Emotes in the cash shop..

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Originally Posted by papichulo123

yeah cash shop is good. they need more cash for the european data center stop complaining

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They already have the funds and planning for this if they've announced that it is being worked on. This isn't a kickstarter.

I say what several other people have said before. Newer/Returning players you didn't pay for a subscription when these events were going on, thus didn't truely pay for them. If you chose not to do them, well that was your choice. No other game gives you old event/holiday items if you didn't particpate or subscribe during that time unless they use identical ones every year which is boring.

Right now all items are merely vanity, and I am glad they are adding them to the cash shop. Why you ask? Simply because before the cash shop came, they were often recycling many of the event items from one year to the next year. We were starting to see the same items the following year with maybe a slight color palete changed Now with them pushed to the cash shop after the event it over, more totally new vanity items/emotes/furniture are being created every year more frequently instead.

Its an incentive to stay subbed, you get the stuff for free, some more exclusive stuff that says you've been around a while (or chose to spend cash), and encourages SE to continue to create new stuff, since they can monetize it afterwards.

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Originally Posted by Lyaha

Employees of Square Enix, you people should be ashamed of yourselves, selling more and more stuff in your cash shop, stuff that could have been content for players to earn through gameplay.

Not sure what you people are thinking, but have some respect for the people paying for your game on a monthly basis AND for your expansion(s). A cash shop does not belong here, not in a sub based game.

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was available last year to subscribing members for free.

Judging by OP's forum join date, 2013, i would say that they were unsubbed during 2014's summer event, making them the exact target the cash shop is gunning for.

So OP is attempting to use the "im a consistent subscriber" argument, when really they are the exact opposite. Original post is invalid.

In an age of MMOs where everyone is looking for the F2P model and Subscription models are failing left and right.. it becomes harder to justify that monthly fee when you're tossing items and the like into cash shops which would under most circumstances have been included in that monthly fee back in the day.

The way these guys are going you can't even use the 'all inclusive' argument as benefit of subscription models anymore.


As for making them exclusive?

Sure sure... except they're not exclusive anymore if all you have to do is buy it. Why stay subbed for it if you've got the cash to spend in the shop since you know they're going to add it to the cash shop eventually anyway. That excuse doesnt make any sense. Whats next? hairstyles? exp potions? stat potions? armor skins? oh wait...

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Originally Posted by Lyaha

Reward players..? Are you high?

"Let's reward players by having them give us more money for content that could be used to.. well.. provide gameplay!" Great logic there.

As for the argument 'other companies did it as well!' umm.. screw Blizzard, I know full well they're at fault for this entire cash shop in sub based games problem, idiot WoW players accepted being screwed over by purchasing 20 euro mounts.

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Your post is a troll, you don't even read the posts correctly. Rewarded player are not the ones that pay to get items via the shop, but the ones who get them for free during the events. Screw Blizzard ? they are not alone, far from that. And SE do not do prices as expensive as they do. You don't have any arguments to explain but your anger.

You provide game play with "yukata" ? tell me what is the definition of gameplay pls. Buy a dictionary. This stuff is pure cosmetic and don't add any gameplay, maybe, at most some more stuff to do RP, that's all.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

And the seasonal events are limited time content with exclusive items.

The items were originally only available by participating in the events. When the season came around again, SE sold some of the old items for gil. Players who had done the event and were told that the items were exclusive to the event pointed out the mistake to SE. So as a compromise, SE is offering them for real money.

Nothing wrong with it at all.

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In XI and the first year of ARR you could get old event rewards during the event. That's all people are asking for. It's really not a huge deal. You're asking to feel like a special snowflake based off of an optional event that provides lvl 1 glamour gear and in no way takes much effort or activity on your part.

Again, the "you can't have it because I have it" crowd is childish. People aren't asking to be able to buy relic glamours or something, this isn't something you worked and slaved at getting...

