanics. Not only can this be a thing but I'm pretty sure every mentor and player knows exactly what I'm talking about, first hand.

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^This, since as someone who used a lot of time to max all classes to 80, I still don't know all of them better than basics of the class. I don't have full rotation or how to play on lvl80 content as that class to the full potential. For example, I play casters 99,9% of the time, mostly healers. I know how all those 6 work and to play them to their max potential on 80. But I can't wrap my head around any of the melee classes no matter how I smack a dummy, but it's fine since everyone can have a main class right? Even mentors. Me having all to 80 doesn't mean I know all the jobs perfectly and will put out the best dps no matter what class I play, it means, I had time in my hand and I like leveling classes. I don't have to know all them, only the ones I play more than often. But I can still go mess around in casual content as a melee and try my best to do well, but I can't be held against a wall and say ''You're a mentor why are you so bad at samurai???''. Everyone will play random classes to mix things up every once in a while, even mentors. They aren't perfect 100% of the time and on all classes they max out, and that is not what they agree on either. Being an example doesn't mean ''Be 100% perfect and know your rotation from start to finish no mistakes''.
Let mentors make mistakes, they're human too, just like everyone else. And before this is taken out of context, I don't mean mistakes as trying to sabotage or purposefully ruin the duty.

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Originally Posted by Neoom

^This, since as someone who used a lot of time to max all classes to 80, I still don't know all of them better than basics of the class. I don't have full rotation or how to play on lvl80 content as that class to the full potential. For example, I play casters 99,9% of the time, mostly healers. I know how all those 6 work and to play them to their max potential on 80. But I can't wrap my head around any of the melee classes no matter how I smack a dummy, but it's fine since everyone can have a main class right? Even mentors. Me having all to 80 doesn't mean I know all the jobs perfectly and will put out the best dps no matter what class I play, it means, I had time in my hand and I like leveling classes. I don't have to know all them, only the ones I play more than often. But I can still go mess around in casual content as a melee and try my best to do well, but I can't be held against a wall and say ''You're a mentor why are you so bad at samurai???''. Everyone will play random classes to mix things up every once in a while, even mentors. They aren't perfect 100% of the time and on all classes they max out, and that is not what they agree on either. Being an example doesn't mean ''Be 100% perfect and know your rotation from start to finish no mistakes''.
Let mentors make mistakes, they're human too, just like everyone else. And before this is taken out of context, I don't mean mistakes as trying to sabotage or purposefully ruin the duty.

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Originally Posted by SoranRigel

If you 're feeling insecure in your class, a good solution would be not to wear the crown, right?

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Otherwise it turns out that mentors should not know mechanics, should not know their class - they do not owe anything to anyone at all. But the crown is for some reason worn.

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Originally Posted by SoranRigel

Otherwise it turns out that mentors should not know mechanics, should not know their class - they do not owe anything to anyone at all. But the crown is for some reason worn.

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yes that is correct, the only thing mentors need is the will to help people, such as telling them that game has limitbreaks or when they get the first mout.

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Originally Posted by RyuSaarva

yes that is correct, the only thing mentors need is the will to help people, such as telling them that game has limitbreaks or when they get the first mout.

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In that case, these measures -

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Originally Posted by RajNish

1. Replace the icon with something more neutral: a book, glasses, a watering can.
2. Focus on the number of completed dungeons for PVE mentors (2,000 dungeons, for example), completed role quests and completed relevant content.
3. A separate option for reporting on mentors.
4. A working blacklist that will allow you to no longer meet with these "mentors" and other bad players in the roulette groups.

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- are really needed.
It is unlikely that people who have passed over 2,000 dungeons will be unsure of mechanics, and the button of complaint against the mentor, who was not ashamed to wear the crown insulting newbies and not performing their obligations, will be a good "cold shower."
'Сause by accepting the agreement on what the duties of a mentor are, the player assumes obligations.
And the words that mentors are not obliged to anyone, unfortunately, do not work.

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Originally Posted by Neoom

They aren't perfect 100% of the time and on all classes they max out, and that is not what they agree on either. Being an example doesn't mean ''Be 100% perfect and know your rotation from start to finish no mistakes''.
Let mentors make mistakes, they're human too, just like everyone else.

