What Roles would you like for Samurai and Red Mage?

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Originally Posted by AzraelX

Seems like ff14 takes ideas from ff14 and SAM IN THAT GAME used busier/ sword spirits to do attacks.

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MMMkay........

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Originally Posted by AzraelX

ff14 takes ideas from ff14

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Originally Posted by AzraelX

I have this poll on reddit and it seems like majority - 58-60% want SAM as a DPS n RD as a melee/caster DPS

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Because the poll is pointless, it's always going to be skewed towards DPS because more players play DPS and naturally they want more jobs to be DPS jobs.

It says a lot more that there's only a 8-10% lead for them to be DPS over tanks when you look at the numbers of DPS players there are compared to tank players.


Also, people fail to realize that if we get Samurai as a DPS, it won't wear "medium" armor like dragoon. It'll be like this:
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And not this:
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And that's following what Yoshi-P imagines when he thinks of a samurai (the former).

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

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Just wondering, where did Yoshida say what he believes a Samurai should wear in FFXIV? Regardless of all that, you're bound to get lookalike sets of both of those armours at one point or another if SAM is introduced. Take NIN for example, their first AF armour is quite heavy and I'm assuming it's made for non-stealthy combat, while the AF2 looks much lighter. Do you honestly think the development team would restrict their designers to something like the first picture only? They'd have to get very creative for the sets not to get boring.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

Because the poll is pointless, it's always going to be skewed towards DPS because more players play DPS and naturally they want more jobs to be DPS jobs.

It says a lot more that there's only a 8-10% lead for them to be DPS over tanks when you look at the numbers of DPS players there are compared to tank players.

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Glad to know I'm not the only one thinking that way. Indeed, fan polls will always skew towards DPS because apparently Tank and Healer roles are boring because they focus on something OTHER than just "Kill everything."

Us Tanks and Healers need diversity among new jobs too.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

Just wondering, where did Yoshida say what he believes a Samurai should wear in FFXIV? Regardless of all that, you're bound to get lookalike sets of both of those armours at one point or another if SAM is introduced. Take NIN for example, their first AF armour is quite heavy and I'm assuming it's made for non-stealthy combat, while the AF2 looks much lighter. Do you honestly think the development team would restrict their designers to something like the first picture only? They'd have to get very creative for the sets not to get boring.

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Pretty much the very first article where Yoshi-P mentions Samurai as a dps that everyone got the idea that Yoshi P claims it's only going to be a dps. In the interview, he states that in his mind, he pictures samurai as kinagashi wearing iaido users. And that that image lends itself to a DPS and not a tank (Which is right, a cloth wearing dextrous fighter fits FFXIV's definition of DPS more than a tank.) He specifically mentions them wearing kinagashi and using iaido.

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僕の中の侍のイメージは、着流しに刀を下げ、居合の達人という感じです。

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着流し = Kinagashi. 居合 = Iaido.

Wasn't allowed to vote ;_; I suspect my room mate's already voted and it counts us as the same IP address.

I'd say SAM for melee dps -- they strike me as a "heavy armour" dps class, which would make excellent sense to share gearsets with DRG.
(As for someone commenting we don't have a 2H melee dps.... What about them polearms/spears/lances the Dragoons use? O.o You hold those with one hand?)

With RDM, I could see them going either dps, dps/support or healer. While my preference would be one of the first two, I'd want them to be melee whichever role they filled. (A melee healer would certainly be... interesting.)
My reason is pretty simple, though. I haven't played FF11, so my personal sense of how Red Mage works is, "uses light swords/rapiers, can learn up to mid-tier black and white magic". And while WHM/BLM rods and staffs are pretty much melee weapons as such (same with the books, if you want to auto-attack), I think it would be a shame to relegate RDM's rapiers to a similar status of 'magic focus' instead of 'weapon'.

Melee dps/support could work, especially if you incorporate the support in the form of magic -- elemental swords (slight damage buff, and since enemies don't have elemental vulnerabilities, maybe make the various elements have different effects, such as lightning-enchanted weapons having a chance to proc 'paralyze' or earth-enchanted ones having a chance to proc 'slow'...) for example. Or other buffing spells that don't encroach on healer territory.

RDM main stat, on the other hand... I don't know. I could see them go with either Int or Dex (due to rapiers being generally 'agile' weapons). And in the case of Dex, they /could/ share gearsets with NIN (though I can't quite see that work design-wise, even more so than with SAM/DRG ^^; ).