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Originally Posted by ckc22

In XI and the first year of ARR you could get old event rewards during the event. That's all people are asking for. It's really not a huge deal. You're asking to feel like a special snowflake based off of an optional event that provides lvl 1 glamour gear and in no way takes much effort or activity on your part.

Again, the "you can't have it because I have it" crowd is childish. People aren't asking to be able to buy relic glamours or something, this isn't something you worked and slaved at getting...

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SE can make money from these items without hurting ANYONE.

Why shouldn't they?

Once again, more money for SE = GOOD.
More money for SE without hurting anyone = GREAT.

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Originally Posted by Lyaha

Reward players..? Are you high?

"Let's reward players by having them give us more money for content that could be used to.. well.. provide gameplay!" Great logic there.

As for the argument 'other companies did it as well!' umm.. screw Blizzard, I know full well they're at fault for this entire cash shop in sub based games problem, idiot WoW players accepted being screwed over by purchasing 20 euro mounts.

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You think of it completely wrong.

It is "Let's reward the players that actually play then by giving them something special".

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Originally Posted by sirDarts

SE can make money from these items without hurting ANYONE.

Why shouldn't they?

Once again, more money for SE = GOOD.
More money for SE without hurting anyone = GREAT.

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Why shouldn't they? This is exactly what WoW players asked when Blizzard put Sparkle Ponies in the cash shop. Fast forward to Warlords of Draenor where WoW lost half its subscribers - OVER FIVE MILLION PLAYERS GONE - in the first eight months of this cheap, shallow expansion. The devs reacted by shrugging their shoulders and saying they'd be offering more "premium services" to offset the sub loss. Not a word was spoken about improving the game or fixing problems with that failed expansion. Yay for adding WoW tokens and more mounts to the cash shop. They didn't care because they didn't need to.

It didn't matter that a million players a month disliked their game so much that they bailed on it when it was fresh out of the box. If they could make up that revenue the game can suck and they can keep making money. And this is why true MMORPG's have declined. Not because "the players have changed" or "gamers are different" . . . MILLIONS of gamers are hungry to play a great MMO - the ten million people who initially flocked to WoD with high expectations proves that. Sub MMO's have declined because they are no longer designed with passion and fun and a love for the game. They are designed around the fact that gamers can't keep their credit cards in their wallets.

I'm just glad I'm not gullible enough to purchase stuff like this so my wallet is still safe and fat >.> /$/\$\/$/

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Originally Posted by Lyaha

Reward players..? Are you high?

"Let's reward players by having them give us more money for content that could be used to.. well.. provide gameplay!" Great logic there.

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Maybe you can read it this way better:

"You have participated in the event? Fine, here are your event items as a rewards. And as a bonus you can buy the gears from the calamity NPC for some gil later, if you lose your rewards. Also, here are some achievements for you."

"You haven't participated in the event? Bad for you."

Why does it matter. Would you rather not have them ever available at all?

Event emotes and gear are there to give the players that have been there the longest a certain extra something for just being there and supporting the game. If you weren't there to get those items and gear then they lost a potential subscription fee from you. So, in order to stave the masses and keep longtime and new players happy, they have elected to put some of those seasonal items in shop to make them attainable by everyone. If you wanted to pay 2 or 3 dollars to get one of these items ( seriously we are arguing over 2-3 dollars) then that is your choice. All of these items are purely cosmetic in nature, and most of them have been attainable in game at one point or another.

Point is, if you were not there for a seasonal event and expect them to put them on loop every year then it would be not fun for those players that are long term. That is not fair to those who have paid the most into this game.

/Laughing and fiddling a wad of bills while walking to the bank

That's an emote i'd pay for. Loose money makes an opportunist. There's always people buying this stuff and S-E shop is nothing compared to actual "cash shops" out there.

Don't buy it.

