Male Viera (BunBros) - We Want Them - With Heels!

male viera look so cool

I know the lore mentions male miqo'te being extremely rare compared to females (and solitary to boot, for Keeper lore), but can someone remind me what was the lore reasoning behind the lack of female Roegadyn pre-ARR? Especially since I see them a lot both in and out of MSQ.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

I think if the lore for any race in any setting involves institutionalized sexism with a 100% compliance rate, it's just kind of fundamentally weird and unrealistic. Any tradition, no matter how old/noble/whatever, will always have outliers emerge as a natural byproduct of self-determination. It's how society develops to begin with.

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In fairness, in the case of this particular tradition, 100% compliance is pretty enforceable. I have little doubt that a male pops up every now and then who resents the status quo - but what is he going to do? Because males are born infrequently, he may well be the only one in the village.

Once he's forced out of the village, finding allies of the same mindset could be very difficult, both because Viera males make a point of keeping themselves hidden and also because most likely accept their situation.

Perhaps once every century or so, the stars align and a handful of disgruntled males manage to ally and make an attack on the village - either an "attack" in the form of peacefully petitioning for change, or actual force of arms, or one then the other - but there's still a LOT more living in the village than were able to organize an attack, so those assaults are likely easily repelled.

Fortunately, we know that disgruntled Viera males DO have an outlet: They can leave their traditions behind, and go to live in the outsiders' cities. They just can't go back to the village.

The only way I could see a men's rights initiative gaining any traction within the village itself is if the solitary rebel male living there at the time had a lot of female allies. Perhaps if he was popular and charismatic while still gender indeterminate, and made a wide network of friends. Apart from that, the all-female village winds up being kind of an echo chamber when it comes to tradition...

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

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The Nu Mou seem to share the Rak'tika Greatwood with one of the Viera clans. It's a bit of an assumption for now, but I don't think it would be too absurd for a disgruntled male Viera to choose life with other forest dwellers rather than abandoning the Wood and Word entirely. Assuming they'd take these Viera males at all, that is.

That aside, I think leaving the Wood is the point Fenral was trying to make. You can't really force change in these Viera cultures when there are so few males, sure, but leaving counts as non-compliance. Living with Nu Mou and not being a Wood Warder would count as non-compliance. I think he's trying to say that it doesn't make sense for 100% of the men to undeniably be okay with the state of things, but not necessarily that they would try to force a change so they can coexist.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Fortunately, we know that disgruntled Viera males DO have an outlet: They can leave their traditions behind, and go to live in the outsiders' cities. They just can't go back to the village.

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Great post, but you actually read way to much into what I was saying. The simple fact of the matter is that there are no male city Viera, at least according to the Dramaturge. All I was getting at was that, for that to be true, 100% of all male Viera had to conform to societal norms in regards to both staying out of the village and also never leaving the Wood, when there realistically should be at least some outliers.

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Originally Posted by WhiteArchmage

I know the lore mentions male miqo'te being extremely rare compared to females (and solitary to boot, for Keeper lore), but can someone remind me what was the lore reasoning behind the lack of female Roegadyn pre-ARR? Especially since I see them a lot both in and out of MSQ.

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Honestly, there never even really was a reason for the female roe to not appear, other than the Galka having been genderlocked in FFXI. They never tried to establish lore for that one before it got changed. So perhaps it's a bit less of a good example than the Miqo.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

Great post, but you actually read way to much into what I was saying. The simple fact of the matter is that there are no male city Viera, at least according to the Dramaturge. All I was getting at was that, for that to be true, 100% of all male Viera had to conform to societal norms in regards to both staying out of the village and also never leaving the Wood, when there realistically should be at least some outliers.

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Sure, possibly. Plausibly.

But would there be enough to constitute them being playable? I'm not so sure.

While it was said male Miqo'te aren't seen often, their lifestyle lends itself to vagrancy, so having one be an adventurer isn't out of the question. There was never a reason female Roegadyn and Hyur Highlanders weren't playable - maybe they just didn't think enough people would play them to justify it, maybe they weren't due until next Tuesday (and then the staff reshuffling Calamity happened).

Male Viera, on the other hand, supposedly are never seen outside of their home forests; while there may be outliers who don't conform to their societal expectations, they'd be so rare you'd be hard-pressed to find one, ever - there simply wouldn't be enough to constitute them being a playable option. In my opinion.