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

Pretty much the very first article where Yoshi-P mentions Samurai as a dps that everyone got the idea that Yoshi P claims it's only going to be a dps. In the interview, he states that in his mind, he pictures samurai as kinagashi wearing iaido users. And that that image lends itself to a DPS and not a tank (Which is right, a cloth wearing dextrous fighter fits FFXIV's definition of DPS more than a tank.) He specifically mentions them wearing kinagashi and using iaido.



着流し = Kinagashi. 居合 = Iaido.

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Ah, thanks for the source. Well it's an interesting take on the Samurai as opposed to what you might find in other media, although I still stand by the idea that they'll wear a variety of armour, including the usual heavy set.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

Ah, thanks for the source. Well it's an interesting take on the Samurai as opposed to what you might find in other media, although I still stand by the idea that they'll wear a variety of armour, including the usual heavy set.

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This is also why in a later english interview, when talking about samurai as a tank being called a Shogun. It's because Yoshi sees samurai as being the non-armored quick drawing variety, so an armored tanky type is something he'd call a Shogun instead. Still, if people are claiming "Yoshi said it's a dps" then it means it's that specific type of samurai, and while having some set that looks like samurai armor is plausible with Yoshi's idea of samurai, it's unlikely. They wouldn't be sharing an armor class with DRG, they'd likely be sharing the scouting set with Ninjas at that point.


If they are wearing their heavy armor, they should be a tank, hands down. There isn't any other popular FF archetype that people want that can fill an armored tank type. SE would be squandering their options on iconic and requested roles to fill easily into their standard of what a tank is in FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

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I agree there, even though they made Dark Knight a tank even though it fits into the DPS role quite nicely. Tanks don't have to be heavily armoured though, and vice versa. DPS can wear heavier armour, similar to the Dragoon. I would have preferred they made the Ninja an evasion tank, but oh well... too late for that now. It's entirely possible that they'd create two jobs under the Samurai name. Now that classes are no longer a thing with new jobs, they could be entirely separate unlike Scholar and Summoner, they could share levels too, if they want to dedicate development time into making a system for that. You could buff/nerf one, wouldn't messing with the other.

I think it would be a cool idea to mess around with, and if successful they could branch it onto other jobs, like having an Ninja tank, DPS Warrior, etc. Doubt they'd do that, and I do think the Samurai is going to end up a DPS in the end. Makes me wonder what they'd choose for tank though if that were to happen. Viking maybe?

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Originally Posted by TruebladeNuke

Tank and Healer roles are boring because they focus on something OTHER than just "Kill everything."

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No, tank and healer roles are boring (to some) because they lack mechanical complexity. That's not to say the roles themselves are not complex, but their complexity relies much more upon the encounter and the player-to-player team interactions, rather than the intricate internal complexity inherent to the classes themselves.

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Originally Posted by Intaki

No, tank and healer roles are boring (to some) because they lack mechanical complexity. That's not to say the roles themselves are not complex, but their complexity relies much more upon the encounter and the player-to-player team interactions, rather than the intricate internal complexity inherent to the classes themselves.

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/Begin Sarcasm

becaaaaauuuuusssssseeee its sooooooooo hard to follow a set rotation the keeps aaaaaalllll of my buffs up and deals maximum DPSSSS. OHHHHH NOOOOO i have to disengage what ever will i dooooooooooooooo!!!!!

- A guy who main'd MNK until 3.0.

/End Sarcasm

but on topic i would love to see another tank roll even though we just got DRK maybe something that attacks faster in a la MNK and NIN, but i might be a bit biased cause im a tank, but i love the speed of MNK/NIN. I think SAM could fit this bill, but then i might get shot by all the DPS who want a sword.

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Originally Posted by pouncing

becaaaaauuuuusssssseeee its sooooooooo hard to follow a set rotation the keeps aaaaaalllll of my buffs up and deals maximum DPSSSS. OHHHHH NOOOOO i have to disengage what ever will i dooooooooooooooo!!!!!

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The 2.x MNK rotation was equally complex and difficult to appropriately execute as the 2.x PLD rotation: yes or no?

Again, I get that what I said is going to rile up the prissy and entitled primadonnas among the tank and healer master race, but it's just a plain fact. DPS classes derive their challenge from mechanical complexity and the execution of their own abilities. Tank and healer classes derive difficulty from encounter and teamwork mechanics.

