4.4: Role Action slots increased to 10. Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

Nobody is forcing you to use the 5 extra slots so please don’t ruin it for the rest of us.

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So complaining about SE undermining one of the systems in the game is ruining your experience? I personally don't care, but people have the right to complain about decisions that they feel to be questionable or poor. I personally would have said 7 slots was the magic number to hit (5 plus essentials), but SE decided to be irrational and remove the limit altogether.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

So complaining about SE undermining one of the systems in the game is ruining your experience? I personally don't care, but people have the right to complain about decisions that they feel to be questionable or poor. I personally would have said 7 slots was the magic number to hit (5 plus essentials), but SE decided to be irrational and remove the limit altogether.

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It was "irrational" for them to have put us in this situation to begin with. The illusion of choice wasn't a brilliant one and they are now moving to correct it.

What the end result will be by next expansion remains to be seen.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

but SE decided to be irrational and remove the limit altogether.

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There's nothing irrational about that. So long as there are more skills than there are slots, some abilities will barely see use, be it because of the meta, laziness in swapping out skills, or any other number of reasons. Their options are thus to remove the limit, or remove the skills, which will definitely hurt SOMEONE who did use them.
So given how SE thought it was a good idea to put those abilities in the game in the first place, and changes to that will probably not get here until 5.0 at the earliest, removing the limit is the fastest, safest way to ensure those skills see at least some use.

They don't have time to fix a broken system vs adding 1 action to solve the issue for Healers. They just give everyone everything. Lazy fix.

It tells a lot about the funtion of what is happening in the DEV offices.
It's Broken. Can we fix it. Yes but it will cost a lot. Can we do it cheaply. Ya just change the Class vs Job flag... DO THAT.

I play PLD and WAR in ARR they felt different. in HW they had more stuff that was just there own and they could be played differently.
DEV... In SB I remember making jobs and it sucked can we make less jobs it's to much work... in 5.X can we just get rid of jobs and give Roles. TANK HEALER MELEE DPS RANGE DPS. That way we can give everyone everything even more. And they can all play how they want to.
Community finds best way to play.
DEV Damn it we didn't think they could do that we will have to nerf the abilities.


I thought the idea in 4 was to deal with ability blot. Lets just give them 5 more action.

I guess it s because the alarming number of healers without Esuna.

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Originally Posted by LauraAdalena

"Button Bloat"
... but:

Healers: break, Eye for an Eye *
BRD/MCH: Foot Graze, Leg Graze, Arm Graze, Head Graze**
Casters: Erase***, Break, Drain***
Melee: Leg Sweep**, Crutch***

... that's not 10 abilities for a majority of the classes. In fact, Ranged Phys have it easy and relatively unchanged

"But just give us other abilities back"
Okay, but: I don't want stoneskin back. I don't care if it was useful on White Mage, that shit can stay there. I had way too many fights with people over bringing stoneskin on Scholar. It was NOT better no matter what people said and I proved it mathematically that a single-target Adlo was far more effective, faster to cast, had a heal with it, and cheaper than a stoneskin.

* = rare use or would probably only get use now that it's automatic
** = an ability with use, but another class has a more effective ability for that/is often the one to take theirs.
*** = screw these

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Break should get four Asterisks. I have never once used that spell.

About Stoneskin: It's there better in Divine Benison. Also, as a SCH in dungeons, I'd SS at the end of a pull and Adlo when they were running and that would allow me to DPS comfortably at the start of the next pull. Also, it was AMAZING on fate NPCs and story quest who's health was huge. It very much had it's uses. People just weren't thinking outside of the box.

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Originally Posted by PerrinTaveren

So what was the point of ALL of this?
I think they should remove role actions all together. All healers need protect, swiftcast, esuna and mana regen. All dps needs enmity reductions or contrary tanks need more enmity gain by their attacks, so either remove diversion and make tank enmity adjustable with dps, or just give all dps diversion basically. All melee / physical ranged dps need tp regen. There is no point of not taking invigorate so... either reduce tp costs for aoe or make invigorate for those jobs. Tactician / Refresh is a part of support dps basically. Because well they are supposed to support... right?

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That's the point of role actions so they don't have to make 3 different spells for each of those things for say RDM/SMN/BLM or the healers.

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Originally Posted by Mesarthim

The illusion of choice wasn't a brilliant one and they are now moving to correct it.

