Provoce as PLD, or Rampart or Covalecenz or Awarness or ....? No tank with an inherent stun despite PLD with Shield Bash and "stun" is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more mandatory and needed than Esuna ever was.Quote:
Originally Posted by MsTanya
Must have missed all those whining tanks.
Yes, it was in the healer kits, but not on equal places.
And SCH's leeches couldn't be shifted to a level below 30, because then it's ARCANIST, which gives SMN access to the ability.
Therefore it had to become a role-based ability to give all three healers equal access at the same level. Common, it's not that hard to understand.
And it doesn't matter at all. If there is a skill you want to take instead and you are able to (because nothing to esuna) then great. If not, then take Esuna.
Why do people depict switching a role-based-skill as something ultra hard or super annoying? Better get used to it.
Or don't and just take the 5 "mandatory" (haha) skills and go on as before? Or what exactly are you missing then?
It's at least not worse, i mean now you take specific mandatory skills as cross-class (without any choice), in SB you at least have a choice and are able to overthink the mandatorieness of skills.
That's a win for everyone who kinda "thinks" when playing this game and people who like to play around with their friends in different comps. Sure, not fun for braindead dungeon spammers, but well.. idc about those, why should I? As said, they can just pick the 3-4 "mandatories" as we do it now.
About Esuna, Exalted Detriment and Leeches change
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06-12-2017, 07:37 PMNeophyte
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06-12-2017, 08:30 PMTiva
There are so many posts complaining about what we "lost" in the cross role system. It's really getting a bit silly, I think. Some decisions are definitely questionable... but actually before any of this info was released, all I thought cross role was going to be was taking skills we had that are considered mandatory (yes, losing skills) and putting them in there. I thought definitely the dispel, definitely surecast and swift. And some other things. I NEVER thought they were going to add a system that is this in - depth. Even designing so many new spells and reworking others. I thought, ok, we will get the cross roll thing (which would be new, but I didn't think the SKILLs would be new) and we will get some new job skills. Whoop de doo. Instead we got this entire new system with a crazy numbers of new skills. Some may be good, some may be bad. But it shows a risk in development on SEs part, something they could use more off. For the past expansion, they have been so afraid to take a risk. Now that the game is doing well I think they are getting brave and willing to take some risks. So I will take it! Anything to help shake off the stagnant design. I see people complaining so much about the cross role system.. honestly it's probably the last thing we should be complaining about right now. Energy is better focused on the job changes and skills.
ETA- also, if you are going to complain about the cross role system, we are picking esusa to complain about? jeeze. That skill is probably going to be the most left out LOL. When you need it you need it. When you don't you don't. Completely depends on the content. And there's plenty of content in the game where a dispel is "nice" but not anywhere near mandatory. Like many bosses that do a poison or something. Most of the time you can heal through it pretty easily. The only really mandatory situations are like doom where its dispel or die. Maybe SE will surprise me and add a ton of new debuff dispel mechanics in new content. We will have to wait and see, but it's still really early to complain about this. -
06-12-2017, 11:35 PMAraminaPlay with them when you don't need Esuna/Protect/Whatever like every other healer?Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphyna
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06-13-2017, 12:22 AMReivya
What I've heard among other discussions and what makes sense to me, is that Esuna went to the role list, at least in part, to give SCH a cleanse for lower levels without also giving it to SMN.
For the role list in general, it feels to me like it's to be used as baseline set of skills a role should have, rather than a point of customization within a class like a talent tree. I'm not sure what it had been advertised as before, but that's how it seems to have been implemented at least. -
06-13-2017, 12:34 AMThunda_Cat_SMASHIt was advertised exactly as such, a baseline set of skills and utilities that all roles should have access to, hence why Esuna being there was one of the most predictable things they could've done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reivya
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06-13-2017, 01:18 AMJonnycbad
Many dungeons and primal fights dont have anything worth removing. Also, now only 1 healer needs to have it, so other healer can put on something more useful. Coordination and optimization. No more "set it and forget it" mentality. Even DPS will need to decide who should take stun, who should take goad, and who should take Feint.