They are two completely different playstyles with a gap that can't be bridged by using a desired class as a lure.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

I agree there, even though they made Dark Knight a tank even though it fits into the DPS role quite nicely. Tanks don't have to be heavily armoured though, and vice versa. DPS can wear heavier armour, similar to the Dragoon. I would have preferred they made the Ninja an evasion tank, but oh well... too late for that now. It's entirely possible that they'd create two jobs under the Samurai name. Now that classes are no longer a thing with new jobs, they could be entirely separate unlike Scholar and Summoner, they could share levels too, if they want tI think it would be a cool idea to mess around with, and if successful they could branch it onto other jobs, like having an Ninja tank, DPS Warrior, etc. Doubt they'd do that, and I do think the Samurai is going to end up a DPS in the end. Makes me wonder what they'd choose for tank though if that were to happen. Viking maybe?

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You're right, tanks don't have to be heavily armored, but they will be. It's a design choice and a development and itemization one. Tanks will wear fending armor because if they don't, then they're either sharing a set with a DPS now, and that's bad to have a tank contest loot with DPS, or they have their own tier of armor and all that does is pollute the already polluted loot pools as well as requiring a lot more dev time to put in another tier of armor.

They've made it clear they aren't going to do branching systems anymore, and there's little point in including 2 different versions of samurai when there's plenty of other colorful FF jobs to include in the game. It's just not gonna happen.

And your last point is pretty much exactly why SAM should be a tank, because without that, there's no iconic AND requested job that fits the tanking archetype. People argue Samurai tank would be too much like DRK. But how is a Viking somehow different than warrior? Dual wield axes? Samurai could dual wield katana or tachi+wakizashi. How is a Rune Knight much different from a DRK either? Rune Knight is even more similar than a Samurai would be to DRK. There's simply nothing else that isn't some obscure FF job that could be a tank after Samurai and so SE would be a bit foolish to waste such a choice on another DPS.

This is of course if they're even interested in adding any other tanks after the current ones in the next expansion. We could easily simply just see 2 dps added and then queue times will get even worse than what they are now.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

There's simply nothing else that isn't some obscure FF job that could be a tank after Samurai and so SE would be a bit foolish to waste such a choice on another DPS.

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This is an argument you should have been making before they made DRK a tank. Now that there's already a two-handed sword user tank, I can pretty much guarantee that SAM will be a dps (if it ever gets made at all).

You're also neglecting the possibility that SE can simply create an entirely new class. They've already shown with Ravana that they're perfectly happy to not just take from the franchise mythos but to add to it as well.

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Originally Posted by Intaki

This is an argument you should have been making before they made DRK a tank. Now that there's already a two-handed sword user tank, I can pretty much guarantee that SAM will be a dps (if it ever gets made at all).

You're also neglecting the possibility that SE can simply create an entirely new class. They've already shown with Ravana that they're perfectly happy to not just take from the franchise mythos but to add to it as well.

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There's absolutely zero problems with two jobs using similar weapons. Black mages and White mages both use staves. Summonsers and Scholars both use books. A way a samurai would wield a sword is entirely different than the way a Dark Knight does and so that argument is entirely moot. Especially since a dual wielding Samurai is also a possibility that alone would make it distinctly differently visually than any other tank we already have.

I'm not neglecting the possibility of them coming up with new jobs unique to FFXIV, it's just highly unlikely. Not when they have plenty of options to pull from still. Them adding new jobs in expansions is almost primarily to sell said expansion. And thus by adding in popular, iconic final fantasy archetypes they capitalize on this. There's no reason for them not to. They had to with Astrologian because there simply wasn't anything to pull from. But with tanks and dps they don't have this problem. So sure, at some point we may see unique jobs. But that time won't be anytime soon.*

two jobs using the same type of weapon for the same role? will not happend, people need to stop ask samurai as tank, it will never happend it was said by yoshida.

another point, dual weapon is generally the mark of a dps jobs, what the point to wield two weapon outside inflict more damage?

other point, it's pointless to add more tank if they will have the same principle behind.
Samurai, can be a physical class oriented, no magic involved into this, since they use katana and no shield, it will end with mainly parry as focus for the defense. sadly, we already have one tank that do this... it's called the warrior.

finally, we need one more jobs with mail armor (like dragoon) samurai will be perfect pick for this.

anyway, we are beating a dead horse, since Yoshida, the director of the game himself have said that samurai will come as dps. people asking for be a tank, need to stop and pass to something else, we already have 3 different tank there, why not focus on this three instead to ask for a jobs, that probably you will never play seriously. tons of people have said they was happy to see drk as tank... do they play it now? most of them nope.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

two jobs using the same type of weapon for the same role? will not happend, people need to stop ask samurai as tank, it will never happend it was said by yoshida.

another point, dual weapon is generally the mark of a dps jobs, what the point to wield two weapon outside inflict more damage?

other point, it's pointless to add more tank if they will have the same principle behind.
Samurai, can be a physical class oriented, no magic involved into this, since they use katana and no shield, it will end with mainly parry as focus for the defense. sadly, we already have one tank that do this... it's called the warrior.

finally, we need one more jobs with mail armor (like dragoon) samurai will be perfect pick for this.