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Since you missed this I'm gonna quote myself :)
Even if I don't know how to play melee doesn't mean I can't help with casters, my help is still help even if I'm not playing the class in the current duty, it doesn't remove my knowledge just because I want to try out different classes sometimes. Mentor's can learn new things too, they can learn new classes too and can't be perfect from the start. But while they're learning they can still help with other classes/dungeons/anything help is needed in.
I can see mentors will never be good enough for you since you expect 100% perfection that can only be achieved with an AI and maybe that's mentors need to be then, humans can't stop making mistakes even if they're ''the elite helpers'' like you name them.

I'll give Dungeon/Trial or Raid advice if I see problems reoccurring. If I see someone make mistakes playing their Job I'll give advice. But the moment I get a response that says "Don't tell me how to play my job" I just let them make mistakes at that point.

More often than not you get the "Don't tell me how to play" response or you get absolutely nothing in return. Very rarely do you get a "Oh cool I didn't know that thanks!" reply.

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Originally Posted by Neoom

But while they're learning they can still help with other classes/dungeons/anything help is needed in.

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No one asks mentors to be perfect. Enough basic mechanics, which is completely obvious. Don’t stay in AOE, wait until the tank pulls, kill adds as soon as possible if needed. And this does not apply to accidental mistakes. But I have seen many times how the people with the crown do the exact opposite. I don’t know for what reason, but it doesn’t seem like a good game, instead they make more problems for group.

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Originally Posted by seraf

I'll give Dungeon/Trial or Raid advice if I see problems reoccurring. If I see someone make mistakes playing their Job I'll give advice. But the moment I get a response that says "Don't tell me how to play my job" I just let them make mistakes at that point.

More often than not you get the "Don't tell me how to play" response or you get absolutely nothing in return. Very rarely do you get a "Oh cool I didn't know that thanks!" reply.

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I am not a mentor, but I also try to help if I see problems. Some people refuse, some thanks. I don't really care about that, to be honest. If someone listened and we finished the dungeon well, everything is okay. If not ... I will do my best to finish the with minimal losses. This is a game, so a player’s refusal to take advice does not upset me too much.

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Originally Posted by Neoom

Since you missed this I'm gonna quote myself :)
Even if I don't know how to play melee doesn't mean I can't help with casters, my help is still help even if I'm not playing the class in the current duty, it doesn't remove my knowledge just because I want to try out different classes sometimes. Mentor's can learn new things too, they can learn new classes too and can't be perfect from the start. But while they're learning they can still help with other classes/dungeons/anything help is needed in.
I can see mentors will never be good enough for you since you expect 100% perfection that can only be achieved with an AI and maybe that's mentors need to be then, humans can't stop making mistakes even if they're ''the elite helpers'' like you name them.

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Let me give ya some help. See that 2000 unsynced content they proposed as a great idea that would stop all those unworthy (for them at least) People. Call me a magician but thats actually easier than getting to 1500 commends since they said it could be done unsynced and ofc it doesnt help with learning stuff to teach like you know actually having to interact with People while doing content you havent done or havent nailed to improve yourself. Man they should pay mentors at this point mentors are ip support without the pay if i have to deal with all this Bull and still keep a smiling face. I love the fact the if a mentor is good its to be expected but if he does a sliver of a mistake he is supposed to be burned to the stake. In the end whatever a mentor does he is at the wrong and ofc People only remember the really bad mentors and so they want to kill all of them. Sure make a New symbol cant w8 for the part 2 of this cause i guarantee that this wont stop even with the changes symbol

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Originally Posted by RajNish

No one asks mentors to be perfect. Enough basic mechanics, which is completely obvious. Don’t stay in AOE, wait until the tank pulls, kill adds as soon as possible if needed. And this does not apply to accidental mistakes. But I have seen many times how the people with the crown do the exact opposite. I don’t know for what reason, but it doesn’t seem like a good game, instead they make more problems for group.

