A detailed Reaction to Warrior in SB

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Originally Posted by YitharV2

Perhaps. The main problem I see is that Defiance still has the damage penalty so I'm not sure if it would be enough to make up for it.

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It would bring up IB/SP to original healing levels and also give healing to all its moves like BB. It would be small but considering how everything we do is dictated by dealing damage it would help a tiny bit with WAR's sustain and certainly would fit with the theme of the class.

That being said, they should just frigging give back BB to us and remove shake it off.

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Originally Posted by Tegernako

It would bring up IB/SP to original healing levels and also give healing to all its moves like BB. It would be small but considering how everything we do is dictated by dealing damage it would help a tiny bit with WAR's sustain and certainly would fit with the theme of the class.

That being said, they should just frigging give back BB to us and remove shake it off.

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What I found out about IB/SP is that it's not supposed to be a specific number. It's just logarithmic decay.

https://i.imgur.com/JIDN9aV.pngg

Yeah, I totally agree. But sadly I feel that won't happen. :(

Yep, that's why they changed the description to "heals for 50% and heals for 100%" to "heals for a percentage".

And no it won't happen.

Currently, my WAR just feels dull. Yes I can hold threat, reduce incoming damage with cooldown, and taunt, but instances just feel like a soulless 123124 spam. I want to love my warrior for his aesthetics, but it just is too monotonous right now.

I'm not going to make a deal of it since we were basically given no information either way, but nothing said in the letter actually leads me to believe that they don't actually know what the problems we're having are at all lol. Stance dancing shouldn've had a cost to begin with, but it doesn't like... fix the rest of the total lack of utility or identity. It's a bit hard to be thankful of someone fixing a mistake they made in the first place, y'know?

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Originally Posted by Umbeliel

I'm not going to make a deal of it since we were basically given no information either way, but nothing said in the letter actually leads me to believe that they don't actually know what the problems we're having are at all lol. Stance dancing shouldn've had a cost to begin with, but it doesn't like... fix the rest of the total lack of utility or identity. It's a bit hard to be thankful of someone fixing a mistake they made in the first place, y'know?

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I'd love for them to do a complete overhaul of the job, and make it more in line with their vision for the other classes, but in all honesty that's not going to happen until at least 5.0. I think the beast gauge change being reverted is enough for me to not quit WAR as I had potentially planned on doing, but I just really hope they make shake it off something legitimately interesting.

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Originally Posted by Umbeliel

I'm not going to make a deal of it since we were basically given no information either way, but nothing said in the letter actually leads me to believe that they don't actually know what the problems we're having are at all lol. Stance dancing shouldn've had a cost to begin with, but it doesn't like... fix the rest of the total lack of utility or identity. It's a bit hard to be thankful of someone fixing a mistake they made in the first place, y'know?

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It's a live letter mainly talking about 4.05. They're not going to be able to rehaul the job in just a few days.

They done good today. I'm glad I was wrong.

Have to wait for the Patchnotes for more details. But so far I´m ok with the changes. Also depends on how much STR they add to the Fending.

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Originally Posted by Baci

Have to wait for the Patchnotes for more details. But so far I´m ok with the changes. Also depends on how much STR they add to the Fending.

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There's a lot that hinges on this. They said "a small amount" which I'm hoping is in the 50-60 range (or higher?? :D), not 10.

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Originally Posted by Poison_Rose

There's a lot that hinges on this. They said "a small amount" which I'm hoping is in the 50-60 range (or higher?? :D), not 10.

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Thats what I´m scared off. Adding like 15 STR would be a punch in the face

All I know, is that when I look at tanks to play, I can see what paladin and dark knight bring, but what is a warrior? What does it bring, why would I choose it over other tank jobs? Was it really only about the DPS?

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Originally Posted by Tegernako

They done good today. I'm glad I was wrong.

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Hear hear!

Just need to decouple Unchained from Inner Release, and WAR will be in a pretty good spot (pending Shake It Off rework - soon™).