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There also hasn't been a new strength DPS added since 1.0.

Red Mage should be the tank, Samurai should be a DPS. =)

Meh, we probably get SAM as tank, Blue Mage as melee magical DPS, and RDM as magical buffs healer (but we already have this in AST...) Unless they would just skip introducing another healer. And make RDM as the counterpart of Bard and Machinist, a melee magical mage who buffs the party and increase their attack via enspells (but then we have blue mage which is also a melee magical DPS)....

Unless they make Blue Mage more of meele DPS with pets (which you must collect them all first - and then you can select which pet you want to summon, and it comes with three flavors, melee pet, magic pet, ranged attack pet). I mean they are already entertaining "minion battle", so the mechanic is there soon. Melee DPS with pets that you must acquire first before you can use them in battle sounds great, kinda the melee DPS version of summoner.

Does Blue Mage necessarily have to be a melee fighter?

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Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

Does Blue Mage necessarily have to be a melee fighter?

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Well they could start completely different with FF14, but not sure how to would handle spells collection. Although they could refer to how Final Fantasy Tactics Advance deal with the spell collection. Ah, now I have to turn on my DS and go back to replay this!!

Personally, count me in the camp that wants RDM tank, with rapier, and possibly evaision or shields (as in, magic barriers) as their main means of defense. At the very least, I'd prefer it be a melee DPS, possibly with elemental enhancements to it's melee strikes (again, with a rapier.)

Lol, what do you expect to be the answer. Most people are dps and for the most part people want to play the new jobs so dps it is. Hopefully the devs don't care at all about what something like this shows.

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

Well they could start completely different with FF14, but not sure how to would handle spells collection. Although they could refer to how Final Fantasy Tactics Advance deal with the spell collection. Ah, now I have to turn on my DS and go back to replay this!!

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Probably a spattering of some of the more iconic blue magic spells gained through job quests. Don't think actual collection like XI would work in XIV.

We need more Tanks/Healers and not DDs so I would give it a try if the Redmage becomes a Healer (or Tank whatever) and Samurai at least a Tank!

#justmy2cents

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Originally Posted by OPneedNerfs

SAM would likely be rolled as a tank (if they use heavy armor) but looking at the current tanks, things don't look enticing enough for SAM to be a tank so I'll say they might become a DPS with cloth armor instead. Maybe something like Kenshin or Vergil?

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I'll admit that the SAM storyline NPC having the split personality Kenshin had would make things very interesting. If they want to base it on iaido/battoujutsu I can think of no better place to start. SAM with Godspeed; please look forward to it.

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Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

Does Blue Mage necessarily have to be a melee fighter?

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Not necessarily. I'd personally want BLU to be a caster DPS to sit next to BLM and SMN. Unlike other jobs, all BLU needs to be recognizable is an array of monster skills. The spells I'd give it would count as blunt damage (creating a weird synergy between BLU and MNK) and of course recognizable spells from stuff like Marlboros and dragons and behemoths.

I could see RDM working as a frontline melee. Why give them a nice rapier if they stand in the backline casting?
Rather than with "spells" cast in the traditional manner. They should operate off combos instead.
A mix up of RDM + Elementalist from Tactics Advance sounds the way to go.
They would play like Dancer from 11

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

two jobs using the same type of weapon for the same role? will not happend, people need to stop ask samurai as tank, it will never happend it was said by yoshida.

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First of all, it has never been stated by Yoshi-P with a definitive yes or no about Samurai being only a dps if it's added. Not even close and if you have a source where he clearly said "Samurai will be a dps end of story" then please provide it but you can't because it doesn't exist. The only thing yoshi has confirmed about it is that he pictures samurai as cloth wearing iaido masters and that that idea lends itself towards a dps role and that it they made it a tank if the name Shogun would be more fitting for the job. That's it. That's all yoshida has said about the role of samurai if they even add it.

As for the weapon, it is absolutely not a problem for two tanks to have similar weapons. If you think a samurai's katanas and attacks would look anything like dark knight's then you're hugely mistaken and the fact they had DRK wield their swords like they do could very well be indicative of samurai tank in the future to give each one a more distinctive neutral stance. By your logic DRK shouldn't use greatswords because all they are are bigger swords (hell a ton of the greatsword models are just upscaled paladin weapons with slight tweaks.) A katana/tachi is not a giant greatsword. This argument against samurai because they would have semi-similar weapons is pathetically weak. It doesn't matter.