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I did say this in my full message

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Originally Posted by Neoom

Let mentors make mistakes, they're human too, just like everyone else. And before this is taken out of context, I don't mean mistakes as trying to sabotage or purposefully ruin the duty.

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I don't mean mentors can do all the mistakes they can and never looked at twice, but I mean silly mistakes happen, people can lag, space out I for one have fps drops so I most likely make ''mistakes'' when my game freezes. Doesn't mean it would make me a bad mentor. But if do sabotage the run by stacking aoes, turning the cleaving boss to the party etc. cause a wipe, it doesn't count as a mistake. Mistakes are human, but sabotaging and ruining the run on purpose isn't a mistake. And yes I've seen mentors and non mentors too do the latter for what ever reasoning (or none at all). I don't know if the 2000 duties/dungeons is enough to make sure the people who do mess up the runs on purpose not make it to a mentor, it only means you play a lot, not how you play so *shrug*
I'm not against the change ideas, but imo there needs to be something way different than just a lot of play time to make it to mentor since it won't tell anything of your play style or if you even remember the duties you have done. Maybe the ''reach X amount of commendations a week'' thing could work, even if it leads to fishing comms. I have no good ideas how to fox the system, I'm not so creative.

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Originally Posted by HeulGDarian

Let me give ya some help. See that 2000 unsynced content they proposed as a great idea

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Do not misinterpret my words, please. I said exactly the following:

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2. Focus on the number of completed dungeons for PVE mentors (2,000 dungeons, for example), completed role quests and completed relevant content.

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Even if someone decides to farm 50's Ex's uncync every day for many hours... No one will do this for the the watering can icon, glasses or book.

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Unfortunately, you have missed the words "relevant content".

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Originally Posted by Neoom

I don't know if the 2000 duties/dungeons is enough to make sure the people who do mess up the runs on purpose not make it to a mentor, it only means you play a lot, not how you play so *shrug*

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If can be 2,000 roulette dungeons and trials, or just not uncynced.

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Originally Posted by Neoom

I'm not against the change ideas, but imo there needs to be something way different than just a lot of play time to make it to mentor since it won't tell anything of your play style or if you even remember the duties you have done. Maybe the ''reach X amount of commendations a week'' thing could work, even if it leads to fishing comms. I have no good ideas how to fox the system, I'm not so creative.

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There should be a working "black list" as an effective way to reduce the number of conflict situations.
It will affect all players, not just mentors. It will help in the future to exclude from your duties groups including those players with whom you "did not agree in the game style": those who unwrap a boss on you, wipes your group, etc.

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Originally Posted by SoranRigel

There should be a working "black list" as an effective way to reduce the number of conflict situations.
It will affect all players, not just mentors. It will help in the future to exclude from your duties groups including those players with whom you "did not agree in the game style": those who unwrap a boss on you, wipes your group, etc.

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Blacklist that works better would be a savior to the game. Yes, it's not the worst, I have not met most of the people on my blacklist again after I put them there, but some I still have in my duties so it clearly needs some work to be fully functional. It's also not the fix to the whole problem, but it would help since some problems are just different play styles that clash instead of a ''real'' problem (as in something that needs reporting or a mentor having to be demoted(?) from the crown)

I feel like if we need people to earn the mentor status and represent people who are good mentors or are helpful then the commendation system is not fit for purpose. Comms are awarded for a whole plethora of and completely arbitrary reasons.

A "mentor recommendation" system could be better, people can recommend people for mentor status at the end of an instance. No rewards or carrots on a stick for people to pick somebody to recommend at the end, but if they found someone helpful they may choose to recommend them.

After a certain number of recommendations then you get awarded with the status.

It's not flawless, but I think it is more reliable than basing it around comms. I used to have the mentor status, but when I realised its meaningless, also the novice network has always been pretty toxic when I've been in there and instead just help people when they need it.

I'm honestly not really a fan of the commendation system being used as a metric because it's just a system that's exclusive for tanks and healers and dps only occasionally get commended, plus you ONLY get commendations when playing with randoms through the duty finder system, so if you have 100 clears of Hades, Titania, and Innocence, and 20+ clears of each savage raid you get literally nothing for it while the person with 300 clears of random normal mode content on a healer or tank will probably have picked up 200-300 commendations for it.