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Originally Posted by Bodicca

Why shouldn't they? This is exactly what WoW players asked when Blizzard put Sparkle Ponies in the cash shop. Fast forward to Warlords of Draenor where WoW lost half its subscribers - OVER FIVE MILLION PLAYERS GONE

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That's some crazy ass conjecture. The loss of subs had NOTHING to do with a few mounts being in the cash shop. Don't project your negative feelings of a cash shop so hard. Makes you lose any and all credibility as a person.

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Originally Posted by Ilitsa

That's some crazy ass conjecture. The loss of subs had NOTHING to do with a few mounts being in the cash shop. Don't project your negative feelings of a cash shop so hard. Makes you lose any and all credibility as a person.

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I think you missed the point Bodicca was trying to make.

It wasn't about the cash shop making people leave, it was about people leaving because WoD sucked, and Blizzard deciding to just make the cash shop more profitable to make up for lost subs rather than fixing the game.

If it succeeds in regaining the lost profits with an enhanced cash shop, it'll be yet another nice example of how people who spend their money very loosely can indeed lower the quality of a product if the company running things strongly values profit over passion. Because Blizzard will be fine financially and won't be pressured to improve the game and fix their mistakes.

In short, the cash shop seemed harmless to their players at first, then eventually spiraled out of control to the point where Blizzard now feels comfortable softening the blow of their lost subs (people leaving the game out of disappointment) by exploiting the loose spending habits of those remaining players who spend loosely, and doesn't feel pressure to improve things about the game, because they don't have to to remain profitable.

So here's a question for the malcontents: How would YOU fix this concern?

Make previous event items available for purchase in game! Ok, now a few years/events from now, how will you handle item bloat on event vendors?

By then, just remove some of the oldest ones
Well what about that guy who just started this current year and wasn't around? Or the girl who just happened to miss the second year and really wants those items?

Really though, how would YOU fix it?

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

So here's a question for the malcontents: How would YOU fix this concern?

Make previous event items available for purchase in game! Ok, now a few years/events from now, how will you handle item bloat on event vendors?

By then, just remove some of the oldest ones
Well what about that guy who just started this current year and wasn't around? Or the girl who just happened to miss the second year and really wants those items?

Really though, how would YOU fix it?

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Clearly you've never been to the house of splendors in Mor Dhona, or the calamity salvager. Which deals with this issue pretty well with sub menus. I'd take not being able to get them year round if it meant being able to get holiday themed items in the holiday season.

So what I'm getting from the atmosphere in this thread is that the people who earned their Bomb Dance are pissed off because the rest of us, who have NOT earned it, get to buy it without going through the trouble of working for one.

Well, technically, I guess I could say I am working for one. I have to work to get that two dollars.

While one can always image how things might get bad in the future, I don't think such apocalyptic visions have much real relevance.

So, explain to me how being able to buy old emotes and outfits is hurting the game now. Because I don't see it.

I hope they put the /fistbump in the shop one day, because all my friends who would play this game are already playing it and I'm not about to make a fake account for it. ;)

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Originally Posted by Naunet

They already had a solution, and it was quite brilliant: New event brings new stuff, and the old stuff stays on the vendor, too! Wow, everyone can have their cake and eat it, too! (Except the twelve year olds, which we've already established aren't really to be listened to.)

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a solution that they only used, iirc, for the 1.0>2.0 transition to make the 1.0 holiday items available to 2.0 players. At the time it looked an awful lot like they were going to go with the "If you weren't here it sucks to be you" model of seasonal events going forward.

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Originally Posted by Kikoten

So what I'm getting from the atmosphere in this thread is that the people who earned their Bomb Dance are pissed off because the rest of us, who have NOT earned it, get to buy it without going through the trouble of working for one.

Well, technically, I guess I could say I am working for one. I have to work to get that two dollars.

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Nope, that's not it at all.

No one is pissed off that you can buy the bomb dance and other things in the cash shop. In fact, people are supporting it.

I don't think that the issue for those that have it already is that we feel others should not be able to get it or have to "work" for it.