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another point, dual weapon is generally the mark of a dps jobs, what the point to wield two weapon outside inflict more damage?

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What's the purpose of holding a weapon with two hands? To do more damage. Your point is null. Common fencing styles used a second blade in the off hand meant solely for deflecting and parrying, for samurai it would be no different. Dual wielding does not relate to more damage. This is a nonsense argument.

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other point, it's pointless to add more tank if they will have the same principle behind.
Samurai, can be a physical class oriented, no magic involved into this, since they use katana and no shield, it will end with mainly parry as focus for the defense. sadly, we already have one tank that do this... it's called the warrior.

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Dark knight also has moves that emphasize parry. Dragoon has a move that increases parry. It doesn't matter. Samurai in Final Fantasy games have done all manner of things, some of these involve magic or summoning spirits with their swords. SE has plenty of options to create a unique theme for samurai and anyone who says otherwise simply lacks the imagination to see that.

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finally, we need one more jobs with mail armor (like dragoon) samurai will be perfect pick for this.

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Why? Why must we have more "mail wearing" classes? No other class contests loot for Monk or Ninja either. All 3 melee dps have their own type of gear, why should Dragoons have to share theirs then? Why not monks or ninjas? If they put samurai in their armor, they should be a tank. And if they don't put them in their armor, they should be a dps and share gear with monk or nin, not drg.

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anyway, we are beating a dead horse, since Yoshida, the director of the game himself have said that samurai will come as dps. people asking for be a tank, need to stop and pass to something else, we already have 3 different tank there, why not focus on this three instead to ask for a jobs, that probably you will never play seriously. tons of people have said they was happy to see drk as tank... do they play it now? most of them nope.

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Sure it's a dead horse. But again you're still wrong and Yoshida has said no such definitive thing and even then he isn't the end all he all. Samurai was already in the running for a tank before they decided to go with DRK instead and that tank SAM could have just been put on a backburner for later.

We have 3 tanks, as opposed to 7 dps jobs. There's plenty of other options for more dps that are certainly coming and only a few options for potential tanks. Samurai is the best choice. And plenty of people picked up tanking and found they liked it because DRK was made a tank. The census data shows there has been an increase in tanks and that means it worked, putting a wanted job as a tank did indeed sway people to play tanks and SE should highly consider doing that again.

Samurai : evasion tank / could share armor with mnk

His tank buff should be something like: Increase chance of evasion 20% - reduce dmg taken 30% and increase agro.
And the key skills: evade next atack (like 10s cd) and "Ultimate evasion" increase evasion 50% for 10 sec with something like 60 sec CD. :3

Red Mage: Melee with some insta fire :3

whe need another tank, 3 tanks now are umbalance in therms of MT and OT, so whe need another good OT and samurai can dealt the job like a parry damage support and kick the warrior of the untouchable OT throne.

and for the ppl who say whe dont have any dps whith swords, ninjas use 2 ninjatos, are a little smalls swords, ravana and law weapons are very long swords for ninja too.

i don't care if make samurai like a dps but for me is more like a tank class, they need change the defense stads to make more unique the tanks jobs thats for sure.

for red mage, well whe need a new caster only have 2 now, a caster suppor can be nice to have a 3º support class and caster in same time, or meaby healer but i see the job more offensive really.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

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i love people that want to believe in the dream anyway....

when yoshida talk about the role of a jobs, is rarely for change later.... more important, they are not fast at give information of this type. at the first SAM was developped as tank, but with heavensward, they have feel it was better to give the dark knight this role, more to bring dark knight over the samurai. 2 reason at that:
- 1) the lore was easier to explain with this
- 2) they did feel that 2 japanese theme jobs that close was a bad idea (kinda funny, since a large part of the community is not japanese and they only have 2 jobs that are heavily tie to the japanese theme)

then like said, yoshida did explain that for now samurai will not come and if he do come he feel the jobs is better as dps (what is normal, since a samurai is not know for endure damage but more for kill the enemy)

2 weapon is often link to damage dealer, we are not talking about irl here, but game, find me a tank that dual wield sword? they are quite rare exept game that try to break the stereotype. you can say it's more for parry and such, but the advantage to have 2 weapon, is to allows to attack more not defend more. (i doubt samurai will end with 2 sword since is more a ronin that do this.)

