30 Minute Lockout for Leaving Roulette's isn't Working as Intended.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Yeah, right. Explain why the vast majority of the time I see people bail from a duty it's before the DUTY COMMENCED even appears on the screen, then?

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LOL.. this made my day.....!!! I would pay you a drink if you were in my server..LOL

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

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Definitely more efficient (and sanity saving) to do it my way then waste my time on people like you.

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Originally Posted by Dorander

Definitely more efficient (and sanity saving) to do it my way and don't give a damn about other then waste my time on people like you.

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FIXED.

You're the paragon of this community

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

FIXED.

You're the paragon of this community

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I won't deny it. I really don't give a damn about anyone else that plays. What's your point?

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Originally Posted by Dorander

Think about things realistically, instead of rainbow happy flowers. People are selfish, and only in it for themselves. Take away their reward for 'helping' someone else or punishing them harshly for not helping, and they will completely avoid the situation in the future, and find other ways to get around it.

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This is the illusion of the selfish, of course. They know that they are like this, and so assume that everyone else is like this as well. Thankfully, this is not the case. We wouldn't even have a civilization in the first place, if this was the case. Self-interested is not the same as selfish. You can desire something for yourself, and still work together with others to ensure that they are rewarded, as well. It's why you can have things like pony farms where players DON'T bail as soon as their pony drops. Most individuals understand that helping others to succeed will help themselves to succeed, as well. Helping others to improve will improve the general quality of the player base, making it more likely that future instances will run more smoothly.

I fully admit to being an optimist, but I don't believe I am a naïve one. The horror stories you read on the forums should not be seen as typical in-game behaviors. When something bad happens, folks have the urge to post. That's all. Have you ever finished a dungeon and thought to yourself, "Boy, that was adequate, and got the job done! I should post about this on Lodestone!" Of course not. Heck, even dazzling successes rarely earn that honor. No, the forums present the game as a cesspool of unteachable n00bs and insufferable trolls because those are the incidents that give people the urge to post, not because those incidents are the norm.

My experiences in this game indicate to me that this is the case. I've played since ARR release, and spent a LOT of time in Duty Finder instances. I have run into my share of bad players and trolls, but they are a miniscule fraction of the total number I've encountered.

Edit: Also, note that when I say to "help people", I'm not insisting that you take them by the hand and tell them what to do. Simply being silent can be enough, allowing them to learn on their own. It will take longer, certainly, but it's still a form of help. Verbal abuse instills a feeling of frustration and depression; not at all helpful for learning. Rage-quitting renders them unable to improve, as well, since they can't proceed through the instance. You don't have to help them - but try not to hinder them, either.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

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Ilusion of the selfish, more like the naivety of the foolish. Civilization only 'developed' because it was safer to be in numbers than it was alone. I mean, if your neighbor gets eaten by the lion as you run away, sounds like you win. Or would you have tried to help them and get eaten also? Everyone is in it for themselves, don't delude yourself. People would sooner step on your head to reach an apple than hold you up willingly and hope you pick two.

You bring up pony farms as your example for people not bailing. Have you ever done one? Rarely do they go more than like 4-5 runs before someone leaves, and most I've noticed have a 'clause' that says stick around for (insert this many runs) after you win. Why would they need to specify that if people don't bail after they get what they want?

I've also played ARR since release, also spending just as much time in DF as you probably. The majority of people I've run into, just want to get through the dungeon swiftly and efficiently, and only see the 3, 7, 23 other people there as a means to an end. Sometimes they go just to 'stir the pot' but more often than not.. just want to get it done.

It is a vexing problem, to be sure. The only thing I can think is to increment the penalty based upon how many times you've dropped recently. You could even have it stored by-instance, so if you'll be punished more for the instances you leave more.

So if you leave an instance, you start at a 30 minute penalty, with a flag added to your account. If you leave the instance early within a month of that first quit, you'll get hit with a 45-minute penalty. Leave again before a month has passed, and you'll get hit with a 60-minute queue penalty. When the first month wears off, it goes back down to 45 minutes, and when it's been a month since the second quit, you go back down to 30 minutes.

They could also introduce a system wherein people who don't leave instances prematurely are given priority in DF over those that do, but that could be really tricky to implement, and could slow down what is actually a remarkably quick queueing tool.

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Originally Posted by Jpec07

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Then people would just fake a D/C and wait to be kicked. Logging out for 30 minutes (same as if they left now) is more than enough time to get kicked out of any dungeon. Which, people already do now. What we have is the best that can be done about it. Sorrynotsorry that it's adversely affecting you, but wait for a someone to fill the spot or requeue.