What I feel the issue is, is that many people feel they are entitled to the rewards for limited timed events from the past because they are paying a subscription now, while those that got it for "free" back when the event happened were actually paying around $15 for that month with their subs to be able to have access to the game and therefore be able to participate in the event. Those players already paid with real money to have access to get those items, so why should those didn't pay then now get it without paying ?
$15 is a lot more than $2, so as far as equitability in money spent to acquire the /bombdance emote, is it really equal to be able to get it at no cost now versus those that were paying customers in the past that got it?

Now dont get me wrong, I really dont think this is all that big a deal and if SE were to decide to make previous seasonal rewards available ingame without having to use the cash shop, I would simply shrug and be like "whatever". However, one needs to look at all angles, even those of the opposition, and all the factors when making informed decisions.

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Originally Posted by Mandze

I hope they put the /fistbump in the shop one day, because all my friends who would play this game are already playing it and I'm not about to make a fake account for it. ;)

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Post codes on the New Player Help forum. I had 30 Gold feathers in total. All from posting codes on the forum, didn't spend a dime.
And the people who used the codes would've payed for the gametime either way.
Altho I had posted from quite some time ago, and there's luck involved that people actually use it.

Makes you wonder how many people complaining were white knighting the cash shop on its release...

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Originally Posted by NolLacnala

Makes you wonder how many people complaining were white knighting the cash shop on its release...

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I suspect that number is low.

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Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

What I feel the issue is, is that many people feel they are entitled to the rewards for limited timed events from the past because they are paying a subscription now, while those that got it for "free" back when the event happened were actually paying around $15 for that month with their subs to be able to have access to the game and therefore be able to participate in the event. Those players already paid with real money to have access to get those items, so why should those didn't pay then now get it without paying ?

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Wait, I must have missed a memo. Are the people that play now NOT paying $15 a month, yet have to pay even MORE than that to gain access to things older players got for free at the time?

eh i still like the fact this is put in the cash shop

want to know why?
because if it is in the cases hop then for people who have end it its not a dud reward this year, it is annoying when we did an event 2 years in a row and one of them was just giving the previous years items as a reward for a quest which if you already had one in your inventory you had to discard it or retainer it to finish, which makes it a inventory filler and a waste of space, doing this means they can put old things on the cash shop if people want them while focusing on new things to give us for the events :3

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Originally Posted by Moonleg

Wait, I must have missed a memo. Are the people that play now NOT paying $15 a month, yet have to pay even MORE than that to gain access to things older players got for free at the time?

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I believe the argument being made is that those players were subbed and playing at the time and the new person wasn't.

^^^
Yep.
Sub for the month back when the event originally occurred plus sub now, approx. $30.
Sub now plus buying emote in the cash shop, approx. $17.

The seasonal rewards from the past were not free, we payed our sub fees to be able to get access to them.

Again, if they are taken from the cash shop and just put in-game, not that big a deal to me.

I am just providing what the logical counterpoint is for those that were paying customers back then and already have the rewards.

I think it's sad people are freaking out over this, really. :l How about we do what WoW does instead and we can get the same crappy event items that you can't even transmog every year?

The items are super cheap for those who have missed the event, and it gives players the chance to get items they've missed. It's really not a big deal, honestly. *facepalm* It's just glamour stuff anyhow.

And why are people making a bigger deal about it because it was free last year? What, would you have preferred to have had to pay for it last year? Really?

I don't care about the price, Miya. 2 dollars? 20 dollars?

It's content that COULD have been in the game right now; an event with last year's quests AND this year's (hopefully) new quests. How would that be a bad thing for the players to have MORE stuff to do?

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Originally Posted by Moonleg

I don't care about the price, Miya. 2 dollars? 20 dollars?

It's content that COULD have been in the game right now; an event with last year's quests AND this year's (hopefully) new quests. How would that be a bad thing for the players to have MORE stuff to do?

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Because having to bring back old stuff would lower the amount of content in new stuff.
Also they might find out that it's enough to just do the old ones over and over again.
= Bad for the community.