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06-13-2017, 02:08 AMTaleraRistainHollow Deathgaze says hiQuote:
Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH
And yes, this choice was silly. Just lower Leeches to 18. We all already had cleanse natively so we're all losing out on having to take it back through cross-role. Especially in comparison to other roles where the cross-role abilities are nice boosts or really do streamline some things, but don't strip the base Job of what they had. I'm rather looking forward to the changes with brd, for instance. Brd still has their songs and they're not only useful now, they don't punish the brd. A couple of things they could do are now cross-role so with the new system they end up with a net benefit. But healers end up with a net loss, and some more than others. -
06-13-2017, 03:37 AMThunda_Cat_SMASH1 instance in over dozens of other similar instances means nothing. I also already acknowledged that one in a previous post.Quote:
Originally Posted by TaleraRistain
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06-13-2017, 05:31 AMtechnole
Turn 7 Savage, Venomous Tail - 4 people at the same time get the debuff for death, and has to be dispelled in seconds. This is the only one in the game where it was pretty much a two healer mechanic (each healer would cleanse two. one works from bottom, other from top).
Alexander Savage A3S, Throttle. - 2 people, 8 seconds until they die. Happens twice. Although one healer can control all of this.
Hopefully they will bring back something similar to the the T7S situation someday, sort of enforce both healers to have it. Or have Selene out. -
06-13-2017, 06:18 AMFernosaurIt does reduce button bloat, since if you go into a fight that doesn't need Esuna at all, you can instead change that skill in your hotbar to the other Role Skill you're bringing. If you decide not to use the same slot in your hotbars and leave Esuna greyed out, then that's your choice and yours alone. Other players might just change it and have one button freed up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fawkes
And about the need to change your role skills per instance... SCHs already do this by weaving Blizzard II for dungeons and Stoneskin/something else for important or more difficult raids.
I don't see why there are so many healers up in arms about this...
If you weren't forced to take Esuna, what would you take in its stead? It's not like the skills are super varied and important in general:
We have Swiftcast, Protect (debatable), Esuna, Lucid Dreaming and Cleric Stance/Largesse as a good set for any kind of Duty Finder run. The rest (E4E, Break, Surecast and Rescue) are mostly situational to be considered universal Duty Finder picks, and will likely only see use in more controlled environments in which you can communicate much more with the other healer. A special case can be made about E4E for Scholars because of how it interacts with Deployment Tactics, and even then, a deployed E4E is hardly ever worth it in dungeons because it's only activated by physical attacks. which only the tank will ever get.
After the change to Cleric Stance, I'd say neither E4E or Largesse are even necessary at all for any dungeon. The only reason I'd ever use E4E or the healing buff skills was to buff Regen or Asp Benefic so that I could be in Cleric Stance for much longer, but with the ability to freely weave in instant abilities or heals in-between DPSing, and how the changes affect skills like Assize, Earthly Star and Excogitation, Largesse is largely pointless for dungeons. I have yet to see a dungeon in which the healing potency buff is absolutely necessary to clear it. Same thing goes for 24-man raids, really. The only times I have absolutely needed the healing+ buff in 24-mans have been when the other healer either DCs or spends the entire fight dead and I end up solo healing things like Forgall's Hell Wind or Scatach's ultimate.
Also, if you don't DPS as a healer and are worried about needing Largesse or E4E, then lol. -
06-13-2017, 06:22 AMOotarion
I am seeing the words "If Leeches was acquired at a lower level, then Summoner would have it to." ummm there is a simple solution to this....program it so that no matter what, Summoner cant have access to it which is 100% doable, or perhaps program it to be learned at around the same time SCH gets another ability from a quest, why there only needs to be one Skill learned ever 5 levels from a quest once unlocking a Job Class (IE Scholar) has always confused me, but IN THIS regard it would make sense. Have Scholar learn Leeches at a much sooner level at the same time it's learning another, this is yet another way to prevent Summoner from having it to. There are ways to prevent Summoner from having access to it, and if this Cross Role system was one such way to do so, then it was not the best way.