Again, I hold to the belief that things aren't true until we know they are - and as all races have playable males and females (and the debacle that would ensue otherwise), I seriously doubt male Viera won't be a thing regardless of what a bit of internal data derived from a bug shows (and what the lore supports). I'd be more surprised if they weren't playable (and extremely amused - this game really needs to betray my expectations more to keep itself entertaining), but I honestly don't see that happening purely based on the outrage that would result if it did.

Still no Moriarty. Month lapses in a couple days; maybe I'll have some luck with March's tickets.

150+ F2P Orbs (~2 months worth of saving) into L-Roy's banner; no 5*s despite an 8% base rate that rises as you go without one. (Currently at 11.5%)

Feels bad, man.

Is it Sunday yet, so my group can finish out D&D heist campaign? I want - no, at this point, need - to make that Barbarian replacement character. My considerable rage escalates...

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Originally Posted by Thefates

Honestly, there never even really was a reason for the female roe to not appear, other than the Galka having been genderlocked in FFXI. They never tried to establish lore for that one before it got changed. So perhaps it's a bit less of a good example than the Miqo.

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Didn't people think Merlwyb was some weird mutant elezen back in 1.X because she was the only female roe?

Something Tanaka wanted very early on in development was for people to be able to transfer their XI character data to XIV and have it be a direct sequel, and considering what a mess the development of 1.0 was, I wouldn't be surprised if that fed into why they were male only until 2.0.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

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Even one male Viera being disgruntled by the way things are is enough to constitute them being playable. The player/WoL is already a statistical anomally. They're special. That ONE Viera male is US. What are the chances that a Raen from Hingashi happens to be Hydaelyn's chosen in Eorzea as well as one of less than 10 WHMs alive and a number of other odd statistical things?

I can understand the hesitation to believe they'll be playable (maybe they won't be), but we should be past the statistics and lore excuses by now. We're at a point in this game where those are very poor excuses for gender-locked races when we all know it's because wah wah I was too uncomfortable to model a man in bunny lingerie.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

Didn't people think Merlwyb was some weird mutant elezen back in 1.X because she was the only female roe?

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Having only played starting from ARR, and in Limsa which is full of Roegadyn of both genders, I was still initially confused by Merlwyb. She doesn't look like a Roegadyn because of her skin colour (how does she manage to be the only non-green Roegadyn in the city?), but couldn't be an Elezen because she had 'human' ears, and was also distinctly non-Hyuran. I only deduced she was Roegadyn because of her name.

(Just wondering though - would she have been using a modified Elezen model back in 1.0, if the female Roegadyn model didn't exist yet? That would explain the "mutant Elezen" assumption more, if she was using their stance and emotes. And possibly her unusually human skintone as well.)

That's a good guess. It's like why Minfilia and Yda/Lyse have Midlander models even though they are Highlanders.

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Originally Posted by Tabbs

Even one male Viera being disgruntled by the way things are is enough to constitute them being playable. The player/WoL is already a statistical anomally. They're special. That ONE Viera male is US. What are the chances that a Raen from Hingashi happens to be Hydaelyn's chosen in Eorzea as well as one of less than 10 WHMs alive and a number of other odd statistical things?

I can understand the hesitation to believe they'll be playable (maybe they won't be), but we should be past the statistics and lore excuses by now. We're at a point in this game where those are very poor excuses for gender-locked races when we all know it's because wah wah I was too uncomfortable to model a man in bunny lingerie.

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Yeah.

We may well not get male Viera.

But if we do, the lore will be an excuse, not the actual reason we don't get them. Because they could have written the lore another way.

If we get something else, it will be for some out of story reason. Be that because Yoshi P is weirded out by male bunnies, wanting to market '2 new races' with half the work that would normally take, or some other reason. We didn't get this male viera lore until 4.5. Which was long after they would have finalized plans for expansion races. Their hands are not tied by the lore here.

The lore is a possible excuse (since they can write the lore however they like), but remember that the Viera aren't original - they were in Ivalice first and exist as near-literal transplants from that setting. (Hell, an adaptation of Ivalice itself was grafted on!) Therefore the males being a rare commodity is to be expected... it's not like it's a new concept for the race or anything.

Again, I cannot stress how apathetic I am to the whole issue - I'm unconcerned with the Viera in the first place. Whatever the developers and writers decide to do is their creative decision or bound by previous Viera lore... but given there are already plenty of attractive male PC options, I seriously doubt they wouldn't add male Viera because it "weirds them out."