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Originally Posted by Dorander

Then people would just fake a D/C and wait to be kicked. Logging out for 30 minutes (same as if they left now) is more than enough time to get kicked out of any dungeon. Which, people already do now. What we have is the best that can be done about it. Sorrynotsorry that it's adversely affecting you, but wait for a someone to fill the spot or requeue.

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Except that the argument that people who want to leave will do so regardless is inane.

The penalty keeps people there as is. Some people are willing to eat a 30 minute penalty; others aren't. The more severe you make the penalty, the less likely people will be to leave. Yes, some will just force the DC and pray for the vote-kick, but the percentage of those is low, and would remain low if the penalty were increased.

I'll vote-kick and carry on for now, but this does not preclude the fact that people dropping from instances is a problem that needs further attention from the developers.

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Originally Posted by Jpec07

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Yes, if the penalty was more harsh people wouldn't leave on their own accord. They'd force the rest of the group to kick them to get around it, by either:

A - Faking a D/C to be kicked.
B - Just standing there at the door waiting for you to get fed up and kick them.
C - Not healing, flashing, only auto attacking, again slowing down the run to a crawl till they are kicked.

Then what? Come and complain on the forums that vote to kick should be removed, or those that are kicked need to have a 12 hour penalty? 30 minutes for leaving is the most acceptable 'punishment' for leaving a duty. As other's have said most people go do something else like craft, gather, ect till their timer is up, and queue back in. One keeps players playing, (and therefor subbing) and the other would make subs vanish. Fewer players = longer queue times, and you are still 'stuck' with the wasted time you all are initially complaining about. It's a no win scenario, and guess what.. that's life.

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Originally Posted by Dorander

Yes, if the penalty was more harsh people wouldn't leave on their own accord. They'd force the rest of the group to kick them to get around it, by either:

A - Faking a D/C to be kicked.
B - Just standing there at the door waiting for you to get fed up and kick them.
C - Not healing, flashing, only auto attacking, again slowing down the run to a crawl till they are kicked.

Then what? Come and complain on the forums that vote to kick should be removed, or those that are kicked need to have a 12 hour penalty? 30 minutes for leaving is the most acceptable 'punishment' for leaving a duty. As other's have said most people go do something else like craft, gather, ect till their timer is up, and queue back in. One keeps players playing, (and therefor subbing) and the other would make subs vanish. Fewer players = longer queue times, and you are still 'stuck' with the wasted time you all are initially complaining about. It's a no win scenario, and guess what.. that's life.

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And that's when you report them after you've vote-kicked them and completed the instance. If someone queued for a roulette and then decides to troll the group because they don't like the content they got, that is harassment, and is suitable grounds for being reported and, as other recent threads have shown, banned.

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Originally Posted by Dorander

A - Faking a D/C to be kicked.
B - Just standing there at the door waiting for you to get fed up and kick them.
C - Not healing, flashing, only auto attacking, again slowing down the run to a crawl till they are kicked.

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A - You realize that you purposely prevent yourself from playing just to avoid a duty that might be too long to your liking? You could decide to walk around with a beacon and a siren shouting "I'm a jerk", it would be less obvious.
B/C - Yes please, do that. Troll the duty that obviously so that people can report you while you're still in the Duty and really easy to track. Please, do it, I beg of you :)

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Originally Posted by Jpec07

And that's when you report them after you've vote-kicked them and completed the instance. If someone queued for a roulette and then decides to troll the group because they don't like the content they got, that is harassment, and is suitable grounds for being reported and, as other recent threads have shown, banned.

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The only one that could even remotely be punishable would be B, and that's only if they announced they wanted to be kicked and a screenshot was taken. Who knows? Maybe an IRL emergency happened and they had to run away from the computer/PS4? With A - SE would err on the side of caution. Not everyone has the most stable internet. and C - Bads play all the time and never get into any trouble. How are you to know they aren't impaired in some fashion and that's the best they can do?

That's why when you report people they investigate, and more often than not, if there isn't sufficient evidence for a ban they aren't going to do squat.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

A - You realize that you purposely prevent yourself from playing just to avoid a duty that might be too long to your liking? You could decide to walk around with a beacon and a siren shouting "I'm a jerk", it would be less obvious.
B/C - Yes please, do that. Troll the duty that obviously so that people can report you while you're still in the Duty and really easy to track. Please, do it, I beg of you :)

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See my post right bellow yours, That should answer everything you have to say.