Addendum: I know I said that they could just have Leeches learned at the same time as another SCH Job Skill but why not instead switch its place with a lower level SCH Job Skill? That way Leeches is learned sooner and whatever Job Skill it took the place of is learned later. -
06-13-2017, 06:25 AMdynus
Eh, the only thing I'm worried about is the story content involving Leeches. Though that's easily remedied by simply changing it Esuna (though what will we learn in the lv 40 SCH quest now? I haven't seen anything about that yet)
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06-13-2017, 06:34 AMFawkesIt's similar to how PvP was, which they are fixing, everyone could have just made macros to swap their PvP skills in and out of their hotbar, but few people ever did. Now PvP has it's own hotbar so people don't have to swap, and the people who didn't swap are no longer automatically gimped by not having as many skills as those that did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fernosaur
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06-13-2017, 06:39 AMOotarionThis is yet another example of why the current Cross Role system as we've seen it in SB videos is such a problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by dynus
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06-13-2017, 06:51 AMFuriousButton bloat relates to abilities that are not used, or are used in very small niches. Status removal is used all the time. Ergo: Status removal is not button bloat. Frankly, whether or not it is possible to run without status removal, making it optional to me is a watering down of the role. Removing statuses is just something that healers do; only now, they mightn't because reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fernosaur
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06-13-2017, 07:07 AMOotarionThis is actually very true of you Furious, there are some Healers out there who might not use status removers simply because reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Furious
I mean imagine a Healer who has their own playstyle that involves never having Esuna equipped, they have the freedom and right to do this because the system is now allowing them to not have it, ever. People may think this is a blessing but it will more then likely be a curse. Because the Healer has the right and freedom to refuse to have it as part of their preferred kit, and no one would be able to have justifiable reasons to chew them out or be upset because the Healer is just doing what the game is now permitting them to do. If the Status Removers were core built into the Healers then that would be another matter cause they would have access to it regardless because its in their core kit, and not in the Cross Role. -
06-13-2017, 07:54 AMPhixxWell now it is a healer role ability.Quote:
Originally Posted by Furious
With the change from cross class to role abilities SE has to put some abilities in that selection that are considered "necessary" for that role.
With the removal of cross class they can't have Protect be a WHM only spell, and adding it to all the healers increases the number of buttons; Esuna is meeting a similar fate because it is random for a dungeon or boss to actually require a dispel and you can now choose if you need it or not. Don't want to have to "worry about possibly needing it" or you feel like it is "used all the time" then take it. This is just another iteration or cross class which is already inflexible. Are the new Role Abilities perfect? No, but complaining about how you have little to no choice when the current model doesn't have them either is whining just to whine.
Ex. I need Esuna for Baelsar's Wall, I however won't touch the button in Sohr Kai (Hard), I however will still take it if I am doing Expert Roulette. -
06-13-2017, 08:07 AMFyceNo it's not. There's very few dungeons and raids where it's mandatory.Quote:
Originally Posted by Furious
You can do all daily roulettes for a month and never end up on a duty where you'll have to press that button. -
06-13-2017, 08:08 AMOotarionHow do you justify the fact that Shroud of Saints and Luminiferous Aether (which are MP refreshers of equal MP restoration) from White Mage and Astrologian? These are built into the classes and are now being shoved into the Cross Role as Lucid Dreaming.....I can see if this is to help SCH but Ive never seen a Scholar have MP troubles and even if they did, its hardly a reason to rob WHM and AST of something built into them. SE can just as easily program the Cross Role to have Lucid Dreaming show up ONLY for SCH while WHM and AST get to keep the ones they already have built into them. Yes this would mean that WHM and AST would only have 9 Cross Role abilities, but who cares, it doesnt need to be symmetrical and you can bet SEs entire reason for combining Shroud of Saints and Luminiferous Aether into the Cross Role Lucid Dreaming and combining Esuna, Exalted Detriment and Leeches into the Cross Role Esuna, was just to make sure ALL the Healers had a Healer Cross Role menu that had 10 different abilities for the sake of an unnecessary symmetry -.-Quote:
Originally Posted by Phixx
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06-13-2017, 08:22 AMPhixxWell (as far as we know) they are nerfing Aetherflow mana regen to 10%, which will be the same as WHM gets from Assize. So now there is the chance that ALL the healers will need it and so they are relegating it to the Healer Role Abilities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ootarion
You keep ignoring the fact that these abilities can help ALL the healers do their job, that is why SE is creating a system that allows them all to access them. The healer can then pick and choose what they believe to be necessary to complete the content they are intending to do. If they were to individualize them based on job, what is even the point of the system?