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Originally Posted by Poison_Rose

There's a lot that hinges on this. They said "a small amount" which I'm hoping is in the 50-60 range (or higher?? :D), not 10.

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Yeah, so long as with Strength VI materia we can eventually reach 79+ STR per accessory (even if this only starts with the i340 accessories), I won't care that STR scaling on tank right side is slower, because they'll still be bona fide upgrades.

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Originally Posted by Tegernako

They done good today. I'm glad I was wrong.

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I'm a bit confused here. Why is everyone content with the non information we were given? Was there something else said somewhere that I missed that wasnt just "get we undid that one thing we shouldn't have done in the first place and ignored everything else. Have some nonspecific potency buffs"?

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Originally Posted by Umbeliel

I'm a bit confused here. Why is everyone content with the non information we were given? Was there something else said somewhere that I missed that wasnt just "get we undid that one thing we shouldn't have done in the first place and ignored everything else. Have some nonspecific potency buffs"?

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Seems the general idea is to praise them for fixing what they broke and ignore other issues. I'm still curious as to what a warrior's identity is, which no one answered.
I think the community should ease up on the praise (especially for fixing what they broke in the first place and are only retracting, while leaving other issues unaddressed.).

Removing bloodbath was a mistake. I would use it before spamming overpower on a group of enemies, or in combination with vengeance before the boss used a multi-hit tankbuster (gobrush rushgob is a good example), and the self-healing would make up for not having a natural 20% damage reduction.

Right now, the lack of bloodbath affects me the most in large pulls in dungeons, because I can't take as many cooldowns as I need without gimping my ability to tank. I can't even afford to take convalescence anymore.

I can see why the damage reduction was removed from Storm's Path, it's for the same reason RoH lost the strength debuff, and Dragon Kick lost the int debuff, and the deletion of Delirium (I put the new version in the old one's spot... but it's not the same). But it doesn't change that now Paladin has superior durability AND utility, and DRK has the advantage of being "tougher than a WAR", although it's still disgusting how gutted the mana regen is (I've heard it gets better at 70, but that doesn't change how little MP Blood Price returns now).

I've gotten use out of "Shake It Off" only once. Every other time I've used it? "Of course it doesn't work. Why was I expecting differently?" Maybe it would have been okay back when we had to deal with a pacify, but right now, so many status ailments that you'd want to get rid of are protected by the game mechanics, so you have to wait for them to expire.

I didn't know about Inner Release's CC protection. But I know that with things the way they are, I don't get to use it in extreme primals, because Lakshmi needs me to keep pace with the MT to avoid getting the DPS killed, while Susano is way too mechanics aggressive. He's likely to screw me over if I try to use it while offtanking, and I don't trust PF groups to keep me alive in as a DPS stance MT.

Unless Shake It Off gets rid of Vulnerability Stacks/Weakness/Paralysis/Stuns/bleeds then you may as well give us a different skill or trait. You don't give us a skill, tell us it gets rid of most detrimental effects and then reveal to us it gets rid of none of them at all.

That's garbage.

Shake it off your hotbar indeed.

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Originally Posted by ZanzaUmi

Seems the general idea is to praise them for fixing what they broke and ignore other issues. I'm still curious as to what a warrior's identity is, which no one answered.
I think the community should ease up on the praise (especially for fixing what they broke in the first place and are only retracting, while leaving other issues unaddressed.).

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Hello? Have you even read the first post where I address this issue multiple times? Especially about the lack of utility?

I'm praising them for the stance changes and for acknowledging some of the faults. Where did I (or really anyone else?) ever say everything is perfect now and all issues solved? In my other posts I even said revamped shake it off was a chance for them to add utility to WAR since they have literally none right now.

Literally everything you two are complaining about, that people like us are apparently ignoring, is something I addressed extensively in the OP.

Where did I or anyone else say that addressing the few issues they did (but stance dancing is a big one) meant everything was fine? We're allowed to be happy without having to add a disclaimer "not everything is perfect" at the end of every post.

I mean just...wow. I guess I wrote that huge post for no reason.