I wouldn't care if they made it buyable from the calamity salvager or something like that, but it's a waste seeing that they can EASILY make money from it while not hurting anyone.

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Originally Posted by Moonleg

I don't care about the price, Miya. 2 dollars? 20 dollars?

It's content that COULD have been in the game right now; an event with last year's quests AND this year's (hopefully) new quests. How would that be a bad thing for the players to have MORE stuff to do?

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So the devs put the effort in to give you a new storyline every year and you'd like them also to somehow shoehorn in the old quests and fates as well?

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Originally Posted by Bodicca

This is exactly what WoW players asked when Blizzard put Sparkle Ponies in the cash shop. Fast forward to Warlords of Draenor where WoW lost half its subscribers - OVER FIVE MILLION PLAYERS GONE - in the first eight months of this cheap, shallow expansion. The devs reacted by shrugging their shoulders and saying they'd be offering more "premium services" to offset the sub loss. Not a word was spoken about improving the game or fixing problems with that failed expansion. Yay for adding WoW tokens and more mounts to the cash shop. They didn't care because they didn't need to.

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Right, so WoW lost subscribers because WoD sucked. Not because of the cash shop. Blizzard actually responded by announcing a new expansion, very quickly on the heels of WoD I might add, that sounds like they're trying to correct the problems. So contrary to your theory, they're actually trying to do the correct thing to resolve the problem (maybe - the new trailer looks old and busted). Either way, the cash shop has nothing to do with their sub loss. And in it's current form it won't have one here either.

16 pages over a vanity feature.

Game must be in excellent condition, if this topic is the raging firestorm of the forums right now.

I was really bummed out that I couldn't participate in last year's event, but ohey! I can buy the cute Yukatas and the bomb dance emote now!

I don't understand the people in this thread who already have the content. You have the content, you don't need to buy them again. Sorry that your emotes and yukatas doesn't make your account any more of a special snowflake than the next player. At least SE didn't put the earlier Yukatas for sale.

I, for one, am quite happy purchasing from the Cash Shop. I see shinies, I buy. You don't do what I do? Who cares? Anything to help SE to make a European Data Center, after all.

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Originally Posted by Ilitsa

That's some crazy ass conjecture. The loss of subs had NOTHING to do with a few mounts being in the cash shop. Don't project your negative feelings of a cash shop so hard. Makes you lose any and all credibility as a person.

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No one said the loss of subs had to do with mounts in the cash shop.

The loss of subs had everything to do with the expansion being crap. Pure and simple. And it was specifically designed to be crap. Cut content, cut development, cut features, bare bones expansion is exactly what WoD is. They also offer unique mounts in the cash shop, not in game. Why put something cool in the game when you can charge extra for it? Blizzard developers have pretty much said they expected subs to drop, and they don't care. They don't care because they can develop their game on the cheap, hype the next xpac, and make their profits by adding more "premium services." Their own words.

The cash shop in any game is a cash grab. That's it. And while no one should begrudge a company for wanting to make a profit, don't try to pass this off as money that's going to improve the game by adding additional cool features or mounts or items or events. It's just . . . profit. Otherwise that cool emote or mount or whatever would be integrated into the game and available via gameplay. And there's nothing wrong with repeating events and offering new and old rewards.

Except it's profitable to just throw this stuff up on the cash shop.

Anytime you have anything in the cash shop that can't be obtained in game it's cutting content in some way. Cash shops in sub MMO's were never a good thing for the players. And never will be. Never, ever, ever.

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Originally Posted by Moonleg

I don't care about the price, Miya. 2 dollars? 20 dollars?

It's content that COULD have been in the game right now; an event with last year's quests AND this year's (hopefully) new quests. How would that be a bad thing for the players to have MORE stuff to do?

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^This guy gets it.

Why make content when you can make more money by not doing so?

Because buying a bomb dance for $2 is pay to win. Nobody's complaining about the Recruit-a-Friend emotes.