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It could have been meaningful if you had less slots that useful abilities...which would also have reduced button bloat, by the way.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Break should get four Asterisks. I have never once used that spell.

About Stoneskin: It's there better in Divine Benison. Also, as a SCH in dungeons, I'd SS at the end of a pull and Adlo when they were running and that would allow me to DPS comfortably at the start of the next pull. Also, it was AMAZING on fate NPCs and story quest who's health was huge. It very much had it's uses. People just weren't thinking outside of the box.



That's the point of role actions so they don't have to make 3 different spells for each of those things for say RDM/SMN/BLM or the healers.

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Considering we had Stone I and Blizzard I with Heavy at 40% in HW (which were both stronger than Break on potency and Heavy) and Lethargy was one of a few utilities BLM had in HW before being butchered by role actions, Break takes the cake of the most useless role action with a pitiful 50 potency and having cast time - just to be accessible accross the board. The 0MP cost does nothing to lighten the issue.

As a healer main I can't imagine what the plan is for healers in 5.0. There is less and less distinction between the three and more and more buttons. At least WHM will get their entire kit back if we are indeed getting 10 role action slots.

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Originally Posted by Luna-M

Didn't they say *up to* 10 or 10 been confirmed?
Anyway if it is 10, role action system is completely useless now.

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Most likely, this is a quick fix leading to a full removal of the Role Action system come 5.0. SE has recognized that selecting role actions is needlessly annoying. There's not a lot of gameplay value to be gained because someone forgets to equip silence, or whatever, and the group wipes as a result. However, I'd imagine that pulling the system entirely is a big undertaking, and not appropriate to do mid-expansion. They need to wait until Stormblood is done before doing so. In the meantime, adding five more slots is a workable solution that essentially solves the problem. It's not pretty, but it will do for now.

Tuesday cant come fast enough. Awareness + Raw Intuition forever. PUG scrub tank doesnt want to shirk me when I take the boss? Ill voke, Shirk him, then ultimatum and just shirk myself.

This is gonna be awesome.

Keep on hatin haters. Being salty about having more options, less clunky (swapping skills), and not auto wiping your group because you forgot to equip esuna/silence/etc is silly. Every single person is better off than they used to be. If you cant handle 2 more buttons (because lets be honest, some of those skills you will still never use), then you need to re-evaluate your setup. This game has exceptionally flexible control options. I can fit all my skills, meds, and even some number markers easily with a few spots to spare (for this role expansion) and i play on a dang controller. If a controller can fit everything and then some, you can to. Less salt, more figure out how to use the UI efficiently.

And this is why the silly decision to remove our skills back in SB was one of the most bad decisions the XIV team ever took.
Bring back the skills we lost. We lost not only style but also a more interesting fight.
Not to mention the removal of those created a lore issue as those skills are still being utilized by NPCs.
Bring back the DRG's pole dancing and Phlebotomize and also Shadowskin (one of the coolest skill animations we had) and Scourge.
Stop making the game more and more stupid and adjust the skills if you think they are useless and wrong.
After all the button bloat excuse didn't work out.

I dont see how people are complaining about this. This is awesome and should have been this way from the start of 4.0

Skill bloat was never a problem for me, then again I play on controller so its all muscle memory.

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

I guess it s because the alarming number of healers without Esuna.

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In fairness, Esuna is rarely needed to clear anything. It's only mandatory use since Stormblood released is normal mode Exdeath's single use of Doom. Every other removable debuff is just a minor inconvenience you can just power through while keeping more useful role abilities.

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Originally Posted by CorbinDallas

In fairness, Esuna is rarely needed to clear anything. It's only mandatory use since Stormblood released is normal mode Exdeath's single use of Doom. Every other removable debuff is just a minor inconvenience you can just power through while keeping more useful role abilities.

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unless you forget to summon selene and you're doing the SCH job quests where Esuna would be essential to clearing.

I use a controller. It's hard enough to fit all the skills in as it is for certain classes. Also, what did indeed happen to reducing skill bloat?

Yay, I can have my class skills back that they decided to take away from whm/sch at all times. Like it should have been.

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Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

unless you forget to summon selene and you're doing the SCH job quests where Esuna would be essential to clearing.

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What part of rarely didn't you understand. Of course there's fringe cases where it's essential, I didn't say there wasn't. I said that since Stormblood there hasn't been any content besides a single normal mode trial where it's been anything other than wasted hotbar space. I've literally had more use out of Surecast than Esuna this past year.