Obviously you don't need to do extreme or savage content to be a good mentor, but if I wanted someone to give me tanking advice and had to choose between someone who's been clearing savage content since Heavensward but rarely does roulettes because they don't need the rewards, or someone with 5000 commendations but hasn't touched a single extreme trial or savage raid, I'll go with the savage clearer.

Heck I would rather they went with a point system where for instance, leveling dungeons are 1 point, 50/60/70 dungeons are 2, level 80 content is 3 points, raids are worth 2 points, trials are worth 2 points, extreme trials are worth 4, savage clears are worth 10 points, ultimates are worth 30 points, etc and you just need x points instead of commendations.

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Originally Posted by Dogempire

I'm honestly not really a fan of the commendation system being used as a metric because it's just a system that's exclusive for tanks and healers and dps only occasionally get commended, plus you ONLY get commendations when playing with randoms through the duty finder system, so if you have 100 clears of Hades, Titania, and Innocence, and 20+ clears of each savage raid you get literally nothing for it while the person with 300 clears of random normal mode content on a healer or tank will probably have picked up 200-300 commendations for it.

Obviously you don't need to do extreme or savage content to be a good mentor, but if I wanted someone to give me tanking advice and had to choose between someone who's been clearing savage content since Heavensward but rarely does roulettes because they don't need the rewards, or someone with 5000 commendations but hasn't touched a single extreme trial or savage raid, I'll go with the savage clearer.

Heck I would rather they went with a point system where for instance, leveling dungeons are 1 point, 50/60/70 dungeons are 2, level 80 content is 3 points, raids are worth 2 points, trials are worth 2 points, extreme trials are worth 4, savage clears are worth 10 points, ultimates are worth 30 points, etc and you just need x points instead of commendations.

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I like this idea its more relevant to experienced mentors vs. grind mentors.

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Originally Posted by RajNish

Do not misinterpret my words, please. I said exactly the following:


Unfortunately, you have missed the words "relevant content".



If can be 2,000 roulette dungeons and trials, or just not uncynced.

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Besides the fact that you did say as you pointed out farmed unync ex
Relevant content is basicly savage and super savage oh and ex for like one Day but here lies a problem Relevant is extremely arbitary per individual to a sprout relevant is doing his msq to a hardcore player savage super savage to crafter the market board etc etc etc whats a mentors relevant content the mentor rlt?

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Originally Posted by HeulGDarian

Relevant content is basicly savage and super savage oh and ex for like one Day but here lies a problem Relevant is extremely arbitary per individual to a sprout relevant is doing his msq to a hardcore player savage super savage to crafter the market board etc etc etc whats a mentors relevant content the mentor rlt?

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To be honest, I don’t understand what you are talking about. Making a savage is not necessary to help beginners with the basics of the game.

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Originally Posted by RajNish

If can be 2,000 roulette dungeons and trials, or just not uncynced.

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Well if it's so unsynced runs do not count, then yes it would most likely work somewhat better. I don't know did you mention about the unsync or did I just read past it, sorry if I did tired eyes miss some stuff ^^''

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Originally Posted by Neoom

Well if it's so unsynced runs do not count, then yes it would most likely work somewhat better. I don't know did you mention about the unsync or did I just read past it, sorry if I did tired eyes miss some stuff ^^''

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I mentioned non-synchronization only in the context of the fact that the "farmers" will not spend time on this for the sake of the book or watering can icons. Actually a working option - to take into account activities in the same way as with gaining experience points, when unsynchronized dungeons, trials, raids are not counted. Whereas synchronized group activities, including roulette, will be counted. I think that this method is more suitable than a recommendation system.

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Originally Posted by RajNish

I mentioned non-synchronization only in the context of the fact that the "farmers" will not spend time on this for the sake of the book or watering can icons. Actually a working option - to take into account activities in the same way as with gaining experience points, when unsynchronized dungeons, trials, raids are not counted. Whereas synchronized group activities, including roulette, will be counted. I think that this method is more suitable than a recommendation system.