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Originally Posted by Tegernako

snip snop

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Woah woah woah dude, hold on there, there's some sort of misunderstanding here. I wasn't being sassy, I was completely sincerely asking since there's been a big mood shift since then. Being happy isn't a problem at all, but all I've really seen from it is a lot of hostility to not being happy with what's only really the bare minimum. I'm on your side lol

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Originally Posted by Umbeliel

Woah dude I'm not sure what you're upset about. I wasn't being sassy, I was completely sincerely asking since there's been a big mood shift since then. Being happy isn't a problem at all, but all I've really seen from it is a lot of hostility to not being happy with what's only really the bare minimum. I'm on your side lol

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Well you were posting in my thread saying "the community" so it sounded like you were talking about me lol

And the mood shift is because we now know that SE is aware and they added one of the biggest changes we desired, stance dancing. It's like when you celebrate accomplishing the first step in a 8 step program. You're happy, your friends are happy, but you know theres still more work to do.

And to top it off, if the feedback they get from this is that it makes us happy, they know they did the right thing and will continue working on the things we are still unhappy about knowing that they can please us and it's not just going to be us eternally yelling at them. Positive feedback is important IMO.

And...I had have not seen this hostility you were talking about so I thought it was just an attack on anyone who is happy and not addressing specific people who were saying "nothing else to be fixed now!"

Sorry.

Just seems like after a vague live letter people are already optimistic over the little tidbits (not just from this thread).

Like Shake It Off is obviously a hot topic, yet really know nothing of what will come of it. It's great that the community spoke up about it and is getting a change that we can enjoy.
And my earlier comment was a bit vague I suppose, acknowledgement of problems is great, but there is still some other things to be addressed.

And the question of what a warrior was, I asked only because I'm genuinely curious what other players think. Was it the self-sustaining tank or the high damaging tank?

I'm going to keep stressing that unchained should be replaced with a healing styled mitigation over time similar to what bloodbath was. FFS unchained doesn't even affect IB cause IB ignores the 20% loss anyway. Literally unchain is only helpful for tanking if you are spamming storms path for a marginal at best HP gain. Its only other use is a brief DPS increase that usually gets spent on steel cycloning groups in dungeons. Pairing it up with berserk for a single upheavel (Forgot to mention Upheavel also ignores the 20% loss from defiance anyway) after thrill of battle just seems stupid when you are saving thrill for an emergency unless your in tank stance worrying about your DPS, is that what we are aspost to be doing? If thats the case my as well just stick to deliverance since everything outside of equilibrium and IB from our tank kit is usable on our DPS kit.

Deliverance + Convalescence is pretty much Defiance for 20 seconds anyway - some HP that Thrill can replace but much higher dps output... kinda funny really, switch to deliverance and get a Inner release in with thrill+convalescence before it then switch back. Unchained becomes useless.

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Originally Posted by ZanzaUmi

Just seems like after a vague live letter people are already optimistic over the little tidbits (not just from this thread).

Like Shake It Off is obviously a hot topic, yet really know nothing of what will come of it. It's great that the community spoke up about it and is getting a change that we can enjoy.
And my earlier comment was a bit vague I suppose, acknowledgement of problems is great, but there is still some other things to be addressed.

And the question of what a warrior was, I asked only because I'm genuinely curious what other players think. Was it the self-sustaining tank or the high damaging tank?

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*shrugs*

I'm not naturally a pessimistic person. Just a part of who I am. Not going to excuse being happy.

For me, WAR was always a fluid fun class that helped out the team in numerous ways. I love competition. I am constantly close to or MvP in nearly all fps games I play like Halo, Battlefield, and other games like Gears of War.

So for me I have two things, one fun factor. I don't play games unless I find them fun. And two competitive factor, how useful I am to my team with what I have at my disposal.

For instance in Battlefield the Aug A3 was not the best gun in the game. But it was still my favorite gun. Therefore I used it the most. However that being said I would tryhard with other weapons I absolutely needed every advantage. So 70% of the time me being better then everyone else is enough for me to do what I want but there's that 7% from my 77% win/loss ratio that came because I went full try hard and used all the best setups in the game.