If someone wants to stand by the door and not help, they can not help all the way to the final boss and get a kick there.
If they want to try to get out of wasting time, they can do it to the most extreme measure.

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Originally Posted by Dorander

The only one that could even remotely be punishable would be B, and that's only if they announced they wanted to be kicked and a screenshot was taken. Who knows? Maybe an IRL emergency happened and they had to run away from the computer/PS4? With A - SE would err on the side of caution. Not everyone has the most stable internet. and C - Bads play all the time and never get into any trouble. How are you to know they aren't impaired in some fashion and that's the best they can do?

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You're right, A should not be punishable. But since it prevents from playing your character for as long as you suppose the party won't kick you, it will be very fun to keep those players in the duty and kick them juuuust before ending the dungeon. The best part is that, by doing so, we're actually really nice to people that really have a connexion issue and couln't come back right away, while still pissing people who fake D/C. Perfect.

Don't worry, people can tell the difference between bad players and trolls, especially in duty roulette, where every content can be facerolled. Again, be my guest and do it.

Of course, putting a harsher penalty will not prevent everyone from leaving duties, but they'll do it when they really need to. And frankly, If I have a real emergeny, then I don't give a damn about what virtual penalty I can suffer in a video game...

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Originally Posted by Dorander

Ilusion of the selfish, more like the naivety of the foolish.

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Oh, and by the way, there's neither naivety or foolishness in our mindset. Helping other is not a abstract concept that we have no way of really experiencing. We can do it, and it does not prevent us from having fun in the game. It can even earn us some respect from a bunch of faceless strangers, or even create a true bond. That's how you meet people, and how you can find some linkshell, or compagnies to help you progress in the game.

I feel you are forgetting that if someone disconnected and see they are still there they simply may choose to stay disconnected until the timer runs out.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Oh, and by the way, there's neither naivety or foolishness in our mindset. Helping other is not a abstract concept that we have no way of really experiencing. We can do it, and it does not prevent us from having fun in the game. It can even earn us some respect from a bunch of faceless strangers, or even create a true bond. That's how you meet people, and how you can find some linkshell, or compagnies to help you progress in the game.

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Besides Savages and Seph EX, you don't need anyone else to 'help you progress' in the game. Duty Finder works perfect as is. You just 'want' or 'need' those people for some reason.

As for everything else: then all I can say is have fun doing all your dungeons short manned. It'll be rough, hopefully you don't get frustrated.

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Originally Posted by ShadowYomi

I feel you are forgetting that if someone disconnected and see they are still there they simply may choose to stay disconnected until the timer runs out.

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So, to avoid a potentially 40 minutes dungeon, they'll stay disconnected for 40 minutes ?
Real efficient !

There's a trope for that.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

There's a trope for that.

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Should we credit some of the folks here in the "Real Life" section ? :p

Too niche at best.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Yes, people gravitates towards the least effort, but the more you ease everything, the more they ask for an easier way. That'exactly why the roulette was created, to ease tome farming. And people still complain...

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Nobody is complaining about the "good" dungeons / trials / guildhests from their roulette.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

So, to avoid a potentially 40 minutes dungeon, they'll stay disconnected for 40 minutes ?
Real efficient !

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To avoid wasting 40 minutes of their time for an awful reward, they'd rather go play another game or do something else more productive for 40 minutes. Is that something you want as a fan of this game? For people to go play another game? Because that's what punishment does. It forces people away. Why would they deal with getting punished in this game when they can go have fun and be rewarded in another?

Nothing is fun about punishment.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

So what ? We should feel sorry for those who don't want to finish a dungeon and just leave you there because the last part is not Xp efficient ? We should feel sorry for those who leave a 24-man raid when a boss doesn't drop the one thing they want or they just lose the roll ?
And what should we say to those penalized by that ? "Deal with it" ?

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No, I am saying that rather than bad ideas, empty rhetoric, and demagoguing, that we should look at the problem from a rational and logical perspective rather than one filled with spite.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

What collateral damage ? If you take a penalty when purposely withdrawing or staying AFK for so long that the duty automatically kicks you out, how can you end up being a "collateral" damage ?

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The collateral damage is the many people who genuinely need to leave a duty. It might be an emergency. It might be an unstable internet connection. There will be innocent people who are impacted by harsher leaver penalties.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Of course they don't, since it costs them nothing apart from a little slap on the wrist. It's like in real life, If all you risk by breaking a rule is "Oh, that's not nice", then you'll just break it all the time.