Edit: I would like to point out that these are also not direct healing spells, but utility abilities. -
06-13-2017, 08:33 AMOotarionNot sure where in my previous post I said "Manas" but you asked "If they were to individualize them based on job, what is even the point of the system?" to that I say it is due to the simple fact that WHM has Esuna (Status Remover) and Shroud of Saints (MP refresher and Enmity reducer) built into WHM. AST has Exalted Detriment (Status Remover) and Luminiferous Aether (MP refresher but unlike Shroud of Saints does not reduce Enmity), and Scholar has Leeches (Status Remover) but what they never had was anything remotely the same as Shroud of Saints or Luminiferous Aether. But they dont have to take those things from WHM and AST just to give one to SCH as well. Furthermore, what is even the point in doing this? They took things that were core built into WHM and AST (which meant they didnt have to Cross Role them) and now those two healers have to Cross Role to use them, just to make SCHs have the same abilities.....they inconvenienced two healer classes just to make the third one feel better, which they didnt have to do....all they had to do was just give SCH an MP refresher of the same kind as WHM and AST and there you go....SCH has a built in MP Refresher....as for Leeches being learned at lvl 40, simple solution to that, just give them the spell at an earlier job class quest rather then a later one OR give the Arcanist a built in Cleanse spell that ONLY carries over to SCH and not SMN as well, which is perfectly possible to program....Quote:
Originally Posted by Phixx
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06-13-2017, 08:52 AMTaleraRistainProbably the same thing WHM will get at 40 for losing Divine Seal. Nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by dynus
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06-13-2017, 08:54 AMThunda_Cat_SMASHI can count on one hand the # of important debuffs that absolutely must be Esuna'd. For most DoTs, you can either heal through the damage, or the afflicted person can just use a free antidote at no charge to you, so you can keep dpsing. Paralysis? If it's not on a caster, very safe to ignore, as it's a very minor loss 90% of the time, and wasting time on an Esuna is an even bigger loss, especially since it's very possible for paralysis to never trip. Doom? Except for Death gaze Hollow, 100% avoidable, so if someone dies to it, it's on them, not the healer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Furious
I'd say status removal qualifies as button bloat, and I hate healer dps, despite using it as an example. -
06-13-2017, 09:03 AMOotarionAny extra damage can still make a fight end faster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH
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06-13-2017, 09:08 AMThunda_Cat_SMASHJust pointing out that if someone is pointing out an alternative they hate to be a better use of time than debuff removal, it really does point out how absolutely worthless debuff removal really is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ootarion
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06-13-2017, 09:10 AMFyceAs a SMN main, I'm contractually obligated to give you a gentle slap in the face for suggesting that we, SMN, should lose one skill from ACN just because of your tantrum on a system you dislike.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ootarion
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06-13-2017, 09:51 AMOotarionUmmmm I never once attempted to imply that SMN lose something.....I had said that whatever Debuff Removal Arcanist could learn prior to Scholar, is something that would only carry over to Scholar, I never said at all that something be removed from Arcanist that normally carries over to Summoner, only saying that the Debuff Remover that Arcanist could learn, would carry over to Scholar and not Summoner. Im sorry If I wasnt clearer on that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyce
Addendum: I see where you got the wrong impression, but the thing is, Arcanist as you know is a class that splits off into a Healer and DPS, so for as long as the Arcanist stays the Arcanist it is kind of a Healer/DPS hybrid, but the moment it goes SMN it no longer is a healer/dps hybrid, so why should Summoner retain the use of a Debuff Remover when Debuff Removal isnt the purpose of something that is primarily built to do damage? Granted I know Summoners can also Revive people but I normally only ever see a Summoner revive people in an emergency if the Healer cant for some reason and if Summoners suddenly had a Debuff Remover they can use all the time like Esuna, Exalted Detriment and Leeches, wouldnt that add to the already sheer amount of buttons that Summoner has? I mean I had to make a macro specifically designed to use Bio II, Miasma, Shadow Flare and Bio (exactly in that order) just to free up my hotbar space as a Summoner, and Im a lvl 53 Summoner right now, so i dont even have all the abilities yet but I am aware they get something called Tri-Disaster that applies Bio, Bio II and Miasma to a target. So I know from personal experience that they shouldnt add a Debuff Remover to the Job when they've got a huge array of usable abilities to begin with. -
06-13-2017, 10:09 AMPhixxThe thing is, it inconveniences SCH more because now we might have to take an MP refresh to use on top of Aetherflow, so your argument becomes a bit backwards and your solution puts SCH in the same bind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ootarion
This was your original argument. Mine is that not all of these spells are required all the time and that the devs are trying to consolidate the number of spells that each job has. You also need to remember that you cannot look at Healer Role Abilities in a vacuum, all roles are getting them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ootarion
With that in mind if they let us keep our dispels what would they replace it with? Why is it a bad design that you can now choose if you have your dispel or something else, other than it "wastes" what exactly?
- As a SCH, I don't need Protect for any dungeon before Brayflox's Longstop because my fairy is able to heal them without my assistance, therefore Protect is optional to me in those dungeons.
- AS1 has nothing to dispel, but phase 1 of that fight is where the group should be attempting to burn the boss; I can take Cleric Stance instead to increase my damage and make the fight easier.
I have 2 actual counterarguments though:
1: Of all the abilities listed, I consider Swiftcast to be the only one that is required for all healers at all times (high level content). You are never going to see a healer not take it. So if it is such a requirement, like you spout about the other abilities, why is it not baseline for healers; why aren't you arguing for it to be?
2: BRD and MCH both lost their MP and TP regens to Role Abilities, but I have not come across a thread where they are complaining, why is that? (Or can you find one to prove me wrong on this) -
06-13-2017, 10:28 AMOotarion1) You asked me "What would they replace it with?" I dont know, I personally feel the Cross Roles dont all have to have a total of 10 skills in them, Ive seen people make the comment that the only reason Esuna was added to Cross Role (which subsequently means that WHM, AST and SCHs lost their built in ones) simply to make the Healer Cross Role symmetrical by having a total of 10 skills just like Tank and DPS when the reality of it is, the Cross Roles dont need to have the same amount of skills.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phixx
2) I consider Swiftcast to be important as well, so then why haven't I suggested that it become a spell that all healers have inherently? Well before I answer that, I feel I should point out that this feels like a trick question in order to try and trap me in something. As for my answer, well as there is no other way for me to answer the question other then saying that I haven't suggested that they do so, because I often times dont need it in EARLIER level dungeons (and this is where Im betting Im going to be told that Debuff Removers are just the same, but I dont agree to that), infact I would say that ive had more instances of needing a Debuff Remover in most dungeons then Ive needed Swiftcast, infact right now Ive got Swiftcast set as a lvl 40 Cross Class.
3) As for BRD and MCH, I never knew that they were having these things taken from them. Had I known that, I would have openly spoken out in disapproval, and I don't even main as BRD or MCH. Why would I speak out in defense of classes I don't even main? Because I see things such as MP and TP regenerative abilities (even though TP regenerates reasonably fast on it's own) as important must haves, and if they had them as part of their core kit, then there is a reason they do.