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Yeah sorry I missed some stuff, but thanks for the clarification ^^ But I agree on the experience point system, it would make sure you actually do the duties in a party not just unsync stuff for the sake of being a mentor. Even if it wouldn't fix the problem 100% I think it could harvest a lot of bad ones out from the system.

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Originally Posted by RajNish

To be honest, I don’t understand what you are talking about. Making a savage is not necessary to help beginners with the basics of the game.

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I said that relevant content is widely used when People talk about savage.
Relevant though is something arbitary
Because different People do different stuff like
A crafter does crafting content and sells on the marketboard
A gatherer simply gathers stuff to sell
Usually crafters are also gatherers
A fisher is completely different from the 2 others cause he has a scavenger Hunt mini game
What about pvpers PvP isnt even on the list
Gold saucer players for as much of a niche there are People Who actually love chocobo racing triple triad and verminion
There are hardcore players savage and raids as relevant content
Blu mage players are giving some life to the old raids
Eureka/BA there are still discords doing them
Furnishing/housing
Hunting
Mount/minion gathering
And even freaking gardening
This is why they didnt make stuff be even harder it is impossible for a small team to know everything and as sorry as i am that you had a bad experience i Will defend the fact that the majority isnt toxic especially when some of the ideas are as pepega as having to deal with 8000> People before getting access to helpfull tools such as mentor rlt and a symbol that sprout can ask question. Can kill novice network though idc they were rude >:(

So maybe this is just me and the way I think, but every time I've had a negative experience with another player, I genuinely can't remember whether or not they were a mentor, I never checked or felt it was important to remember. I'm not sure why when someone is being toxic, you're mad at the mentor system and not the actual person.

I don't really see how the fact someone has a crown over their head is what turns them into a bad person. They were likely going to do that either way, crown or not, mentor or not. Do I think the fact they can have a crown over their head is a way to boost their ego and make them feel superior? Yes. Do I think these bad mentors can hurt the reputation of the good ones? Also yes. I just don't see how it's a direct cause for the behavior and therefore a reason to shut it down. Do I think it could use some changes to help circumvent these problems? Yes.

Speaking as a more recent player to the game, joining towards the end of stormblood, I have two issues with this system in general, one with the novice network and the other with the icons. Starting with the icons, there's not a very easy way to tell what any of them mean, much less the crown. The ability to set your online status isn't very easily obvious at first which is where you find out what the bulk of them mean (i spent a long time wondering what they all meant as well). The crown is less obvious as it's not there, and actually hidden under an FAQ at the novice network npc, which is easily missable. (I can't check to verify this right now so please correct me if I'm wrong.) I remember being a baby sprout, I was actually afraid of people with the icon as I associated it as a symbol of authority or the elite, or a "pro," someone I would interpret as having no patience for a noob.

For this reason I would love the idea of something like a watering can, I think it appears much more friendly to newer players and makes more sense/is easier to put two and two together (I have a sprout next to my name, they have a watering can over a sprout, they must be here to help me). Still not a perfect solution to the fact some people may not be able to deduce that and the NN npc is somewhat out of the way, but still. Not only do I think this would be beneficial for new players, it would be beneficial for the good mentors as well. Imo, I don't think as many of the toxic superiority complex mentors would bother with the icon if it was that, therefore giving mentors in general a better reputation, I'm sure that's up to debate though. Just what I think, anyway.

Like I personally would be more comfortable using the status if it was that not only because of the bad associations I have with the crown, but because of the stigma that surrounds mentors. I would love to be easily identifiable as someone who is there to help, but I don't feel I have that option as I know having a crown comes with a bad rep + I don't like the actual ideas I associate with a crown in a vacuum.

My other issue is with the novice network, mainly what others have said already: It's invite only. Not only that, but you have the option to automatically decline all future invites, without a way to reverse this option afaik. I got randomly invited to it at some point with no prior warning, a big popup just appears on your screen, and I felt immediately pressured by this and wanted to decline this as fast as possible since I was very socially anxious at the time. I'd have much preferred the game telling me of it's existence if its own volition giving me the option to think about it and work up the nerve to join when I'm ready. I think that would go a long way to making it more accessible to players in general but especially the anxious ones (since you wouldn't even have to ask for an invite.)