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I hate to make this political but your stance has been proven wrong in reality and in practice time and time again. The war on drugs is not working. The mass incarceration culture is not working. The police state is not working. Meanwhile you have numerous credible studies about the far better impact and effectiveness of positive reinforcement and rehabilitation. But no, you're a bitter, spiteful, petty little man who is more concerned with punishing people than the health of the game.

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Originally Posted by Brian_

No, I am saying that rather than bad ideas, empty rhetoric, and demagoguing, that we should look at the problem from a rational and logical perspective rather than one filled with spite.

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People are jerks, there's your problem.

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Originally Posted by Brian_

It might be an emergency.

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If you have an emergency, your biggest concern will be "Oh, shoot, I took a penalty from the Duty Finder" ? Seriously ?

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Originally Posted by Brian_

It might be an unstable internet connection.

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Losing connexion doesn't put you out of a duty. Being kicked doesn't give you any penalty. Have you read what I wrote ?

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Originally Posted by Brian_

I hate to make this political but your stance has been proven wrong in reality and in practice time and time again.

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Yeah, because video games are just like reality, right ? When was the last time you were banned of real life for making fake money ? When was the last time you were kicked out of the mall for idling too much ?

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

People are jerks, there's your problem.

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I highly doubt the majority of droppers are doing it just to troll. They're doing it for practical reasons. As such, there is an equally pragmatic solution. And, it's not punishing them.

But you are just proving my point. Your perspective is that these people are jerks so you have to retaliate. That's not how you fix a problem. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, two wrongs don't make a right, etc.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

If you have an emergency, your biggest concern will be "Oh, shoot, I took a penalty from the Duty Finder" ? Seriously ?

Losing connexion doesn't put you out of a duty. Being kicked doesn't give you any penalty. Have you read what I wrote ?

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The point is that when someone has an emergency, it doesn't need to be some life altering disaster. And, it might not even take 30 minutes to deal with (or however long you're proposing to extend the penalty to). Sometimes I will get a work related phone call. I would rather drop group than force them to wait an indefinite amount of time. Maybe the phone call is 5 minutes. Maybe it turns into a series of phone calls that lasts a few hours. As for the connection issues, sometimes when you zone in you will notice yourself spiking or repeatedly disconnecting. Many will just apologize and drop group so that they can find someone else. Why should that group need to wait to vote kick just to avoid the penalty?

Are you seriously arguing that there is never a genuine situation where a person has to drop group?

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Originally Posted by Brian_

Are you seriously arguing that there is never a genuine situation where a person has to drop group?

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It's funny how many "genuine situation" seem to happen right at the start of the dungeon...and not after several minutes where you could kick the person right away if he does not come back or even said anything.
You know, something like "Sorry, phone". You know what might happen if you say this ? People could go on without you for trash mobs and even wait a little before engaging the boss to give you time to finish your call.

Besides, what I suggested would only apply when you quit a roulette, not just any duty. So your genuine situation is when you have an emergency, right from the start of the roulette, without having anytime to say "Sorry, problem", yet still not important enough so that you'd still get concerned by being punished in the game.

However, I admit that you should be able to do an abandon vote without any time restriction, for situations where you cannot continue the Duty right from the beginning.

Greetings,

Thank you for the feedback you've been offering in regards to the penalty for leaving duties. I'd like to give you some insight into how the current penalty was decided.

The current penalty was set with the following circumstances in mind:

• Users abandoning a duty continuously while trying to get placed into a specific duty
• Users leaving a duty because of emergency situations that arose outside of the game

While we don't currently have any plans to adjust the penalty, we want to continue to gather your feedback on the topic so we can let the dev. team know your thoughts on the situation. With that said, please continue to keep your feedback coming on this topic!

The current penalty is fine. The real issue is how long it can take to get a party started, or replace a leaver.

There's a serious lack of tanks, always. Healers are also lacking but not as badly. The incentive for being an "Adventurer in Need" needs buffed significantly. Gil is worthless.
There's also NO WAY to know a party in progress needs a replacement, without queuing for them.

A big problem with the shortage of tanks/healers is how wonky the queue system is. I've had many FC members and other acquaintances ask for a tank/heal to JIP, but then when I try to jump in and help them out, I'll get shunted into a brand new run instead. I honestly think in-progress runs should take precedence over new runs even if the new runs are technically before them in the queue. The in-progress run has one or more people that already have time invested into it, plus it has a hard time limit on it.