Samurai in all FF, exept for the 11 where the dev team did try to do something dumb.... is a dps, they do have some move based on fast counter, but since it's tie to solo game, it's hard to use it as reference.
indeed the jobs will emphazie on parry, since he don't have a shield... other point, no magic into this it's often called technic not magic, samurai is always shown in every final fantasy game as a warrior with a katana.... no magic into this.

finally, about the repartition of the jobs, you do have 3 tank, 3 healer for 3 melee jobs, 4 ranged jobs (magic and caster) however, in dungeon, you have 1 tank, 1 healer and 2 dps. what the point to add another tank? especially since each tank fill a type of tanking.

- paladin = the defensive one, they are mainly the one that can absorb the most damage dealed to them
- warrior = the offensive one, the one that can deal the most damage of the three type of tank all of him attack are the physical type.
- dark knight = the magic one, the one that will steal hp, mp, debuff the enemy and such, more important a lot of him capacity are based on the mana and the gestion of this.

what will be a samurai? please enlight me master.

you simply want to have a samurai tank, ok, but don't try to say you have valid point for make mandatory.

if we take irl standpoint, samurai is a killer, nothing more nothing less, all him technique, all him training is for only one goal, kill the enemy that threaten them life or the life of them master. them life don't belong to them, actually they are often don't fearing death and are close of a controlled berserker. they are not knight, they are not paladin or any some sort of templar.... they are warrior! make it a jobs tank is like trying to make an european idea fit into a concept of warrior that belong to japan.

ps: one more time, add a new type of tank, will not make the game have more tank... people will probably not play samurai tank as main even if they level up it... check how many people have stay on the dark knight after leveling it (i'm talking of the dps player not the tank one)

pss: actually they have reach a balance with the three tank. add another one now is risky move since they need to make it different than the other. in wow, they had 4 tank nothing more nothing less, 1 physical (warrior), 1 buffing/magic (paladin), 1 debuffing/magic (death knight), 1 polymorph (druide and some can argue that it quite close of the warrior in the use)
add another tank, yes, if it can bring something different not only a flavor based on the lore around it, but about him mechanic.

What if Samurai (if they add it) turns out to be a Physical Magic job?

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

Why? Why must we have more "mail wearing" classes? No other class contests loot for Monk or Ninja either. All 3 melee dps have their own type of gear, why should Dragoons have to share theirs then? Why not monks or ninjas? If they put samurai in their armor, they should be a tank. And if they don't put them in their armor, they should be a dps and share gear with monk or nin, not drg.

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If the SAM is made a dps with the image of the more heavy-armour type of samurai in mind, then I see them sharing gearset with Dragoon. If they're made with the light-armour iaido type of samurai in mind, however, they seem more likely to share gearsets with Monk.

And I don't agree with the "why should melee dps have to share gearsets?" argument. Bard also had their own gearset until Machinist came along. Casters share gearsets. Healers share gearsets (and usually share design with casters, the two being palette swaps with each other). Tanks share gearsets. Why should melee DPS have their own unique gearsets?
At the moment, it's because there are no other jobs that fit the criteria. Monk and Ninja could share gearsets (and did, for gearsets prior to Ninja introduction), but they don't because Ninja uses Dex and Monk uses Str. Monk and Dragoon could share gearsets since they both use Str, but they don't because Dragoon gear has more physical defense. So the only reason they don't share gearsets is because there's no other class/job that fits that "equipment niche". As new jobs are added that do, more and more of them will find themselves sharing gearsets with at least one other class.

(And yes, I totally over-used my quota of the word "gearset" in this post.)

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

actually they have reach a balance with the three tank. add another one now is risky move since they need to make it different than the other. in wow, they had 4 tank nothing more nothing less, 1 physical (warrior), 1 buffing/magic (paladin), 1 debuffing/magic (death knight), 1 polymorph (druide and some can argue that it quite close of the warrior in the use)

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Lets not add any job then? Because like you said we have reached a balance with all of the dps jobs as well and adding another one is a risky move since they need to make it different than the other.

Also you are forgetting they added a monk tank which plays nothing like the others and there's a new tank coming out in the next expansion. So yeah, WoW is still coming out with tanks so you can't say "nothing more nothing less" when to this very day they are continuing to be made.

I've passed the point where I don't care whether Samurai is a Tank or a DPS, but I'd like to point out that when people say "Share armour with Dragoon" they're typically talking about lower levels, where there are four basic armour types. Tank Armour, DPS Armour, Caster/Healer Armour, and Dragoon/Lancer Armour. Not the Top level Combat gear where the Tanks all share, the Casters both share, the healers all share, the Ranged DPS both share, and the Melee DPS all get their own.