I feel I should point out that if the Cross Role had an extra slot or two and not just 5 usable slots, then I think people might be a bit more receptive of the change, some people Ive seen comment on the matter are upset because they, like myself, feel that the only GOOD skills from the Healer Cross Role are Esuna, Protect, Lucid Dreaming, Largesse and Swiftcast, infact Ive seen people in this thread say something to that same effect. These abilities are so good, that abilities like Surecast, Break, Eye for an Eye, Rescue and Cleric Stance will rarely see the light of day cause they are so situational.
For example
1) Surecast: Ive never had to use Surecast cause if the Tank(s) is doing their job, I shouldnt be getting hit so often that Im interrupted in the middle of a cast
2) Break: Ive never really needed a slow (Stone 1 as WHM or Stella as AST) cause Ive got Holy (WHM) and Celestial Opposition (AST) as CC, plus as a WHM I can put enemies to sleep to give me breathing room. Arcanists have Miasma which they learn at lvl 10, which among the plethora of other things it afflicts a target with, it slows them as well.
3) Eye for an Eye: I don't not even know how many times Ive ever seen this used, if Ive even ever seen it getting used all that much, Ive maybe seen it used a total of 5 times ever in my time playing and this is counting the one or two times that Ive given it a try while playing as my Scholar. I can see the usefulness of it, but at the same time, again, Ive barely seen it being used, it comes off as an either unwanted or useless ability (correct me if I am wrong).
4) Rescue: I can see how this would actually be nice for when you are partying with people who either A) Are not paying attention to where they are standing or B) Are new to a mechanic and need to be saved. But, by the same token, if people know to move and not stand in the path of a very much so avoidable attack, then this ability isnt going to see much use, unless it works on people who are frozen and are they themselves unable to move under their own power. But in most cases, if you are in a static group or even pugs with people who clearly know what they are doing, this ability is going to be pretty useless.
5) Cleric Stance: What's there to say? I mean 5% extra damage is nice indeed, would be even nicer though if I could have this and my 5 other desired abilities equipped, IE Esuna, Protect, Lucid Dreaming, Largesse and Swiftcast but given what Ive seen I know I cant. But by the same token Im likely never to use Cleric Stance since that extra 5% while nice, just doesnt quite compare to the usefulness (at least to me) of my 5 preferred. -
06-13-2017, 11:18 AMFuriousAwesome; I shall expect to see your support for moving all scholar heals to cross-class abilities as well in the near future.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phixx
Debuff removal is there for if and when you need it, sometimes unexpectedly. Shit happens, all the time.
They won't always take them, especially not TP. Depends on group composition and content. These just aren't the same kinds of ability as debuff removal is. Furthermore, the options that they do have now no longer reduce their own damage, so who's going to complain about that?Quote:
2: BRD and MCH both lost their MP and TP regens to Role Abilities, but I have not come across a thread where they are complaining, why is that?
There are two types of ability in cross class and one shouldn't be there. There are abilities that you don't always need or want to have, and there are abilities that are there only because they want all roles to have them, so they shoved them into the hole. As I said; you could put all cures into cross class and the argument would be the same. Sometimes you don't need to cure. Ergo; you should have the ability to choose something else, right? Same with healer dps abilities! Why do I have to have dps abilities?! I should be able to pick more utility instead! (lolol)
No. -
06-13-2017, 12:20 PMPhixx
You guys keep saying that you "need" these abilities all the time. If that is the case then you can simply take them with the new role ability system, but apparently SE thinks that you don't always need them and therefor is allowing you the choice of taking them or to option of having a couple of other situational abilities.
These abilities were added here from baseline because SE wants to limit everyone to a certain amount of skills to not overwhelm the more casual population of the game with too many buttons. Please also remember that this system is replacing the cross class system which had no flexibility either. You don't always need Swiftcast, you don't always need a dispel, you don't always need a healing CD. But if you feel like your healer toolkit requires them, then take them, but other my not agree and they have the option of picking something else.