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Originally Posted by Dorander

If someone is being rude, talking more than healing/dps'ing/tank cooldowns, I will vote kick them. They are impeding the run. If that fails to go through, I will leave on my own. I refuse to spend 40 minutes in a dungeon that can be run in 20, just because someone else is dragging their feet and being a chatty cathy.

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That has to be the least efficient way to do roulettes ever.

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Originally Posted by KariArisu

There's also NO WAY to know a party in progress needs a replacement, without queuing for them.

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Actually this may be a good direction to take. Make modifications to the duty finder to display if duties need roles for any in-progress party and display it on the corresponding roulette too.

Honestly there is never going to be an end to this argument. Because the jerks who simply don't care if they inconvenience you, will never care regardless of how harsh the penalty is because they'll simply go do something else. End of the day making the punishment too severe will change nothing in that regards but make the duty finder a wasteland, I shudder at the queue times for dps were such a thing to occur.

These type of players are in it for themselves, its all about their time, not yours or the groups and its up to them what they do with it. If they leave you in the dust and you are now waiting 30minutes for a tank or healer because they can't be bothered with a particular dungeon because "Oh nuuu it may take more than 20mintues woe is me and what's this!? A green leaf!? I don't have time to teach tactics, they should have researched everything weeks in advance cause learning on the go is for idiots. My time is so valuable! I'm gonna be a jerk and leave and go do something productive for 30 minutes until I can try again, it sucks to be that team I just left, oh well not like I care!"

You may as well be talking to a brick wall because they'll never see eye to eye with the people who want others to have a fun, fair and enjoyable experience without anyone being inconvenienced.

Just something we've got to live with.

But it still doesn't stop me from despising the people who get into a rage whenever there are new people, they won't teach them anything, and will instead just belittle them or kick them because they didn't look up tactics in advance. Cause heaven forbid people wanting to play the game blind if its their first time in a dungeon, if you know they are new and they aren't asking for tactics because did you ever consider they might be too shy or terrified to face the wrath of the jerks? It takes nothing to spend a couple minutes to outline how a boss works yet people treat it as the most horrible thing in the world.

I've seen so many mentors with this attitude that its honestly sickening and they are making a mockery of the mentor system cause they simply unlocked it to have a crown next to their name so they feel special and superior.

Yet at the same time these are the same jerks who won't go into new content blind, they'll sit and wait for others to figure out for them cause they want to put in the least amount of effort for the most reward. But they'll never offer the same courtesy back, when it costs nothing, absolutely nothing other than a small fragment of your time that is really not as valuable as you think it is.

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Originally Posted by NaesakiAshwell

You may as well be talking to a brick wall because they'll never see eye to eye with the people who want others to have a fun, fair and enjoyable experience without anyone being inconvenienced.

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Not possible. They either leave and inconvenience others or stay and inconvenience themselves.

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But it still doesn't stop me from despising the people who get into a rage whenever there are new people, they won't teach them anything, and will instead just belittle them or kick them because they didn't look up tactics in advance. Cause heaven forbid people wanting to play the game blind if its their first time in a dungeon, if you know they are new and they aren't asking for tactics because did you ever consider they might be too shy or terrified to face the wrath of the jerks? It takes nothing to spend a couple minutes to outline how a boss works yet people treat it as the most horrible thing in the world.

Yet at the same time these are the same jerks who won't go into new content blind, they'll sit and wait for others to figure out for them cause they want to put in the least amount of effort for the most reward. But they'll never offer the same courtesy back, when it costs nothing, absolutely nothing other than a small fragment of your time that is really not as valuable as you think it is.

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Going in blind and getting told the mechanics are mutually exclusive. If you want to be told the mechanics, look it up beforehand instead. If you don't want to be told the mechanics, make a premade.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Going in blind and getting told the mechanics are mutually exclusive. If you want to be told the mechanics, look it up beforehand instead. If you don't want to be told the mechanics, make a premade.

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Its only mutually exclusive if you allow it to be that way...

More often than not, the newer players who want it all to be a fresh experience and want to do it blind as much as they can, cause looking it up beforehand defeats the purpose of experiencing it all first hand and are then ultimately too scared to ask for the tactics because more often than not they'll just receive abuse for it if they aren't already for messing up in a fight.

I think the better solution is to provide a better incentive to finish the dungeons that people tend to bail on. Could also add a bonus if someone joins an in progress for one of the dungeons that people tend to not want to do to help people get their runs done. Harsher penalties would just increase the people who start demanding to be kicked instead of taking their penalty.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

That has to be the least efficient way to do roulettes ever.