You may be asking why this matters, how does Halo an fps game or battlefield another fps game fit in here?

It's because for both games I play for fun first and foremost but I also like winning.

But XIV is not an fps and it's also my first mmo.

So I didn't choose warrior at first because it was meta, I chose it because I knew tanks didn't die easily and someone told me that it had good self healing. I was scared of not being an asset in a genre I hadn't dedicated myself too. It just happened to turn out that WAR was really good at a lot of things.

But the reason I stuck with the class, was because I loved the fast, fluid, brutal nature of the class. But I also enjoyed what I brought to the team in terms of utility later on when I learned all about the other classes and cleared my first EX (King Mog) and continued onwards. It's nice to be fun to play but it's also nice to be wanted by others.

So warrior to me, is a class that is fun to play but also useful. It'll be fun to play again come tuesday but it won't be useful. That is why I place hope on shake it off because it's literally their only chance to add a "new" ability" that makes us useful AND fun to play without having to completely overhaul multiple abilities which would take far more work to balance then simply redoing one ability.

If they realized and fixed one of their biggest mistakes coming into SB with stance dancing and lesser damage then maybe, just maybe, I can trust them to fix the other issue given time.

(And yes, I am primarily an xbox player lol that is my sin apparently ;) )

(also to add irony to this post, this is my 117th post. So I guess I'm Master Chief now)

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

unchained doesn't even affect IB cause IB ignores the 20% loss anyway. Literally unchain is only helpful for tanking if you are spamming storms path for a marginal at best HP gain. Its only other use is a brief DPS increase that usually gets spent on steel cycloning groups in dungeons. Pairing it up with berserk for a single upheavel after thrill of battle just seems stupid when you are saving thrill for an emergency unless your in tank stance worrying about your DPS, is that what we are aspost to be doing? If thats the case my as well just stick to deliverance since everything outside of equilibrium and IB from our tank kit is usable on our DPS

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I want to say so many really mean toxic things about how stupid everything single thing said in this podt was, but ima be a good kid today and just say, nice meme bro.

Well, here's my wish list of changes, even if they're kinda selfish:

-Increase Cleave potency just a LITTLE. Should be able to match PLD unless PLD's get pushed down under the 500 pot tree.
-Shake It Off: Resets Berserk Timer and increases Damage Dealt by 20% for 15s...or something like that. I'm wondering what the balance team is going to do with this skill since we've got more than enough defensives, I wouldn't mind some offensives.
-Removal of Penalty on Stance Change(already planned)
-Give WAR Raid utility in some form, whether it be party-wide defensive or party-wide offensive.

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Originally Posted by Dizzy_Derp

I want to say so many really mean toxic things about how stupid everything single thing said in this podt was, but ima be a good kid today and just say, nice meme bro.

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Its ok man I feel ya, like I was wanting to explain more as to why Unchained as it is just isn't worth it and doesn't support our tank kit but I figured i'd save it for a response deserving some intellectual discussion.

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

Literally unchain is only helpful for tanking if you are spamming storms path for a marginal at best HP gain. Its only other use is a brief DPS increase that usually gets spent on steel cycloning groups in dungeons.

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I can't take you seriously when you're using Steel Cyclone during Unchained.

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Originally Posted by Tegernako

If they realized and fixed one of their biggest mistakes coming into SB with stance dancing and lesser damage then maybe, just maybe, I can trust them to fix the other issue given time.

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Given that they did mention specific ability changes for other classes, but didn't mention specifics for tanks, I'd imagine they are still hashing out the details and final adjustments. Was hoping for some preliminary patch notes this morning, maybe later.

All in all, war will be better now than it was. Incremental progress is still progress.

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Originally Posted by Ekimmak

I can't take you seriously when you're using Steel Cyclone during Unchained.

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Hah I just noticed steel cyclone ignores the 20% too. Wonder how long its been like that or maybe I just never noticed it did. Well that makes the skill more useless anyways. Unchained for storms path spam hp gains is practically all its useful for then cause not switching into deliverance with the upcoming beastgauge change for a quick inner release is just a waste. I don't even care if I'm not taken seriously, its just what it is.