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Originally Posted by Neoom

Even if it wouldn't fix the problem 100% I think it could harvest a lot of bad ones out from the system.

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Yep, I hope it will work better.

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Originally Posted by HeulGDarian

Relevant though is something arbitary

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As I said before for PvE mentors it can be following:

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Originally Posted by RajNish

ARR, Heavensward, Stormblood and Shadowbringers, including dungeons and trials, same as in the current system.

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I do not know what can be offered to crafters and gatherers, because I am not involved in crafting. However, I see now that many achieve the title of craft mentor, raising one crafter and one gatherer to 80 and crafting / gathering 100/300 collectibles, respectively. After the SE raised the requirements to 1,500 recommendations, most people began to farm the crown icon through gathering and crafting, and I think this is a bad trend. I doubt that all these people will rush to help the new player, telling him the details and features of crafting / gathering.

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Originally Posted by SoranRigel

In that case, these measures -

- are really needed.
It is unlikely that people who have passed over 2,000 dungeons will be unsure of mechanics, and the button of complaint against the mentor, who was not ashamed to wear the crown insulting newbies and not performing their obligations, will be a good "cold shower."
'Сause by accepting the agreement on what the duties of a mentor are, the player assumes obligations.
And the words that mentors are not obliged to anyone, unfortunately, do not work.

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Square does not know how to make blacklisted people not appear in duties, personally I have never blacklisted anyone who was not RMT so if you meet so many people who deserve to be blacklisted, I think something is wrong about you and not the others.

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Originally Posted by SoranRigel

On an unfamiliar class 80 lvl, ok.

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It's very easy in a game like this one where you can level without half of your skills. If your roulette luck is poor you might never see content above 70 until you actually hit the cap.

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Originally Posted by RajNish

2. Focus on the number of completed dungeons for PVE mentors (2,000 dungeons, for example), completed role quests and completed relevant content.

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Obtaining mentor status is already more of a slog than trying to meet some kind of qualification. Eventually, anyone will hit the comm and dungeon requirements. The same would be the case no matter how high you put the requirement and remember that the mentor mount already requires 2000 mentor roulette runs. I don't think people will be scared away from an exclusive icon by 2000 dungeon runs.

Getting mentor should be more about willingness to help and ability than just having enough time in the game.

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Originally Posted by Dogempire

Heck I would rather they went with a point system where for instance, leveling dungeons are 1 point, 50/60/70 dungeons are 2, level 80 content is 3 points, raids are worth 2 points, trials are worth 2 points, extreme trials are worth 4, savage clears are worth 10 points, ultimates are worth 30 points, etc and you just need x points instead of commendations.

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Something like this makes more sense to me than comms, though anyone can still get it eventually as they play more content. I wonder how much work it would take to have a qualification trial for each role at the Smith. Go through a short but moderately challenging battle as a tank, as a healer, and then as a DPS. This would at least try to measure player ability directly and it wouldn't lock out good mentors just because they happened to learn the game quickly.

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Originally Posted by RajNish

2. Focus on the number of completed dungeons for PVE mentors (2,000 dungeons, for example), completed role quests and completed relevant content.

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Funny thing about this. I have over 300 days of playtime and have not done 2000 dungeons/trials. I do have 3300 commendations, though, so I guess I'm set for the next time they raise that, at least.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Funny thing about this. I have over 300 days of playtime and have not done 2000 dungeons/trials. I do have 3300 commendations, though, so I guess I'm set for the next time they raise that, at least.

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I have close to 650 days of playtime, 4000 commendations (I didn't do many dungeons with all pugs for most of 2.x, 3.x, or 4.x, and I leave immediately ) and almost 10000 instanced duties completed.

I definitely meet any requirements they can possibly have for mentor, yet, with the amount of times people have been unresponsive to even the most basic mechanic advice before a fight starts, I rarely offer advice anymore unless people actively use chat.