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I can easily go do something else for 30 minutes. That in of itself is enough to finish a daily 'chore' (examples: beast tribe quest, centurio seal hunts, ect) by the time my penalty is up. Then I re-queue and get into another dungeon with more than likely better people, and that run is faster. My original group is at best just getting to the last boss if they found a replacement and it wasn't vote abandoned due to continued failure. So by the time I'm finishing up my roulette, I'm already a good step ahead of those three people who were dragging their feet/screwing up, with my dailies.

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Originally Posted by KariArisu

There's also NO WAY to know a party in progress needs a replacement, without queuing for them.

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Originally Posted by Sicno

Actually this may be a good direction to take. Make modifications to the duty finder to display if duties need roles for any in-progress party and display it on the corresponding roulette too.

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Isn't this what the 'player in need' thing should reflect?

Edit: Ah, I think I misread it.
Yes, it would be helpful if in-progress parties were somehow displayed on the DF. You can still know if there's a party in progress that needs replacement via linkshell or novice network, but it's clunky.
It would also help if they had priority. I've seen more than a few times where I tried to join someone in-progress and was instead matched with a new party.

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Originally Posted by Sicno

"Adventurer in need" refers to what role is needed for QUEUES, not for the duties currently in-progress.

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I would still stand by that it 'should' show this here.

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Originally Posted by Pells

Isn't this what the 'player in need' thing should reflect?

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"Adventurer in need" refers to what role is needed for QUEUES, not for the duties currently in-progress.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Not possible. They either leave and inconvenience others or stay and inconvenience themselves.




Going in blind and getting told the mechanics are mutually exclusive. If you want to be told the mechanics, look it up beforehand instead. If you don't want to be told the mechanics, make a premade.

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I actually think it's the other way round, if you don't want to put up with new people in dungeons make a premade. The Duty Finder is there for how the dungeon it is meant to be played. Want to watch cutscenes watch them, want to go in blind and have surprises go for it. Only time I will ever watch a video is for Savage/Ex primals. I think this is why update day is my favourite everyone is in the same boat, people talk to work out strategies, people have a laugh.But that is why I mainly only do DF with FC members and only grab the odd DPS every so often. We chat and have fun whilst getting the job done.

Also getting all pissy with the new person just makes the run worse as it stresses them out and makes them even more careless.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

A big problem with the shortage of tanks/healers is how wonky the queue system is. I've had many FC members and other acquaintances ask for a tank/heal to JIP, but then when I try to jump in and help them out, I'll get shunted into a brand new run instead. I honestly think in-progress runs should take precedence over new runs even if the new runs are technically before them in the queue. The in-progress run has one or more people that already have time invested into it, plus it has a hard time limit on it.

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I was confused by this, too - but then, a couple of occurrences opened my eyes to something folks don't always notice.

I was running a dungeon, and a DPS dropped. We continued on to the end of the dungeon short a member, marveling at how long it was taking to replace a DPS, of all things. Just as we approached the final boss, I noticed something: The Duty panel did not show the text "Searching for members..." It turned out that the party leader had never confirmed the search for new members! The moment he did so, a DPS popped right in.

On another, similar occasion, this time the tank was gone. I was on SMN, so was able to Titan-Egi tank for a while - and then, I noticed, once again, no "Searching for members..." We turned it on, and while a tank didn't pop right in, one did show up eventually.

On another occasion, I got word from a Linkshell that their tank had disappeared, asking if anyone could replace. I swapped to tank and attempted to do so, and ended up in a brand-new instance. I was savvy this time, though, and asked the group, "Does your Duty panel show "Searching for members..."?" At first they didn't know what I meant, but after I explained, yes, it turned out that their leader had never selected to search for new members. They turned that on, someone else in the LS signed up as tank, and popped right in.

I don't know the reason these different leaders did not start the search. In all three cases, they certainly WANTED to get new members in, but somehow they either refused, or were never presented with the option. At any rate, the next time you queue up for a run in progress and wind up in a new instance, ask the party if they're properly searching for new members.

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Originally Posted by Sicno

Actually this may be a good direction to take. Make modifications to the duty finder to display if duties need roles for any in-progress party and display it on the corresponding roulette too.

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The problem I see with this, is then you get lazy players who want to spend less time in dungeon, who don't even bother to sign up unless there are runs-in-progress to join. This reduces the pool of players willing to sign up for a full dungeon.

There were once threads requesting a button that will ONLY sign players up for runs-in-progress, rather than either-or like we have now, and the idea was shut down for exactly this reason. SE WANTS to get players in for full runs.