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

Hah I just noticed steel cyclone ignores the 20% too. Wonder how long its been like that or maybe I just never noticed it did. Well that makes the skill more useless anyways. Unchained for storms path spam hp gains is practically all its useful for then cause not switching into deliverance with the upcoming beastgauge change for a quick inner release is just a waste. I don't even care if I'm not taken seriously, its just what it is.

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Always.. Lol

I like unchained for mass pulls, though it was admittedly better with bloodbatch self healing. If they aren't going to untie the CD they should at least attempt to improve unchained enough to not make it entirely useless. I think baking a bloodbath effect into unchained would be good. Although I'm sure some people would be upset they couldn't use it to sustain themselves longer in deliverance. But it's an easy way to work in a desirable effect that people miss none-the-less

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

Hah I just noticed steel cyclone ignores the 20% too. Wonder how long its been like that or maybe I just never noticed it did. Well that makes the skill more useless anyways. Unchained for storms path spam hp gains is practically all its useful for then cause not switching into deliverance with the upcoming beastgauge change for a quick inner release is just a waste. I don't even care if I'm not taken seriously, its just what it is.

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Cyclone has always ignored it too. Unchained's main usefulness is and has always been tied to the large amount of enmity generation that a WAR can achieve with the Defiance enmity bonus but having all enmity moves (not your stance specific moves) ignore the damage penalty. The only problem with Unchained right now is that it shares a cooldown with Inner Release which is tied to WAR's main burst phase and thus using Unchained sacrifices too much DPS to be utilized.

I acknowledge my mistake in that I must have missed the steel cyclone penalty ignore for defiance but using unchained for quicker/larger enmity grab? I've never seen this as a reason to use it. I've always paired it with overpower/steel cyclone spam for the extra deeps in duneons for large groups (Now I realize it doesn't even affect steel cyclone...) so its that much more useless to me. While MTing a boss after inner release was useable, I just couldn't find a reason to use it.

Honestly, I'd rather unchained be replaced with a healing styled mitigation over time still than be what it is, even if the cooldowns at some point are no longer shared. When I'm main tanking I worry about mitigating more than a 20% penalty for 20 seconds every 2 minutes that only affects regular combos. Just my 2 cents.

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

Hah I just noticed steel cyclone ignores the 20% too. Wonder how long its been like that or maybe I just never noticed it did. Well that makes the skill more useless anyways. Unchained for storms path spam hp gains is practically all its useful for then cause not switching into deliverance with the upcoming beastgauge change for a quick inner release is just a waste. I don't even care if I'm not taken seriously, its just what it is.

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Yeah man I can't take you seriously if you're using Unchained for Steel Cyclone. Any Warrior who knows what they're doing isn't going to do that. Unchained was never really used for Storm's Path spam.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...nking/dgbtaea/

It's used mainly for aggro but also for damage while staying in Defiance. Obviously Deliverance will deal more damage with Inner Release though.

Here we are lads make or break time let's get a drumroll going until the notes are up

Steel Cyclone has an HP steal effect.

Considering that was my favourite place to bring in Bloodbath, I guess it's ok... but I'm still bitter, and want that cooldown back.

Notes are up

Steel Cyclone thing is weird but I guess makes sense.

SP getting buffed is cool, makes sense to give us more potency on our most used combo. Curious how much it'll actually boost us though.

Getting rid of the halve gauge thing is a godsend, though does make stance swapping for WAR extremely strong again (with some drawbacks, but relatively small ones).

IR and Unchained not having a gauge cost is great... but not disconnecting them means that Unchained still gets outclassed by IR. At least it changes up our burst window some and makes Onslaught slightly more worthwhile.

What happened to the shake it off rework?

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Originally Posted by Zephriel

What happened to the shake it off rework?

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Comes in 4.1 sadly

They got inflicted with Amnesia and couldn't Shake It Off.