I have a feeling that this change to role actions is in preparation for the rumoured new classes we will have later in SB and/or in 5.0.

I already have all the role actions I use on my hotbars anyway (except for Break, lul) so it won't make a difference to my ui. Might suck for joypad players though, depending on their class.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I have a feeling that this change to role actions is in preparation for the rumoured new classes we will have later in SB and/or in 5.0.

I already have all the role actions I use on my hotbars anyway (except for Break, lul) so it won't make a difference to my ui. Might suck for joypad players though, depending on their class.

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Controllers have access to 48 buttons with just Set 1, the extended cross, and the W-cross. They’ll be fine. Not all of the cross-role actions are going to be used anyways; several are straight-up trash or too niche to care for.

And Doom inflicted by the 1st boss of Dun Scaith.. or the few instances of Heavy dot some boss can deal (Like the bleeding from the Weeping City's last boss).. It's not useful in every fight, but it's far from useless

My shot in the dark:

They are going to consolidate skills/abilities/spells that makes each role "alike" in the role action and make some job skills/abilities the optional stuff

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

It seems to me that the developers are acknowledging that there are issues with the role actions and this is the quick band-aid fix for it. I hope they can come up with a better long term solution.

As a healer, now I can put Break on my hotbar and never use it. /s

Also, so much for reducing button bloat.

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I don't know why they're bothering with a band-aid at this point. It's not like the semi-broken Role system hasn't been around for the first 75% or so of Stormblood's lifespan. The change reminds me of the ill-fated (and quickly reversed) decision to eliminate the Need loot option for 24-person Raids: it feels like it is coming out of the blue at a totally random point in time.

Personally, I don't care much. None of the abilities are exactly game-changing; just a few more oGCD abilities to hit every so often. I am pleased in the sense that this news verifies SE is looking at the unimaginative and iffy system for 5.0 on, but other than that... *shrugs*

One note, however: if this is simply slated to be a new normal - if role actions are going to be automatically gained, with no decision-making at all - then I am sorely disappointed. In my estimation, XIV is in dire need of more character growth options, not less.

I never got the logic behind what became a role action and what didn't.

All casters have an AoE bind ability directly built into their kit, not optional at all despite an AoE bind being of incredibly dubious usefulness.

Yet abilities that lower enmity, decrease enmity generation, and allow the instant casting of spells, are all optional role actions.

This is a stop gamp till we see how they break things in 5.0 when they rework the ability system again.

Luckly they do keep reworking it but no always for the better. Two steps forward one step backwards.
Hopefully 5.x changes really improvements are coming..

For BLM. Which I just got to 70..
to deal with Ability over run.


I personly would like to see the PVP combo move over to PVE.. to remove Button bloat.
Right now at 70 warrior has 3 main combos.
Which is 6 different buttons.
But that could be reduced down to 3.
How often are you breaking your 3 button in the combo to start it over.

The role action for stun and silence should be combined to reduce an action.
There are a bunch of things that could happen but we will need to wait and see. I think given people 5 extra action will just set back the idea of button bloat.

They will probably give some the DRK treatment and gut the skill set and go from 3 combos to just 2. They need to just implement the pvp combo system which will make it alot easier.

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Originally Posted by CrystalRainbow

I personly would like to see the PVP combo move over to PVE.. to remove Button bloat.
Right now at 70 warrior has 3 main combos.
Which is 6 different buttons.
But that could be reduced down to 3.
How often are you breaking your 3 button in the combo to start it over.
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Yet at lvl 70, (excluding role actions) WAR only requires around 23 slots for all it's actions, compared to PLD that needs around 28, and DRK is around 25. Adding all 10 role actions can bloat bars for some players depending on the job, but there are some that barely suffer at all like WAR and WHM (this is at 21 actions).

Some current actions do need to be merged no doubt about it, such as RDM's Jolt II and Impact (no idea why they were seperate), or potentially BRD's Straight Shot and Refulgent Arrow, BUT going down the avenue of PvP brought in to PvE wouldn't bring much freedom to the player if they got locked in to using certain actions because it's been automatically processed. Just think if a macro did everything for you, that would be kinda boring personally.