If it is truly as bad as you feel, maybe you should offer a suggestion that could replace it. -
06-13-2017, 12:34 PMOotarionThe suggestion would be to just leave the Healer Cleansers, Heal Power buffs, and MP refreshers that Healers have as part of their core kit. Everything else in the Healer Cross Role is fine. My only other suggestion would be to give Scholars a Cleanser that they get as their core kit at an earlier level for crying out loud. Like make it an Arcanist Ability that carries over to Scholar and maybe to Summoner (thing is Summoners already have a huge array of buttons as is, alot of which are DoTs).Quote:
Originally Posted by Phixx
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06-13-2017, 12:41 PMFuriousAn empty crossclass slot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phixx
Don't take away core role mechanics for the sake of "filling 10 slots instead of 9".
For the record, there is no possible way that it becomes less confusing when you need to switch abilities on your bar to other abilities depending on the fight, so the argument that that is the reason why it is being done is ridiculous. This isn't better for the casual population either. Do you think a casual healer is going to feel less confused when he goes to dispel a mechanic and nothing happens, as he searches around the screen to find out why and notices cleric stance is active when he didn't think he had it?
This isn't an ability that added undue confusion; it has a very specific and obvious purpose. It doesn't interact with other abilities, it's not part of a combo, it was not in the least problematic. It's a basic, core healer mechanic that new players will now see as an option instead of an ability. -
06-13-2017, 12:44 PMLegoTechnicWhile Leeches was always level 40, Selene gets her AoE cleanse (Fey Caress), at level 20 (meaning she has it when you get her at level 30).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ootarion
ARC are DPS before then, so they don't need it prior to being a SCH. -
06-13-2017, 12:50 PMOotarionThank you for that correction LegoTechnic, but this just furthers my point. They shouldnt do this to the Healers.Quote:
Originally Posted by LegoTechnic
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06-13-2017, 01:01 PMLunali
All the arguments here are ignoring a far more important point. By making the skill optional, some healers will decide not to take it, even when they should.
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06-13-2017, 01:08 PMThunda_Cat_SMASHIf the DPS are getting hit by avoidable debuffs, then they need to git gud. I'm not gonna lose DPS cause they can't avoid a DoT that only does 2k damage for 15 seconds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunali
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06-13-2017, 01:11 PMLegoTechnicMost debuffs you'd want to cleanse aren't avoidable, though?Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH
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06-13-2017, 01:20 PMOotarionIndeed, and Ive also learned btw, that White Mage Cure and Cure II are getting buffed by 50 Potency, this means that Cure will have 450 Cure Potency (up from 400) and Cure II will have 700 (up from 650) which makes Cure II ANOTHER Tetragrammaton which is an instant cast 700 Cure Potency Spell that White Mage gets at lvl 60. While spells like Benefic (which has a Cure Potency of 400 like Cure used to have) and Benefic II (which has a Cure Potency of 650 like Cure II use to have) are gonna get out shined by Cure and Cure II, would someone explain to me why White Mages need even better healing then they already had? Ive been told more then once that based on pure numbers, White Mages before Stormblood had the best numbers in terms of Healing power. With this buff, I feel like my AST (I main both WHM and AST equally) is being stepped on unfairly, yes I get that AST brings a whole lot of other things to the table, but the end result point is, DO....WHMs.....REALLY need this kind of buff? I mean Ive seen all the other amazing things they are getting in SB, like Thin Air which makes all their MP costs ZERO for 12 seconds, and a powerful AoE heal, and a new Stone IV, come on do they really need even more ridiculous amounts of healing? I main a WHM and Im saying this.Quote:
Originally Posted by LegoTechnic
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06-13-2017, 01:24 PMFuriousLet's flip that around:Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH
If the game is in a state where it is more valuable to continue dpsing than to dispel debuffs as a healer, something is wrong. Healers should be dpsing in their downtime, but not in lieu of the job they are there for.