For the record I don't agree with gender-locked races either... but whether it's due to being bound by previous Viera lore or simply a creative decision, I can respect the choice not to have playable male Viera. It's a fantasy setting - things won't necessarily be realistic by definition. (Were things this uproarious when Viera were first introduced? Their society's been blatantly sexist all along...)

The existence of one iconoclastic male Viera doesn't necessitate their playability - remember that while your PC is in their own story the one and only Warrior of Light, there is a whole guild of other adventurers, which the other PCs presumably belong to. Given there will be lots of other male Viera PCs, the "special snowflake iconoclast" narrative doesn't really hold up... (and the Au Ra of both clans, at least, have the excuse of being refugees from Imperial attacks...)

Managed to get L - Roy and SUBARASHI! Time to start saving up again...

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Again, I cannot stress how apathetic I am to the whole issue - I'm unconcerned with the Viera in the first place. Whatever the developers and writers decide to do is their creative decision or bound by previous Viera lore... but given there are already plenty of attractive male PC options, I seriously doubt they wouldn't add male Viera because it "weirds them out."

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They literally admitted to the bunny suit taking so long to be made available for males because their male designers were too uncomfortable working on it, but go off I guess. The same logic would easily apply here.

And no, the lore can't be an excuse here. It doesnt matter if it's a pre-existing race, the lore was remade for 14. We are still IN 14. If the lore doesnt count anywhere else, it doesnt count here either. Its extremely contrarian logic to play lore excuses for Viera.

Other adventurers are not WHMs or Viera or Auri, despite what they chose and what you see. The lore literally states that there are only a handful of them, and yet we see a WHM or Au Ra every other full party. The special snowflake idea absolutely holds up. The other adventurers arent special the way the lore sees it.

I highly suspect they decided it "wasn't their call" with regards to male Viera and decided to stay true to their original incarnations elsewhere in the series, player demand be damned. But part of me also thinks that they may do male Viera and female [REDACTED] for the next expansion after the inevitable backlash.


Or, possibly, they were working on another male/female race and got a head start on female Viera thanks to Fran's inclusion in RTI, and decided to stagger the releases as a compromise. But that's just me guessing based on my limited experience in software development. I could be way off there.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Managed to get L - Roy and SUBARASHI! Time to start saving up again...

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That is SUBARASHI! indeed. Just about the worst mistake you can make with him is learning his True Name, as that changes his voice set. Not that ZA DAINAMIKKS OFUAN... ASTEROIDO! isn't catchy in it's own way.

I was trying to come up with a consoling anecdote but then Wind Heles jumped into my arms on a single 10-part ticket, leaving my (SSR Feather when?) savings intact. It seems I will always be an ironic waifu magnet...

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Originally Posted by Cilia

The lore is a possible excuse (since they can write the lore however they like), but remember that the Viera aren't original - they were in Ivalice first and exist as near-literal transplants from that setting. (Hell, an adaptation of Ivalice itself was grafted on!) Therefore the males being a rare commodity is to be expected... it's not like it's a new concept for the race or anything.

Again, I cannot stress how apathetic I am to the whole issue - I'm unconcerned with the Viera in the first place. Whatever the developers and writers decide to do is their creative decision or bound by previous Viera lore... but given there are already plenty of attractive male PC options, I seriously doubt they wouldn't add male Viera because it "weirds them out."

For the record I don't agree with gender-locked races either... but whether it's due to being bound by previous Viera lore or simply a creative decision, I can respect the choice not to have playable male Viera. It's a fantasy setting - things won't necessarily be realistic by definition. (Were things this uproarious when Viera were first introduced? Their society's been blatantly sexist all along...)

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iirc Tactics originally made it seem like Viera were an all female species, so no, there was no uproar out of the gate. Male Viera weren’t mentioned until 12’s Ultimania where it was revealed that they live separate from the females and the two rarely interact sans mating/collecting boys. We never saw them because we conveniently never wandered into male territory. If we don't get to play as them due to "lore reasons" it'll be on 14's team and imo that'll be incredibly disappointing after 2.0's inclusion of 2 genders per race.

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Originally Posted by Tabbs

[T]he lore can't be an excuse here. It doesnt matter if it's a pre-existing race, the lore was remade for 14. We are still IN 14. If the lore doesnt count anywhere else, it doesnt count here either. Its extremely contrarian logic to play lore excuses for Viera.

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Absolutely nothing about the Viera was changed from their Ivalice incarnations - their clans, where they live, how their societies are structured, nothing. There is nothing original or rewritten about them at all. If they had altered their lore so it was more gender balanced OK, but they are the exact same Viera that exist in Ivalice... just on Hydaelyn now (in an area once known as Ivalice to boot). Nothing about them was rewritten or updated. Nothing.

If the Viera don't have playable males (and in my opinion that's a very, very big if), whatever reasoning they give is... well, what you get. Whatever the reasoning, if they choose to not make male Viera playable (or even to not have any in-game at all) that's what they choose, and it's up to them to live with the consequences. (Which will, of course, be a veritable shitstorm.)

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Originally Posted by Fenral

I highly suspect they decided it "wasn't their call" with regards to male Viera and decided to stay true to their original incarnations elsewhere in the series, player demand be damned. But part of me also thinks that they may do male Viera and female [REDACTED] for the next expansion after the inevitable backlash.


Or, possibly, they were working on another male/female race and got a head start on female Viera thanks to Fran's inclusion in RTI, and decided to stagger the releases as a compromise. But that's just me guessing based on my limited experience in software development. I could be way off there.

That is SUBARASHI! indeed. Just about the worst mistake you can make with him is learning his True Name, as that changes his voice set. Not that ZA DAINAMIKKS OFUAN... ASTEROIDO! isn't catchy in it's own way.

I was trying to come up with a consoling anecdote but then Wind Heles jumped into my arms on a single 10-part ticket, leaving my (SSR Feather when?) savings intact. It seems I will always be an ironic waifu magnet...

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I dunno. They haven't even hinted at the existence, let alone playability, of [REDACTED], so whatever that piece of data means if anything I couldn't possibly guess.

People getting worked up over nothing, if you ask me.

Hey, don't worry - I've got the Devil's luck when it comes to those kinds of things, and I'm used to it.

Roll a couple times on the Valentines' banner for the lulz? NP2 MHXA and Lancer Artoria get. Use tickets for the lulz? King Hassan and Edmond Dantès get.

Genuinely want Musashi / Moriarty? Gotta whale!

At least I have a whole year to build up what I have, since aside from the GSSR banner there's nothing I'm really interested in until Christmas releases Ereshkigal. The one good thing about the NA server is you can predict with relative accuracy when things are coming out, since it's... what, 2 years behind the JP server? And follows almost everything released therein almost in lockstep.

I'm only about halfway through Babylon and going very slow, so losing his great voice lines isn't an immediate issue. Getting ascension materials, on the other hand... why you gotta take pages, man?!

Word to the wise: if you have one do not take a Monster Manual to D&D sessions. DM no likey even if you're just using it to show people pictures.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

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I had to double check the lore from old games. It is vague to the point where you can tell they've elaborated new lore on what already exists, but my bad for assuming it was all changed. I vaguely remember someone saying the old lore had men living in their own villages and being borderline warlike with the women aside from mating, but I can't find anything to support this.

But anyways, my point still stands. It's a terrible excuse considering lore is ignored in every other aspect, and, like Rokke said, it's very much on the 14 team.

It remains to be seen how heavy the backlash would be.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Absolutely nothing about the Viera was changed from their Ivalice incarnations - their clans, where they live, how their societies are structured, nothing. There is nothing original or rewritten about them at all. If they had altered their lore so it was more gender balanced OK, but they are the exact same Viera that exist in Ivalice... just on Hydaelyn now (in an area once known as Ivalice to boot). Nothing about them was rewritten or updated. Nothing.

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Actually they have been rewritten slightly leaving the forest no longer seems to make you an outcast to be shunned and i believe this was done to allow people to play Viera without fear they would be ostracized when we go to the Greatwood in 5.0 we also got way more lore on the males than any other game involving Viera, there is also the omission of the Foel Viera but given FF12:RW wiped them out no changes there if they aren't around.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

Actually they have been rewritten slightly leaving the forest no longer seems to make you an outcast to be shunned and i believe this was done to allow people to play Viera without fear they would be ostracized when we go to the Greatwood in 5.0 we also got way more lore on the males than any other game involving Viera, there is also the omission of the Foel Viera but given FF12:RW wiped them out no changes there if they aren't around.

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(Maybe) lessening the stigma of leaving the village / forest and explaining what male Viera do with their lives isn't particularly significant.

They're still the exact same people from the exact same locale in the exact same region they are in Ivalice, with the exact same social structure and the exact same clans and the exact same attitude toward outsiders. They are the exact same people from Ivalice - just like people wanted. If that leads to the males being unplayable, well... careful what'cha wish for, I guess.

I still don't think that's the case, but whatevs...

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Originally Posted by Cilia

(Maybe) lessening the stigma of leaving the village / forest and explaining what male Viera do with their lives isn't particularly significant.

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It may seem like a small change but it actually has much bigger implications, Fran in ff12 was upset she couldn't hear the word of the forest anymore
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB9wIXEQeNo (2:30 start here)
its the most emotional Fran gets in the entire game willingly and its because she fears she has been abandoned by her very home something no Viera in ffxiv post Garlemald occupation seems to have to worry about that anymore.

Another implication is when you change 1 society law it calls into question other ones look at Ishgard for evidence bringing to light the dragonsong war also called into question everything the schlosticate had been teaching causing muggings/threats on their students so its not impossible for Viera mothers to then go why should i send my son away to most likely die alone when it is now ok for me to leave and return to the forest.

The biggest change between ff12 Viera and ffxiv Viera is the empire in their respective games ffxiv Viera are forced to interact more with other races this absolutely will change how they start to view things within their society it always starts off small but the snowball effect will kick in.

On the oddity of male Viera being indistinguishable from females until they reach puberty, I came across a text article relating to a documentary segment I'd seen a while back, about a village where there's a common genetic condition (possible but rare elsewhere) that can cause a developing baby in the womb to not respond to a particular hormone - so males don't develop proper anatomy, and appear female until puberty, at which point additional hormones trigger a very late development.

So, whether the writers are aware of this curious possibility or not, there's actually a very real scientific explanation for such a thing happening.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

So, whether the writers are aware of this curious possibility or not, there's actually a very real scientific explanation for such a thing happening.

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Well... There's also the fact that in general, fetuses develop as female first, before the Y chromosome kicks in. Which is why men have nipples for example.

It's not that large a leap to have something where this process lasts beyond birth and until the influx of hormones caused by puberty.

The main oddity comes from the development of genitalia. Since, unless male Viera are born with female genitalia and then only get a wang once they hit puberty, this would be a pretty notable indicator of what sex a child is upon birth >.>

There are plenty of real-life animals whose gender during childhood is difficult to distinguish. Mostly birds and lizards, but in a game where humans can have horns or tails, it's not outrageous to assume that "genitals internal until puberty" could be a trait for some humans, as well. Certainly, even with these real-life animals it IS possible to determine gender through careful examination - that's what chicken sexing is all about, after all. It's likely that the Viera COULD figure out whether their child is a male or female by carefully investigating the proper orifices, but don't bother for cultural reasons, or see it as morally wrong to do.

Jeez, why are y'all talking about genitalia? I think the "they live alone and die alone" "they simply do not exist to us" is what they want you to focus on. Unfortunately

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Originally Posted by JamiaHaab

Jeez, why are y'all talking about genitalia? I think the "they live alone and die alone" "they simply do not exist to us" is what they want you to focus on. Unfortunately

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Because it seems a weird concept that they can't be told apart as children? People keep being puzzled by it, or thinking it means that they're permanently indistinguishable from females.

There's more to thinking about what they'd be like than "we're never going to see them anyway".


(Also I've had that documentary in mind ever since we got that description, and think of it every time someone comments on how the males must look like females. I brought it up once before but had to do a vague "it was in this documentary but I don't remember the details or why it happens" - now I can point to an actual article explaining it.)

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

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Regardless of what happens going forward, at present the Viera of XIV are near-identical to those from the Ivalice setting. They might not be carbon copies, but they are fundamentally the same on so many levels they might as well be.

I'm not fond of arguing minutiae or personal interpretations / theories, so I'll leave it at that.

Finally finished Babylonia in F/GO.

The whole battle with Tiamat was freakin' epic! To top it off, while Moriarty might not be my best Servant (I couldn't even get him to Stage 3 on account of being one Stinger short before clearing the Singularity) he survived the whole final battle and finished her off with his NP... only to then hysterically scream about cracking his hip.

I can see why they chose to make an anime out of it!

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Originally Posted by JamiaHaab

Jeez, why are y'all talking about genitalia? I think the "they live alone and die alone" "they simply do not exist to us" is what they want you to focus on. Unfortunately

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You think that's bad? Try having to explain the particulars of reproductive organs functioning despite the size difference between male and female Au Ra.

Good times...

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Originally Posted by Cilia

You think that's bad? Try having to explain the particulars of reproductive organs functioning despite the size difference between male and female Au Ra.

Good times...

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Well, evidently it happens, so "things fit together" and that's as much as I'd like to think about that topic.

It did occur to me some time ago that the height difference would greatly lower the chances of horns coming into contact with their partner's eyes, which is probably a helpful evolutionary survival trait.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Basically, as long as you get to play your waifus, you're happy

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Do you not find that even a little presumptuous? I have no physical attraction to my character. Nor do I find it to be comparative to a significant other. I find your comment and assumption quite reprehensible.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

One could take the way you posed that question and throw it right back at you.

Why do Viera have to be female only?

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Despite your insult, I'll attempt to answer your question. Even though it is a different question than my initial question.

The simple answer is they don't have to be female only. I even said in that same post you quoted that they'll probably add males too.

What I asked, though, is would it be so awful if they were female only? Does having it be female only change, or impact the game for anyone in any real sense? Does not having a male Viera break the game for anyone?

Will the world stop spinning? Will it tilt off its axis? Will the sun die? Will people wilt up like delicate flowers?

Because some people are acting like it's the end of the world.

Personally, I won't die over having no male Viera. I won't die if they get "heels." Whatever that means now (it's open to interpretation at this point). I did give my opinion on how I'd like them to look. Nothing wrong with that.

If they made a male only race, it still wouldn't be the end of the world for me. I wouldn't even care if there were genderless races. It's the choice of the devs, director, producer, company, or what have you; in any game. Perhaps lore forces them into a corner with it. Perhaps there are other various reasons for it. Whatever the case may be, I would not start a formal protest, or proclaim that I will "quit the game" as some have. Asking for them is okay, I guess. But without even having a definitive answer on not getting them, it seems a little silly.

Either way, I'll accept whatever they do in this matter. It won't kill me if they add male Viera. It won't kill me if they're female only.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Well, evidently it happens, so "things fit together" and that's as much as I'd like to think about that topic.

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The game likes to bring up things like this though.

For example, in the BLM job quests there's that Miqo'te lad who has a thing for your Lalafell tutor...

You kind of have to wonder about how these things would work out... As I'm sure this wouldn't be the first budding romance between 2 different races >.>

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Originally Posted by Kalise

The game likes to bring up things like this though.

For example, in the BLM job quests there's that Miqo'te lad who has a thing for your Lalafell tutor...

You kind of have to wonder about how these things would work out... As I'm sure this wouldn't be the first budding romance between 2 different races >.>

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But that's only assuming love must require penetrative sex. It actually doesn't. It can certainly be part of it, and a large sway of humans are likely to say it is part of it, but it's really not something that has to actually happen in terms of love itself. Pretty sure Shiva and Hræsvelgr prove this if nothing else.

Also, if you must go further into it, Sastasha. It's kinda horrible.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

The game likes to bring up things like this though.

For example, in the BLM job quests there's that Miqo'te lad who has a thing for your Lalafell tutor...

You kind of have to wonder about how these things would work out... As I'm sure this wouldn't be the first budding romance between 2 different races >.>

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As Ceridwenae said, Au Ra size difference and interracial romances are two different issues.

I think it's an inevitable part of any setting with equally-human-minded races in a range of body shapes that someone is going to fall in love with a person who isn't 'physically compatible' with them. I don't see anything wrong with that, and I don't think it has to lead straight to the "how is that physically going to work?" question, because they might not even be wanting to do so.


It could also explain the general lack of mixed races. Zhai'a Nelhah and Lalai could end up a couple, but that doesn't mean we're getting half-Miqo'te-half-Lalafell kids out of it.

The few mixed-race characters we know are all from close-to-human races - Hyur, Elezen, Garlean and, according to legend, Au Ra. (Possibly one instance of male Hyur/female Roegadyn, as there's a Hellsguard in the Peaks who mentions that his grandfather's name was Byron. Could be adopted, though.)

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Originally Posted by Iscah

As Ceridwenae said, Au Ra size difference and interracial romances are two different issues.

I think it's an inevitable part of any setting with equally-human-minded races in a range of body shapes that someone is going to fall in love with a person who isn't 'physically compatible' with them. I don't see anything wrong with that, and I don't think it has to lead straight to the "how is that physically going to work?" question, because they might not even be wanting to do so.


It could also explain the general lack of mixed races. Zhai'a Nelhah and Lalai could end up a couple, but that doesn't mean we're getting half-Miqo'te-half-Lalafell kids out of it.

The few mixed-race characters we know are all from close-to-human races - Hyur, Elezen, Garlean and, according to legend, Au Ra. (Possibly one instance of male Hyur/female Roegadyn, as there's a Hellsguard in the Peaks who mentions that his grandfather's name was Byron. Could be adopted, though.)

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to add to this mix race children do happen but they are stupidly rare to happen, Hilda in HW is the only mixed race npc we have come across, we were also told of a legend of a hyur/au ra child being born with almost no scales in Sui no Sato. Could any race combination have a child yes chances of happening near 0

The reason why mixed-races are not common though has more to do with society not wanting mixed-raced kids then that mixed-race children are difficult to give birth to. We don't see lots of mixed-race couples with only very few of them have children when the genetics works out. What we do see is the ostracization of mixed-race children and mixed-race couples.

So for the races that do have extreme body differences, I could see them having mixed-race children just fine, but due to society's view of it, there just isn't a lot of opportunity for mixed-race children to be born in the first place.

It's also certainly possible that the majority of half-breed children favor one parent or the other heavily enough to pass as a full-breed of that race. Like a Hyur/Roe who looks exactly like a Roe except maybe an inch or two shorter than average. If half-breed children are rare, half-breeds that are OBVIOUSLY half-breeds, such as Hilda, are likely rarer still.

Iirc, Koji Fox stated in an interview once that the very few half-breed children that would come to be take heavily after the mother, e. g. most of the racial features, with the father only influencing certain details/refining them. Hilda being the 'special snowflake' there.

And in the Quest line about the Ruby Princess, they talk about the child of an Auri woman and a Hyur man which looked mostly Auri, only 'with alarming few scales'.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

to add to this mix race children do happen but they are stupidly rare to happen, Hilda in HW is the only mixed race npc we have come across

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Hilda's not the only (definite) mixed-race character we've come across - there's also Arenvald, who is half-Garlean.

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Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

The reason why mixed-races are not common though has more to do with society not wanting mixed-raced kids then that mixed-race children are difficult to give birth to. We don't see lots of mixed-race couples with only very few of them have children when the genetics works out. What we do see is the ostracization of mixed-race children and mixed-race couples.

So for the races that do have extreme body differences, I could see them having mixed-race children just fine, but due to society's view of it, there just isn't a lot of opportunity for mixed-race children to be born in the first place.

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I agree it's definitely a society thing first - it's less likely that interracial romances are going to form in the first place, and less likely that they're going to want kids. But that still doesn't guarantee that all race-combinations are able to have kids if they tried.

As I mentioned in my last post, the few known mixed-race characters we're aware of are all from the closer-to-human races:

Hilda = Elezen / Midlander

Arenvald = Garlean / Highlander

[Sui-no-Sato legend] = probably-Midlander / Au Ra

And that Roegadyn who might have a Hyuran grandfather, so probably = (Hyur/Roegadyn) / Roegadyn


We also have at least one other suggestion of a Hyur/Elezen relationship (not necessarily with children) as a sidequest has an Elezen man from Falcon's Nest sending you to visit his uncle, who is Hyuran.

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Originally Posted by RicaRuin

Iirc, Koji Fox stated in an interview once that the very few half-breed children that would come to be take heavily after the mother, e. g. most of the racial features, with the father only influencing certain details/refining them. Hilda being the 'special snowflake' there.

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Actually, I think Hilda fits into that description perfectly. While she stands out as "obviously mixed-race", the only Elezen trait she's picked up is slightly pointed ears (and her father's eye colour). Other than that, she's just a tall Midlander.

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Originally Posted by RicaRuin

Iirc, Koji Fox stated in an interview once that the very few half-breed children that would come to be take heavily after the mother, e. g. most of the racial features, with the father only influencing certain details/refining them. Hilda being the 'special snowflake' there.

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Here I was hoping that we might see some Miqo'te x Lalafell crosses so we'd get cute little kittens running around the place :3

The developers were actually asked a question about mixed raced characters fairly recently. I think it was during the American Fan Fest, though it may have been the European Fan Fest.