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Originally Posted by CrystalRainbow

I personly would like to see the PVP combo move over to PVE.. to remove Button bloat.
Right now at 70 warrior has 3 main combos.
Which is 6 different buttons.
But that could be reduced down to 3.
How often are you breaking your 3 button in the combo to start it over.

The role action for stun and silence should be combined to reduce an action.
There are a bunch of things that could happen but we will need to wait and see. I think given people 5 extra action will just set back the idea of button bloat.

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That's good and all for 123 dps classes but what about the magic classes?

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

That's good and all for 123 dps classes but what about the magic classes?

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Magic classes already had some changes with "element mastery", where a spell automatically replaces its weaker version. I think they could rework Fire and Ice lines for BLM to do something similar. For Red Mage we could have VerStone and VerFire replace VerAero and VerThunder when they proc, on top of Impact replacing Jolt II.

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

That's good and all for 123 dps classes but what about the magic classes?

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For magic classes, they indeed don't have combo (except the melee one for rdm), but they have some buttons we barely use because we sometimes just can't.
Examples :

Sumonner : Summon Bahamut and Enkidle Bahamut. Two button. You could merge those two because you can't use Enkidle if you don't have bahamut, and you only need to hit Summon bahamut once you have your 2 dreadwyrm stacks.
Pet actions on your hotbar should automatically switch when you change the pet (just like War have Fell Cleave/inner beast depending on its stance).

Rdm : Melee combo, Impact. You can only cast impact while you have the proc. You have no reason to cast Jolt II again if you have an Impact proc.

Blm : Enochian, Fire IV/Blizzard IV. Can only be used uder Enochian. Set them on Enochian once it's activated (just like in pvp).

That's not all, but these are some ideas.

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Originally Posted by Kurando

Yet at lvl 70, (excluding role actions) WAR only requires around 23 slots for all it's actions, compared to PLD that needs around 28, and DRK is around 25. Adding all 10 role actions can bloat bars for some players depending on the job, but there are some that barely suffer at all like WAR and WHM (this is at 21 actions).

Some current actions do need to be merged no doubt about it, such as RDM's Jolt II and Impact (no idea why they were seperate), or potentially BRD's Straight Shot and Refulgent Arrow, BUT going down the avenue of PvP brought in to PvE wouldn't bring much freedom to the player if they got locked in to using certain actions because it's been automatically processed. Just think if a macro did everything for you, that would be kinda boring personally.

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I mean, if you're using a macro for a rotation of skills you're already wrong.
All the PvP buttons do is compress the combo keys into a single key, it doesn't automatically exclude you from weaving in oGCDs.

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Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

I mean, if you're using a macro for a rotation of skills you're already wrong.
All the PvP buttons do is compress the combo keys into a single key, it doesn't automatically exclude you from weaving in oGCDs.

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Don't think I said anyone was actually using macros for their rotations, but it would to an extent make macros for them easier to setup and may give new players the wrong idea in thinking that's the right way to do it

By having PvP combos it forces you to pick certain rotations. What if you go Heavy Swing, Maim then you intended to go Storm's Eye but instead you decide to change it at the last minute and go Storm's Path. You would be locked in the rotation and wouldn't be able to start again until the process disappears OR you start a different combo. Also it would not be possible with PvP as there is no Storm's Eye available, so that should mean the action would need to be removed completely (and the effect merged with something else). It's pretty much the same with the other melee DPS as well with 3 branches instead of the 2 you see in PvP. Come on, this game is easy enough as it is, really don't need to consolidate more actions because certain players don't like pressing a couple of extra buttons/clicks. There are other actions in more dire need of being looked at rather than the combos personally.

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Originally Posted by CrystalRainbow

I personly would like to see the PVP combo move over to PVE.. to remove Button bloat.

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PvP consolidation would not work for a job like BRD, where they don’t have a 1-2-3 rotation but a priority rotation. I would rather not see it implemented into PvE, because it would be doubtful that the change would be an optional thing for players, so people who don’t want it would be forced to adapt to a system that they do not want or need.

Lol, not sure why this is a problem. I'm perfectly happy with more role slots being available. Ive been wanting 6 role slots for a long time because there were often times where I wanted to take one more role skill but there's no more room and all of the skills that I picked were already mandatory to the fight. For me, 10 is even better, now I don't have to switch out skills after every fight! If you can't find enough skills to slot in all 10, you don't have to. Or you can, but can leave it off your hotbar if you're worried about button bloat. :cool: