A PSA to all upset tank players

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Originally Posted by IzumiOgata

People want the perks of tanking (fast Qs, survivability,) but don't want to have to eat up their downsides (responsabilities, low damage).

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It should be noted that the perk of fast queues is not innate to the role itself - It's a byproduct of the role being unpopular, which is a result of it being unfun. Same goes for the infamous "support" role in MOBAs. They tend to get vastly faster queues than Mid/Top lane players for the same reason.
Whenever a role is needed in a certain quantity and it's less popular than needed, their queues are getting fast while the queues of other roles get longer.

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Originally Posted by IzumiOgata

There's never going to be a balanced population in any MMO, it's just a pipe dream.

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So the solution is to make it... less entertaining?

Just for simplicity sake, let's say 65% of players pick DPS; 20% pick healers and 15% tanks. If these changes drop the tank percentage down to 10%, the devs have failed. While yes, tanking remains unpopular regardless, it just became less popular-- precisely the opposite effect they wanted. The same argument can be made in regards to Warrior. You say people need to "deal with it." They will... by switching to Paladin or Dark Knight. Right now, the devs simply switched Paladin and Warrior around. One is silly OP while the other can clear content but seemingly has no place in a raid because its counterparts outperform it.

ITT: DPS-minded people complain that tanks don't DPS and/or aren't DPS-y enough to satisfy their DPS needs.

There's a reason that the trinity system works, it appeals to the most people, if you just make the roles an amorphous blob that can pretty much do everything then it ruins the whole point of the system.


edit for grammar

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Originally Posted by IzumiOgata

ITT: DPS-minded people complain that tanks don't DPS and/or aren't DPS-y enough to satisfy their DPS needs.

There's a reason that the trinity system works, it appeals to the most people, if you just make the roles an amorphous blob that can pretty much do everything then it ruins the whole point of the system.


edit for grammar

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ITT: PLD whitewashers saying that the other tank classes aren't shit and people need to suck it up, seemingly forgetting that when their main was garbage no one told them to simply deal with it.
Also the hour long queues and mass tank exodus are a pretty good indication that your precious trinity system does NOT work. And as a former tank I'm happily doing my part to see the current cancerous queues get even worse.
Just seeing this complete joke crash and burn makes me feel all tingly.

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Originally Posted by NinefoldRakshasa

ITT: PLD whitewashers saying that the other tank classes aren't shit and people need to suck it up, seemingly forgetting that when their main was garbage no one told them to simply deal with it.
Also the hour long queues and mass tank exodus are a pretty good indication that your precious trinity system does NOT work. And as a former tank I'm happily doing my part to see the current cancerous queues get even worse.
Just seeing this complete joke crash and burn makes me feel all tingly.

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ITT: Salty WAR and/or DRK is salty that PLD is actually the flavour of the month tank now?

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Originally Posted by IzumiOgata

There's a reason that the trinity system works, it appeals to the most people, if you just make the roles an amorphous blob that can pretty much do everything then it ruins the whole point of the system.

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But if they really wanted to enforce the trinity they'd prevent healers from DPSing in dungeons, but they've done the exact opposite (taking away Cleric Stance). The fact is that all jobs have a high ability to do DPS. That's just how the game is, whether it was intended by the developers or not.

From here:

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First of all, all roles have such high damage potential that even healers and tanks are literally support-DPS or hybrids in other MMOs which is why I tell everyone who asks that every roll in this game is a hybrid roll. "Tanks" are dps that hold hate; "Healers" are dps that have to keep everyone alive; "DPS" are dps that have to handle the raid mechanics. Treat it like that and everything falls in pretty naturally for almost all content (speedrunners and statics doing weird comps being some of the only exceptions).

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Originally Posted by Crysten

ITT: Salty WAR and/or DRK is salty that PLD is actually the flavour of the month tank now?

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this flavor of the month mindset is part of the problem we should not be happy to have which tanks classes is good be a rotation they should all be good at the same time

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Originally Posted by IzumiOgata

ITT: DPS-minded people complain that tanks don't DPS and/or aren't DPS-y enough to satisfy their DPS needs.

There's a reason that the trinity system works, it appeals to the most people, if you just make the roles an amorphous blob that can pretty much do everything then it ruins the whole point of the system.

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Well, you WERE being reasonable with your arguments untill now, which is why I kept actually taking my time to try and answer you with reasonable arguments as well. But you just went full "Screw people that don't think like me" with that post, so I guess our conversation is over. And this right here is why actually trying to brainstorm and give feedback to improve the current situation as someone suggested before is just not gonna work apparently...

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

One is silly OP while the other can clear content but seemingly has no place in a raid because its counterparts outperform it.

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I've been seeing this thrown around alot but can anyone explain how paladin is now silly op and equal to pre-sb war? If anything in a dungeon setting both DRK and WAR need some serious aggro boost on their respective aoe skills to compensate for the lack of damage gain via vitality, but in a raid and trial setting I'd say all three tanks are about even and able to fill both mt and ot roles effectively. For once, there's an actual sense of balance.

Dark may be meh but dark has always been meh. I love the Job and I know how to make it sing regardless.

I can't help but find it funny how the ones who usually love to claim that the current situation is perfectly fine are usually Paladins. No surprises there though seeing as they're the only ones who are currently in a good position right now as far as Tanks go. So of course they're having the time of their life and have no complaints. They couldn't possibly be happier with having the situation where they used to be the least desirable Tank totally reversed.

Thread tl;dr
OP: We are upset and we should do something about it.
Bad tanks: No
Non tanks: No
Relevant tanks: Sigh

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Originally Posted by Umbeliel

Thread tl;dr
OP: We are upset and we should do something about it.
PLD shitters: No
Non tanks: No
People who pretend they don't play PLD: Sigh

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Fixed that for you ^^

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Originally Posted by NinefoldRakshasa

Fixed that for you ^^

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Are we even pretending at this point lmao

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...81%97%E3%81%84

I posted this link in another thread, but I felt like I should post it here as well. It seem the Japanese players also want some tank changes as well. The link is to a now 25 page thread on the Japanese Tank forums.

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Originally Posted by Yahallo

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...81%97%E3%81%84

I posted this link in another thread, but I felt like I should post it here as well. It seem the Japanese players also want some tank changes as well. The link is to a now 25 page thread on the Japanese Tank forums.

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Yeah I put my 2 cents in that thread. I basically said by returning tank damage calculation to STR, the DPS disparity between tanks and DPS will only increase, and the more DPS decreases, the more aggro will decrease and that I don't enjoy having to spam Butch'ers Block.
I got 4 likes for that lol.

This is what Google Translate says for the person who commented after me (since I'm way too lazy to translate it):

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I think that it is an interpretation that I want a hate acquisition power proportional to the attack power of DPS, not to hit the DPS's attack power. . .
I think that it is already understandable that the difference between DPS's damage and tank's damage caused by the future update will be more and more different as it is the current system where the given damage is the hate acquisition amount as it is, so I think that the job as a tank is neat In order to do, it is impossible even if it is impossible to hold in future if you increase extension damage by the same ratio, or increase subparameters such as enemy sympathy + and add it to the accessory.

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I think that's pretty much the view of a lot of us tanks. It's not that we want to do as much DPS as damage dealers, but rather that we feel holding hate in the future will be more difficult. And it's not necessarily true that it being more difficult will make it more fun (because it's just spamming one combo to keep hate).

I personally think that there are a number of good points in this thread:

1) Making tanking engaging and interesting is a separate thing from simply wanting more DPS: many tanks want the engaging path, and are misrepresented by the vitriol of "you don't need more DPS" People need to realize many tanks just want it interesting. There are many ways to do this...more active (or pro-active) options for defense skills is a solid approach (ala' TERA). It doesn't have to be stance dancing, and doesn't' have to be isolated to the WAR itself. But it is needed.

2) moving tank damage to STR is effectively limiting as tanks do not scale STR in a tank environment. This could be changed, or at least provide a counterbalance. we need to scale as well, even with our threat multiplier, or they eventually have to increase threat multipliers to keep up with DPS class damage, which is counter-intuitive. threat multiplier works off damage, and damage scales with STR, something tanks tend to not stack for their main role (or shouldn't have to, just like DPS shouldn't have to stack VIT). I can't say what the best solution is, but I don't think lumping us in a DPS stat for scaling our threat is a solid solution.

3) While WAR needed some re-balancing, the changes plus the transition to a new mechanic may have been too much. I can't say if Im for or against the issue with losing resource on stance switch: if they don't provide this as an option, they should at least revisit what is put in it's place. There needs to be more visibility on the rotations and CD's to make things feel more smooth. This may not sound like a big deal for some, but it is for many. The bard is a perfect example (HW version vs. SB version). But I don't think we can wait a whole expansion for results in this case.

last point I'd like to make: I played both WAR and PAL during HW and ARR, and honestly I'd like to continue playing both. out of the gate in SB, PAL felt smooth for me, WAR did not. So even though I'm current playing my PAL, I agree with much of the concerns voiced herein, and support these ideas. However, I would note that on the point of the "strike", I don't' think it will really move SE any faster to a resolution, and the only people that will suffer in the short term are the other players. just something to think about.

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

So you took time to try prove a point or even a small little complaint about something you don't play? Then you ask for nerfs in msq trial in another thread? Enjoy the other primals for the story mode then lol.^_^

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I HAVE tanked. I don't do it as a main. And I took time to point out you were being an ass, which you continue to be.

So again enjoy your tank nerfs <3 ^_^

PLD hate is dumb. LOL. They have been absolutely GARBAGE compared to DRK and WAR for a long time even excluded from raid groups because of their lack of mitigation against Magic Damage. They get a buff and people start crying. Let them have a bit of time in the spot light ffs. quit crying.

I agree that PLD feels more OP than DRK and WAR, especially in dungeon... I also agree that PLD seems to be both a good MT and a good OT, while it may or may not be the case for DRK and WAR... But a friend of mine that mains DRK is way better as a tank in DRK than most PLD I've seen... I won't even argue on PLD using half of their kit, but I will argue on WAR and DRK using half their kit...

I've been leveling WAR because it has always been my heart job, but WAR actually feels smoother than ever. His dps is nerfed, true, but it still is decent enough. How in hell do y'all want to be WARs or DRKs as effective as PLDs if you don't train or try to embrace changes ? Yes, leveling up PLD is more engaging, because it had a buff, but it's not because DRK and WAR got a nerf that they're sh*t in comparison.

You were maybe fantastic WAR and DRK, but your job changed, so now, you're bad. Learn how to play, what's your cycle, and you'll be as effective as ever.

That's what every other job has been doing, and some got way worse treatment than WAR and DRK (Hello, fellow MNKs and WHMs), so get to work, and stop being whiners. Was proud of being a tank, but you guys really make it hard...

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Originally Posted by Temjiu

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I also agree on some of the suggestions, I played WAR and DRK in HW and put my PLD in closet after playing it through ARR and now in SB I am playing my PLD. SE does not have the best track record of balancing the tanks in FFXIV, it always goes to a meta and one tank is totally left out, even if they make changes to WAR and DRK to feel more smooth and less clunky, they will have to make sure that they don't become what they were in HW. I don't think making one tank stronger in DPS is a good thing, as it will lead to that tank always being a staple again as usually groups want more DPS than anything else.

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Originally Posted by NewSinz

PLD hate is dumb. LOL. They have been absolutely GARBAGE compared to DRK and WAR for a long time even excluded from raid groups because of their lack of mitigation against Magic Damage. They get a buff and people start crying. Let them have a bit of time in the spot light ffs. quit crying.

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I don't know where you get the idea of this PLD hate nonsense from. Nor do I get why the PLD players are being so arrogant with their newfound position. I don't understand this "us versus them" mentality when outside of PvP, this is a gosh darn team game.

You'd think that having gone through heavensward and having the pity of their tank bretherens, they would develop some empathy for the plight of their brothers and sister after having went through the same horrible design decisions.

The complaint here is that WAR and/or DRK suck at a fundamental level in terms of design and balance. We already know that PLD was designed well this time around, absolutely no one is complaining about.

So please, for the love of hydaelyn, pull your deeply entrenched heads out of your {rear} and read and comprehend the actual complaints first before coming in with your idiotic "hur dur I suffered, therefore you must suffer now even though we work together" or "hur dur real tanks onri sit in tank stance and be a burden to their party".

I have dropped DRK with this Expansion and not gonna take it up again. The playstyle of DRK has been ridiculously destroyed. However, after finishing my SMN to lvl70 I plan to level my Paladin (currently lvl54) because I still like the role of a defender, who walks on frontline and protects others. And unlike the DRK, Paladin still looks somewhat fun with cool new animations and a broad range of actions.^

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Originally Posted by ArcaviusGreyashe

Yes, leveling up PLD is more engaging, because it had a buff, but it's not because DRK and WAR got a nerf that they're sh*t in comparison.

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But exactly that's the reason. I'm a casual Player who didn't enter any raid Content since a year. I don't care about the DMG I did or do now as a DRK. I'm not one of those People salty because DRK has 100 less DPS than the rest of them.

I simply stopped playing DRK because he is no more fun. From Mana Management and Dark Dance-Playstyle to a boring mitigation Tank who just spams Dark Arts. DRK is boring. This class surely go a hard nerf and it doesn't matter if SE will buff their DPS for a thousand, I'm not gonna play it again until I get back more skills, more ways to tank and more possibilitys to evade DMG. And this won't happen before 5.0. So R.I.P. DRK.

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Originally Posted by ArcaviusGreyashe

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Been leveling WAR, getting back into tanking. I haven't tanked since mid-ARR so I was never part of the super-WAR era, and I can tell while leveling WAR that something was/is wrong. Unlike the other two tanks who have a stance that mitigates damage, ours is dependent on healing. Our standard mitigation was always through sustain with IB SP and BB, and offensive force was necessary for that sustain. Had we lost STR but gained natural potency in the sustain, we would have been fine; but we lost both power and sustain, and I've sure been feeling it. And I don't play risky; I'm still pretty nervous so I keep myself in Defiance, and while no wipes yet there have been some iffy moments.

If IB started costing less, maybe just 40 rather than 50, just so we could keep a longer chain of sustain and mitigation going, that'd probably help tons. Also having BB back, that would be a godsend. I'm not worried about damage, I just wanna actually feel like a grizzly bear, but right now I feel like a build-a-bear.

Also don't value your sense of pride on other's opinions. If you feel proud doing or being a thing, great, but not if its at the whim of someone other than yourself. Be more committed than that.

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Originally Posted by NewSinz

PLD hate is dumb. LOL. They have been absolutely GARBAGE compared to DRK and WAR for a long time even excluded from raid groups because of their lack of mitigation against Magic Damage. They get a buff and people start crying. Let them have a bit of time in the spot light ffs. quit crying.

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I'm in agreement with others here, I don't understand why it's such a great thing when one Tank clearly holds dominion over others. True that perfect balance can never be achieved, but I don't believe you should be cursing under your breath when your preferred tank is on the bottom only to then cheer and berate others when its then on top. The spotlight effect should not be condoned or celebrated.

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Originally Posted by Lewtskie

Also don't value your sense of pride on other's opinions. If you feel proud doing or being a thing, great, but not if its at the whim of someone other than yourself. Be more committed than that.

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What I meant there was "Back then, tanking community was great, we stood in our subforum arguing without going at each others' throats, eventually some PLDs would go out of their way and complain in general discussion, but that was it. Right now, we're ridiculous arguing over nothing."

I wasn't proud of what I did as a tank, everyone can tank, if he trains to do so, I was proud of the tank community. "patriotic" pride, if you wish.

Getting back to the topic, there are some iffy moments as PLD as well, it also depends on your healer... As a WAR, anyway, you can charge your gauge entirely in three and a half combos. You can get an inner beast doing only one "recharge" combo and one buff or one dps combo. Actually, WAR isn't as subpar as you make it seem, but it really is more bizarre to play, as there is no "true" rotation, you constantly have to adjust. As I understand it, WAR is the tank you go for when you have confidence in your healers, because you are less independant than the PLD is... But they are equal in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by RaizeGraymalkin

I HAVE tanked. I don't do it as a main. And I took time to point out you were being an ass, which you continue to be.

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Originally Posted by RaizeGraymalkin

Mostly WARS complaining because "waaahhh muh dps". How about you...ya know...tank now? Your actual job. Leave the e-peen at the door.

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You talk about yourself now?

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Originally Posted by RaizeGraymalkin

You...realize I don't tank right? Continue to look foolish though. Enjoy your damage nerfs. ^_^

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Okay but you said you don't tank and now you talk like you know so much about the change. So again when you said fool, did you talk about yourself? Just asking for a nerf for MAINSTORY, is only what a fool would ask for. Again are you?

So again ^_^ I hope you beat the future msq trials.

I'm a bit confused. My friend has played WAR ever since he started playing and he's been through the roof about Stormblood, laughing that someone on the dev team must have a love for WARs. He even tried to convince me to do WAR instead of PLD on my alt. That said I am loving how Paladin is playing in Stormblood (Total Eclipse is so nice to have), so I can see where it makes sense that they've been developed to be in a good spot, but I wasn't aware WARs and DRKs were having an issue in tanking. Is it lacking in DPS due to the formula change from VIT back to STR?

I really wish they'd go back to VIT for tank DPS either way to be honest. Its going to make keeping threat a bit tricky as the patches roll out as DPS will keep dealing more DPS and getting more threat where tanks will have static threat generation since our DPS won't be able to increase at all.

As a warrior since 1.0 (because that somehow makes my opinion have more weight l0l not really)... I'm honestly OK with lower dps and a meta leaning more towards tanking but all these people need to understand something. Paladin has been fronted to the optimal tank spot again where honestly it belongs (atleast in my opinion)... This means warriors and dark knights are almost guaranteed off tank spots for 8 man content. The off tank spot in this game has been nothing but a glorified DPS throughout this games lifespan so far with a few odd primals and raids that require a tank swap or add mechanics. Even then, the off tanks role for "tanking" is pretty much for a single mechanic leaving them to be the glorified dps the rest of the fight. We push our DPS as much as we can for this reason.

If SE wants a more tanky meta they need to give us off tanks interesting things to do not just DPS a majority of the fight otherwise we are going to complain about dps loss. Last time I heard pld isn't very far off at all from war and drk which leaves us at the sticky spot of bring two plds or go with a war or drk as off tank? I really like warrior and I hope we see some more interesting off tank mechanics and drk/warrior keep a DPS advantage over pld which we deserve, while keeping pld at the best main tank spot for highest mitigational purposes untill a new high mitigation class comes.

Right now the DPS loss is annoying to me but like I said that's mostly because I've been experiencing a DPS meta on my warrior for far too long. If you want me to worry less about my DPS give me something to do in fights.

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Originally Posted by NewSinz

PLD hate is dumb. LOL. They have been absolutely GARBAGE compared to DRK and WAR for a long time even excluded from raid groups because of their lack of mitigation against Magic Damage. They get a buff and people start crying. Let them have a bit of time in the spot light ffs. quit crying.

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The vast majority of Warriors wanted Paladin to be on equal footing again. No tank wants any other tank to be decidedly weaker because it only hinders everyone. Saying "Paladin deserves to be in the spotlight!" misses the point entirely. All this accomplishes is pushing people to either abandon Warrior for the other two tanks or switch to another role entirely-- defeating the very intentions the devs supposedly want.

When you have numerous raid groups seriously discussing double Paladin, that's a massive red flag you messed up tank balance. One tank is so much better, people are thinking about bringing two of them.

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Originally Posted by Vexander

I'm a bit confused. My friend has played WAR ever since he started playing and he's been through the roof about Stormblood, laughing that someone on the dev team must have a love for WARs. He even tried to convince me to do WAR instead of PLD on my alt. That said I am loving how Paladin is playing in Stormblood (Total Eclipse is so nice to have), so I can see where it makes sense that they've been developed to be in a good spot, but I wasn't aware WARs and DRKs were having an issue in tanking. Is it lacking in DPS due to the formula change from VIT back to STR?

I really wish they'd go back to VIT for tank DPS either way to be honest. Its going to make keeping threat a bit tricky as the patches roll out as DPS will keep dealing more DPS and getting more threat where tanks will have static threat generation since our DPS won't be able to increase at all.

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This is a hard one for SE to correct, the WAR was near perfect in design in HW, and what they done was take that and well, make it more clunky, they fixed PLD in this expansion to some degree. But this is a issue that I am not sure how they are going to fix it tbh! they need to be careful as to not have the same thing like HW where it was mandatory to have a WAR in progression etc.

They should not make it about DPS as prog will always favor the highest DPS tank, so what they would need to-do is make the encounters play on both strengthens and weakness's of each tank job, and make it equally as challenging for all. For starters the WAR stance switching should have remained the same imho!, while in raids make it requiring duel tanking and not just switch tank when tank buster debuff comes in, that is becoming boring and old. I think SE will correct the clunkyness though, the playstyle I don't think that much

When I first hit 70 dungeons, I had a nightmare time holding hate due to the difference in gear levels from people that had already done some grinding. It's sort of gotten better now that I am full 310 gear. It's still not HW levels of easy peasy emnity control, but nothing too awful. If I had one complaint, it would be that they took away my dot damage on DRK. It isn't that I miss the damage really, it's that I am so used to my old rotation that it feels like I am missing a finger now.

Each expansion I decide to try to take up a new role and learn more about it. 4.0, before I read anything, was my tanks turn. I was going to take up PLD b/c that was the under-dog, then people cried WAR

So I took up the G.Axe, I got to say I'm really enjoying it. Though I'm not connected in the old ways of tanking I simply used it blindly to get through roulettes for quick tomes. This time, I'm actually trying..

I see a lot of things about Enmity / TP issues as WAR. I'm not having nearly as hard of a time, sure I have my moments but I need to actually try. Maybe that's why I'm having fun.

PLD I just geared up and set up my hotbar, it feels the exact same to me except I can't sheltron every 30s. PLD doesn't feel like it was hit at all by the gauges. Looks cool though at least. With the exception of the 4 oGCD, It feels like it did at 50 for me now.

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Originally Posted by YitharV2

Yeah I put my 2 cents in that thread. I basically said by returning tank damage calculation to STR, the DPS disparity between tanks and DPS will only increase, and the more DPS decreases, the more aggro will decrease and that I don't enjoy having to spam Butch'ers Block..

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Are we talking strictly about EX trials and future savage content? I'm just curious, I try not to jump only to certain points. Like I couldn't comment on how bad things would be at 70 as others say, so I always made a point saying I'm not 70. I'm now 70 and still am not having the issues in the dungeons. I plan to make time for Ex trials this weekend, is that where I'll actually start to use BB a bit more? Right now I barely use it at all.

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Originally Posted by Glenarn

...at the same time it shows what some people are starting to think of WAR tanks.

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This is what makes it spread, are threads where someone reads something is bad but wasn't really given a shot.
"Warrior is horrible now!"
"why?"
"b/c some guy on a you-tube video said so and posted so on reddit."
"...the internet doesn't lie."

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Originally Posted by Pori_Dessu

At least when I linked to Xeno's video, I did it because, as I stated before, I don't play WAR, nor do I claim to understand how WAR works, and Xeno is the best WAR I've seen...

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I actually wasn't referring to the Xeno person, but it seems to have sparked something so that's at least good. There's always a person on you-tube who has an opinion and gets the hive-mind going. So pointing to an individual person? No. If you took at as a personal shot at that person, that's more of a real life personal issue but that's okay I can see how it could have been taken in the other light.

I'm sure that person is an excellent warrior, but I'm allowed to come to my own conclusions rather than join the hive-mind. I know "We came to these conclusions of our own free will" ...I'm sure you have, as have all the tempered seem to think so.

In the end you need to experience it yourself to see where these problems are, or if they're even problems to begin with. Enmity / TP / the use of the new moves, all of these I held my tongue and listened as I leveled Warrior.

I'm 70 now, I haven't ran into this issue to make it a huge deal. If I did, and here's the kicker the part 90% of the player base refuses to admit, it's b/c of me the user! And gasp you should little one! Mess up with a duty of my role and instead of blaming the system I..work on it? How dare I!

So now I tell myself, lets finish off the last little bit. Lets to take some EX trials! If I can get through the trials and beyond without all these concerns coming back to me as others have voiced their concerns about how "Trashy" it is? Then it makes me question whether it's the system or the player.

Then again, I may jump to EX and hit the wall like the others. I can't say, so I hold these negative opinions open for what I haven't experienced. To not go through it yourself and just agree? I can't do that. Sorry!