Course, we could have Samurai be a tank, and bring in Sword Mage to share armour with the Dragoon at those levels. Though we're getting to the point where I am uncertain what sort of sword we could give them, and with everyone wanting Red Mage to be casting Enspells on themselves, they're basically fusing the two Jobs anyways.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

then like said, yoshida did explain that for now samurai will not come and if he do come he feel the jobs is better as dps (what is normal, since a samurai is not know for endure damage but more for kill the enemy)

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I love seeing this weak argument. Samurai weren't known for enduring damage? Historically? They certainly were or they wouldn't have worn the armor they did. Within FF games? They DEFINITELY do, sporting some of the higher defensive and vitality stats. In some games, the Knight(Paladin) did more damage than them. Any argument like this gets thrown out the window because these exact things were said about Dark Knight and look where we are now.

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2 weapon is often link to damage dealer, we are not talking about irl here, but game, find me a tank that dual wield sword? they are quite rare exept game that try to break the stereotype. you can say it's more for parry and such, but the advantage to have 2 weapon, is to allows to attack more not defend more. (i doubt samurai will end with 2 sword since is more a ronin that do this.)

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TERA online had a dual sword wielding tank. It's possible. Any comment about dual wielding to do more damage is also pointless. FFXIV doesn't have a true dual wielding system, it's just 1 weapon that has the appearance of 2. It has absolutely nothing to do with "More weapons equal moar damage!" It's a pathetic argument and doesn't matter, and should be dismissed as such.

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Samurai in all FF, exept for the 11 where the dev team did try to do something dumb.... is a dps, they do have some move based on fast counter, but since it's tie to solo game, it's hard to use it as reference.
indeed the jobs will emphazie on parry, since he don't have a shield... other point, no magic into this it's often called technic not magic, samurai is always shown in every final fantasy game as a warrior with a katana.... no magic into this.

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Pointless argument. These arguments were made for Dark Knight being only a dps, it's a tank now, deal with it. Samurai in most past FF games could equip heavy armor and even shields. These are things that lend merit towards them being tanks. Tactics Samurai summoned spirits from their sword (Magic). You need to do your homework and stop spouting nonsense.

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finally, about the repartition of the jobs, you do have 3 tank, 3 healer for 3 melee jobs, 4 ranged jobs (magic and caster) however, in dungeon, you have 1 tank, 1 healer and 2 dps. what the point to add another tank? especially since each tank fill a type of tanking.

- paladin = the defensive one, they are mainly the one that can absorb the most damage dealed to them
- warrior = the offensive one, the one that can deal the most damage of the three type of tank all of him attack are the physical type.
- dark knight = the magic one, the one that will steal hp, mp, debuff the enemy and such, more important a lot of him capacity are based on the mana and the gestion of this.

what will be a samurai? please enlight me master.

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What's the point to add another DPS then? They all just do damage. This argument can be made for DPS just as much as it can be made for Tanks. It's pointless, what does a DPS samurai bring that a MNK or DRG or NIN doesn't? Nothing. Tanks at least in 8man content do have at least 2 roles, Main Tank, and Off Tank, and currently Warrior is uncontested for that slot, making it damn near a required member of the team. Samurai tank could easily contest this slot and if you don't think so, then you're deliberately narrowing your view.

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you simply want to have a samurai tank, ok, but don't try to say you have valid point for make mandatory.

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You simply want a samurai dps, ok, but you have yet to make a valid point against samurai tanks.

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if we take irl standpoint, samurai is a killer, nothing more nothing less, all him technique, all him training is for only one goal, kill the enemy that threaten them life or the life of them master. them life don't belong to them, actually they are often don't fearing death and are close of a controlled berserker. they are not knight, they are not paladin or any some sort of templar.... they are warrior! make it a jobs tank is like trying to make an european idea fit into a concept of warrior that belong to japan.

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Oh this sounds familiar, I remember this. You just copied and past this from before with this argument. IRL samurai really don't matter too much, this is a FF game. A samurai wasn't any more of a killer irl than a knight, or a viking barbarian (warrior). Ironically you relate samurai to berserkers, yet our Berserker (Warrior) is a tank. So yeah, shooting yourself in the foot here.

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ps: one more time, add a new type of tank, will not make the game have more tank... people will probably not play samurai tank as main even if they level up it... check how many people have stay on the dark knight after leveling it (i'm talking of the dps player not the tank one)

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Every dps player I know who has tried DRK and leveled it, has now mained it and said things like "I didn't think I'd like tanking, but this job is really fun!". And while that's anecdotal evidence it still shows that not all players who tried DRK who haven't tanked before switched back.

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pss: actually they have reach a balance with the three tank. add another one now is risky move since they need to make it different than the other. in wow, they had 4 tank nothing more nothing less, 1 physical (warrior), 1 buffing/magic (paladin), 1 debuffing/magic (death knight), 1 polymorph (druide and some can argue that it quite close of the warrior in the use)
add another tank, yes, if it can bring something different not only a flavor based on the lore around it, but about him mechanic.

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Every single new job WoW has added has been able to tank, including the new one for the next expansion. So in essence, they've released a new tank with every expansion that added a new job. Your argument is pointless anyways because WoW is not FFXIV.

And I'm done responding to you because I remember you from past threads and all you're interested in is weak arguments for DPS samurai and a quite inaccurate view of who and what samurai actually were.

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Originally Posted by Noxifer

And I don't agree with the "why should melee dps have to share gearsets?" argument. Bard also had their own gearset until Machinist came along. Casters share gearsets. Healers share gearsets (and usually share design with casters, the two being palette swaps with each other). Tanks share gearsets. Why should melee DPS have their own unique gearsets?

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There's nothing wrong with DPS sharing gearsets. I only commented on why specifically must DRG share their gearset as the person mentioned "We need more mail wearing dps". And I simply asked...why? Why specifically DRG? Why not MNK? or Nin? If Samurai get added as a dps, they will most certainly be sharing a dps gearset with some existing job.

Gearset sharing does become a problem when you mix roles though. Such as having a dps wearing heavy fending armor where now they compete against tanks (Who already have to compete against each other) for gear.

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Originally Posted by ChazNatlo

I've passed the point where I don't care whether Samurai is a Tank or a DPS, but I'd like to point out that when people say "Share armour with Dragoon" they're typically talking about lower levels, where there are four basic armour types. Tank Armour, DPS Armour, Caster/Healer Armour, and Dragoon/Lancer Armour. Not the Top level Combat gear where the Tanks all share, the Casters both share, the healers all share, the Ranged DPS both share, and the Melee DPS all get their own.

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The lower level armors don't really matter though. Half the time DRG is wearing the same "Disciple of War" armor everyone else is. The ones that are heavier armor for DRG are few and far between. And anything post 50 is all specific to each jobs, there is none of that stuff. This will be a future job, and likely start at a high level again, possible even starting at level 50 if the level cap gets raised in the next expansion. Meaning a job being able to wear that gear is pointless cause it could start at a level beyond where that gear exists.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

This will be a future job, and likely start at a high level again, possible even starting at level 50 if the level cap gets raised in the next expansion. Meaning a job being able to wear that gear is pointless cause it could start at a level beyond where that gear exists.

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Not arguing, just clarifying.

To speak to the quote, I'm feeling a little lazy so no quote or anything, but I had heard that supposedly the next expansion will be able to be accessed at a lower level than Heavensward. We MIGHT get another 30 and up (set of) Job(s). Which is about the point where Dragoon starts to near exclusively wear Light plate and Scale mail, outside green dungeon drops.

That said, I wouldn't mind a Samurai Tank. Contrary to your "favourite" argument partner so far, I use Samurai as a Tank. Bladegrasp is a hell of a move. I just wouldn't be too bent out of shape if it were a DPS. I'd be a little weirded out if they made it a healer.

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Originally Posted by ChazNatlo

Not arguing, just clarifying.

To speak to the quote, I'm feeling a little lazy so no quote or anything, but I had heard that supposedly the next expansion will be able to be accessed at a lower level than Heavensward. We MIGHT get another 30 and up (set of) Job(s). Which is about the point where Dragoon starts to near exclusively wear Light plate and Scale mail, outside green dungeon drops.

That said, I wouldn't mind a Samurai Tank. Contrary to your "favourite" argument partner so far, I use Samurai as a Tank. Bladegrasp is a hell of a move. I just wouldn't be too bent out of shape if it were a DPS. I'd be a little weirded out if they made it a healer.

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Hm, I've not seen any mention of the next expansion being accessed lower, only that the next expansion will not require one to have done all the Heavensward content. I'd play samurai regardless of it's role, I just feel SAM is a clear cut choice for another tank as it easily still fits into the mold of what FFXIV depicts a tank as. There are tons of other options for DPS roles, but very few choices for tank roles and most of them are obscure and not requested at all.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

There are tons of other options for DPS roles, but very few choices for tank roles and most of them are obscure and not requested at all.

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Or the attempts to basically make anything a Tank. Red mage? Tank. Blue Mage? Tank. Geomancer? Tank. Sword Mage? Tank. Dancer? Tank. Gunner? Tank.

I mean, I can see all of those being Tanks, though maybe there are better Roles for them. And as You say, better choices for Tank. Like Samurai.