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Originally Posted by Lewtskie

Unchained being on the same cd for IR is kinda dumb, and people haven't been happy about that.

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I will admit that's the one thing that makes me a sad panda, was using it and going "My eyes glow..red..like the rest of my body" only to know I won't be using it very much. They could do something like have it give certain perks depending on your stance to give more of a bloodbath type of move and unhook it from Unchained, or maybe that's way too powerful?

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Originally Posted by Glenarn

Recently did a Roulette Dungeon where the second I joined one of the DPS said "Oh great, a warrior tank prepare yourself healer you are going to be healing a lot due to loss of enmity" I proved him wrong by holding aggro the entire time but at the same time it shows what some people are starting to think of WAR tanks.

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Your mistake was regarding the opinion of an uneducated DF stain as valuable.

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Originally Posted by Leigaon

This is what makes it spread, are threads where someone reads something is bad but wasn't really given a shot.
"Warrior is horrible now!"
"why?"
"b/c some guy on a you-tube video said so and posted so on reddit."
"...the internet doesn't lie."

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At least when I linked to Xeno's video, I did it because, as I stated before, I don't play WAR, nor do I claim to understand how WAR works, and Xeno is the best WAR I've seen, and a player I respect as a player. And as stated many times before by many others: Yeah, YOU may be enjoying the way it is right now, the problem is there's a big part of an already small part of the players that IS NOT! And how exactly is that healthy for the game as a whole? It's the same with the healers right now. They went: "Oh, there's a lack of tank/healer players, so let's make 1-2/3 of the tanks unhappy, and 1-2/3 of the healers as well, this way EVERYTHING WILL BE DAIJOUBU".
And as I also stated before: Don't come saying "The balance of the population's roles has always been bad in MMORPGs", because using that as an argument against trying to improve the situation for a part of the players that want the changes is just conformism, or a more ridiculous way of saying "I like it how it is, screw you". At least if you say the latter, you're being honest.

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Originally Posted by NewSinz

PLD hate is dumb. LOL. They have been absolutely GARBAGE compared to DRK and WAR for a long time even excluded from raid groups because of their lack of mitigation against Magic Damage. They get a buff and people start crying. Let them have a bit of time in the spot light ffs. quit crying.

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The PLD hate comes directly from them now being smug assholes and saying that the other 2 jobs should stay in the shit position they're now in, contrary to that I don't remember WARs or DRKs saying that PLD should remain garbage.
So yes, the hate is completely justified and will only get worse.

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Originally Posted by NinefoldRakshasa

The PLD hate comes directly from them now being smug assholes and saying that the other 2 jobs should stay in the shit position they're now in, contrary to that I don't remember WARs or DRKs saying that PLD should remain garbage.
So yes, the hate is completely justified and will only get worse.

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Except that not all PLD's are like that. Hating someone because he is playing the same class as some asshole doesnt justify treating him the same way you would treat the asshole.

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Originally Posted by Rasylia

Except that not all PLD's are like that. Hating someone because he is playing the same class as some asshole doesnt justify treating him the same way you would treat the asshole.

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Ever heard the saying "One rotten apple spoils the bunch"? It applies in full force here. WAR is in a pretty bad position right now, DRK got dumbed down a bit but is still decent, the only thing WAR discrimination will do at this point is shrink the already pathetic tank pool even more, since while going from WAR to DRK is a step down in terms of fun, going from WAR to PLD is literally getting a lobotomy for about 70% of real WAR main (not the fotm playing trash, which also seems to be the vocal part hating on WAR right now).

It doesn't help anyone. If only 1 tank job is good and the others are crap, what does that do to everyones queues

So an idea for Warrior. They removed Bloodbath because the level of sustain you had made WARs able to 'tank' in Deliverance, yes? Could we not bring it back but instead have it share its cooldown with Inner Release much like Unchained does now? Unchained being on the same cd for IR is kinda dumb, and people haven't been happy about that. Then make it so for the duration it drops your IB cost to 30, so then you could easily do a 1-2-3 Storm's Path > Inner Beast immediately. That level of sustain in that window would be so good without being completely broken, yes? Momma Bear drinks deep of her foe's blood protecting her little cubs!

Ha ha haaa!
I could not be happier with Paladin! Jokes on every other tank!